Hey TGE!! I know this is 2 months late, but would you ever consider: Going on IMDBs top 100 and comparing the editing from 1 film from the 1st / 10th best film, and another from the 90th / 100th Best film. Both of them would have to be the same Genre I suppose. I'm curious to know what the differences are between the 5th best movie ever rated and say the 95th best movie, I suppose every movie in the top 100 is a good movie. I see alot of old movies, black and white on some of these lists, it's like making your movie look old or black and white almost guarantees to Add some points to a review, yet some of the movies are, in my opinion (which is worth NOTHING lol) ... are not very good, I understand with some of them, they are artistic but some are just lazy. sorry for the long comment, I'm at work waiting for something to happen lol so I'm rushing through my comment, so I apologise if if made some errors. or a review of an old Black and white, along side a new black and white. sorry if I sound dumb I normally take my time with my comments lmao 🤣 🤪 if I didn't make sense then just let me know and I will translate when I'm home in English lol I know your channel is getting big now so I understand if you don't reply, and if you have already done this then I would love a link please! "How animated movies use Blocking" how they choose what camera angles to use Things animated movies can do, that live can't (If anything) "How Editing has changed since the 90s" "How editing has evolved since the beginning" lol i have a hell of a load more, I just don't know what to do with them haha plus they may be terrible so il leave it at that. have a nice day my friend, thank younfor sharing your videos, your input has really helped me grow as a film maker, I hope to start my own channel soon, starting with tours on the BooBoo Bus 🚑 with my own short films in time that I've made with my community, hopefully one day you will hear my name being shouted out or thanked by another youtuber because I helped someone, or even better would be helping you 😊 maybe one day, we all have dreams that make no sense to others lol. anyway, sorry for such a long comment. I really hope you already living your dream life, but I hope it gets better and better for you, thank you so much for being such a good influence on mine and many other amateur film makers lives. I hope you nothing but the best my friend 😃 I hope I made sense 🙏 😌 love and Happy feels 🙂 😄 😃 from North East UK 🇬🇧 Chris Riley
BvS, the studio version really destroyed the whole story but cutting it short. which in ultimate version, all the deleted scenes are important details for the conflict for both batman and superman
@@arunkrishnakumar692 Hahahaha!!...I work in DNEG(Double Negative VFX) & ive worked on both those movies. We've been vended out the Zack Snyder cut JL movie too but im not assigned to that show unfortunately.
This reminds me of something my mentor told me a long time ago. He said, “Everyone wants to be a director, but editors are the ones with all the real power. They’re the ones who tell the story. If you want to tell a story forget about being a director become an editor. They’re indispensable and they have more control than the director.”. I’ll never forget those words
@@davidjames579 I remember I said the same thing and his response was “It’ll never be your story. You can write the story and film it, but the editor is still going to be the one to put it all together and tell the story. So it will never be the story exactly the way you wanted to tell it.” I then asked, but what if I edit it myself? He said “very few directors in the world get to write, direct, and edit their own stuff without any oversight, and the few that do aren’t very good because they can’t take input from other people.” He went on to say that “making movies or any kind of media is a collaborative process with multiple people contributing their ideas. So the final product will never be exactly what you imagined, but that’s a good thing because it improves the final product.” A couple days later he brought in another editor to do their own edit of the project we were working on. Their edit was completely different from mine and the story didn’t make any sense to me, but I still ended up including some of their changes in the final edit. I didn’t realise at the time, but part of the reason why he brought in the second editor was to give me a taste of what it was like to not be in control of the edit
If you are into films somehow, you should watch every movie at least twice. First time to read the story through the dialogue, Second - to enjoy actual cinema. If you are serious about films (as advanced active viewer or as filmmaker) - rewatch it again with director comments and again and again, like Orson Welles rewatched Stagecoach by John Ford and after that shot Citizen Kane. But every great film that drives you somehow should be admired at least twice. I passively rewatched Pulp Fiction at least 40 times but actively 3 times and 2 times without ANY sound, and I will actively rewatch it without video at least once in a while. Its a hard work I have to say ;)
T. K. Abrams passively watching some lame stuff and actively working on material and disassemble it - is different thing. Something like comparing a cozy sitting on a bench with a beer in a hand and watching for some guys carrying heavy bags and the different story is when you are carrying extremely heavy bag and thinking - where are you going to and what are you going to do with material in a bag.
You brought the school of editing to the people who can't go to the school to learn to edit. I think this is how a masterclass must be. Practical and professional. Thanks a million!
I think the car passing added in post production also plays a psychological role since cars and their weight play a role in this film. I think it’s also worth noting how the color Grading is totally different
@@vegeta4693214 I don't know about this film but the common way is even if the edit changes you can link the same color grading to the new edit. It's part of the job of "Conforming". Here's a great video about postproducton, i discovered it when answering ;] ua-cam.com/video/IFjyVW21Vpw/v-deo.html
Like Eastwood Music said, shorter versions of films allow them to have more showings listed in the theater. A 90 min film is going to be played more times per day than one that's more than 150 mins. An hour and a half long movie can be played a good 5-6 times in one day versus 3-4 times for a 3 hour film.
@@sketchleaf7698 thats such a backwards way of thinking though. Yes you get more showings per day, but that only matters if people want to see it. If you cut a movie to shit and it gets destroyed by critics, nobody will go see it and it won't matter how many showings per day you have. Conversely if you have a long movie that is incredibly popular it will stay in theaters longer and make up the difference. Most of the highest grossing movies of all time are over 2.5 hours. And when you are talking about a small movie like this, the greatest asset you can have is word of mouth. I would take the risk of making a great movie that maybe I don't get enough return on over making a crap movie to spam it in theaters 100% of the time.
That is a great approach to eliminate storylines. Much smarter than leaving some of them incomplete which was my main complaint. I did like the Opera music to heighten the senses and go with her drama queen behavior. As always, great in depth analysis. You make everyone love movies that much more.
Any way we can see your recut where you eliminated the two minor storylines? I'm assuming that, since you went this far, you probably went all the way and made it. :-)
My guess is the extended version cuts to close up of Anna Paquin despite the continuity error with hands. The studio version cuts to the teachers reaction. The extended version goes for emotion and creating emphaty with Paquin's character whereas the studio version saves the continuity. And i agree that this might be edited by Thelma Schoonmaker because i noticesd a lot of this kind of edits in her films especially table scenes in goodfellas
Hmm yeah. I didn't notice the discontinuity on the hands on the first watch, only noticed (and found it obvious) when it was pointed out! I think I didn't notice because the rhythm of her words and the emotion in them had an easy flow to them. I guess a takeaway from Thelma's technique here would be that continuity should be considered but should take a backseat to emotion when it feels right.
Yeah - I think the main reason for this edit was it shortens (again) we get to the reaction a second or 2 sooner. I love that the discontinuity with the hands doesn't matter because this isn't where the audience is focussed on. When I started editing I used to freak out over discontinuity - but there are other things more important than continuity which keep the FLOW going through edits. Dynamic movement can get mixed up, but if the general feel is the same over the edit it is fine. I guess it probably the same for TRUTH in a scene. I watched "Carlito's Way" many times before I realised all the discontinuity every time there is a 2 shot cutting to a 2 shot. Took me about 12 watches to spot them, because I was always caught in the emotion. Also the is something beautiful about cutting from a 2 shot to a 2 shot. Probably just because it's so different to standard, boring HW editing.
I once saw a video about Martin Scorsee's style of editing choosing shots that conveyed the best emotion, performance and story, rather than worrying about continuity. The idea being that if the story and performance is good enough no one is paying attention much to continuity as they are so captivated. They illustrated this with a scene from Goodfellas in which the position of bottles, amount of liquid in glasses, length of cigars, etc... changes from shot to shot as the editor picked the best shots for the story and didn't worry about continuity. I think for most people watching this bit in the extended version of Margaret here, they didn't notice the continuity error with her arms until the re-watched it and paid attention. One other thing that makes this particular editing choice a good one is Anna's body language, not only does she say "around me" in the dialog, but her arms are literally wrapped around her. I think that's a powerful subconscious cue that shows the brilliance of the editor with the extended version.
I need to find the director's cut! I saw this basically when it came out and I liked the story. It was a very relevant way of showing how a person can lose themselves because of trauma, and how that can manifest itself. But it did feel slow and long. That scene of her sitting on the bed and seeing the stain of blood was FAR MORE powerful cuz it was visceral, and made her sudden run to the bathroom make sense cuz we got to see the trigger. I'm gonna re-watch this.
This is amazing. The ending...is acting 101. She is using her hands against her body to show a feeling. The editor leaving that out and using over the shoulder shot seeing the other character doesn't let you feel what she is feeling....just his reaction. Wonder why tho.
I like that you pointed out sound design, about hearing people on the street. It adds so much. This is what made Scorsese's early works, New movement generally, so down to earth.
Great commentary. This shows how studios still bring down the best films with decisions made by people who have no talent for writing good films. Films saved by the decisions of producers and studios make up a pretty short list from what I've seen.
Ehhh in the case of this movie I think it's the director, the studio was probably correct to ask for the shorter version and if they cut the stories he suggested the movie wouldve been more concise, more succinct and a better watch altogether
Sadly, studios ruining films happens more than many people may know. I worked on a comedy that was very adult oriented. When we watched the movie at the studio, everyone laughed and enjoyed the film. However, because the film had mostly adult oriented humor, the studio was afraid that it wouldn't translate to ticket sales. As a result, a PG-13 cut was made and it completely sucked the movie dry of any humor. Suffice it to say, the movie bombed at the box office. I was very disappointed knowing that the original cut was very entertaining. But, the studio's fear around money drove them to cut out the best parts of film. It was like they blindly chopped it up without taking the humor - the point of a comedy - into consideration. It's one of the reasons that I think many filmmakers turn to crowdfunding for their films. The last feature I was a camera man on, was mostly crowdfunded except for the last 4 months of live shooting. And it was also the most enjoyable experience I ever had working on a film out of the 50+ movies I've worked on. The writer/editor/director of that film is writing a new film. We are excited about shooting it. I wish studios had more faith in their productions. Situations like with "Margaret" may happen a lot less often.
As a new film editor I want to thank you for this video. It brings the message home very well about all the little edits we do, and how timing is critical.
That first scene you look at where they cut out her sitting and getting blood on the sheets... like wow. It turns such a powerfully emotional scene into one I no longer feel connected to.
I hv watched the movie previously(studio version).. the story was so good. as an editor it is a key to learn these specific things.. a small tweek, a small adjustment ( like the car passing by) .. to tell and do justice with the story. thank you Sir for teaching us these things. these lessons r priceless 🤗
The colour plays a big role in it as well. Watching the scene where she's standing in her room before any scene changes was much more compelling emotionally in the director's cut then the studio version.
In the director/writer commentary for Mission Impossible: Fallout, Tom Cruise and Christopher Mcquarrie said they made a shorter version of the film at the studio's request. Audiences felt it was too long, a little boring.
Having seen Fallout, I wouldn't mind to have the film being stretch out more. I could've watched another hour of that helicopter chase or any action scene in the movie because they were brilliantly directed. Of course there's need sometime to take a break from the action scene to understand what exactly is going on
This is so accurate because I was really interested in seeing this film and when it came out I downloaded the theatrical version, and stopped halfway through because I felt so bored and disengaged. Now I really want to explore the directors cut.
Personally, I think the story line with the literature teacher (Matthew Broderick) is important because it ties it all up with 'Margaret' and her predicament (from a Shakespeare play). I watched this movie twice, and I did enjoy it a lot. In my opinion, the story line we could have done without is that of the fling of the mother with Jean Reno.
@@mouzube it was nearly 10 years ago that the movie was released. In beginning of this video he says the movie was finished with filming in 2005 and post production took 6 years. Anna Pequín would have been 23 at the end of shooting. Not really that much of a stretch for her to play a teenager.
The extended version is cut to an emotional truth not a physical action (continuity) truth, so after she says "am I even who I am but what's going on inside me..." (wider shot) the next cut is a medium shot favouring her, not the other male actor, with her arms wrapped around herself, in a soothing manner as she delivers the line with a pained expression "or all around me"; it's like the emotion of her action, her pained self soothing matches directly with the line "or all around me" like she's scared of her place in the world + her the look on her face clearly amplifies this.
The mindset of a bunch of these executives is all off, even from a profit standpoint. If your movie is a masterpiece at 3 hours, I will decide to invest 3 hours of my time to watch it. If a movie is mediocre or even just okay, I’m not gonna waste _2 1/2 hours_ to sit through it. You’re gonna make more money off of a well-reviewed movie with fewer daily showings than a bad/mediocre movie with a ton of showings. They botched Kingdom of Heaven, they botched this movie, they probably botched Live By Night, they botched a bunch of these movies and for nothing. They made less than they would’ve with a longer runtime. Show both versions to critics and test audiences. If the 3 hour cut is a masterpiece and the 2 1/2 hour cut gets meh reviews, go with the 3 hour. Otherwise, why did they greenlight it in the first place? Just to slip on their shoelaces at the finish line? What’s wrong with these people? Make your money back!
Impressive video. It reminds me of a class I had in film school where an editor gave us his fist cut of a film he did and gave us a week to trim it down to what we thought was right, while motivating every choice. One question though: why didn't you just use scene cut detection in Davinci?
I'm not an editor at all and watch your videos for insight and fun but I will give my thoughts on the extended scene, also I have not seen the movie but will certainly have to. I think the difference is that the studio version cutting to Matt Damon's character takes us albeit briefly from her who is the focus. The cut in the extended version doesn't just keep the camera pointed on her but we can see a change in her posture, specifically her arms. When she says 'Not who I am, but what's going on inside me her arms are by her sides, palms facing us as if to direct us to her body, exposing herself to us so when can see her. Then it cuts to her saying 'All around me' and her arms are wrapped around herself as someone might do for comfort, or when we feel like space is closing in around us. The focus on her and her body/posture illustrate what is being said by her. Visual sub-text almost, very subtle and we probably wouldn't register it unless looking for it. That's my take, which may be utter rubbish as I haven't even seen the movie. Though I should go check it out.
Seeing several of your videos, I think it'd be interesting if you took a look at some big, controversial films of recent years, namely DC films: Batman V. Superman (theatrical vs. ultimate), Suicide Squad (the film infamously experienced a Snyder Cut level of meddling) and Justice League vs. The Snyder Cut. Editing, pacing and timing absolutely has a massive effect on these films and BvS itself is an underrated masterpiece, utterly butchered and wrangled by the studio demanding the darker scenes cut out and a shorter run time so they could have more showings in a day. This attempt at cutting the films shorter, making them funnier, and more made them villified in the comic book and film communities and the Snyder films still receive an overtly negative reception to this day, based on the awful studio-mandated edits to their films. BvS actually flows and feels like there's events going on in the 3hr version, while the 2hr30min version snipped everything that didn't focus on Batman, which in turn ruins EVERYTHING the film is setting up. the 3hr version makes it very apparent why certain things happen and elaborates greatly on characters and motivations.
Her head moves differently, too, in the over-the-shoulder. Does that suggest that continuity/authenticity was lost for the price of a teacher shot? I dunno. Off to patreon
Excellent analysis. I haven’t seen the studio version but just watched the extended cut and thought it was a masterpiece. I wish more people knew about this film.
I Really enjoyed this! Thanks for doing all that work to show how editing makes a big difference. I hoped you had commented on the color choices of each film. The Studio version was warm, and the extended version was cool. Why did they change the temp. of the studio version, I wonder?
This gives me the answer to why this movie felt so weird when I whatched it. Some scenes where super engaging and yet something felt off. Im glad you made this video!
Excellent video, but there is another lesson to be learned which a lot of people won't want to hear but might save some pain. If you accept finance to make a film under certain conditions and you don't adhere to those conditions then don't be surprised if the financier insists on having their way. There are a lot of filmmakers who, for example, agree to a budget they never intend to even try to stick to. They then whine when the financier won't just keep handing them extra money without strings. In this case, if you have a script which you agree you can make at a certain length and then go a whole 30 minutes longer then you either massively miscalculated or you were knowingly misleading the studio and just hoping they would accept the increased length they had been misled about. You can't really complain either way if the studio insists on a shorter cut as you didn't fulfil your part of the bargain. Which version is subjectively better is a different matter. For what it's worth, and not having seen the film, but based on this video it sounds like the filmmaker made a couple of very common mistakes - trying to shove too much tangential material into the available space and then falling too much in love with the footage they had shot. It does sound like it has barely relevant threads which hardly even count as subplots and which should have been pruned right back or eliminated entirely, preferably at the script stage but certainly in the edit.
subtlety comes with the price of patience, time is the essence. At many occasions, the only way to appreciate art is to be patience and focus. Sadly, nowadays, ppl chose "fast" over everything else, just like consuming fast foods, nothing but garbage.
Interesting analysis. Well done! Though I remember reading somewhere that the 'original' cut by Lonergan is indeed not a complete cut (or it's not a version that was done, color timed and printed properly for a theatrical release, it never was completed in that shape & form), so this so-called "extended" version is kind of something that can almost be considered as the cut he originally pushed for back then. The so-called extended cut for the DVD release was at first assembled from dailes and the sound was also crappier, the score was different, etc. Otherwise, a completely different movie.
As much as I despise the damage done by some producers to numerous films and film makers, it's not unreasonable to be expected to do what was agreed to in advance. That and two and a half hours is a generous run time.
Interesting. Because I've only seen the studio version (it's the only one streaming) and I loved it still. But yeah, I'd love to see the director's version. The only issue is, it's only in SD and not Hi-Def like the Studio version is. So you get more of the story "better" paced but with a lower picture quality. So I'll have to seek it out. Great video.
Hey bro hope you are well and having a great day so far. Just found you today and really pleased we have your videos are awesome bro. Fantastic editing skills and great footage. Thanks so much for sharing your experience and knowledge with us really appreciate it. This is a crazy length of time. Very cool indeed though, powerful stuff. Thanks again bro. Stay safe and catch up again real soon.
Can you please make a video like this for Batman v Superman theatrical vs Ultimate Edition and then Justice League (2017) vs The Snyder Cut (2021) next year?
I remember saying the same thing about the Mathew Broderick storyline when I first saw this film. The 'you can't be smoking a j on your way to the soccer game' moment is... well, odd, even in context. But yeah, great advice in general. Trimming those smaller things in the edit, the length of a shot etc. may actually sacrifice the emotion of a scene, or at least change it. It's a shame that the studio felt that this was the way to go with this film over cutting some of the looser storylines.
I got into editing very recently and probably will be up against some seasoned professionals, but screw it. I am taking part ! Hope to learn a thing or two along the way
This film could be so beautiful, it is with the extended version that doesn't feel long. Let the creative people decide! Don't cram more films in a day for the audience, you see it doesn't work out...
Creative people don't get to decide the time... studios and distributors do.. No one wants to give over 150 mins of screening time to a drama lol. If you cannot tell a story within that expected and typical time period then you need to rewrite your script and reshoot your shots. Creative people my ass! This is why a lot of movies are in development hell because creative people can't decide how to tell the story... They have the story idea but no idea how to efficiently tell it.
It's all subjective. I felt the pause in walking scene natural and good but the directors cut with the car passing in front was jumpy to me and the car didn't add anything to the scene.
Schoonmaker and Marty don't mind combining shots with different action - the arms being raised and then crossed - I used to think as an editor those things would bother me but with the more Scorsese I watch the more I love the commitment to emotion or in certain cases playing with time on wider shots.
What film should I look at next and analyze the editing?
Hey TGE!!
I know this is 2 months late,
but would you ever consider:
Going on IMDBs top 100
and comparing the editing from
1 film from the 1st / 10th best film,
and another from the 90th / 100th Best film.
Both of them would have to be the same Genre I suppose.
I'm curious to know what the differences are between the 5th best movie ever rated and say the 95th best movie,
I suppose every movie in the top 100 is a good movie.
I see alot of old movies, black and white on some of these lists, it's like making your movie look old or black and white almost guarantees to Add some points to a review, yet some of the movies are, in my opinion (which is worth NOTHING lol) ... are not very good, I understand with some of them, they are artistic but some are just lazy.
sorry for the long comment, I'm at work waiting for something to happen lol so I'm rushing through my comment,
so I apologise if if made some errors.
or a review of an old Black and white, along side a new black and white.
sorry if I sound dumb I normally take my time with my comments lmao 🤣 🤪
if I didn't make sense then just let me know and I will translate when I'm home in English lol
I know your channel is getting big now so I understand if you don't reply, and if you have already done this then I would love a link please!
"How animated movies use Blocking"
how they choose what camera angles to use
Things animated movies can do, that live can't (If anything)
"How Editing has changed since the 90s"
"How editing has evolved since the beginning"
lol i have a hell of a load more, I just don't know what to do with them haha plus they may be terrible so il leave it at that.
have a nice day my friend, thank younfor sharing your videos, your input has really helped me grow as a film maker, I hope to start my own channel soon, starting with tours on the BooBoo Bus 🚑 with my own short films in time that I've made with my community, hopefully one day you will hear my name being shouted out or thanked by another youtuber because I helped someone, or even better would be helping you 😊 maybe one day, we all have dreams that make no sense to others lol.
anyway, sorry for such a long comment.
I really hope you already living your dream life, but I hope it gets better and better for you, thank you so much for being such a good influence on mine and many other amateur film makers lives.
I hope you nothing but the best my friend 😃
I hope I made sense 🙏 😌
love and Happy feels 🙂 😄 😃
from North East UK 🇬🇧
Chris Riley
Thanks for the work - try and take a look at Four Rooms :)
Ugetsu
The Matrix
BvS, the studio version really destroyed the whole story but cutting it short. which in ultimate version, all the deleted scenes are important details for the conflict for both batman and superman
I wonder how many gems we've already missed because of "creative input" by big studios.
Pretty much the entire oeuvre of Orson Welles is an complete chapter of what we'll never get to see.
As someone who works in the VFX industry I totally feel ur comment on many levels.
Batman vs Superman
Justice league
@@arunkrishnakumar692 Hahahaha!!...I work in DNEG(Double Negative VFX) & ive worked on both those movies. We've been vended out the Zack Snyder cut JL movie too but im not assigned to that show unfortunately.
@@3rdworldgwaming467 wow 👋🤩🤩
This reminds me of something my mentor told me a long time ago. He said, “Everyone wants to be a director, but editors are the ones with all the real power. They’re the ones who tell the story. If you want to tell a story forget about being a director become an editor. They’re indispensable and they have more control than the director.”. I’ll never forget those words
Who's your mentor?
But of course you're always stuck with somebody else's story.
@@hootu He was a man named Tom. He’d done a lot of documentary and interview work in his career and as a result had a lot of great stories
@@davidjames579 I remember I said the same thing and his response was “It’ll never be your story. You can write the story and film it, but the editor is still going to be the one to put it all together and tell the story. So it will never be the story exactly the way you wanted to tell it.”
I then asked, but what if I edit it myself? He said “very few directors in the world get to write, direct, and edit their own stuff without any oversight, and the few that do aren’t very good because they can’t take input from other people.”
He went on to say that “making movies or any kind of media is a collaborative process with multiple people contributing their ideas. So the final product will never be exactly what you imagined, but that’s a good thing because it improves the final product.”
A couple days later he brought in another editor to do their own edit of the project we were working on. Their edit was completely different from mine and the story didn’t make any sense to me, but I still ended up including some of their changes in the final edit. I didn’t realise at the time, but part of the reason why he brought in the second editor was to give me a taste of what it was like to not be in control of the edit
@@TheJjcczz wholesome
Never even heard of the film, matter of fact I don't even know how I got here or why it was even recommended. I'll go watch the movie now.
This guy is so committed that he spent 6 hours watching a single film
If you are into films somehow, you should watch every movie at least twice. First time to read the story through the dialogue, Second - to enjoy actual cinema.
If you are serious about films (as advanced active viewer or as filmmaker) - rewatch it again with director comments and again and again, like Orson Welles rewatched Stagecoach by John Ford and after that shot Citizen Kane.
But every great film that drives you somehow should be admired at least twice.
I passively rewatched Pulp Fiction at least 40 times but actively 3 times and 2 times without ANY sound, and I will actively rewatch it without video at least once in a while. Its a hard work I have to say ;)
Don't forget the amount of time he spent cutting and re-arranging the two timelines. RESPECT.
Man, I bet it is a lot more than 6. I'm betting closer to 60 hours.
Imagine watching 11 hour gameplays like most gamers do on youtube lol
T. K. Abrams passively watching some lame stuff and actively working on material and disassemble it - is different thing. Something like comparing a cozy sitting on a bench with a beer in a hand and watching for some guys carrying heavy bags and the different story is when you are carrying extremely heavy bag and thinking - where are you going to and what are you going to do with material in a bag.
You brought the school of editing to the people who can't go to the school to learn to edit. I think this is how a masterclass must be. Practical and professional. Thanks a million!
Appreciate that
I think the car passing added in post production also plays a psychological role since cars and their weight play a role in this film.
I think it’s also worth noting how the color Grading is totally different
It matches the part about overheard conversations as well. We're stuck in her story.
Color grading comes after the film's been cut. Since they are different cuts, that'd explain why they have different color grading.
PARE disagree. With an 85mm lens from far back enough to grab a half body shot would. I suggest you make yourself a student before a critic...
i think it’s a super edit, it looks real af, and is a tribute to bring engaged in making every dialogue as great as you can via being creative!
@@vegeta4693214 I don't know about this film but the common way is even if the edit changes you can link the same color grading to the new edit. It's part of the job of "Conforming". Here's a great video about postproducton, i discovered it when answering ;] ua-cam.com/video/IFjyVW21Vpw/v-deo.html
I wonder why studios are so fixated on the 150 minute cut...
shorter means more shows, that's all distributors really care about.
Perhaps they have some science on brain attention or something, to bad "air" no matter how short waste a film like spoiled food.
Like Eastwood Music said, shorter versions of films allow them to have more showings listed in the theater. A 90 min film is going to be played more times per day than one that's more than 150 mins. An hour and a half long movie can be played a good 5-6 times in one day versus 3-4 times for a 3 hour film.
@@sketchleaf7698 thats such a backwards way of thinking though. Yes you get more showings per day, but that only matters if people want to see it. If you cut a movie to shit and it gets destroyed by critics, nobody will go see it and it won't matter how many showings per day you have. Conversely if you have a long movie that is incredibly popular it will stay in theaters longer and make up the difference. Most of the highest grossing movies of all time are over 2.5 hours. And when you are talking about a small movie like this, the greatest asset you can have is word of mouth. I would take the risk of making a great movie that maybe I don't get enough return on over making a crap movie to spam it in theaters 100% of the time.
dash4800 greed my friend, this word will be a hot topic when u grow up. That’s all this world is run by.
That is a great approach to eliminate storylines. Much smarter than leaving some of them incomplete which was my main complaint. I did like the Opera music to heighten the senses and go with her drama queen behavior. As always, great in depth analysis. You make everyone love movies that much more.
Any way we can see your recut where you eliminated the two minor storylines? I'm assuming that, since you went this far, you probably went all the way and made it. :-)
This is the most committed video I've ever seen. I can't believe how much time you spent on this. Thank you for your dedication.
My guess is the extended version cuts to close up of Anna Paquin despite the continuity error with hands. The studio version cuts to the teachers reaction. The extended version goes for emotion and creating emphaty with Paquin's character whereas the studio version saves the continuity. And i agree that this might be edited by Thelma Schoonmaker because i noticesd a lot of this kind of edits in her films especially table scenes in goodfellas
Hmm yeah. I didn't notice the discontinuity on the hands on the first watch, only noticed (and found it obvious) when it was pointed out! I think I didn't notice because the rhythm of her words and the emotion in them had an easy flow to them. I guess a takeaway from Thelma's technique here would be that continuity should be considered but should take a backseat to emotion when it feels right.
Yeah - I think the main reason for this edit was it shortens (again) we get to the reaction a second or 2 sooner. I love that the discontinuity with the hands doesn't matter because this isn't where the audience is focussed on. When I started editing I used to freak out over discontinuity - but there are other things more important than continuity which keep the FLOW going through edits. Dynamic movement can get mixed up, but if the general feel is the same over the edit it is fine. I guess it probably the same for TRUTH in a scene. I watched "Carlito's Way" many times before I realised all the discontinuity every time there is a 2 shot cutting to a 2 shot. Took me about 12 watches to spot them, because I was always caught in the emotion. Also the is something beautiful about cutting from a 2 shot to a 2 shot. Probably just because it's so different to standard, boring HW editing.
I once saw a video about Martin Scorsee's style of editing choosing shots that conveyed the best emotion, performance and story, rather than worrying about continuity. The idea being that if the story and performance is good enough no one is paying attention much to continuity as they are so captivated. They illustrated this with a scene from Goodfellas in which the position of bottles, amount of liquid in glasses, length of cigars, etc... changes from shot to shot as the editor picked the best shots for the story and didn't worry about continuity.
I think for most people watching this bit in the extended version of Margaret here, they didn't notice the continuity error with her arms until the re-watched it and paid attention.
One other thing that makes this particular editing choice a good one is Anna's body language, not only does she say "around me" in the dialog, but her arms are literally wrapped around her. I think that's a powerful subconscious cue that shows the brilliance of the editor with the extended version.
I need to find the director's cut! I saw this basically when it came out and I liked the story. It was a very relevant way of showing how a person can lose themselves because of trauma, and how that can manifest itself.
But it did feel slow and long. That scene of her sitting on the bed and seeing the stain of blood was FAR MORE powerful cuz it was visceral, and made her sudden run to the bathroom make sense cuz we got to see the trigger.
I'm gonna re-watch this.
The Moment the Director Calls: "Cut" you press stop and it starts recording. Happened to me quite often :D
One of the worst things to happen
@@davidhrzenjak After that embryo position instantly :D
No... why...
yeah I think the focus puller missed focus we're gonna have to do that one again
Tech Space 😂😂
This is amazing. The ending...is acting 101. She is using her hands against her body to show a feeling. The editor leaving that out and using over the shoulder shot seeing the other character doesn't let you feel what she is feeling....just his reaction. Wonder why tho.
Guessing it has to do with continuity of her hands. Which is always the last thing to think about IMO
I like that you pointed out sound design, about hearing people on the street. It adds so much. This is what made Scorsese's early works, New movement generally, so down to earth.
Great commentary. This shows how studios still bring down the best films with decisions made by people who have no talent for writing good films. Films saved by the decisions of producers and studios make up a pretty short list from what I've seen.
Ehhh in the case of this movie I think it's the director, the studio was probably correct to ask for the shorter version and if they cut the stories he suggested the movie wouldve been more concise, more succinct and a better watch altogether
Sadly, studios ruining films happens more than many people may know. I worked on a comedy that was very adult oriented. When we watched the movie at the studio, everyone laughed and enjoyed the film. However, because the film had mostly adult oriented humor, the studio was afraid that it wouldn't translate to ticket sales. As a result, a PG-13 cut was made and it completely sucked the movie dry of any humor. Suffice it to say, the movie bombed at the box office. I was very disappointed knowing that the original cut was very entertaining. But, the studio's fear around money drove them to cut out the best parts of film. It was like they blindly chopped it up without taking the humor - the point of a comedy - into consideration. It's one of the reasons that I think many filmmakers turn to crowdfunding for their films. The last feature I was a camera man on, was mostly crowdfunded except for the last 4 months of live shooting. And it was also the most enjoyable experience I ever had working on a film out of the 50+ movies I've worked on. The writer/editor/director of that film is writing a new film. We are excited about shooting it. I wish studios had more faith in their productions. Situations like with "Margaret" may happen a lot less often.
Matthew Broderick killed a mother and her daughter due to careless driving in Northern Ireland back in 1987.
Woah
This is a really good case study for trimming the movie length. The 'take out the entire storylines' is a great solution for this problem.
As a new film editor I want to thank you for this video. It brings the message home very well about all the little edits we do, and how timing is critical.
That first scene you look at where they cut out her sitting and getting blood on the sheets... like wow. It turns such a powerfully emotional scene into one I no longer feel connected to.
That ending of this video was so abrupt. Kind of ruined the video for me, I was engaged
Same
I want to say, that’s the joke, but might just be to make you click the Patreon link. 🤷♂️
@@Kojance seems like a unfunny joke
it's the "keep 'em hangin' on a cliff, always leave them wanting more" effect :)
It's called marketing and in this case is marketing his patreon
I hv watched the movie previously(studio version).. the story was so good. as an editor it is a key to learn these specific things.. a small tweek, a small adjustment ( like the car passing by) .. to tell and do justice with the story.
thank you Sir for teaching us these things. these lessons r priceless 🤗
The colour plays a big role in it as well. Watching the scene where she's standing in her room before any scene changes was much more compelling emotionally in the director's cut then the studio version.
In the director/writer commentary for Mission Impossible: Fallout, Tom Cruise and Christopher Mcquarrie said they made a shorter version of the film at the studio's request. Audiences felt it was too long, a little boring.
Having seen Fallout, I wouldn't mind to have the film being stretch out more. I could've watched another hour of that helicopter chase or any action scene in the movie because they were brilliantly directed. Of course there's need sometime to take a break from the action scene to understand what exactly is going on
This is funny considering how relentless the Theatrical Cut feels, it never lets up.
I wouldn't dare watch the studio cut of Margaret, the extended cut is a masterpiece, one of the best films of the decade
Fascinating. Extraordinary work of dissection. Thanks a lot for putting it out!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I love the insights you share about film making.
This is so accurate because I was really interested in seeing this film and when it came out I downloaded the theatrical version, and stopped halfway through because I felt so bored and disengaged. Now I really want to explore the directors cut.
Matthew Broderick in a film about someone dying in a vehicular accident?
Oh yeah true
I love what you break down here Sven and the geek you bring out in me. Details matter as they do in film making.
Personally, I think the story line with the literature teacher (Matthew Broderick) is important because it ties it all up with 'Margaret' and her predicament (from a Shakespeare play). I watched this movie twice, and I did enjoy it a lot. In my opinion, the story line we could have done without is that of the fling of the mother with Jean Reno.
Impressive, for beginner filmmaker.
It was his 2nd film. His first one YOU CAN COUNT ON ME is great too.
This is a fantastic breakdown. Thanks for taking the time to do this
How is Anna Paquin still playing a teenager
Um this was nearly 10 years ago.
@@angellover02171 When we was almost 30.
@@mouzube it was nearly 10 years ago that the movie was released. In beginning of this video he says the movie was finished with filming in 2005 and post production took 6 years.
Anna Pequín would have been 23 at the end of shooting. Not really that much of a stretch for her to play a teenager.
Here in the UK I’m happy to say the Director’s Cut is the only version available in DVD in our country
The extended version is cut to an emotional truth not a physical action (continuity) truth, so after she says "am I even who I am but what's going on inside me..." (wider shot) the next cut is a medium shot favouring her, not the other male actor, with her arms wrapped around herself, in a soothing manner as she delivers the line with a pained expression "or all around me"; it's like the emotion of her action, her pained self soothing matches directly with the line "or all around me" like she's scared of her place in the world + her the look on her face clearly amplifies this.
The mindset of a bunch of these executives is all off, even from a profit standpoint. If your movie is a masterpiece at 3 hours, I will decide to invest 3 hours of my time to watch it. If a movie is mediocre or even just okay, I’m not gonna waste _2 1/2 hours_ to sit through it. You’re gonna make more money off of a well-reviewed movie with fewer daily showings than a bad/mediocre movie with a ton of showings. They botched Kingdom of Heaven, they botched this movie, they probably botched Live By Night, they botched a bunch of these movies and for nothing. They made less than they would’ve with a longer runtime. Show both versions to critics and test audiences. If the 3 hour cut is a masterpiece and the 2 1/2 hour cut gets meh reviews, go with the 3 hour. Otherwise, why did they greenlight it in the first place? Just to slip on their shoelaces at the finish line? What’s wrong with these people? Make your money back!
thank you so much! You made me want to watch so many films to learn about them in detail!
Impressive video. It reminds me of a class I had in film school where an editor gave us his fist cut of a film he did and gave us a week to trim it down to what we thought was right, while motivating every choice. One question though: why didn't you just use scene cut detection in Davinci?
I really love how you broke this down and revealed the differences in editing. Subscribed!
Just started filming this year. You just explained a giant chunk of info I couldn't see to save my life. Huge thank you
I'm not an editor at all and watch your videos for insight and fun but I will give my thoughts on the extended scene, also I have not seen the movie but will certainly have to. I think the difference is that the studio version cutting to Matt Damon's character takes us albeit briefly from her who is the focus. The cut in the extended version doesn't just keep the camera pointed on her but we can see a change in her posture, specifically her arms. When she says 'Not who I am, but what's going on inside me her arms are by her sides, palms facing us as if to direct us to her body, exposing herself to us so when can see her. Then it cuts to her saying 'All around me' and her arms are wrapped around herself as someone might do for comfort, or when we feel like space is closing in around us. The focus on her and her body/posture illustrate what is being said by her. Visual sub-text almost, very subtle and we probably wouldn't register it unless looking for it. That's my take, which may be utter rubbish as I haven't even seen the movie. Though I should go check it out.
Very good analysis man, I really enjoyed watching this!
I thought this was about xmen and got really confused by the beginning
Kenneth Lonergan's film "You Can Count On Me" is fantastic. Nothing but pure storytelling and acting.
Great analysis, thank you again !
Then, I was suprised (10:30) to discover about an actor I did not know : Sean Reno. How funny !!!
Seeing several of your videos, I think it'd be interesting if you took a look at some big, controversial films of recent years, namely DC films: Batman V. Superman (theatrical vs. ultimate), Suicide Squad (the film infamously experienced a Snyder Cut level of meddling) and Justice League vs. The Snyder Cut. Editing, pacing and timing absolutely has a massive effect on these films and BvS itself is an underrated masterpiece, utterly butchered and wrangled by the studio demanding the darker scenes cut out and a shorter run time so they could have more showings in a day. This attempt at cutting the films shorter, making them funnier, and more made them villified in the comic book and film communities and the Snyder films still receive an overtly negative reception to this day, based on the awful studio-mandated edits to their films. BvS actually flows and feels like there's events going on in the 3hr version, while the 2hr30min version snipped everything that didn't focus on Batman, which in turn ruins EVERYTHING the film is setting up. the 3hr version makes it very apparent why certain things happen and elaborates greatly on characters and motivations.
Her head moves differently, too, in the over-the-shoulder. Does that suggest that continuity/authenticity was lost for the price of a teacher shot? I dunno. Off to patreon
I love these breakdowns! It’s amazing what you can pull of out these analyses. Thank you.
Could you make a video similar to this about Heaven's Gate? Watching the different cuts of the film are two very different experiences.
I didn’t know there was two versions
I also heard that Kingdom of Heaven is much better in the director's cut
Excellent analysis. I haven’t seen the studio version but just watched the extended cut and thought it was a masterpiece. I wish more people knew about this film.
This whole video ..the discussion of editing , and story, just riveting.
I Really enjoyed this! Thanks for doing all that work to show how editing makes a big difference. I hoped you had commented on the color choices of each film. The Studio version was warm, and the extended version was cool. Why did they change the temp. of the studio version, I wonder?
Best editing chanel on UA-cam and beyond. Salute man!
Thanks for sharing such a detailed analysis! Much appreciated.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This gives me the answer to why this movie felt so weird when I whatched it. Some scenes where super engaging and yet something felt off. Im glad you made this video!
Fantastic analysis! hats off sir
Thanks a ton
Thank you For teaching us the practicals, thank you so much
My pleasure, really!
Excellent video, but there is another lesson to be learned which a lot of people won't want to hear but might save some pain. If you accept finance to make a film under certain conditions and you don't adhere to those conditions then don't be surprised if the financier insists on having their way.
There are a lot of filmmakers who, for example, agree to a budget they never intend to even try to stick to. They then whine when the financier won't just keep handing them extra money without strings.
In this case, if you have a script which you agree you can make at a certain length and then go a whole 30 minutes longer then you either massively miscalculated or you were knowingly misleading the studio and just hoping they would accept the increased length they had been misled about. You can't really complain either way if the studio insists on a shorter cut as you didn't fulfil your part of the bargain.
Which version is subjectively better is a different matter.
For what it's worth, and not having seen the film, but based on this video it sounds like the filmmaker made a couple of very common mistakes - trying to shove too much tangential material into the available space and then falling too much in love with the footage they had shot. It does sound like it has barely relevant threads which hardly even count as subplots and which should have been pruned right back or eliminated entirely, preferably at the script stage but certainly in the edit.
Another comment I agree with. That Broderick and father mambo-jambo was completely useless, they could have figured it out early on.
I love it, Sven. Very insightful!
I'm not an editor or film person. This was an excellent video. Thank you.
subtlety comes with the price of patience, time is the essence. At many occasions, the only way to appreciate art is to be patience and focus. Sadly, nowadays, ppl chose "fast" over everything else, just like consuming fast foods, nothing but garbage.
I feel like I watched this when it came out on DVD but I’d have to dig out my old notes.
Interesting analysis. Well done!
Though I remember reading somewhere that the 'original' cut by Lonergan is indeed not a complete cut (or it's not a version that was done, color timed and printed properly for a theatrical release, it never was completed in that shape & form), so this so-called "extended" version is kind of something that can almost be considered as the cut he originally pushed for back then. The so-called extended cut for the DVD release was at first assembled from dailes and the sound was also crappier, the score was different, etc. Otherwise, a completely different movie.
So fortunate to see the initial cut of MARGARET in 2011 and on 35mm at the Landmark in Los Angeles. It’s just perfect.
Hey man, if you haven’t already, you should analyze the editing of the Departed, especially the first 30 minutes. It’s mesmerizing.
As much as I despise the damage done by some producers to numerous films and film makers, it's not unreasonable to be expected to do what was agreed to in advance. That and two and a half hours is a generous run time.
Great video, l need to find the extended cut of this movie. Also love Envato I use it for almost every one of my UA-cam videos.
Amazon Prime has both
This was such a masterclass in film editing Thank you sir.
Interesting. Because I've only seen the studio version (it's the only one streaming) and I loved it still. But yeah, I'd love to see the director's version.
The only issue is, it's only in SD and not Hi-Def like the Studio version is. So you get more of the story "better" paced but with a lower picture quality. So I'll have to seek it out.
Great video.
hm... I would like to think that most people don't care that the director's cut is in SD.
Hey bro hope you are well and having a great day so far. Just found you today and really pleased we have your videos are awesome bro. Fantastic editing skills and great footage. Thanks so much for sharing your experience and knowledge with us really appreciate it. This is a crazy length of time. Very cool indeed though, powerful stuff. Thanks again bro. Stay safe and catch up again real soon.
Welcome aboard!
Can you please make a video like this for Batman v Superman theatrical vs Ultimate Edition and then Justice League (2017) vs The Snyder Cut (2021) next year?
I forsee a Master Class series on film in your near future. Really appreciate this...👏🏽
Maybe one day!
Incredible story actually!
Great cast! Also 3 of them are now in HBO's Succession
Can you give a retroactive oscar for editing when the minute changes individual frames of the directors cut vastly improve the movie.
Must admit. You convinced me to watch it before the 3 min mark. I will come back again after I watch it.
Could you take a look at the editing of 'King Arthur: Legend of the Sword'?
rewatching this vid a year later cause its such an eye opener to how editing works (and in some cases doesn't work!)
What? The bus runs over the lady. Why did they think anyone would want to watch this movie?
What a work. Thank you for sharing!
That 'added car' in the scene, honestly made me 'ugh, move!' and immediately immersed me into a movie I've never heard of.
great effort you put into this! bravo
Bravo. Exelent work!
I'm having the same problem of shortening the film. Thank you for the tips.
"Click here for the full analysis" - leads to a 404 page!
fixed. thank you!
God bless people who commit hard on something to bless the rest of us with content like this. ❤ Gratitude.
I remember saying the same thing about the Mathew Broderick storyline when I first saw this film. The 'you can't be smoking a j on your way to the soccer game' moment is... well, odd, even in context.
But yeah, great advice in general. Trimming those smaller things in the edit, the length of a shot etc. may actually sacrifice the emotion of a scene, or at least change it. It's a shame that the studio felt that this was the way to go with this film over cutting some of the looser storylines.
i could never understand why some of my edits first feel a certain way that i love but the more i polished it the less it felt the way i wanted
I got into editing very recently and probably will be up against some seasoned professionals, but screw it. I am taking part !
Hope to learn a thing or two along the way
This film could be so beautiful, it is with the extended version that doesn't feel long. Let the creative people decide! Don't cram more films in a day for the audience, you see it doesn't work out...
Creative people don't get to decide the time... studios and distributors do.. No one wants to give over 150 mins of screening time to a drama lol. If you cannot tell a story within that expected and typical time period then you need to rewrite your script and reshoot your shots. Creative people my ass! This is why a lot of movies are in development hell because creative people can't decide how to tell the story... They have the story idea but no idea how to efficiently tell it.
@@ishananaguru The story how it was originally edited wad great and didn’t feel to long. Why are you so upset? Bad experience with creative people?
Great subject for a UA-cam analysis.
Frame Fu@king ... I’m going to use the hell out of the term now 😅
At least this movie has a story line. Some Movies now a days don't even have a story line.
That is just amazing, Editing is the KEY!
It's all subjective. I felt the pause in walking scene natural and good but the directors cut with the car passing in front was jumpy to me and the car didn't add anything to the scene.
He literally said the car was there to hide a cut.
Right.. it took something away from the scene. But it didn't add to it. It's more jarring than the original to me
the grading on the extended version makes a difference.
Fascinating case study!
Schoonmaker and Marty don't mind combining shots with different action - the arms being raised and then crossed - I used to think as an editor those things would bother me but with the more Scorsese I watch the more I love the commitment to emotion or in certain cases playing with time on wider shots.