I live in Silchester, I always go on walks around the Roman Wall, it's stunning. What's left is only the foundation of the inner wall and when you realise how thick the walls were and how big the gates were, its astonishing to imagine it in its full glory. Its never lost on me and I recommend anyone to go and see it
Thank you for the comment and description of Silchester. My family lived in the UK for three years when I was a teenager and while I got to see a fairly impressive portion of the entire British isle, there is much that I wish to go back and revisit or see for the first time. In the course of watching these various UA-cam videos on British history and historical places, I’ve been compiling a list of castles, houses, ruins, and other attractions to visit and the list has gotten quite extensive. I have added Silchester to that list. In fact, that list has grown so extensive that if I am to see more than a portion of those places, I believe I will have to spend an entire summer trekking around Britain. In 5 to 7 years when I retire that trip will probably be my retirement present for myself.
You see these guys that have chat GPT accounts dont have to indicate they got all these information from chat GPT, i am not really sure if this is considered plagiarism
It was on the Radio when I was a Child many moons ago. I fell in love with Romans and History. True or not, it has a real pull. All thanks to Rosemary’s book for opening the door to a wonderful world.
She actually wrote three stories about Roman Britain, The Eagle of the Ninth, The Lantern Bearers, and The Silver Branch. They have been collected into one volume titled Three Legions.
I just love the storytelling of these style of documentaries. "we have a mystery, now lets figure it out!", and in the end they are "We still have this mistery, we didnt figure it out, but we had lovely interviews and had our moderator walk through grass and muddy scenery while gesturing wildly."
Your implication, if I understand you correctly, is that the articulation of such mysteries, therefore, is a waste of our time, because there are as yet no clear answers. I disagree with that view.
@@philroberts7238 I would disagree with that view, too. What I meant to imply, and I am sorry if that came across the wrong way, is, that this set-up, this style of documentation is a very often used one, and I often find amusement in the fact that, in such mystery documentations, for the sake of entertainment, the authors pretend to going to solve a mystery of which they already know by the time of editing, that they didnt solve it. Also, the implication of them, as a documentation format, will be more capable of solving that mystery than experts since a hundred of years, and they are now needed to present the topic to the same experts, is a way of storytelling that I find very amusing when I watch these documentations. Because, lets be honest, already by the opener most of the audience will already know, that the mystery will not be solved but rather presented to a new audience, but nonetheless we play along and wait for their answer to the mystery, of which we already know, we won´t get.
And don't forget the old version being changed by learning how the winners lied/suppressed the truth/destroyed/hidden. Then we have things like Piltdown Man. Grains of salt all around.....no???
I forget where I heard it said but history is the birthright and beautiful treasure of all of humanity And I think one of the biggest sins you could commit against humanity is destroying or hiding our history from us
@@duggdog9102 black people were the original native population of every continent. White people came from space and ruined everything. You didn't know this
The Eagle of the 9th was my introduction to history, too!! A great book that led to a life-long interest in Iron Age to Saxon era history ie Roman Britain, give or take a bit
I got introduced to history, when I ran away from my colleagues' bullying and went to the library where they couldn't beat me, there I found a book by Alexander the Great, from then on my love for stories only increased to the point that today I am an archaeologist in the my country Brazil.
One of the best series of novels written about Rome and Roman Britain were the "Veteran of Rome" series by William Kelso. The fate of the Ninth that makes most sense to me is: weakened by events in Britannia the remnants were shipped off to support the Empire's critical needs. The use of Vexillations, this way, was a common practice. Without a strong patron actively seeing to have it built up to its past glory could have led to it never being reconstituted. Rather than one simple reason for its disappearance, it's most likely a combination of these factors.
I was thinking that the Vexillation on the Rhine was probably the remnants of IX Hisp and used Leg VIIII on the tiles. This was also used for the few people on their tombstones, in lieu of IX Hispaña. The Vexillation survived for a while and without a patron, the members were moved to other legions
yeah, not unlikely that somewhere is a document where someone wrote down the edict that the IX. is officially disbanded. It might've been on paper that long decayed, or on stone or clay that is still waiting to be found. And by that time the remains of the legion might already been split up to support other troops elsewhere, making it basically a paper army that only existed in documents.
I loved this on the app but if I’m honest, I like having both episodes together into one full length episode. Tristan is one of my favorite historians along with Matt Hughes
A story that has captivated me since I was about 10 years old (a long time ago) also courtesy of Rosemary Sutcliff. I hope the truth comes to light whilst I'm still around to hear it! The romantic in me hopes that the book got it right!
I was given a copy by my Aunt as a teenager must be 60 years ago. It was a World Book Club edition. So I guess most of the people who originally read it are now in their 70s and 80s. Like the guy in this video it gave me a life long interest in Roman History.
i consider Eagle of the Ninth and The Daughter of Time to be the books that gave me my love of history. And the fact I'm York born and bred made Eagle of the Ninth compulsory reading!
Great to see 'The Daughter of Time' mentioned. I already loved history when, 60 or so years ago, in my 20s, I read that wonderful book by Josephine Tey. It made me a life long supporter of Richard III and I still have a copy of his portrait hanging in my home!
I read that book about Richard III. It was wonderful. Also, We Speak No Treason by Rosemary Hawley Jarman. Fair.interpreted of King Richards character.
The book “The Eagle of the Ninth” seems to have started a number of people into archeology and the common interest in The Romans in England. I remember reading it in the sixties.
I was there 2,000 years ago as part of the IX Legio; we fought the Caledonian, but it was useless. We asked for reinforcement, but Cap. said no, many of our legionnaires were killed, and the few that survived decided to desert to the mountains. Not to mention, the Brigantes were hunting our heads; as you all know, those barbarians were head hunters, and so we had to run and hide. Later, we intermarried with local Britannia women, had a family, and became farmers. We blended with the local populations. When legions came looking for us, we hid and remained hidden. We enjoyed our peaceful farming working life, as did our wives and kids.
@@kelrogers8480 Interestingly, US general George S Patton famously known for his belief in ''Reincarnation'' he believed he lived many lives many guises thought history of mankind and after his death he would once again be reincarnated once again, Patton was once asked while dining with allied commanders notably by british field marshal Alexander CnC of the mediterranean theater of war ( as in the film ) if he thought he was one of Napoleon's Marshals he uniquely ''replied of course field marshalls''. He also strongly believed he was reincarnated though many famous military figures , including General Hannibal, Roman legionnaires , greeks and others thought the military history of mankind. He's poem ''Through the glass of Darkey'' gives a little glimpse of his thoughts of reincarnation in more detail
@soultraveller5027 your comments, are nonsensical ! People have always believed silly things, including Patton. Ridiculous nonsense that means nothing. If anyone had subjective morality, it was old George! Ask the soldier he punched. Vainglorious ass!
@kelrogers8480 Hey muppe, if you can't hold a civil tongue, and if you want to go down that path with me, I will induged too you donk key brain numpty,. Banter is my game aswell ok matey
Could it simply be a case the 9th was disbanded and it’s troops use to replenish the other Legions ? That’s happened may times in history with other armies.
That could have been the case several decades later as to the Legion's eventual disappearance, but there is plenty of evidence now that the 9th simply departed Britain fully intact, to take up their next assignment at the Roman fort at what is now Nijmegen, Holland. See my post above, or the Wikipedia article about the 9th Legion to learn more.
I live in Sheffield and there is a hill fort in a area called wincobank which is believed to be a Brigante one. It’s amazing standing up there thinking of the native Britain’s fighting off the 9th. The Peak Districts hill forts would have also been controlled by them as well.
Theodor Mommsen also analysed the collection of roman coins owned by the family von Bar. Their farmers had collected a huge amount of roman coins while plowing in the region east of the city of Osnabrueck in Germany. In 1892 he published his analyse and suggested that the battle of the Teutoburg Forest must have taken place in that area. Now we know Mommsen was right (see the objects in the Museum of Kalkriese). It's therefore possible that Mommsen was also right when he said the 9th Legion had been wiped out during an uprising in York.
@manfredgrieshaber8693 Actually there is no definitive proof that the main army of three Roman legions was wiped out in the area around Kalkriese, despite what the Osnabruck regional tourist board would like you to believe. Yes, there was some military action between the Romans and Germans in this vicinity, but not nearly enough artifactual evidence toestablish this was the main battlefield. The Roman historian Tacitus stated that at the same time the main battle too place, the many other detachments stationed in the region were also overrun, and this was apparently the case at what must have been the case at Kalkries - a small Roman outpost along an important route used for centures. The earliest archaeological reports prove that rather than this being the random site of an ambush of Roman forces marching through the area, in reality it was a kind of roman outpost along a road as proven by the postholes left by the buildings, as well as large pieces of pottery and even parts of furniture that simply wouldn't be carried at the head of a Roman Army. When they say that hundreds and hundreds of Roman artifacts were found, it is very misleading, as most of these artifacts were tiny fragments like boot nails. It might have been that only one Roman Cohort of approximately 400 men were stationed at this spot, and they were overrun by a much larger German force. From the actual Roman accounts, Kalkriese is too far from the known departure point of the Legions, to be the actual site of the main battle. This is just like the "Lost 9th Legion" Mockumentary we are discussing here -- the German "experts", just the British ones in this video, are deliberately hiding the evidence to keep their popular myths, though at least in the German case, the Legions really were destroyed by their ancient ancestors, unlike in the 9th Legion myth where they simply left to assume a new posting at the Roman fortress at Nijmegen in the Rhineland. I must admit though, that it was a tremendous thrill to actually hold and even peer through the eyeholes of the famous Roman mask from Kalkriese, when it was in a temporary exhibit in Rosenheim, where I helped with some of the other displays in the exhibit!
@@danpeterson114 : Scientists from the Deutsche Bergbau Museum Bochum, Leibniz-Forschungsmuseum für Georessourcen and from the Kalkriese Museum published the results of a new research project on the 16th November 2022: They analysed very small parts of microminerals in many remains of roman equipment found in Kalkriese. They managed to identify a kind of individual chemical fingerprints in all those objects. The main result of this project is that there were a lot of small metal pieces found in the Kalkriese area which belonged to the equipment of men from the 19th legion former stationed in Dangstetten in the south of Germany. And the 19th legion had been wiped out in the battle of the Teutoburg forest. So this is the final proof that the battle took place at Kalkriese as a legioners equipment used to be maintained with local available materials. Small remains in Dangstetten and in Kalkriese show exactly the same specific chemical fingerprint. No other example of any remains except from this legion contains this chemical fingerprint.
The theory that the 9th Legion got wiped out by the Caledonian Picts was proposed by Theodor Mommsen either the late 19th Century Ce . At that time, the last known location of the 9th Legion was in present day York where they were reconstructing a military fortress in stone and the confirmed date was 108CE. Then in 1956, archeologists excavating the remain of the Roman fortress in Nijmegen, Netherlands discovered several tiles dated from 104CE-120CE which bore the stamp of "LEG HISP IX" inscribed on the reverse and a silver-plated bronze pendant, found in the 1990s, that was part of a phalera (military medal) which also bore the stamp of "LEG HISP IX". Also AN altar to Apollo which dated from the same period, was found at nearby Aquae Granni (Aachen, Germany), erected in fulfillment of a vow, by Lucius Latinius Macer, who describes himself as primus pilus (chief centurion) and as praefectus castrorum ("prefect of the camp", i.e. third-in-command) of IX Hispana. These discoveries indicate that the 9th Legion may have been relocated to Continental Europe though some historians argue that it is a detachment rather than the entire legion got relocated. After these discoveries, the trail had gone cold.
What a fascinating video. It was very nice to see the evidence being presented by experts and the tentative conclusions based on that evidence properly weighed and considered. Too many popular presentations seem to feel they have to present an unexpected conclusion.
I live in the netherlands ...in nijmegen and there are diggs and roman finds from time to time. Its a pitty people are not permitted to search with metal detectors anymore without a permit..Because the increase of finding some interesting roman or WW2 stuff for the world to share has decreased significantly.
If anyone wants a good, quasi-somewhat-fictional, read about The Boudican Revolt: Give Simon Scarrow's Eagles of the Empire series a read. Specifically his last 2 books: "Death to the Emperor" & "Rebellion".
‘To future historians, we have disbanded the 3rd janitorial team for the night shift at Morganne Pierpont Bank. They all went home or found another job. They didn’t disappear. Thank you.’
My theory is they were mostly wiped out in Scotland and the story of Agricola rescuing them is a a cover story. The Romans may have transported the bodies back south to hide the defeat. So soon after Boudica news of losing another legion would have been politically untenable. Roman officers were very political creatures.
Normally if that was the case they wouldn't use the legion number again, but I think they continued with using 9th for a long time. My hunch is that there was an unknown redeployment that hasn't been discovered yet.
They discovered bonny Scottish lasses “coming thru the rye”. Settled down. Together created 2 new Scottish clans, the MacNinths and the McLegions. The rest is history.
Eagle of the 9th did it for me too. But for me it was picking up one of my son's books. Loved The Shining Company too. Good survey of all the evidence on the 9th, several which were new to me. One thing I do know is old Momsen's opinion is always worth listening to.
I read Eagle of the Ninth as an 8 year old soon after it was published. This historical novel has shaped perceptions on the 9th, especially in the UK. I suspect it could be as misleading as Ridley Scott's films!
There's archaeological evidence that the IX Legion was first transfered to southern Holland, then onto the Parthian border, where it might have been destroyed in 167AD
But never in 167 :) In 166 the Romans crush the Parthians and burn their cities in Mesopotamia (Iraq) and Media (Iran). This may be the one legion with which a governor advanced at the beginning of the conflict in 161.
Some think that from the way the “9” was written on pottery it was an associated auxiliary unit not the full legion that was moved to what is now the Netherlands. Before that auxiliary units were moved to the Rhine so not unlikely units were also moved to the Low countries.
Definitely a yes in regards to the Legion's departure from Britain intact and subsequent stationing at the Legionary fortress at Nijmegen, which the "experts" of this Mockumentary had to have known, but shamefully withheld in order to keep this popular British myth alive.
There are two Gravestones above SASBACH near Breisach in the Blackforest next to the River Rhein.The stones show the buried are from the Legion Britanicus ,which I think had the remanents of the 9th Legion.They are to be found on the hill behind the Guesthause at Sasbach next to the River Rhein. This is a corner of Germany with a lot of history,well worth a visit after research.Famous French General in the 16-17th Centuries.and abattle was nearby. Also next to the Kaiserstuhl is a small town claiming GEORGE and the DRAGON ! There is a lot more.BE BLESSED😃😃
The ninth legion could have easily been merged and whatever writings of it gone lost over time, seems like a needle in a haystack thing. It didn't disappear over night, the paper trail is lost and that's it. I find the whole Claudian Invasion way more intriguing than the endless search around the Mediterranean of a lost legion.. Still a good upload tho! Thanks
What if after suffering a near defeat at its night camp, it was simply disbanded into other units, replaced by the 6th legion and all records destroyed to avoid military humiliation?
Excellent video! I think you are correct personally. I think they were almost destroyed if not wholly destroyed in the north of Britain. When that happened, they were either disbanded or rolled into the 6th.
The Agricola wrote down his victories and avoided documenting his defeats. It's more than obvious to me the 9th legion was nearly wiped out in the attack on their fort. The Name or Legion number may have been reconstituted later though.
Oh please. The disappearance/destruction of an entire Legion would have made front page news in Rome. Yet there is no mention of such a disaster in the Roman records. The liquidation of a Legion, however, due to manpower requirements elsewhere or budget concerns would have been a normal occurrence. It's a narrative constructed, without any evidence or fact, to make British historians feel good about their ancestors' military prowess.
Have you got any examples of Legions being liquidated due to manpower shortages? Legions had proud history which they looked to protect by protecting their standards etc It would’ve been quite easy for a legion to be wiped out and for it covered up, no one would be running to air their dirty laundry about their mess ups if embarrassments.
The “lost” 9th legion was never “lost”. It returned to the Continent and was disbanded shortly after. People love a good yarn and the legend is certainly more intriguing than the truth. That said, the legion was disbanded. There are numerous instances of legion disbandment and/or amalgamation with other legions to keep up the numbers. The only thing “lost” was the administrative records documenting this legion’s disbandment.
This fits my view which explains why Britain is so heavily influenced by Rome and why Britons ancient history has been eradicated. Where as Ireland and Scotlands was still alive and Briton continued to try to eliminate it with a skill level that could only have come from Rome. All those highly skilled educated men so skilled in building empire just decided to stay in Briton and become lords.
And Everyone living in the island prior to the roman invasion were 'britons' the entire island is fkn britain. They all spoke variations of the same language. Youre slapping entirely different times together like it was all the same era. No. Just no.
So, the Romans didn't really like to write nine as IX. They preferred to write it as VIIII. Similarly, they much preferred to write 4 as IIII, rather than IV. While I would agree that writing Roma numerals in the shorthand version (ie- IX instead of VIIII) is more intuitive and MUCH neater, the Romans themselves would have disagreed. While you will see a healthy mix of the long and short versions, if you visit Italy, it's not because it was written thusly by the Romans, in antiquity. No, when you see the short version used in various parts of Rome, or in other places where Roman handiwork is still extant, what you're seeing is the work of people who came long after the Romans. It could be a modern city council marking something that only appears to be ancient, but is in fact rather modern. Or it could be the work of someone who was earnestly trying to restore fading Roman artefacts, but who just didn't know that the Romans didn't write 4 and 9 like that. SO... If you see "evidence" that says something akin to "Legio IX Was 'ere!" then you can be reasonably certain that it's fake, because anyone alive at that time would have written "Legio VIIII" and not "Legio IX" Nb: Here's some supporting evidence you might like to read, if you remain unconvinced: monochrome-watches.com/why-do-clocks-and-watches-use-roman-numeral-iiii-instead-of-iv/#:~:text=However%2C%20even%20though%20it%20is,4%20(instead%20of%20IV).
Things are actually more complicated. At the time of the Roman Empire there were in fact two languages: Classical Latin and Vulgar Latin (similar and mutually intelligible). Classical Latin was the language spoken in Rome by the educated people (upper classes, and in the Senate), written on monuments, stones, and used by the writers whose work arrived to us. Classical Latin is also the language that we study today on textbooks at school. Vulgar was the language spoken by the un literate masses, and the one used by merchants throughout the Empire. All the romance languages (Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, and others) evolved in parallel and with cross contaminations from Vulgar Latin. The Latin used in the Middle Age too (by the Church and on official documents) was more similar to Vulgar than Latin proper. I am not 100% sure, but to me IX is classical Latin, while VIIII is vulgar, or a later vulgarized (= simplified) form of the classical Latin of the origins. It is also interesting to read Isaac Newton's (the most famous British scientist: F=ma) work: Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica. Still ~300 years ago if you wanted to have an international audience you had to use Latin (probably Vulgar, with many words forged centuries after the fall of the Roman Empire, but basically the same language spoken by the legionaries of Legio IX Hispana, stationed in York, a remote outpost of the Empire). A testimony how far reaching is the heritage of the greatest of all empires.
Considering that absolutely nothing is known about the fate of the Legio IX, they've done remarkably well to spin this documentary out for over an hour 🙄
27:50 - The guys probably were resting after dinner, armor off, some dozing off. Scrambling for their weapons as a horde of screaming Scotsman storm into the camp. I'll bet head (literally) rolled over this mess.
Simple variations in how the numerals were written down. Originally Roman numerals for nine were written as VIIII, but at some point this was changed to IX. If it’s directly from an ancient Roman inscription, then it’s just differences in individual Roman’s educations. If it’s from a presenter, then it may be them referring to the inscription, quoting an inscription, or attempting to describe a hypothetical inscription. One of the units of the ninth legion was particularly known to stamp their building materials with VIIII, and others used IX.
Both ways of writing this number by the Roman's themselves is not unusual, though usually on monuments the more formal way is VIIII. We also see the 14th Roman Legion use both styles to make their number (XIIII and XIV), on surviving clay building tiles, though the most common way is XIIII.
I live at wincobank, an area of modern day sheffield and here we have a Brigante hill Fort, one of three throughout the south yorkshire region. Not much evidence of continuous occupation which leads people to believe it must have not been finished in time for when the romans came by? It has been set on fire as the ramparts are shown to have been burned ? I wonder if the 9th passed by and attacked or found an empty fort so torched it?
So is Hadrian’s wall a protected site all the way across the country? It’s just that there at the end you can see houses built right beside it and I can’t imagine you would be able to keep kids from playing on it. I know I would have been climbing all over it as a child.
The Roman Legion VIIII (NINTH) HISPANIA - was one of the most famous Legions in the Roman Army, they were involved in every major conflict, for at least 2 centuries before the "disappearance" in York, Britain. It is interesting to note that Britain as an Island, contains England, Scotland and Wales, with Ireland very close-by, with only England that was fully integrated into the Roman Empire, could this fact, give us any clues? perhaps it was England that had the best farmlands? perhaps England that had the best mines? perhaps England had the best weather? perhaps England had the best fishing grounds? perhaps England had the best Football Stadiums? The question about what happened to the Ninth Legion VIIII is a mystery that has grown exponentially with the famous book written by Rosemary Sutcliffe in the 1950's, I haven't actually read it, but I think I might now to see if there are any clues left in the book, or in the archaeology, one thing that is worth mentioning is the "military transfer" to the Rhine, they go into the Nijmegen area, that is precisely in the Belgium/Netherlands region, which happened to be the precise areas of major interest for the Spanish Tercios in the Middle Ages (around 15th, 16th, 17th centuries) and it is worth mentioning, that is very, very close to Britain, only within a few hours sailing, so did they go to the Rhine? probably some were transferred there, apparently, there was a "major reinforcements" from those areas into the Ninth Legion, as they had "lost" plenty of fighting legionnaires in the British Wars (or revolts) with some possibly falling in the fighting, and some possibly "taking British Lands" - and simply disappearing into the fog, over the hills, and far away, alliances were formed, with the local tribesmen, and the long list of military accomplishments by the Ninth Legion were assimilated into the British/Celtic tribes, the former soldiers, garrisoned into forts, working building roads, fortifications, ramparts, walls, canals, moats, etc. and fighting life & death struggles, was replaced with "free tribesmen" living and working their landholdings. Later-on replacements from the Rhine, 10 years later went back there, some of the old guards probably went with them. There is no way that an experienced Roman Legion, encamped inside their fortifications were wiped out by fighting tribesmen, it was something else, like the "majority" of the Ninth, slipped across the "border" into Scotland, and then disappeared into the fog, into the hills, into the mountains, where they knew, they would never be "outflanked". *Note: The other notion of the Ninth being transferred to the Judea is never noted, is never written, and is never recorded, it is just a "theory" without a basis, the same for the Ancient Armenians theory, as the Roman Empire seems to have stopped and the junction of Armenia, a little bit like Scotland, Ireland & Wales, but are the Current Armenians, the same people as the Ancient Armenians? as the Eastmal Blob, keeps pushing from the East, BloBBing-in slowly but surely, in fact they got sick of waiting, for the "slowly but surely", and just committed genocide on the Armenians, called the "Armenian Genocide", a kind of TURKEYIZATION of Europeans, with the former European Stronghold of the Caucasus Mountains being specifically very heavily targetted............................................................................................................................................................................ TAKE NOTE: Scottish, Irish & Welsh Peoples, the Ismal/Eastmal Genocide System, targets "White- European Strongholds" LAST WORD: We have a mention of Romania, there on the Black Sea, which was previously "White European Settlements", but we have proof of Romania being very heavily targetted by the Eastmal Genocide System, they put-in puppets from the East, from the "other side of the Black Sea, "FROM THE STANS", get into Romania, learn the language, learn the culture, and then they try to pass themselves off as "Romanians" - so that ISLAMIC & COMMUNISTS & TURKS, then by a short period of "acclimatization's" and deliberate, calculated, engineered and manufactured events, over only a short period of time, maybe 40, 50 or 60 years, NOW BECOME .............................CHRISTIANS & DEMOCRATIC & EUROPEANS................ ALL A MAJOR FARCE AND FALSEHOOD.....OH, AND I ALMOST FORGOT TO MENTION, THEY BECOME LATIN SPEAKERS. AND BY THAT TURK PUPPETS, COULD FLOAT INTO THE "AMERICAS" AND STATE THEY ARE LATIN AMERICANS, WHEN QUITE CLEARLY - THEY ARE NOT. THIS IS A MAJOR DANGER TO THE "FREE-PEOPLES" OF THE AMERICA'S \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ THE EASTMAL BLOBB WANTS TO KEEP-ON BLOBBING-ON IN THE AMERICAS\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Lovely story and a great video, which rather suggests the answer. If the 9th had been slaughtered it would have been a tale nigh on impossible for any number of Romans authors to have resisted writing about. It is most likely that the legion fell afoul of the Roman treasury and were quietly disbanded. That said, I still prefer Rosemary Sutcliff's version 😀
The Ninth was last recorded in Germania Inferior (Netherlands/Belgium) not Britain. The Eagle of the Ninth was entirely fiction. The last records of the Ninth in Britannia were in 108, over ten years before its "disappearance" around 120AD.
Wasn't this doc about the Ninth Legion released a month or so ago? It seems that History Hit needs to rerelease its catalog of docs every 18 months or so? Based upon the frequency of repeated Mary Beard Roman docs on YT.
Why a "boys own" story. I was a 11 year old girl when I first read it in 1964. Every girl in my class also read it. Some liked it, some didn't. But it sure inspired me. Rosemary Sutcliffe was also a 'girl'! This is now 21st C. and times have changed.
During WW1 and WW2 we sometimes dissolved badly depleted divisions to provide reinforcements to other more healthy divisions as it makes sound military sense to do so. This activity was not confined to large units like divisions but all the way down the military scale and it was quite common for a soldier to have his battalion dissolved and to be transferred to another regiment altogether in which that soldier still identified as belonging to his mother unit even while wearing the trappings of his new one. Such is the power of that elusive 'esprit de corps' and I'm fairly sure that an old legionnaire of the Ninth Hispanola had plenty of that and would have liked to have that inscribed on his tomb despite spending a lot of time in other legions. It's for this reason I believe the 9th was dissolved to bring up to strength other legions with a levy of experienced veterans, nothing to do with disgrace, just sound military logic.
@@markthompson8733 Yes, I'm sure they would have but isn't it possible that some records were lost or destroyed or captured and discarded? Or would they have recorded the loss of those records?🤔 Germany is famed for her meticulous record keeping yet vast swathes of it are missing from as recent as the world wars. Are there any known examples of Roman records losses such as seemingly unrecorded events that would normally have been recorded?
Lesson taken from this video: No matter how long an Empire lasts, at the end of the" day" it will vanish into thin air...and the story goes on an on...as long human exists ...
A gnarly old Scot told me; the legion sent a runner back to Braco (Ardoch) from their last known camp at Lixtoll, Perths. & were never heard of again - A clue in the name?
I heard a tale about a Roman legion sent to explore the border between Egypt and Lybia. This legion is supposed to have disappeared from history. Would you do a feature on this incident? Thank you.
This legion was known to be in the province of Germania Inferior during the first half of the second century A.D. It likely was transferred later on to the province of Cappadocia and was the legion lost in 161 A.D. under Sedatius Severianus at Elegia; destroyed by the Parthians under the command of Chosroes.
Have you heard stories of people hearing the eerie sounds of this legion marching through one of the valleys of the Lake District. It’s where the A591 runs north of Thirlmere
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I live in Silchester, I always go on walks around the Roman Wall, it's stunning. What's left is only the foundation of the inner wall and when you realise how thick the walls were and how big the gates were, its astonishing to imagine it in its full glory. Its never lost on me and I recommend anyone to go and see it
Thank you for the comment and description of Silchester. My family lived in the UK for three years when I was a teenager and while I got to see a fairly impressive portion of the entire British isle, there is much that I wish to go back and revisit or see for the first time. In the course of watching these various UA-cam videos on British history and historical places, I’ve been compiling a list of castles, houses, ruins, and other attractions to visit and the list has gotten quite extensive. I have added Silchester to that list.
In fact, that list has grown so extensive that if I am to see more than a portion of those places, I believe I will have to spend an entire summer trekking around Britain. In 5 to 7 years when I retire that trip will probably be my retirement present for myself.
I love how these speakers have entire textbooks of information committed to memory and can share it in such an exciting and informative manner.
Obviously Chat GPT. Have you heard of this chat GPT.
You see these guys that have chat GPT accounts dont have to indicate they got all these information from chat GPT, i am not really sure if this is considered plagiarism
@@erspassky8891What are you going on about?
@@erspassky8891What are you going on about?
They script these things, you know?
Reading "The Eagle of the Ninth" to a 6-year-old. This is how you get kids interested in history! I salute you, Tristan's dad!
I study history, and the amount of students who were either inspired by the Eagle of the ninth, or the ancient greek mythology and legends is huge.
I read it as a kid and went on to steal eagles.
It was on the Radio when I was a Child many moons ago. I fell in love with Romans and History. True or not, it has a real pull. All thanks to Rosemary’s book for opening the door to a wonderful world.
She actually wrote three stories about Roman Britain, The Eagle of the Ninth, The Lantern Bearers, and The Silver Branch. They have been collected into one volume titled Three Legions.
My childhood reading!
I just love the storytelling of these style of documentaries. "we have a mystery, now lets figure it out!", and in the end they are "We still have this mistery, we didnt figure it out, but we had lovely interviews and had our moderator walk through grass and muddy scenery while gesturing wildly."
Your implication, if I understand you correctly, is that the articulation of such mysteries, therefore, is a waste of our time, because there are as yet no clear answers. I disagree with that view.
@@philroberts7238 I would disagree with that view, too. What I meant to imply, and I am sorry if that came across the wrong way, is, that this set-up, this style of documentation is a very often used one, and I often find amusement in the fact that, in such mystery documentations, for the sake of entertainment, the authors pretend to going to solve a mystery of which they already know by the time of editing, that they didnt solve it. Also, the implication of them, as a documentation format, will be more capable of solving that mystery than experts since a hundred of years, and they are now needed to present the topic to the same experts, is a way of storytelling that I find very amusing when I watch these documentations. Because, lets be honest, already by the opener most of the audience will already know, that the mystery will not be solved but rather presented to a new audience, but nonetheless we play along and wait for their answer to the mystery, of which we already know, we won´t get.
I edited my original comment, maybe its more clear now. @@philroberts7238
Fair enough - and I'll add my apology to yours for the trace of snidery in my post.@@Luna-rs6rs
Wishful thinking replaces archaeology in today's universities, evidently.
The beauty of history is that it can change in an instance. New discoveries, new theories, don´t you just love it.
And don't forget the old version being changed by learning how the winners lied/suppressed the truth/destroyed/hidden. Then we have things like Piltdown Man. Grains of salt all around.....no???
I forget where I heard it said but history is the birthright and beautiful treasure of all of humanity
And I think one of the biggest sins you could commit against humanity is destroying or hiding our history from us
Yes the latest is York had a wholly black population and stonehenge was also built by their relatives ,
@@duggdog9102 black people were the original native population of every continent. White people came from space and ruined everything. You didn't know this
@@duggdog9102 You forgot about the trans element who founded York
The Eagle of the 9th was my introduction to history, too!! A great book that led to a life-long interest in Iron Age to Saxon era history ie Roman Britain, give or take a bit
Me too .. Sutcliffe amazing writer. I read as a kid and adult and found I was still fully engaged as with her other novels in series and wider.
I got introduced to history, when I ran away from my colleagues' bullying and went to the library where they couldn't beat me, there I found a book by Alexander the Great, from then on my love for stories only increased to the point that today I am an archaeologist in the my country Brazil.
Bullies don't tend to use libraries lol they to dumb
One of the best series of novels written about Rome and Roman Britain were the "Veteran of Rome" series by William Kelso. The fate of the Ninth that makes most sense to me is: weakened by events in Britannia the remnants were shipped off to support the Empire's critical needs. The use of Vexillations, this way, was a common practice. Without a strong patron actively seeing to have it built up to its past glory could have led to it never being reconstituted. Rather than one simple reason for its disappearance, it's most likely a combination of these factors.
The 9th was closely tied to the Claudio-Julian dynasty. No wonder it was not rebuilt, but rather broken apart.
Worn away by attrition.
I was thinking that the Vexillation on the Rhine was probably the remnants of IX Hisp and used Leg VIIII on the tiles. This was also used for the few people on their tombstones, in lieu of IX Hispaña. The Vexillation survived for a while and without a patron, the members were moved to other legions
yeah, not unlikely that somewhere is a document where someone wrote down the edict that the IX. is officially disbanded. It might've been on paper that long decayed, or on stone or clay that is still waiting to be found.
And by that time the remains of the legion might already been split up to support other troops elsewhere, making it basically a paper army that only existed in documents.
Hi there! Greetings from Bucarest ROMANIA 🍀... I am big fan of history, British is one of them...😊
Romania has an interesting history too😁
@cas4554 Indeed... A multimillenar history... 🤝😊✨
they went over the Scottish border and discovered whisky. No mystery why they never came back.
Maybe tried to drink whiskey
Without paying😊
Brilliant!
There we have it 😊
These are Roman soldiers. They may have discovered the secret of deep fried steak pies and just decided to take early retirement there . . .
the border of the Picts the Scots had not invaded until later
I loved this on the app but if I’m honest, I like having both episodes together into one full length episode. Tristan is one of my favorite historians along with Matt Hughes
I just love that Europe doesn't destroy all their history and just work around a lot of them.
What are you on about? Europe isn't one homogeneous place
Huh?
Europe is light of the world and reference point
A story that has captivated me since I was about 10 years old (a long time ago) also courtesy of Rosemary Sutcliff. I hope the truth comes to light whilst I'm still around to hear it! The romantic in me hopes that the book got it right!
Ditto me
OMG.
I read that book as a 10 year old, which started my love of history. That was 42 years ago.
No one I have met has ever read it!
Thank you!
I was given a copy by my Aunt as a teenager must be 60 years ago. It was a World Book Club edition. So I guess most of the people who originally read it are now in their 70s and 80s. Like the guy in this video it gave me a life long interest in Roman History.
Once you get bitten, that’s it!
I read it in junior school bout 58 years ago forgotten all about it till I saw this UA-cam video.
Same here and I am 58, I also asked some colleagues about the Biggles books again ..nothing
Loved the book and recently reread
It’s really a testament to how good Romans were at documenting things that we don’t have more legions that disappear from history like this
i consider Eagle of the Ninth and The Daughter of Time to be the books that gave me my love of history. And the fact I'm York born and bred made Eagle of the Ninth compulsory reading!
Great to see 'The Daughter of Time' mentioned. I already loved history when, 60 or so years ago, in my 20s, I read that wonderful book by Josephine Tey. It made me a life long supporter of Richard III and I still have a copy of his portrait hanging in my home!
@@Bethi4WFH l have that same portrait! As a proud Yorkist l have a rose of York tattooed on my ankle with the words "Loyaulte Me Lie" above it!
I read that book about Richard III. It was wonderful. Also, We Speak No Treason by Rosemary Hawley Jarman. Fair.interpreted of King Richards character.
The book “The Eagle of the Ninth” seems to have started a number of people into archeology and the common interest in The Romans in England. I remember reading it in the sixties.
Loved it too!
i see real wars of the past. very roman scenes.
sandy area, sunny temple like steps close by. was the birds eye views from minds eye illusions
showing people attacking romans were black dressed, and the one roman kicking ass had a special type helmet different from the others.
I was there 2,000 years ago as part of the IX Legio; we fought the Caledonian, but it was useless. We asked for reinforcement, but Cap. said no, many of our legionnaires were killed, and the few that survived decided to desert to the mountains. Not to mention, the Brigantes were hunting our heads; as you all know, those barbarians were head hunters, and so we had to run and hide. Later, we intermarried with local Britannia women, had a family, and became farmers. We blended with the local populations. When legions came looking for us, we hid and remained hidden. We enjoyed our peaceful farming working life, as did our wives and kids.
Loony.
@@kelrogers8480 Interestingly, US general George S Patton famously known for his belief in ''Reincarnation'' he believed he lived many lives many guises thought history of mankind and after his death he would once again be reincarnated once again, Patton was once asked while dining with allied commanders notably by british field marshal Alexander CnC of the mediterranean theater of war ( as in the film ) if he thought he was one of Napoleon's Marshals he uniquely ''replied of course field marshalls''. He also strongly believed he was reincarnated though many famous military figures , including General Hannibal, Roman legionnaires , greeks and others thought the military history of mankind.
He's poem ''Through the glass of Darkey'' gives a little glimpse of his thoughts of reincarnation in more detail
@soultraveller5027 your comments, are nonsensical ! People have always believed silly things, including Patton. Ridiculous nonsense that means nothing. If anyone had subjective morality, it was old George! Ask the soldier he punched. Vainglorious ass!
@kelrogers8480 Hey muppe, if you can't hold a civil tongue, and if you want to go down that path with me, I will induged too you donk key brain numpty,. Banter is my game aswell ok matey
@kelrogers8480 Hey muppe t if you can't hold a civil tongue, i will return it don't get too sure who your texting big boy
Outstanding programme. The story of the The Ninth Legion is a mystery thats interested me since i was a teenager, along with JFK and the Titanic.
Could it simply be a case the 9th was disbanded and it’s troops use to replenish the other Legions ? That’s happened may times in history with other armies.
That could have been the case several decades later as to the Legion's eventual disappearance, but there is plenty of evidence now that the 9th simply departed Britain fully intact, to take up their next assignment at the Roman fort at what is now Nijmegen, Holland. See my post above, or the Wikipedia article about the 9th Legion to learn more.
exactly
That's what I believe happened.
No, there would have been records of that, like how we know it's happened before in other armies, because its recorded. Dummy.
@@NightShooter87because you're smarter than all these historians? 😂😂😂😂
If you enjoyed Sutcliffe's book, check out the film, "The Eagle" Adapted from Sutcliffe's work, it is really quite good!
Yes it is good .My only quibble is the shaven heads of the caledones but that said good film. Enjoy.
Eww I didn't like it at all 😬
It was also a BBC series in the late 1960’s or 70’s, not sure of the exact date but I remember watching it. That’s how I got into History.
I live in Sheffield and there is a hill fort in a area called wincobank which is believed to be a Brigante one. It’s amazing standing up there thinking of the native Britain’s fighting off the 9th.
The Peak Districts hill forts would have also been controlled by them as well.
You know, I sat here for one hour , unknowingly being subject to other's egos.Bring back Rome.
Love seeing Tristan present. Keep up the great content. 😊
Theodor Mommsen also analysed the collection of roman coins owned by the family von Bar. Their farmers had collected a huge amount of roman coins while plowing in the region east of the city of Osnabrueck in Germany. In 1892 he published his analyse and suggested that the battle of the Teutoburg Forest must have taken place in that area.
Now we know Mommsen was right (see the objects in the Museum of Kalkriese). It's therefore possible that Mommsen was also right when he said the 9th Legion had been wiped out during an uprising in York.
They've been excavating and finding amazing things... gruesome to be sure.. but still stunning
@manfredgrieshaber8693 Actually there is no definitive proof that the main army of three Roman legions was wiped out in the area around Kalkriese, despite what the Osnabruck regional tourist board would like you to believe. Yes, there was some military action between the Romans and Germans in this vicinity, but not nearly enough artifactual evidence toestablish this was the main battlefield. The Roman historian Tacitus stated that at the same time the main battle too place, the many other detachments stationed in the region were also overrun, and this was apparently the case at what must have been the case at Kalkries - a small Roman outpost along an important route used for centures. The earliest archaeological reports prove that rather than this being the random site of an ambush of Roman forces marching through the area, in reality it was a kind of roman outpost along a road as proven by the postholes left by the buildings, as well as large pieces of pottery and even parts of furniture that simply wouldn't be carried at the head of a Roman Army. When they say that hundreds and hundreds of Roman artifacts were found, it is very misleading, as most of these artifacts were tiny fragments like boot nails. It might have been that only one Roman Cohort of approximately 400 men were stationed at this spot, and they were overrun by a much larger German force. From the actual Roman accounts, Kalkriese is too far from the known departure point of the Legions, to be the actual site of the main battle. This is just like the "Lost 9th Legion" Mockumentary we are discussing here -- the German "experts", just the British ones in this video, are deliberately hiding the evidence to keep their popular myths, though at least in the German case, the Legions really were destroyed by their ancient ancestors, unlike in the 9th Legion myth where they simply left to assume a new posting at the Roman fortress at Nijmegen in the Rhineland. I must admit though, that it was a tremendous thrill to actually hold and even peer through the eyeholes of the famous Roman mask from Kalkriese, when it was in a temporary exhibit in Rosenheim, where I helped with some of the other displays in the exhibit!
@@danpeterson114 : Scientists from the Deutsche Bergbau Museum Bochum, Leibniz-Forschungsmuseum für Georessourcen
and from the Kalkriese Museum published the results of a new research project on the 16th November 2022:
They analysed very small parts of microminerals in many remains of roman equipment found in Kalkriese.
They managed to identify a kind of individual chemical fingerprints in all those objects.
The main result of this project is that there were a lot of small metal pieces found in the Kalkriese area which belonged to the equipment of men from the 19th legion former stationed in Dangstetten in the south of Germany. And the 19th legion had been wiped out in the battle of the Teutoburg forest. So this is the final proof that the battle took place at Kalkriese as a legioners equipment used to be maintained with local available materials. Small remains in Dangstetten and in Kalkriese show exactly the same specific chemical fingerprint. No other example of any remains except from this legion contains this chemical fingerprint.
The theory that the 9th Legion got wiped out by the Caledonian Picts was proposed by Theodor Mommsen either the late 19th Century Ce . At that time, the last known location of the 9th Legion was in present day York where they were reconstructing a military fortress in stone and the confirmed date was 108CE. Then in 1956, archeologists excavating the remain of the Roman fortress in Nijmegen, Netherlands discovered several tiles dated from 104CE-120CE which bore the stamp of "LEG HISP IX" inscribed on the reverse and a silver-plated bronze pendant, found in the 1990s, that was part of a phalera (military medal) which also bore the stamp of "LEG HISP IX". Also AN altar to Apollo which dated from the same period, was found at nearby Aquae Granni (Aachen, Germany), erected in fulfillment of a vow, by Lucius Latinius Macer, who describes himself as primus pilus (chief centurion) and as praefectus castrorum ("prefect of the camp", i.e. third-in-command) of IX Hispana. These discoveries indicate that the 9th Legion may have been relocated to Continental Europe though some historians argue that it is a detachment rather than the entire legion got relocated. After these discoveries, the trail had gone cold.
@@MrLantean quite interesting in either case... I can feel more argumentation coming
What a fascinating video. It was very nice to see the evidence being presented by experts and the tentative conclusions based on that evidence properly weighed and considered. Too many popular presentations seem to feel they have to present an unexpected conclusion.
Fascinating and well presented, with intriguing mystery 👍👏👌
I live in the netherlands ...in nijmegen and there are diggs and roman finds from time to time. Its a pitty people are not permitted to search with metal detectors anymore without a permit..Because the increase of finding some interesting roman or WW2 stuff for the world to share has decreased significantly.
some laws are meant to be broken
If anyone wants a good, quasi-somewhat-fictional, read about The Boudican Revolt:
Give Simon Scarrow's Eagles of the Empire series a read. Specifically his last 2 books: "Death to the Emperor" & "Rebellion".
Yes and K.M. Ashman's The Roman Chronicles. Damn fine fiction.
For me it's Douglas Jackson's Rome series
Excellent show. And one of the best channels on UA-cam.
‘To future historians, we have disbanded the 3rd janitorial team for the night shift at Morganne Pierpont Bank. They all went home or found another job. They didn’t disappear. Thank you.’
Legio III Janitorus
Just rewatched the movie Centurion this week.
My theory is they were mostly wiped out in Scotland and the story of Agricola rescuing them is a a cover story. The Romans may have transported the bodies back south to hide the defeat. So soon after Boudica news of losing another legion would have been politically untenable. Roman officers were very political creatures.
Normally if that was the case they wouldn't use the legion number again, but I think they continued with using 9th for a long time.
My hunch is that there was an unknown redeployment that hasn't been discovered yet.
An astounding documentary 👏
Edit: 55:30. "Exceptionally sanguineous". what a great word!!
They discovered bonny Scottish lasses “coming thru the rye”. Settled down. Together created 2 new Scottish clans, the MacNinths and the McLegions. The rest is history.
🎉
Eagle of the 9th did it for me too. But for me it was picking up one of my son's books. Loved The Shining Company too. Good survey of all the evidence on the 9th, several which were new to me. One thing I do know is old Momsen's opinion is always worth listening to.
This is excellent. Love the style of presentation and all the speakers are first class 👍
I think they said "screw this cold rainy rock in the North with its grey skies" and just retired in Florida.
Great documentary. Will we ever know for sure?
I love The Eagle of the Ninth
I read Eagle of the Ninth as an 8 year old soon after it was published. This historical novel has shaped perceptions on the 9th, especially in the UK. I suspect it could be as misleading as Ridley Scott's films!
There's archaeological evidence that the IX Legion was first transfered to southern Holland, then onto the Parthian border, where it might have been destroyed in 167AD
But never in 167 :) In 166 the Romans crush the Parthians and burn their cities in Mesopotamia (Iraq) and Media (Iran). This may be the one legion with which a governor advanced at the beginning of the conflict in 161.
Some think that from the way the “9” was written on pottery it was an associated auxiliary unit not the full legion that was moved to what is now the Netherlands. Before that auxiliary units were moved to the Rhine so not unlikely units were also moved to the Low countries.
Definitely a yes in regards to the Legion's departure from Britain intact and subsequent stationing at the Legionary fortress at Nijmegen, which the "experts" of this Mockumentary had to have known, but shamefully withheld in order to keep this popular British myth alive.
@@RonTodd-gb1eo A lot of genuine legionary inscriptions look amateurish in comparison with inscriptions by training sculptors.
Where in Holland?
Wasn't the movie The Eagle about the IX Legion being gone as well, besides trying to find the Eagle?
The film is based off the Eagle of the ninth legion book that they talk about in this video.
Interesting history...you Brits have some great story tellers
British are really English Welsh. Scots just joined a union with brits
Watch 41 mins on. English gave in. Scots in North fight on
If you are American or Canadian, this is your history too.
There are two Gravestones above SASBACH near Breisach in the Blackforest next to the River Rhein.The stones show the buried are from the Legion Britanicus ,which I think had the remanents of the 9th Legion.They are to be found on the hill behind the Guesthause at Sasbach next to the River Rhein. This is a corner of Germany with a lot of history,well worth a visit after research.Famous French General in the 16-17th Centuries.and abattle was nearby. Also next to the Kaiserstuhl is a small town claiming GEORGE and the DRAGON ! There is a lot more.BE BLESSED😃😃
5000 men and no archaeological evidence, not even a shield. Odd no transport logs to other places? Great program!
The ninth legion could have easily been merged and whatever writings of it gone lost over time, seems like a needle in a haystack thing. It didn't disappear over night, the paper trail is lost and that's it.
I find the whole Claudian Invasion way more intriguing than the endless search around the Mediterranean of a lost legion.. Still a good upload tho! Thanks
What if after suffering a near defeat at its night camp, it was simply disbanded into other units, replaced by the 6th legion and all records destroyed to avoid military humiliation?
I could listen to Lucy Creighton for hours.
Excellent video! I think you are correct personally. I think they were almost destroyed if not wholly destroyed in the north of Britain. When that happened, they were either disbanded or rolled into the 6th.
This story of the V1111 reminds me of the lost legions of Varus in V1111 AD.
Great stuff!
The Agricola wrote down his victories and avoided documenting his defeats. It's more than obvious to me the 9th legion was nearly wiped out in the attack on their fort. The Name or Legion number may have been reconstituted later though.
Not true
They called Obelix Fat! That was the end of the Ninth Legion.
LOL exactly 👍
Love this obscure reference: also precisely what happened
Oh please. The disappearance/destruction of an entire Legion would have made front page news in Rome. Yet there is no mention of such a disaster in the Roman records. The liquidation of a Legion, however, due to manpower requirements elsewhere or budget concerns would have been a normal occurrence. It's a narrative constructed, without any evidence or fact, to make British historians feel good about their ancestors' military prowess.
agree 👍
Have you got any examples of Legions being liquidated due to manpower shortages? Legions had proud history which they looked to protect by protecting their standards etc It would’ve been quite easy for a legion to be wiped out and for it covered up, no one would be running to air their dirty laundry about their mess ups if embarrassments.
Idk about front page news but fair point. I'd say Occam would agree at least.
@@jamierennie9863 Why was the disastrous fate that befell *Legio XVII,* *Legio XVIII* & *Legio XIX* not covered up?
@@jamierennie9863there are also examples of legions losing there standards and they didn't got covered up
Beautifully done! ❤ Tristan.
Quite interesting theories on the demise of the Ninth Legion. Very good documentary film.
The “lost” 9th legion was never “lost”. It returned to the Continent and was disbanded shortly after.
People love a good yarn and the legend is certainly more intriguing than the truth. That said, the legion was disbanded. There are numerous instances of legion disbandment and/or amalgamation with other legions to keep up the numbers.
The only thing “lost” was the administrative records documenting this legion’s disbandment.
This fits my view which explains why Britain is so heavily influenced by Rome and why Britons ancient history has been eradicated. Where as Ireland and Scotlands was still alive and Briton continued to try to eliminate it with a skill level that could only have come from Rome. All those highly skilled educated men so skilled in building empire just decided to stay in Briton and become lords.
'Scotland' didnt exist until long after the end of the roman empire.
And
Everyone living in the island prior to the roman invasion were 'britons' the entire island is fkn britain.
They all spoke variations of the same language.
Youre slapping entirely different times together like it was all the same era.
No. Just no.
Good enough for them! I say it looks very much like they ended up feeding the forest like several other legions that crossed the roman wall.
Great job, guys. I thoroughly enjoyed watching this. Did the British have their own written language at this time?
Of course they did! Haven’t you heard of Cymraeg?
@@megw7312 No!
@@markinglese3874 Is that a … never heard of it?
@@markinglese3874 Cymraeg is now called ‘Welsh’.
@@markinglese3874 The ‘Egyptian’ hieroglyphs are readable using Cymraeg.
I love the Doctor Who episode about the 9th Legion 😍
Britannia has always been that bright red cherry on top of the Roman Empire cake of reign.
CONGRAGULATIONS! YOU DID IT!
A WINNER IS YOU!
So, the Romans didn't really like to write nine as IX. They preferred to write it as VIIII. Similarly, they much preferred to write 4 as IIII, rather than IV.
While I would agree that writing Roma numerals in the shorthand version (ie- IX instead of VIIII) is more intuitive and MUCH neater, the Romans themselves would have disagreed. While you will see a healthy mix of the long and short versions, if you visit Italy, it's not because it was written thusly by the Romans, in antiquity. No, when you see the short version used in various parts of Rome, or in other places where Roman handiwork is still extant, what you're seeing is the work of people who came long after the Romans. It could be a modern city council marking something that only appears to be ancient, but is in fact rather modern. Or it could be the work of someone who was earnestly trying to restore fading Roman artefacts, but who just didn't know that the Romans didn't write 4 and 9 like that.
SO... If you see "evidence" that says something akin to "Legio IX Was 'ere!" then you can be reasonably certain that it's fake, because anyone alive at that time would have written "Legio VIIII" and not "Legio IX"
Nb: Here's some supporting evidence you might like to read, if you remain unconvinced:
monochrome-watches.com/why-do-clocks-and-watches-use-roman-numeral-iiii-instead-of-iv/#:~:text=However%2C%20even%20though%20it%20is,4%20(instead%20of%20IV).
Things are actually more complicated. At the time of the Roman Empire there were in fact two languages: Classical Latin and Vulgar Latin (similar and mutually intelligible). Classical Latin was the language spoken in Rome by the educated people (upper classes, and in the Senate), written on monuments, stones, and used by the writers whose work arrived to us. Classical Latin is also the language that we study today on textbooks at school.
Vulgar was the language spoken by the un literate masses, and the one used by merchants throughout the Empire. All the romance languages (Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, and others) evolved in parallel and with cross contaminations from Vulgar Latin. The Latin used in the Middle Age too (by the Church and on official documents) was more similar to Vulgar than Latin proper.
I am not 100% sure, but to me IX is classical Latin, while VIIII is vulgar, or a later vulgarized (= simplified) form of the classical Latin of the origins.
It is also interesting to read Isaac Newton's (the most famous British scientist: F=ma) work: Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica. Still ~300 years ago if you wanted to have an international audience you had to use Latin (probably Vulgar, with many words forged centuries after the fall of the Roman Empire, but basically the same language spoken by the legionaries of Legio IX Hispana, stationed in York, a remote outpost of the Empire). A testimony how far reaching is the heritage of the greatest of all empires.
Last summer, I saw some ninth legionaries at a gas station in Kalamazoo.
Haha, bravo!
You da best Anna''Keep up the good work you do
Julius Cesar's 9th Legion knew he was an epileptic. & never thought any less of him as a leader.
@33:07 - Isn't that bad Roman? The VIIII? Shouldn't that be IX? Just wondering.
The Maetae did for the 9th on that traditional killing ground, the Carse of Stirling.
Very interesting.
I know I left that Legion around here somewhere.
Excellent.
I think it is very interesting but there is talk about the 9th nlegion. You show tiles with Legio VIIII on it. but isn't 9 in Latin not IX?
Is there a way to find out about the battle with the Ordvician and Silures?
Considering that absolutely nothing is known about the fate of the Legio IX, they've done remarkably well to spin this documentary out for over an hour 🙄
It's a great watch
27:50 - The guys probably were resting after dinner, armor off, some dozing off. Scrambling for their weapons as a horde of screaming Scotsman storm into the camp. I'll bet head (literally) rolled over this mess.
200 strong male bodies were found in a crypt of a church in Wales there was no damage or clothes on the bodies
Maybe they were disbanded and the Romans sent them to other legions and other countries..
35:51. Hadrian's wall seems redundant next to that cliff.
Why is the legion sometimes referred to as IX and alternately as VIIII?
Simple variations in how the numerals were written down. Originally Roman numerals for nine were written as VIIII, but at some point this was changed to IX.
If it’s directly from an ancient Roman inscription, then it’s just differences in individual Roman’s educations. If it’s from a presenter, then it may be them referring to the inscription, quoting an inscription, or attempting to describe a hypothetical inscription.
One of the units of the ninth legion was particularly known to stamp their building materials with VIIII, and others used IX.
Both ways of writing this number by the Roman's themselves is not unusual, though usually on monuments the more formal way is VIIII. We also see the 14th Roman Legion use both styles to make their number (XIIII and XIV), on surviving clay building tiles, though the most common way is XIIII.
IX is much easier to understand immediately than VIIII which you have to count to make sure it's not VIII @@marthahawkinson-michau9611
Showing of their wealth of scholarship - no shortages of stili here.
I live at wincobank, an area of modern day sheffield and here we have a Brigante hill Fort, one of three throughout the south yorkshire region.
Not much evidence of continuous occupation which leads people to believe it must have not been finished in time for when the romans came by?
It has been set on fire as the ramparts are shown to have been burned ? I wonder if the 9th passed by and attacked or found an empty fort so torched it?
Great episode thanks
So is Hadrian’s wall a protected site all the way across the country? It’s just that there at the end you can see houses built right beside it and I can’t imagine you would be able to keep kids from playing on it. I know I would have been climbing all over it as a child.
The Roman Legion VIIII (NINTH) HISPANIA - was one of the most famous Legions in the Roman Army, they were
involved in every major conflict, for at least 2 centuries before the "disappearance" in York, Britain. It is interesting
to note that Britain as an Island, contains England, Scotland and Wales, with Ireland very close-by, with only England
that was fully integrated into the Roman Empire, could this fact, give us any clues? perhaps it was England that had
the best farmlands? perhaps England that had the best mines? perhaps England had the best weather? perhaps
England had the best fishing grounds? perhaps England had the best Football Stadiums?
The question about what happened to the Ninth Legion VIIII is a mystery that has grown exponentially with the famous
book written by Rosemary Sutcliffe in the 1950's, I haven't actually read it, but I think I might now to see if there are any
clues left in the book, or in the archaeology, one thing that is worth mentioning is the "military transfer" to the Rhine,
they go into the Nijmegen area, that is precisely in the Belgium/Netherlands region, which happened to be the precise
areas of major interest for the Spanish Tercios in the Middle Ages (around 15th, 16th, 17th centuries) and it is worth
mentioning, that is very, very close to Britain, only within a few hours sailing, so did they go to the Rhine? probably some
were transferred there, apparently, there was a "major reinforcements" from those areas into the Ninth Legion, as they had
"lost" plenty of fighting legionnaires in the British Wars (or revolts) with some possibly falling in the fighting, and some
possibly "taking British Lands" - and simply disappearing into the fog, over the hills, and far away, alliances were formed,
with the local tribesmen, and the long list of military accomplishments by the Ninth Legion were assimilated into the
British/Celtic tribes, the former soldiers, garrisoned into forts, working building roads, fortifications, ramparts, walls,
canals, moats, etc. and fighting life & death struggles, was replaced with "free tribesmen" living and working their
landholdings. Later-on replacements from the Rhine, 10 years later went back there, some of the old guards probably
went with them. There is no way that an experienced Roman Legion, encamped inside their fortifications were wiped
out by fighting tribesmen, it was something else, like the "majority" of the Ninth, slipped across the "border" into Scotland,
and then disappeared into the fog, into the hills, into the mountains, where they knew, they would never be "outflanked".
*Note: The other notion of the Ninth being transferred to the Judea is never noted, is never written, and is never recorded,
it is just a "theory" without a basis, the same for the Ancient Armenians theory, as the Roman Empire seems to have stopped
and the junction of Armenia, a little bit like Scotland, Ireland & Wales, but are the Current Armenians, the same people as
the Ancient Armenians? as the Eastmal Blob, keeps pushing from the East, BloBBing-in slowly but surely, in fact they got
sick of waiting, for the "slowly but surely", and just committed genocide on the Armenians, called the "Armenian Genocide",
a kind of TURKEYIZATION of Europeans, with the former European Stronghold of the Caucasus Mountains being specifically
very heavily targetted............................................................................................................................................................................
TAKE NOTE: Scottish, Irish & Welsh Peoples, the Ismal/Eastmal Genocide System, targets "White- European Strongholds"
LAST WORD: We have a mention of Romania, there on the Black Sea, which was previously "White European Settlements",
but we have proof of Romania being very heavily targetted by the Eastmal Genocide System, they put-in puppets from
the East, from the "other side of the Black Sea, "FROM THE STANS", get into Romania, learn the language, learn the culture,
and then they try to pass themselves off as "Romanians" - so that ISLAMIC & COMMUNISTS & TURKS, then by a short
period of "acclimatization's" and deliberate, calculated, engineered and manufactured events, over only a short period
of time, maybe 40, 50 or 60 years, NOW BECOME .............................CHRISTIANS & DEMOCRATIC & EUROPEANS................
ALL A MAJOR FARCE AND FALSEHOOD.....OH, AND I ALMOST FORGOT TO MENTION, THEY BECOME LATIN SPEAKERS.
AND BY THAT TURK PUPPETS, COULD FLOAT INTO THE "AMERICAS" AND STATE THEY ARE LATIN AMERICANS,
WHEN QUITE CLEARLY - THEY ARE NOT. THIS IS A MAJOR DANGER TO THE "FREE-PEOPLES" OF THE AMERICA'S
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THE EASTMAL BLOBB WANTS TO KEEP-ON BLOBBING-ON IN THE AMERICAS\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
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Lovely story and a great video, which rather suggests the answer. If the 9th had been slaughtered it would have been a tale nigh on impossible for any number of Romans authors to have resisted writing about. It is most likely that the legion fell afoul of the Roman treasury and were quietly disbanded. That said, I still prefer Rosemary Sutcliff's version 😀
The Ninth was last recorded in Germania Inferior (Netherlands/Belgium) not Britain. The Eagle of the Ninth was entirely fiction. The last records of the Ninth in Britannia were in 108, over ten years before its "disappearance" around 120AD.
That wasn't the "other 9th"?
May I have the source please? Thank you.
Wasn't this doc about the Ninth Legion released a month or so ago?
It seems that History Hit needs to rerelease its catalog of docs every 18 months or so?
Based upon the frequency of repeated Mary Beard Roman docs on YT.
Best video ever
Yes
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Day to get personal knowledge
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😂
Why a "boys own" story. I was a 11 year old girl when I first read it in 1964. Every girl in my class also read it. Some liked it, some didn't. But it sure inspired me. Rosemary Sutcliffe was also a 'girl'! This is now 21st C. and times have changed.
During WW1 and WW2 we sometimes dissolved badly depleted divisions to provide reinforcements to other more healthy divisions as it makes sound military sense to do so.
This activity was not confined to large units like divisions but all the way down the military scale and it was quite common for a soldier to have his battalion dissolved and to be transferred to another regiment altogether in which that soldier still identified as belonging to his mother unit even while wearing the trappings of his new one.
Such is the power of that elusive 'esprit de corps' and I'm fairly sure that an old legionnaire of the Ninth Hispanola had plenty of that and would have liked to have that inscribed on his tomb despite spending a lot of time in other legions.
It's for this reason I believe the 9th was dissolved to bring up to strength other legions with a levy of experienced veterans, nothing to do with disgrace, just sound military logic.
Your reasoning is very plausible..but the Roman military authorities would probably documented such a decision
@@markthompson8733
Yes, I'm sure they would have but isn't it possible that some records were lost or destroyed or captured and discarded?
Or would they have recorded the loss of those records?🤔
Germany is famed for her meticulous record keeping yet vast swathes of it are missing from as recent as the world wars.
Are there any known examples of Roman records losses such as seemingly unrecorded events that would normally have been recorded?
Lesson taken from this video: No matter how long an Empire lasts, at the end of the" day" it will vanish into thin air...and the story goes on an on...as long human exists ...
A gnarly old Scot told me; the legion sent a runner back to Braco (Ardoch) from their last known camp at Lixtoll, Perths. & were never heard of again - A clue in the name?
I heard a tale about a Roman legion sent to explore the border between Egypt and Lybia. This legion is supposed to have disappeared from history. Would you do a feature on this incident? Thank you.
This legion was known to be in the province of Germania Inferior during the first half of the second century A.D. It likely was transferred later on to the province of Cappadocia and was the legion lost in 161 A.D. under Sedatius Severianus at Elegia; destroyed by the Parthians under the command of Chosroes.
Excellent film!!!👍
eagle of the ninth was the beginning of my live of history
Boy you feel for those 2000 Roman soldiers facing off against Boudicas 100,000! Rough odds!
Have you heard stories of people hearing the eerie sounds of this legion marching through one of the valleys of the Lake District.
It’s where the A591 runs north of Thirlmere
Go and look at the Burial stones between Neath ( Nidum ) and Bontfaen ( Bonium) there have been 14000 Burial stones counted with Roman Markings .