@@repentsinner6647 thank you I do try to share as much as I can, just trying to bring the Mercedes tuning community together so we can help each other 👍
Sort of related topic question - what is the cylinder spacing on the M111 compared to the M104? Is it broadly the same architecture with a couple of cylinders lopped off or was it more involved?
Did you know if M111 2L have the same stock piston as m104 because M111 2L and m104 3.2L have the same bore? For a goal of 500hp on m111 did you advice evo or pre evo engine?
we are waiting for the continuation !!, it is very interesting, I am also assembling the m111 2.3 engine.please tell me why the same tselindr is already knocking on the second turbo engine after some time, when I take the motor, I understand that the 3rd cylinder has been erased by almost a millimeter,what can affect this?
Hello, do you know if I can use a cylinder head 8 valve from my m102 engine in block m111? or maybe a m111 crankshaft in block 102??obviously modifying the pistons and connecting rods thank you
Hi, sorry for the late response,the 8 valve head from what I can work out will not fit the M111, however it maybe possible that the M111 crank may fit the M102 however I could not confirm this, mercedes did keep a lot of the specifications for the crankshaft journals the same and it would not surprise me if cylinder spacing is the same. are you intending to stroke the M102 engine?
Hello man. I have a problem hense a question. I installed one of the injectors suggested by you on an older video (saab 2.3t brown ones). Now my pre face m111k revs to 5.2-3k rpm and if i manage to do the full 6 i get a 2 meter long fireball after 1 secound of releacing the gas pedal. I think this means i need a tune however i need to do a bit more prep work and ill be going in for a rpm increase. My questions are: is this normal woth there injectors? Can my stock pre face ecu take a tune to about 7-7.3k rpm? ( im almost done with the hardwire preparation) If i need the evo ecu for this tune does it require anyything else other than the ecu itself to wire it up and make it work? Thanks so much you are my only guide! I cant find this info you are giving me anywhere else!
hey buddy, sorry so late to respond, your stock ECU can take a tune but it is quite difficult to do and not a lot of companies will tune them, this is why we always suggest stand alone ECUs as it gives you full control, as for revving to that kind of RPM you will likely run into valve float I would definitely suggest upgrading to dual valve springs, these engines from factory were never designed to be revvy engines they're more like a diesel engine designed to make torque and power down low in the rev range, when you start to rev past the stock limit the valve springs can't keep up, so I advise staying around 6k 6500 unless headwork has been done. The issue you have is overfuelling definitely to do that you must have fuel pooling in the exhaust this could cause "bore wash" as your on stock management it may be better to look at the VW/Audi 1.8t fuel injectors as they're slightly closer to stock size and the ECU should be able to trim them back, it sounds like what's happening is your not at a boost level to yet require the flow of the Saab injectors and the ECU can't trim them back enough to compensate for the size this can happen sometimes, however VW/Audi injectors are another cost effective option and the stock ECU can compensate for them, failing that you may actually have a stuck fuel injector but normally you would notice poor running throughout the rev range if that was the case. Is your car still running the supercharger or is it turbocharged now? if it's still on the supercharger set up I would definitely lean towards 1.8t injectors rather than Saab as the supercharger set up will normally top out around 260hp with a lot of modifications, where as turbo can reach anywhere up to allegedly 400hp on the stock engine however we have never seen that in person. when you take into account the flow rates required for these power levels the 1.8t injectors are far more suited to the power levels of the supercharger set up as most tuned SC M111s sit around 230hp. I hope this helps 👍
Thank you very much for your detailed answer. Last question is what ecu can i put in that i can tune? Is any stock mb ecu possible to fit and work properly and if not where can i find info in wiring a standalone. Also what standalone should i get? Dual valve springs and equal lenght 4-1 manifold are going in soon so i would like to be able to tune it to higher rpm.
I want to turbo my m111.960 2.2 but im wondering what piston and conrod i should use to reduce compression just a tad. Do you have any guidelines or suggestions?
on the 2.2 it's a bit of a challenge as the compression ratio is high, if I remember right the bore of the 2.2 is 89mm but has a larger stroke than the 2.0 but shares the same bore, so I would see if you can find some 2.0 Kompressor pistons I believe the Na has domed piston crowns where as the 2.0 Kompressor is flat top this should lower the compression ratio, but will still have to be cautious of detonation. I would certainly look at stern garage MLS headgaskets you should be able to use one for a 2.0 on your engine due to bore size this and some Arp head studs for a BMW s14B23 will give you some reliability, all the rods and cranks are interchangeable between m111 engines so you can have some fun, but the easiest route would be to swap out the pistons and stay with a 2.2. hope that helps 👍
The om606 uses a larger 28mm wrist pin I believe where as the M111 uses a 22mm pin so you would need pistons to suit but they could work if you had pistons with a 28mm pin, a lot of parts are interchangeable with the diesel and gasoline/ petrol engines, however all of the diesels utilised a larger wrist pin due to the increased torque and compression ratios, where as a lot of the gas/petrols use a 22mm diameter pin. Hope that helps 👍
Hello there, off topic but i saw somewhwere quiet some time ago you mentioned a fuel pressure regulator from a bmw if i remember correctly that has regulation. I cant find it anymore, do you remember the part number of it?
The fuel pressure as you mention is actually a VW 4 bar Bosch unit, I did however mention using a E39 BMW M5 MAF sensor element along with Bosch FR5DC spark plugs when using the Speer crank pulley. I hope this helps 👍
That might be, all i remember is that it fits in M111 fuel rail and that i had regulation screw on top of it. Well this narrows the search, thanks a lot!
I am using a M102 con rod on my build but you need a om601 2.3D crank and custom pistons or potentially N/a pistons but I am yet to investigate that as a possibility. M111 rods are 149mm in length and M102 rods are 145mm in length
I hope you see this comment to advise me before any purchase...I'm going for a m111 turbo build. In my country the EVO 230's are difficult to find...So i just found one w202 1996 engine 2.3ltr m111.971 **NON VVTI**. What's your overall thinking about the pressure this exact engine can handle? The block is the same on m111.973 vvti and m111.975 right? With that said i was planning on putting an EVO 230 VVTI head on the block from this engine. Could this be done with no other changes? How does VVTI affect m111's and do i have any advantages on vvti vs non-vvti m111 engines on tuning? ECU will be Standalone. Thanks in advance! Waiting for news for your m111 build!
hi, if I remember the 111.971 is the naturally aspirated 2.3 isn't it, so the block will be the same rod head but the cams and pistons are different, so the pistons are higher compression slightly domed tops (I'm ironically after a set for the built to see that will help with the rods I want to use) the problem with this is domed tops are not the best for boost especially when the "squash volume" at the top of the cylinder is so small, this would mean you are limited to the amount of boost you can run because the engine with want to DET more. regardless of N/a or Kompressor I recommend only using a MLS headgasket and Arp head studs which BMW s14B23 Arps should fit. the weakness of these engine is the clamping force and lack of material between cylinders (block shims can help with this). as for the Evo head swap it is something I want to try but unfortunately haven't been able to myself yet, but I feel it would be possible, but I'm not sure how the timing works whether the it would be a straight bolt on or if you would have to adjust the mechanical timing. I certainly view the Evo head as better for boost with the larger ports and better valves, cam profiles also changed and it is designed for coil on plug ignition. but unfortunately I can't say for sure it would fit as I haven't done it. I hope that helps 👍
@@M-oneeleven-M111 pls bro tell me i have m111.980 2.3 naturally aspirated vvti engine in w638 so is this block,piston,connection road,crankshaft and head same? I know that 2.3 k head have different valve size but i want your reply to know worth my engine tune like you and change this roads pistons or swap 2.3k?
im planning to turbo my m111 evo 2.0l,do you think my rods and pistons will hold?My mechanic says so,whats ur opinion? do you think that it can handle a respectable power with stock internals?
HI the M111 rods will hold 350-370hp within the stock Rpm limit in some cases they do hold more, the pistons will hold 270-350hp in our experience, again some say they have had 400+ but at that point you need a very good tuner as it's DET that kills these engines. I would always recommend a MLS headgasket upgrade with BMW s14B23 ARP headstuds or any other 12.9 headbolt upgrade, the stock headbolts and gasket do not hold higher levels of boost well so it's definitely worth upgrading the headgasket and headbolts that will give you reliable power.
And how much hp are these engines actually reliable to without fueling problems and everything. Say i got it all figured out and threw high boost from a turbo at it how much hp would it be reliable on
Known m111 builds include arp headstuds and mls headgasket. They love to sit around 350bhp when turboe’d but seen them do 400hp with no issues. Seems the problem after 400 is airflow in the heads and the rods dont cope. So, new builds are emerging with forged rods and ported heads with m104 valves and springs. Aparently the m104 guys use m111 pistons and they say they take 700hp with no issues.
I have been trying to find a set to also include as I know there is a fair few differences with the m111 and m111 Evo, all I can find is a few pictures at the moment I really want to strip a Evo engine down and compare but haven't had the spare funds to buy one. from the picture I could find was they shaved the weight around the rod bolts and gave it a more rounded profile. forgive me I am still learning myself however I'm sure you can educate me, especially as it was your original build that inspired me to start trying to get more from these engine many years ago 🙏
Underrated content creator
I'm happy UA-cam recommended me your channel😁 Thanks for the precious info👍
Thank you it's always great to receive positive feedback 👍🙂
@@M-oneeleven-M111 thank you for sharing your knowledge 🙏
Very informative can't believe I'm only finding your channel now lol
@@repentsinner6647 thank you I do try to share as much as I can, just trying to bring the Mercedes tuning community together so we can help each other 👍
Good informational video pal top work
Cheers bro, hopefully it helps some folks 👍
Sort of related topic question - what is the cylinder spacing on the M111 compared to the M104? Is it broadly the same architecture with a couple of cylinders lopped off or was it more involved?
Did you know if M111 2L have the same stock piston as m104 because M111 2L and m104 3.2L have the same bore?
For a goal of 500hp on m111 did you advice evo or pre evo engine?
Can slk230 m111ml (97-00)Fuel Injector Rail be upgraded to slk230 m111 evo (01-04)Fuel Injector Rail?
Can you compare their differences?
we are waiting for the continuation !!, it is very interesting, I am also assembling the m111 2.3 engine.please tell me why the same tselindr is already knocking on the second turbo engine after some time, when I take the motor, I understand that the 3rd cylinder has been erased by almost a millimeter,what can affect this?
Hello, do you know if I can use a cylinder head 8 valve from my m102 engine in block m111? or maybe a m111 crankshaft in block 102??obviously modifying the pistons and connecting rods thank you
Hi, sorry for the late response,the 8 valve head from what I can work out will not fit the M111, however it maybe possible that the M111 crank may fit the M102 however I could not confirm this, mercedes did keep a lot of the specifications for the crankshaft journals the same and it would not surprise me if cylinder spacing is the same. are you intending to stroke the M102 engine?
Thank you very much for your time and for the answer !!!!!
Some people say that m111 evo rods are reinforced and different from m111 rods
Can you compare their differences?
Hello man. I have a problem hense a question. I installed one of the injectors suggested by you on an older video (saab 2.3t brown ones). Now my pre face m111k revs to 5.2-3k rpm and if i manage to do the full 6 i get a 2 meter long fireball after 1 secound of releacing the gas pedal. I think this means i need a tune however i need to do a bit more prep work and ill be going in for a rpm increase. My questions are: is this normal woth there injectors? Can my stock pre face ecu take a tune to about 7-7.3k rpm? ( im almost done with the hardwire preparation) If i need the evo ecu for this tune does it require anyything else other than the ecu itself to wire it up and make it work? Thanks so much you are my only guide! I cant find this info you are giving me anywhere else!
hey buddy, sorry so late to respond, your stock ECU can take a tune but it is quite difficult to do and not a lot of companies will tune them, this is why we always suggest stand alone ECUs as it gives you full control, as for revving to that kind of RPM you will likely run into valve float I would definitely suggest upgrading to dual valve springs, these engines from factory were never designed to be revvy engines they're more like a diesel engine designed to make torque and power down low in the rev range, when you start to rev past the stock limit the valve springs can't keep up, so I advise staying around 6k 6500 unless headwork has been done.
The issue you have is overfuelling definitely to do that you must have fuel pooling in the exhaust this could cause "bore wash" as your on stock management it may be better to look at the VW/Audi 1.8t fuel injectors as they're slightly closer to stock size and the ECU should be able to trim them back, it sounds like what's happening is your not at a boost level to yet require the flow of the Saab injectors and the ECU can't trim them back enough to compensate for the size this can happen sometimes, however VW/Audi injectors are another cost effective option and the stock ECU can compensate for them, failing that you may actually have a stuck fuel injector but normally you would notice poor running throughout the rev range if that was the case.
Is your car still running the supercharger or is it turbocharged now? if it's still on the supercharger set up I would definitely lean towards 1.8t injectors rather than Saab as the supercharger set up will normally top out around 260hp with a lot of modifications, where as turbo can reach anywhere up to allegedly 400hp on the stock engine however we have never seen that in person. when you take into account the flow rates required for these power levels the 1.8t injectors are far more suited to the power levels of the supercharger set up as most tuned SC M111s sit around 230hp.
I hope this helps 👍
Thank you very much for your detailed answer. Last question is what ecu can i put in that i can tune? Is any stock mb ecu possible to fit and work properly and if not where can i find info in wiring a standalone. Also what standalone should i get? Dual valve springs and equal lenght 4-1 manifold are going in soon so i would like to be able to tune it to higher rpm.
I want to turbo my m111.960 2.2 but im wondering what piston and conrod i should use to reduce compression just a tad. Do you have any guidelines or suggestions?
on the 2.2 it's a bit of a challenge as the compression ratio is high, if I remember right the bore of the 2.2 is 89mm but has a larger stroke than the 2.0 but shares the same bore, so I would see if you can find some 2.0 Kompressor pistons I believe the Na has domed piston crowns where as the 2.0 Kompressor is flat top this should lower the compression ratio, but will still have to be cautious of detonation. I would certainly look at stern garage MLS headgaskets you should be able to use one for a 2.0 on your engine due to bore size this and some Arp head studs for a BMW s14B23 will give you some reliability, all the rods and cranks are interchangeable between m111 engines so you can have some fun, but the easiest route would be to swap out the pistons and stay with a 2.2. hope that helps 👍
Is there a difference in fitting om606 turbodiesel connecting rods in a m111? I Think they are pretty beefy and can handle a lot
The om606 uses a larger 28mm wrist pin I believe where as the M111 uses a 22mm pin so you would need pistons to suit but they could work if you had pistons with a 28mm pin, a lot of parts are interchangeable with the diesel and gasoline/ petrol engines, however all of the diesels utilised a larger wrist pin due to the increased torque and compression ratios, where as a lot of the gas/petrols use a 22mm diameter pin. Hope that helps 👍
Hello there, off topic but i saw somewhwere quiet some time ago you mentioned a fuel pressure regulator from a bmw if i remember correctly that has regulation. I cant find it anymore, do you remember the part number of it?
The fuel pressure as you mention is actually a VW 4 bar Bosch unit, I did however mention using a E39 BMW M5 MAF sensor element along with Bosch FR5DC spark plugs when using the Speer crank pulley. I hope this helps 👍
That might be, all i remember is that it fits in M111 fuel rail and that i had regulation screw on top of it.
Well this narrows the search, thanks a lot!
Hey friend! Am I able to put M111 rods into a M104 stroker build? I’m going for a 147mm c/c.
Any idea whether I can use M102 con rod on M111
I am using a M102 con rod on my build but you need a om601 2.3D crank and custom pistons or potentially N/a pistons but I am yet to investigate that as a possibility. M111 rods are 149mm in length and M102 rods are 145mm in length
what is the diameter of the m111 crankshaft bearing and m102 crankshaft bearing ?
I hope you see this comment to advise me before any purchase...I'm going for a m111 turbo build.
In my country the EVO 230's are difficult to find...So i just found one w202 1996 engine 2.3ltr m111.971 **NON VVTI**.
What's your overall thinking about the pressure this exact engine can handle?
The block is the same on m111.973 vvti and m111.975 right? With that said i was planning on putting an EVO 230 VVTI head on the block from this engine. Could this be done with no other changes?
How does VVTI affect m111's and do i have any advantages on vvti vs non-vvti m111 engines on tuning?
ECU will be Standalone.
Thanks in advance! Waiting for news for your m111 build!
hi, if I remember the 111.971 is the naturally aspirated 2.3 isn't it, so the block will be the same rod head but the cams and pistons are different, so the pistons are higher compression slightly domed tops (I'm ironically after a set for the built to see that will help with the rods I want to use) the problem with this is domed tops are not the best for boost especially when the "squash volume" at the top of the cylinder is so small, this would mean you are limited to the amount of boost you can run because the engine with want to DET more. regardless of N/a or Kompressor I recommend only using a MLS headgasket and Arp head studs which BMW s14B23 Arps should fit. the weakness of these engine is the clamping force and lack of material between cylinders (block shims can help with this).
as for the Evo head swap it is something I want to try but unfortunately haven't been able to myself yet, but I feel it would be possible, but I'm not sure how the timing works whether the it would be a straight bolt on or if you would have to adjust the mechanical timing. I certainly view the Evo head as better for boost with the larger ports and better valves, cam profiles also changed and it is designed for coil on plug ignition. but unfortunately I can't say for sure it would fit as I haven't done it.
I hope that helps 👍
@@M-oneeleven-M111 pls bro tell me i have m111.980 2.3 naturally aspirated vvti engine in w638 so is this block,piston,connection road,crankshaft and head same? I know that 2.3 k head have different valve size but i want your reply to know worth my engine tune like you and change this roads pistons or swap 2.3k?
The answer is "if a woodchuck could chuck wood, a woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could chuck." 🤣🤣🤣
🤣😂🤣😂🤣
im planning to turbo my m111 evo 2.0l,do you think my rods and pistons will hold?My mechanic says so,whats ur opinion? do you think that it can handle a respectable power with stock internals?
HI the M111 rods will hold 350-370hp within the stock Rpm limit in some cases they do hold more, the pistons will hold 270-350hp in our experience, again some say they have had 400+ but at that point you need a very good tuner as it's DET that kills these engines. I would always recommend a MLS headgasket upgrade with BMW s14B23 ARP headstuds or any other 12.9 headbolt upgrade, the stock headbolts and gasket do not hold higher levels of boost well so it's definitely worth upgrading the headgasket and headbolts that will give you reliable power.
@@M-oneeleven-M111 what do you mean DET?
So which can handle boost better ? Just curious
And how much hp are these engines actually reliable to without fueling problems and everything. Say i got it all figured out and threw high boost from a turbo at it how much hp would it be reliable on
Known m111 builds include arp headstuds and mls headgasket. They love to sit around 350bhp when turboe’d but seen them do 400hp with no issues. Seems the problem after 400 is airflow in the heads and the rods dont cope. So, new builds are emerging with forged rods and ported heads with m104 valves and springs. Aparently the m104 guys use m111 pistons and they say they take 700hp with no issues.
@@9teen837 thank you i will be using this knowledge for the greater good of m111 society 🤣🙏
Look m111 evo difference ;)
I have been trying to find a set to also include as I know there is a fair few differences with the m111 and m111 Evo, all I can find is a few pictures at the moment I really want to strip a Evo engine down and compare but haven't had the spare funds to buy one. from the picture I could find was they shaved the weight around the rod bolts and gave it a more rounded profile. forgive me I am still learning myself however I'm sure you can educate me, especially as it was your original build that inspired me to start trying to get more from these engine many years ago 🙏
Hey do you have an insta ? I wanna hit you up ask you some questions for the w202 I’m building