Splinedrive coupler - Toolgrinding and Slotting
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
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Now I understand the comment you left on my channel. Uncanny how multiple creators drift towards similar subject matter all at the same time. Good video. I always enjoy your work.
I also wish, just one time, you would close a video with.... 'I'll be back".
This old basement got me! haha
yeah we got that. Excellent as always, new Sub
Just wanted to say, I finally got my very first mill set up and running, and now I'm going back through all your videos learning tips and tricks I can actually use now. Thanks for making these videos, they're very helpful!
Good to hear, and thanks for watching :)
Great shooting, editing, narration and most importantly, problem solving thought processes and machining - so many talents so generously shared - thank you
This is my favourite kind of video; one that presents a problem and proceeds to show every step of solving that problem.
It really lets us as an audience connect with your train of thought. I especially appreciate the time spent at the D-Bit grinder!
Oh that dreaded Shelf Of Shame, we all have one! This video has came at the perfect time for me. I have taken my carriage apart on my Shenwai 12X36 import lathe. Great machine, just made with oddball parts that are hard to replace. I have a broken tooth on both, a 13 tooth splined gear and a 19 tooth bronze worm gear. Being I cannot find replacements, I have to resort to making these. I have zero gear cutting experience, so I have been reading and watching everything I can on gears. I knew they were complex, but have realized they are within my skill set, but ridiculously involved. I truly appreciate your content and learn so much from every video you make!
'Shelf Of Shame', mine has grown into a wing as in 'shelves'
I've 'marked' my pieces as to keep track of where I F'd up & some times my F' ups actually work in other applications or test pieces
In other words, I don't like throwing anything away
@@AtticusDraco I use the same process! I do not throw anything away either. I have saved or repurposed, so much material by doing this. Thanks Atticus!
Thank you for your time filming, and the great editing, much appreciated :)
Yes, they are Invoute. I've cut enough. Internal and external. Never any DIN or ISO but lots of SAE. On an SAE spline the height is normally 50% of what a gear of the same pitch would be. I'm reasonably sure that ISO and DIN splines are the same. A SAE spline is (orwere)* described a fraction in which the numerator is used to determine the pitch diameter. The denominator is used to determine the height of the addendum and the depth of the dedendum. The OD would be # of teeth plus 1 decided by the top number. These splines are usually listed as 6/12, 8/16, 10/20, 12/24, 16/32 and so on. There is also a Stub Tooth gear profile developed b Fellows Gear the had her teeth described as 8/10, 10/12 etc with a 20° PA.
My data may be a little out of date. I do have a Barber-Coeman manual on generated tooth forms.
Also there used to be a video on you tube of a home brewed vertical gear Shaper a gentleman in Denmark put together. He needed internal helical gears for the prop reduction drive on a 1/4 scale King Air he was building
Thanks! I will pin this comment as it gives good information.
They are involute because they are made by a roll forming operation. It's similar to knurling. It's very difficult to get straight spline faces when the tool doing the work is basically a round gear.
@@ReiniGrauer
A rolled Spline is usually produced either with a flat tool that looks like a rack or internal gear. In either case the pressure needed is quite high. When I worked in the automotive industry the facility I worked at produced rear ends along with engines, stampings and finished cars. The axles had splines on both ends. The ones that went into the differential were straight. The ones for the rear hub assemblies were tapered if IIRC. Both were rolled. The internal splines in the mating parts were cut in Oil Gear pull Broaches. The Spider Gears wear cut in Geason Rev-a-Cycle gear cutters*. The Ring and Pinion were cut in Gleason Offset Hypoid Gear Cutting Machinery. They were cut in a Roughing Operation and a Finishing Operation. Material was forged 4140. When the teeth where being roughed the pinios were held by a collet on the Drive Shaft U-Joint diameter and center in the gear end. About the only noise you heard was the chips coming off the equipment ran so smoothly. Brilliantly designed machines. The entire machine could be dis-assembled in sections if there was a mechanical problem. The gear sets were then run as matched pairs in a Gleason gear lapper. Finished gear sets when set-up for testing in a quite room at proper lash setting made made any noise at all. The production department cut ratios from around 1:2.79 to 1:4.12. A seperate set of machines cut ratios up to 1:5.xxx for experimental, dealer installed and racing applications
*The Spider Gears actually had the teeth rough forged.
I'm always trying to identify splines and trying to buy cutters,
@@mpetersen6 not necessarily. Spines are very often rolled with round tools. Either way, when you roll form a spline with either a rack or a rolling tool involute teeth are invariably going to be the result because the part is also round
ua-cam.com/video/TNOd9I1sCXg/v-deo.html
Thank you Stefan for introducing a lot of us to the D-bit grinder. It is such an invaluable tool, especially for the non-professionals, who have the time to spend on sharpening and making tools.
Nice touch "This old basement". A wonderful tribute to the master carpenter Norm Abram.
Your videos just draw me in. So much detail in one video, I got about 18 minutes in and forgot I was watching a video about cutting a spline shaft.
"Close fit rust" I was not aware of that kind of corrosion. To google that topic will be my bed time story tonight. Thanks for always digging fairly deep into every subject, there is always something to pick up from your videos and I appreciate it greatly! Thanks mate.
Would that be the same as fretting corrosion?
Yes, another word for it.
Forgot in the last video. Want to wish you a great new year. Best in 2021
Many splines are rolled using 2 parallel progressive racks. Zip zip roll thru the racks and they are done. They usually are involute splines though if they are of any quality.
Brian, nice of you to watch and reply, I watched your video this morning. Many thanks to all you machinists. Great skills and knowledge you command.
Thanks Brian, learned something. Rolling the profile makes complete sense and would create a involute without any effort.
So funny Stefan about the "shelf of shame" comment you made. Years ago we labeled it the "wall of shame" if they were small enough to fit on the wall they were labeled with the persons name. Mind you, this was always done in jest. No one was ridiculed for their mistake. Hey, I made that wall :)
That loose fit wear you describe is called “fretting” on this side of the pond.
Great video as always.
Thanks,
John
I was thinking the same. Nothing makes your heart sink like seeing engine case halves fretting with each other!
Very like your suction equipment, from a retired mechanic ,Thailand.
In before all the haters say you overheated the steel and drew the hardness out. Great job on this Stefan. Been a fan of your work for years now!
thank you Stephon . final after 50 years i get to have some one explain the way to determine the the dividing head & plat in relation to the rational value of the deferent gear diarchal be it 40 to 1 or 60to1 or 90to 1 I have struggled with it for years , But you taking the time to explain it sunk in final i get it. I've reaed up time & time agen but . you explained it well thank you Les England .
Stefan, you have ALL the cool tools to make tools.
You did that like it was a walk in the park! Great to watch you deploy the tremendous skills you’ve honed. And that guy must be a REALLY good friend.
I was wondering why to go through the trouble of making a test piece.
But then you showed us why ;-)
Very instructive!
I think it turned out awesome. Yours is better then the original. Very interesting steps to get ready to cut the splines thanks for sharing and your time.
I'm just 4 seconds in and get a laugh with "Welcome back to This Old Basement", nice one.
Use old dryed plumbers silicone for cleaning diamond stones/sandpaper -works like a charm. Pencil eraser works as well.If you use some chalk before grinding it will stick less,works same as on hand files.
He wasn't using the aluminum oxide stone to clean it as much as he was using it to break down the binder of the CBN matrix, to expose more CBN.
Thank you for sharing you experience and foremost your most valuable commodity your time
Really enjoyed watching 👍🏼
My shelf of shame. LOL. I got one of those too. When i had a Triumph shop in the UK, we kept a box of incorrectly machined genuine parts, called "little shop of horrors".... Der Meister makes mistakes too. Great vid as per usual Stefan, love your work.
Stefan... you’re a stud. A rockstar. A legend. :). This is such an information packed gem! Tagging along on your projects is such a treat. Laughter and education. All in one. Great stuff!! You’re breakdown of the tool grinding was perfect! Thank you. “Shelf of shame”. Lol. I’ve got a hole cabinet of shame. 🤪
Very interesting Stefan. I bought a 'D bit' grinder a while ago but haven't used it much. Your tutorials are absolutely invaluable, thank you!
Your previous vids inspired me to purchase 2 tools, a Deckel S0 grinder and a Deckel G1L pantograph. Both have come in very handy, the grinder more so. Either way, I love the detail you put in showing how you work through your thinking when making custom tooling, very informative. thanks again for the effort you put in . All the Best John (Michigan USA)
Another great video Stefan. I'm not an engineer, but my understanding of involuted teeth are for teeth on gear wheels that mesh together and transfer a rotation. The pattern of the involute produce a torque that acts in the correct direction for an efficient drive. The spline shafts you are making are just interlocking and do no move relative to each other, so there is no need for them to have an involute pattern. Don't worry, This Old Tony didn't teach me this at all in his video "Gears, but were afraid to ask (minilathe)"!! Lol
Hey Stefan
Thank you for your great videos. I really enjoy the moments when your humor shines through.
I was thinking they are rolled. Sort of captured between two racks that squeeze the shaft between them. A common process for mass production. I like your attention to show every little detail. very interesting.
I love your videos. I am not lost on the fact that the most precise dude on youtube is German. lol.
Stefan STYLE vids so informative in his low key way....!!!!!
"This Old Basement"...
I wonder to whom is he referrencing. XD.
Thank you Stefan, I'm always so excited to watch your videos. I'll need to put time aside to soak some detail. Hope you are well.
Thanks Stefan, love the grinding shots. I like tool making as much or more than parts making.😁.
Nice work on both👍
That was very interesting. Thanks for the video. I am finally getting around to setting up my D bit grinder.
Think your thought processes are top notch
Very well presented with detail explanations. Nice work.
Are you missing your shaper much these days?
I have a Rockwell Delta 7 inch and it is my favorite machine in the shop. It won't do everything that other machines will do, but what it does do, it does eminently.
You can broach on a mill but it's not as much fun. There's something very satisfying about how a shaper does its thing that other machines don't give you.
The finishes I get make milling look amateurish and sloppy. They approach the look of surface grinding and are almost as flat.
In any case I'm a big fan of yours and admire your vast knowledge and meticulous craftsmanship. I have been a machinist for almost sixty years and learn something new every single time I watch one of your videos.
Probably a roll form for the splines. Same machine and setup as thread rolling except the dies have the spline form. Very fast full form. Great video with fantastic explanations and follow through on the whole process!
The teeth on the axles/drive shafts were probably rolled. Finish dimension is checked with pins the proper size and a micrometer. Checking Internal splines require adjustable parallel with vees ground into the working faces.
The splines are put on the shaft with rollers ,like a knurling rollers I think.
Not a machinist but I have designed parts that attached to existing involute splines and the details really matter. The wrong spline or using materials of different hardness leads to fretting and failure. It is also important to use a *high* moly grease in joints where there is any movement at the joint or green Loktite w/ primer for ridged joints.
Ask yourself if it could cause a safety concern if the joint failed before using any non-standard method.
Last summer my brother did the 'opposite' of this in making a splined shaft for a drive shaft modification on his lathe.
Rolling the carriage back and forth pass by pass, it took him about 3 hours...
Long, patience demanding job.
Wish I had a CNC tool for making inside and outside splines as well as keyways [ a CNC broaching machine ]!
Stefan, at the end where you showed both spline shafts, it seemed pretty clear that the other shaft was either broached or shaped with a single pass cutter from the end. You could see the stub of the chip at the inside end of the spline cut. Possibly the splines on the far end of the shaft were rolled from the material pressing up at the edges of the valleys.
splines can also be rolled by rotary tools like when rolling threads or by linear moving tools with flat dies.
Further there is axial forming which is a bit like "drawing wire".
axial forming: ua-cam.com/video/JvyAW0VHAoM/v-deo.html
rolling with round die: ua-cam.com/video/Q4PtePb1IfE/v-deo.html
rolling with flat die: ua-cam.com/video/akxOAjfgRIA/v-deo.html
Thank you Stefan for another fascinating episode.
Awesome work. Thank you for posting such wonderful information and craftsmanship.
Such splines are usually rolled. The envelope shape is the result of that forming process. The simplest tools are made of three hardened gears in a triangle configuration of which one can move closer to the center of the three gears. They are all free spinning. The shaft it inserted and turned. The one gear get forced closer and the splines are pressed in. On bigger shafts it's a hot forming process.
To do it this way is fast and strengthens the splines. Normally a later process will create the finished shape.
Sehr gut video! Very intersesting clamps for the whip dial indicator.
I like the tool holder you made to center the spindle much better than that new one.I want to make one when i get a chance.Down loaded your drawings
Not sure about this particular application, but splines on car axles are usually hot forged using a crimp-type tool. Displacing the material by crimping creates a stronger part but may cause slightly irregular geometry such as what you are seeing.
Great video! I've seen splines like that beeing formed with something that looks like a knurling tool on steroids.
The splines on the shafts are more than likely rolled. Pretty common process in high volume production. Literally takes seconds.
could be the splines are rolled intoo the shaft. like knurling but on a industrial scale , could explain the convelution as the cutter rolls in and rolls out of the groove
Great video, as always, thanks.
I can tell you enjoy your trade
Happy to see your top German Knowledge back!
Pretty good Sir, I have a job just about the same coming up soon for a customer I have been doing work for many many years. Great video
Ha! this old basement got me right off the bat!
Love your videos. Thanks.
Interesting throughout. As usual.
As usual, I learned something while watching your video; I didn't know Rod Stewart was a machinist.
Gday Stefan, I really found this interesting, one day I hope to be good enough to be able to make splines, thank you for showing the tool grinding that was most interesting, awesome video once again, Matty
As always a very nice video. Only you can put so much engineering excellence in to a part for a model truck and make it interesting
Stefan, this is a very interesting video and I learned a lot. I also got a kick out of "this old basement"! ;)
When will you be doing a tour of the shelf of shame?
What, all one item would boring and besides you have already seen it. 😉
I'm not sure how well a pun translates, but those splines look more "knurley" to me than "gnarley"!
What this project really needed was a Power Hacksaw... But where would I find.....????
Hi Stefan. Excellent 'How to' guide and superb macro videography - just as difficult to get focus as to do the grinding. Cheers. BobUK.
Nice work again Stefan!
ATB, Robin
Really cool video! You are a very humble person but you're an incredibly talented machinist. Great video and thank you for sharing. Matt C.
Fascinating, and very educational. Thanks Stefan!
Thank you for the video. I like your thought processes🤣
4:30 the spline profile is the same as a gear, just a higher pressure angle. Its not straight forward to measure the pressure angle of a spline. The main advantages of the involute profile is the internal and external surfaces match, the main advantage of this is the splines will self center, and each spline will have contact even if the inner and outer spline have slop and are not phased perfectly. also many times these splines are formed by rolling.
about centering on a bore with a noga, i usually like to swing the noga a few times while staring at the setup, and try to visualize where the center of rotation is in relation to the bore, get it close before actually putting the indicator on the part, but i agree, noga's aren't the best for finding bores.
The splines may have been surface broached though since they appear to be a smaller outside diameter than the shaft this is unlikely. They have almost certainly been rolled which is a form of swaging. Both are much faster methods of production than spline milling. The advantage of the latter process is it may have toughened the material as well depending on which alloy the shafts have been made from
I really enjoyed this video, great info and explanation.
Hi Stefan, nicely made video and well machined thanks for sharing
Stefan well explained final solution for the MoJo drive HOBBY HORSE .😁😁😁👍 .
I really like your spindle lock. I would like to copy your idea for a Bridgeport mill. Nice work.
Stefan, But I wanted a science fair project !!!! 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Seriously, though, looking forward to getting thru the rest of the project.
Cheers from Connecticut.
Science fair project will be the next video ;)
@@StefanGotteswinter Awesome. Somehow I knew you were gonna say that :-) Looking forward to it.
@@StefanGotteswinter Excellent!
@@StefanGotteswinter Bet HE wanted a PONY too!!😂😂😂😂😂
This tool grinder is greate.
Stephen the English word you are looking for the type of corrosion you were speaking of is referred to as "fretting" which can be a major headache in the aircraft maintenance world.
Love ya man, can make something requiring multiple thread lead, I'm curious to see if the tool needs to be narrowed for more relief, or even slanted...
I imagine rotating swage wheels would give you an involute profile like that (depending on the swage profile). Thanks for the great video!
Very interesting!
30 DEGREE splines are involute. *almost* always.
Due to manufacturing technologies, whether it's HOBBING or SHAPING will always produce an involute spline, (unless, a cutter or hobb were made specifically for that gear/spline) becaus the tool and the work both rotate.
Keep up the good work!
Another possibility is the the factory splines are rolled to form the spline, then machined to size.
Stefan,
Straight-sided splines are quite an old design. While still having applications on things like industrial equipment (e.g. a power take-off shaft on a tractor), they have been almost entirely replaced by involute splines for virtually all applications that required a high-quality and/or accurate interface with a very controlled "fit".
There are many advantages to involute splines, the two main ones being: 1) they can be very accurately cut on a gear hobbing machine, or on gear shaper, and... 2) The “fit” of external spline to internal spline can easily be calculated and then measured -- often while still in the machine by a measurement over wires or between wires. ( Internal splines can also be broached of course, but so can internal straight-sided splines).
Involute splines can be 20, 25, 30, or 45 degree pressure angle, with the 45 degree PA splines being commonly referred to as: “serrations”, which are more frequently seen in finer-pitch splines and typically used in a “non-sliding-fit” scenario. There are also both "flat-root side fit" and "fillet-root side fit" -- the major and minor diameters differ between the two, however the underlying geometry is still the same involute at the same form diameter.
To correct something above -- involute splines are "typically" 30 degree, 37.5 degree or 45 degree. My brain was stuck in gears when I wrote the pressure angles in my original message.
To be honest, the only time you need to worry about involute dimensions is when the parts are rotating each other. If they are fitting into a spool like you made, as long as there is 50% of contact below nominal you should be fine. The involute is designed to make gear rotation mesh and perform more efficiently. It is no concern on stationary parts.
if those splines were formed with a rotating swage (like a knurling tool) then the profile would likely be involute shaped.
Yes, he mentions that.
Very interesting almost mesmerizing work well done
very good video..thanks for your time
Very interesting. Thank you Stefan.
Ah the old shelf of shame. I've got a whole cupboard of shame these days! As long as there is only ever one of each thing in the cupboard, your pride stays in tact.
TOT cuddled up to this topic as well.
Nice work! You should punch some markings for the different sides.
Being a bit of a joker I would cut the test piece so I had 2 short ones and weld them together side by side give it to your friend as the coupler you made should be good for a laugh