Thanking you for your work in making and posting these videos. It might just help a fair few of us hunters out there to become more educated about our bullet selections and thus more ethical and effective too, when it comes to killing game well.
This is fantastic info. Thanks for doing this. I still cant decide on which bullet of the two for long range hunting in my creed. Edit; After watching your videos, I decided on accubond lr for my new long range hunting 6.5 rifle for 200+ shots. Thanks for making those vids. Edit: I went with a 6.5-284 and accubond lr
Careful with the ablr. They seem to do fine at long range, but inside short to medium range, they disintegrate quickly and retain no mass beyond a couple inches. My own experience and several other reviews that I've read.
I could not find this info and so I invested in what I needed to gather and share this info. Very few bullet preform well at high and low velocity's and I wanted to make sure I could hunt ethically knowing the bullets I was using would work just as well at 50 yards as 700+ yards these are two that I have tested that will for sure out perform in the window range I hunt in.
Thanks for the video. Let me get this straight. You turned to the manufacturers of the products and asked them advice on what would be the best environment to test their products in. They of course gave you the most honest answers to risk their product not shining and losing customers. I guess you are hunting inside the meat processing facility after the bones and hide were taken off the animal, you just shoot the meat (before that you make sure that the meat is thinned to match the 10% ballistic gel). Makes perfect sense LOL
It takes as much practice to become great at stalking as it does to become a great shooter. Both require skill and practice. I've seen people miss a deer at 50 yards, while some people can hit one at 1000 yards. The most important thing to me, is attempt things beyond your skill level on paper or steel targets. Stay within your shooting ability on animals. I have no problems shooting extreme long ranges at paper or steel targets, but I personally wouldn't shoot beyond 300 yards on a deer...maybe 400, but I've never tried it. If you practice at 100 yards, then you probably shouldn't shoot at a deer past 200.
If you practice at 800, and consistently hit the target, then 600 is like shooting 200. Especially with lazer ranger fingers, a kestrel wind meter with ballistic applications, and MOA dialed turrets.
This is excellent thank you. I would live to see a similar test with these at say 50 yards. I think it is pretty clear that these bullets work as they are designed at long range. But I don't think it's so clear how they hold up at close range when they are traveling much faster.
Killed 2 bucks with the same ELD-X. These bullets tend to grenade inside the chest cavity at short ranges in my limited experience. First buck was a little over 150 yards. Very small exit wound and no blood trail. Dead about 25 yards away. Second buck was shot just over 100 yards. There was no exit wound because the bullet exploded on the opposite side ribs. Dead about 100 yards away. Both shots were just behind the shoulder and resulted in ethical kills. However, I won't use this bullet again because I am mostly looking at shots 200 yards and under and I really want a good blood trail.
@@outdoors4life884 In my limited experience, that is correct, no blood trail at all using 143gr ELDX 6.5 Creedmoor. I have read many people with similar experience who didn't care because the deer died fairly quickly. I live in the South and I am not the world's greatest tracker. I'd like a good blood trail if at all possible because the thick stuff can get kind of thick.
I will be doing more test with these bullets in the future hopefully I can actually catch some in the gel low velocity loads tend to penetrate deeper and veer it can be hard to catch them. In this test I was unable to recover them.
Factory precision hunter eldx Easily shoots under an inch with my savage desert tactical. Surprisingly the hornady 147 eld match was all over the place for some reason. Actual velocity out of a 24" barrel was 2594 fps im guessing this can vary quite a bit from lot to lot. Thank you for your testing
These were hand loaded, I have noticed with factory ammunition velocities can very from lot to lot. I still use the 143 ELD-X for whitetail deer and antelope, I switched to the 142 ABLR for elk. I have one rifle that likes hot loads and I was getting over fragmentation and under penetration with the ELD-X and that problem went away using the ABLR. Both are good bullets you just can't push the ELD-X to fast. I was driving them a little over 2900 fps and now use them in a different rifle keeping them at or below 2600 fps and they do much better.
@@simplemindedfella if you don’t mind me asking, how do you push the creed that fast? 28-2900? Reloader 26? I have a 22 inch barrel and I’m interested in trying to push some velocity.
@@Ringtail273 I have gotten my best velocities using RL16 Work up slowly. I have one CM that can handle a lot more then my others. 2700-2800 fps not hard to obtain 2900 + fps is cooking for a CM.
Have you had good luck w terminal performance on the albr? I have some 7 rem mag at 175gr and see mixed reviews and a little concerned. Elk and deer is it's purpose.
I use the 142gr in my 6.5 Creedmoor and the 210gr in my 300 win mag and have had great success. I did harvest a cow elk one year at maybe 70 yards with the 6.5 Creedmoor and the bullet didn't hold together and penetrate as well as I would have liked, still went down fast. I would think the 175gr ABLR pill in a rem mag would be really good all-around, little much for antelope but not really underkill for elk.
I am a die hard accubond LR user for my 6.5 and have taken deer out to 550 yards with it. Have only had a few run beyond 50 yards after being hit. I run a Christensen Ridgeline with a nightforce and it's an absolutely deadly accurate rifle. On the other hand, I use my grandfathers Winchester 94 in 32 special with open sights for anything up to 75 yards and I actually feel better about taking a deer with it than I do my high dollar setup.
My primary 6.5 Creedmoor is an older Browning X-Bolt Western Hunter, I use the 142gr Accubond long range bullets and have harvest whitetail to just over 600 yards. My buddies son used it and took a cow elk at 400 no issues (I haven't shot any elk over 200 with it) The ABLR is one of my go too bullets in a few different calibers.
Like the video, but, if you're not going to be shooting game at 1600 yards, why test at those ranges? Why not test at an attainable hunting range, like 1000 yards or less? That would be much more interesting to me. Thanks for the video.
I didn't work up a reduced load and that's just what the math comes out to with my first attempt, I now use a different powder for my reduced load to get a little higher velocities. One of my intents was to see if the factory ratings are accurate. Come to find out dependent on calibur they are not... The average hunter probably shouldn't shoot past 300 yards and sport shooters that like to kill should hunt and not just rely on their well practiced shooting skills...
ABLR is a bonded bullet ELDX is not,I have taken deer and bear out to 400 yards and as close as 120 yards, that being said the ELDX fragments and separates where the ABLR doesn’t , tested on game and not on gelatin
10% ballistics gelatin is the standard set by the hunting bullet industry as a test medium for use in testing a bullets terminal performance campaired to the average huntable medium to big game animals. I to have used both in the field and have all but moved away from the ELD-X because of over fragmentation and under penetration mostly with shots within 100 yards. They are great for whitetail deer, antelope and other medium sized game. The ABLR is one of my primary go to bullets as it is an excellent bullet for medium and large game.
That is one I am planning on doing over the winter. My next few videos are going to be on factory ammo. The main reason I don't put out more videos more often is this is an expensive hobby and I have concluded the testing for the bullet I personally wanted to test.
what kind of velocities and groups are you getting with the 142 ABLR. What powder are you using? I just got a 6.5 creedmore and plan on using the 142 ABLR but I can't find much info on it..
IMR 4451 and reloader 16 5 rounds .252 inches @ 100 yards with my last testing moving the 142 gr ABLR @ 2816 average using RL16 and CCI 200 primers ( I won't give charge weights you need to look to alliant for that and work your own load up for your gun) I have had these shooting sub MOA at over 2900 fps but decided to slow them down a little bit as I didn't like what they did to game at closer ranges. @ 2816 they still have more then enough velocity and energy out to 500 yards and most of my shots are well within 300 yards. Personally I don't think it wise to be shooting game past 500 yd with any short action non magnum or hunting in general for that matter. It's not really hunting anymore when you're getting that far out. I've heard good things with the H4350 and recently I have seen that available in my area I've never used it mostly because I like to buy my powder in lots severall pounds at a time so that I can keep consistency and I haven't seen more than a pound or 2 on the shelf at any one time. Both the powers I'm using are supposed to be very insensitive to temperature changes and I would say they are the reloader 16 seems to be a little more insensitive and gives me a little better accuracy and velocity.
Every rifle is different. The ELD-X tends to be easier to find an accurate load with, I haven't had issues with my Creedmoor's getting the ABLR'S to shoot just as accurate. I really like the better stopping power of the ABLR over the ELD-X (at least that has been my experience in the field with medium to large game such as mule deer and elk). If Hornaday would bond the ELD-X I would probably use it instead of the ABLR.
Back calculating your data, what you are stating would put your muzzle velocity of around 3650 fps from a 6.5 Creedmoor.. With a 142 ABLR or a 143 ELDX your pressure would be astronomical. I hope your being safe. The vid is great but I think the data is a little miss leading with the velocity you’re stating. Just don't want anyone trying to think they can do this cause it would probably cause a case rupture.
I don't shoot the same loads anymore and do not remember what velocities I was getting or what ballistic app I used at that time. If I go to Nikon's spoton app and select 6.5 Creedmoor and Hornady's precision hunter leaving the altitude at sea level I am about right on with what I state in the video for simulated distance. Also on my Strelok app I still have my info for my current load using the 142 gr ABLR, it shows the shot being a little further than what I stated in the video. Not sure what else I can tell you.
The 143 ELDX shoot same hole at 150 yards for me. Haven't tried the ABLR, and can't find any. Which bullet do you prefer - I'm wondering if I should load some ABLR. About 400 yards is my sporting limit (I can consistently keep a 6" or less group).
I stopped using the 143 grain ELD-X because I was getting overfragmentation and underpenetration, when I switched to the ABLR that issue went away. (Really wish Hornady would bond the ELD-X) I still will use the ELD-X on antelope as they are a very accurate bullet out of all my CM's. Just won't move them over 2600 fps so I don't have to worry about them coming apart quite so bad.
The hunter gets the bragging rights, not the shooter. Anyone can pull a trigger at 400 yards. Few can close that distance to under 50 yards. Shooting game at the ranges you suggest in your tests with this cartridge isn't just unethical, it's totally disgusting. Thanks for the vid.
50 yards is unethical. Using a gun to hunt is unethical because of the advantages you have over an animal. You should only be allowed to stalk within sprinting distance of your game. In the case of deer and elk, they're very fast, which means you should be close enough to touch them before you can use a gun. I'm making these rules because I'm terrible at shooting
@@scottgreen6538 There was that one time I got really close to a buck only to find out he wasn't any bigger than a billy goat, not worth the price of a bullet. And not wanting the embarrassment of bringing him back to camp, I ended up beaning him on the side of the head with a pinecone. He was so shocked he just stood there as I laughed and walked away. Sounds crazy I know, but does that count?
The taking of game for food AND sport is the definition of hunting. Not being capable of accomplishing that technique, or not personally wanting to do it, doesn't mean you get to trash the brothers that do it. We have enough antihunters out there without having people that should be out allies turn on us for hounds, stands, thermals, long range gear, or different sets and style.
@@doghousedon1 that sounds like copium. I hunt with a 3030 at close distances when it is warranted, and I dump deer and elk at 600 when it's the method of choice. I'm not out here to pretend I'm Davy or Daniel, I'm here to slap salt and pepper backstrap on the grill.
How do you figure its producing the energy at those low velocities? Also, if it isnt starting to expand until 6 inches in, how is this gonna work on game? On a neck shot, 6 inches can put you out the other side. On a chest shot, you are halfway through a deer/antelope before it even starts to open.
Simply take your velocities punch them into a ballistics calculator and look at the chart and there's the energies. You are correct it does open a little on the late side you would only take out one and a quarter to one and a half of an antelopes lungs looking at where these bullets dumped the bulk of there energy. Having a bullet penetrate all the way through an animal while dumping the better majority of its energy within the chest cavity has never caused any issues for me. I definitely do not recommend either of these bullets for larger game like elk as they do over fragment and under penetrate at higher velocities and if you keep well within an ethical fair game chase distance of 400 yards or less you won't have issues unless muzzle velocities are to high.
I would have to watch the video for context. Yes, absolutely people should become better hunters and not rely on no chase spot and kill tactics. Shooting better in regards to the hunt and becoming a better hunter is a given. Muzzle control is number one of corse followed closely with shot placement with the correct bullet.
Longrangestore.com Is the cheapest place I have found them I do buy them periodically from shooterproshop.com If you don't see them available on the long range store's website then contact them sometimes they don't have them listed on their website. I have only ever used blends when it comes to the 142 gr ABLR and have never had an issue with them.
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Of course, everyone should become a better shot. Now, as far as not hunting and spot and killing of game because Americans impatiular seem to be drifting away from the sporting aspect of hunting than yes we may have a disagreement. I do it, and as long as the shooter has the skills to place a humane kill shot, I don't have an issue with it. Just don't call it hunting when no real hunt is involved.
I have. The industry uses 10% for a reason. Barbourcreek can use what they want for whatever reasons they want to they are long range shooters not bullet manufacturers. I going to stick with the industry experts standard.
Interesting information. Thanks for sharing. I'm intrigued by your starting load for the 143 gr. ELD-X. I'm looking at the current version of the Hornady reloading manual and their lowest starting muzzle velocity is 2400 fps and a mid-range load gives 2,650. Those numbers should give more accurate results.
G'day from south Australia mate. Great vid with great info. When reloading the ablr what type of seating stem and or dies are you using. I have standard lee die now and have no probs with ttsx 130gr, 150gr and nosler accubond 165gr for 308win. Will these do the job or will I need different ones to seat the accubond lr projectile. Cheers.
I did not recover the ELD-X. The retained weight on the ABLR was 139.8 After having tested these bullets I can not recommend the ELD-X as it comes apart to much and lacks penetration at higher velocities. ABLR has a lot broader performance in hight to low rang velocities.
Hit a deer at under 100 yards anything over 2400 fps will rip a grapefruit sized hole through it . The nossler needs range when using the LR to drop velocity and function correctly. I shot a deer at 60 yards using the 142 / 6.5 and it had no heart . at all .
Nosler says that the high end velocity is unlimited. I strongly disagree with them. I have slowed my muzzle velocities down to 2700 fps using the 142 gr ABLR and no longer have the issues with under penatration that I was having. I had to slow the ELD-X down to 2600 fps. Both these bullets are terrible options for anything that has muzzle velocities above the 2700 fps mark. The only lead core bullets in 0.264 that I have tested that I believe may truly have an unlimited high end is the Federal Treminal Ascent bullets.
Your reduced load tests are a invalid test due to the reduction in the Bullets RPM’s. The RPM’s according to Hornady and others , don’t slow down at the same rate as your velocity does, therefore making your test invalid. The only way to truly see what a bullet is going to do at 1000 yds, through an 8 twist barrel doing 2800 FPS at the muzzle, is to shoot your gel block at 1000 yds. Good luck and happy shooting!!!!
Although I agree the revolutions per minute will not be exact it is so minimal that these are the exact same testing measures that the bullet manufacturers do when rating their bullets velocity effectiveness. You would have to say then that the whole industry is wrong and misleading us all. I don't personally believe that to be the case. It is such a minimal effect on the performance and the actual permanent wound channel that's why the industry does their test like this and I've also seen the results of bullets shot into oversized gel blocks at 800 and 1000 yards and the differences in permanent wound cavities and penetration are virtually unmeasurable.
I’m not the expert. And yes, most of the manufacturers don’t have the facilities or time to do the proper testing. I’m not sure most of them have a crew of talented shooters on hand to continually shoot out to the ranges their Bullets are quoted at to perform like they say. I’ve called most of the manufactures of these bullets, and until Doppler radar came along, yes they all over inflated their BC’s or they wouldn’t sell. (That’s a quote from they). Again I’m not the expert. I was told that the RPM’s has a direct effect on how the jacket performs. So, again, the only way to know how a bullet will perform at ANY GIVEN distance, is to shoot it at that distance.
@@devinhawley2898 there is definitely some truth to what you're saying and there is no possible way to get it exact as even ballistics gel itself cannot be made perfect because you have the resistance of the hide that is different than the resistance of bone that is different than the resistance muscle tissue that is different then the resistance of lung matter that is different than the resistance of heart tissue so they came up with a 10% standard to give as a accurate of results as possible yet impossible to give 100% accurate results. The same is applied to the rpm's the difference is so minimal it's nearly unmeasurable the gel I've seen shot at eight hundred and a thousand yards and the measurements of the permanent wound cavities are so identical you almost can't tell the difference. As you said you're not the expert I'm not either let's leave this up to the experts and I will continue to do my test the way I was instructed to do when I reached out to The Experts.
Close enough! Great information! Instead of criticizing, YOU should shoot a gel block at 1000 yards and post it. No test is perfect but this test is close enough to evaluate expansion at distance. I enjoyed the video and appreciate the information.
Where there is multi-directional, tearing is where the bullet opened up when you only have the 2 directional tearing you know that is where the bullet tumbled. That's how you can tell the difference in gelatin whether a bullet actually started open or just tumbled if bullets are not recovered.
Anybody who is honest about these critters knows they browse pretty quick. The time of flight beyond 500 yards allows an animal way too much time to move after the shot leaves the barrel before impact. I agree with you. A few decades back bow hunting exploded in popularity and the trend was to get closer, now it is to get absurdly far away. May as well be a video game at that point.
Only difference is, if you want to take these longer shots you need to put the time, effort and money into doing it right. Someone mentioned 200 yards as average. A few years ago my son's friend's dad and I were talking. He had hunted for years. I mentioned shooting past 600 yards and to 1000 at targets. He said, " If I could bust a water jug at 400 yards I would be tickled". I gave a few suggestions on factory rifles, ammo and scope to start. A few months later my health was good, (full of shrapnel and organs lost). I had him practicing dry firing for a couple weeks. After that I helped him load info in a ballistic app. and practice using it for a week. We set the rifle at 100. Ran his ammo over my chronograph. Loaded everything and off to where he shoots. A farm. When he was hitting solid at 600 he wanted 800 and so on until 1000. We set jugs of water at 1000. He burst 4 out of 4. This after practicing 4 to 6 days a week rain, wind etc. That next year we practiced the same. Teaching him to hand load. He set a target at 700 on his hunting spot and practiced very often until hits were within a couple inches within a 2 inch dot. That season he took 2 deer at that exact 700 yard target. He has since sold that rifle, 300 Win. Mag. He has built 2 rifles now. 1 for Long-range practice and a lite one for hunting. Same caliber 300 Win Mag Lapua brass, N570, Berger 215 Hybrid lit with Federal match primers. I'm sure I left out some things here but you get the idea. He now hits at 1500 yards on target's. If you know your rifles capabilities, ammo capabilities and more importantly your capabilities you can shoot at extended ranges with the time put in behind the trigger. Weather will be a big factor in the shots you take and don't take even within your capabilities. After putting in the time start with varmints. I did this with him and left this out. A shooting partner will be of help. I shoot a 6.5 Creedmoor with his 300 Win Mag. My handloads run over 2800 fps with a 140 gr. Also shoot a 308 Win to 1200 at target's. I have taken Whitetail at 425 with a 243 and good 100 gr bullet. Two steps and DRT. Practice, shot placement and open field made that possible. Again knowing limitations is key.
One simply doesn't buy/build a custom rifle and have the ability take game at longer distances without practice. Also too how many of the clowns in the comments have spent time hunting on the open prairie? Hunting antelope in a flat open chick pea field? As traditional bowhunter I'll be the first to say that getting close is a big challenge. But I also really enjoy sitting up on a bluff with my 6.5 PRC. It's a different challenge. Temps are colder and the wind chill can be brutal. Add hunting pressure and the pursuit for a mature buck. Then all the range time before hand and all the concepts you need to know before pulling the trigger. I used to suck with a rifle. So I got into long range shooting. I haven't missed a shot inside 300 yards since. At the end of the day an animal shot at 10 yards with a longbow on the ground tastes no different than one shot at 725 with a well placed bullet above the heart.
@@ajdube9967 I also found bow hunting one of my favorite ways to take whitetail. I can no longer do to health issues. Why l try to stay with low recoil cartridges. A lot of folks who are fine with pistol caliber hunting need to know that a good rifle and cartridge have the same velocity and energy of a pistol at the muzzle, at some very extended ranges. With the help of Simple Minded Fella hunters know the bullet to use at those extended ranges. With all that said, extended range/long range hunting is different for each individual. Because not everyone is comfortable making that shot. Whether it be from lack of skill, cartridge, rifle, etc. Just because you can't do something or don't agree with it, doesn't mean other's can't. This is evident in many thing's in life. Be respectful of all life, follow the law's of your area and enjoy the freedoms we have. The way the left has demonized guns, shooting and hunting, we need to stick together more than ever. In our hearts we all know right from wrong as adult's. If something feels wrong, don't do it.
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Thanking you for your work in making and posting these videos.
It might just help a fair few of us hunters out there to become more educated about our bullet selections and thus more ethical and effective too, when it comes to killing game well.
This is fantastic info.
Thanks for doing this.
I still cant decide on which bullet of the two for long range hunting in my creed.
Edit; After watching your videos, I decided on accubond lr for my new long range hunting 6.5 rifle for 200+ shots.
Thanks for making those vids.
Edit: I went with a 6.5-284 and accubond lr
Careful with the ablr. They seem to do fine at long range, but inside short to medium range, they disintegrate quickly and retain no mass beyond a couple inches. My own experience and several other reviews that I've read.
@@biggs8729 looking for a bullet to use 200 yards and out, will zero there.
For inside 200 yards I have a different bullet chambered.
DUDE! This is some high quality info.
I could not find this info and so I invested in what I needed to gather and share this info. Very few bullet preform well at high and low velocity's and I wanted to make sure I could hunt ethically knowing the bullets I was using would work just as well at 50 yards as 700+ yards these are two that I have tested that will for sure out perform in the window range I hunt in.
Thanks for the video. Let me get this straight. You turned to the manufacturers of the products and asked them advice on what would be the best environment to test their products in. They of course gave you the most honest answers to risk their product not shining and losing customers. I guess you are hunting inside the meat processing facility after the bones and hide were taken off the animal, you just shoot the meat (before that you make sure that the meat is thinned to match the 10% ballistic gel). Makes perfect sense LOL
Great video! Keep that bullet comparison data coming!
Awesome video keep up the good work.
It takes as much practice to become great at stalking as it does to become a great shooter. Both require skill and practice. I've seen people miss a deer at 50 yards, while some people can hit one at 1000 yards. The most important thing to me, is attempt things beyond your skill level on paper or steel targets. Stay within your shooting ability on animals. I have no problems shooting extreme long ranges at paper or steel targets, but I personally wouldn't shoot beyond 300 yards on a deer...maybe 400, but I've never tried it. If you practice at 100 yards, then you probably shouldn't shoot at a deer past 200.
"Practice long, hunt close".
If you practice at 800, and consistently hit the target, then 600 is like shooting 200. Especially with lazer ranger fingers, a kestrel wind meter with ballistic applications, and MOA dialed turrets.
This is excellent thank you. I would live to see a similar test with these at say 50 yards. I think it is pretty clear that these bullets work as they are designed at long range. But I don't think it's so clear how they hold up at close range when they are traveling much faster.
Killed 2 bucks with the same ELD-X. These bullets tend to grenade inside the chest cavity at short ranges in my limited experience. First buck was a little over 150 yards. Very small exit wound and no blood trail. Dead about 25 yards away. Second buck was shot just over 100 yards. There was no exit wound because the bullet exploded on the opposite side ribs. Dead about 100 yards away. Both shots were just behind the shoulder and resulted in ethical kills. However, I won't use this bullet again because I am mostly looking at shots 200 yards and under and I really want a good blood trail.
@@DreamConundrum so the eldx doesn’t leave a good blood trail?
@@outdoors4life884 In my limited experience, that is correct, no blood trail at all using 143gr ELDX 6.5 Creedmoor. I have read many people with similar experience who didn't care because the deer died fairly quickly. I live in the South and I am not the world's greatest tracker. I'd like a good blood trail if at all possible because the thick stuff can get kind of thick.
EXCELLENT TEST and Video, thank you for sharing!
Your welcome
Would be nice if we could see what the 2 types of bullets looked like after recovering it from the gel.
I will be doing more test with these bullets in the future hopefully I can actually catch some in the gel low velocity loads tend to penetrate deeper and veer it can be hard to catch them. In this test I was unable to recover them.
Mmmm id be testing with bone and hide as you best believe thats going to wreak havoc on them!
Factory precision hunter eldx Easily shoots under an inch with my savage desert tactical. Surprisingly the hornady 147 eld match was all over the place for some reason. Actual velocity out of a 24" barrel was 2594 fps im guessing this can vary quite a bit from lot to lot.
Thank you for your testing
These were hand loaded, I have noticed with factory ammunition velocities can very from lot to lot. I still use the 143 ELD-X for whitetail deer and antelope, I switched to the 142 ABLR for elk. I have one rifle that likes hot loads and I was getting over fragmentation and under penetration with the ELD-X and that problem went away using the ABLR. Both are good bullets you just can't push the ELD-X to fast. I was driving them a little over 2900 fps and now use them in a different rifle keeping them at or below 2600 fps and they do much better.
At long range for deer that may work well I guess everything being dependent.
@@simplemindedfella if you don’t mind me asking, how do you push the creed that fast? 28-2900? Reloader 26? I have a 22 inch barrel and I’m interested in trying to push some velocity.
@@Ringtail273 I have gotten my best velocities using RL16
Work up slowly. I have one CM that can handle a lot more then my others. 2700-2800 fps not hard to obtain 2900 + fps is cooking for a CM.
Have you had good luck w terminal performance on the albr? I have some 7 rem mag at 175gr and see mixed reviews and a little concerned. Elk and deer is it's purpose.
I use the 142gr in my 6.5 Creedmoor and the 210gr in my 300 win mag and have had great success. I did harvest a cow elk one year at maybe 70 yards with the 6.5 Creedmoor and the bullet didn't hold together and penetrate as well as I would have liked, still went down fast. I would think the 175gr ABLR pill in a rem mag would be really good all-around, little much for antelope but not really underkill for elk.
I am a die hard accubond LR user for my 6.5 and have taken deer out to 550 yards with it. Have only had a few run beyond 50 yards after being hit. I run a Christensen Ridgeline with a nightforce and it's an absolutely deadly accurate rifle. On the other hand, I use my grandfathers Winchester 94 in 32 special with open sights for anything up to 75 yards and I actually feel better about taking a deer with it than I do my high dollar setup.
My primary 6.5 Creedmoor is an older Browning X-Bolt Western Hunter, I use the 142gr Accubond long range bullets and have harvest whitetail to just over 600 yards. My buddies son used it and took a cow elk at 400 no issues (I haven't shot any elk over 200 with it) The ABLR is one of my go too bullets in a few different calibers.
Great vid
I did catch how far away you were from the jell when you shot?
Thanks
wonder if wrapping blocks in burlap or something would keep those existing bullets from disappearing. Caught many bullets in offside hide.
I have started using blankets in trash bags and that is working fairly well.
Good test there bud
Thanks. Glad you liked it
Good stuff man! Subbed
Like the video, but, if you're not going to be shooting game at 1600 yards, why test at those ranges? Why not test at an attainable hunting range, like 1000 yards or less? That would be much more interesting to me. Thanks for the video.
I didn't work up a reduced load and that's just what the math comes out to with my first attempt, I now use a different powder for my reduced load to get a little higher velocities. One of my intents was to see if the factory ratings are accurate. Come to find out dependent on calibur they are not...
The average hunter probably shouldn't shoot past 300 yards and sport shooters that like to kill should hunt and not just rely on their well practiced shooting skills...
ABLR is a bonded bullet ELDX is not,I have taken deer and bear out to 400 yards and as close as 120 yards, that being said the ELDX fragments and separates where the ABLR doesn’t , tested on game and not on gelatin
10% ballistics gelatin is the standard set by the hunting bullet industry as a test medium for use in testing a bullets terminal performance campaired to the average huntable medium to big game animals.
I to have used both in the field and have all but moved away from the ELD-X because of over fragmentation and under penetration mostly with shots within 100 yards. They are great for whitetail deer, antelope and other medium sized game. The ABLR is one of my primary go to bullets as it is an excellent bullet for medium and large game.
Would you do one of these videos for the 6.5 140 grain federal fusion?
That is one I am planning on doing over the winter. My next few videos are going to be on factory ammo. The main reason I don't put out more videos more often is this is an expensive hobby and I have concluded the testing for the bullet I personally wanted to test.
What does the lrab do on a deer at different distances and is there a blood trail?
what kind of velocities and groups are you getting with the 142 ABLR. What powder are you using? I just got a 6.5 creedmore and plan on using the 142 ABLR but I can't find much info on it..
IMR 4451 and reloader 16
5 rounds .252 inches @ 100 yards with my last testing moving the 142 gr ABLR @ 2816 average using RL16 and CCI 200 primers ( I won't give charge weights you need to look to alliant for that and work your own load up for your gun)
I have had these shooting sub MOA at over 2900 fps but decided to slow them down a little bit as I didn't like what they did to game at closer ranges. @ 2816 they still have more then enough velocity and energy out to 500 yards and most of my shots are well within 300 yards. Personally I don't think it wise to be shooting game past 500 yd with any short action non magnum or hunting in general for that matter. It's not really hunting anymore when you're getting that far out.
I've heard good things with the H4350 and recently I have seen that available in my area I've never used it mostly because I like to buy my powder in lots severall pounds at a time so that I can keep consistency and I haven't seen more than a pound or 2 on the shelf at any one time.
Both the powers I'm using are supposed to be very insensitive to temperature changes and I would say they are the reloader 16 seems to be a little more insensitive and gives me a little better accuracy and velocity.
@@simplemindedfella Thank so much for the response. Keep up the good videos
which is more accurate?
Every rifle is different. The ELD-X tends to be easier to find an accurate load with, I haven't had issues with my Creedmoor's getting the ABLR'S to shoot just as accurate. I really like the better stopping power of the ABLR over the ELD-X (at least that has been my experience in the field with medium to large game such as mule deer and elk). If Hornaday would bond the ELD-X I would probably use it instead of the ABLR.
Back calculating your data, what you are stating would put your muzzle velocity of around 3650 fps from a 6.5 Creedmoor.. With a 142 ABLR or a 143 ELDX your pressure would be astronomical. I hope your being safe. The vid is great but I think the data is a little miss leading with the velocity you’re stating. Just don't want anyone trying to think they can do this cause it would probably cause a case rupture.
I don't shoot the same loads anymore and do not remember what velocities I was getting or what ballistic app I used at that time.
If I go to Nikon's spoton app and select 6.5 Creedmoor and Hornady's precision hunter leaving the altitude at sea level I am about right on with what I state in the video for simulated distance. Also on my Strelok app I still have my info for my current load using the 142 gr ABLR, it shows the shot being a little further than what I stated in the video. Not sure what else I can tell you.
The 143 ELDX shoot same hole at 150 yards for me. Haven't tried the ABLR, and can't find any. Which bullet do you prefer - I'm wondering if I should load some ABLR. About 400 yards is my sporting limit (I can consistently keep a 6" or less group).
I stopped using the 143 grain ELD-X because I was getting overfragmentation and underpenetration, when I switched to the ABLR that issue went away. (Really wish Hornady would bond the ELD-X)
I still will use the ELD-X on antelope as they are a very accurate bullet out of all my CM's. Just won't move them over 2600 fps so I don't have to worry about them coming apart quite so bad.
The hunter gets the bragging rights, not the shooter. Anyone can pull a trigger at 400 yards. Few can close that distance to under 50 yards. Shooting game at the ranges you suggest in your tests with this cartridge isn't just unethical, it's totally disgusting. Thanks for the vid.
50 yards is unethical. Using a gun to hunt is unethical because of the advantages you have over an animal. You should only be allowed to stalk within sprinting distance of your game. In the case of deer and elk, they're very fast, which means you should be close enough to touch them before you can use a gun. I'm making these rules because I'm terrible at shooting
@@scottgreen6538 There was that one time I got really close to a buck only to find out he wasn't any bigger than a billy goat, not worth the price of a bullet. And not wanting the embarrassment of bringing him back to camp, I ended up beaning him on the side of the head with a pinecone. He was so shocked he just stood there as I laughed and walked away. Sounds crazy I know, but does that count?
The taking of game for food AND sport is the definition of hunting. Not being capable of accomplishing that technique, or not personally wanting to do it, doesn't mean you get to trash the brothers that do it. We have enough antihunters out there without having people that should be out allies turn on us for hounds, stands, thermals, long range gear, or different sets and style.
@@siegehammer63 Learn to actually HUNT! It's actually more rewarding than the kill.
@@doghousedon1 that sounds like copium. I hunt with a 3030 at close distances when it is warranted, and I dump deer and elk at 600 when it's the method of choice. I'm not out here to pretend I'm Davy or Daniel, I'm here to slap salt and pepper backstrap on the grill.
How do you figure its producing the energy at those low velocities? Also, if it isnt starting to expand until 6 inches in, how is this gonna work on game? On a neck shot, 6 inches can put you out the other side. On a chest shot, you are halfway through a deer/antelope before it even starts to open.
Simply take your velocities punch them into a ballistics calculator and look at the chart and there's the energies.
You are correct it does open a little on the late side you would only take out one and a quarter to one and a half of an antelopes lungs looking at where these bullets dumped the bulk of there energy. Having a bullet penetrate all the way through an animal while dumping the better majority of its energy within the chest cavity has never caused any issues for me.
I definitely do not recommend either of these bullets for larger game like elk as they do over fragment and under penetrate at higher velocities and if you keep well within an ethical fair game chase distance of 400 yards or less you won't have issues unless muzzle velocities are to high.
You said people should be better hunters not better shooters. I say everyone should become better shooters.
I would have to watch the video for context. Yes, absolutely people should become better hunters and not rely on no chase spot and kill tactics. Shooting better in regards to the hunt and becoming a better hunter is a given. Muzzle control is number one of corse followed closely with shot placement with the correct bullet.
Have you found any cheaper blems in the 142 ablr?
Longrangestore.com Is the cheapest place I have found them I do buy them periodically from shooterproshop.com If you don't see them available on the long range store's website then contact them sometimes they don't have them listed on their website.
I have only ever used blends when it comes to the 142 gr ABLR and have never had an issue with them.
Results are great. I disagree w you. I don’t care what your personal range is….. everyone should be becoming a better shot.
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Of course, everyone should become a better shot. Now, as far as not hunting and spot and killing of game because Americans impatiular seem to be drifting away from the sporting aspect of hunting than yes we may have a disagreement. I do it, and as long as the shooter has the skills to place a humane kill shot, I don't have an issue with it. Just don't call it hunting when no real hunt is involved.
Barbourcreek uses 20%, you should watch his video on it.
I have. The industry uses 10% for a reason. Barbourcreek can use what they want for whatever reasons they want to they are long range shooters not bullet manufacturers. I going to stick with the industry experts standard.
I shot the 142 gr A.B.L.R out of my 6.5cm love them on deer
I like the eld-x bullets for deer and antelope but not so much for elk. I like the ABLR for all of them.
Interesting information. Thanks for sharing. I'm intrigued by your starting load for the 143 gr. ELD-X. I'm looking at the current version of the Hornady reloading manual and their lowest starting muzzle velocity is 2400 fps and a mid-range load gives 2,650. Those numbers should give more accurate results.
G'day from south Australia mate.
Great vid with great info. When reloading the ablr what type of seating stem and or dies are you using. I have standard lee die now and have no probs with ttsx 130gr, 150gr and nosler accubond 165gr for 308win. Will these do the job or will I need different ones to seat the accubond lr projectile. Cheers.
You should be alright I use the standard Hornady dies with no issues for me 6.5 and RCBS for my other calibers.
Did you measure weight retention between these 2 bullets?
I did not recover the ELD-X. The retained weight on the ABLR was 139.8
After having tested these bullets I can not recommend the ELD-X as it comes apart to much and lacks penetration at higher velocities. ABLR has a lot broader performance in hight to low rang velocities.
@@simplemindedfella thank you. I agree. A decent deer bullet but nothing more. The ABLR is far more capable.
Mabe if you were shooting a 26 nosler not a creedmoor
My trophy wall tells me everything I (or anyone really) all that needs to be known about the 6.5 Creedmoor and its effectiveness.
Hit a deer at under 100 yards anything over 2400 fps will rip a grapefruit sized hole through it .
The nossler needs range when using the LR to drop velocity and function correctly.
I shot a deer at 60 yards using the 142 / 6.5 and it had no heart .
at all .
Nosler says that the high end velocity is unlimited. I strongly disagree with them. I have slowed my muzzle velocities down to 2700 fps using the 142 gr ABLR and no longer have the issues with under penatration that I was having. I had to slow the ELD-X down to 2600 fps.
Both these bullets are terrible options for anything that has muzzle velocities above the 2700 fps mark.
The only lead core bullets in 0.264 that I have tested that I believe may truly have an unlimited high end is the Federal Treminal Ascent bullets.
ABLR's More consistent
Hands down ABLR'S are a superior product.
Your reduced load tests are a invalid test due to the reduction in the Bullets RPM’s.
The RPM’s according to Hornady and others , don’t slow down at the same rate as your velocity does, therefore making your test invalid. The only way to truly see what a bullet is going to do at 1000 yds, through an 8 twist barrel doing 2800 FPS at the muzzle, is to shoot your gel block at 1000 yds. Good luck and happy shooting!!!!
Although I agree the revolutions per minute will not be exact it is so minimal that these are the exact same testing measures that the bullet manufacturers do when rating their bullets velocity effectiveness. You would have to say then that the whole industry is wrong and misleading us all. I don't personally believe that to be the case. It is such a minimal effect on the performance and the actual permanent wound channel that's why the industry does their test like this and I've also seen the results of bullets shot into oversized gel blocks at 800 and 1000 yards and the differences in permanent wound cavities and penetration are virtually unmeasurable.
I’m not the expert. And yes, most of the manufacturers don’t have the facilities or time to do the proper testing. I’m not sure most of them have a crew of talented shooters on hand to continually shoot out to the ranges their Bullets are quoted at to perform like they say. I’ve called most of the manufactures of these bullets, and until Doppler radar came along, yes they all over inflated their BC’s or they wouldn’t sell.
(That’s a quote from they). Again I’m not the expert. I was told that the RPM’s has a direct effect on how the jacket performs. So, again, the only way to know how a bullet will perform at ANY GIVEN distance, is to shoot it at that distance.
@@devinhawley2898 there is definitely some truth to what you're saying and there is no possible way to get it exact as even ballistics gel itself cannot be made perfect because you have the resistance of the hide that is different than the resistance of bone that is different than the resistance muscle tissue that is different then the resistance of lung matter that is different than the resistance of heart tissue so they came up with a 10% standard to give as a accurate of results as possible yet impossible to give 100% accurate results. The same is applied to the rpm's the difference is so minimal it's nearly unmeasurable the gel I've seen shot at eight hundred and a thousand yards and the measurements of the permanent wound cavities are so identical you almost can't tell the difference. As you said you're not the expert I'm not either let's leave this up to the experts and I will continue to do my test the way I was instructed to do when I reached out to The Experts.
Simple Minded Fella, Fair enough, love watching your videos, keep up the good work!!!!! Happy shooting!!!!
Close enough! Great information! Instead of criticizing, YOU should shoot a gel block at 1000 yards and post it. No test is perfect but this test is close enough to evaluate expansion at distance. I enjoyed the video and appreciate the information.
100 💯👍
Tumbling
Where there is multi-directional, tearing is where the bullet opened up when you only have the 2 directional tearing you know that is where the bullet tumbled. That's how you can tell the difference in gelatin whether a bullet actually started open or just tumbled if bullets are not recovered.
Painful to listen to... do your homework before you record.
Thank you for watching
lmao, youre that kind of guy huh.... youre likely painful to be around you ol boomer.
Anybody who is honest about these critters knows they browse pretty quick. The time of flight beyond 500 yards allows an animal way too much time to move after the shot leaves the barrel before impact. I agree with you. A few decades back bow hunting exploded in popularity and the trend was to get closer, now it is to get absurdly far away. May as well be a video game at that point.
Well said
Only difference is, if you want to take these longer shots you need to put the time, effort and money into doing it right. Someone mentioned 200 yards as average. A few years ago my son's friend's dad and I were talking. He had hunted for years. I mentioned shooting past 600 yards and to 1000 at targets. He said, " If I could bust a water jug at 400 yards I would be tickled". I gave a few suggestions on factory rifles, ammo and scope to start. A few months later my health was good, (full of shrapnel and organs lost). I had him practicing dry firing for a couple weeks. After that I helped him load info in a ballistic app. and practice using it for a week. We set the rifle at 100. Ran his ammo over my chronograph. Loaded everything and off to where he shoots. A farm. When he was hitting solid at 600 he wanted 800 and so on until 1000. We set jugs of water at 1000. He burst 4 out of 4. This after practicing 4 to 6 days a week rain, wind etc. That next year we practiced the same. Teaching him to hand load. He set a target at 700 on his hunting spot and practiced very often until hits were within a couple inches within a 2 inch dot. That season he took 2 deer at that exact 700 yard target. He has since sold that rifle, 300 Win. Mag. He has built 2 rifles now. 1 for Long-range practice and a lite one for hunting. Same caliber 300 Win Mag Lapua brass, N570, Berger 215 Hybrid lit with Federal match primers. I'm sure I left out some things here but you get the idea. He now hits at 1500 yards on target's. If you know your rifles capabilities, ammo capabilities and more importantly your capabilities you can shoot at extended ranges with the time put in behind the trigger. Weather will be a big factor in the shots you take and don't take even within your capabilities. After putting in the time start with varmints. I did this with him and left this out. A shooting partner will be of help.
I shoot a 6.5 Creedmoor with his 300 Win Mag. My handloads run over 2800 fps with a 140 gr. Also shoot a 308 Win to 1200 at target's. I have taken Whitetail at 425 with a 243 and good 100 gr bullet. Two steps and DRT. Practice, shot placement and open field made that possible. Again knowing limitations is key.
One simply doesn't buy/build a custom rifle and have the ability take game at longer distances without practice. Also too how many of the clowns in the comments have spent time hunting on the open prairie? Hunting antelope in a flat open chick pea field? As traditional bowhunter I'll be the first to say that getting close is a big challenge. But I also really enjoy sitting up on a bluff with my 6.5 PRC. It's a different challenge. Temps are colder and the wind chill can be brutal. Add hunting pressure and the pursuit for a mature buck. Then all the range time before hand and all the concepts you need to know before pulling the trigger. I used to suck with a rifle. So I got into long range shooting. I haven't missed a shot inside 300 yards since. At the end of the day an animal shot at 10 yards with a longbow on the ground tastes no different than one shot at 725 with a well placed bullet above the heart.
@@ajdube9967
I also found bow hunting one of my favorite ways to take whitetail. I can no longer do to health issues. Why l try to stay with low recoil cartridges.
A lot of folks who are fine with pistol caliber hunting need to know that a good rifle and cartridge have the same velocity and energy of a pistol at the muzzle, at some very extended ranges. With the help of Simple Minded Fella hunters know the bullet to use at those extended ranges. With all that said, extended range/long range hunting is different for each individual. Because not everyone is comfortable making that shot. Whether it be from lack of skill, cartridge, rifle, etc. Just because you can't do something or don't agree with it, doesn't mean other's can't. This is evident in many thing's in life. Be respectful of all life, follow the law's of your area and enjoy the freedoms we have. The way the left has demonized guns, shooting and hunting, we need to stick together more than ever.
In our hearts we all know right from wrong as adult's. If something feels wrong, don't do it.