After He Was Done With His Girlfriends He Fed Them to His Pet Alligators

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  • Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
  • Down in Elmendorf, Texas to visit the location of where Joe Ball's also known as the butcher of Elmendorf's bar use to be.
    #truecrime #documentary #death
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    Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Not withstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work for purposes such as criticism, comment, review, and news reporting, is not an infringement of copyright.
    Thanks for watching. I’ll see you in the next video.
    Channel and Thumbnail Artwork 👉🏻 / thescarlettmotive

КОМЕНТАРІ • 477

  • @sinead187
    @sinead187 Рік тому +359

    The people that came to view him feeding cats & dogs to the alligators were just as sick as he was.

    • @texaswildflower7535
      @texaswildflower7535 Рік тому +40

      Sick monsters

    • @Dee_nyce
      @Dee_nyce Рік тому +35

      An idle mind is the devil's workshop.

    • @nikkidodd2305
      @nikkidodd2305 Рік тому +28

      Evil, cruel bastards! Mind boggling how humans can act without conscience and soul!

    • @jhenelle8605
      @jhenelle8605 Рік тому +13

      Exactly

    • @robertstone9988
      @robertstone9988 Рік тому

      Gaters got to eat. You watch your dog eat. Whats the difference? I watch when i feed my snake tho it gets allready dead mice called a pinky. Some bodys job is to gas baby mice for the snake owners all ober the country. Shit eats shit get over it.

  • @laurelvance5533
    @laurelvance5533 Рік тому +194

    I can't imagine throwing a live animal to a gator. Horrible. What an evil devil he was.

    • @kerryberman609
      @kerryberman609 Рік тому +1

      Agreed a total scumbag.

    • @texaswildflower7535
      @texaswildflower7535 Рік тому +18

      No kidding. What a sadistic monster

    • @blanketyblank604
      @blanketyblank604 Рік тому +2

      @@texaswildflower7535 gators have to eat, just like snakes eat rats and mice.

    • @mariuz5991
      @mariuz5991 Рік тому +1

      Life 🧬 is worth loosing,,,,

    • @laurelvance5533
      @laurelvance5533 Рік тому +14

      @@blanketyblank604 let them find their own food. A dog or a cat will offer humans friendship and are worth far more than a cold-hearted gator any day of the week.

  • @catherine59226
    @catherine59226 Рік тому +228

    Working in ER as a surgical RN for thirty years; it still astounds me as to how many truly evil people there are in this world. Horrendous injuries and or death are done by a family member, or partner; more than a stranger. When will it ever end? Thank you as always Lamont for another important story.

    • @lowlifeminitrucker6910
      @lowlifeminitrucker6910 Рік тому +17

      I totally agree, the world is going crazy. So many killings and death everyday. It's sad.

    • @ContrarianExpatriate
      @ContrarianExpatriate Рік тому +15

      Yup, I was in law enforcement for 2 decades and family members or close associates are the first suspects to consider when there is no witness.

    • @originalsixx
      @originalsixx Рік тому +17

      Unfortunately, It will never end...

    • @catherine59226
      @catherine59226 Рік тому +13

      @@ContrarianExpatriate My oldest son is a homicide and corporate crimes detective. Thank you for your service! ❤️

    • @johnmanley9485
      @johnmanley9485 Рік тому +15

      It will end when we leave this life. Evil is all around us

  • @roberthowell287
    @roberthowell287 Рік тому +44

    His final resting place should of been in a gators belly

    • @latasha195
      @latasha195 Рік тому +8

      Exactly what I was thinking!

  • @carolesposto9802
    @carolesposto9802 Рік тому +36

    Lamont it is said that serial killers start by torturing animals. My heart is with all the this man's victims human and animal.

  • @davem8836
    @davem8836 Рік тому +39

    "It's hard to keep employees around, when you treat them like crap, especially when you kill them." Tough to argue that one.

  • @bvillebikelady3651
    @bvillebikelady3651 Рік тому +81

    I've heard about serial killers feeding their victims to pigs or dogs, but gators is a whole new twist! I feel awful that the trust of those women was betrayed like that.
    Great bit of history, Lamont, I really enjoyed the story.

    • @SpaceCadet45s
      @SpaceCadet45s Рік тому +4

      William Pickman and Susan Monica are 2 of them. Watching their interviews make my skin crawl. Truly disturbed individuals.

    • @labyrinthoflies4438
      @labyrinthoflies4438 Рік тому +1

      Well imagine having your babies thrown and fed to alligators. That's what the Edomites did back in the slavery days, to the tribe of Judah.🤔 Still feel bad?

    • @frankorobinson1540
      @frankorobinson1540 Рік тому

      ​@@SpaceCadet45s Robert pickton unfortunately is still alive in prison confessed to killing and feeding 49 victims to his hogs ,real sick person 😢

    • @joannewatts9892
      @joannewatts9892 Рік тому +1

      Enjoyed it ? Not to criticize but you could have used a more appropriate word .

  • @Thetimecapsuletx
    @Thetimecapsuletx Рік тому +55

    You should have left him a plastic alligator. You told that story really well. Riveting!

    • @sandyvanderlinde237
      @sandyvanderlinde237 Рік тому +11

      Plastic aligator, thats a good one, to scare off the next person who thinks to put flowers on his miserable grave. 🤣

    • @SpaceCadet45s
      @SpaceCadet45s Рік тому +6

      Wow that's dark 😅

  • @ellenshaw9883
    @ellenshaw9883 Рік тому +24

    Lamont. Seriously, you should do voice readings from books -audiobooks. Your voice is amazing. Love your videos and follow your channels. Keep up the fantastic job 👏👏👍

  • @karencarbone2603
    @karencarbone2603 Рік тому +76

    Boy Lamont, this guy seemed like a real winner! Feeding women to alligators and dismembering them. So sorry 🙏 for these women,s tragic endings. Stay safe my friend. Thanks for sharing.

  • @hollyb.3615
    @hollyb.3615 Рік тому +58

    No one can tell a story better than you, Lamont! As creepy as this story was, I held onto every word. These poor women who crossed this man's path! The whole thing thought up in his degenerate mind, alligator pit for " entertainment " and as a means of disposal for bodies. I'm sure in that era and that setting it would be awfully hard to track some of these down on the their luck types who seemingly " disappeared " . It finally caught up with him, thank heavens. Good job surveying the property and the final stop at his grave. I wonder how many people there today know anything about this history?

  • @lorigagnon1385
    @lorigagnon1385 Рік тому +26

    Yahoo, another one from my favorite UA-camr! Much appreciation and respect from Alberta Canada ❤️🙏

  • @victoriahazard1181
    @victoriahazard1181 Рік тому +45

    Nothing good can happen for a evil person with a evil heart those poor women thank you for sharing this story Lamont he was a very sick man

  • @kriseckhardt5148
    @kriseckhardt5148 Рік тому +14

    Jeez. I'm never surprised anymore! Thank you Lamont.

  • @mikemartinez2857
    @mikemartinez2857 Рік тому +16

    Lamont living a life that allows him to live well, Beautiful,and it's inspiring.

  • @dancingchicken4141
    @dancingchicken4141 Рік тому +17

    Another fascinating story well told. Every day, I look forward to seeing a video of yours. I especially love it when you walk around, showing us the streets and areas of wherever you happen to be while you give your narration. Has anyone else ever commented on your keen sense of irony? And your eyes are amazing

  • @carjen121
    @carjen121 Рік тому +15

    This man was nothing but a sick monster. How did he get away for so long? Two years in prison they gave him a kiss in the cheek. very interested story Lamont, love you videos❤️👏🏻

  • @wendysmith8246
    @wendysmith8246 Рік тому +24

    Lamont no one can tell a story like you!!! I can listen to you all day! I'M addicted to you!!!😁😁

    • @NickyyTrickyy
      @NickyyTrickyy Рік тому +3

      Hope no one falls for this fake Lamont account!

    • @dianapickett3793
      @dianapickett3793 Рік тому +5

      ​@@NickyyTrickyy thats not Lamont .

    • @NickyyTrickyy
      @NickyyTrickyy Рік тому +4

      @@dianapickett3793 yeh I know , hopefully everyone knows and No one falls for this scammer 👍👍

    • @L.Landen3
      @L.Landen3 6 місяців тому

      What do you mean it's not Lamont? Who is this guy? Thanks!

  • @juliewessels4045
    @juliewessels4045 Рік тому +23

    Thanks for another fascinating story, Lamont! Stay warm, stay safe, and rock on!💜✌

  • @rebeccaschanlaub2863
    @rebeccaschanlaub2863 Рік тому +6

    Lamont, no one tells a story better than you😊

  • @ericjenkins2816
    @ericjenkins2816 Рік тому +13

    Glad to see you doing this one. Not too far from where I live and have heard about this weirdo through the years. Thanks for doing what you do.

  • @lorenzbroll101
    @lorenzbroll101 Рік тому +12

    I am in Europe Mr Lamont but I really enjoy your conducted tours around these unusual places in the USA.

  • @tonybutler8811
    @tonybutler8811 Рік тому +14

    Hi Lamont brilliant and interesting video. May those that died RIP 🙏🙏. Stay safe out there 🇬🇧🇺🇸

    • @juneclark3584
      @juneclark3584 Рік тому

      But what did the alligator 🐊🐊🐊🐊 eat. 🤣

  • @taramaescott8733
    @taramaescott8733 Рік тому +12

    Time to cook dinner and I checked - Upload from Lamont!! Yessss! Haven't even watched yet - but I already know I'm in for a good story! Thanks Lamont - for a guaranteed educational and interestingly told storytime.

  • @debbieinglis143
    @debbieinglis143 Рік тому +10

    Great video Lamont enjoyed that .and your a great story teller to love listening to you 🫶🫶

  • @gokathygo
    @gokathygo Рік тому +17

    Beware of people who own alligators or pigs!!! I heard about him, didn’t know all the details, great video lamont. Watch out for those cars, makes me nervous seeing those cars zoom past you.

    • @sandyvanderlinde237
      @sandyvanderlinde237 Рік тому +6

      I agree, piggy gators, nasty stories. I thought it was just me, you as well, I also worry when Lamont wanders through the streets, he must really be careful. Freaks me out some days.😟

    • @morgellon7877
      @morgellon7877 Рік тому

      ​@@sandyvanderlinde237 Lamont isn't in danger. Lamont IS the danger!

  • @yonitirado3776
    @yonitirado3776 Рік тому +9

    Thank you Lamont at large stay safe out there.

  • @kamscott4201
    @kamscott4201 Рік тому +11

    I'm from San Antonio Texas never heard this one . Great story & I lived in elmendorf for a good while

  • @latasha195
    @latasha195 Рік тому +33

    This is EXTREMELY sickening, disturbing, horrifying and unbelievable! That sick and evil monster killed all of them people senselessly! He even lied about their whereabouts knowing good darn well he killed them! May they all continue to rest peacefully and that evil p.o.s. continue to burn in Hell forever!

  • @cheryldrumheller5086
    @cheryldrumheller5086 Рік тому +9

    I never heard of this fella. Very interesting and as always great coverage Lamont!

  • @kerryberman609
    @kerryberman609 Рік тому +13

    Yow! What a story. Thanks for your continued program!

  • @HORSEYANIME2024
    @HORSEYANIME2024 Рік тому +21

    Rip those women and other people whom were murdered by that scumbag and fed to alligators 😢😢😢😢

  • @tranquilo6897
    @tranquilo6897 Рік тому +12

    I grew up out there. You are awesome

  • @JoeyLaijas
    @JoeyLaijas Рік тому +8

    Knew about the vague lore surrounding this story. Thanks for getting the details, great job.

  • @jessied8585
    @jessied8585 Рік тому +10

    12 minutes in and have to stop and say not only the Alligator guy but all the people who watched him feed live animals, I hope they are all in hell and every demon looks like one of the animals that died. Sick beyond words. My fur baby is 12 and when she has a slight limp from laying too long it breaks my heart and it's nothing. In about 5 steps she's all good. Sick bastards.

  • @johnskipper7060
    @johnskipper7060 Рік тому +12

    I don't understand why people in this country love guns so much I don't own one and don't plan on having one!

    • @latasha195
      @latasha195 Рік тому +3

      I have one for protection only!

    • @johnskipper7060
      @johnskipper7060 Рік тому +2

      I live in federal housing and guns are not allowed.

  • @sweetlisajohnson
    @sweetlisajohnson Рік тому +15

    Hello Lamont and everyone else...ive been sub'd for long long time...your doing awesome 💜 super proud of your hard work.

  • @dgonthehill
    @dgonthehill Рік тому +8

    great narrator, not boring, ty

  • @chrisblack8390
    @chrisblack8390 Рік тому +8

    Cool story! Thanks. Sure were alot of flowers in that cemetery. My towns cemetery is all decorated an at night it's all lit up too.

  • @Softballmomma20
    @Softballmomma20 Рік тому +6

    That’s where my brother lives! I’m definitely sharing this with him. 😮

  • @shirleyallen7374
    @shirleyallen7374 Рік тому +4

    It's more people in that cemetery than in the whole town.

  • @user-fd9sz8er1r
    @user-fd9sz8er1r Рік тому +3

    There are some horrible human beings walking on this Earth that should never have been born ☠️⚰️

  • @marias.2259
    @marias.2259 Рік тому +3

    Evil ain’t gonna leave until the stinking devil is bound for a thousand years

  • @marymcbride9134
    @marymcbride9134 Рік тому +2

    Lamont you are really great with the research of these story's.Lovin it.

  • @colleentownsend4212
    @colleentownsend4212 Рік тому +9

    God Bless you Lamont your a Earth Angel

  • @jayw6811
    @jayw6811 Рік тому +8

    Hi Lamont another great video I feel like I know you have been watching you so long keep up the great Work sir and as always stay safe

  • @JoyceAnn62
    @JoyceAnn62 Рік тому +7

    A lot of people are just born evil what a monster 👺

  • @friendlikem3gan
    @friendlikem3gan Рік тому +2

    Sick doesn't even begin to describe it

  • @shemajragin4606
    @shemajragin4606 Рік тому +9

    Tragic 😢

  • @fedoremelianenko2404
    @fedoremelianenko2404 Рік тому +9

    always a good day when Lamont uploads

  • @AdventuresofmalibuandDad
    @AdventuresofmalibuandDad Рік тому +9

    Great story buddy. You had me hooked. ❤

  • @somelikeithot444
    @somelikeithot444 Рік тому +5

    Good afternoon Lamont.Hope u have a great day!Interesting story.

  • @mjbankhead9063
    @mjbankhead9063 Рік тому +5

    My friend and I live in San Antonio and he worked in Elmendorf. I asked him if he ever heard of The Butcher of Elmendorf and he said no. I had to break the story down to him lol

    • @CTS55555
      @CTS55555 Рік тому

      I live in SA too after moving here from another city in Texas. My friend used to live in SA and her daughter currently owns a house in Elmendorf. They did not know anything about this killer.

  • @Jkk55
    @Jkk55 Рік тому +9

    Hey Lamont what a gruesome tale it's horrifying to think what happened to the other bodies I think we know but I just hope they were dead when they ended up as dinner for alligators!. Stay safe love from the UK x

  • @tinak.356
    @tinak.356 Рік тому +12

    Cock fighting is horrible!! OH MAN!!! So bad!!! Those poor dogs or cats.

  • @heels-villeshoerepairs8613
    @heels-villeshoerepairs8613 Рік тому +8

    Nailed it again! You sounded like you were having a "ball" with this one. 🙃

  • @nydiavelazquez7024
    @nydiavelazquez7024 Рік тому +10

    Hi thank you for sharing these videos. Take care be safe. God bless you.

  • @joeallenboxing
    @joeallenboxing Рік тому +9

    Another great video Lamont. I love your channels!

  • @missamanda2703
    @missamanda2703 Рік тому +4

    My ex-husband was a bigger phyco. He was just chicken, so he couldn't kill, but he would verbally and physically abuse anyone he could

  • @angietunstall2555
    @angietunstall2555 Рік тому +5

    In those plots are a load of Balls! 😉
    Another great story, Lamont. The weather didn't look too clever; the sky was very grey. Hope you were OK while you were filming. Take care! 😀

  • @larryb8022
    @larryb8022 Рік тому +8

    I born and raised in TX love my state I don’t yet carry a gun but when I feel I need to I will. God bless Tx.

  • @mistresskelly5084
    @mistresskelly5084 Рік тому +6

    poor dogs and cats

  • @ragnartvedt5991
    @ragnartvedt5991 Рік тому +6

    Thanks for all your great video's ☺️☺️

  • @susieturk1
    @susieturk1 Рік тому +13

    Fights chickens and tortures animals with alligators in a fake cement aquarium. I already hate him. And I haven't even heard the whole story.

  • @ladyyuna2000
    @ladyyuna2000 Рік тому +12

    💐💐RIP to all the women that lost their lives to this murderer Joseph Douglas Ball (January 7, 1896- September 24, 1938) (aged 42). There is a film called Eaten Alive by Tobe Hooper that was inspired by Ball. The film features a man named Judd, a serial killer who runs a hotel and disposes of his victims' bodies by feeding them to a Nile crocodile.

    • @gokathygo
      @gokathygo Рік тому +2

      I saw that movie, the guy who played Freddie Kruger was in it

  • @tracysmith3076
    @tracysmith3076 Рік тому +3

    Good story. Thanks Lamont

  • @NickyyTrickyy
    @NickyyTrickyy Рік тому +9

    Thakyou Lamont, geez you tell stories so well!! You could have a television series Lol ☺
    LOTSof scammers in the comment's so please everyone be careful x

  • @robinjames1822
    @robinjames1822 Рік тому +3

    Possessed! Pure Evil
    As well as the ppl who watch him feed the gaters innocent pets.

  • @HuaronFatMan
    @HuaronFatMan Рік тому +6

    Alligators wow

  • @robinscarborough6969
    @robinscarborough6969 10 місяців тому

    This story was well done! I was on the edge of my seat, so interesting!!

  • @ooo66o
    @ooo66o Рік тому +4

    This needs to be a movie.

  • @ginalivengood2937
    @ginalivengood2937 Рік тому +1

    There are always scary people in the world. Thanks for the story.

  • @markwebster5749
    @markwebster5749 Рік тому +3

    Awesome as always Lamont 👏🇬🇧 🐊 🐊

  • @shosmyth1454
    @shosmyth1454 Рік тому +2

    Wow Lamont being near San Antonio sounds great! Texas is wonderful state too. Thank you for your hard work to bring interesting stories.

    • @socialninja22
      @socialninja22 Рік тому

      We have an interesting state. Stories like this and the fact that every criminal makes a beeline to Texas!

  • @dellajoycebairdmoses7890
    @dellajoycebairdmoses7890 Рік тому

    Thank you Lamont for another interesting story!

  • @henryliedecke3769
    @henryliedecke3769 11 місяців тому +1

    I'm from Elemendorf TX, My Grandfather told me when he was a young lad he would climb the fence at the Socialble Inn and look at the alligators. Joe Ball would go to the S.A. river and tie a rope to a tree and lasso a gator, and it would spin out of the water and rope its mouth shut at the same time. That's how he caught them.

  • @BlueStar_62
    @BlueStar_62 11 місяців тому

    Thank you . Mr. Lamar for your story's ☺️

  • @davidsharpe426
    @davidsharpe426 Рік тому +4

    Great story. Very strange 😮

  • @renyaference3651
    @renyaference3651 Рік тому +2

    What a story that’s what I love about you Lamont you always have a good story. I really enjoy your work it’s very interesting thank you 🙏🏻 so much ✝️✝️

  • @jameshughes525
    @jameshughes525 Рік тому +9

    I feel bad for the pooch, he-she just needs a friend. And who can blame the dag for choosing Lamont. He's a cool guy😁

  • @jutiansmith5689
    @jutiansmith5689 Рік тому +2

    You make the stories fascinating

  • @HORSEYANIME2024
    @HORSEYANIME2024 Рік тому +7

    Pls post more videos on forgotten murders and crimes

  • @janacollins-maguire4942
    @janacollins-maguire4942 6 місяців тому

    OMG Lamont where do you find these bizarre stories? I've never heard of most of your stories you put out on your channel. Thank you, always interesting!! 💜☮️

  • @starebearMandy
    @starebearMandy Рік тому

    Lamont excellent story telling. You've got the knack. Thank you 🇦🇺🇦🇺

  • @dorothy4762
    @dorothy4762 Рік тому +1

    Hey Lamont I been DOWN with you from the beginning of your UA-camship. What I luv and adore you for. Is your HUMBLENESS and the way you CARRY oneself. And your storytelling is one of a kind, it just can't be duplicated. It truly seems to put you right there in it's story RIGHT!
    So PLEASE stay TRUE and DON'T change one Thing. Because your doing the DAMN THANG.
    ☮️&🙏2UALWAYS🙂❤️💯

  • @footballlvnlady
    @footballlvnlady Рік тому +8

    Great guy to bring home to meet the parents. What an evil person!

  • @sallykohorst8803
    @sallykohorst8803 Рік тому +2

    Well what a horrible man so thanks for showing us how nuts people can be and RIP to all his victims as some had no real burial grounds..

  • @karlaruter3221
    @karlaruter3221 Рік тому +6

    Good job kid. 👏

  • @paigeturner7788
    @paigeturner7788 Рік тому +28

    Hey Lamont, I don’t think you’ve done a story on Marcus Wesson. It would be a great video for you to do if you ever head back to California! It all took place in Fresno, Ca in the mid 2000’s. (& believe me, this guy is the worst of the worst!)
    It would be cool if you could do a video on him. I love your videos & how real & down to earth you are. Stay safe out there. Much respect! 🫶🏻
    Btw, that’s one heck of a way to dispose of a dead body! 😳

    • @davem8836
      @davem8836 Рік тому +6

      The Wesson case falls under the "You can't make this shit up" category.

    • @Bronco5150
      @Bronco5150 Рік тому +2

      Yeah that would be a good one, I have a friend that her daughter dated his son and he wasn’t right and had a daughter and she wasn’t right either

    • @toombs6287
      @toombs6287 Рік тому +1

      He was a sick Muthasucka I don't know why that piece of shit is still living.🤬😢

  • @vickyd4966
    @vickyd4966 Рік тому +12

    I am kin to Hazel.
    he did NOT feed Hazel to the alligators. She has a death certificate. There is a lot about this story online.

    • @latasha195
      @latasha195 Рік тому

      So sorry for you and your family's loss! How horrible!

    • @BooBooKitty65
      @BooBooKitty65 Рік тому

      Oh my goodness so glad to hear that scumbag didnt feed her to the gators. I'm very sorry for the loss of your relative Hazel. May she rest in peace. 🕊🌹

  • @jordanreynolds5483
    @jordanreynolds5483 Рік тому +8

    Great video lamont. Can you possibly make a video on the murders of Sandra stotler, her son Adam stotler and his friend Jeremy Richardson. They were killed because these guys wanted sandra's car. There was a documentary on the case made by werner herzog, and it took place in Conroe Texas.

  • @katerockhill7726
    @katerockhill7726 6 місяців тому +1

    Very interesting and well done, as always.

  • @me2nmineme243
    @me2nmineme243 Рік тому

    I read In Cold Blood @ 8. True crime has always been a passion. But as much as I've seen/read/taken in, I'm amazed that a human being could do this. Your
    informatism is awesome Lamont. Ty for doing the stories others won't.😉

  • @jeanaesamuel47
    @jeanaesamuel47 Рік тому +4

    So very sad and horrible

  • @diamondlate90sbaby18
    @diamondlate90sbaby18 6 місяців тому

    Just imagine all the missing people they were probably fed to alligators after being murdered💔

  • @henryliedecke3769
    @henryliedecke3769 11 місяців тому +1

    Also it is very true that Big Minnie lost her arm in an auto accident, and he did murder her in Corpus Christi, Schatzie was also murdered at the S A River. The third woman was found alive and living in California a year or two after Joe Ball shot himself, but in the chest not in the head. Rumor has it you can still see the bullet hole in the support beam near the roof.

  • @mritzs5142
    @mritzs5142 Рік тому

    Lamont you are a great story teller and historian. Glad I’ve subscribed to you, love how you take the most gruesome stories palatable with your sweet personality❤

  • @rachaelhillson2967
    @rachaelhillson2967 Рік тому +2

    What a vile human .. awful and cruel 😢

  • @victoryforever1915
    @victoryforever1915 Рік тому +2

    He was truly controlled by the devil 👿 No one can do something like this unless he is best friends with Satan.

  • @ky8hu
    @ky8hu Рік тому +4

    I hate to sound so morbid, but dang, this would make a great movie. I've never heard this story before.