Are Textless Cards Really a Problem? |
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Textless cards are becoming more common thanks to Secret Lair drops, is this a problem?
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I think they work best on instants and sorceries, so it only comes up once and you don’t have a textless card sitting on the battlefield, or on permanents with simple rules text. The old Wrath of God and Damnation you showed are perfect examples. Lier is I think about the most complicated you can get away with, barely, since the whole table needs to be aware of that extra “spells can’t be countered” ability. Cryptic and Omnath are both way too wordy for a textless treatment. I suspect this is why most textless cards have been non-permanents, only in the last few years have they started making lands and, more recently, creatures
actually I think they work really well for commmanders, whose abilities you know extremely well, but are obnoxious in the 99
Full agree. I still think the best text less card is lightning bolt. Becuase come on. It's lightning bolt
@@bryanleblanc5648 Not necessarily. The primary issue with textless cards isn’t you yourself knowing what they do, it’s your deck and you should know what your commander does. The issue is with clarity for other players who may not have encountered your commander before. For example, if I’m playing against a Thalia and Gitrog deck and I’ve never seen the card before, how am I supposed to remember that it has first strike and deathtouch in addition to the rest of a potentially very complicated board state. “Sneaky Reach” is very much a real thing, even with full text cards
or just have a regular version on standby ?
@@nickatworkthe downside is that you can't shove your awesome card on your opponent's face when explaining the text. Instead you'll have to carry around an extra copy of the card(copies, if you happen to use more than one of those fancy cards) which you will not be using throughout your match.
As a rule of thumb if I have textless cards in my deck I keep a text copy of the card in a different colour sleeve with my tokens in case there is any issues.
I’d say in competitive magic it’s a bit of an issue though if you’re not prepared to provide the rules to your opponent legibly.
I LOVE that solution.
In tournament play i call the judge, easy as that.
Same they give us plenty of blank cards to write on
They shouldn't be allowed whenever a timer is involved.
What about foreign language cards then?
@@adap8400 I would think it depends. If it's a local event, I would allow them because people speak the language, event though they still slow down the gameplay because people aren't used to them.
But for more serious events, I believe the timer thing still applies.
Online, I think there are options to turn off your opponents art so it's not as much an issue.
@@petertheamateur-mtgarenade2004 "if its a local event, i would allow them because people speak the language" erm no? thats why we call them foreign language cards, because they are in a language FOREIGN to the place you are playing at xD
@@ich3730 obvioulsy I meant the local language, not just any language. French isn't a foreign language where I live, but it may be foreign to you. Anyone would understand French cards at a local event near me. They wouldn't be considered foreign.
@@ich3730 OP clearly meant "not in English" when he said foreign, which is what I adressed with my answer.
Saying that textless cards are not a problem because phones exist assumes that judges are actually going to let you use your phone during match
If a judge doesn't provide the Oracle text for the card they are in the wrong. Calling Judge for a clarification on the text is perfectly fine.
You are allowed to ask for the oracle text of a card in a tournament. You might not be able to use your phone and need to call over the judge to show it off on their own phone, but you will definitely be able to see the effect of cards in play whenever you need to.
@@ergon1798 The main issue I see with this, not that it's a huge one (or that you were justifying anything), but even understanding that you can check whenever you need, it's an interruption to the course of normal play that could throw someone off, especially newer players who are already processing a lot of information to begin with.
I always carry a normal copy of each text less card in my deck. Helps avoid any confusion in tournaments for me
they specifically changed the rules to allow phones at at least regular level play
Only the most basic cards should get text less versions. Lightning bolt, grizzly bears, giant growth... other wise it's a problem
I have a Ghave Guru of Spores deck, his secret lair is prerty hard to read but I really love the arty. I think the best thing to do is if you are going to use an alternate art of a card that makes it less clear just keep a copy of the original card(or at least print a reference) so that way people can easily read a copy without needing to potentially look up rules etc
Absolutely love them, just wish they were more accessible to everyone
With MDFCs existing, it'd be cool to have the rules text on the back for reference if people don't want to use their phones. Love textless though
The cereal Secret Lairs did something like that, the back of the “box” had the rules text incorporated while the front was the art and name mainly. Worked pretty well!
Love the amount of people that bring a reference card when they play with a textless card, I think that's a great approach. Otherwise I think it can cause issues, I've definitely played multiple games with a dead phone on top of the search being a break in game flow and for permanent cards I'd personally have to read some of them repeatedly so I don't forget.
For well known cards with undisputed easy rules, it's no issue. If it's an obscure card or can do several things, I'd propose owning a readable version as a courtesy to your table.
I run a phyrexian script Nissa, and keep a normal one in it's deckbox for my own memory's sake.
Eventually we'll get cards without text or art.....
I follow the same guidelines I do for art cards.
I will always have a standard card with the rules text visible to display upon player request in the deck box.
I think for cards with short, simple effects it's 100% fine. "Destroy all creatures", "counter target spell' etc. What I don't like is when its cards like Cryptic Command that are modal, or other somewhat more complicated with triggers. That said, I've only encountered them at casual commander tables and it's not an issue as long as the person playing it knows what it does.
For iconic cards that are over played, no. For niche commander cards that are only known to that play group, yes.
If you hit me with a textless Swords to Plowshare, I know whats up. But if someone is like “check out my textless Butcher Orgg”, then I’m scooping.
Someone here on youtube made one of those decks that shouldn't be played based on this, and it uses this as its premis
The only cards that have any dicernable text on em are your basic lands, and just to hit them, where it really hurts, make it the ones with only text and no art
Certain cards just make sense textless. Thoughtsize? Counterspell? Sign in blood? Orcish bowmaster? LLanowar elves?
I think they only work when the card is simple. Lightning Bolt? Go for it, use that canvas. But a Planeswalker? That better stay in your binder...
If wizards of the coast kept their simple designs philosophy, I wouldn't be so worried. But imagine The Questing Beast with zero rules text. That's the problem for me. I still agree that even something like cryptic command may be too much rules text on a card to put none.
Things like lightning bolt, llanowar elves, and other simple cards should be reserved for textless variants.
It depends how many and which kind are in a deck. Everyone knows damnation and wrath of god, but Omnath is a little much especially because its a permanent. And if you just have one in your deck, looking it up isnt an issue, but if you have a deck with a bunch it could really get annoying. In that case id hope the person would think ahead and have a nice reference sheet printed out or something
While yes, you can look up the rules text for cards, I don’t think that removes the issue. For commander games, looking up a card isn’t an issue, but I believe in tournaments you’re not allowed to use your phone for things like that during the game, so you have to call over a judge any time you need to check rules text, which would just get super annoying if they printed any format staples like this.
As someone who took a break from the game around Mirrodin, and is just now getting back to playing at a commander table, I *hate* them. If you play with one, you better be ready to explain exactly what it does every time you play it, 'cause I haven't memorized the last several years of cards, and they're (literally) impossible to read.
The most uttered phrase at our table is "Reading the card, explains the card" I have 0 faith in my friends to remember word for word what their cards does. Misrembering if there's a "may" in a card, does this ability put a land tapped or untapped? Was this card a sorcery or an instant? IMO its bad, I don't want to google every card you play every time to check if I need to interact with it before it hits the table.
I don't really mind that much, but it depends on how complex the card is, it can get annoying checking all the time
They should stick to being limited print. We don't want too many bleeding into regular play. It's cool for commander, but not really any other format
It's weird that Arena has a new animation to prevent secret reach, while 4nath gets a textless print. The cards that exist now are alright-ish, I still don't like TmGM getting textless especially with their combat keywords, but Dauthi Voidwalker is the upper limit of what I'd consider alright.
I like classic MTG cards to be textless, but only the simple stuff. I think the darker border card style is really cool. (See an Offer you can't refuse to see what I mean.) I'm also a sucker for retro border cards.
Depends a lot on what cards are textless.
Like lightning bolt is well known, played a lot and short rules text, that is completely ok.
4c omanth is not.
But those new SL cards, I dont know even half what they do. And I am really invested into the game.
That's a great way for WotC to get more foot traffic on their website. It's also a wonderful way to alienate new players and give gatekeepers more ammo to keep new players out. I can just hear it now:
"What do you MEAN you don't know what 'Lier, Disciple of the Drowned' does??!? Friggin N00B"
Before wotc printers started snoring stuff and the card pool was somewhat manageable without a photographic memory, going textless on a few popular cards wasn't a problem. Going textless on a card that would have more than a couple sentences makes it unplayable for me in casual circles.
Textless cards are fine for simple effects, but most of the examples provided have way too much text for textless versions to be a good idea.
Mostly Unreadable? Why didn't you pay attention in Phyrexia 101? Base Language is taught there and expanded all through 102, 103, and even 104.
Textless cards are fine as long as the burden of knowing and explaining what the card falls on the person playing them.
I love my textless Nameless Inversion but there's no way I'd be playing it if I didn't cast it often enough know it by heart, and I'm never going to get mad at someone asking me what it does.
I wouldn't trust myself to play textless Omnath lol
Works best with simple cards. However, i would say that for thr most psrt if you are going to play tectless cards *you* need to bring a reference for your opponents like a print out or a copy of the card with text.
Not a problem. I either just keep another copy with the deck if it's my commander or Google it if it's in the 99
I think the problem with this particular batch is that people do not know what those cards are. I still think this is a problem for Omnath too, which despite it's infamy, has such a long textbox i have to reread it every time otherwise I'd probably mess up the order of triggers. Jaxis on the other hand? Never seen it played, and probably not going to look up what that does
I like the options, especially if the art on one is problematic.
Not a problem, my friends and I are a proxy meta now and we've made many of our own.
Considering everything... They could print the rules of the card on their back for these cases
They aren’t a problem, except when there is so much text on the card.
For example, lightning bolt a great textless card and so is wrath of God.
I find them annoying unless the player using them has something to represent what they do.
My daughter has several Phyrexian cards in her Praetor deck and has notecards with the rules written on them. This is the way.
I love my text less and alt art cards but I always carry normal copies for those players in tournaments that don't know the cards
I always have an OG copy with the textless cards
They are a problem. Commander already takes a long time to play without having to look up the text rules. In my group textless cards are a no fly zone.
Non wordy cards work I feel but in modern magic we just have too many words on cards to expect us to remember them and I don't want to have to look up the rules every time someone plays one.
As much as i don't like secret lair basic land cycles.... poker playing card lands would be pretty awesome.
It's not a problem when it's done right like everything else.
Here’s my thing on it. People cannot play an alter that covers the text, so why is it okay to not have text when it’s printed that way?
Jaxis has a mountain of forgettable and easily confused text and even has an alternative cost that isn’t mentioned on the textless card. Don’t even get me started
I think it's not a problem if textless design applies to an notable cards those didn't require to google oracle text. Textless Omnath or Lier is a real problem
In 2024 it’s even more important that cards say what they do their are more cards than ever that I’ve never once read the rules too. Those cards look nice tho. 😅
Textless cards for Ponder, Bolt, and Wraths are cool, because if you don't know what the rules text is, then it can be easily explained. Textless cards for ubiquitous staples like Cryptic Command (well, it was ubiquitous) are also fine because while not everyone would know the rules text, I think most players who would be encountering the card probably did. But textless cards for Jaxis, the Troublemaker and Thalia and the Gitrog? That's just annoying and most people would need to look up the rules text if you played against them and even then, you have to remember the rules text for as long as it's on the battlefield. It's cliche but I'll say it, reading the card should explain the card.
And also as a playing card collector I should be chomping at the bit to buy this secret lair but for some reason it's doing absolutely nothing for me.
Even if I can look up the card online, I don't want to make a sesrch for the card whenever I neee to check what it does. So I am not a big fan of them if they are a permanent gameplay wise, unless the effect is simple and easy to remember, or the owner of the card has a texted version easily available if needed
I really dislike them. Not needing a phone or computer is kinda the point of paper magic. I can at least appreciate cards in Phyrexian or whatever because of how cool and flavorful it is.
The textless Cryptic Command is very annoying, but at least it was funny. Once.
If you want to play them, i think it should be common courtesy to have a copy with the text on it for reference. Other than that, its whatever
I don't think they should be common but every now and then I don't think it's a big deal.
I’m surprise gurgle or whatever the big frog thing is, never got one of these. He’s so big and doesn’t need any text
I don’t mind as long as they stay in collector sets so we see more text for the wide spread play releases given they are more necessary for play the collecting so sub sets are cool main sets are not way I see it.
i think that it's better to only do textless cards for cards that are well known by everyone what thet do like wrath of god because those are cards that people don't really need to read to know what it does. this does make putting it on cryptic command a bad decision because most people don't know all the modes.
They honestly look like old pogs. Doesn’t remind me of magic at all
Textless cards are just bad. They're somewhat tolerable if it is a simple effect such as Wrath of God (the can't regenerate text is barely ever relevant) but when I saw the Jaxis one I just about lost it. I would say all textless cards should come with a reminder text card or a replacement card, such as the ones used for double-sided cards. If an opponent doesn't know the card effect because it's not on the card itself, the onus is on you to provide the correct effect.
I very much do not think these should exist
If you've got a new player, and they see one of those? They'll either make the obvious assumption that it does nothing, or the reliance on outside sources of information would make them bounce
It's the same issue Hearthstone's Signature Cards have, but at least those you can hover over to still read the text
I remember a textless lier on the table draging an ultimatum from the grave, o choose to counter the ultimatum. My opponent says ok. Can i solve the ultimat now?
Simple... don't play em if you don't have the text memorized
I think they are a problem the minute they're a permanent with more than one line of text or arent a card who's text is actually burned into the cultures brain.
I can tell you exactly what wrath of God and counterspell do without thinking beyond the name, but certain omnaths i never could.
And yeah my phone is available... until it isnt, and id hate having to keep looking up the cards instead of focusing on the board state and how we're both playing
Basically what everyone here is saying. If it’s a simple card like wrath or hell even goblin king then it’s all good, but the more complicated ones I’d rather people not bring. Although Tbf in my area some people buy the Japanese cards simply because they’re cheaper but no one can read japanese
I’d rather have textless cards than cards that I I can’t read due to the font
Honestly the nigh unreadable and effectively textless cards from Secret Lair are still awful because I literally can't identify what the card is TO look it up, so going "wait what is that again" is tiresome.
With layouts like this? It's so ass backwards from how I parse cards I can't even pick out the info.
They’re basically the same as proxies
I think they're fine but it is annoying when I have to explain what mortify or a cryptic command does but it's whatever really
Reading the card explains the card, oh wait...
Keep it to iconic and simple cards. Brainstorm? Most players know what that does and don’t need it explained. If it needs to be explained, its very simple to do so.
I think gimmicky card styles are getting a little out of hand. Anime cards were amusing for a bit but now we got too many alternate art cards taking up slots in a set that could have gone to something new. I don’t like them anymore.
If you run a card in your deck you should know what it does, and if you don't believe what the person with it says then can look it up. If you have to look up what your card does that's on you tbh
My buddy got me to try modern semi-recently. He said 'Here's burn, ez pz. Just go face.' What he failed to mention is the textless cards in the deck. Lightning Bolt and Helix, ok, cool. I know those cards. I did not know what searing blaze was. 16 textless cards and he only had them in the deck to fuck with people like myself
I think textless cards that are very iconic with one line of rules text are totally fine. Lightning Bolt was perfect. Cryptic Command was not. Omnath and pretty much any creature made in the last 3 years is off limit... It's obnoxious, but the game is getting obnoxious for other reasons anyways
Looks cool for collecting, but seems useless for competition.
Older cards with simple effects like Damnation, Path to Exile, or Lightning Bolt are great for textless versions. The problem is that newer cards have book chapters worth of text on them anymore, and having to look them up on phones is tedious and flow-breaking. Wizards either needs to keep textless versions specifically for older, simpler cards, or make newer cards with less effects
Agreed. I started having a problem with it when they took it from the more iconic cards like Day and Damnation and started applying it to new cards that your average player doesn't already know what it does. Cryptic Command was a weird one. It was very iconic, but it did so many things, I still don't think it should have been included.
We need a textless yargle and multani
Mtg cards aren't even as long as Yu-Gi-Oh or Weiss cards 🙄
I still get Path and Swords mixed.
@@PsychoticSashimiS Yu-Gi-Oh from what I can recall doesn't have keywords so it gives the illusion that there's more to the cards than there is. Can't speak for Weiss
Reading the card explains the… oh wait
Needing to look up the text really breaks the flow of gameplay for me, not a fan at all
I honestly think it's an even bigger issue than that. In a game where slow play and time management is already painful, setting it up to where reading the card takes 1-2 minutes longer can critically damage the game. Especially if a player has 3-4 copies of 3-4 textless cards in their deck or if a card has complex text that can't reasonably be memorized the first time you see it. You can end up losing 5-10 minutes from 3-5 card lookups.
Many players use multiple language cards as the prices vary wildly on certain staples. This is not an issue if players simply remember what their own cards do. Not to mention you can start looking up the English text during another players turn
@@MidgarMerc tbh, foreign language cards are easier for me. There's at least a paragraph for each thing the card does, and for western Europe languages at least it's not difficult to intuit a few words. So easier to be reminded by glancing over
@@MidgarMerc no. remembering your own cards is not good enough.
even in commander I should not have to take your word on what your cards do.
foreign language is fine because those are designed to be read still it would be absurd to stop printing japanese cards because some Americans can't read them.
no one can read these. not the same.
If you’re playing a textless card, I’m going to expect you to have a version with text on hand for me to look at as and when I need to. People can make whatever aesthetic choices they like, but I shouldn’t be punished for them
The only thing I really dislike about the new textless cards is that they don't actually use the card's space properly. All of them have a ton of dead room in the lower third, as if they were supposed to have a transparent text box that was removed last minute.
This sounds way too likely lmao
They’re not a problem, but that doesn’t mean I’d enjoy playing with them.
Yeah, they are cool but I wouldn’t use them. It’s my job to explain what they do to my opponent and so I’d rather not run anything I can’t say off the top of my head. So yeah I’d play a textless ponder or wrath effect but nothing I that has multiple lines of rules text and no permanents.
I'm only fone with it if you know what the card does. Like idc if you play a strixhavenlanguage card as long as you can know what it does.💀
luckily, no one fuckin cares
@@kms199x2 at least we can all agree on that.
As I said on X... Totally a problem. Now if the back was a "standard" version of the card with all the rules it'd be fine.
Textless cards are a problem. They suck and generate confusion. A few exceptions would be fine if it was a basic spell that basically says what it does (murder, cancel, shatter). But doing it to cards that already have a lot of text and modal cards like Cryptic Command is bad game design...
They're pretty, but not having the rules written on the card would get really annoying because looking up the rules online takes a minute, assuming you're in an area with service, which takes longer than it should and I wouldn't want to do that. It's just a big hassle in service of a boost to the visual aesthetic.
The more text a card has, the more problematic the card becomes when made "textless". Cryptic command had 4 different options that a player has to choose 2 effects to apply making it extremely hard to remember the rules unless one remembers or looks it up. Lightning Bolt, conversely, deals 3 damage, damnation destroys all creatures and prevents regeneration, making them much more ideal for a textless verion, as they have 1-off simple effects. Looking up rulings is one thing, looking up one of your opponent's card's effects is another entirely.
Anytime, in gameplay, an external resource is needed to engage or comprehend on a basic level past knowing the fundamental rules, is an issue tbh. The accessibility line's on the whole stayed at regular keywords for like a bunch of reasons; cool art wordless cards are cool for show, and most effective on simple pieces, but whenever physical gamepieces necessitate regular encyclopedic lookup to know their basic functions it's beyond inaccessible, even for regular players
I would agree except that there are shit loads of mechanics not explained by the card, like every single evergreen keyword for example. It just happens that most keywords are often used and easily remembered
If you play a textless card, it's fine... but it only does what it says on the card .
Textless cards are really annoying. And in tournaments, they will ALWAYS cause judge calls.
You sound like the Diablo creators like "you guys don't have phones ?!"
I have a textless Gitrog and Thalia and I keep a copy with the text in deck box of the commander deck.
This is the right move. You're a real one.
It's literally just this simple. This is just how it should be when using text less cards.
Please the love of god, do not tell me Seth just implies "Don't you have phones" is an excuse for text less cards
He's been huffing that Blizzard gas.
I mean a text less counterspell is fine but a text less cryptic command sucks. It's as simple as simple cards should be the only ones and creatures should have symbols for their keywords on the cards somewhere
thief of sanity and other cards like that. just star looking cards from your phone and opponent knows what card you hit
Hes right. Like why you acting like you can't Google stuff on your phone?
but dont u have phone?
I am honestly okay with text less cards on for staples that by saying their name, you know what they do. Off by heart
no one should be expected to know a single card by heart. no matter how iconic or common it is.
Id argue in any competive format or setting where rules get fairly enforced they shouldnt be allow to be played at minimum be forced to bring a proxy that can be referenced without outside help in casualls with friends or just random shop games if other can be fine with the hassle of looking things up trying to remember the rulings then I see no issue if mtg had better apps to search these cards up in timely manner id be more okay with them but they do prove to be issues exspecially for casual players like I could not be bothered to remember your six full art cards by heart nor would I enjoy looking up each one individually to confirm there information
I’m fine with textless cards. Not directly related but I think all foil cards should not have reminder text, and possibly have flavor texted added if deemed reasonable. Even with brand new cards and mechanics, there is so many resources today.
I love textless cards, but i think they should only be for really popular cards that shouldnt need a lookup, like for example lands.
They are, and it's entirely because it is a rule that it is up to the players to keep track of abilities of cards. If you miss an ETB, upkeep, or end of turn effect you can't retroactively use it, once you miss it, it is over, so these cards just lower the barrier for unfair gameplay by not even having text that would be crucial for you to understand how a card works, or what you should keep track of.
I think textless are pretty cool - I just like it when somebody brings a basic version of it WITH text so I can quickly reference it when I need to
It’s a problem when the card is complicated or not easily recognizable.
Also those secret lairs hardly look like a magic card front so it’s even more difficult to recognize.
If your card's in a foreign language due to pricing or you play in that language, that's ok, I'll find the text. If you're making others google your shit because you want to play with bling, you're being a dick.
If you're just a collector, pop off, the full frame arts are nice I guess. On a game design standpoint though, textless cards are full bullshit. It's next-level "exclusive", a major fuck-you to anyone new to the game, straight up "Really? You don't know what WRATH OF GOD does? Well ok, look it up".
It's weird as fuck. Creates the situation of "trust me, it does X". Game stops as the other player inevitably *has* to look it up. Whenever the game has us search for a specific card, it tells us to reveal it, because Magic isn't really about "uh, it's hidden info, but I did it, trust me".