I agree. I bought a 2014 Nissan leaf Tekna 12000 miles for £9500 December 2016. Sold it with 17000 miles on clock January 2019 for £10200. Two years driving £700 profit. the first time I ever made a profit on a car.
My 2.zero LEAF has used £600 in electricity to cover 18000 miles in a year, A fossil car at 46 mpg works out at £1924 approx for the same mileage. I can off put the £1324 saving against depreciation. It makes the LEAF a better buy than most fossil fuelled cars of a similar size and spec. The problem with using Auto trader is that it seems to be based on MRRRP, something no one pays. When I went round a few dealers, asking for prices of a variety of cars I found that with the deal I had for the LEAF it was only slightly more expensive than a petrol car.
Barry PURKIS absolutely. I only used the Autotrader prices as they were consistent and the figures I had been provided with. That said I didn’t think they were too far off. I’m please your Leaf is working out for you. It can be really difficult to convince ICE owners just how much you can save!
@@EVOpinion indeed. i've finally convinced my dad to buy a EV as his new car. just showed him the savings in fuel. fuel for petrol £1500 vs £150ish for elect. been for a test in a PHEV so far (he enjoyed the electric portion. he wasn't prepared for the instant torque, almost rear ended car in front on dual carriageway). planning on doing test drives for Renualt Zoe 40kWh, 30kWh or 40kWh Leaf and Hyundai ioniq electric. Just started looking into the battery lease vs battery owned Zoe options (90p/m battery lease, 10k miles. works out at £10.8k if car were to be kept for 10 years ). he is still not fully convinced about battery lifespan. He's been keeping cars for at least 12 years (until major aspects require constant fixing). he has had his current car for 13 years, bought car in 2006 two years old. current mileage= 150 200. I took a picture of the readout at 149 999 miles.
@@Michael-qm5yc I did use the day rate of 14 ppkwh, there are off peak rates that do indeed reduce the cost. Many people do not have a suitable meter. As an aside much of my charging is done during sunny times , directly from the sun , very cheap and carbon neutral!, (as at this moment)
Just got rid of my PHEV Outlander and bought a 2015 24Kw Nissan Leaf Accenta for £10500 with a 6.6Kw charger, Reason being can make use of the full range free of charge electricity via my solar panels and got rid of the problem I would have had paying a balloon payment on the PCP on the PHEV. The LEAF is mine and paid for. Planning on getting a V2H (Vehicle to House) unit that makes use of a supply of 240V Ac to the house using the battery power of the LEAF and can be more off grid thus cheaper running costs on my electric bill, this is acheaper option than paying for a Tesla Power Wall. Just changed Electric supplier to Octopus as they have an Electric off peak charging rate of 5p per Kw from 00:30am till 04:30am so if low sun then backup plan in operation.
Janet Morris I too charge my car using Economy 7 (midnight to 7am GMT), so around 7p/KWh and that is what makes all the difference between 2p/mile and 5p/mile for peak electricity. I see you used the hybrid route to full EV too. It is the way to build confidence and burst the bubble myth around “range anxiety” which I call journey planning 😀
A friend of mine has a Leaf and he's worried the charging port type will be eliminated, so he'll be limited to charge at home. The charging infrastructure sucks and has barely improved in the last 5 years. Why buy into something that's a even more of a hassle?
I bought a Tesla Model X 90D in Oct 2017. Sure it is now worth a lot less, but that's only if I wanted to sell it! It is the best car I have ever owned and I would not be without it. All the others I have owned (MB R class, BMW 5 series and X3, Volvo XC 90) were all feeling very old vehicles within a year with nop updates and very jaded technology, and my Tesla just gets better and better. No other car can say that, so I can confidently say I will never buy another ICE car
About a year ago I thought buying a second had Zoe (ZE40) was the cheaper way to go for a second car... i just couldn't find one, and when i did find a few, it soon dawned on me it was cheaper to buy new, the price of a second hand Zoe was so strong at the time and coupled with all the benefits from the government/Renault etc. made buying a new one the cheaper option!
For what it's worth, about 18 months ago I started looking in to getting an early Zoe or Leaf. Sadly I haven't got much money so I deciced to leave it a year until the prices were lower. Yup, great plan. The prices for the exact same cars I was looking at 18 months ago are higher now than they were then. So I'm still no nearer having the car I wanted than I was then. On the bright side, if you were forward thinking enough to get one then you actually won on this one. Well done you :)
Great video, totally agree with everything you said. My 3 year PCP is ending in June on my 2016 30kwh Leaf. The mileage agreement was 30,000 over 3 years and the final payment (what they thought it would be worth after 3 years and 30k) is £10,300. I've done 50,000 miles and the same model with similar mileages is going for £11,800 on autotrader. In other words despite having done an additional 20,000 miles my car is worth £1500 more than they predicted. Also as a side note I'm still getting 110 miles on a warm day so have only lost 10 miles range in 3 years and 50k miles so the naysayers who predict massive battery degradation are also wrong.
Just sold my 2016 leaf sv (Canada price in cnd) for $20000 with 100k kms. I paid $27000 after incentives and $4000 cash down. The residual of my loan was $14000. My paiements add up to $14600. Crushing all the numbers put the real depreciation value at $12600 for 100k kms or $0.126 per km. Add the running cost of $0.02 per km the car cost me $0.146 per km. So I made money with my car on the petrol savings alone without adding savings on maintenances and repairs. The person I sold it to will pay his loan with the petrol and bridges tolls savings alone. That makes it virtually a free car compared to running a petrol one.
One factor as to EVs often dismissed: much cheaper to operate! After 5 years of owning a LEAF the savings of fuel return more than any depreciation estimate. Brakes require zero service. ICE brake service are needed at the 25,000 mile mark. Oil, transmission, coolant service: zero. Thanks
Hi Ryan! Great video! There is a company called ALG.com that specializes in analyzing car depreciation in North America. It is a subsidiary of truecar.com. ALG analyzes a wide variety of macro, industry, and market factors to create the industry's benchmark depreciation forecasts. Instead of the Webby Awards... they have invented something called the Residual Value Awards. It seems like a business to business web site, not directly for consumers. I don't know whether they take the government incentive amount off and work down from there or if they ignore the government incentive? Will your council allow you to put a couple of 100 watt solar panels on your shed?
Because I wanted to change to a Tesla Model 3, I put my one year old Opel Ampera E with with 15K miles on the odometer for sale. In a month time I got not a single reaction from a prospective ev-owner. However I did receive a small number of bids from car-merchants, varying from €30000 to € 36000. Here in the Netherlands this model costs new with the same specs € 55000 . So that is € 19000 depreciation in one year and what's more: no reaction from private buyers. The Opel Ampera E is actually a very good car with a good range, so I will keep driving it.
I'm seeing the same thing with my LEAF. Two years ago, I bought my 2014 used LEAF for 12,000.00 dollars. Now I'm seeing the same LEAF (or close enough) selling for $15,000.00. So it has appreciated in value... even with more miles on the clock! I'm sure I could sell it today and make a profit if I wanted to. I've never owned a car that appreciated.
I bought a 2013 Leaf partly on your recommendation, about 5 weeks ago. It's my first EV, and I've wanted an EV for over 10 years. In Australian dollar terms, I paid about what you pay in the UK. Some would say it's a high mileage car..83,000ks.. ( about 50,000 miles) but as far as I'm concerned, because EVs need so little maintenance, it's virtually just "run in". ( That's an antiquated ICE car term). I bought it from a car dealer who imports used cars directly from Japan, so that's looked down upon here, as a "Grey Import". So it wasn't imported by Nissan Australia, so there's no way to claim a replacement battery under warranty. They would just tell me to "Piss Off".. ( A common Australian term meaning to "go away".) I'm finding this car to be amazing, I'm loving it. EVs are in such an infancy stage here in Australia that you can recharge in public charging stations for FREE. I don't know of any Petrol stations ANYWHERE that have a pump that is free to use, free of charge. The short range on my car, around 100ks, is no real problem for me. I'll possibly trade mine in on a car ( an EV) with a battery heat management system in a few years, when my car's value goes up about $5,000 Aust dollars. Hahah... amazing.
Enjoyed the chat and the coffee. I enjoyed a lemon tart too. Prices are rising simply because of supply and demand as you say. Once Hyundai sort out the battery supply and VW hit the market there will be plenty of Leaf 24s and 30s on the market and that can only be good news.
I handed back my 22 kWh Zoe March last year. The GFV was £4200. If you wanted to buy it off the forecourt today it would coat you £7450. I wish I'd paid the GFV now. Depreciation what depreciation. There's so much demand prices are appreciating. So long as there are queues to buy the new models, prices will be buoyant.
Greatings from Norway. Some "know it alls" here too claim battery has to be changed after 5 years or 100'km, whichever comes first (end of warranty). Wonder if they also claim the ICE-engine has to be change by end of warranty.. They also claim EV's will be worthless after a few years. Checked up the usedmarket on Leaf here a few months ago, my -13 Tekna has depriciated about the same as a similiar new-priced ICE. It must be said though that some fair better and some worse. Ampera-e, some Tesla's and perhaps Ioniq, Kona, e-Niro is, or has been on the usedmarked at higher price than new. I'd imagine that those last 30kWh Leafs depriciate more because of the new model, and same for Golf, Zoe etc with bigger battery. Also a Golf seems to hold value better than Leaf. But all in all, what I see here depriciation isn't a bigger concern than with an ICE. The only deviation may be if you're buying a new car and a new model at about the same price is around the corner. But, that is also true with an ICE..
One of the people on the Renault Zoe group (RZOC) recently had her used Zoe stolen after a short time ownership. Their insurance has paid the market value, as you'd expect. It is reportedly more than they bought the Zoe for. EV, not a great Speculators tool. But for a while, until supplies come on stream more readily available, there's a chance that the used market prices will super or even hyper inflate beyond all reason!
Recently bought an ex-demo Ioniq EV, Premium SE (top spec). Registered March 2019 (19 plate, so less than a month old). Only 400 miles on it and got it for £4K under the new price. So bargains are out there if you don’t want the very latest model. Lovely car and I’m very happy with it. 👍
Been Watching the used prices of Mercedes B250e closely for a few months as my finance deal ends in June. The prices haven't dropped at all in the last 8 months and typically stay around £16k-£17k. 3 years ago, these cars were being heavily discounted brand new and Mercedes were briefly selling them at £19.5k - £21k. The car we had before this was a Ford BMax Ecoboost titanium, 1.0. Also £19.5k new; after 3 years it was worth about a third of its new value.
Bought my 40kwh leaf last July for €26,000. Had it valued last week.....€23,900. It has 25k km on the dial. Very happy and surprised with current valuation.
In southern California, short-range Leafs (Leaves?), Fiats, Sparks & BMW i3s (less so) are cheap because charging is challenging, and their two new to know what the battery life span is. We won't see this rapid depreciation again, longer-range will work for more people
You UK situation is so different that USA, especially the NY area. Our gasoline is still so cheap there are no reasons to buy electric. I have 22,000 miles I have put on my smart for two electric. gets to train and back and to work when I can. Got it very cheap and battery is barely 2 years old now, still at 100% health.
I bought my 2015 Nissan Leaf a second hand and it was roughly one third of the original asking price. It had four thousand miles on it and the arranged limitations work for my life style. It was relatively cheap for me, it is now paid off just a couple of years later and because of the solar system on my house and free charging at some of my employment locations the car will pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time. Probably 8 to 10 years I will have offset enough savings in fuel and maintenance cost to entirely pay for the purchase price of the vehicle. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
I put aside a budget of £4k for an iMiev/Ion/C-Zero which is what they were going for 18 months ago and now they're going for >£5k. Once some of these suppliers get their production levels ramped up (eNiro, Kona, Model 3) people will start selling their 'stopgap' cars and the prices will level off again. Meanwhile I'm stuck with fossil fuel :-(
Another really good video. One I can relate to. I brought my 2014 leaf in 2017 being 3 years old. Average mileage of 29k. I paid £7,500 for it. Can I buy a three year old leaf at that price today? Not a chance. My car is currently valued at £8,000 with 50k mileage. I wondered why. You have explained this well and I agree with your findings. I wondered if it had a lot to do with battery prices. Even old batteries can be reused. When I looked at a similar car to mine for sale online. It was £9,000 odd. (You only have to check autotrader or eBay)
This is also the same with hybrids. My 2010 auris is worth £1200 more than I paid for it 1 year ago even though I've stuck 25,000 miles on it in the last 12 months. Electric and hybrids have excellent residuals.
Yes, definitely agree about near zero depreciation. I'm saving to buy a 40kWh Leaf, and a car valued in April 2018 at £24k would still be at a similar price today, one year later, even though it has 5-10,000 more miles on the clock! It's great news for when you own one, but not so helpful if you're saving up to buy one!
I enjoy watching you. I purcased a Used 2018 Nissan Leaf SV found one that only had 58 miles on it basically a New car saved around 11000.00 dollars US. I live in Phenix City AL and they charge you more for registration because they lose taxes by you not buying gas.The power Company give you off peak charging discount, also my Company charges it for free.
I bought the "2.Zero"-Edition of the Leaf that was delivered to me in August '18. I paid 31.400EUR an received a state subsidy of 2.000EUR. It's May '19 now, I drove nearly 20.000km and could sell it for more than I paid for it at the moment here in Germany.
I have been following the leaf prices for some time. If you were looking for one pre-2012 you could have picked them up very cheap. But as EV's have become more mainstream they have gone up in price. A similar but less marked was the Prius. They are also very cheap to run and very reliable.
Mid-Atlantic US here. I would say in general EVs hold their value well, with the exception of the Leaf. However recently I've noticed a market correction and used prices have taken a bit of a drop across the board. Older Leafs here are able to be had for around $6k-8k now. Used Model Ss can be had under $30k. I think it's due to Tesla's recent price drops on new vehicles and the availability of the Model 3, especially the Standard range version. Everything else had to get pushed down a bit. Even new Chevy Bolts are going for $32k and again used ones just a year or two old are in the mid to upper $20k range.
I have a small company in the Netherlands and ordered a Hyunday Kona EV on 12th of July 2018. € 45.000 is a huge amount of money, but VAT can be deducted, there is the MIA stimulation (subsidized), taxes are limited, fuel is free (due to my solar panels at home). Economics are positive, but I'm still waiting for the car to come in June 2019 or so. The limited taxes are garanteed for only 5 year, so I already found a buyer for my car in 2024: that is me as a private person (one year befor my pension). So if the car performes well, it does not come on the 2nd hand market... That is not helping the market!
The situation is quite different between the UK and the USA. Here the early Leafs and the BMW i3s are basically unusable because of the poor range, so I don't think there's any price rebound on them. There are many reasons to buy a used Tesla, though, so they don't depreciate as fast as ICE cars. Competitors still aren't making EVs that match or exceed the specs on a 2012 Model S.
Thanks for the information, Ryan. Bubbles burst, sooner or later. This is a bubble. We’ll have an EV for our next car, but we're low mileage (less than 1,600 km / 1,000 miles so far this year), and our small fossil still has a few years of life, so replacing the car would save us nothing right now. For folks in a similar situation, patience should be worthwhile.
We have a 2013 LEAF purchased for $9100 USD at the beginning of 2018. Now I am buying another one and it's $10,500. My plan is to keep these through the next 4-5 years then buy the first gen of the big car push as used at that time. Ideally a used ID or Model 3 or Y. But I prefer to buy cheap now and wait then hopefully buy cheap again used in the US. I feel like there is a sweet spot for buying used in the US when there are incentives still available on new cars of the same brand.
Shame these cars won't take off here in Australia, we can't shift the towns closer together,the Outback is VAST ,I drive around 300-350mile a day[482-563km] and can't see charging stations being built in the small towns I pass through anytime soon.
I'm not surprised this is happening and if I were in a position to have bought an EV with the tax incentives my state was offering at the time, I would still be smiling all the way to the bank with the amount I would have saved in fuel and maintenance over the past 5 years. I have looked into used and the prices are half of what I paid for my Prius but for model that get under 100 miles. For the car I truly want that ticks all of the boxes... it is more than what I paid for the Prius, yet if I felt comfortable going into a bit of debt for it, I would snatch up a used Tesla without blinking. Next year in the magic year of "2020" we should see things get better, makers say... we'll see. What I am most happy about is the changes in laws, zones, minds and supply that shows that we have begun to go over the tipping point of ICE being dominant in the very near future.
I've just done some rough calculation. My LEAF was £24000 new, I save £1324 a year in fuel against a petrol car. Using the average lifetime of a car in the UK as 11 years. (MOT records). over 11 years I will save £14564 , putting my net depreciation from new at a total of £9436. Of course the depreciation of a 'cheaper' fossil car is the total price from new, So depending on the make and model you will lose a bucketful of money. (A Dacia at £15000+ by the time you raise the spec from basic dire? )
Really interesting discussion, we’ve gone back to owning an EV having just bought a used Zoe and our buying ‘train’ was essentially what you describe it think it’s called the Zero moment of truth when we realised the deal being offered fitted what we wanted exactly. Interesting to note we are thinking of switching out our long range ICE for a Tesla but we are waiting for the model 3 to arrive to see if this knocks the prices down for used S & X models, what do you think ?. Maybe another coffee and blog theme !
With electric cars, if they are made right, there is basically a cap on depreciation. In a petrol car, the vehicle will eventually hit a point where it's useless to perform repairs because between the engine, transmission and differential(s) you will spend the entire time you own it chasing your tail with repairs. This isn't the case with an EV. The drive train consists of less than half a dozen moving parts. They have traded mechanical complexity for technological complexity... and let's face it... after a car has $80,000 miles on it the electronics that are still alive are unlikely to fail any time soon. Tesla gave it's early customers, prior to 2016, an additional perk in that free supercharging follows those vehicles. This was a wonderful perk for the early adopters. So if you buy a second hand 85-90kwh Tesla S or X you may spend $60,000 or so on it but you will still be getting great value for the money. Even if that vehicle has high mileage. I'm running a tech channel and I'm looking to upgrade my Tesla S for no other reason than to update to a car with full self driving. My car has a little over 100,000 miles on it and anyone purchasing this car second hand can drive it with confidence that it's mechanically just as sound as it was when I bought it. Tesla even gave these cars an 8 year unlimited mile warranty on both battery and drive train. So there is even still 4 years left on that warranty. I think this really is going to usher in a whole new way of thinking about these cars. Especially once they start to drive themselves.
Hi. Just subscribed to your channel. Great video! I ordered my e-nv200 business edition 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately I have to wait 7 months for the car to arrive! Until then i'll be burning up more petrol and not saving on costs. As for chargers, here in the Netherlands we have a big network, so the change of running out of "fuel" is not an issue.
I do agree with you. I am relocating to Ireland and looking for cleaner and more efficient options for mobility. I think the next 5-10 years will be a defining moment in EV history.
Few people want a 1st gen EV, so they are probably worth little. 2nd gen EV's are much more usable, so are attractive to buy, which raises their price. In the Netherlands few 2nd hand EVs are available and most have been in lease, so are at least 4 years old, which is kind of 1 st gen still...
I’m thinking of getting a 2015 used Leaf but I’m a little worried that the car will depreciate really heavily after this age as the car battery ages and it’s useful range drops. Does this make any sense? I would plan to keep the car 3-5 years and would like if the car had some value at the end of this.
My Leaf has covered 75000 miles now. I haven't has any issues with it and have saved a fortune. I think it's like any car. If you buy new it will depreciate heavily. Second hand will find a good deal. The demand is still strong for all EVs so I wouldn't worry too much.
About battery degradation rather than depreciation- hope that's ok! We bought a second hand 2012 24kw Nissan Leaf from a Nissan dealership in February 2017 with 9000miles on the clock, and 12 battery bars. As of today, we have 10 bars, SOH 77%. We were wondering if you knew anything about the Nissan battery replacement scheme (cost, battery type, etc.). Do you know if a Nissan refurbished battery programme is due to become available in the UK? Considering the rising prices of EVs, is it worth doing a battery replacement, or would it make more sense to buy a new/second hand when the range falls below tolerable levels?
What is your opinion looking at two leafs 14 plate with 24 kwh 52.000 on clock teckna £8600 or 16 plate teckna 30 kwh 55.000 on clock £10.500 they seem good value with these mileage s
I am on my second second hand low mileage EV. I sold my 21013 Ford Focus EV for $800.00 over value and purchased my 2015 Soul EV for $1500.00 under value. As a bonus I later discovered that the Soul had it’s main traction battery replaced in February of 2018 sooo...
I believe the rapid development of technology in EVs is helping to create 2nd hand bargains. For example, I chose to buy a 3 year old 22Kw Zoe, knowing full well a 40Kw version was now available. That 60-90 mile range for the 22Kw version is perceived as a major drawback, but armed with a home charger, it is absolutely fine for 95% of the motoring we do as a family. That meant I got a bit of a bargain and the car is now worth about £1k more than I paid for it 8 months ago. I do wonder if the depreciation of new EVs will level out (meaning PCP costs should go down), once the rate of development of technology starts to level off?
That Leaf valuation seems a bit of a joke to me. Over £10k for a 2014 Leaf with a tiny battery? Hell no. I'm sure £10k is reasonable given the state of the used market, but I would never pay that much for a first-generation, short-range EV. Frankly, I'd rather stick with ICE until the market adjusts than spoff money on an ancient Leaf. It holds value now, but as soon as supply picks up it'll shed value like crazy. It's not a desirable car in the lustworthy sense - there's nothing desirable about its archaic tech, short range or its Platypus face. It's simply available and "good enough" for impatient switchers. It is annoying, though. I'm eager to ditch the ICE completely but I'm not going to throw money away on compromised options like Leaf to make it happen sooner. I'd suggest anyone considering an old Leaf hold off, keep saving and see what options are on the market in 2020 :-)
Aaronage or you could wait for some more scrappage schemes to become available again. If they ever do. We paid £7600 for our 2014 Tekna beck in September 2017. That was £2000 off the screen price plus the value of our old banger. 80 miles range has never been an issue for us. We use the car over our Outlander PHEV. Unless we need to tow the caravan of course. The Outlander does my daily commute perfectly. My wife has the Leaf for her commute.
I really enjoy your channel. Keep the content coming! I live in Alberta, Canada and the EV infrastructure and even access to EVs is limited in comparison to the UK. I too am interested in a pre-owned EV (BMW i3 would be my first choice), but I am going to have to wait another year or two for better inventory to chose from. Already have solar panels...just need the EV to go with it!
This next week and a half is so important for future pricing for EV’s in the Uk, Model 3 and VW ID is being released for order if the ID is cheap (circa £27k) it will make the other manufactures question their pricing. VW has capacity for 330k ID’s per annum (hoping they have the batteries available) so should be plenty to go around 🙏🏻
This is probably a specific effect in the UK as prices of new cars have risen due to the dropping pound. And used car prices are always in relation to a new car.
First of all, thank you for posting this video. There is a lot of very interesting information to consider. I'm sorry if I am asking an obvious question but I am looking to buy a used Teckna in the next few months and wondered what your opinions are on buying a used Leaf with regards to a private sale and dealer sale.
All this will come to an abrupt and very expensive end when international/ EU law makes Lithium and Cobalt mining, use and disposal a very expensive thing. How many EV salespeople have you met who could hold a discussion about Artisan Cobalt mining in West African countries eg DRC? ‘The Environment’ is a two way street.
If carry on doing what we have always done, we will get what we have always got - declining climate change - personally, I very much like the idea of being able to breathe, and for my grandchildren to be able to breathe. The issues in mining these materials needs to be addressed also. Like the oil industry has a great track record too when it comes to how people are treated and exploited; and wildlife when it comes to that - I can remember he Torrey Canyon and the Exxon Valdiz for heck’s sake.
Use google earth to explore oil extraction impact on a global scale - compare that to the size of current lithium and cobalt extraction Also look into the latest battery tech like this example - www.baselarea.swiss/baselarea-swiss/channels/innovation-report/2019/04/innolith-makes-breakthrough-in-vehicle-batteries.html
Excellent analysis. However, despite what you say I heard that there are a lot of new cars being released in 2020, so if could hold on till then (or 2021) it might be better to get a 2nd (or new) EV then... the 2nd hand prices ought to drop again; and if buying new, should get better value for money with the new tech.
The only reason for EV’s holding their price recently is down to supply issues affecting the new car market. The big elephant in the room is battery longevity. Batteries don’t last forever. My phone is only a few years old and already holds less charge than new. As a car battery deteriorates the vale will plummet. The battery is the major cost in these vehicles and replacement will be prohibitively expensive. You would have to be insane to buy an older EV. They are essentially a chuck away item presenting a recycling nightmare. Car manufacturers are milking this inferior tech prior to launching the far more sustainable Hydrogen tech as tested successfully in California many years ago then shelved in order to profit from the questionable impractical Electric options prior to unleashing Hydrogen. (Think Cassette tapes vs CDs) Don’t be fooled buyer beware!
Second hand EV's seem expensive in March 2021. On the one hand there is the pandemic , ev's dont seem to be selling, but the prices are still high. With the supply of many more affordable new EV's in the pipeline is now the time to buy something like a relitavely short range 28KWH Hyundai Ioniq when market changes could soon make these seem outdated?
Thanks again for a well researched piece on EV depreciation. Factors such as the Low Emissions zone in London and potential future restrictions on diesel use in cities will affect used EV pricing but these effects tend to be localised. A friend of mine is an Economics professor who could explain what is really going on here but within a few minutes of him starting to talk... I’m lost! The ups and downs of second hand pricing suggests insufficient information to determine what he calls ‘reputational pricing’..think back to when the Toyota Prius was new to the market their 2nd hand values were all over the place until a few million of them were on the road and drivers had 10 years experience of them. By then there was data showing that the traction batteries didn’t fail after a few years and were in fact very durable. Read ‘Sapiens’ by Yuval Noah Harari, nothing in there about cars!!..he’s a social anthropologist but the text explains very well how things sink into the 'social consciousness’ until ‘EV’s are simply better cars and of course they are more expensive second hand’...becomes COWDUNG (Conventional Wisdom of the Dominant Group) ....I don’t make ‘em up, really I don’t!
Kia e-Niro Diaries I love a good acronym! As you said cleaver people than me can explain the economics behind it but I think the facts are the interesting part and if you own an EV great news 😁👍
Wait until model 3 hits the roads and see the prices of all other models going down. I've been following Norwegian used market for buying one (mostly Hyundai Ioniq). The cars which used to cost 250k kr two months ago are now going for 220k or less. Supply and demand is big factor. There is enough demand for EVs and the ability of companies to roll out EVs in scale will have a huge impact. Tesla can almost do that. Volkswagen with their ID models will get there soon. Massive depreciation is to be expected unless there is any intervention in the form of government incentives/polices around ICE & EVs.
I guess it really depends on your location. There are used 50+ leafs and 20+ i3's available from dealers withing 50 miles of where I am. A lot of them are pretty cheap too.
New technology takes awhile to really take hold. When there are as many Evs on the road as there are petrol vehicles it will become "normal". It took awhile for the first automobiles to overtake the horse and buggy. Same idea here.
Once again I say to come to the middle of the US. Around here I can still find 2016 leafs with less than 25,000 miles for $9,400 USD or around 7,300 pounds. I almost never see prices go back up and when they do it's not for very long. Used electric cars here are not nearly as popular as the public opinion of them is still quite low due to the range being inadequate for many peoples needs. For example I have to drive a minimum of 50 mi. round trip to visit some of my friends, most of my family is around 130 mi. round trip and doing that in the current used market is still a challenge. It's also not uncommon for my family to do 350 mile trips to see family usually limited on time so only a Tesla could work for our family (would still be inconvenient) because the charging infrastructure is not yet available in these areas.
Just traded my 2015 24kw Leaf for a new 40kw 2019 Leaf. In 2 years of ownership it only lost a grand. Paid eleven five traded for ten five. Least ive ever lost on a car! In fact i was only browsing until they offered me a new Tekna for mine and 17k!
I am wanting to buy soon but the prices are way to high. Do most people have 30k to spend on a car? I am waiting for the Mg ezs and hopefully a reasonable price.
Well, I noticed most latest release electric cars are luxury cars with luxury price tags, so I guess that manufacturers have analysed that people are will to spend big on electric cars. But, not me ...
All the dealers have finance plans, so pay for it one piece at a time - the 30k takes longer to pay off but the car payment plus electricity will still be less than the gas/diesel you buy each month right now
@@tinaturner5186 Yes but at 30k you still need a large deposit and quite a hefty monthly payment. You also have to balance this extra payment against the cost of an ICE and petrol. I know not just about the money but for many it is. ICE still way cheaper thats why I imagine lots dont go to EV.
mark bainton Maybe the maths doesn’t work for you, and the dealers would take your ICE as part of the deposit too. For me, I was spending £480 pcm on diesel. For my EV, the repayments AND the electricity running costs come to just under £470 pcm. Two and a half years later, car paid for, running costs £40 pcm, and 37,000 miles down the road. The total cost of ownership just gets better for every day. On topic, my EV has depreciated about £6,000 since I bought it. I knew it would too. The model was superseded with a higher range/ bigger battery model around the time I bought it - it was a demo model so it was already somewhat discounted. Stepping away from the £30,000 figure then, look at the used market - BMW i3 REX circa £18,000 ~ 20,000 miles - a better place to start and within reach of a bank car loan with your ICE as a deposit.
What's the cost of full battery replacement after several years and then include depreciation? 🤔 You left out the most important parameter. Worthless in my opinion. In fact it'll cost money to dispose of the ev after 8 years due it's toxic waste it contains.
Do you think recently introduced government subsidies will cause used vehicles to drop in price? Canada's $5,000 subsidy came into effect yesterday. Catch-22 indeed!
Noel Dillabough subsidies are interesting. There is no doubt they help but as we’ve seen in the UK they have recently reduced but the cost of cars has increased!
Supply verses demand with demand being driven by taxation and fossil fuel costs, particularly in big cities. At present supply is restricted and taxation is ever punitive. As fossil revenues decline then EV's will attract taxation as an absolute certainty but at present the playing field is slanted. Post Brexit trade deals could of course unlock a tidal wave of supply. You pays your money and take your chance.
Zarnticolz Rum the mark up on fuel is minimal so they try to entice customers to buy in the shops. EV drivers are a captive audience all to willing to buy a cup of coffee!
I helped a friend buy a six month old Peugeot ion for under 12k this comes with an 8 year 60k battery warranty plus the remainder of the warranty on the car, mileage under 1k. This will be used as there second car 12 miles to work etc and at the moment a nearby free 22k charger at a lidle they also got a free charge point at home 4 years ago when the gov were subsidising them.at the moment they spend £100 per month in petrol in there 2nd car. What impressed then about the ion on there first test drive was its acceleration! There are a few of these cars being sold now if you look on auto trader I think they are a great investment no battery lease! And chademo What do you think.
Just wondering have you changed your 1st Generation Leaf yet?? If not and are considering buying 2nd generation leaf, that would make for an excellent video. Love your video’s, keep up the good work 👍🏻
Brian j thank you. I haven’t changed it yet. I am considering a 30kwh one but it all depends on how much I can find one for🤔
5 років тому
Planning to buy a Hyundai Ioniq EV. As far as I can tell so far there isn't much difference in price between used and new, although not sure either about any waiting list or how long is it to get a new one? Anyone with any info on that?
Krisztián Kőrösi yes the residuals on the Ioniq are really strong. You will be lucky to get a used one under £21k. But they do pop up now and again. Not many on the market sadly. Great car though and super efficient.
the price of hyundai have risen to lower demand!----------a great marketing idea!--------bet you will wait two years to get one in your chosen colour and spec!j
Good video Ryan, a topic very relevant to me. 13/14 months ago I was due to take delivery of a Nissan 2.Zero but cancelled when Rapidgate hit the UA-cam channels as my use case involved making 260 mile same round trips 10 to 12 times a year and 4 times a year 500 mile round trips so quite regular Rapid Charging. The charging profile has now been addressed by Nissan but today if I want to buy a used 2.Zero I would need to part with £2-£3,000 at my local Nissan dealer. However this is still about £5,000 less than the money i will be spending in about 2 months time when I take delivery of a Kia eNiro as I have a deposit on a First Edition eNiro. But here is the question. Since Leaf 2.Zero would meet my needs and have have a range equivalent to Robert Llewellyn's (and my) balder range should I sell the eNiro when I take delivery and look for Leaf 2018 with software patch thereby avoiding the initial depreciation on the eNiro, because since Kia aren't even accepting orders on the eNiro until 2020 surly I won't lose on the Kia?
I just received a Ford Mondeo 2.0 diesel. Nice car but I'd rather have second hand ev than a brand new ICE. It's a company car and the only say I had was the colour.
Actually "new" Leaf, eNiro and Kona electric have INCREASED in price - some that have been bought late 2018 are now being sold for MORE than original purchase price even with a few thousand miles on the clock.
I definitely get the impression that we are in a transitional period, and prices of used vehicles are going up because many are dipping their toes into the EV pool by starting out with a used car.
Etienne 777 my Leaf is about to hit 50k and still over 90% SOH so don’t worry. Look at the warranties being offered with new EVs. The manufacturers are confident in their product.
I think you are right and wrong at least on Japanese and UK cars 24kwh Nissan Leaf. We can import them from the UK and Japan or any right hand drive country. We also have a Japanese imported 2014 we also brought it in 2016 we paid NZ$18k which lost the huge deprecation from new. However you are 100% correct on second hand 24kwh Leaf as 3 years later our 2014 Leaf are still selling for NZ$18k-$20k so it's 3 years older yet still the same price or higher. They are everywhere here mostly in blue color, must of been a very popular colour in Japan. It's a no brainer why Nissan Leaf are popular in NZ as at $2.35 per lt for petrol ICE car fuel costs are very high! However electricity at least for us is just 10 cents per kWh meaning we are saving NZ$5000 per year just on petrol savings alone based on 500km per week, so as you can see we have almost paid off our purchase price again just on fuel savings, and not including savings on maintenance.
Inexpensive 2nd hand Leafs are in demand for their batteries to be used as cheap powerwalls by enthusiasts. Sell the rest of the car for parts. Money to be made. Hence price has stabilized and gone up recently
A bit naughty with description What you are saying is new electric cars depreciation is massive from new so it’s a bargain to buy secondhand. It has dropped so much to be gain with, there isn’t much more to fall. Yes, I agree. Used Nissan Leaf is an absolute bargain in the uk
New price - the price of a replacement pack - whatever obvious other car related fault= used EV price. Always presume the battery is shot and you wont be cheated. However age is much less relevant for an EV, as other wearing parts have long lifespans, like suspension.
Disagree with more and more chargers being available.....here in Fife anyway. I have to rely on public charging for my Leaf and no new chargers installed locally and the council will not invest because they have no money set aside for near future investment
All the people crying against electric cars have never change oil, replace spark plugs, take down an automatic transmission...simply don't know crab about car mechanics and maintenance...Im a master tech. my brother is Diesel mechanic more than 25 years dealing with engines...we agreed..The electric cars are the future., we can not sustain the gasoline engine for another century.. too many parts, too many components, too much oil and too many technologies just to take from point a to point b.
I agree. I bought a 2014 Nissan leaf Tekna 12000 miles for £9500 December 2016.
Sold it with 17000 miles on clock January 2019 for £10200. Two years driving £700 profit.
the first time I ever made a profit on a car.
My 2.zero LEAF has used £600 in electricity to cover 18000 miles in a year, A fossil car at 46 mpg works out at £1924 approx for the same mileage.
I can off put the £1324 saving against depreciation. It makes the LEAF a better buy than most fossil fuelled cars of a similar size and spec.
The problem with using Auto trader is that it seems to be based on MRRRP, something no one pays. When I went round a few dealers, asking for prices of a variety of cars I found that with the deal I had for the LEAF it was only slightly more expensive than a petrol car.
Barry PURKIS totally agree
is that using 13 to 15p per kw home charging? could reduce it to £200 or less if mainly charged using 5p per kw.
Barry PURKIS absolutely. I only used the Autotrader prices as they were consistent and the figures I had been provided with. That said I didn’t think they were too far off. I’m please your Leaf is working out for you. It can be really difficult to convince ICE owners just how much you can save!
@@EVOpinion indeed. i've finally convinced my dad to buy a EV as his new car. just showed him the savings in fuel. fuel for petrol £1500 vs £150ish for elect. been for a test in a PHEV so far (he enjoyed the electric portion. he wasn't prepared for the instant torque, almost rear ended car in front on dual carriageway). planning on doing test drives for Renualt Zoe 40kWh, 30kWh or 40kWh Leaf and Hyundai ioniq electric. Just started looking into the battery lease vs battery owned Zoe options (90p/m battery lease, 10k miles. works out at £10.8k if car were to be kept for 10 years ). he is still not fully convinced about battery lifespan. He's been keeping cars for at least 12 years (until major aspects require constant fixing). he has had his current car for 13 years, bought car in 2006 two years old. current mileage= 150 200. I took a picture of the readout at 149 999 miles.
@@Michael-qm5yc I did use the day rate of 14 ppkwh, there are off peak rates that do indeed reduce the cost. Many people do not have a suitable meter. As an aside much of my charging is done during sunny times , directly from the sun , very cheap and carbon neutral!, (as at this moment)
Just got rid of my PHEV Outlander and bought a 2015 24Kw Nissan Leaf Accenta for £10500 with a 6.6Kw charger, Reason being can make use of the full range free of charge electricity via my solar panels and got rid of the problem I would have had paying a balloon payment on the PCP on the PHEV. The LEAF is mine and paid for. Planning on getting a V2H (Vehicle to House) unit that makes use of a supply of 240V Ac to the house using the battery power of the LEAF and can be more off grid thus cheaper running costs on my electric bill, this is acheaper option than paying for a Tesla Power Wall. Just changed Electric supplier to Octopus as they have an Electric off peak charging rate of 5p per Kw from 00:30am till 04:30am so if low sun then backup plan in operation.
Janet Morris fantastic set up. You have really though about how to get the most out of that car. I’m jealous!😁👍
Janet Morris
I too charge my car using Economy 7 (midnight to 7am GMT), so around 7p/KWh and that is what makes all the difference between 2p/mile and 5p/mile for peak electricity.
I see you used the hybrid route to full EV too. It is the way to build confidence and burst the bubble myth around “range anxiety” which I call journey planning 😀
Very smart utilization of the technology available - well done Janet
A friend of mine has a Leaf and he's worried the charging port type will be eliminated, so he'll be limited to charge at home. The charging infrastructure sucks and has barely improved in the last 5 years. Why buy into something that's a even more of a hassle?
I bought a Tesla Model X 90D in Oct 2017. Sure it is now worth a lot less, but that's only if I wanted to sell it! It is the best car I have ever owned and I would not be without it. All the others I have owned (MB R class, BMW 5 series and X3, Volvo XC 90) were all feeling very old vehicles within a year with nop updates and very jaded technology, and my Tesla just gets better and better. No other car can say that, so I can confidently say I will never buy another ICE car
David Walley yes!! As you said it only matters if you sell it but why would you 😁👍
About a year ago I thought buying a second had Zoe (ZE40) was the cheaper way to go for a second car... i just couldn't find one, and when i did find a few, it soon dawned on me it was cheaper to buy new, the price of a second hand Zoe was so strong at the time and coupled with all the benefits from the government/Renault etc. made buying a new one the cheaper option!
Quite often case as finance on a used is often way higher than new
For what it's worth, about 18 months ago I started looking in to getting an early Zoe or Leaf. Sadly I haven't got much money so I deciced to leave it a year until the prices were lower. Yup, great plan. The prices for the exact same cars I was looking at 18 months ago are higher now than they were then. So I'm still no nearer having the car I wanted than I was then. On the bright side, if you were forward thinking enough to get one then you actually won on this one. Well done you :)
Great video, totally agree with everything you said. My 3 year PCP is ending in June on my 2016 30kwh Leaf. The mileage agreement was 30,000 over 3 years and the final payment (what they thought it would be worth after 3 years and 30k) is £10,300. I've done 50,000 miles and the same model with similar mileages is going for £11,800 on autotrader. In other words despite having done an additional 20,000 miles my car is worth £1500 more than they predicted. Also as a side note I'm still getting 110 miles on a warm day so have only lost 10 miles range in 3 years and 50k miles so the naysayers who predict massive battery degradation are also wrong.
Just sold my 2016 leaf sv (Canada price in cnd) for $20000 with 100k kms. I paid $27000 after incentives and $4000 cash down. The residual of my loan was $14000. My paiements add up to $14600. Crushing all the numbers put the real depreciation value at $12600 for 100k kms or $0.126 per km. Add the running cost of $0.02 per km the car cost me $0.146 per km. So I made money with my car on the petrol savings alone without adding savings on maintenances and repairs. The person I sold it to will pay his loan with the petrol and bridges tolls savings alone. That makes it virtually a free car compared to running a petrol one.
One factor as to EVs often dismissed: much cheaper to operate! After 5 years of owning a LEAF the savings of fuel return more than any depreciation estimate. Brakes require zero service. ICE brake service are needed at the 25,000 mile mark. Oil, transmission, coolant service: zero. Thanks
Hi Ryan! Great video!
There is a company called ALG.com that specializes in analyzing car depreciation in North America. It is a subsidiary of truecar.com. ALG analyzes a wide variety of macro, industry, and market factors to create the industry's benchmark depreciation forecasts. Instead of the Webby Awards... they have invented something called the Residual Value Awards. It seems like a business to business web site, not directly for consumers. I don't know whether they take the government incentive amount off and work down from there or if they ignore the government incentive?
Will your council allow you to put a couple of 100 watt solar panels on your shed?
Because I wanted to change to a Tesla Model 3, I put my one year old Opel Ampera E with with 15K miles on the odometer for sale. In a month time I got not a single reaction from a prospective ev-owner. However I did receive a small number of bids from car-merchants, varying from €30000 to € 36000. Here in the Netherlands this model costs new with the same specs € 55000 . So that is € 19000 depreciation in one year and what's more: no reaction from private buyers. The Opel Ampera E is actually a very good car with a good range, so I will keep driving it.
I'm seeing the same thing with my LEAF. Two years ago, I bought my 2014 used LEAF for 12,000.00 dollars. Now I'm seeing the same LEAF (or close enough) selling for $15,000.00. So it has appreciated in value... even with more miles on the clock! I'm sure I could sell it today and make a profit if I wanted to. I've never owned a car that appreciated.
I have a 1942 Jeep, it goes up in value every year. First car I ever had that gets worth more as it gets older 😂
@christopher smith Thank you... your ridiculous comment gave me a good laugh. This is priceless :-)
I bought a 2013 Leaf partly on your recommendation, about 5 weeks ago. It's my first EV, and I've wanted an EV for over 10 years. In Australian dollar terms, I paid about what you pay in the UK. Some would say it's a high mileage car..83,000ks.. ( about 50,000 miles) but as far as I'm concerned, because EVs need so little maintenance, it's virtually just "run in". ( That's an antiquated ICE car term). I bought it from a car dealer who imports used cars directly from Japan, so that's looked down upon here, as a "Grey Import". So it wasn't imported by Nissan Australia, so there's no way to claim a replacement battery under warranty. They would just tell me to "Piss Off".. ( A common Australian term meaning to "go away".) I'm finding this car to be amazing, I'm loving it. EVs are in such an infancy stage here in Australia that you can recharge in public charging stations for FREE. I don't know of any Petrol stations ANYWHERE that have a pump that is free to use, free of charge. The short range on my car, around 100ks, is no real problem for me. I'll possibly trade mine in on a car ( an EV) with a battery heat management system in a few years, when my car's value goes up about $5,000 Aust dollars. Hahah... amazing.
Enjoyed the chat and the coffee. I enjoyed a lemon tart too.
Prices are rising simply because of supply and demand as you say. Once Hyundai sort out the battery supply and VW hit the market there will be plenty of Leaf 24s and 30s on the market and that can only be good news.
Michael Goode oooo lemon tart. Very nice 😁👍
I handed back my 22 kWh Zoe March last year. The GFV was £4200. If you wanted to buy it off the forecourt today it would coat you £7450. I wish I'd paid the GFV now. Depreciation what depreciation. There's so much demand prices are appreciating. So long as there are queues to buy the new models, prices will be buoyant.
Greatings from Norway. Some "know it alls" here too claim battery has to be changed after 5 years or 100'km, whichever comes first (end of warranty). Wonder if they also claim the ICE-engine has to be change by end of warranty.. They also claim EV's will be worthless after a few years.
Checked up the usedmarket on Leaf here a few months ago, my -13 Tekna has depriciated about the same as a similiar new-priced ICE.
It must be said though that some fair better and some worse. Ampera-e, some Tesla's and perhaps Ioniq, Kona, e-Niro is, or has been on the usedmarked at higher price than new.
I'd imagine that those last 30kWh Leafs depriciate more because of the new model, and same for Golf, Zoe etc with bigger battery. Also a Golf seems to hold value better than Leaf.
But all in all, what I see here depriciation isn't a bigger concern than with an ICE. The only deviation may be if you're buying a new car and a new model at about the same price is around the corner.
But, that is also true with an ICE..
One of the people on the Renault Zoe group (RZOC) recently had her used Zoe stolen after a short time ownership. Their insurance has paid the market value, as you'd expect. It is reportedly more than they bought the Zoe for.
EV, not a great Speculators tool. But for a while, until supplies come on stream more readily available, there's a chance that the used market prices will super or even hyper inflate beyond all reason!
Recently bought an ex-demo Ioniq EV, Premium SE (top spec). Registered March 2019 (19 plate, so less than a month old). Only 400 miles on it and got it for £4K under the new price. So bargains are out there if you don’t want the very latest model. Lovely car and I’m very happy with it. 👍
Been Watching the used prices of Mercedes B250e closely for a few months as my finance deal ends in June. The prices haven't dropped at all in the last 8 months and typically stay around £16k-£17k. 3 years ago, these cars were being heavily discounted brand new and Mercedes were briefly selling them at £19.5k - £21k. The car we had before this was a Ford BMax Ecoboost titanium, 1.0. Also £19.5k new; after 3 years it was worth about a third of its new value.
Bought my 40kwh leaf last July for €26,000. Had it valued last week.....€23,900. It has 25k km on the dial. Very happy and surprised with current valuation.
In southern California, short-range Leafs (Leaves?), Fiats, Sparks & BMW i3s (less so) are cheap because charging is challenging, and their two new to know what the battery life span is. We won't see this rapid depreciation again, longer-range will work for more people
Tesla's are their own category
You UK situation is so different that USA, especially the NY area. Our gasoline is still so cheap there are no reasons to buy electric. I have 22,000 miles I have put on my smart for two electric. gets to train and back and to work when I can. Got it very cheap and battery is barely 2 years old now, still at 100% health.
I bought my 2015 Nissan Leaf a second hand and it was roughly one third of the original asking price. It had four thousand miles on it and the arranged limitations work for my life style. It was relatively cheap for me, it is now paid off just a couple of years later and because of the solar system on my house and free charging at some of my employment locations the car will pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time. Probably 8 to 10 years I will have offset enough savings in fuel and maintenance cost to entirely pay for the purchase price of the vehicle. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
Another well thought out video. Is there any cake left?
Ian Hamilton no chance 😂🤭
I put aside a budget of £4k for an iMiev/Ion/C-Zero which is what they were going for 18 months ago and now they're going for >£5k. Once some of these suppliers get their production levels ramped up (eNiro, Kona, Model 3) people will start selling their 'stopgap' cars and the prices will level off again. Meanwhile I'm stuck with fossil fuel :-(
Another really good video. One I can relate to. I brought my 2014 leaf in 2017 being 3 years old. Average mileage of 29k. I paid £7,500 for it. Can I buy a three year old leaf at that price today? Not a chance. My car is currently valued at £8,000 with 50k mileage. I wondered why. You have explained this well and I agree with your findings. I wondered if it had a lot to do with battery prices. Even old batteries can be reused. When I looked at a similar car to mine for sale online. It was £9,000 odd. (You only have to check autotrader or eBay)
This is also the same with hybrids. My 2010 auris is worth £1200 more than I paid for it 1 year ago even though I've stuck 25,000 miles on it in the last 12 months. Electric and hybrids have excellent residuals.
@naomisfine Precisely. Haha
Yes, definitely agree about near zero depreciation. I'm saving to buy a 40kWh Leaf, and a car valued in April 2018 at £24k would still be at a similar price today, one year later, even though it has 5-10,000 more miles on the clock! It's great news for when you own one, but not so helpful if you're saving up to buy one!
I enjoy watching you. I purcased a Used 2018 Nissan Leaf SV found one that only had 58 miles on it basically a New car saved around 11000.00 dollars US. I live in Phenix City AL and they charge you more for registration because they lose taxes by you not buying gas.The power Company give you off peak charging discount, also my Company charges it for free.
Randy Cox the wins just keep coming. Well done 😁👍
I bought the "2.Zero"-Edition of the Leaf that was delivered to me in August '18. I paid 31.400EUR an received a state subsidy of 2.000EUR. It's May '19 now, I drove nearly 20.000km and could sell it for more than I paid for it at the moment here in Germany.
I have been following the leaf prices for some time. If you were looking for one pre-2012 you could have picked them up very cheap. But as EV's have become more mainstream they have gone up in price. A similar but less marked was the Prius. They are also very cheap to run and very reliable.
Mid-Atlantic US here. I would say in general EVs hold their value well, with the exception of the Leaf. However recently I've noticed a market correction and used prices have taken a bit of a drop across the board. Older Leafs here are able to be had for around $6k-8k now. Used Model Ss can be had under $30k. I think it's due to Tesla's recent price drops on new vehicles and the availability of the Model 3, especially the Standard range version. Everything else had to get pushed down a bit. Even new Chevy Bolts are going for $32k and again used ones just a year or two old are in the mid to upper $20k range.
I have a small company in the Netherlands and ordered a Hyunday Kona EV on 12th of July 2018. € 45.000 is a huge amount of money, but VAT can be deducted, there is the MIA stimulation (subsidized), taxes are limited, fuel is free (due to my solar panels at home). Economics are positive, but I'm still waiting for the car to come in June 2019 or so. The limited taxes are garanteed for only 5 year, so I already found a buyer for my car in 2024: that is me as a private person (one year befor my pension). So if the car performes well, it does not come on the 2nd hand market... That is not helping the market!
Paul Driesen but you will be very happy 😁
The situation is quite different between the UK and the USA. Here the early Leafs and the BMW i3s are basically unusable because of the poor range, so I don't think there's any price rebound on them. There are many reasons to buy a used Tesla, though, so they don't depreciate as fast as ICE cars. Competitors still aren't making EVs that match or exceed the specs on a 2012 Model S.
Thanks for the information, Ryan. Bubbles burst, sooner or later. This is a bubble. We’ll have an EV for our next car, but we're low mileage (less than 1,600 km / 1,000 miles so far this year), and our small fossil still has a few years of life, so replacing the car would save us nothing right now. For folks in a similar situation, patience should be worthwhile.
This. In Norway electric cars used to retain value very well but can't say it is true any more.
We have a 2013 LEAF purchased for $9100 USD at the beginning of 2018. Now I am buying another one and it's $10,500. My plan is to keep these through the next 4-5 years then buy the first gen of the big car push as used at that time. Ideally a used ID or Model 3 or Y. But I prefer to buy cheap now and wait then hopefully buy cheap again used in the US. I feel like there is a sweet spot for buying used in the US when there are incentives still available on new cars of the same brand.
Shame these cars won't take off here in Australia, we can't shift the towns closer together,the Outback is VAST ,I drive around 300-350mile a day[482-563km] and can't see charging stations being built in the small towns I pass through anytime soon.
I'm not surprised this is happening and if I were in a position to have bought an EV with the tax incentives my state was offering at the time, I would still be smiling all the way to the bank with the amount I would have saved in fuel and maintenance over the past 5 years. I have looked into used and the prices are half of what I paid for my Prius but for model that get under 100 miles. For the car I truly want that ticks all of the boxes... it is more than what I paid for the Prius, yet if I felt comfortable going into a bit of debt for it, I would snatch up a used Tesla without blinking.
Next year in the magic year of "2020" we should see things get better, makers say... we'll see. What I am most happy about is the changes in laws, zones, minds and supply that shows that we have begun to go over the tipping point of ICE being dominant in the very near future.
D R-K we are all hoping 2020 will be the year but we ha e been disappointed before. That said we are definitely moving in the right direction 😁👍
I've just done some rough calculation. My LEAF was £24000 new, I save £1324 a year in fuel against a petrol car. Using the average lifetime of a car in the UK as 11 years. (MOT records). over 11 years I will save £14564 , putting my net depreciation from new at a total of £9436. Of course the depreciation of a 'cheaper' fossil car is the total price from new, So depending on the make and model you will lose a bucketful of money. (A Dacia at £15000+ by the time you raise the spec from basic dire? )
Really interesting discussion, we’ve gone back to owning an EV having just bought a used Zoe and our buying ‘train’ was essentially what you describe it think it’s called the Zero moment of truth when we realised the deal being offered fitted what we wanted exactly. Interesting to note we are thinking of switching out our long range ICE for a Tesla but we are waiting for the model 3 to arrive to see if this knocks the prices down for used S & X models, what do you think ?. Maybe another coffee and blog theme !
Steven Barrett I think once the dust settles on the price announcement we will see. I think I need to drive it before I can say anything about it 🤔😉
With electric cars, if they are made right, there is basically a cap on depreciation.
In a petrol car, the vehicle will eventually hit a point where it's useless to perform repairs because between the engine, transmission and differential(s) you will spend the entire time you own it chasing your tail with repairs.
This isn't the case with an EV. The drive train consists of less than half a dozen moving parts. They have traded mechanical complexity for technological complexity... and let's face it... after a car has $80,000 miles on it the electronics that are still alive are unlikely to fail any time soon.
Tesla gave it's early customers, prior to 2016, an additional perk in that free supercharging follows those vehicles. This was a wonderful perk for the early adopters.
So if you buy a second hand 85-90kwh Tesla S or X you may spend $60,000 or so on it but you will still be getting great value for the money. Even if that vehicle has high mileage.
I'm running a tech channel and I'm looking to upgrade my Tesla S for no other reason than to update to a car with full self driving. My car has a little over 100,000 miles on it and anyone purchasing this car second hand can drive it with confidence that it's mechanically just as sound as it was when I bought it.
Tesla even gave these cars an 8 year unlimited mile warranty on both battery and drive train. So there is even still 4 years left on that warranty.
I think this really is going to usher in a whole new way of thinking about these cars. Especially once they start to drive themselves.
Hi. Just subscribed to your channel. Great video! I ordered my e-nv200 business edition 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately I have to wait 7 months for the car to arrive! Until then i'll be burning up more petrol and not saving on costs. As for chargers, here in the Netherlands we have a big network, so the change of running out of "fuel" is not an issue.
Richards Gameplay you are very lucky there. Keep an eye on the channel as I’m planning a e nv200 test drive soon. Thank you for the sub😁👍
Bought my 40kwh env200 3 months ago. Feeling pretty smug 😎
I do agree with you. I am relocating to Ireland and looking for cleaner and more efficient options for mobility. I think the next 5-10 years will be a defining moment in EV history.
Another great video, thank you.
Few people want a 1st gen EV, so they are probably worth little. 2nd gen EV's are much more usable, so are attractive to buy, which raises their price. In the Netherlands few 2nd hand EVs are available and most have been in lease, so are at least 4 years old, which is kind of 1 st gen still...
I’m thinking of getting a 2015 used Leaf but I’m a little worried that the car will depreciate really heavily after this age as the car battery ages and it’s useful range drops. Does this make any sense? I would plan to keep the car 3-5 years and would like if the car had some value at the end of this.
Also the videos have been great for someone like me just starting to figure it out. Thanks evopinions!
My Leaf has covered 75000 miles now. I haven't has any issues with it and have saved a fortune. I think it's like any car. If you buy new it will depreciate heavily. Second hand will find a good deal. The demand is still strong for all EVs so I wouldn't worry too much.
About battery degradation rather than depreciation- hope that's ok! We bought a second hand 2012 24kw Nissan Leaf from a Nissan dealership in February 2017 with 9000miles on the clock, and 12 battery bars. As of today, we have 10 bars, SOH 77%. We were wondering if you knew anything about the Nissan battery replacement scheme (cost, battery type, etc.). Do you know if a Nissan refurbished battery programme is due to become available in the UK? Considering the rising prices of EVs, is it worth doing a battery replacement, or would it make more sense to buy a new/second hand when the range falls below tolerable levels?
Just coming to the end of my 3 year pcp on a 30Kw Leaf. Balloon payment of £10k to keep the car, which is worth about £14k. No brainer!!
Great episode. It further confirms buying an EV is the right move.
What is your opinion looking at two leafs 14 plate with 24 kwh 52.000 on clock teckna £8600 or 16 plate teckna 30 kwh 55.000 on clock £10.500 they seem good value with these mileage s
I am on my second second hand low mileage EV. I sold my 21013 Ford Focus EV for $800.00 over value and purchased my 2015 Soul EV for $1500.00 under value. As a bonus I later discovered that the Soul had it’s main traction battery replaced in February of 2018 sooo...
I believe the rapid development of technology in EVs is helping to create 2nd hand bargains. For example, I chose to buy a 3 year old 22Kw Zoe, knowing full well a 40Kw version was now available. That 60-90 mile range for the 22Kw version is perceived as a major drawback, but armed with a home charger, it is absolutely fine for 95% of the motoring we do as a family. That meant I got a bit of a bargain and the car is now worth about £1k more than I paid for it 8 months ago.
I do wonder if the depreciation of new EVs will level out (meaning PCP costs should go down), once the rate of development of technology starts to level off?
Andrew E I’m sure it will but at the moment that development doesn’t seem to be slowing down 🤔
That Leaf valuation seems a bit of a joke to me. Over £10k for a 2014 Leaf with a tiny battery? Hell no.
I'm sure £10k is reasonable given the state of the used market, but I would never pay that much for a first-generation, short-range EV.
Frankly, I'd rather stick with ICE until the market adjusts than spoff money on an ancient Leaf. It holds value now, but as soon as supply picks up it'll shed value like crazy. It's not a desirable car in the lustworthy sense - there's nothing desirable about its archaic tech, short range or its Platypus face. It's simply available and "good enough" for impatient switchers.
It is annoying, though. I'm eager to ditch the ICE completely but I'm not going to throw money away on compromised options like Leaf to make it happen sooner. I'd suggest anyone considering an old Leaf hold off, keep saving and see what options are on the market in 2020 :-)
Aaronage or you could wait for some more scrappage schemes to become available again. If they ever do. We paid £7600 for our 2014 Tekna beck in September 2017. That was £2000 off the screen price plus the value of our old banger. 80 miles range has never been an issue for us. We use the car over our Outlander PHEV. Unless we need to tow the caravan of course. The Outlander does my daily commute perfectly. My wife has the Leaf for her commute.
I really enjoy your channel. Keep the content coming! I live in Alberta, Canada and the EV infrastructure and even access to EVs is limited in comparison to the UK. I too am interested in a pre-owned EV (BMW i3 would be my first choice), but I am going to have to wait another year or two for better inventory to chose from. Already have solar panels...just need the EV to go with it!
This next week and a half is so important for future pricing for EV’s in the Uk, Model 3 and VW ID is being released for order if the ID is cheap (circa £27k) it will make the other manufactures question their pricing. VW has capacity for 330k ID’s per annum (hoping they have the batteries available) so should be plenty to go around 🙏🏻
This is probably a specific effect in the UK as prices of new cars have risen due to the dropping pound. And used car prices are always in relation to a new car.
Lucky you...in my country a Nissan Leaf bought for around 20-30,000 eu, afte 50,000km and 4 years of ae usually worth around under 10.000eu....
First of all, thank you for posting this video. There is a lot of very interesting information to consider. I'm sorry if I am asking an obvious question but I am looking to buy a used Teckna in the next few months and wondered what your opinions are on buying a used Leaf with regards to a private sale and dealer sale.
smartassan I would be confident either way but I would invest in an OBD2 and LeafSpy to check the battery condition 😁👍
@@EVOpinion Thank you and thank you for this channel. All of your videos are clear and concise with a lot of useful information.
All this will come to an abrupt and very expensive end when international/ EU law makes Lithium and Cobalt mining, use and disposal a very expensive thing. How many EV salespeople have you met who could hold a discussion about Artisan Cobalt mining in West African countries eg DRC? ‘The Environment’ is a two way street.
Batteries can be recycled but petroleum cannot. Petroleum also costs money to produce.
If carry on doing what we have always done, we will get what we have always got - declining climate change - personally, I very much like the idea of being able to breathe, and for my grandchildren to be able to breathe.
The issues in mining these materials needs to be addressed also. Like the oil industry has a great track record too when it comes to how people are treated and exploited; and wildlife when it comes to that - I can remember he Torrey Canyon and the Exxon Valdiz for heck’s sake.
Use google earth to explore oil extraction impact on a global scale - compare that to the size of current lithium and cobalt extraction Also look into the latest battery tech like this example - www.baselarea.swiss/baselarea-swiss/channels/innovation-report/2019/04/innolith-makes-breakthrough-in-vehicle-batteries.html
Excellent analysis. However, despite what you say I heard that there are a lot of new cars being released in 2020, so if could hold on till then (or 2021) it might be better to get a 2nd (or new) EV then... the 2nd hand prices ought to drop again; and if buying new, should get better value for money with the new tech.
The only reason for EV’s holding their price recently is down to supply issues affecting the new car market. The big elephant in the room is battery longevity. Batteries don’t last forever. My phone is only a few years old and already holds less charge than new. As a car battery deteriorates the vale will plummet. The battery is the major cost in these vehicles and replacement will be prohibitively expensive. You would have to be insane to buy an older EV. They are essentially a chuck away item presenting a recycling nightmare. Car manufacturers are milking this inferior tech prior to launching the far more sustainable Hydrogen tech as tested successfully in California many years ago then shelved in order to profit from the questionable impractical Electric options prior to unleashing Hydrogen. (Think Cassette tapes vs CDs) Don’t be fooled buyer beware!
Very informative as usual. Would you be able to cover something on extended warranty options?
Ben Freeth I will look into it 👍
I bought a used leaf 5 months ago and it's worth more now.
Second hand EV's seem expensive in March 2021. On the one hand there is the pandemic , ev's dont seem to be selling, but the prices are still high. With the supply of many more affordable new EV's in the pipeline is now the time to buy something like a relitavely short range 28KWH Hyundai Ioniq when market changes could soon make these seem outdated?
Thanks again for a well researched piece on EV depreciation. Factors such as the Low Emissions zone in London and potential future restrictions on diesel use in cities will affect used EV pricing but these effects tend to be localised. A friend of mine is an Economics professor who could explain what is really going on here but within a few minutes of him starting to talk... I’m lost! The ups and downs of second hand pricing suggests insufficient information to determine what he calls ‘reputational pricing’..think back to when the Toyota Prius was new to the market their 2nd hand values were all over the place until a few million of them were on the road and drivers had 10 years experience of them. By then there was data showing that the traction batteries didn’t fail after a few years and were in fact very durable. Read ‘Sapiens’ by Yuval Noah Harari, nothing in there about cars!!..he’s a social anthropologist but the text explains very well how things sink into the 'social consciousness’ until ‘EV’s are simply better cars and of course they are more expensive second hand’...becomes COWDUNG (Conventional Wisdom of the Dominant Group) ....I don’t make ‘em up, really I don’t!
Kia e-Niro Diaries I love a good acronym!
As you said cleaver people than me can explain the economics behind it but I think the facts are the interesting part and if you own an EV great news 😁👍
Wait until model 3 hits the roads and see the prices of all other models going down. I've been following Norwegian used market for buying one (mostly Hyundai Ioniq). The cars which used to cost 250k kr two months ago are now going for 220k or less. Supply and demand is big factor. There is enough demand for EVs and the ability of companies to roll out EVs in scale will have a huge impact. Tesla can almost do that. Volkswagen with their ID models will get there soon. Massive depreciation is to be expected unless there is any intervention in the form of government incentives/polices around ICE & EVs.
I guess it really depends on your location. There are used 50+ leafs and 20+ i3's available from dealers withing 50 miles of where I am. A lot of them are pretty cheap too.
New technology takes awhile to really take hold. When there are as many Evs on the road as there are petrol vehicles it will become "normal". It took awhile for the first automobiles to overtake the horse and buggy. Same idea here.
Once again I say to come to the middle of the US. Around here I can still find 2016 leafs with less than 25,000 miles for $9,400 USD or around 7,300 pounds. I almost never see prices go back up and when they do it's not for very long. Used electric cars here are not nearly as popular as the public opinion of them is still quite low due to the range being inadequate for many peoples needs. For example I have to drive a minimum of 50 mi. round trip to visit some of my friends, most of my family is around 130 mi. round trip and doing that in the current used market is still a challenge. It's also not uncommon for my family to do 350 mile trips to see family usually limited on time so only a Tesla could work for our family (would still be inconvenient) because the charging infrastructure is not yet available in these areas.
Just traded my 2015 24kw Leaf for a new 40kw 2019 Leaf. In 2 years of ownership it only lost a grand. Paid eleven five traded for ten five. Least ive ever lost on a car! In fact i was only browsing until they offered me a new Tekna for mine and 17k!
I am wanting to buy soon but the prices are way to high. Do most people have 30k to spend on a car? I am waiting for the Mg ezs and hopefully a reasonable price.
That's the one I'm waiting for
Well, I noticed most latest release electric cars are luxury cars with luxury price tags, so I guess that manufacturers have analysed that people are will to spend big on electric cars. But, not me ...
All the dealers have finance plans, so pay for it one piece at a time - the 30k takes longer to pay off but the car payment plus electricity will still be less than the gas/diesel you buy each month right now
@@tinaturner5186 Yes but at 30k you still need a large deposit and quite a hefty monthly payment. You also have to balance this extra payment against the cost of an ICE and petrol. I know not just about the money but for many it is. ICE still way cheaper thats why I imagine lots dont go to EV.
mark bainton
Maybe the maths doesn’t work for you, and the dealers would take your ICE as part of the deposit too.
For me, I was spending £480 pcm on diesel. For my EV, the repayments AND the electricity running costs come to just under £470 pcm.
Two and a half years later, car paid for, running costs £40 pcm, and 37,000 miles down the road.
The total cost of ownership just gets better for every day.
On topic, my EV has depreciated about £6,000 since I bought it. I knew it would too. The model was superseded with a higher range/ bigger battery model around the time I bought it - it was a demo model so it was already somewhat discounted.
Stepping away from the £30,000 figure then, look at the used market - BMW i3 REX circa £18,000 ~ 20,000 miles - a better place to start and within reach of a bank car loan with your ICE as a deposit.
What's the cost of full battery replacement after several years and then include depreciation? 🤔 You left out the most important parameter. Worthless in my opinion. In fact it'll cost money to dispose of the ev after 8 years due it's toxic waste it contains.
Do you think recently introduced government subsidies will cause used vehicles to drop in price? Canada's $5,000 subsidy came into effect yesterday. Catch-22 indeed!
Noel Dillabough subsidies are interesting. There is no doubt they help but as we’ve seen in the UK they have recently reduced but the cost of cars has increased!
Supply verses demand with demand being driven by taxation and fossil fuel costs, particularly in big cities. At present supply is restricted and taxation is ever punitive. As fossil revenues decline then EV's will attract taxation as an absolute certainty but at present the playing field is slanted. Post Brexit trade deals could of course unlock a tidal wave of supply. You pays your money and take your chance.
What's the incentive to gas stations offering electric charging when they are trying to sell gas?
Zarnticolz Rum the mark up on fuel is minimal so they try to entice customers to buy in the shops. EV drivers are a captive audience all to willing to buy a cup of coffee!
I helped a friend buy a six month old Peugeot ion for under 12k this comes with an 8 year 60k battery warranty plus the remainder of the warranty on the car, mileage under 1k. This will be used as there second car 12 miles to work etc and at the moment a nearby free 22k charger at a lidle they also got a free charge point at home 4 years ago when the gov were subsidising them.at the moment they spend £100 per month in petrol in there 2nd car. What impressed then about the ion on there first test drive was its acceleration! There are a few of these cars being sold now if you look on auto trader I think they are a great investment no battery lease! And chademo What do you think.
Just wondering have you changed your 1st Generation Leaf yet?? If not and are considering buying 2nd generation leaf, that would make for an excellent video. Love your video’s, keep up the good work 👍🏻
Brian j thank you. I haven’t changed it yet. I am considering a 30kwh one but it all depends on how much I can find one for🤔
Planning to buy a Hyundai Ioniq EV. As far as I can tell so far there isn't much difference in price between used and new, although not sure either about any waiting list or how long is it to get a new one? Anyone with any info on that?
Krisztián Kőrösi yes the residuals on the Ioniq are really strong. You will be lucky to get a used one under £21k. But they do pop up now and again. Not many on the market sadly. Great car though and super efficient.
the price of hyundai have risen to lower demand!----------a great marketing idea!--------bet you will wait two years to get one in your chosen colour and spec!j
But? The 2011/2022 Nissan Leaf are depreciating rapidly, due to the older battery degrading quicker than the newer ones
Can you buy the new shape Nissan leaf anywhere for £19000, I do not like zoe too small and earlier leafs that's as much money as I can get together.
kevin ambrose not that I’ve seen I’m afraid ☹️
Good video Ryan, a topic very relevant to me. 13/14 months ago I was due to take delivery of a Nissan 2.Zero but cancelled when Rapidgate hit the UA-cam channels as my use case involved making 260 mile same round trips 10 to 12 times a year and 4 times a year 500 mile round trips so quite regular Rapid Charging. The charging profile has now been addressed by Nissan but today if I want to buy a used 2.Zero I would need to part with £2-£3,000 at my local Nissan dealer. However this is still about £5,000 less than the money i will be spending in about 2 months time when I take delivery of a Kia eNiro as I have a deposit on a First Edition eNiro. But here is the question. Since Leaf 2.Zero would meet my needs and have have a range equivalent to Robert Llewellyn's (and my) balder range should I sell the eNiro when I take delivery and look for Leaf 2018 with software patch thereby avoiding the initial depreciation on the eNiro, because since Kia aren't even accepting orders on the eNiro until 2020 surly I won't lose on the Kia?
I just received a Ford Mondeo 2.0 diesel. Nice car but I'd rather have second hand ev than a brand new ICE. It's a company car and the only say I had was the colour.
Actually "new" Leaf, eNiro and Kona electric have INCREASED in price - some that have been bought late 2018 are now being sold for MORE than original purchase price even with a few thousand miles on the clock.
I definitely get the impression that we are in a transitional period, and prices of used vehicles are going up because many are dipping their toes into the EV pool by starting out with a used car.
Søren Bartels Rasmussen and as more become available that is only going to get better 😁👍
And how much does a new battery pack cost.....after how many charges must you get new batteries?
Etienne 777 my Leaf is about to hit 50k and still over 90% SOH so don’t worry. Look at the warranties being offered with new EVs. The manufacturers are confident in their product.
Who cares. They will be 5 times cheaper in 5 years anyway. Some of them are even under warranty for 8 years.
I’m a original EV owner (2011).Yes for the last six years EVs have deprecated, but now things have changed.
I think you are right and wrong at least on Japanese and UK cars 24kwh Nissan Leaf.
We can import them from the UK and Japan or any right hand drive country. We also have a Japanese imported 2014 we also brought it in 2016 we paid NZ$18k which lost the huge deprecation from new.
However you are 100% correct on second hand 24kwh Leaf as 3 years later our 2014 Leaf are still selling for NZ$18k-$20k so it's 3 years older yet still the same price or higher.
They are everywhere here mostly in blue color, must of been a very popular colour in Japan.
It's a no brainer why Nissan Leaf are popular in NZ as at $2.35 per lt for petrol ICE car fuel costs are very high!
However electricity at least for us is just 10 cents per kWh meaning we are saving NZ$5000 per year just on petrol savings alone based on 500km per week, so as you can see we have almost paid off our purchase price again just on fuel savings, and not including savings on maintenance.
WOW!!! Thanks for the good news associated with env200, perhaps people are beginning to realize that EV's are cheaper to run on a day to day basis.
Inexpensive 2nd hand Leafs are in demand for their batteries to be used as cheap powerwalls by enthusiasts. Sell the rest of the car for parts. Money to be made. Hence price has stabilized and gone up recently
A bit naughty with description
What you are saying is new electric cars depreciation is massive from new so it’s a bargain to buy secondhand. It has dropped so much to be gain with, there isn’t much more to fall.
Yes, I agree. Used Nissan Leaf is an absolute bargain in the uk
there are pretty many BMW i3 on the market with little mileage, and about 50% of the new price. Sounds like a great deal
Anyone wants Beverly in another 3 years can have her as Bruce once said if the price is right ;)
Here in Florida it's possible to find Model S Tesla cars in the mid $30,000 range.
How old, miles etc?
New price - the price of a replacement pack - whatever obvious other car related fault= used EV price. Always presume the battery is shot and you wont be cheated. However age is much less relevant for an EV, as other wearing parts have long lifespans, like suspension.
Lovely Spark and Volt mug. I have the same one ❤️👍
Disagree with more and more chargers being available.....here in Fife anyway. I have to rely on public charging for my Leaf and no new chargers installed locally and the council will not invest because they have no money set aside for near future investment
All the people crying against electric cars have never change oil, replace spark plugs, take down an automatic transmission...simply don't know crab about car mechanics and maintenance...Im a master tech. my brother is Diesel mechanic more than 25 years dealing with engines...we agreed..The electric cars are the future., we can not sustain the gasoline engine for another century.. too many parts, too many components, too much oil and too many technologies just to take from point a to point b.
If they arent worth anything then why cant I find a cheap used one.