Solving the Mystery of the Lost Roman Legion | History Hit Series
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2024
- Tristan Hughes explores what we do know about the Ninth Legion, tracking its history across Britain.
In this documentary, Tristan Hughes tracks the history of the Ninth Legion across the British Isles. From its arrival in Britain during the Claudian Invasion to a dice with death in the Scottish midlands and the last time it is mentioned in history.
Tristan then explores the numerous theories regarding the eventual fate of the Ninth Legion. Was it lost on the northern frontier of Britain, by the Rhine, or massacred in the East?
Featuring Dr Miles Russell, Dr Rebecca Jones, Dr Simon Elliott, Lucy Creighton and Dr David Breeze.
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Reading "The Eagle of the Ninth" to a 6-year-old. This is how you get kids interested in history! I salute you, Tristan's dad!
I study history, and the amount of students who were either inspired by the Eagle of the ninth, or the ancient greek mythology and legends is huge.
I read it as a kid and went on to steal eagles.
It was on the Radio when I was a Child many moons ago. I fell in love with Romans and History. True or not, it has a real pull. All thanks to Rosemary’s book for opening the door to a wonderful world.
She actually wrote three stories about Roman Britain, The Eagle of the Ninth, The Lantern Bearers, and The Silver Branch. They have been collected into one volume titled Three Legions.
My childhood reading!
I just love the storytelling of these style of documentaries. "we have a mystery, now lets figure it out!", and in the end they are "We still have this mistery, we didnt figure it out, but we had lovely interviews and had our moderator walk through grass and muddy scenery while gesturing wildly."
Your implication, if I understand you correctly, is that the articulation of such mysteries, therefore, is a waste of our time, because there are as yet no clear answers. I disagree with that view.
@@philroberts7238 I would disagree with that view, too. What I meant to imply, and I am sorry if that came across the wrong way, is, that this set-up, this style of documentation is a very often used one, and I often find amusement in the fact that, in such mystery documentations, for the sake of entertainment, the authors pretend to going to solve a mystery of which they already know by the time of editing, that they didnt solve it. Also, the implication of them, as a documentation format, will be more capable of solving that mystery than experts since a hundred of years, and they are now needed to present the topic to the same experts, is a way of storytelling that I find very amusing when I watch these documentations. Because, lets be honest, already by the opener most of the audience will already know, that the mystery will not be solved but rather presented to a new audience, but nonetheless we play along and wait for their answer to the mystery, of which we already know, we won´t get.
I edited my original comment, maybe its more clear now. @@philroberts7238
Fair enough - and I'll add my apology to yours for the trace of snidery in my post.@@Luna-rs6rs
Wishful thinking replaces archaeology in today's universities, evidently.
I love how these speakers have entire textbooks of information committed to memory and can share it in such an exciting and informative manner.
Obviously Chat GPT. Have you heard of this chat GPT.
You see these guys that have chat GPT accounts dont have to indicate they got all these information from chat GPT, i am not really sure if this is considered plagiarism
The Eagle of the 9th was my introduction to history, too!! A great book that led to a life-long interest in Iron Age to Saxon era history ie Roman Britain, give or take a bit
Me too .. Sutcliffe amazing writer. I read as a kid and adult and found I was still fully engaged as with her other novels in series and wider.
The Agricola wrote down his victories and avoided documenting his defeats. It's more than obvious to me the 9th legion was nearly wiped out in the attack on their fort. The Name or Legion number may have been reconstituted later though.
The beauty of history is that it can change in an instance. New discoveries, new theories, don´t you just love it.
And don't forget the old version being changed by learning how the winners lied/suppressed the truth/destroyed/hidden. Then we have things like Piltdown Man. Grains of salt all around.....no???
I forget where I heard it said but history is the birthright and beautiful treasure of all of humanity
And I think one of the biggest sins you could commit against humanity is destroying or hiding our history from us
Yes the latest is York had a wholly black population and stonehenge was also built by their relatives ,
@@duggdog9102 black people were the original native population of every continent. White people came from space and ruined everything. You didn't know this
@@duggdog9102 You forgot about the trans element who founded York
I live in Silchester, I always go on walks around the Roman Wall, it's stunning. What's left is only the foundation of the inner wall and when you realise how thick the walls were and how big the gates were, its astonishing to imagine it in its full glory. Its never lost on me and I recommend anyone to go and see it
they went over the Scottish border and discovered whisky. No mystery why they never came back.
Maybe tried to drink whiskey
Without paying😊
Brilliant!
There we have it 😊
These are Roman soldiers. They may have discovered the secret of deep fried steak pies and just decided to take early retirement there . . .
the border of the Picts the Scots had not invaded until later
One of the best series of novels written about Rome and Roman Britain were the "Veteran of Rome" series by William Kelso. The fate of the Ninth that makes most sense to me is: weakened by events in Britannia the remnants were shipped off to support the Empire's critical needs. The use of Vexillations, this way, was a common practice. Without a strong patron actively seeing to have it built up to its past glory could have led to it never being reconstituted. Rather than one simple reason for its disappearance, it's most likely a combination of these factors.
The 9th was closely tied to the Claudio-Julian dynasty. No wonder it was not rebuilt, but rather broken apart.
Worn away by attrition.
I was thinking that the Vexillation on the Rhine was probably the remnants of IX Hisp and used Leg VIIII on the tiles. This was also used for the few people on their tombstones, in lieu of IX Hispaña. The Vexillation survived for a while and without a patron, the members were moved to other legions
Hi there! Greetings from Bucarest ROMANIA 🍀... I am big fan of history, British is one of them...😊
i consider Eagle of the Ninth and The Daughter of Time to be the books that gave me my love of history. And the fact I'm York born and bred made Eagle of the Ninth compulsory reading!
Great to see 'The Daughter of Time' mentioned. I already loved history when, 60 or so years ago, in my 20s, I read that wonderful book by Josephine Tey. It made me a life long supporter of Richard III and I still have a copy of his portrait hanging in my home!
@@Bethi4WFH l have that same portrait! As a proud Yorkist l have a rose of York tattooed on my ankle with the words "Loyaulte Me Lie" above it!
I read that book about Richard III. It was wonderful. Also, We Speak No Treason by Rosemary Hawley Jarman. Fair.interpreted of King Richards character.
A story that has captivated me since I was about 10 years old (a long time ago) also courtesy of Rosemary Sutcliff. I hope the truth comes to light whilst I'm still around to hear it! The romantic in me hopes that the book got it right!
Ditto me
I just love that Europe doesn't destroy all their history and just work around a lot of them.
What are you on about? Europe isn't one homogeneous place
I loved this on the app but if I’m honest, I like having both episodes together into one full length episode. Tristan is one of my favorite historians along with Matt Hughes
The book “The Eagle of the Ninth” seems to have started a number of people into archeology and the common interest in The Romans in England. I remember reading it in the sixties.
Loved it too!
i see real wars of the past. very roman scenes.
sandy area, sunny temple like steps close by. was the birds eye views from minds eye illusions
showing people attacking romans were black dressed, and the one roman kicking ass had a special type helmet different from the others.
OMG.
I read that book as a 10 year old, which started my love of history. That was 42 years ago.
No one I have met has ever read it!
Thank you!
I was given a copy by my Aunt as a teenager must be 60 years ago. It was a World Book Club edition. So I guess most of the people who originally read it are now in their 70s and 80s. Like the guy in this video it gave me a life long interest in Roman History.
Once you get bitten, that’s it!
I read it in junior school bout 58 years ago forgotten all about it till I saw this UA-cam video.
Same here and I am 58, I also asked some colleagues about the Biggles books again ..nothing
Could it simply be a case the 9th was disbanded and it’s troops use to replenish the other Legions ? That’s happened may times in history with other armies.
That could have been the case several decades later as to the Legion's eventual disappearance, but there is plenty of evidence now that the 9th simply departed Britain fully intact, to take up their next assignment at the Roman fort at what is now Nijmegen, Holland. See my post above, or the Wikipedia article about the 9th Legion to learn more.
exactly
I live in the netherlands ...in nijmegen and there are diggs and roman finds from time to time. Its a pitty people are not permitted to search with metal detectors anymore without a permit..Because the increase of finding some interesting roman or WW2 stuff for the world to share has decreased significantly.
some laws are meant to be broken
Fascinating and well presented, with intriguing mystery 👍👏👌
If you enjoyed Sutcliffe's book, check out the film, "The Eagle" Adapted from Sutcliffe's work, it is really quite good!
Yes it is good .My only quibble is the shaven heads of the caledones but that said good film. Enjoy.
Eww I didn't like it at all 😬
An astounding documentary 👏
What a fascinating video. It was very nice to see the evidence being presented by experts and the tentative conclusions based on that evidence properly weighed and considered. Too many popular presentations seem to feel they have to present an unexpected conclusion.
‘To future historians, we have disbanded the 3rd janitorial team for the night shift at Morganne Pierpont Bank. They all went home or found another job. They didn’t disappear. Thank you.’
Legio III Janitorus
Great documentary. Will we ever know for sure?
Beautifully done! ❤ Tristan.
I live in Sheffield and there is a hill fort in a area called wincobank which is believed to be a Brigante one. It’s amazing standing up there thinking of the native Britain’s fighting off the 9th.
The Peak Districts hill forts would have also been controlled by them as well.
You da best Anna''Keep up the good work you do
Excellent show. And one of the best channels on UA-cam.
Excellent film!!!👍
Just rewatched the movie Centurion this week.
Theodor Mommsen also analysed the collection of roman coins owned by the family von Bar. Their farmers had collected a huge amount of roman coins while plowing in the region east of the city of Osnabrueck in Germany. In 1892 he published his analyse and suggested that the battle of the Teutoburg Forest must have taken place in that area.
Now we know Mommsen was right (see the objects in the Museum of Kalkriese). It's therefore possible that Mommsen was also right when he said the 9th Legion had been wiped out during an uprising in York.
They've been excavating and finding amazing things... gruesome to be sure.. but still stunning
@manfredgrieshaber8693 Actually there is no definitive proof that the main army of three Roman legions was wiped out in the area around Kalkriese, despite what the Osnabruck regional tourist board would like you to believe. Yes, there was some military action between the Romans and Germans in this vicinity, but not nearly enough artifactual evidence toestablish this was the main battlefield. The Roman historian Tacitus stated that at the same time the main battle too place, the many other detachments stationed in the region were also overrun, and this was apparently the case at what must have been the case at Kalkries - a small Roman outpost along an important route used for centures. The earliest archaeological reports prove that rather than this being the random site of an ambush of Roman forces marching through the area, in reality it was a kind of roman outpost along a road as proven by the postholes left by the buildings, as well as large pieces of pottery and even parts of furniture that simply wouldn't be carried at the head of a Roman Army. When they say that hundreds and hundreds of Roman artifacts were found, it is very misleading, as most of these artifacts were tiny fragments like boot nails. It might have been that only one Roman Cohort of approximately 400 men were stationed at this spot, and they were overrun by a much larger German force. From the actual Roman accounts, Kalkriese is too far from the known departure point of the Legions, to be the actual site of the main battle. This is just like the "Lost 9th Legion" Mockumentary we are discussing here -- the German "experts", just the British ones in this video, are deliberately hiding the evidence to keep their popular myths, though at least in the German case, the Legions really were destroyed by their ancient ancestors, unlike in the 9th Legion myth where they simply left to assume a new posting at the Roman fortress at Nijmegen in the Rhineland. I must admit though, that it was a tremendous thrill to actually hold and even peer through the eyeholes of the famous Roman mask from Kalkriese, when it was in a temporary exhibit in Rosenheim, where I helped with some of the other displays in the exhibit!
@@danpeterson114 : Scientists from the Deutsche Bergbau Museum Bochum, Leibniz-Forschungsmuseum für Georessourcen
and from the Kalkriese Museum published the results of a new research project on the 16th November 2022:
They analysed very small parts of microminerals in many remains of roman equipment found in Kalkriese.
They managed to identify a kind of individual chemical fingerprints in all those objects.
The main result of this project is that there were a lot of small metal pieces found in the Kalkriese area which belonged to the equipment of men from the 19th legion former stationed in Dangstetten in the south of Germany. And the 19th legion had been wiped out in the battle of the Teutoburg forest. So this is the final proof that the battle took place at Kalkriese as a legioners equipment used to be maintained with local available materials. Small remains in Dangstetten and in Kalkriese show exactly the same specific chemical fingerprint. No other example of any remains except from this legion contains this chemical fingerprint.
The theory that the 9th Legion got wiped out by the Caledonian Picts was proposed by Theodor Mommsen either the late 19th Century Ce . At that time, the last known location of the 9th Legion was in present day York where they were reconstructing a military fortress in stone and the confirmed date was 108CE. Then in 1956, archeologists excavating the remain of the Roman fortress in Nijmegen, Netherlands discovered several tiles dated from 104CE-120CE which bore the stamp of "LEG HISP IX" inscribed on the reverse and a silver-plated bronze pendant, found in the 1990s, that was part of a phalera (military medal) which also bore the stamp of "LEG HISP IX". Also AN altar to Apollo which dated from the same period, was found at nearby Aquae Granni (Aachen, Germany), erected in fulfillment of a vow, by Lucius Latinius Macer, who describes himself as primus pilus (chief centurion) and as praefectus castrorum ("prefect of the camp", i.e. third-in-command) of IX Hispana. These discoveries indicate that the 9th Legion may have been relocated to Continental Europe though some historians argue that it is a detachment rather than the entire legion got relocated. After these discoveries, the trail had gone cold.
@@MrLantean quite interesting in either case... I can feel more argumentation coming
Great episode thanks
Quite interesting theories on the demise of the Ninth Legion. Very good documentary film.
Edit: 55:30. "Exceptionally sanguineous". what a great word!!
There's archaeological evidence that the IX Legion was first transfered to southern Holland, then onto the Parthian border, where it might have been destroyed in 167AD
But never in 167 :) In 166 the Romans crush the Parthians and burn their cities in Mesopotamia (Iraq) and Media (Iran). This may be the one legion with which a governor advanced at the beginning of the conflict in 161.
Some think that from the way the “9” was written on pottery it was an associated auxiliary unit not the full legion that was moved to what is now the Netherlands. Before that auxiliary units were moved to the Rhine so not unlikely units were also moved to the Low countries.
Definitely a yes in regards to the Legion's departure from Britain intact and subsequent stationing at the Legionary fortress at Nijmegen, which the "experts" of this Mockumentary had to have known, but shamefully withheld in order to keep this popular British myth alive.
@@RonTodd-gb1eo A lot of genuine legionary inscriptions look amateurish in comparison with inscriptions by training sculptors.
Where in Holland?
If anyone wants a good, quasi-somewhat-fictional, read about The Boudican Revolt:
Give Simon Scarrow's Eagles of the Empire series a read. Specifically his last 2 books: "Death to the Emperor" & "Rebellion".
Yes and K.M. Ashman's The Roman Chronicles. Damn fine fiction.
For me it's Douglas Jackson's Rome series
I could listen to Lucy Creighton for hours.
Eagle of the 9th did it for me too. But for me it was picking up one of my son's books. Loved The Shining Company too. Good survey of all the evidence on the 9th, several which were new to me. One thing I do know is old Momsen's opinion is always worth listening to.
Great job, guys. I thoroughly enjoyed watching this. Did the British have their own written language at this time?
Isn`t the 9th the legion that was attributed to some building works in Belgium well after the date of their disappearance in history. There is a popular theory that they moved and where not wiped out. Only the evidence of them moving was wiped out ( by time ).
Sometimes it is not a mystery at all.
Excellent.
Excellent
There are two Gravestones above SASBACH near Breisach in the Blackforest next to the River Rhein.The stones show the buried are from the Legion Britanicus ,which I think had the remanents of the 9th Legion.They are to be found on the hill behind the Guesthause at Sasbach next to the River Rhein. This is a corner of Germany with a lot of history,well worth a visit after research.Famous French General in the 16-17th Centuries.and abattle was nearby. Also next to the Kaiserstuhl is a small town claiming GEORGE and the DRAGON ! There is a lot more.BE BLESSED😃😃
Very interesting fakts. Thx
Interesting history...you Brits have some great story tellers
British are really English Welsh. Scots just joined a union with brits
Watch 41 mins on. English gave in. Scots in North fight on
You know, I sat here for one hour , unknowingly being subject to other's egos.Bring back Rome.
The ninth legion could have easily been merged and whatever writings of it gone lost over time, seems like a needle in a haystack thing. It didn't disappear over night, the paper trail is lost and that's it.
I find the whole Claudian Invasion way more intriguing than the endless search around the Mediterranean of a lost legion.. Still a good upload tho! Thanks
I love The Eagle of the Ninth
Good enough for them! I say it looks very much like they ended up feeding the forest like several other legions that crossed the roman wall.
Last summer, I saw some ninth legionaries at a gas station in Kalamazoo.
Haha, bravo!
Respect ✊🏻
Excellent video! I think you are correct personally. I think they were almost destroyed if not wholly destroyed in the north of Britain. When that happened, they were either disbanded or rolled into the 6th.
5000 men and no archaeological evidence, not even a shield. Odd no transport logs to other places? Great program!
I remember listening to a very good radio broadcast of the Eagle of the Ninth when I was about 10. I didn’t then become a historian but I did join the British Army. Not just because of the book but it was influential.
The Ninth was last recorded in Germania Inferior (Netherlands/Belgium) not Britain. The Eagle of the Ninth was entirely fiction. The last records of the Ninth in Britannia were in 108, over ten years before its "disappearance" around 120AD.
That wasn't the "other 9th"?
May I have the source please? Thank you.
The 9th legion was simply disbanded. The Legion was well renowned for its heroic acts against the Celtic Queen’s revolt. The legion must’ve suffered heavy casualties in some unknown battle and the remaining soldiers were reorganized to different legions. There was rumor that the legion was destroyed in the Eastern front against the Parthian’s and to avoid shame the Government decided to quietly disband the legion for good.
The Maetae did for the 9th on that traditional killing ground, the Carse of Stirling.
I know I left that Legion around here somewhere.
Hey thanks for this I’m a bit older watched a lot of Lee Marvin movies over the years had no idea he was a World War II Marine
Thanks for Lee Marvin reference. He lived and met the locals in Tucson Arizona USA. As a Marine sniper he fought at Gaudicanal. After the war he climbed the ranks of roles and joined the large numbers of ex-celebrities living peacefully in Tucson where the locals didn't bother them. He died here. Good fellow and neighbor. My mother met him at the sales counter of a lumber yard. None of the clerks bothered to deal with the two, so Marvin eventually shrugged his shoulders, smiled and walked out and drove off in his old pickup truck.
During WW1 and WW2 we sometimes dissolved badly depleted divisions to provide reinforcements to other more healthy divisions as it makes sound military sense to do so.
This activity was not confined to large units like divisions but all the way down the military scale and it was quite common for a soldier to have his battalion dissolved and to be transferred to another regiment altogether in which that soldier still identified as belonging to his mother unit even while wearing the trappings of his new one.
Such is the power of that elusive 'esprit de corps' and I'm fairly sure that an old legionnaire of the Ninth Hispanola had plenty of that and would have liked to have that inscribed on his tomb despite spending a lot of time in other legions.
It's for this reason I believe the 9th was dissolved to bring up to strength other legions with a levy of experienced veterans, nothing to do with disgrace, just sound military logic.
Best video ever
Yes
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Day to get personal knowledge
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤😂
Why a "boys own" story. I was a 11 year old girl when I first read it in 1964. Every girl in my class also read it. Some liked it, some didn't. But it sure inspired me. Rosemary Sutcliffe was also a 'girl'! This is now 21st C. and times have changed.
They discovered bonny Scottish lasses “coming thru the rye”. Settled down. Together created 2 new Scottish clans, the MacNinths and the McLegions. The rest is history.
Julius Cesar's 9th Legion knew he was an epileptic. & never thought any less of him as a leader.
Is there a way to find out about the battle with the Ordvician and Silures?
Wasn't the movie The Eagle about the IX Legion being gone as well, besides trying to find the Eagle?
The film is based off the Eagle of the ninth legion book that they talk about in this video.
They got to the north west of England, decided that it was the most fabulous place they had ever seen, a real heaven on earth, beautiful women, fantastic food and the Lake District just up the road. I think that they assimilated into my wonderful Lancashire.
I was born in York and lived amongst all the Roman history. The Ninth marched out of York and their ghosts still march around the town. They have been seen in the basement of the Treasurers House in York. I have the Tile Stamp tattooed on my arm. Forever proud to be born in York. My daughter had 7 wisdom teeth, the DNA marker of the Vikings. I have named my film making studio Ninth Legion Films.
I was there 2,000 years ago as part of the IX Legio; we fought the Caledonian, but it was useless. We asked for reinforcement, but Cap. said no, many of our legionnaires were killed, and the few that survived decided to desert to the mountains. Not to mention, the Brigantes were hunting our heads; as you all know, those barbarians were head hunters, and so we had to run and hide. Later, we intermarried with local Britannia women, had a family, and became farmers. We blended with the local populations. When legions came looking for us, we hid and remained hidden. We enjoyed our peaceful farming working life, as did our wives and kids.
It was the same Book by me! Unbelievable but I read it in German and than also the other ones Drachenschiffe am Horizont ,Der Adler der neunten Legion!
I heard a tale about a Roman legion sent to explore the border between Egypt and Lybia. This legion is supposed to have disappeared from history. Would you do a feature on this incident? Thank you.
Good
They called Obelix Fat! That was the end of the Ninth Legion.
Just got to love how they call Scotland the North of Britain lol
Well it IS northern britain.
Britain is the entire island.
@@sugarnadsThat’s the Roman name for England and Wales
Considering that absolutely nothing is known about the fate of the Legio IX, they've done remarkably well to spin this documentary out for over an hour 🙄
This legion was known to be in the province of Germania Inferior during the first half of the second century A.D. It likely was transferred later on to the province of Cappadocia and was the legion lost in 161 A.D. under Sedatius Severianus at Elegia; destroyed by the Parthians under the command of Chosroes.
35:51. Hadrian's wall seems redundant next to that cliff.
Wow.
A gnarly old Scot told me; the legion sent a runner back to Braco (Ardoch) from their last known camp at Lixtoll, Perths. & were never heard of again - A clue in the name?
It was an informative and wonderful historical coverage video about Roman Empire 9th legon and their's building of York City in England 🏴 0 71 AD ..by Roman Empire government .....122 AD 9th legon vanished ?
See Chester fascinates me... built big enough to hold four legions, but never used by four legions. If I had to rebuild a unit, that's where I would send them. Not to a fort by itself.
My theory is they were mostly wiped out in Scotland and the story of Agricola rescuing them is a a cover story. The Romans may have transported the bodies back south to hide the defeat. So soon after Boudica news of losing another legion would have been politically untenable. Roman officers were very political creatures.
Interesting theory that Hadrian's Wall might have been built to keep the people just south of it venturing north.
Why is the legion sometimes referred to as IX and alternately as VIIII?
Simple variations in how the numerals were written down. Originally Roman numerals for nine were written as VIIII, but at some point this was changed to IX.
If it’s directly from an ancient Roman inscription, then it’s just differences in individual Roman’s educations. If it’s from a presenter, then it may be them referring to the inscription, quoting an inscription, or attempting to describe a hypothetical inscription.
One of the units of the ninth legion was particularly known to stamp their building materials with VIIII, and others used IX.
Both ways of writing this number by the Roman's themselves is not unusual, though usually on monuments the more formal way is VIIII. We also see the 14th Roman Legion use both styles to make their number (XIIII and XIV), on surviving clay building tiles, though the most common way is XIIII.
IX is much easier to understand immediately than VIIII which you have to count to make sure it's not VIII @@marthahawkinson-michau9611
Showing of their wealth of scholarship - no shortages of stili here.
It’s one of those things we will likely never know, personally I think it was disbanded to fill out other depleted legions
Go and look at the Burial stones between Neath ( Nidum ) and Bontfaen ( Bonium) there have been 14000 Burial stones counted with Roman Markings .
Boy you feel for those 2000 Roman soldiers facing off against Boudicas 100,000! Rough odds!
The eagle is a great movie
Wasn't this doc about the Ninth Legion released a month or so ago?
It seems that History Hit needs to rerelease its catalog of docs every 18 months or so?
Based upon the frequency of repeated Mary Beard Roman docs on YT.
Known as the VIIII apparently, that’s what was found on a carved stoned in Northumbria. The last time they were mentioned
They went over the Wall and got wiped out by the Picts clearly😂
I suspect that, rather than the Picts, it was wiped out by the Scotch!
magic
27:50 - The guys probably were resting after dinner, armor off, some dozing off. Scrambling for their weapons as a horde of screaming Scotsman storm into the camp. I'll bet head (literally) rolled over this mess.
If a legion was destroyed the name was retired e.g. the legions of Varus.
So, the Romans didn't really like to write nine as IX. They preferred to write it as VIIII. Similarly, they much preferred to write 4 as IIII, rather than IV.
While I would agree that writing Roma numerals in the shorthand version (ie- IX instead of VIIII) is more intuitive and MUCH neater, the Romans themselves would have disagreed. While you will see a healthy mix of the long and short versions, if you visit Italy, it's not because it was written thusly by the Romans, in antiquity. No, when you see the short version used in various parts of Rome, or in other places where Roman handiwork is still extant, what you're seeing is the work of people who came long after the Romans. It could be a modern city council marking something that only appears to be ancient, but is in fact rather modern. Or it could be the work of someone who was earnestly trying to restore fading Roman artefacts, but who just didn't know that the Romans didn't write 4 and 9 like that.
SO... If you see "evidence" that says something akin to "Legio IX Was 'ere!" then you can be reasonably certain that it's fake, because anyone alive at that time would have written "Legio VIIII" and not "Legio IX"
Nb: Here's some supporting evidence you might like to read, if you remain unconvinced:
monochrome-watches.com/why-do-clocks-and-watches-use-roman-numeral-iiii-instead-of-iv/#:~:text=However%2C%20even%20though%20it%20is,4%20(instead%20of%20IV).
Things are actually more complicated. At the time of the Roman Empire there were in fact two languages: Classical Latin and Vulgar Latin (similar and mutually intelligible). Classical Latin was the language spoken in Rome by the educated people (upper classes, and in the Senate), written on monuments, stones, and used by the writers whose work arrived to us. Classical Latin is also the language that we study today on textbooks at school.
Vulgar was the language spoken by the un literate masses, and the one used by merchants throughout the Empire. All the romance languages (Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, and others) evolved in parallel and with cross contaminations from Vulgar Latin. The Latin used in the Middle Age too (by the Church and on official documents) was more similar to Vulgar than Latin proper.
I am not 100% sure, but to me IX is classical Latin, while VIIII is vulgar, or a later vulgarized (= simplified) form of the classical Latin of the origins.
It is also interesting to read Isaac Newton's (the most famous British scientist: F=ma) work: Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica. Still ~300 years ago if you wanted to have an international audience you had to use Latin (probably Vulgar, with many words forged centuries after the fall of the Roman Empire, but basically the same language spoken by the legionaries of Legio IX Hispana, stationed in York, a remote outpost of the Empire). A testimony how far reaching is the heritage of the greatest of all empires.
My "Opinion" is we have very smart, very educated people who came up with the four possibilities .. and if we are luck something will be found to point to one of those four. Logic rules.
Both Nations( Romanian& British) have common historical heritage! Especially latin one. Mind you, both nations have a long history before roman imperial conquest. In fact former Kingdom of Dacia ( Decebalus Rex) was the last major conquest of Roman Emperator Trajan in 106 ad...
12:00 because, after all, Rome is well known for using restraint when setting an example. 😅
My guess at the best explanation based on the evidence or lack of it at the moment supports the theory of a gradual wearing down of the Legion over a period of years until it became so weakened operationaly that Its remaining units were broken up when the 6th arrived and just dissolved amongst other Legions
This would explain perfectly why there are no 9th stamps on any parts of the Hadrians wall for example coupled with the strange complete dissapearance of the 9th suddenly
The reality would be the 9th WAS in fact still "present" physically in some form BUT no longer under the banner of the 9th, its remaining members having been dispersed between the other Legions building the wall thus those same hands that a decade before stamped similar bricks Legio IX Hispania now stamped them with the name of there new parent legion ?
I imagine it rushing around like a firefighter or whack a mole in the North under constant pressure at a time when Britain was not a priority so thus It didn't receive the replacements and supplies It needed to replenish its ranks and the decision on a cost benefit basis was made in the end to just replace It with the 6th
There would probably have been poor morale and a feeling of abandonment by the Empire by this time also and It cant be discounted that this led may have led to some murmerings and cases of insurrection or , desertion even amongst the members, something that may have made reconstituition a worse idea than to split up the remaining units into completely new parent Legions
To me the idea of it being wiped out in the North in one major conflagation seems less likely owing to the fact that this more dramatic end would be more likely to have been recorded somewhere whereras a drip like erosion of Its resources at the very far edge of the Empire then disbandment could more easily pass into history unoticed
Its just NOT such an exciting story Is it?
Sometimes you have to do your best to infer events from the ABSENCE of evidence that you would exoect to be there as well as compared to the presence of eveidence as a historian
What Is MISSING can sometimes tell us as much as what is present !
Anyway for the time being thats my 2 bobs worth!
Loving this anyway, great series and of course I remember like many on here reading The Eagle oi the 9th as a 8-9 yr old and being totally captivated 😍
The most cogent explanation I’ve heard.
I thought the same as your theory, I find it hard to believe nothing was recorded at the time by anyone in government, maybe it was but simply the documents have not survived.
Maybe key personnel in the 9th’s structure were lost and other officers redeployed to an extent that the surviving solders were effectively leaderless and ineffective as a fighting legion. Maybe it was easier to replenish other legions from the remaining numbers rather than try and recruit new replacements.
Many similarities with my Homeland ancient DACIA! Fact is only 1/3 of King Decebalus territory was indeed under Imperial Roma ruled.. the 2/3 rd remained as free dacians such as Carpi& Costoboci tribes who were INVOLVED in numerous clashes with roman legions stationed in Dacia "Felix" .. for instance Legion XIII Gemina from Apulum ( Alba Iulia today) ...
Wasn’t the PICTs and Scottish up North setting up to battle the Romans?.
The 9th got decentimented
A legend of the Pictish peoples is whoever went in never came out