Had to fight with a 120Hz humm on an 8-track player too for a while and didn't find a way to quiet it down. Everything had a nice star ground, leading to just one point, apart from the head position/program solenoid, which I fixed. So I finally bit the bullet and put in a 15V voltage regulator for the amplification PCB. There was no voltage regulation inside before, being from the late 60's, early 70's; it was straight from the transformer, through a B+ rectifier, filtered by a 2200µF cap to the board. It never knew fancy things like voltage regulators before, heh. Linear voltage regulators have a ripple rejection too; that finally quieted things down.... What a relief after endlessly poking at that thing... Now I'm gonna get more 8-track cartridges :D
Joe, I have to say I have really enjoyed this series. Each shows how if you work step by step, module by module, you can repair these great tables. Solid state, 80s - early 2k pins have great diagnosis built into them, and the parts are available to replace. Again keep.up the great work!
Interesting. My High Speed had that noise and all screws present and tightened. The only way I could stop the noise was to isolate the little audio board using nylon washers and screws. *shrug* Edit: I just checked. I was actually missing screws!! I replaced and tightened all of them and the noise is COMPLETELY gone. You’re the MAN.
@@LyonsArcade they don't call me Izzynutz "is he nuts"? for nothing 😁😉🙃 Hey while I got you guys here, how rare is a wheel of fortune pinball machine with a picture of Vanna and Pat on the back glass?
So enjoying this! I always learn something that helps me with my projects. I started collecting in 2019 and been a fan of yours since. Especially your how to play videos. Thank you again for the lessons and entertainment!
Always great to watch your videos! I have the same crimper as you :) Regarding the hum, is that similar to car stereos that lack a decent ground? I've fitted supressors before to calm the noise, would something similar work in a Pinball machine?
I acquired a Space Shuttle pinball. It's a System 9. Difference from your System 11 machine is on the 9 the sound system is included on the large MPU board. I had same loud hmmm. Checked internet and found solution to ground shield of the speaker wiring where it left the MPU connector. Hmmm reduced to practically nothing. My Fire game sibling of your F14 must have all the requisite screws because I did not have the hmmm when I acquired it.
Ha Ha, it's thanking you again. Great crimper's , wish I had thoughts back in my HVAC\R days. They kind of look like a T-REX. You shere did a great job fixing that main board, excellent work.
I wonder if that added meter was something the operator would do to all their machines after delivery, so their route people had a standard way to check for every game at the door, as book-keeping features varied in software and could get messed up with power/battery loss?
My one connector was replaced with a Molex connector and new pins and the person used a small zip strip around the housing body in the place of the plastic indexing key. Dunno if this was an operator hack back in the day? .
I struggled with the sound cpu light noise on my whirlwind and it got worse since I added a ledocd board, but removing the 2 right hand side screws on the sound board resolved🧐
Hi, Any idea how to fix speaker buzzing on a Bally Skateball. In attract mode when the highscore is showing on the display the speaker gets interference.
It's usually the capacitors on the sound board, but some people are more sensitive to it than others. Most games will have a little bit of buzz with the lights and some people can't stand it... so it just depends on if you're talking about that (which can't really be eliminated) or if you're talking about it making a pretty loud noise, which might be the caps.
I have the same whirring in my Grand Lizard, and have plans to fix it, but as everything else its been pushed on the backburner due to other things LOL Also, while im at it, if the solenoid coil fuse pops after like 2-3 smacks on the flipper buttons during game, im guessing its a transistor gone bad? it started the other day so ive not had that much time to stick my fingers into things.
First, make sure it's a slow-blow fuse. Solenoids use a lot of power at first. Second, make sure the end of stroke switch is properly actuated by the flipper mechanism. If not, then it will be pulling at full strength even when it won't move any more, and that causes excess power draw and heats up the solenoid coil.
@@ovalteen4404 it worked just fine until around.... wednesday, when the fuse just popped midgame, now it just pops all the time even with new fuse. As i said have not had time to look yet.
if you would use a long ground jumpers jumper to test grounds or use a AC VM to test from ground to ground for AC ripple. You should be able to find bad grounds. If you want to get rid of the rest of the hum
No. They are used to stop the processor in the game having to flip the solenoid when certain switches are pressed. A 'special' solenoid in this case means one with a directly wired switch which can also activate it. This was important when processors were very slow and couldn't keep up with all the things.
@@queazocotal normal solenoids have switches on the playfield. The special solenoids also have switched connected directly to the solenoids. I don't understand the differences between the normal solenoids that have switches connected directly to the normal solenoids compared to switches connected directly to the special solenoids? They seem to me there is no differences at all
"Some of the new power supplies add a hum" Yeah. I've been told switchers are usually not very well filtered and linear supplies have much faster transient response. I'm glad I didn't waste cash on a switcher for that gorf machine
Coils, in general, are always "live" when a WMS game is in test mode. You can kill their action by unplugging the coil power, or pulling the fuses, to drop the coil power supply out (+50 and +25 for this vintage Sys11). The drivers will still fire (connecting ground) but with no supply for the coil it won't do anything. Functionally the same thing as the interlock switches on newer games. Very handy if you're tired of slingshots, jet bumpers, and kickers from whacking your fingers.
I personally replace the connectors with the same as what was on the game. These newer games use Amp mta connectors. The tool costs s few more bucks than the one you use but it keeps the cables as it was from the factory. Just my preference.
@@LyonsArcade Math is hard...LOL...actually being in automotive and doing my fair share of tinkering its common for me to hear .156, .1., .062 etc., terminal sizes...they are moving to metric though. Wire is finally almost all metric now, as are terminals. Going to drive a ton of people mad that still work on their own cars. "Can't find that 10mm?"...yea, wait until they need new crimper jaws...LOL
@@WreckDiver99 yes, it's always the 10mm socket that has gone walkies. Alternatively, let me grab the 19mm socket.. Let me see, 16,mm. .17mm, 18mm. @#$% no 19mm.
I know. One day I will get to play it and see my old tricks will work.. Using physics against itself. But..You fixing F14 TOMCAT.. Shaping up to being an awesome machine.. But that playfield. Oh boy.. Just a suggestion not trying to sway you one way or another.. With the mylar situation.. And making it cheaper for the customer. But LED'S would help a lot. Just a suggestion.
I mean I get your point on EM machines.. But solid state machines... Especially for f-14 TOMCAT.. LEDs are your friend.. make the reds and blues color lights pop off.. He can't afford a new play field or overly. LED'S Is the way to to go.. TNT AMUSEMENT VIDEOS can show you a better option.. with LED'S. can't fix the mylar ok cheat with LED'S..
@@LyonsArcade Now, something that _is_ a metric conversion... Namco (and a lot of other Japanese arcade game makers) used 15mm plywood. I know a guy who repairs video game cabinets; he was convinced that they used 9/16" plywood, which is a really uncommon thickness unless you have it custom-made. I can see why he made that assumption, because the difference is negligible. 9/16" is 0.5625 inches, and 15mm is 0.5905 inches. To complicate things, Namco outsourced some cabinet production to a company on the west coast (I think it was in either California or Washington, but I could be wrong). The cabinets made by this company used 1/2" plywood.
@@SpearM3064 there's a reason behind this ... if you shipped a complete game from Japan, you got charged import duties. If you made a cabinet domestically, and stuffed the guts into it, it counted as "Made in the USA"
@@cheapasstech I can't say that my initial guess about the board design is correct, but you really want to keep analog and digital grounds separate on a PCB, except at a single point. Caps might work, but without through-holes or SMD pads, the installation would get messy and excess leads will add inductance. If there were an easy fix with say a limited amount of caps, I would expect to see it online. The most common suggestion to minimize the sound is what Ron did - make sure all the PCB grounding screws are installed and tight. This is also a case where one could justify adding lots of caps and other tinkering if it were their hobby.
Do any of these machines have an FCC interference compliance lable? Man did I use tho have fun bleeding over stuff with my CB radio. My Bro in law thought god was talking to him out if his click radio when he lived with us 🤣😂
Another great pinnie back from the dead. Fantastic work Ron. .... can’t wait to see you get stuck into the playfield.
Thank you Mark we appreciate you watching like always!
This machine was neglected for years what a challenge you had. You did good though. thanks for taking the time to show these videos it helps.
No problem Michael it was fun working on it and showing it off to you, thank you for watching!
Thanks Buddy! Nutin' like transferring video files watching the sunset at 11:30 PM and gettin edgimacated!
👍👍👍
Thanks Gnomie!
It's spelt edumacated!
@@gorillaau patato tomato!
I want your spell checker lol
@@TheGnomestead Potator? Tomator?
Glad to see you are using genuine Molex connectors!
Had to fight with a 120Hz humm on an 8-track player too for a while and didn't find a way to quiet it down. Everything had a nice star ground, leading to just one point, apart from the head position/program solenoid, which I fixed. So I finally bit the bullet and put in a 15V voltage regulator for the amplification PCB. There was no voltage regulation inside before, being from the late 60's, early 70's; it was straight from the transformer, through a B+ rectifier, filtered by a 2200µF cap to the board. It never knew fancy things like voltage regulators before, heh. Linear voltage regulators have a ripple rejection too; that finally quieted things down.... What a relief after endlessly poking at that thing... Now I'm gonna get more 8-track cartridges :D
8tracks Are awesome, glad you fixed the humm!
Oh mains hum getting into the audio can be fun to track down. It's 50Hz or 100Hz over here.
Buzzing just enough to remind you its from the 80s
Ooooh yeah. Only way to have it👍
Glad somebody understood!
Even my Misses watched this video tonight. So went and played Fish Tales and Party Zone. Great work Ron.
Thanks Simon tell her we said hey!
Fish Tales is a fun table. Especially when you manage to consective loops for a bigger score.
Joe, I have to say I have really enjoyed this series. Each shows how if you work step by step, module by module, you can repair these great tables. Solid state, 80s - early 2k pins have great diagnosis built into them, and the parts are available to replace. Again keep.up the great work!
Thanks Tex-Hogger, we're gonna keep at it :) We appreciate you watching!
Interesting. My High Speed had that noise and all screws present and tightened. The only way I could stop the noise was to isolate the little audio board using nylon washers and screws. *shrug*
Edit: I just checked. I was actually missing screws!! I replaced and tightened all of them and the noise is COMPLETELY gone. You’re the MAN.
There you go man! Keep in mind there’s audio on the main board too and also the power supply is involved!
I love that alligator wiring 😬👍
I have a huge collection of them I've removed off machines over the years :)
You're absolutely right 95% of the time I got some screws missing...😵😁😁
Haha I’ve always been crazy but it’s kept me from going insane -Waylon
@@LyonsArcade they don't call me Izzynutz "is he nuts"? for nothing 😁😉🙃
Hey while I got you guys here, how rare is a wheel of fortune pinball machine with a picture of Vanna and Pat on the back glass?
That soundtrack NEVER gets old
Great series. A whole lotta learning going on.
Thank you Carl!
Tearing down my stellar wars as I am watching. Thank you !!!
Another fun game!
This is great, just so happens to be restoring a F14 Tomcat 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾🍹
Very cool man!
Finally finished the restoration now tackling that Humm
Been enjoying as per usual but now we get to the real different part - sorting that playfield, can’t wait to see how you tackle mylar on mylar!
Haha guess we’ll find out Monday 😀
So enjoying this! I always learn something that helps me with my projects. I started collecting in 2019 and been a fan of yours since. Especially your how to play videos. Thank you again for the lessons and entertainment!
Thank you afattori316!
Good morning Joe. Looking good .
Thanks WackyWorldOfWindios!
@@LyonsArcade Ron 😁
Nice repair on that sound problem, i had same problem on my ex Williams Fire! same sys 11 board... 👍😎
Thank you Danijel, we appreciate you watching as always man!
@@LyonsArcade Thanks, im a fan😁👍Love pinball repair videos that you make😎👍
As always, Awesome job Ron. Very cool game too.
Thanks Paul, we appreciate you watching!
Great video thanks for sharing. looks like you figured it out again. Have a great weekend.
Thanks Mac!
Thanks Ron for another great upload. I enjoy these very much 👍
Thanks AK-Gyrator!
Always great to watch your videos! I have the same crimper as you :)
Regarding the hum, is that similar to car stereos that lack a decent ground? I've fitted supressors before to calm the noise, would something similar work in a Pinball machine?
Probably, it’s basically the same concept
I acquired a Space Shuttle pinball. It's a System 9. Difference from your System 11 machine is on the 9 the sound system is included on the large MPU board. I had same loud hmmm. Checked internet and found solution to ground shield of the speaker wiring where it left the MPU connector. Hmmm reduced to practically nothing. My Fire game sibling of your F14 must have all the requisite screws because I did not have the hmmm when I acquired it.
With a little bit of fantasy, sound 13, sounds like the "Bonanza" intro. :)
I use trifurcon on machines with shakers motors, just for peace of mind. Love your channel btw.
Ha Ha, it's thanking you again. Great crimper's , wish I had thoughts back in my HVAC\R days. They kind of look like a T-REX. You shere did a great job fixing that main board, excellent work.
Thanks WackyWorld we appreciate it!
I've seen worse pinballs ... maybe once or twice ... and that's across 25 years of fixing these games.
Those are amazingly grody.
Nice work on the subscriber count. Getting close to 30k!
Nice job so far Ron :)
Thank you Megaspambox!
Thanks for this great video!
What "yagov" tried to "fix" the Yagov kicker? Great work Ron! Thank you!
Oh well we got it!
"Floating Ground" = Hummmmm I'm loving these. By the way. did Joe tell you I called the other day?
He did man, we're gonna let you know when we're about done with it so you can come down and play it on camera :)
Nice machine 😃
@2:15 you are very welcome :)
Judging by your gun-shyness to those kickers tells me it hurts like hell when they bite 😂
Haha wait until the final video we actually talk about just that thing lol
I wonder if that added meter was something the operator would do to all their machines after delivery, so their route people had a standard way to check for every game at the door, as book-keeping features varied in software and could get messed up with power/battery loss?
My one connector was replaced with a Molex connector and new pins and the person used a small zip strip around the housing body in the place of the plastic indexing key. Dunno if this was an operator hack back in the day?
.
I’ve seen that before hey if it keeps you from plugging it in backwards I guess it’s good!
Which came first, this or Defender cos they make the same noise ! speaking of noise it sounds great!....cheers
Defender was the grand daddy of them all, all the sounds go back to Defender :)
@@LyonsArcade Ta !
excellent mate :) it very nealry back to full stengh. the playfield is going to be a ........
It's getting there, little by little!
I struggled with the sound cpu light noise on my whirlwind and it got worse since I added a ledocd board, but removing the 2 right hand side screws on the sound board resolved🧐
I've been dealing with loud humming for 7 years. I unplugged the top speakers to deal with it. Today I replaced 2 screws and it was gone.
There you go man!
#4:25 Yes! we saw it ping away :D
I oughta be able to find it when we clean the playfield finally :)
Hi, Any idea how to fix speaker buzzing on a Bally Skateball. In attract mode when the highscore is showing on the display the speaker gets interference.
It's usually the capacitors on the sound board, but some people are more sensitive to it than others. Most games will have a little bit of buzz with the lights and some people can't stand it... so it just depends on if you're talking about that (which can't really be eliminated) or if you're talking about it making a pretty loud noise, which might be the caps.
Thanks for the sound info. What if there’s a big speaker pop when you turn the machine on or off? Is that a cap or something?
That’s actually pretty common no way to really fix it, it’s designed that way…
Those sounds sound like an Emerson lake and Palmer album.
Like the song lucky man.
I have the same whirring in my Grand Lizard, and have plans to fix it, but as everything else its been pushed on the backburner due to other things LOL
Also, while im at it, if the solenoid coil fuse pops after like 2-3 smacks on the flipper buttons during game, im guessing its a transistor gone bad? it started the other day so ive not had that much time to stick my fingers into things.
First, make sure it's a slow-blow fuse. Solenoids use a lot of power at first. Second, make sure the end of stroke switch is properly actuated by the flipper mechanism. If not, then it will be pulling at full strength even when it won't move any more, and that causes excess power draw and heats up the solenoid coil.
@@ovalteen4404 it worked just fine until around.... wednesday, when the fuse just popped midgame, now it just pops all the time even with new fuse. As i said have not had time to look yet.
if you would use a long ground jumpers jumper to test grounds or use a AC VM to test from ground to ground for AC ripple. You should be able to find bad grounds. If you want to get rid of the rest of the hum
I think that would work... thank you for watching Gerald!
You can release the crimping tool on the “tap” inside the handels
Thanks I didn’t know that!
@@LyonsArcade No problem - Viewer all the from Denmark :-D
Don't forget Digikey for electronic parts ... They have "everything", too
I’ve never really used them much...
@@LyonsArcade they're basically Newark, but in Minnesota
Defeating Yagov, one video at a time
We're gonna get his ass good!
did the CVSD chips get affected by the leaking batteries.
No most of the audio thankfully wasn’t harmed by the corrosion...
Does all pinball games have those special solenoids? I'm not sure what they are used for in the playfield to use special solenoids
No. They are used to stop the processor in the game having to flip the solenoid when certain switches are pressed. A 'special' solenoid in this case means one with a directly wired switch which can also activate it. This was important when processors were very slow and couldn't keep up with all the things.
@@queazocotal normal solenoids have switches on the playfield. The special solenoids also have switched connected directly to the solenoids. I don't understand the differences between the normal solenoids that have switches connected directly to the normal solenoids compared to switches connected directly to the special solenoids? They seem to me there is no differences at all
Fix starts at 32:40
"Some of the new power supplies add a hum" Yeah. I've been told switchers are usually not very well filtered and linear supplies have much faster transient response. I'm glad I didn't waste cash on a switcher for that gorf machine
Those mounting screws are universal, right? Exact size? mm?
They are #8-32 screws.
Hum is often a bad ground. I'm not shocked (because I'm ungrounded)
Gotta watch those grounds :)
What about a twin-'T' Notch filter between the CVSD chips and the audio amplifiers.
That sounds like a lot more work than putting the screws back in the board :)
@@LyonsArcade You want the mains hum out of the system don't you.
@@DAVIDGREGORYKERR it adds character to it
Isn't there a way to kill the power to the special solenoids during testing? Something like pulling the fuse.
Not to just the special solenoids
@@LyonsArcade I wonder why the software didn't turn off the enable signal during the switch test?
Coils, in general, are always "live" when a WMS game is in test mode.
You can kill their action by unplugging the coil power, or pulling the fuses, to drop the coil power supply out (+50 and +25 for this vintage Sys11).
The drivers will still fire (connecting ground) but with no supply for the coil it won't do anything. Functionally the same thing as the interlock switches on newer games.
Very handy if you're tired of slingshots, jet bumpers, and kickers from whacking your fingers.
@3:22 "look at this crap".... it's almost like you are saying "I wouldn't do it like that".... ;o)
LOL
Right sling made me skerd when you hit it.
They're SNAPPY
Yes, for Quite A While! 😅
Notepad is awesome
We thought so too!
What is the brand and model of the crimper tool you show in this video?
Looks like a Molex 63811 series or similar
@@Ebinsugewa I found it. It's a HanLong model # HT-225D. Bought mine brand new on Amazon for $23. I can't wait to try it out.
Ron do you think repair 10 will be the last video and we will see this being played .have a great weekend ron see you on the next video
Repair 10 we're gonna fix that playfield :) I think John there are going to be TWELVE total videos on this one, can you believe all that work?
I personally replace the connectors with the same as what was on the game. These newer games use Amp mta connectors. The tool costs s few more bucks than the one you use but it keeps the cables as it was from the factory. Just my preference.
Couldn’t resist could you?
The hum reminds me of qix
I remember that. 😃👍
Yes it's very similar actually!
so next video is on monday
Playfield cleaning and rubbers probably
Yes sir, we will be up on Monday, see you then!
.062 is actually 0.0625 or 1/16". Standard Automotive size, asis the .15625 (5/32").
Are you sure? (joking)
That makes sense WreckDiver I didn't do the math :)
@@LyonsArcade Math is hard...LOL...actually being in automotive and doing my fair share of tinkering its common for me to hear .156, .1., .062 etc., terminal sizes...they are moving to metric though. Wire is finally almost all metric now, as are terminals. Going to drive a ton of people mad that still work on their own cars. "Can't find that 10mm?"...yea, wait until they need new crimper jaws...LOL
@@WreckDiver99 yes, it's always the 10mm socket that has gone walkies.
Alternatively, let me grab the 19mm socket.. Let me see, 16,mm. .17mm, 18mm. @#$% no 19mm.
@@gorillaau 13's seem to go sometimes too. My Tahoe has quite a few 13's in it. At least with the 19, I can (many times) use the 3/4" lol.
I Soo want to play F14 TOMCAT again.
It’s a fantastic game!
I know.
One day I will get to play it and see my old tricks will work..
Using physics against itself.
But..You fixing F14 TOMCAT..
Shaping up to being an awesome machine..
But that playfield. Oh boy..
Just a suggestion not trying to sway you one way or another..
With the mylar situation..
And making it cheaper for the customer.
But LED'S would help a lot.
Just a suggestion.
I mean a new playfield or a overlay it's too expensive for the customer..
But colored LEDs would help it very much..
I mean I get your point on EM machines..
But solid state machines...
Especially for f-14 TOMCAT..
LEDs are your friend.. make the reds and blues color lights pop off..
He can't afford a new play field or overly.
LED'S Is the way to to go..
TNT AMUSEMENT VIDEOS can show you a better option.. with LED'S.
can't fix the mylar ok cheat with LED'S..
You need to outthink outside the box.
0.062" is 1/16", not a metric conversion...
Thanks I didn’t know that!
Same with the .156...5/32" Standard Automotive stuff (and others).
@@LyonsArcade Now, something that _is_ a metric conversion... Namco (and a lot of other Japanese arcade game makers) used 15mm plywood. I know a guy who repairs video game cabinets; he was convinced that they used 9/16" plywood, which is a really uncommon thickness unless you have it custom-made. I can see why he made that assumption, because the difference is negligible. 9/16" is 0.5625 inches, and 15mm is 0.5905 inches. To complicate things, Namco outsourced some cabinet production to a company on the west coast (I think it was in either California or Washington, but I could be wrong). The cabinets made by this company used 1/2" plywood.
@@SpearM3064 there's a reason behind this ... if you shipped a complete game from Japan, you got charged import duties.
If you made a cabinet domestically, and stuffed the guts into it, it counted as "Made in the USA"
nework bought one my favorite business MCM Electronics that is too funny I also am left handed I did the same with my crimpers .
My guess on the hum is that they shared the same ground traces for both digital and analog circuits.
That sounds right to me :)
Would a load of filter capacitors fix this ?
@@cheapasstech unlikely. I suspect the noise is mixing on the board and that takes more than filter caps to fix.
@@neilh2669 a board from a C64 has low impedance caps all over the board to eliminate noise on voltage lines
@@cheapasstech I can't say that my initial guess about the board design is correct, but you really want to keep analog and digital grounds separate on a PCB, except at a single point. Caps might work, but without through-holes or SMD pads, the installation would get messy and excess leads will add inductance. If there were an easy fix with say a limited amount of caps, I would expect to see it online. The most common suggestion to minimize the sound is what Ron did - make sure all the PCB grounding screws are installed and tight. This is also a case where one could justify adding lots of caps and other tinkering if it were their hobby.
.0625 is 1/16 of an inch
That makes sense, thanks Chase!
Do any of these machines have an FCC interference compliance lable?
Man did I use tho have fun bleeding over stuff with my CB radio.
My Bro in law thought god was talking to him out if his click radio when he lived with us 🤣😂
They do have that label you could prob intercept them 😀
hmm...alligator clip and tape.
I guess they used what they had!
.062 is not a metric conversion it is decimal inch. .062=.0625=1/16" / .093=.09375=3/32"
38:32 Well better your pinball machine has a few screws missing then you! :)
Aunt that the truth!
17:39 what is the name of crud Am I listening to… Devil music
How could you do it to Mr Minge? 😮😯😲🤯😂🤪
We still have Mr. Minge's too, but a viewer made us these so we have to use them :)
@@LyonsArcade lol, fair enough mate 😂👍 They are cool design. 👍
How cool would it be to own one of these!!!! ua-cam.com/video/eHEeyb3-8M0/v-deo.html or these ua-cam.com/video/ZxK2x5TIv8Y/v-deo.html
what a waste of a good lead. that is totally " jerry rigging "
Perhaps it was the only bit of wire in the serviceman van. Still a pretty poor hack to leave in place.