Eminem and the White Rapper Problem
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
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I finally did it! Just in time for Christmas
00:00 What is the White Rapper Paradox?
08:39 A short history of White people consuming and creating black art
16:50 White Rap BE- Before Eminem
24:04 Rap's Elvis Pressley (Vanilla Ice)
30:09 What the industry learned from it's failure
33:09 The Great White Hope (Eminem)
46:28 White Rap AE-After Eminem
56:37 White Guy Got Game (Mac Miller)
1:07:50 The White Rapper Paradox
No James Somerton
White Rapper Taxonomy - www.theringer.com/music/2020/...
Everything but the Burden - www.penguinrandomhouse.com/bo... - Спорт
Today I found out that food I see as quintessentially American is actually German such as the pretzel and hamburger which upon retrospect should have been obvious. I apologize to the German delegation I wasn't aware of your game
And who goes out for beers anymore, right?.. Oh wait. 😅Great video man, thank you.
I was gonna say. Ain't no American food original man 🥴
I was going to comment after the video a few foods 😂😂
@@Antwannnnwell... You know those fake highly processed cheese squares which probably isn't even cheese?
That's American 😅
@@Antwannnn most original American food comes from black folks from the south. A big part of that is they had to make do with the scraps they were given/able to get during slavery. The only American white food I can think of are those nasty ass casseroles and gross jello molds with random food from the 60's.
Eminem says it himself, plain as day: “Though I’m not the first king of controversy, I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley, to do black music so selfishly, and use it to get myself wealthy. (Hey!) There's a concept that works, twenty million other white rappers emerge.”
Legendary line
Well said! Always rt in ya face isn't it? ( or the lyrics we 4get to really listen 2) 😒🤔?
He also has the whole song white America which is my favorite Eminem song and that's the song's main theme
Kenny Mason goes crazy I do confirm
@@bruhmomentmaker4979a lot ems fans are conservative but it drives them crazy that he’s full on democrat.
Eminem’s White America was a discourse on it. “Let’s do the math if I was black I woulda sold half/I didn’t have to graduate from Lincoln High School to know that…”
It's cool that he's aware 👍
Many people overlook is even at half he is still one of the top hip hop artist at that time.
That was a reference to some lady saying that about him in an article. Not his own words
@@ddhb223sfynEminem always seem to hate his fans and understand how whiteness helped him crossover the mainstream in a way that wasn’t even available for Tupac
@@blackflagsnroses6013 I don’t think he necessarily hated them but more so angry that they only liked and hated how he was a white rapper. “Some people only see that I’m white ignorin skill”
Sounds weird as hell but it just makes sense you're a dad- there's such a paternal energy from you. I really feel like I'm in the car with my dad listening to him talking about the good old days with this wise aura to it while I'm just in the passenger seat nodding along trying to soak it all in even when I don't understand it all the way
Lol thats how I felt with my dad when he played old jazz and mo town records in the Early 2000’s as a kid, made me do research and appreciate the art overall and I’m forever grateful for it.
This
When I returned to the US in the year 2000 after years overseas, the question was, "How do you know that it's not the 20th Century anymore?" "The biggest basketball player is the Chinese guy, the biggest golfer is the Black guy, and the biggest rapper is the White guy."
is yao ming the chinese guy
@@nutpeg6915 Yup
Mexicans running NASCAR.
Crazy that 20 years later that’s no longer the case
Lmfaoooo
The Beastie Boys actually started out as a hardcore punk band. Punk and hip hop were tight friends in NYC into at least the mid 80s, and still are in certain circles. And they weren't a frat boy band, but that album was full of songs parodying frat boy culture. They rarely played those songs live because so many people misunderstood them. It wasn't until meeting Rubin that they kind of abandoned their hardcore background and focused purely on hip hop, by which point they were entirely different people than those who put the parody album together in their bedrooms.
I'm just listening along, but everyone in my part of the country knew who they were from day one. It'll probably be the only thing I'll be able to contribute in these comments, so there it is.
yep they started out as a bad brains cover band too.
The beastie boys actually did another rock album after they became rapper
There's footage of them playing a TV show with the best punk band the Butthole Surfers
Yea my dad only ever played the earlier era so when I first heard some of their later songs i just straight up did not know who they were
I don't know if you've seen it but Lil Bill here on UA-cam has a video explaining how Punk has always been black if you'd like to know more about it
Every time i hear about "gen z discovering eminem and cancelling him" it blows me... bro we are working adults now ive never met a single person my age who doesnt know who em is and what hes about. Maybe youre talking about those alpha kids
It's difficult to be more wrong on your analysis of European culture in the US. Literally the most popular American foods are German foods: Hamburgers and Hotdogs. Bagels are Polish. Apple Pie is Dutch. French fries are... Belgian. I'm just talking about food here, because it's so easy to refute, but "white" culture is so common and dominant, that you (and the people you use as sources) don't even see it as culture. The same thing goes for: fashion, music, obviously movies etc.
Documentary filmmaking... Which your channel is heavily influenced by, would also clearly be "white culture" under your system. It was developed by groups of majority white artists from America, Western and Eastern Europe, who influenced eachother over decades and elevated the art form. It's just that "white" culture is seen as universal and made available to everyone.
He dropped the ball on that, but is right that they have all been flattened into "whiteness".
@@Amanojaku8 they haven't been flattened into whiteness. They have been made universally available and color isn't a part of it.
This is a take I hear a lot from Americans or people who generally spend a lot of time online - anyone in Europe or looking at "white" (whatever tf that actually means) culture from the outside can see that there's plenty going on there.
I don't disagree with most of the points in this video but this is an issue that irks me, since it's so obviously false that it makes everything else he's saying seem less legitimate.
Yes, he demonstrated quite a bit of ignorance and contempt towards European cultures, and finding that his black culture is therefore more important. It downplays the importance of European cultures, which are different, yes, but only that.
The Vanilla Ice section made me think about Iggy Azalea’s career. She seemed poised to be this big thing and her career never really went anywhere after her initial success. I also remember there was a lot of discourse at the time about her whiteness and the level of attention she received.
Will never forgive T.I for that one lol
She was pushed really hard to be a token as a white female rapper by the labels/industry in those early-mid 2010's. But the put on accent and the videos suggesting she lacked talent went viral. And when it came down to it, she really didn't have much of anything to say in her popular songs. Even though tons of other people didn't either, it felt worse with her because she was being pushed so hard on the media as like this great rapper when she was more realistically below average.
Facts . Thanks for reminding me.@@joelman1989
I still can't believe she had Playboi Cartis baby. Lol
She was awful. Not sure how she got popular to begin with
Funny thing about german food, because germans were some of the first immigrants to arrive in the US, a lot what is considered american food often has it's lineage in german food. Hamburgers tie back to Hamburg, Wieners go back to Vienna etc. So the reason german food isn't really a thing in the US, is because it's just american food now.
"As American as apple pie"... which is German food lol
That’s a common misconception, but apple pie is actually American.
@@bai-ingabangura6388 it is European, brought to the Americas by the English, Dutch, Swedes, etc.
One thing I'll say about Germany is their bread is amazing. I thought ours was pretty good (and it is one of the few things I'm proud of in regards to English food lol) but their loaves are so good. I like the divide between bread meant for toast and bread meant to be eaten as is too - I've always been more of a bread eater and that split between bread and toast works so well.
As a European the "as American as apple pie" phrase always cracks me up
When I was younger I didn’t like Eminem bc he was white and also bc I didn’t like how he had these fans who knew nothing about rap but claimed he was the best ever. It drove me nuts. But deep down, even though I wouldn’t admit it, songs like lose yourself, without me and mockingbird were my favorite songs when they came out. But I refused to put any of his music on my playlist. When I got older I stopped caring about skin color when listening to music, I just wanted to listen to good music. And now I can admit he’s one of the greatest rappers ever. To deny that is crazy to me and always a red flag to whoever says that, that they feel the same way I felt when I was younger. They just don’t like him bc of his skin color. And he respected the culture more than most black rappers. He was the one who signed Slaughterhouse, 4 of the most lyrical rappers at the time, who other artists ignored bc they rather focus on money signing some average artist who had a marketable image instead of the artists they knew were the most talented and deserved to be in the spotlight.
You're right man.. i honestly enjoyed the video and watched the whole thing.. but his not so passive aggressive racism towards white people throughout the whole thing made it difficult to accept anything as fact
@@Browash Yes absolutely. There’s a line between a culture vulture and a white rapper who respects the craft. He’s pretty much saying any rapper who is white is a culture vulture. We need to get past that.
Also signed 50 cent which was pretty huge
Shimming in not to argue with your point, but to say that just because two people reach the same conclusion, doesn't mean they went through the same reasoning. I also have the tendency to look down on people who have opinions that I used to have but have since discarded, because I assume they're just behind me on the same line of thought, and will eventually catch up in due time. But that's not correct because they might've had an entirely different line of thought, or they might even be much further ahead than me. You can never tell.
@@motherlove8366 Yes, I do agree with what you’re saying. Just bc someone doesn’t like Eminem doesn’t automatically mean they’re being discriminatory. Everyone has different music tastes and that is a fair point. But if you are a real hip hop head like this guy seems to be, I can understand saying Em just isn’t your style of rap. But to try and downplay him like he isn’t one of the greatest you have to be hating. Maybe you don’t like his content but his lyrical ability and his talent to put a song together is unquestionable. And this guy wrote a whole essay on him and it is clear he is being subjective and disliking him just bc of his skin color. He has no real critiques towards his music besides that he is white and therefore not a great rapper. He says his albums don’t hold up with no actual reason as to why they don’t besides that he is white. This man is undeniably racist. We need to get past always looking at skin color and just judge a man by the type of human being they are. I’m tired of the racism and just overall obsession with the color of another man’s skin.
As someone who is Latino it’s so weird to me how obsessed this country is with race
Have you been to Latin America? Every post-colonial country has to deal with race relations, that’s just the consequences of our history
That's what happens when a country is founded on racialization.
As an Asian person I sort of agree, but I think it's not so much that the country is obsessed with race; it's obsessed with white & black. Fuck the rest of us I guess lol
Sure bro, latinamerica is not extremely racist to indigenous people.
Even though Latin America had always struggled with race relations and inequality, the racism towards natives and black people never got to "white shit" or "black shit". In Brasil, at least, there is not much explicit segregation like in US, but still, racism is a thing. We're are just not obsessed with race by pointing who does belong or not to which space or type of art
As a "white white", I have to ask- Who the hell is putting raisins in potato salad? I know the joke, but have luckily never seen it in the wild
Chile there are white folks doing that out here. Hell I know white people who put actual corn kernels in cornbread. I pray for them both 😔🤣
It’s yummy 😢
@@osimiri7111 aw man don't hate on "can of creamed corn in the Jiffy mix" thats a low blow
Oh I've seen it, it's a real thing. These people are not southern, it's almost always mid-western white folks or northern white folks.
oh my god thank you when he mentioned it I was like "...am I living in a different reality from everyone else?"
I totally had to pause this with Vanilla Ice being interviewed by Arsenio Hall. As a makeup person, Ice had some of the best contoured makeup I've seen.
Check out "arsheerio paul" (sp?) Comedian paul scheer does that interview and a bunch of others almost shot for shot. It is strange and amusing.
hahah I thought the same. I was like, damn, who did that makeup pre-interview dayum.
Someone ask vanilla ice for his makeup artist
Same page w/everything being said here.
(as of ~5pm 25 April NYC/~9am 26April NZ LOL)
That contour was BEAT! 😂
To be fair! Macklemore has stated that he is very aware that he is a guest in this genre, that it is not his.
and Macklemore has probably helped hiphop culture accepting a little more queer culture. Has he done anything that isnt too mid? Def no! But he did have some okay impact on another part of culture. It doesnt make the vulturarism okay tho.
Agreed. Shoulda bowed out on stage for Kendrick though.
This channel really explains how superiority can stem from self victimization. Its quite literally the worst part of any culture.
Well the superiority of the modern era is almost entirely socioeconomic in many places, and you absolutely see poorer people defending billionaires despite those people literally contributing to their strife in a direct manner (artificial price inflation, cutting employment, fighting against reasonable tax rates, lobbying politicians for exploitative policy or a lack of policies preventing exploitation, etc) and indirectly increasing wealth disparity to the point that those individuals are effectively poorer overtime as a result.
It's a conditioning thing, you condition people to believe something long enough, and don't give them the education necessary to actually think about the situation in a critical manner, often times they will either self-destruct or keep themselves down without realizing it.
Kid's who don't do well in school get told they are stupid and discarded from what is seen as "educated society" meaning they have far less of a chance to hike up the socioeconomic mountain (because it's way bigger than a ladder now) to attain a position usually handed to some trustfund baby straight out of University. That's just one example, but by and large you are told over and over your place in society, and that leads to supreme inequality (that can be racial, socioeconomic, cultural, and so on) when everyone believes this in the right way to proceed.
If people keep telling you something, you might eventually believe it if you don't have any other input.
"What's German food?"
Me (a German): Beer?
Beer isn't German though 😂 The tradition comes from ancient Sumerians and was then spread through Europe by Germanic and Celtic tribes.... but the early Germanic tribes are not the same thing as the modern German country 🤔
@@TheKatriinaThat's... not true? Beer predates civilization. There's evidence of very primitive brewing equipment going back 13,000 years. That's like saying the ancient Egyptians invented the concept of clothing.
Germany does have specific types of beer that they invented.
Hamburger, Germany based on the sandwich. Bratwurst
@@Kharizmah Yeah these things are probably most common, but I would say that there isn't one real "national dish", but there are many different regional dishes, that vary a lot between the regions. I'm from a coal/steel region, so the dishes are mostly really cheap and rich, to be affordable and fill you up. They are often based on potatos, Bacon and Apples (because they're abundant) and a very special regional sausage.
Mac was mentioned in the Control verse for a reason. He’s respected in hip hop cuz he kept true to it and put out quality music when the bullshit started taking over.
Yeah, I think FD just was out of the era and isn't aware of what Mac's overall influence is. Imo where FD falls short in this is that he's focused only on Mac Miller (and white artists in general) as a solo artist when his artistry encompasses more than his own discography.
Mac put on TDE, Rhapsody, Odd Future, Vince Staples, (and probably more if you listen to interviews) etc in a way that no one else was. This isn't to credit him with their success, but he could have stayed in the G-Eazy/Lil Dicky lane and probably made more money, but chose to branch out and give back to hip hop in a way that many artists don't. That's why he's celebrated by rap fans the way he is unlike most others are. He used his whiteness as a platform to more successfully elevate black artists in a way that no white rapper has done before or since (again not to take away from their greatness, but listen to the TDE boys and Vince talk about Mac and it's clear as day that he saw their potential before most others did)
Mac was a different type of hip hop artist, I found his creation of beats (like Tyler) just cemented him as a true creator, along with how his later tracks. he didn't use the genre to act out but to present his internal struggles but in a respectful way. If that makes sense.
@@TheMakaveli31don what do you mean by mac put on tde, vince staples and rapsody?
@@tokuyou3811 Specifically for Vince, Mac produced one of his first mixtapes and took him on tour as a supporting act in 2013.
I think most Hip-Hop fans would agree Mac deserves a lot of respect but the quality of his music doesn't completely explain the amount of recognition he received. If it did, Smino, Earl, and Noname would be just as famous.
Thank you so much for putting the lyrics of the songs on screen! I always struggle understanding english lyrics but having text on screen makes it much more understandable what its about
The Eminem Show is not mid
It very much is buddy
I think the term "mid" being used here must be shorthand for "midway amongst the top fifty hip hop albums ever made". Either that, or people are just talking utter nonsense.
@@melo2942not his best album but people these days overuse this "mid" term. I don't think it means what yall think it does
Deeper than that, it comes across as so intellectually dishonest. When other rappers cited and lauded for their greatness have catalogues filled with "mid" offerings that don't live up to their 1-2 classic album(s).
I agree with you. I mean, if someone could at least explain why they think he's mid it would be great, but for what I know about lyrics (I know shit about music) Eminem to me it's an incredible writer. Like, top tier. Super creative metaphors, great verse composition, skilled with multiple literary devices, like anaphoras, alliteration, juxtapositions, motifs, paradoxes and it uses everything to expose some dark part of his mind, seriously or in jest. I cannot see how that's mid.
His critique of Mac Miller is spot on; the only point I think is missing is how well Mac describes and discusses his battle with depression and suicidal ideation. IMO that is the main reason so many people find him unique and exceptional.
Agreed but defo doesn't take away from his initial point. Geto Boys - Mind Playing Tricks On Me explores those very topics and came out in 1991
@@jordyjohnathan5123but when they did it it's primitive and level one
@@NogGonnaMakeIt i hope your joking
Yo he couldn’t be any more wrong😂. One thing is that he’s wrong cuz most ppl would say that 4 Your Eyez Only is one of Cole’s best. Second Mac just makes rlly great music regardless of his skin color if he were black he would be known as a rlly good artist and if anything if he were black he would probably get more credit for being as diverse as he was. His point is disingenuous and FD has to admit he’s just out of touch talking about him😂
@@NogGonnaMakeIt "primitive" do you hear yourself
I'm thinking about Em’s acceptance speech at the 2003 Grammys where he named people like Masta Ace and KRS One as his influences which is probably the first and only time those artists have been so much as mentioned at the Grammys.
Yes! As KRS said in MCs Act Like They Don't Know "if you don't know me by now I doubt you'll ever know me. I never won a grammy, I won't win a Tony". Great line! :)
Yeah... And it's a damn shame too!!!
He always pays homage
@@df1phantom Not enough. This dude gets called, "The greatest rapper of all time". Eminem made rap FEEL safer for suburban audiences. That's his accomplishment, and nothing else. He certainly is not the greatest rapper ever. He isn't even in the top 50 for me... But I'm not from the right part of American culture so my opinions don't mean as much!😜
@KingKoopa1 I mean but his accomplishments are based on consumer. If our people from the og culture supported like they were supposed to it wouldn't be like that, because buying that album for 13 bucks wasn't a stretch. Even as a young teen I bought the albums of artists I supported
Bro called EM mid. I can't
Eminem is mid.
He mid bro
Rakim doesn't think he is mid. But I'm pretty sure this guy will either say Rakim is mid or being a liar. The eminem hate is real.
People only think he is mid because he didn’t die.
He said he has 1 good album. Insanity.
This was a thought provoking video that made me think a lot about my consumption of hiphop and why I even started loving it in the first place. Keep it up!
It's crazy to me that, being a spanish person, I was taught in school about picasso, and not ONCE did anyone ever mention him being influenced by african art. This video is literally the place I learned that.
Because that's not how it went. Picasso had a short African phase where he painted some stuff based on some African masks he used to collect (one of them very famous, the ladies of avignon), but that's it, the rest of his career and the whole movement of cubism has nothing to do with it.
Its like saying J.K Rowling owes her success to Agatha Christie because at some point she wrote crime novels.
@@hipiticlivi7400having a phase where you make art based on an African American art. That is being influenced by African American art.
@@Starlight-ue8jy not African American. Just African
@@CaptianTwug oh. Sorry.
@@hipiticlivi7400nope. You are very wrong about that. If you actually go through Picasso's discography you'll know that early on he was a pretty normal painter. The first few years he made romantic style oil painting with a little bit of post-impressionism also known as his blue period. And note that this was when post-impressionism was at its peak popularity so none of what he was doing until then was that special. But in 1907 he started experimenting a lot with African traditional mask-like paintings from which he started abstracting (while still retaining the mask-like appearance) for years and then all of a sudden "coincidentally" he started doing exercises in abstract art and what would you know he is suddenly famous. Like his cubist career can be seen separate from the rest of his career but the influence is very real. Even some of his later works like 'girl before a mirror' and 'portrait of Dora Maar' had clear influence from the aforementioned. Moreover he was shot into stardom because of his works around 1907 (which had clear African cultural influence). In short it wouldn't have hurt him to acknowledge that. Also Picasso is a misgynistic dick. So there's that.
As a Caribbean person who grew up in the 90s in Toronto I have to disagree with your assessment of Snow. He had personal and very close ties to the Jamaican community in Scarborough. Snow grew up with many Jamaican friends in his apartment building and learned to speak patois authentically. I know people who grew up with him and can confirm this.
That's exactly what MdotR is going thru now
Snow grew up in housing in North York near Fairview Mall Toronto . He surrounded himself with the culture and imitated ( embraced )very well . The real reggae artist of the time was Whitey Don . Anybody of that time knows Whitey Don lived the life of a Jamaican in Toronto but Snow switched based on crowd . I’m somebody from the time and grew up around the scene . He’s right .
Absolutely not 😂
I agree, I grew up in Etobicoke, the man did a lot for the community here. Not many Americans know that the projects in Toronto are very mixed, racially.
My thoughts exactly
It’s honestly disrespectful to not bother researching his life
“Irish Canadian” is an disappointing, reductive way to describe Snow
Wow. This is my new favourite UA-cam channel. Now I have like 10 of your videos in my queue.
Macklemore at least admits that he's a guest in the black culture and the rap scene
I was so scared you were gonna go the whole video and not talk about Mac Miller. He was such a gem. He (like em) never had to try to push his way into black spaces/ rap cause he was genuinely authentic. Genuinely appreciated old school rap, and was always himself. Always. I miss him so much
He paid Lord Finesse 2 mil for the Nikes on my Feet sample and never made a big deal out of it.
Him and Kendrick Lamar would be a great duo
His death hit Pittsburgh like a fucking meteor. His posthumous album was so beautifully done and it’s one of my favorite albums of all time to this day, but I have to be careful when I listen to it because it can make me tear up.
He sucked
@@viralgayguy I don't feel like his death hit Pittsburgh nearly as much as it should've and he never got the level of love he should've. There's way too many people in pgh who define hip hop strictly as gangster rap & top 40 shit who have never paid attention to the type of music Mac made.
And I've never in my life seen a city w so many white dudes running around listening to gangster shit and trying to portray their skewed stereotypes with no understanding at all of hip hop culture or the cultures of poc
"Most beloved white rapper of all time, Paul Wall."
I felt that.
Paul is probably the only white rapper I’ve genuinely seen black people whole heartedly call their own without question. Dude could literally do no wrong
I feel like everyone loves Paul Wall besides Tom MacDonald fans and people who just hate rap/hip-hop
His hits fucking hit hard fr
What’s crazy is I just found out a few years ago he was white. I always thought he was Hispanic 😭🤣
Who is this guy Everyone's tlsking about. I have no clue who Paul wall is lmao
Eminem got so big & I think he knew why and didn’t want the Elvis label.
Damn man, you got into it. This was sick. I didn't come expecting the dive into historic context and what not, new here... I'm definitely here for this type of content ♡
I got to see rap metal Vanilla Ice in 1998 and it was interesting seeing someone with absolutely no self awareness doing something that felt like trend chasing, yet was still too early to the party to actually be that. It's like he was somehow aware of how big Limp Bizkit would be just one year later and tried to cash in on that but had negative credibility. Also for the live show he just had a DJ and a fog machine and was just up there strutting around talking about how he doesn't get any respect, and then he'd break into a rap for a little bit. It was one of the oddest, saddest and most unique musical performances I've seen
too cold
😂😂😂@@pfblack
The character of Fred Durst was just so extra, he made that band
The thing about Vanilla Ice is that he never needed the money. What this guy says in his breakdown of Ice's career is true - Ice didn't become a rapper to chase success or fame. Ice was wealthy from the start, and is still wealthy to this day. The guy did rap because he loved doing rap, and when that fell apart he just do what else he liked including revisiting music in whatever way he wanted. He never hit the charts hard again, but never really tried to.
Something you might not know: Big L was a huge influence on Mac, he talked about him all the time while he was alive and how much he loved him.
Back in 2009 he would regularly mention that j coles the warmup was an album he went to regularly for emotional support. He also gave a lot of people a push they really needed to break into the industry ( Vince staples, chance the rapper being the biggest names I can think of, but there’s many others)
Big L was an insperation to em aswell, on Ems earlier track infinite you can hear his punchlines sounding like L.
Masta ace was also an inspiration for Em.
Schoolboy Q
Big L and Mac's influence on Vince Staples is soooo real tho. He's my current favorite and Ramona Park was my top on Spotify Wrapped this year. Straight up couldn't stop listening to it.
@@MadMaximothat video of q and mac miller playing laser tag and baseball when mac was in a bad spot mentally is one of my fav ever hip hop related videos, it's so funny. love q, one of the most likeable rappers
Rapsody too
Incredible video. You are very talented at articulating your point of view and making it digestible and convincing to people who might not totally agree with you. Don’t understand why you don’t have more subscribers tho
White art not giving credit to black art can be said, but a lot of black artists take influence from other cultures and act like it came from thin air. Black art is influenced by other cultures as well and I feel like that needs to be acknowledged. 9:35
Absolutely. Americans are very multi cultural and we all influence each other in so many ways. It's a beautiful thing.
I come from the Hardcore (punk) and Metal scene. It's really interesting to me that you're saying rap is starting to die and everything is becoming rock, because we been saying the exact opposite and say rap is where it's at while rock is dying and stuck in the early 2000s and before.
Bro, fr. All I ever hear is how rock is dead metal is asleep and hardcore is stuck. We are all going to be taken over by mix tracks and hip hop.
I personally feel like rap is still at the forefront of music but people are getting tired of it and returning to older music as well as applying rock and other influences to rap, I listen to a lot of rap and the genre feels like it’s innovating and growing towards other genres way more than it was just a few years ago
I think Ice Spice is the harbinger of doom for rap. All hype, no substance. She's one of the biggest names in Rap right now & doesn't even have her own album. Total industry plant
soul glo?
@@Kapricorn.Musick nah your buggin
I think that jazz had a similar problem in the 1950s and '60s. People like Stan Getz, Bill Evans, Paul Desmond, Dave Brubeck, Chet Baker, and more, although great musicians with respect for the culture, were massive commercial successes not because of their musicianship, but because they were white and appealed to a white audience.
It's kinda just music in general that has this issue
Makes me think of Shakatak
@@nomadnuka716 That’s true, but that’s because popular music is now black music. I mentioned jazz specifically because it’s an intrinsically black American art form that now has a reputation for being white and pretentious.
It’s more white people in America so of course there gonna be more support for a white artists it’s simple math lol
@@krissv3ctor512 does it tho?
Thank you so much for making videos, I really learn a lot every time I listen to them!
Damn bro I haven’t watched a video of this length in a while. Great at captivating your audience!
I think ending the video with the message of showing love to the artists we respect rather then giving artists we dislike more negative attention is a great way to finish the topic.
Btw, to anybody who wants another great rapper to listen to, Black Thought has a probably one of the most amazing discographies I’ve ever heard. If you like rappers with meaningful bars and a smooth sound then you’ll love Black Thought’s music.
Black Thoughts freestyle on funk flex is genuinely unbelievable, such an incredible talent.
@@mackieincsouthseafr!! He spit a whole college education worth of knowledge in that 10 minutes
@@spencerhinds2803 actually mind blowing stuff huh, truly a master of the craft!
@@mackieincsouthsea do you prefer his work with the roots or his new solo material?
Black Thought has been in my forever 5 MCs FOR YEARS! His freestyles are next level and unmatched!
I think the reason Mac Miller is so beloved by people (white especially) is because of the reflection of his growth and evolution in his music. Through high school hangouts, wild partying days, burnout, and rediscovering life a lot of us grew up with his music growing up at the perfect time
but also we never would've had that if he wasn't white
I think Mac has never seemed like a culture vulture. He's grown into a rappers rapper who puts meticulous effort into his songs
Mac’s Larry Fisherman era saved him. Producing for Vince and hosting basically all of the L.A. music scene was very good for him. Blue Slide Park killed his momentum amongst serious rap fans and that’s when the Frat kids took to him in full. But he was smart enough to not go the way of Chris Webby and follow Asher’s path instead. Asher->Mac is pretty much a parallel to Lupe->Kendrick. The former is lyrically superior but the latter took it farther with more accessibility and playing nicer in the industry.
Mac Miller is a massive trend follower, and terrible at what he does.
@@Dead_Goatbait
@@otterdonnelly9959I am unsure what Asher Roth song would lead you to think he had better lyrics than Mac
This was a really good video, a lot of good information and great organization, just subscribed ;DD
what a phenomenally nuanced video - like actually unpacking stuff and examining the roots of different ideas and cultural narratives. that clip with the alley-oop analogy put it in such a beautifully succint way, but i love that you continued to get so much deeper with it. well done man
Preface: I'm latino. I think Eminem's popularity also comes from him rapping about things relatable to everyone. Poverty, broken home, addiction, clawing your way to the top, etc.
Thats a good point, but if those topics are relatable, then many black rappers would have reached Eminem levels of international popularity yearsssss before Eminem, but they weren’t.
That’s been what black rappers have been rapping about since the beginning of the genre, no one had more to say about all of these exact topics than black rappers that came up in the crack epidemic. So, if they’re talking about the same things, the same pain, same suffering, the same dreams of clawing their way out into a better life, what’s the difference between Eminem and the hundreds of extremely skilled & talented black rappers that came before? I’ll save you some time, *he’s white* lol and we all know that historically in this country (although this seems to thankfully be slowly changing), black voices are treaded as so unimportant that we could be screaming “🗣️THERES A FIRE” in a crowded building and it won’t be until a white person confirms that they too have seen the fire that people stop looking at the us like we’re crazy & finally start to run out.
Therein lies the paradox of Eminem cause that’s not his fault, and I personally am a big fan as well, but without a doubt his whiteness was what propelled him into a good 95% his popularity/status with only the 5% remaining accounting for actual talent. That’s not to say he wasn’t talented, any real hip hop head that listens to Eminem can very clearly hear that he’s a student of the game and is for sure skillful and great at what he does, BUT had his skin been a little (a lot, actually 😂) less pale, his message would have been ignored & paid dust just like the black great rappers of that time.
@@TheWorld-MyOyster Well, that's why the "also" was there. Being white definitely helped, but it was a combination of that, the relatable topics he rapped about, and his desire to make it big rather than stay underground. The perfect storm, so to speak. Honestly, I don't blame him for going after his dream. There are way worse white people out there who just use black culture because they can. At least Eminem is actually from the hood.
I’m an aspiring white musician who is looking more into the Latin music scene ranging from cumbia batchata guaracha dembow and reggaeton pop i fear the same paradox but it seems to have a natural gatekeeper of having to learn Spanish to participate in those genres and I’ve done that so I think it forces you to be extremely passionate about those genres and cultures and I hope it doesn’t attract racist leeches
@@TheWorld-MyOyster It could also be the fact that you wouldn't get the shit beat out of you or ostracized for singing his lyrics word for word.
@@TheWorld-MyOyster Maybe Eminem became that popular globally because he's that good, and race has nothing to do with anything? cuz he's also popular with Latinos and other countries.
What I loved about Mac was that he carved out his own space but never TOOK up space. He was always cognizant of his place in the culture & wanted to give back to it instead of eat off it. Most real hip hip lovers appreciate him most for that.
I feel like you’re missing the point of the video. Max Miller wasn’t TRYING to take up space, and yet he still did because he’s white
Real
What I respect about him is he managed to hit Ariana Grande. And that's it, to me his music was average at best..
@@MAtRiXAgEnTFoXMuLDeRwhat a thoughtful opinion lmao
People keep saying this basically missing many points made in the video, this world is cursed.
That conclusion (and the whole video) was very well-said
Wow, the amount of work and knowledge in this video is stunning. Thank you for sharing this quality content with us!❤
It’s amazing how Beastie Boys’ cultural impact in the 90’s for a huge sector is so slept on. They had 4 albums hit #1 on the Billboard 200.
I do think he downplayed/overlooked their impact in this video
You gotta fight. For your right
@@gummyboots Do you think it would've altered the message the video wanted to explore, though? You are right, the Beastie Boys had a tremendous influence on pop culture as well as influence on the genre. But ultimately, doesn't that illustrate the kind of point he closed on where commercialism and whiteness as a construct collide?
@@dragonprismBeastie Boys were revolutionary in many ways, but their music was less borrowing from the rap genre and largely at its forefront, changing the art form to make it their own. It worked because they make it applicable to them and their world.
Eminem was the first great to stay true to the cultural and economic foundations of the art form.
Drake had more
Idk why that’s all you had to say about the beastie boys
You were 100% right on the battlerap stuff. NEVER let Mook go first, and never let him battle you in new york. Bro literally controls the crowd and can just take rounds from you out of nowhere.
That was an uphill fight for Solomon that night. Plus it was 5 rounds.
Yeah I've never seen someone get eaten alive so viciously, it was like a whale swallowing krill
@@fnytnqsladcgqlefzcqxlzlcgj9220gotta check out Canibus getting gagged, choked, beaten to death and revive again and then hung out like Sunday laundry in HIS battle rap clips. Canibus vs Dizaster
@@fanrosefabrose9457 sure I'll check it out now lol
Edit: Holy shit... That is just... Wow. Like when you watch a video of someone getting like industrially smashed, he's just flopping around after being dragged through a machine like "what just happened" still trying to bring a notebook to a rap battle afterwards like his organs hanging out and shit
That close-up " I cant imagine what that feels like" was priceless. 😅
Fantastic video. This came up in my algorithm after watching Eminem's new video. I was like "psh, 1 hour 17 min, I'll skip though parts of it" but I got drawn in and watched the whole thing. Great content, and thoughtful criticisms. Definitely gave me a lot to stew on. Keep up the content, this was really solid.
Eminem has been solid with the culture for decades, never spoke out against black people, stood for black causes, put on black artists exclusively, was put on by black artists honestly the fact that so many black people hate on him still annoys me, a lot of YT dudes are vultures no doubt but Em nah he stands on business
I REALLY enjoyed him calling every one of his influences out when he was inducted into the Rock Hall. It really showed where his allegiances are, and as someone who knew like, most of them... those were some heavy names.
@@QKingPhilly "druski voice"
He litearly made a diss track on black women. I'm not an anti Eminem gal, he's okay I generally like him. But he's not really this pillar of the community yall people think imo. Like he litearly gets points for doing the bare minimum because he's a white rapper, while black rappers have to go above and beyond or they face criticism
Lol he hate on many black ppl. What black cause has he fought for.? Also he embodied alot of the wrong problems with hip hop
Yeah he spent a lot of effort trying to erase a racist song he wrote about black women
He also profits from the culture without giving back to the vulnerable members of the community
Like, he has great PR, but the evidence is damning
I think the argument about Mac being overrated is a little skewed because his death definitely propelled that in combination with his whiteness, which tends to happen to artist regardless of any other factor. People really compared Mac more to his internet rap cohorts over bigger mainstream artist like J Cole when he was still alive. Most of the GOAT conversation around him didn't exist until after he died and the divide between mainstream and internet rap got more blurred like it is today. Also so glad you mentioned Kenny Mason, if you like them check out Paris Texas
the trio everybody still loses their shit over to this day was mac, earl, and vince. as a young black hip hop fan, earl is my favorite rapper period and i fw mac even tho im not a huge fan of him because he pretty much helped cultivate that darker alternative rap shit. in 2014, he dropped faces and pretty much gave vince staples a career by producing and directing vince's stolen youth mixtape and getting him shows.
that's why i personally respect him so much.
Paris Texas next big thing might get that tatted on my teeth. No one doing it like PT, Jean Dawson, Kenny Mason, Teezo, and Kevin Abstract.
No offense but isn’t J. Cole also one of his internet rap cohorts?
J. Cole also took off through a series of mixtapes around the same time as Mac Miller. Same could be said for Kendrick, Chance, all of OF, Big KRIT, Danny Brown and many others of that era
@@kyleistrying Mac came out a little earlier from what I remember, but most people still lump him in the “Off Future” branch of that era than with Cole, Kendrick and co even though they’re all really from the same era
@@kyleistrying initially yes, but by the time 4YEO came out Mac wasn't talked about alongside J Cole. J Cole was a much bigger artist than him after 2014 dropped and I only ever heard J Cole compared to Kendrick (and sometimes Drake and Kanye) at that time in terms of quality. I guess my point is that he's comparing the reception of projects to show that Mac was overrated due to whiteness, but at the time when those projects came out no one was considering Mac a better artist than J Cole, because you never heard them compared in the first place, and that Mac's death is when people started really giving him his flowers
Other than MMLP, his catalog is mid at best?
Eminem show?
SSLP?
yeah he said it at least two different times and i wasnt sure i heard it correctly until the second time. its a wild thing to say his a top tier lyricist, while being aware that he was regularly produced by dre, and also said his catalogue is mid.
Eminem Show is exceptionally mid. And SSLP is not good aside from three songs.
@@K4L-ZL I would love to see what your top hip hop albums are. I fail to see how Eminem show is mid. Can you elaborate? SSLP is a great project imo, but I see how it isn’t for everyone
The eminem show and sslp are both mid, he isn't mistaken
@@melo2942 crazy take. To each their own I guess. If Eminem show is mid then a vast majority of hip hop albums are mid. Lol
@1:10:50 i had a similar experience with my daughter. tried to get her into rap (my hip hop). then i realized i grew up in brooklyn. i have experienced the harsh realities these artists spoke of.
she is a sheltered kid from the suburbs in north carolina. of course there will be a disconnect.
I'm a middle income black man from Jamaica. I grew up listening to Nirvana, Rage, Nails and Pearl Jam on one side, Wu Tang, The Firm, Outcast, Dirty South (No Limit, Trick Daddy, Cash Money, etc) Bad Boy and Death Row. As a third generation Cuban, I also vibed to a ton of Latin Music.
I say all this to add that many people tell me that I am not "black" because of my middle income, multi-cultural upbringing. I liked "The Heist", I loved "I love College", I like Eminem.
I hate when ppl say things like "you're not black" because you like what you like. Don't want to be classed in a stereotype but still want to call others "not black" because you like something outside outside whatever. Bro keep being you and music and all art forms are to be enjoyed
Someone else understands the struggle. You just described my upbringing exactly! Too white for black people, to black for white people.
Come on!!!! this narrative is so drained 😑
I'm a middle aged working class white/latina woman and mother and I have to say I could have written your comment with the exception The Firm and Dirty South! Even the down to what I listened to while I worked my way through community college!🤣❤️
What did your comment add to this discourse? Like that sucks and all bro, I can relate, but that has nothing to do with this conversation. This is about white people in the African-American diaspora of hip-hop. Your comment did not add to that. It was more self-serving therapy. And honestly, I suggest you make a video about it. Not even me trying to talk shit. I think your perspective is something that should be added into the diaspora. And being 25 right now and black there’s a lot more black alternative music, rock ‘n’ roll rock grunge, and those people are making it black, even though it was already black by history. I think you should look into these artists because it would be therapeutic to see yourself as a rockstar all love, bro.
This clarified literally everything for me. I grew up in a small town in the Balkans. In the USA I'd be definitely considered white. Allow me to share my perspective.
Hip Hop for me was the gate to the rebellious phase of young adolescence. I was probably the only kid in the town that tried to pass completely as a devoted rap fan. I wore my pants down for 4 years before I reluctantly started to listen to other music genres. I tried to present and make myself perceived as rap geek. In all honesty, I became obsessed with Eminem and in the beginning I was listening to him but soon I moved to local artists (in my country everybody was underground in the early '00's). It was through these local artists who mentioned artists like Wu Tang Clan and Public Enemy in their tracks that I found out about them.
Then, I had this realization that these artists were the real thing, so I decided to listen only to black rappers. I clearly remember my enthusiasm when I listened to Brother Ali for the first time and then the borderline disappointment that I had when I found out they were white. For me blackness proved the authenticity both of the music and the message in it. At the same time, my lived experience had nothing to do with the story-telling of my favorite artists.
When eventually grew out of my self-imposed limits in music, I felt more relaxed and I decided to just enjoy the music based on its merit. This eventually led me to an overwhelmingly black playlist, but that's probably because their music is just better.
What sealed the issue was a road trip I took with a friend in the Southern States ten years ago, my only visit in the USA. It was eye-opening. Within three days on the road I had realized that hip hop wasn't just an aesthetic product among others that I could pick up from a shelf. It was a genuine popular music, meaning a people's music. It was the equivalent of my country's popular music, that is the music that emerged out of the self-expression of the workers and the most oppressed people of the society. I realized that it's an actual living thing that speaks to the needs and desires of millions of a specific people that find in it something that I as a white-skinned, non-american, european, non-poor person would never feel it in that way.
Beside my own psychological issues, I treated hip hop as a predominantly aesthetic product. I consumed the music and performed the culture as music collector. I didn't wait for my local rapper to drop his new EP; I scanned the 90's catalogue for the best tracks based on music reviews. I hadn't (and I couldn't have) any clue about the social and political context that produced this art, let alone the perspective of a black person that lived through that decade.
Now I am 34 and every year my spotify wrapped is dominated by Hip Hop. I still discover some new artists but since I am old my interest in music has decreased enormously compared to my teenage years. But this is the just result of being obsessed a genre in your teen's. This genre will always be your favorite one. For me this is Rap.
Incidentally, I turned out leftist and fully in support of BLM when it comes to US politics. But I know that this would have happened regardless of my fascination with a specific part of american black culture.
After this video I can confidently say that understand a good part of how the consumption of Black culture served my own needs in the search of identity. This was done away and without my participation in any actual black social setting. So, if this post serves a purpose is maybe to give another way a non-black person can benefit from black culture in a self-centered way.
This is an interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for your perspective my friend
I really enjoyed this comment and as a fellow Balkan person can understand the perspective. Great read!
where are you from?
Brother Ali isn't white, he's an albino
By the way, I can't help but respect this guy for not deleting it getting upset about my comments. Despite the fact that I disagree with pretty much everything about this, he has tolerated my admittedly not as respectful as it always could be rants without resorting to name calling or personal abuse or bitching. That's a man there one with integrity that values free speech. I apologize for every thing I said that may be disrespectful, I didn't mean it it was out of frustration and even though I don't agree I do appreciate you so thank you.
It’s amazing how much research is into this!!! I like it
“They’re favorite rappers growing up we’re Eminem or maybe Drake and it shows”😭😭
I died
Kendrick Lamar's favourite rapper is Eminem. At least, he is top five for him. J Cole said the same. Danny Brown, etc. Does it show, aye?
@@grantkerr8298 It does show, and that's why they're some of the best rappers of the last decade. Kendrick has gone on record to show Eminem was one of his biggest influences and you can see it in both his lyricism, his cultural commentary and his ability to quickly and easily switch flows.
Working at a record shop, I heard "I don't like rap, but Eminem is good" a billion times!
em is still good, doesn't matter if you like rap or not
"the new ice cube, motherfuckers hate to like you"
i know what you mean, i want to see more about why though specifically
Yeah and they're all either wearing Carhartt or nightmare before Christmas hoodie. I moved from Minneapolis to rural michigan. It's f*****
thats crazy bro you mean people might like a specific artist and his eccentric music over generic shitty rap songs that all have the same gimmick? you must be really smart
The samething was said about Elvis and Rock n roll. The names change but the game is the same
“German food? We found German tourists. We are cooking them”
I watched this video, an felt like i was taken a class, an for once i was interested enough to actually pay attention.
Im really appreciating this content.
As a white guy with family that grew up in poorer neighborhoods in the midwest and they were huge fans of eminem, dr Dre, snoop, tlc, spice girls, that kind of music. I was born in a homeless shelter for pregnant women and we got a house in 3rd grade but my family has very racist tendencies and your opinion on this is very eye opening and i have learned alot from your vids
🙏🏽
Thats what it's all about baby, learning about each other will bring us closer.
I’m an aspiring white musician who is looking more into the Latin music scene ranging from cumbia batchata guaracha dembow and reggaeton pop i fear the same paradox but it seems to have a natural gatekeeper of having to learn Spanish to participate in those genres and I’ve done that so I hope it doesn’t attract racist leeches
@@cheetahluv210I swear you're a spam bot. spamming on a video like this isn't tasteful.
I almost went to bed, and left the last 30 minutes for the morning… but that last 20 minutes with the unraveling of Mac Millers legacy really hit me hard.
I appreciate you and your work
@fdsinifire just stumbled onto your content today, learned a ton, it's brilliant. Curious about the "failed horror-core" do you have more content about this topic?
I also, like an idiot looked up Tom MacDonald on Spotify and before taking a look at the albums and track names I foolishly played a garbage song titled "FACTS" and I saw the icon said "with Ben Shapiro" and I was like ohhh shit this ain't for me. That is some full on dumpster fire ish.
Wow! Fantastic presentation of an incredibly nuanced situation. I'm hooked.
I think that much of this would have happened regardless of eminem. I grew up in a white rural community and many kids were not into eminem at all but were into Lil Wayne. I think the acceptance of black music came with the beginning of increasing normalization of some aspects of black culture among even entirely white communities with no other black or urban influence aside from media.
It happens with all cultures of all things. If it becomes popular, ppl everywhere will want to do it too. Its cultural appreciation not appropriation. Gatekeeping is wrong
@@Pyramanager idk that gatekeeping is inherently wrong, but you’re right about the appreciation thing for sure
@@PyramanagerExactly
People criticize Em for that when he gives credit to all the founders of rap more than everyone else.
@@PyramanagerThey own the industry so no one can "gatekeep" anyways
I think you hit on a really big thing when it comes to music culture and music making. Speaking as a musician, I believe there needs to be a level of authenticity in the performance that is informed by lived experience. Hip hop fans seem very sensitive to this and can smell an inauthentic artist from a mile away. It’s really cool to see that more clearly explained and fleshed out in this video.
hip hop and punk fans both share that weird sixth sense for spotting posers 😂
@@idontwantahandlethough Gatekeeping is supposed to be an immune system for a culture. If it's underactive, that culture loses the purity of what defines it, and dies, dissolved. If it's overactive, it turns stale and inbred and dies, calcified.
As someone who was deeply involved with punk before most people had internet access, I'm not sure that same paradigm of proving "authenticity" or paying dues even works anymore, and it's starting to seem vaguely stupid in retrospect; the structure of communication that culture gets shared through is completely different, but I think we're still thinking like it isn't. If I wanted to make zines or trade tapes again I *could*, but it would be almost historical reenactment, deliberately going out my way to do it how I used to have to but no longer do, just for the vibe of it.
Post internet, especially post social media, Anyone from anywhere can instantly get into (almost) anything, research it thoroughly, identify as it, and interact with anyone else in that mode. Naturally, inevitably, without any thought that this might be unusual or unacceptable. Especially people from cultures that might have no stake in whatever conflict is going on in that area, like a Finnish rapper in 2010 does not really give a shit about being white or black, or a "white rapper" like a 90's US white rapper had to, because Rap is about beer and hockey and being a goon, like it always has been and always will be.
That's just reality now. Everything is accessible, and over time association feels like authentic ownership, and.. maybe just straight up is? Like in that Futurama episode where Fry fights his own brain parasites. He sees them as recent invaders of his space, and the parasite rightly asserts that he's a 9th generation or whatever native. "My great great great grandfather came over on the sandwich". He's not wrong. It's how his whole world always has been.
@@idontwantahandlethoughthis is so true
This was true over 30 years ago, not now. Hip Hop's old guard was destroyed in late 96 after the deaths of Pac & Big. Puff [who was mostly hated] used the death of his artist to usher in the "jiggy era" which killed off the gate keepers in hip hop culture. There hasn't been a new style in rap since 97... It's gone on so long, these modern hip hop fans can't even differentiate between a real organic grass roots artists and a industry plant [which the majority of these artist are].
Dance music scene is the same way in many ways.
They don't tolerate abusers, ghost writers, people who steal shit, don't pay vocalists, don't credit artists, don't pay artists that perform at festivals, and the typical unknown faceless dj in a mask. Cringe ass shit meant to take the piss.
Every community has to gatekeep a little bit
Man. Just. Just perfection. Thank you. You got a new fan and subscriber off this one. 🙌
Thank you for being so open and real and creative.
Came for El-P, stayed for the Jack Harlow slander
El-P is the fucking man!
I never forget being locked in.. and I was in a cell that housed like 15 people and one night we was dicussing the best rappers of all time and I was literally the only one in the room defending Eminem. They said he not even allowed on the list😭
Sounds like defending Eminem in a black barber shop or high school (my experience). At times, you found community. Other times, brutal. Lol.
He definitely not allowed on the list wtf 🤦🏾♂️
@@kash_1085^ and this is all it is. Ppl enforcing the Eminem hate like it’s a hard rule, without any real logic. sometimes people wouldn’t need to say something all the time if it was true.
@@kash_1085 it's funny because he's on your list's list.
@@kaseyines And? Don’t change what I said. Eminem a mid rapper that gained clout because he was a white dude who could rap half decent.
I never start to watch a whole hour video from suggested videos by youtube but ey, man you speak nothing but the truth, even thou you had to put it softly I still enjoyed it 😅
diggin the chapter titles
As a 35+yo white man from the US Midwest, I can tell you that I've never heard of raisins in potato salad.
he made that shit up fr
Yeah I don't think this dude knows many white people, dude comes off a lil prejudice. Could just call people rappers instead of white rappers or black rappers.
Did you even watch the video? Rap is a traditionally black space and genre.. any person that is talking about the history of white musicians in a black dominated genre such as rap needs to say "white" or "black". And if words like that scare you in this video, I implore you to do some soul searching on why that is because you're just being sensitive for no reason. Lock in intellectually bro, it's 2024, too late to be making comments like this unironically.
@jawoncurry9022 lock in intellectually bro... lebron, jordan, and kobe can never be considered the best since basketball was created and played by white men. Black men came along and did it better. Just like Eminem came along and blew the rap world into outer space... not his fault he sells records... he was a respected battle rapper in racially divided Detroit. Grow up man, that white boy is lyrically superior to 99% of rappers regardless of skin color.
@@MLDEG45 bro i can tell you don’t read cause you just said a bunch of nothing. A better point would have been Luka being the best player in the NBA rn (which is a predominantly black league). No one said it’s not possible. When did I ever say Eminem wasn’t a good rapper, I’m a fan of some Eminem. You’re just projecting 💀💀 and btw I can name 5 rappers off the DOME that have received commercial success and universally rival Eminem. Please don’t try to talk music and sports with me you’re going to lose every time.
As a black Eminem appreciater, I appreciate your take on this. I think he legit loved the art but I can definitely understand the type of doors his success opened for people didnt deserve it.
I'm sure you'd say the same if it was the other way around. "Yeah Tiger Woods was good but a lot of black golfers now get attention that they don't deserve." I'm sure you wouldn't say that is racist, would you? Also funny how the amount of new white hip hop fans he brought is often skipped. As a white person who listens to hip hop exclusively now because I found Em relatable when I was young - there are 100s of black artists I wouldn't know if it weren't for Em.
Ultimately, who 'deserves' success is not something you or me decide. Otherwise, I'd love to sit here and talk to you about all of the 'rappers' that can't even pronounce a sentence in English - plenty of them that are successful.
@@user-er1fs3je4x Who are these black golfers though?
@user-er1fs3je4x where are all these black golfers taking over the game and exporting it to a majority culture that's changing that space?
@@user-er1fs3je4x I mean the less talented not because they're white. Easy. I'm not your enemy so stop trying to force beef where there isn't any.
@@user-er1fs3je4x At a 'certain' point, 'you' have to 'reign' in your use of "quotation marks". Especially if 'you' are going to criticize 'other' people's inability to speak 'English'.
that battle rap line at the end really summarised everything
As a very white man from canada, my take on white rappers is that as long as your pushing the culture forward and staying in your own lane, i’m here for it. I don’t (and can’t) understand the impact these figures may have on the greater cultural, but i see artists such as yung lean as being so drastically different from the rest of the rap scene that it’s hard to even quantify.
Damn, that was good. As a white dude who went to a majority black high school and rapped in cyphers, I definitely got a benefit from being the only white guy there. I was never that good and yet really good rappers would include me and not trash me half as hard as black people that were better than me when I would flop. Never really knew how to articulate what it was but that basketball analogy was spot on. This video was wildly cathartic for me lol
Bruh, the bball thing... I felt so much. I'm Black so I knew wtf it was , but held my tongue cuz the white boy gettin' props was my best friend and I didn't mind him gettin shine. ... to your point.
@@Merchantwun Felt it as well and felt it was fair.
What I wanted F.D. to get into though was the other end of this paradox.
When your Eminem, or say, JOKER, or Bird (cue Dennis Rodman racist rants), and peers won't acknowledge your quality and go from giving you a pass because your white to weaponizing it.
@@MerchantwunI make sure to let them know. Idc if they’re my best friend. 😂
from being in countless cyphers.. i can vouch for the Original Post
@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 😆😆😆
i'm glad you touched on eminem getting played on rock radio because that drove me nuts. i was keeping tabs on alt radio's top 40 playlist at the time (when Radio & Records magazine and Mediabase 24/7 had that info up online for free) and Eminem cracked the top 20 on that chart at about the same time The Roots' Seed 2.0 was tragically languishing around #39. i was pretty sheltered but even i had a moment of "that is some bullshit right there".
Yeah that always bugged me too - rock radio Djs lacking creativity so they play Eminem tracks because... he's white?
No he was played because the music was popular and marketed well. @@brientaylorcohen
And that’s Em’s fault how?
@@brientaylorcohen^
Kerrang (UK) used to do this too
This was such a joy to listen too. Your breakdown gave me a LOT of food for thought. The White Rapper Paradox specifically is such an interesting talking point. Glad I clicked on this in my recommended.
It's an interesting paradox, but he didn't engage with one side enough. He didn't delve into how Eminem has delt with racism form people like Lord Jamar
Great vid! Question for ya, who was that rapper you mentioned before asap rock? I can’t seem to find him anywhere I wanna give him a listen
There’s a great quote used frequently in the podcast Binchtopia. “Bitches hate nuance” Basically it means that people don’t like the discomfort of nuanced topics. They want it cut and dry and it never is. You should feel comfortable making everyone a little uncomfortable by challenging their assumptions.
So long as you creating that discomfort are comfortable with people challenging your views in return and making you feel the same slight discomfort as well, i think that's an excellent rule to live by
Exactly the problem on the internet is that there is no nuance
When it comes to race people only make blanket statements
“White people are this way and black people are that way” as if all white people are the same and all black people are the same”
He's missing tons of nuanced here, to the point I'm getting irritated enough to comment
@@saratongel You can't expect all the nuance from one source, FD has his biases and angles and with them he adds a valuable perspective. It doesn't need to be perfect and any one individual cannot embody the entire cultural discourse.
Can I share an anecdote? I have a linguistics degree from a university outside the US, in a country with a fairly small black population, and not a lot of huge black rappers or musicians in general. I was part of a seminar where we had to give presentations on similarity and rhyming in linguistics, and one student chose to present a thorough analysis of rhyming in what he called "black music" (that's what some people here refer to as rap, hip-hop and R&B).
His entire presentation was (completely unironically) about Eminem.
That's it. That's the anecdote.
Makes sense, as he just pulled from the greatest example of the culture.
Lie to yourself, not us @@psychopompous3207
@@psychopompous3207 Rakim? MF Doom?
@@brinnd330 YOU know the answer. Are you high right now? The others you've named aren't even in OP's comment. Please stay on topic.
🤣
Just found your channel. Absolutely staying for the ride.
I kept an open mind and for the most part agree or at least I understand where you're coming from.
That being said, saying 4YEO is a similar album both sonically and thematically to The Divine Feminine and Swimming is just totally missing the mark.
It is not a black vs white issue that dark, gritty, extrospective, socially conscious music is not as popular as more uplifting and hopeful music. Swimming and The Divine Feminine have their dark and extrospective moments but it's a fundamentally different thing than what Cole did. Cole made an album that sounded underground and talked about a lot of heavy shit. Systemic racism, police brutality, gang violence... Etc. topics that J. Cole's admittedly large white fanbase don't identify with as much. On the other hand Mac's works feel more introspective and talk more about maturing, coming into your own as a man, deciding how you want to live your life and becoming the person you want to be.
Uplifting and hopeful works are just more accessible to a wider audience than these thought provoking think pieces. The albums are just fundamentally different and so are the audiences.
I imagine Cole's fanbase, although pretty white, still isn't as white as Mac's. They're going to be interested in different stuff, and a white guy rapping about his white experiences without prolific and sometimes excessive use of the "n-word" like Cole does is just going to be set up better for success whether or not the albums are sonically and thematically different.
This one section proves to me how much you conflate and narrarivise your arguments. Much like right wing conservatives, facts and opinions cannot exist separately from the narrative you are trying to push. I get it, it's a video essay about the negative effects mainstream white culture has had on rap, but you can make that point without saying things that are just not true and anyone who has really listened to and enjoyed these 3 albums knows intuitively that they are fundamentally different in terms of sonics, tone, theme, history, and audience.
I'm glad you called out that 'missed opportunity' - i experienced that as a teenager, and as everything broke apart as I got older, I thought the same thing. Funk, Hip-Hop, Ska, punk, metal...there was a point there where everything was in a pot and stirring and then...it just...spilled. Sad when you think about it.
That period in the late 90s and arguably all the way through the 2000s was a missed opportunity that ended with the massive commercialization of many of the things we love. Then began the era of California Gurls, SMH.
@@That1J1 it's so sad. I remember a time when it was like, you could listen to public enemy, NWA, run DMC, the beastie boys, a bunch of grunge bands, some alternative bands, ska, and it was a 'if you get it, you get it' sorta thing. Right? Am I remembering that right?
@@cdeist1remember the Vans Warped Tour and shows like that? The most diverse crowds and acts I’ve ever seen. It was an amazing time that we didn’t fully appreciate while we were in it.
@@faustopancake234 bingo. I remember going to one in the mid 00s and it just felt lame in comparison
@@cdeist1 bruh, that reminds me of a funny story. I went to one a few years before it fell off. My friend and I actually kicked it with the Blackeyed Peas!
Do you remember when they started out as an underground hip-hop group before they sold all the way out? This day they were super humble and were so excited that we could quote their lyrics and shit. Will I. Am gave me a big ol’ hug and just kept dappin’ me up, like he was so happy to have fans, lol. We hung out for a good twenty minutes just chopping it up. They signed everything we had and gave us some free merch, still have some of it actually. They were really cool.
It’s just crazy and surreal to think about when you consider where they ended up. Doing the halftime show at the Super Bowl, having their shit on every commercial that existed for a good five year stretch. Sold out so hard that it’s low-key impressive. I remember seeing an interview where Will said “I got tired of keeping it real and being broke” and you know what? That’s kinda fair. At their height, they probably wouldn’t even acknowledge me, or maybe have security throw me out if I tried to say hi and drop the “remember when” on them.
Life is crazy.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling story, our convo just reminded me of that surreal shit. Hope you have a good one homie.
Seems more likely that Mack Miller had a young audience that he developed that liked him, and that propelled him forward, leading to his fame and wide reception. Music commentators tend to compare everything to the past, but are woefully unaware that most of the fans of new music are new people without even awareness of the past.
that's what I loved about Mac and Tyler growing up in retrospect. we were growing up and going thru phases simultaneously. Tyler once said he was uncancellable because by the time everyone was in outrage over what he did, he'd already grown and moved on
but that is those younger fans ignorance to propelthese artists to G.O.A.T status without knowing the background
@@onyxgothicc The question is what do the older fans of older musicians not realize they are ignorant about regarding even older music and how it led to their music?
Yes Kenny getting some love! One of the best up and coming.
The em hate is honestly ridiculous. The entire reason for it is that 1.he's white 2.he's successful. And then when the argument is revealed for its true shallow and stupid nature. They then attempt to perpetuate it by bringing up generic dumb shit that most of the industry is also guilty of. Or they use an unreleased song where he's being all edgey cause he was feeling emotional at the time. Yall find some better shit to do instead of just randomly try to take away from people and tear them down
As a big Mac fan imma weigh in on why I believe he deserves his legacy. Mac's instrumentals are fantastic and his bars are underrated (Ex. Faces) but I agree that he didn't reinvent the wheel. There are other artists with less notoriety who surpass him on one or both fronts. But what Mac did better than almost any other MUSICIAN is packaging his whole self into his music. It's a seamless blend of humor, fun, love, depression, passion, apathy, guilt, and shame that unmistakably humanizes his catalog. Listening to his mountain of unreleased songs on youtube literally feels like hanging out with a friend. And yes, it's not really targeted towards older people, but as a younger consumer the honesty in his music validated some of my feelings, guilty pleasures, and fears literally for the first time in my life. I believe it's his honesty that caused the impact we still see today. Undoubtedly, his whiteness helped him immensely in the acquisition of an audience, but his humanity retained it. He cannot be swapped out interchangeably with any other artist because his shit's too potently distinct once you get to know it. It's not a lotta other artists who accurately encapsulate the intricacies of day-to-day life. His music's rarely on a big scale.
that being said, I am white and this undoubtedly factors immensely in the way I relate to his art. So, if anyone else has other artists they feel the same way about, please share below! I'd love to befriend other artists the way I befriended Mac Miller.
Super well worded, and I’d like to add: Mac also GROWS so much over the course of his discography. FD mentions this a little when discussing how he moved out of his “frat boy era”, but going from KIDS, to Faces, to circles really is like watching Mac grow up. You see him become more introspective, sentimental, loving, and thoughtful while still being Mac. This is especially impactful for a large part of his fanbase who were growing alongside him while his music evolved.
@@Oliver_but_digital His journey is actually mirrored very well by Tyler the Creator. They both got their start in the same space and had similar growth and acclaim upon reaching a more matured and variable music. I think Mac Miller's production gives him a lot of credibility but I think looking at Tyler shows how fans reward growth, especially as they grow with the artist.
I’m also a Big Mac fan, I love me some burgers
@@Purriah😑😂
There is a reason this part of the video is getting a lot of comments pointing out the Mac Miller opinion being off while the rest seem to agree with everything else. This was just FD finding a way to be “factual” about not liking Mac. It’s just so when people say “oh you don’t like Mac Miller?” He can point and go “well because of whiteness blah blah blah” and not seem like an old head who just doesn’t like newer music because what he was saying NO ONE says. No one legit has Mac Miller as the best rapper of all time just their favorite and people in the community don’t like that people have favorites who differ from who is objectively better so they feel the need to “prove” your opinion wrong because you dare say you like an artist music more than what the general consensus of who the best is. It’s annoying.
The only thing I found a little lacking was no mention of MTV and its influence on white suburban music tastes. You mentioned radio, and that was truth when alternative music stations in my area absolutely bumped Eminem right from the word "Hi", but music videos played so much more of a role than radio, IMO.
I have loving memories of Yo! MTV Raps!, the Fat Boys, Run DMC (literally "Run DET" shirts are still everywhere here in Detroit to this day), and watching Vanilla Ice dance didn't come from seeing him live, nor did watching Third Bass beat him down in effigy using pimp canes. Eminem's early videos showcased an irreverence that enhanced his lyrics, and the look of NWA's "Straight Outta Compton" was so instantly iconic Chris Rock could go "Straight Outta Locash" with instant recognition of the parody.
Also, in the middle of the rap-rock era, the popularity of soundtracks like "Judgment Night" and "Last Action Hero" exposed a lot of kids that just wanted to see a movie with Denis Leary or Arnold to groups like Onyx and Fishbone and Cyprus Hill.
Also, not one mention of Kid Rock in his earliest incarnation as a fake street rapper? He was vile from Day One and the only people pumping his music were cruising Gratiot looking for hookups, but he parlayed that and his whiteness into the only reason anyone even talks about him today.
I rarely wish video essays were longer but I kinda do with this one, unless maybe a sequel talking specifically about video and its influence on that scene?
Loved the essay, just want your take on those couple things. Kudos.
Man my first memory of Eminem was that he was in Total Request Live and he commented on an artist being presented along the lines of "I like them, they keep it real" and Carson Daly goes and ask him "can you explain what that means, keeping it real?" and man the look Eminem gave him was so annoyed.
I was expecting a kid rock mention too. He’s garbage and the way he screwed over all the people that took him in and helped him early on is so disgusting.
@@HotStrangeKid Rock rascist p.o.s. 💩 ✊🏻 🇩🇪 🇨🇿 Looked for a confedrate flag emoji but, surprisingly, couldn't find one ?! Lol... 🙏🏻🙂👍🏻
Videos are not more important than RADIO. 😅😅😅😅 Wtf do you think it all started??!
CB4!
I'm sorry, but you don't give Eminem nearly enough credit. You mischaracterized Eminem's biggest album, The Eminem Show, as a novelty act, when in reality it was his biggest album.
Sing For the Moment, alone, is totally unique in it's musical soundscape, subject matter, and the raw, vulnerable emotion that it evoked.
The way Eminem could paint a picture on his first three albums, is right up there with Biggie, it's just a totally different set of emotions and subject matter, but that in no way makes it inferior.
Eminem's new material is below mid, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that his first three albums are legendary.
Great video as usual. As a Gen X Mexican hip hop fan of love to see a video from you about the relationship between Latinos and Hip hop. Especially concerj9ng the West coast and our influence on urban black culture (example low riders) thnx
Finally someone who addressed Em and Mac with the nuance they deserve. You articulated the argument with the precision and tact I’ve come to know and love you for👌🏿
I’m white, and I 100% agree. Finally someone that can show both worlds without hate, and showing that they do have links, they have their own story, but sometimes they do toutch. And Em is just, one of a kind. And thank Dr Dre for giving him to the world and perfecting his art.
@@alexam6959 or you can all focus on real problems and real issues without dissecting the minutiae of non-existent issues. There's a thought.
@@KyarrixIf you dont think it's important, why are you here? Lol
@@KyarrixWhat are real problems to you, and what are you doing right now to solve them?
@@Kyarrix”can we talk about the political and economic state of the world, right now?”
God Macklemore winning that award over Kendrick still boils my blood
I don't remember how good kendrick is... but from memory, the 3 rappers, drake, jcole and kendrick... drake has clever lyrics but raps slow, kendrick raps fast bust his lyrics are not clever, and jcole is somewhere in between, faster than drake but not as fast as kendrick, and smarter than kendrick, but not as smart as drake... so it's reasonable that to the grammys, kendrick was too basic for them, whilst macklemore was more innovative
@ItsameAlex Kendrick has some of the most clever rhyme schemes I've ever heard. he won a pulitzer prize for DAMN.
@@ItsameAlex😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 delete
you dont know rap @@ItsameAlex
@@chuck569469 i just remember listening to kendrick and thinking he's not as clever as drake
Did you get through the whole video without mentioning 50 Cent? I only thought to mention it because of the bit where you were talking about rock radio playing Eminem but no actual black artists. Which I totally remember from the time, except (at least in my country) 50 Cent got a lot of play on the same kind of stations. Was that not true in the US? Or is 50 Cent a whole other discussion? Love your work either way