Regents Park's Bike Problem | Can we make big groups safer?
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Another morning up in London and joining the crews out for an early morning spin.
I met some friends at 6:30am to do 30 mins of cycling before joining the PSCC for their Thursday Laps.
I want to start by saying that this is most definitely one of the best places to do this, the other being Richmond Park especially on the closed road section. However, this is still a public road and im opening up a conversation about road safety and big groups.
These feel like a great chance to help cyclists learn, there shouldn't be an expectation of knowledge and we should be helping keep our own cycle communities safe. Regents Park is a very safe place to ride like this, but the problem i feel might be that we are not helping the situation between cars and cyclists. A motorist might not feel too put off by going a few mph slower around regents but out on the open road on another occasion their discontent might manifest itself in a 'close pass', whether intentional or not.
Come join the conversation- no one is on blast here but i know Regents Park is the scene for some cyclists to film and capture footage of car drivers misbehaving. So perhaps theres a small conversation to be had about cyclists doing their bit to keep things amicable.
I also think that the law is rather ambiguous but the one thing that is clear is that the law wants to make cyclists give way to motor vehicles 'when safe to do so'.
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My mum always said i shouldnt judge anyone or what they do without examining myself and what i do. I say this because you making judgements about others but there you are riding around with your phone in your hand, often mid group or, as at the end on the outside of 2 riders (one of the very things you complain about), talking, not really paying attention, (you cannot pay attention for reasons psycologists have known for years) and presenting a risk to all around you. Only the other day you posted a video where, talking to your phone (?) in your hand, you had to slow and stop talking to turn a corner. Near the end of this video you ride, a brompton rider behind you, camera up and take a turn across the road. Yet you are judging others? You make some valid points, especially re jumping the red light. but they are undone by your own behaviour. FWIW as a 61y old male, i ride Regents a lot, mainly Z2 work, and rarely feel troubled by other cyclists riding faster than me, or in bigger groups. There is little traffic even once the gates are opened. There has been well documented conflict but havent seen it. I get frustrated with some of the red light jumping cyclists. But, honestly, not the groups riding 3/4 abreast and as i say i havent seen any conflict with other faster paced cyclists or drivers as a result. Again, FWIW i hate cyclists holding their phones/camers outstretched riding and talking-if i see you doing it in RP i will say something! Even though it may not be illegal. Have you reached out to the ride leader to see what they have to say about your observations? If not perhaps you should have done before posting? Just a thought. Love the rest of your videos.
A beautifully detailed analysis
Way too much whining, just like the guy in the video. This is the problem with the world today, all of you that are offended by literally everything. Reread your entire paragraph of complaints and realize how much energy you wasted getting upset over NOTHING. If you want to get upset about something, get upset about something that actually matters, like global politics, etc.
@@roadcyclist1good point well made sir ❤
I understand that in making these videos I open myself up to these types of comments and I’m really glad that myself and your mum agree on something. I quite literally mention exactly that point about me riding and filming.
I also think you bring up some excellent examples of how I can cycle, film and pay attention.
Stopping to film to turn a corner quite simple displays excellent situational awareness, I’ve decided to film on a long straight road with good visibility, I’m literally presenting and still have the situational awareness to realise my viability is about to reduce drastically as I go round a corner so I make not only the decision to prepare for that I quite literally excuse myself while filming to do it. You’ve literally highlighted exactly a moment of great situational awareness while presenting.
Similar with the Brompton rider- I haven’t rewatched it but please do count and let me know how many times I shoulder check while filming, and then, while riding and presenting I verbally indicate my intention to turn right.
I understand the generational difference and the perception of technology but thank you for highlighting these moments. You’ll also often notice I’m filming from the back of a group and never during high speed close group moments. Much like when you take a drink from your bidon or pull a gel from your back pocket.
I think you might think I’m concentrating on the screen in front of me, there is no screen. It’s a little
Black box my eye line is always on the road and as you yourself have explained, I access the situation and don’t film if the situation might be deemed dangerous. Thank you 🙏🏻
@@thewattlife My reply just dissapeared... I am not watching the video again! I have no reason to question your general riding. To quote @roadcyclist1 there are more important things to get engaged with. but... please don't mistakenly use my observations to explain what you did in this video and other videos. You didnt stop in the other video i mentioned-you carried on arm outstretched, i think , but certainly with the camera in hand. You did stop talking. The idea you can concentrate fully when holding a camera/phone, filming and talking, whilst on the road, in a group or alone etc is fanciful, black box of otherwise. In hand phone use is now an offence while driving and that is because of the impact on concentration. Obviously a phone using cyclist is less of a risk than a motorist but the irony of you filming and talking in the ways i described whilst criticising others is what piqued my interest as someone who rarely posts on social media of any kind. If i see you in RP riding and talking to a camera/phone with outstretched hand i will still say something :)You ever watch Hill Street Blues? At the beginning of the shift the lieutenant would tell the cops about to go on duty ..."lets be careful out there" . Probably something our mums might say too.
Very well said. Being considerate and courteous solves most problems on the road.
Ive been riding most of my life and am 61 now. Rode to work as an apprentice plumber in London to save money. Many cyclists are arrogant. Mainly due to lack of being shown/taught what is road etiquette. As for going thru a red light, I'd ask what would you like car drivers to do at red lights? Here in France single file is done on busier roads. Double is the max allowed. And we reserve that for the quieter roads and lanes. A shout goes up of ''car behind'' to give riders a chance to tuck in. The organisers of that group around Regents Park ought to have a pre ride talk every now and again to remind folks of other roads users etc.
Bunch riding is over rated and at times dangerous. After experiencing a crash, i ride solo now and find it much more enjoyable. Miss the group cafe stop chats but that's the price i pay for a safe ride.
I absolutely love bunch riding and riding with groups, I might have gone a bit ott on this video but having a few rules to follow allows other people to anticipate how groups will move and react
Me too. I don't want to join a group either. I prefer to ride solo. I also don't drink coffee. 😎
@@fionaslife ditto 👍
You're not quite right. I don't know how often you use Regents Park, but there are very few who jump red lights, it's generally frowned upon by most other riders. Groups join and split, large groups are not the norm, again I don't think you have enough data to come to any conclusion, making one visit...only tells you; on that day, on that hour I witnessed a lot of large groups. The larger groups tend to be faster and can ride at 20mph comfortably, so they're not holding anyone up. If riders are ex club cyclists or current members of a club, they will have a very good idea of riding protocols, clubs, riders generally understand. If a large group forms, and it's a bit disjointed, drop out of the group, it's that easy, other riders are well aware of poorly disciplined cyclists, there's usually the odd one in every club....
Personally, I think you make valid points and bring up the correct concerns. I believe there is an onus on cyclists to have awareness on the road and not treat the rules/laws as if they don't apply to them. I too have seen far too many people ignore red lights, cross walks, etc. and just blow through. And then they wonder why other motorists hate cyclists! SMH. Now I am lucky to live in Washington state which very bike friendly; so much so that bikes are allowed to blow through a stop sign without stopping, IF there are no other cars or risks. Too many people just say screw it a blow through any time.
As large groups, we owe it to our own safety and the general safety of everyone around us to be aware and respectful of sharing the road. Whilst we are a vehicle, we do not carry the same "weight" as others and need to acknowledge that if you play stupid games, you will win stupid prizes.
120% agree with you. Well most of us try… there are groups of cyclists out there and clubs that give us a bad rep, and then we wonder why cars hates cyclists. Not a popular topic. Thanks for raising for awareness.
As a cyclist who drives I also see both sides. I don't live in London, however I have an issue with groups rides and double up rides when: You are on a country lane for example. Round here where I live I have had many occasions where I have actually had to pull over and stop, because of cyclists riding two up or as a group coming towards me, and not giving a toss. That annoys me, especially as they do not even acknowledge the fact that they just made you pull over and stop so they did not have to reposition to single file. This is the primary reason I will not join any clubs or group rides around where I live.
Riders/Cyclist riding at 15/20K an Hour, and Stopping for a Scone and a Coffee with Friends… Just Loves Cycling for what it is 👍🚴♀️🥰🚴♀️🚴♂️🥰… As a Racer (exracer), those Riding at 40k++++ an Hour, are/is another Group… They are Thinking that if “Life” didn’t get in the way… They should/would be in the Tour de France… They never Smile, run Stop Signs, cross the Yellow line, and at every Opportunity will ATTACK the Group to try and show how Fast they are … They have their place… But just be ready for it, and either You like it, or you hate it 🤔🤞🚴♂️🚴♀️🚴♂️
I really want to join some group rides, never been on group park laps or any road bike group rides before.
I don't know the etiquette is or what the signals mean.
Im used to riding by myself and absolutely sending it every where I go 😂
Your next video should be "A beginners guide to group ride etiquette". Or you can make a video where you teach me 😅
You raise a key issue. Perhaps less experienced riders there don’t see the issue and need educating? The best solution is for all road users to integrate. Mass unorganised groups jumping red lights are not part of the solution. This behaviour is not limited to Regents Park, it’s evident on the London side of Surrey every weekend, annoying car drivers and cyclists like myself. Thanks for raising it.
I must say I have really enjoyed your videos till now. I defo agree running red lights etc are unacceptable and highlighting some negative points around riding, however this video seems to have been a pure moan for 20 odd minutes. Hopefully we get back to your norm after this video!!
Regular viewing will resume today
Definitely agree with the negatives in the group cultures, running reds especially. Been on some ace group rides recently with people introducing themselves and wanting to chat which has been ace. But not tucking in, riding 3 abreast and not narrowing out is apparent in groups of 20+ i've noticed.
Great video again max, can't comment on londons situation , Glasgow hasn't got any where near as many cyclists. Main problem wr have is here is just eat etc, bombing through lights and mounting pavements . Cyclists especially is riding fast in groups by other slower ones. Just need to be respectful , we ain't pros on a race. Rp does look great to cycle. Thanks again 👌
Good points and well made. There is a big difference between bunch riding and group riding. RP can be very chaotic at times.
Agree whole heartedly. The cyclists rode as a mass. Difficult to pass even for other cyclists.I can't understand cyclists riding through red lights.Why would you think that's OK. Just stop. The conversation is simple ride responsibly it's a life saver.
First of all great video. I agreed with a lot of your points. The way I see it is that safety and etiquettecy is the most important. Cyclists already have a bad rep with other road users and pedestrians and most of the time it is just a couple of cyclists making bad decisions but to have a whole group do it makes things so much worse. I'm sure that all of those cyclists you saw in that social ride that day are competent on the bike, but just because it's social, doesn't mean we should simply 'switch off' and forget how we conduct ourselves on the road. My cycling group tend to have no more than 10-12 in a group to mitigate things like this from happening as well as having group skills sessions 1-2 a month to keep us sharp for when we ride longer distances.
Another brilliant Watt life upload ❤
Riding in London gives you a look into what people are doing in their cars. For every cyclist i see jumping a red light, i see 5 drivers looking at their phones.
That doesnt justify cycling around holding and talking to a camera though.
The comment about the topless dude made me laugh... Coming from a guy who loves to broadcast himself to the world cycling topless... It's always somebody else. 😂
I’m all for topless running, didn’t expect to see it in Autumn in the rain at 7:10am
@@thewattlife
Me too. Are we officially calling it Autumn now? 😭 When was summer? 🤔
Great bakery! Totally agree that going through red lights is irresponsible. As a cyclist I have this talk with non cyclists in my office on a regular basis. 🤷🏾♂️ Enjoying your blog 😊
Some good points made. Regents/Richmond/The Lanes etc, if we’re(roadies)using them we definitely need to be aware of etiquette.
Say what you will about Rapha and the RCC, the Ride Leader program for clubhouse organised rides really does work - briefings and adherence to the ‘rules’ is really emphasised. They also run Saturday lunchtime ‘intro to group ride sessions’ to teach the skills to beginners.
Great video though - I appreciate the critical thinking in this episode.. 🙏🏽
Spot on re group size and the need for an element of ride discipline. Not rigid structure or ‘rule’ enforcement, but more the understanding that large packs of cyclists spread across the lane is frustrating & intimidating for other road users.
It’s bad enough as a fellow cyclist trying to work out what these groups are going to do next, let alone being a driver or pedestrian.
I do enjoy these videos, but hope you make more use of the non hand held footage. It does make me a bit uncomfortable.
It's the old catch 22 thing. We want more people to get out cycling, get off car use etc but then in big cities there's limited space and with so many big groups plus motorists on same roads there will be be issues. Add in those cyclists that habitually jump red lights etc and it's no wonder there is conflict. We always get the old cliche that car drivers come across as entitled but far too many cyclists are as well unfortunately. Riding 4 or 5 abreast only winds up other road users I think.
Strong video as always - agree with your honest view! 👌
Unrelated topic as haven’t ridden in the UK for a few years.
When did people stop wearing gloves?
You only crash once without gloves… madness
Gloves aren’t cool at the moment
No skin on your hands id say is less cool 😂
I saw someone wearing a cool pair today but they were full finger gloves. But yes, I don’t think they are ‘in vogue’ atm on the cycle scene.
Valid comments on the group size. Good clubs, even informal ones will limit numbers. That was not a group ride it looked like organised chaos. It’s that style of riding that makes drivers mad and there’s no need for it.
Bollocks with drivers. Who cares what makes them mad so long as the cyclists ride respecting the traffic rules.
RP defo has a bike issue it's absolutely mayhem on a nice day. Totally lawless out there haha. I ride bikes but its chaos
Ive done mornings where we lap the other way around and its a lot more chilled haha
Very Good Points indeed you make ! Well done for raising the issue
Seems to be a general problem the sport has just grown people are coming in with expensive kit top bikes & often fit from using home training apps like Zwift etc - but across the board riding standards are dropping & yes the traditional old style club culture seems to have gone 😢
Our sport got to big to popular sad to say that
I agree with every thing that you have said, I'm a member of a large cycle club and safety is no 1, Going through red lights, may be a reason cyclist get a bad vibe, understandably so.
Anyone can get on two wheels turn up and have zero group riding skills, very dangerous.
We as cyclists have to take more sole responsibility.
Your spot with advice riding in groups great content as usual.
it all starts from cyclists not coming through the club system , nowadays there are a lot of people with expensive bikes and no knowledge , ffs , just look at the people on that video
We do what we want
@@TBat0431 some training and sense
@@TBat0431 exactly the problem
This.
Love the videos, what wall bike holder do you have in house ?
It’s Absolute Black. Believe it’s being released next week. I’ve put a light on it 👌🏻
Great video and 100% agree. Cyclists need to take responsibility themselves. Puresport in particular have a bad rep, even at battersea park athletics track they go round thinking they own the place. Accident waiting to happen with their reckless cycling
Great video. Where I live (Aberdeen) I don’t see too many other cyclists on my bike commute. However the main issue up here is the “gig economy” Deliveroo/ Just Eat riders racing through red lights on unrestricted e-bikes at 30mph and not peddling! But that’s maybe another video??
I dont live in London so my city urban cycling days arent too often, luckily i havent had to commute in the mass delivery era but i can imagine its changed the game of city cycling. I dont think thats a problem that will ever be solved, with cycling we have clubs and we can share knowledge and impress good behavious on others, the delivery industry seems like its a lot of individuals which doesnt have a community spirit.
Interesting to see how more and more angry you got as the vid went on.
You spotted that. I left and started lapping the other way solo
That group got very big very quickly.. another great vlog
I think the various pace groups end up joining so it becomes really quite big quite quickly.
The gates are closed before 7am. Maybe worth going a little earlier
you are right of course, for regents park read any other UK riding environment. Group discipline, road etiquette and recognition of do's and don'ts should be 1st priority for all of us, lets face it we have a lot of road users that believe we are a curse, sometimes we don't help ourselves. You can lead by example, wear a chest, bar or head mount and provide a talk-over. Use the handheld when you are stationary, otherwise any constructive observations will continue to be seen as "do as I say, not as I do". FWIW I've been a subscriber for a while and I enjoy your content but I have long been irritated by the fact that too many "tubers" use handheld cameras. lets see you lead by example.
Very much happy to consider those option but i liken it to drinking from a bidon or taking a gel. You dont do those when the group is moving fast or when youre right in the thick of it, you have a personal assessment to make as to when its safe to do so. I dont film from the middle of a fast moving group. This ride i left the group after the first few minutes, it wasnt for me, i rode my own pace and sat curb side in the road. Yes, i imagine this upsets some people, yourself included, but i can promise you that knowingly doing something that adds risk is a lot better than people who unknowingly are doing dangerous things. I hope that makes sense.
Regent’s Park is love hate…. Cars/walkers/cyclists all hate each other…. Wait until you see the 15 point turns some cars make at the zoo entrance 🤦🏻♂️
Personally big groups like that… stay away not worth it, always expect someone to make a mistake so give room
If you started to go daily for laps you just meet the same people and learn who to ride with and stay away from
More than welcome to join us for our Saturday pace laps if you’re ever free!
Im the kind of cyclists that when riding in London, expects every single door to be opened, every single pedestrian to step into the road and every single car in front of me to turn left without indicating. Its why in 20 years ive never had an accident.
All the gear no idea comes to mind.
I find it fascinating that you are criticising the group on camera whilst riding with them. I’m glad you called them out on what might be inappropriate behaviour. Too many cyclists have stopped caring about rules of the road or safety. It starts from the top when it comes to groups. If the leader doesn’t care, neither will the other cyclists. Brave move from you but well done.
Why is it fascinating? I ride with lots of people? It’s not designed to shame anyone, but it’s designed to create more order and predictability in the road with ultimately allows other riders and car users to anticipate movements.
I lets the ride leaders know that riding 4 up on a London road isn’t very responsible.
I’m still friends with lots of these people, I’d still ride with them tmrw, but having some more structure would be a good thing IMO
Agree on the whole. I get frustrated on group rides with people riding like idiots (who can't claim to be new to it and should know better). They also tend to be the same people who constantly moan about drivers
Why my comment got deleted about saying you're the kind of bloke to twist the kniffe behind someones back? 🤣
Worked with plenty of those types... Meaning the issues should've been said before with the leaders, rather than after the fact...
I didn’t delete it but just have a think about what you said and ask yourself if talking like that would be allowed by UA-cam.
Yeah man I explained to the ride leaders that they need to do a short safety briefing- “please avoid riding in the middle of the road” “please regroup into 2 abreast when it’s safe to do so”.
Have you ever thought that maybe you’re just not very good at your job Jim?
Love RP. Takes more than a few months to get used to it all. Cant judge from a few laps.
For sure, i weirdly used to live right on the park but only cycle commuted at the time- it was also back in 2008!!!
I think this instance was a few groups coming together and making big groups and those groups then enjoying themselves and not quite holding a structure. As i said i think its a great place for these things to happen because ultimately you can ride right on the centre line of the street and youre honestly not in very much danger, but i also think its a good opportunity to people learn.
I have a motorbike license, and that helps in understanding road positioning, as cyclists we dont need a license and i would like to keep it that way.
London needs to make other roads and areas easier for cyclists. I’m not a Londoner, but I suspect the bike traffic in RP is because the cyclists feel safe there.
I agree- Regents Park is the perfect place to do this as well as Richmond Park when they close the through route to cars. Its great. Regents has a 20mph limit so the fact is riding like this isnt actually particularly dangerous within itself but personally i feel like its an opportunity to encourage good riding structure which then gets continued out onto more dangerous roads.
I miss doing rpr laps at 5am, is it still crit fast?
Yeah the road is closed until 7am so the big fast boys/girls usually head down early
Even riding 2 abreast was a no no in the 80s. Have they joined a club previously and don’t know how to ride in groups.
I actually looked at the Highway Code today- and when you read it, the tonne really discourages cyclists from riding 2 abreast.
It’s like it’s written by someone who doesn’t like cyclists. But it does say you can ride 2 abreast, but much pull in when safe to do so to let cars pass
@thewattlife question: Is it easier for a car to pass 10 cyclists in single file or 10 cyclists riding double pace line/2 up?
@antonpeterson1245 personally I think 10 ppl in 2 abreast is a better way for cars to pass. They should always only pass when it’s clear and this requires a shorter passing time. I don’t think the Highway Code really considers cyclists too highly
@@thewattlife I agree. The Highway Code needs a serious upgrade.
UK is still an anti-cycling country, the media view is ‘car drivers knock them over as they are a pain as they dont pay road tax’. In Spain the signs show give cyclists a wide berth moreorless a cars width and generally it is adhered to.
Nice video.
Looked like a closed road ride
Regents Park is actually a closed road before 7am which is awesome, and ive had some clubs tell me they ride there 6-7 for this exact reason
Its the basic issue with everything these days, too many people everywhere, leisure activities are just the same as tourism. And the more people there are the higher chance there will be one two idiots who come along and spoil it for the rest of everyone else.
old fred shouts at clouds
LOL, says the guy talking to a camera on his bike.
🤷🏼♂️
Cycling while texting, cycling while holding a camera.
Great advert for the haters.
I guess you condone car drivers doing the same?
It’s a big jump from filming and cycling to texting and driving no? Or in your mind is that the same thing?
I was more triggered by you cycling clockwise
lol best comment yet
My comment got deleted too 🤷♂️
I can assure you I haven’t deleted anytbing
@@thewattlife it was just a message saying I agree with want you are saying . Seeing groups 4 or 5 riders wide just looks bad , I professional and hard to overtake
90% of cyclist don't care about light/ 50% of drivers don't care abiyt anything on the road, pulse they are vulgar, aggresive and dangerous. I grew up in Europe and Australia, and every British driver would lose driving licence in one day. Tickets are serious (1000 Euro), penalty points, re-training, suspension of driving license, arrest, and/or confiscation of the car.
wow, 90%? Do you have a public facing datasource for this? cheers