Maybe I have to watcht this again, but I'm confused. Around 21:40, Dr. White said that according to verse 44, if you're drawn by the Father, you'll be raised up on the last day. But it doesn't exactly say that. What it seems to say is that, those who come will be raised up on the last day, and that all those raised up have been drawn by the Father. It doesn't say that all who are drawn come, nor that all drawn will be raised up, but only those drawn who come will be raised up.
So what I would say to this is found in this chapter actually. This is my swing at answering your question, I’m open to further dialogue: “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” John 6:37 KJV So those who are drawn will indeed come to Christ. Some say that that’s essentially what we’re waiting on, is for the last of the called to be gathered.
Verse 44 does say that all who are drawn come, actually. While it's not explicitly stated, it's made implicit with the identical direct objects of "draws" and "raise up," which both refer to the same subject. This identifies the "drawn one" and the "raised one" as one-to-one the same person. In other words, the last clause assumes the fulfillment of the condition, and adds therefore an additional piece of information about the drawn one -- namely, that "that one" will be raised up. Stating the contrapositive of the verse helps in seeing this. The following are logically equivalent statements. Notice the pronouns: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day." "If he is able to come to me, then the Father who sent me has drawn him, and I will raise him up on the last day." Who is the "him" that is raised? Grammatically, the same "him" that is drawn. That is, the one *made able* to come by the Father's drawing also *does* come, because he is raised (ultimately on account of the drawing [giving; 37, 39], and proximately on account of the subsequent coming [37, 40]).
This guy is wrong . And it doesn’t mean it’s up to the human … it’s still all Jesus . Jesus provided the way it’s all him . He did it all . The only thing that is our choice is if we take what he has given us . A free gift of grace . It’s still all him . He did it all
How does one explain to you what is plainly said in scripture ? All understanding can only come to us by the Spirit .And if the Spirit has not given you this
"No one is able" isn't about moral or spiritual inability from birth (Original Sin). It is a condemnation of those in that context of John 6 who were following him for 'worldly reasons' (to be full of food, etc.). Verse 42 is their rejection of his claims to have come from heaven (and be the true bread unto life). So, if they reject this teaching of his they are by default, categorically, those that are "not able", at that point in time, to come to him, as the Father has set out the path of salvation to only those who "hear" and "learn" these things. The issue in all of this is that these people didn't want to understand and their failings are in their control (ACTIVE voice) and therefore condemnatory. How do I know this? It's simple: John 5:34 ESV 34 Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. John 5:40-41 ESV 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. John 5:44-47 ESV 44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? [45] Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. [46] For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. [47] 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?” John 7:16-17 ESV “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. [17] 17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. Man's will is at issue and since man has control of it and can either apply or not apply it to God's plan of salvation, they will be rewarded or punished accordingly.
@21:42 White commits the fallacy of affirming the consequent. John 6:44 does not confirm that "if you're drawn by the father, (then) you'll be raised up on the last day by the son". This is the converse of the claim in John 6:44. John 6:44 makes it clear that "if you are to come to the son, then you must be drawn by the father". From John 6:44 we learn that being drawn by the Father is NECESSARY for coming to the son. But we do not learn from this verse whether or not being drawn by the Father is SUFFICIENT for coming to the son. There is a difference...
If Jesus wanted to say that everyone is drawn, why didn’t he say “everyone can come to me because my father draws everyone. And I will raise everyone who accepts the drawing up on the last day” Because that’s not what Jesus meant. Jesus meant what it says, that all those drawn are raised up, because the direct object is the same of both clauses. The him doesn’t do anything but get drawn and raised up in this statement.
the apostle makes it clear that those who are drawn by the Father unto the Son, Jesus Christ, will be raised up on the last day! So why should you doubt that those who are drawn by God He wouldn't be their SUFFICIENCY for coming to Him in Jesus Christ? God would have said that if something else or believing in someone else or doing a work would make it sufficient to come to the Son, He would have said so, but this would go against believing in the Son for Salvation by faith in His grace alone as God SUFFICIENCY is all you and all believers need!!
If being drawn by the Father is all that we need to come to the Son, then why wouldn't He be our SUFFICIENCY to come to the Son to be saved and eventually be raised on the last day??
@@TheMasterTechie You may or may not be correct about the point you are making, but what is being discussed here is "what does the verse say?" I don't think anyone is trying to argue whether God is sufficient. In the sentence, "...we do not learn from this verse whether...being drawn by the Father is sufficient for coming..., the context of "sufficient" is not meaning about God's capability, but instead, whether it is sufficient logically. In other words, we do not learn from this verse whether being drawn by the Father necessarily means (sufficiently means) the person drawn will come. What we do know from the verse is that those raised up have come, and those who come have been drawn. It doesn't tell us anything about whether there are any who have been drawn but who have not come - unless you assume that all drawn are raised up, which the verse doesn't say.
How do you explain in verse 50 where Jesus says “anyone may eat” and He doesn’t say only certain people may eat. I’m still studying this and not going to side with any man on the issue and instead let the Holy Spirit lead me, but that means in some peoples view the Holy Spirit may not be allowed to lead me because only “certain” people are allowed to come to Jesus. A point being then is all this learning and preaching is worthless because God chose certain people to be saved. So preachers would be taking some credit for a persons salvation if that were the case. Meaning a person is saved by God and the person preaching otherwise there would be no need of preaching the Word if God already chose who can be saved. I am thinking the key to this chapter goes all the way back to the signs of miracles before Jesus left them, and then when they find Him He says they sought Him because they were filled and not because of the signs. He went on to show how the fathers did the same with Moses. If only certain people can be saved then none of us have free will and instead we are all just acting out our characters in a script that was pre written.
"How do you explain in verse 50 where Jesus says “anyone may eat” and He doesn’t say only certain people may eat." I'm not sure what your issue with it is. John 3:16 tells us that whoever believes..., which is the same as if 50 reads anyone may eat. However, I have to note that other translations, including the Legacy Standard Bible, it reads one may eat. Still, either way, I don't see any issue with it. "...only “certain” people are allowed to come to Jesus." Not so. Everyone is "allowed". It's just that only those who have been chosen will want to; and the "want to" is itself a gift (faith) from God - aka grace. "...all this learning and preaching is worthless because God chose certain people to be saved." Of course not! They still need to be saved. And can they be saved without believing? "How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?" "If only certain people can be saved then none of us have free will and instead we are all just acting out our characters in a script that was pre written." It is true that God has ordained all that comes to pass. But he has done so in such a way that we remain culpable for our decisions. How? I don't know. But God hardened Pharoah's heart AND held him accountable. God used Persia against Israel AND destroyed them for coming against Israel. God chose Jacob and rejected Esau before they were even born: "for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that the purpose of God according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, 'The older shall serve the younger.' Just as it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'"
@@reallifelegend4781 the idea that only certain men hear from the Father and therefore everyone else is dependent on those mens understandings and beliefs means that theres an intermediary between them and God. I personally am grossed out by all these intermediaries who tell me i need them to know God.
At 09:55 JW goes into this false dichotomy of 'from reading this text you must be either a universalist or Reformed'. No... you can accept that the "all" means the limited "of the whole" and still be something other than either of those two options. Even non-reformed folks, who know Greek, and who do hermeneutics, accept that "all" means only those in the end who are saved... and yet reject universalism. Not holding to Reformed notions of "election" does not undermine their exegesis of the passage and it's application. This guy is so full of fallacious reasoning it's just mind blowing. After many, many years of listening to him you start to catch on to his every verbal slip.
I know it's been 4 years but I have to say I agree. You nailed it. 🎯 I've seen the "either limited atonement or universalism" strawman countless times and that's just not how it is, but they repeat it anyway.
When you read verse 37 and 39, it's clear that there's a select number of people from out of the world that the father has given to the son. There's no other honest way to interpret this.
James White’s interpretation of John 6:44-45 and 65, while linguistically informed, misses key biblical teachings on free will and God’s universal call to salvation. Simply knowing the original languages doesn’t make one’s interpretation correct-it just allows for more educated mistakes. The Bible clearly shows that God desires all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9) and that His grace is offered to everyone (John 12:32). While God initiates salvation, humans must freely respond (Joshua 24:15; Revelation 22:17). Jesus laments when people resist God’s call (Matthew 23:37), proving that the Father’s drawing is not irresistible. White’s arrogance and his tendency to dismiss interpretations held for 16 centuries through guilt by association reveal a special level of intellectual dishonesty. He’s a smart man, but that only makes him a smart heretic. Salvation involves both God’s grace and our active cooperation (Philippians 2:12-13), affirming the essential role of free will in the process, which White’s interpretation fails to recognize.
@@douglasmcnay644 Why does hell have to enlarge herself to accommodate men, if they were chosen to go there? Isaiah 5:14 King James Version 14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
It's so nice to click on here n not have to watch a commercial. Also Dr.White is a genius.
He's anointed, that's what he is. Not all geniuses come to such sound biblical revelations.
Maybe I have to watcht this again, but I'm confused. Around 21:40, Dr. White said that according to verse 44, if you're drawn by the Father, you'll be raised up on the last day. But it doesn't exactly say that. What it seems to say is that, those who come will be raised up on the last day, and that all those raised up have been drawn by the Father. It doesn't say that all who are drawn come, nor that all drawn will be raised up, but only those drawn who come will be raised up.
So what I would say to this is found in this chapter actually. This is my swing at answering your question, I’m open to further dialogue:
“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”
John 6:37 KJV
So those who are drawn will indeed come to Christ. Some say that that’s essentially what we’re waiting on, is for the last of the called to be gathered.
Verse 44 does say that all who are drawn come, actually. While it's not explicitly stated, it's made implicit with the identical direct objects of "draws" and "raise up," which both refer to the same subject. This identifies the "drawn one" and the "raised one" as one-to-one the same person. In other words, the last clause assumes the fulfillment of the condition, and adds therefore an additional piece of information about the drawn one -- namely, that "that one" will be raised up.
Stating the contrapositive of the verse helps in seeing this. The following are logically equivalent statements. Notice the pronouns:
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up on the last day."
"If he is able to come to me, then the Father who sent me has drawn him, and I will raise him up on the last day."
Who is the "him" that is raised? Grammatically, the same "him" that is drawn. That is, the one *made able* to come by the Father's drawing also *does* come, because he is raised (ultimately on account of the drawing [giving; 37, 39], and proximately on account of the subsequent coming [37, 40]).
This guy is wrong . And it doesn’t mean it’s up to the human … it’s still all Jesus . Jesus provided the way it’s all him . He did it all . The only thing that is our choice is if we take what he has given us . A free gift of grace . It’s still all him . He did it all
How does one explain to you what is plainly said in scripture ? All understanding can only come to us by the Spirit .And if the Spirit has not given you this
@@JesseMongia
The samething can be said about you.
Learning a lot especially consistency thing..tnx
Excellent. Great same methodology gotcha moment.
Thank you👍🏽
can you please explain how the Father teaches. thanks..
The scripture
Fhank you james white you are one of the greatest minds in theology rn
ua-cam.com/video/bF_Iwuh2IUw/v-deo.html
James White DESTROYS James White: On John 6:44
Sad that tradition has blinded many to believe into a God of their contortion, as long as it appeases man's expectation its ok to them...
ua-cam.com/video/bF_Iwuh2IUw/v-deo.html
James White DESTROYS James White: On John 6:44
Great explanation. It is honest and true to the text. Thank you for going through this.
"No one is able" isn't about moral or spiritual inability from birth (Original Sin). It is a condemnation of those in that context of John 6 who were following him for 'worldly reasons' (to be full of food, etc.). Verse 42 is their rejection of his claims to have come from heaven (and be the true bread unto life). So, if they reject this teaching of his they are by default, categorically, those that are "not able", at that point in time, to come to him, as the Father has set out the path of salvation to only those who "hear" and "learn" these things. The issue in all of this is that these people didn't want to understand and their failings are in their control (ACTIVE voice) and therefore condemnatory. How do I know this? It's simple:
John 5:34 ESV
34 Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved.
John 5:40-41 ESV
40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
John 5:44-47 ESV
44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? [45] Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. [46] For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. [47] 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
John 7:16-17 ESV
“My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. [17] 17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.
Man's will is at issue and since man has control of it and can either apply or not apply it to God's plan of salvation, they will be rewarded or punished accordingly.
Well there you go. Salvation is up to man not God. You are bound to reveal yourself sooner or later
Well there I go explaining God's actual plan of salvation as I expose the lies of the Reformed position.
@@jamiejame911
The plan if salvation is for man to decide it. Right!
Can I ask you a question? Is God able to save everyone?
Billy R
God is “doing his best”. These mean old humans won’t let Him save them.
Check out “Reason and Theology” for a deep dive into scripture and church history
Michael Lofton is full of heresy and false doctrine.
John 6:44!!!!
@21:42 White commits the fallacy of affirming the consequent. John 6:44 does not confirm that "if you're drawn by the father, (then) you'll be raised up on the last day by the son". This is the converse of the claim in John 6:44. John 6:44 makes it clear that "if you are to come to the son, then you must be drawn by the father". From John 6:44 we learn that being drawn by the Father is NECESSARY for coming to the son. But we do not learn from this verse whether or not being drawn by the Father is SUFFICIENT for coming to the son. There is a difference...
If Jesus wanted to say that everyone is drawn, why didn’t he say “everyone can come to me because my father draws everyone. And I will raise everyone who accepts the drawing up on the last day”
Because that’s not what Jesus meant. Jesus meant what it says, that all those drawn are raised up, because the direct object is the same of both clauses. The him doesn’t do anything but get drawn and raised up in this statement.
The title reads: John 6:44-45;65
These verses do teach that those drawn will be raised.
the apostle makes it clear that those who are drawn by the Father unto the Son, Jesus Christ, will be raised up on the last day! So why should you doubt that those who are drawn by God He wouldn't be their SUFFICIENCY for coming to Him in Jesus Christ? God would have said that if something else or believing in someone else or doing a work would make it sufficient to come to the Son, He would have said so, but this would go against believing in the Son for Salvation by faith in His grace alone as God SUFFICIENCY is all you and all believers need!!
If being drawn by the Father is all that we need to come to the Son, then why wouldn't He be our SUFFICIENCY to come to the Son to be saved and eventually be raised on the last day??
@@TheMasterTechie You may or may not be correct about the point you are making, but what is being discussed here is "what does the verse say?" I don't think anyone is trying to argue whether God is sufficient.
In the sentence, "...we do not learn from this verse whether...being drawn by the Father is sufficient for coming..., the context of "sufficient" is not meaning about God's capability, but instead, whether it is sufficient logically. In other words, we do not learn from this verse whether being drawn by the Father necessarily means (sufficiently means) the person drawn will come. What we do know from the verse is that those raised up have come, and those who come have been drawn. It doesn't tell us anything about whether there are any who have been drawn but who have not come - unless you assume that all drawn are raised up, which the verse doesn't say.
How do you explain in verse 50 where Jesus says “anyone may eat” and He doesn’t say only certain people may eat. I’m still studying this and not going to side with any man on the issue and instead let the Holy Spirit lead me, but that means in some peoples view the Holy Spirit may not be allowed to lead me because only “certain” people are allowed to come to Jesus. A point being then is all this learning and preaching is worthless because God chose certain people to be saved. So preachers would be taking some credit for a persons salvation if that were the case. Meaning a person is saved by God and the person preaching otherwise there would be no need of preaching the Word if God already chose who can be saved. I am thinking the key to this chapter goes all the way back to the signs of miracles before Jesus left them, and then when they find Him He says they sought Him because they were filled and not because of the signs. He went on to show how the fathers did the same with Moses. If only certain people can be saved then none of us have free will and instead we are all just acting out our characters in a script that was pre written.
"How do you explain in verse 50 where Jesus says “anyone may eat” and He doesn’t say only certain people may eat." I'm not sure what your issue with it is. John 3:16 tells us that whoever believes..., which is the same as if 50 reads anyone may eat. However, I have to note that other translations, including the Legacy Standard Bible, it reads one may eat. Still, either way, I don't see any issue with it.
"...only “certain” people are allowed to come to Jesus." Not so. Everyone is "allowed". It's just that only those who have been chosen will want to; and the "want to" is itself a gift (faith) from God - aka grace.
"...all this learning and preaching is worthless because God chose certain people to be saved." Of course not! They still need to be saved. And can they be saved without believing? "How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?"
"If only certain people can be saved then none of us have free will and instead we are all just acting out our characters in a script that was pre written." It is true that God has ordained all that comes to pass. But he has done so in such a way that we remain culpable for our decisions. How? I don't know. But God hardened Pharoah's heart AND held him accountable. God used Persia against Israel AND destroyed them for coming against Israel. God chose Jacob and rejected Esau before they were even born: "for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that the purpose of God according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, 'The older shall serve the younger.' Just as it is written, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.'"
@@reallifelegend4781 the idea that only certain men hear from the Father and therefore everyone else is dependent on those mens understandings and beliefs means that theres an intermediary between them and God. I personally am grossed out by all these intermediaries who tell me i need them to know God.
In Greek, it does not say “may” as in might or maybe
@@MrKurtnIs this a troll comment? This is so far from what reformed people believe that I can’t tell if you are joking.
This did not age well after Leighton dismantled JW in the latest debate.
LOL. Fantasy ought to be kept yourself son.
Is regeneration a miracle? Flowers couldn’t answer it. He just HAS to defend man so much. It’s pathetic.
At 09:55 JW goes into this false dichotomy of 'from reading this text you must be either a universalist or Reformed'. No... you can accept that the "all" means the limited "of the whole" and still be something other than either of those two options. Even non-reformed folks, who know Greek, and who do hermeneutics, accept that "all" means only those in the end who are saved... and yet reject universalism. Not holding to Reformed notions of "election" does not undermine their exegesis of the passage and it's application. This guy is so full of fallacious reasoning it's just mind blowing. After many, many years of listening to him you start to catch on to his every verbal slip.
I know it's been 4 years but I have to say I agree. You nailed it. 🎯 I've seen the "either limited atonement or universalism" strawman countless times and that's just not how it is, but they repeat it anyway.
When you read verse 37 and 39, it's clear that there's a select number of people from out of the world that the father has given to the son. There's no other honest way to interpret this.
James White’s interpretation of John 6:44-45 and 65, while linguistically informed, misses key biblical teachings on free will and God’s universal call to salvation. Simply knowing the original languages doesn’t make one’s interpretation correct-it just allows for more educated mistakes. The Bible clearly shows that God desires all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9) and that His grace is offered to everyone (John 12:32). While God initiates salvation, humans must freely respond (Joshua 24:15; Revelation 22:17). Jesus laments when people resist God’s call (Matthew 23:37), proving that the Father’s drawing is not irresistible.
White’s arrogance and his tendency to dismiss interpretations held for 16 centuries through guilt by association reveal a special level of intellectual dishonesty. He’s a smart man, but that only makes him a smart heretic. Salvation involves both God’s grace and our active cooperation (Philippians 2:12-13), affirming the essential role of free will in the process, which White’s interpretation fails to recognize.
Even he can be wrong,and he is.
Nice assertion. Would love to see your exegesis to back it up.
@@douglasmcnay644
ua-cam.com/video/bF_Iwuh2IUw/v-deo.html
James White DESTROYS James White: On John 6:44
@@douglasmcnay644
Why does hell have to enlarge herself to accommodate men, if they were chosen to go there?
Isaiah 5:14
King James Version
14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
*plot twist:* dr White is among those drawn but not given