Cool stuff, deff visible wing chun, but it's never going to look like movie stuff, fighting always looks more or less the same, framing, pressure and clinch entanglement is what "visible wing chun" is
Heck, I always believed that when it comes to style, it's not that they "look different", I mean in some cases it can but it really depends. No rather, Style is developed and defined on the intent and what the system/style is trying to accomplish. In this case, and what I have seen consistently so far, it seems most Wing Chun fighters pressure and manipulate the clinch
after watching the slow mo, i dont think the student really had a problem with hooks. he let that one thru, but he blocked 3 before it. he blocked some after too. id say this is some of the more solid wing chun ive seen.
wing chun frames can 100% block a hook when accompanied by attacking and constant forward pressure. the only way a wing chun guy stops a mobile mma person is straight away jamming their weapons and pushing them back so far they reach a wall. (in my opinion, pls dont send hate comments)
Without good grappling knowledge that makes you quite easy to tie up though, grappling which very few Wing Chun schools will teach you. Its the same for Boxing based on infighting, or to a lesser degree Muay Thai clinching, they all let a grappler to close in to work the same way it works in the "pure" version of the respective art.
@@Trash0815 Anti grappling is in the wing chun system, all the wing chun guy needs is experienced with grapplers or training grappling. That’s why wrestlers and grapplers who go into wing chun love it because it lives in grappling space. Wing chun people should know how to hold there structure and not get tied up. If not it’s their fault because the whole system teaches it with emphasis. Edit: wing chun should love clinching as well because that’s where a person can use sensitivity. It obviously just takes experience experimenting and applying there wing chun outside of the school. Not just losing one fight using wing chun against a different martial art and giving up on their wing chun training.
@@Beave98 The Idea that Ip-Man in the 1950s had the slightest idea how to counter modern MMA is beyond ridiculous there is no useful anti grappling in Wing Chun, and some make believe like Kernspechts or Emin Bozepte is at best some second class wrestling they took from their local wrestling, nothing that could deal with the true revolution that happened due to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu did in the 1980ies, thats nothing to be ashamed of, but lets not get back to the mystical all knowing Chinese art trope.
@@Trash0815 of course Chinese martial arts will have anti grappling, there are possibly hundreds of different martial in China and the idea that a art like wing chun wouldn’t have at least basic chin na when popular grappling arts like shou jiao existed at the same time while wing chun was developing is absurd, there are videos on channels such as myvlma and izzo wing chun that talk about this in depth with practical demonstrations please refer to those
wing chun frames can block hooks, but only if theyre done right. you have to be more rigid to do some kung fu styles, despite all the talk they do about fluidity and relaxation. maybe thats why, its compensatory. Anyway, the arm shields arent meant to move around that much. wing chun people get hooked because they move their frames too often, and then cant keep track of where their arms are, so hooks sneak in. I think they try to "do" their arm frames when its unnecessary because they want to show off theyre doing wing chun. but mostly the arms should be stable and only move small bits and when necessary. they also have to be timed with body rotation in all planes, and directional movement. not a lot of wing chun guys are able to get that down. the teacher had it down more but wasnt as active as i think he needed to be. maybe cuz it was a light spar. the student has it down well, but moves arms a bit too much. though maybe he just got too into the sparring. It looks to me that he is trying to have a rhythm to his style though, which im not sure is the best idea for arts like wing chun. the rhythm thing is more of a western idea from my understanding, rather than an eastern idea. they focus on timing and initiative and such, but not so much rhythm traditionally. I could be wrong about that though, i just havent seen much of it in traditional arts. I think it works for some styles better than others, and moreso in combat sports than in self defense.
6:23 thats not a bad habit from the wooden dummy. or chi sao. Chi sao doesnt even teach you to linger you hands out...its a sensitivity drill. SMH... Thats a bad habit from trying to keep the traditional wing chun stance too much instead of keeping a natural hand up fighting stance. Please go learn wing chun before commenting on it.
Wing chun people need to stop reaching for attacks to block. The more you reach the more you get caught. Other than that the two wing chun guys are good for testing themselves and sgowing some decent fight intelligence. Also good etiquette on both sidesm although i was a little reserved when wing chun dudes would go for throat shots. Gotta be careful and respectful
George foreman probably had the best wing chun guard in boxing 😅 he'd frame out with raised elbows and palm the inside of the bicep to block hooks that would try to get around his hand trapping
@@MusouKing4816 I was making a joke man, obviously George Foreman didn't do wing chun 😂 but his hand fighting and trapping techniques are kinda like an effective version of wing chun concepts
@@Autonamatonamaton yeah true I never really thought of it like that but his long guard and cross guard are kinda like the effective version of Wing Chun
We need to research the different positions and hand positions to make it work. There’s always something we’re not seeing. I feel that for it to really work you gotta go past the elbow to really understand the application or past the shoulders. Use your hand position in Wing chun cause that’s where it’s really effective.
Did you ever watch jin Young the China boxer? He had some cool stuff but i never saw him apply it in sparring. I believe his channel became art of pressure fighting or something along those lines.
1:08 it's not unfair to the MMA guy. It makes it easier for him to block punches. Muay Thai and Boxing blocks work because the gloves are big. They become less effective when the gloves are smaller
I speculate that some of the slaps were meant to be chops to the neck. I felt it was hard to fully judge the Wing Chun as they didn't go full force. But, seeing as they did attempt eye pokes/gauges it's understandable. I do feel respect to what they did accomplish though. It looks like a good use of training.
@screamtheguy6425 yeah I definitely didn't phrase my first comment well. I should've said they looked "different" - definitely still recognizably wing chun.
Great video. The first two WC students used traditional techniques, but it's hard to block, parry, or frame if they have no understanding of timing head/foot movement. This is where I disagree about you about training on the wooden dummy. The issue isn't it's use, but how it's used. If a person only uses stationary techniques, then they will have trouble fighting a person that moves. After doing WC first, then boxing... The philly shell allows me to utilize a lot of my WC techniques. Just my thoughts.
If you do that you’re gonna get kicked and teped. Have you ever seen Kevin Lee wing chin master fight mma guys? He knows you can’t use wing chin stance without changing it to match the attacks of mma. And Kevin lee is pretty good
I agree this is a whole lot than not really paying attention even that wouldn’t done because I truly disagree what he said about the wooden dummy giving bad habits. It’s just a lot of application. People is not paying attention too and what most people don’t really pay attention to the footwork changes to technique so it’s all about adjusting your footwork to match that fighter so when John does work, it’s just a lot that people is not paying attention to in the application and the wooden dummy
4:10 The wooden dummy does not build bad habits if you know how to use it. thats like saying using a punching bag creates bad habits because it doesnt hit back. 🤦🏾♂ You have to know how to use the training equipment properly. Do you even know ANY wing chun? Or do you just watch videos?
The Ming Dynasty royal army would like a word. The Taiping Rebellion would like a word. The Kuomintang would like a word. Even today Wing Chun is the most widely practiced form of kung fu after Tai chi. The problem is most people don't practice it to a combat readiness level. But this is probably too complicated for you to accept.
True, but people will still defend it and try to get it to work. Almost as bad as the people defending aikido. Just train something that is proven to work and is superior like muay thai, kick boxing, mma etc.
@@redrenegade7724 If it worked more people would be using it. Compare and contrast with the number of karate students. Systems that are functional spread.
Did you ever watch jin Young the China boxer? He had some cool stuff but i never saw him apply it in sparring. I believe his channel became art of pressure fighting or something along those lines.
Make sure to follow Yufei! He’s linked in the description and endcard. 阿飞，这个咏春教练要是有兴趣就联系我。我想采访他！
Cool stuff, deff visible wing chun, but it's never going to look like movie stuff, fighting always looks more or less the same, framing, pressure and clinch entanglement is what "visible wing chun" is
Heck, I always believed that when it comes to style, it's not that they "look different", I mean in some cases it can but it really depends. No rather, Style is developed and defined on the intent and what the system/style is trying to accomplish. In this case, and what I have seen consistently so far, it seems most Wing Chun fighters pressure and manipulate the clinch
after watching the slow mo, i dont think the student really had a problem with hooks. he let that one thru, but he blocked 3 before it. he blocked some after too.
id say this is some of the more solid wing chun ive seen.
Came here to say this
Hello there this is the second time iam seeing you here .@@RedFoxGrappler
wing chun frames can 100% block a hook when accompanied by attacking and constant forward pressure. the only way a wing chun guy stops a mobile mma person is straight away jamming their weapons and pushing them back so far they reach a wall. (in my opinion, pls dont send hate comments)
Without good grappling knowledge that makes you quite easy to tie up though, grappling which very few Wing Chun schools will teach you.
Its the same for Boxing based on infighting, or to a lesser degree Muay Thai clinching, they all let a grappler to close in to work the same way it works in the "pure" version of the respective art.
@@Trash0815 Anti grappling is in the wing chun system, all the wing chun guy needs is experienced with grapplers or training grappling. That’s why wrestlers and grapplers who go into wing chun love it because it lives in grappling space. Wing chun people should know how to hold there structure and not get tied up. If not it’s their fault because the whole system teaches it with emphasis. Edit: wing chun should love clinching as well because that’s where a person can use sensitivity. It obviously just takes experience experimenting and applying there wing chun outside of the school. Not just losing one fight using wing chun against a different martial art and giving up on their wing chun training.
@@Beave98 The Idea that Ip-Man in the 1950s had the slightest idea how to counter modern MMA is beyond ridiculous there is no useful anti grappling in Wing Chun, and some make believe like Kernspechts or Emin Bozepte is at best some second class wrestling they took from their local wrestling, nothing that could deal with the true revolution that happened due to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu did in the 1980ies, thats nothing to be ashamed of, but lets not get back to the mystical all knowing Chinese art trope.
@@Trash0815 of course Chinese martial arts will have anti grappling, there are possibly hundreds of different martial in China and the idea that a art like wing chun wouldn’t have at least basic chin na when popular grappling arts like shou jiao existed at the same time while wing chun was developing is absurd, there are videos on channels such as myvlma and izzo wing chun that talk about this in depth with practical demonstrations please refer to those
wing chun frames can block hooks, but only if theyre done right. you have to be more rigid to do some kung fu styles, despite all the talk they do about fluidity and relaxation. maybe thats why, its compensatory.
Anyway, the arm shields arent meant to move around that much. wing chun people get hooked because they move their frames too often, and then cant keep track of where their arms are, so hooks sneak in.
I think they try to "do" their arm frames when its unnecessary because they want to show off theyre doing wing chun. but mostly the arms should be stable and only move small bits and when necessary.
they also have to be timed with body rotation in all planes, and directional movement. not a lot of wing chun guys are able to get that down. the teacher had it down more but wasnt as active as i think he needed to be. maybe cuz it was a light spar. the student has it down well, but moves arms a bit too much. though maybe he just got too into the sparring. It looks to me that he is trying to have a rhythm to his style though, which im not sure is the best idea for arts like wing chun. the rhythm thing is more of a western idea from my understanding, rather than an eastern idea. they focus on timing and initiative and such, but not so much rhythm traditionally. I could be wrong about that though, i just havent seen much of it in traditional arts. I think it works for some styles better than others, and moreso in combat sports than in self defense.
6:23 thats not a bad habit from the wooden dummy. or chi sao. Chi sao doesnt even teach you to linger you hands out...its a sensitivity drill. SMH... Thats a bad habit from trying to keep the traditional wing chun stance too much instead of keeping a natural hand up fighting stance. Please go learn wing chun before commenting on it.
WingChun looks like normal fighting when actually fighting
Wing chun people need to stop reaching for attacks to block. The more you reach the more you get caught. Other than that the two wing chun guys are good for testing themselves and sgowing some decent fight intelligence. Also good etiquette on both sidesm although i was a little reserved when wing chun dudes would go for throat shots. Gotta be careful and respectful
The reaching is definitely chi sao bad habit. So much of wing chun training imo is just not effective for actual fighting.
宇飛loves ITF and recently turned a kickboxing match into an ITF match (His opponent also did IFT). You can see it in his channel
George foreman probably had the best wing chun guard in boxing 😅 he'd frame out with raised elbows and palm the inside of the bicep to block hooks that would try to get around his hand trapping
It's not Wing Chun it's called the cross guard, it's an very old boxing guard used also by Ken Norton, Archie Moore and Smokin' Joe Frazier
@@MusouKing4816 I was making a joke man, obviously George Foreman didn't do wing chun 😂 but his hand fighting and trapping techniques are kinda like an effective version of wing chun concepts
@@Autonamatonamaton yeah true I never really thought of it like that but his long guard and cross guard are kinda like the effective version of Wing Chun
Wing Chun could learn a lot from long and cross guard boxing styles. Like, long guard uses trapping and sets up strikes with it.
We need to research the different positions and hand positions to make it work. There’s always something we’re not seeing. I feel that for it to really work you gotta go past the elbow to really understand the application or past the shoulders. Use your hand position in Wing chun cause that’s where it’s really effective.
Did you ever watch jin Young the China boxer? He had some cool stuff but i never saw him apply it in sparring. I believe his channel became art of pressure fighting or something along those lines.
1:08 it's not unfair to the MMA guy. It makes it easier for him to block punches. Muay Thai and Boxing blocks work because the gloves are big. They become less effective when the gloves are smaller
I speculate that some of the slaps were meant to be chops to the neck.
I felt it was hard to fully judge the Wing Chun as they didn't go full force. But, seeing as they did attempt eye pokes/gauges it's understandable. I do feel respect to what they did accomplish though. It looks like a good use of training.
I wonder what specific Wing Chun lineage they are. They are using a lot of movements that don't resemble the lineage I trained in.
What’s your lineage?
@@FightCommentary Moy Yat Ving Tsun. I didn't do it very long, but they are using a different stance than we were taught. Just made me curious.
As an active wing chun practitioner, their stances aren't any different from Hong Kong Wing Chun's.
@screamtheguy6425 yeah I definitely didn't phrase my first comment well. I should've said they looked "different" - definitely still recognizably wing chun.
@@reddragoon7981 remember the stance is a blueprint for not needing one,
GM chu shong tin said, never yield backwards in WC - in less your forced to of course
Is this the first video where the commentary is on a video that has a high frame rate?
Wing Chun should incorporate the reverse cross guard of Gene fullmer you can use trapping with the block to create openings
He was defendin takedowns with jum sau and yes, theoretically,aggressive and fast and continuous, it doesn't work unless you go forward
Great video. The first two WC students used traditional techniques, but it's hard to block, parry, or frame if they have no understanding of timing head/foot movement. This is where I disagree about you about training on the wooden dummy. The issue isn't it's use, but how it's used. If a person only uses stationary techniques, then they will have trouble fighting a person that moves. After doing WC first, then boxing... The philly shell allows me to utilize a lot of my WC techniques. Just my thoughts.
I heard that and totally disagree as well.
This person was inexperienced in Wing Chun. A Wing Chun man doesn't keep his centreline open so I don't think he is a wing chun stylist.
If you do that you’re gonna get kicked and teped. Have you ever seen Kevin Lee wing chin master fight mma guys? He knows you can’t use wing chin stance without changing it to match the attacks of mma. And Kevin lee is pretty good
I agree this is a whole lot than not really paying attention even that wouldn’t done because I truly disagree what he said about the wooden dummy giving bad habits. It’s just a lot of application. People is not paying attention too and what most people don’t really pay attention to the footwork changes to technique so it’s all about adjusting your footwork to match that fighter so when John does work, it’s just a lot that people is not paying attention to in the application and the wooden dummy
Yeah that's good sparring play if they wanted to they could add extra moves within those times of brakes or just taking it easy
immediately after you remark that neither fighter is going to the body the wing chun exponent starts throwing a body shot here and there (7:11, 7:29)
4:10 The wooden dummy does not build bad habits if you know how to use it. thats like saying using a punching bag creates bad habits because it doesnt hit back. 🤦🏾♂ You have to know how to use the training equipment properly. Do you even know ANY wing chun? Or do you just watch videos?
Looks more like kick boxing to me. No wing Chun footwork or trapping techniques etc. Much of wing Chun is impossible with gloves on.
nice
Kickboxing works.
Good calling of the fight …
You’re the first comment! How’s everything going?
@@FightCommentary
Just another night in paradise for me …
Wing chun guy also leans forward to much
If it was an actual combat system more people would be using it.
The Ming Dynasty royal army would like a word.
The Taiping Rebellion would like a word.
The Kuomintang would like a word.
Even today Wing Chun is the most widely practiced form of kung fu after Tai chi.
The problem is most people don't practice it to a combat readiness level.
But this is probably too complicated for you to accept.
True, but people will still defend it and try to get it to work. Almost as bad as the people defending aikido. Just train something that is proven to work and is superior like muay thai, kick boxing, mma etc.
@@redrenegade7724 If it worked more people would be using it. Compare and contrast with the number of karate students. Systems that are functional spread.
The CONCEPTS can work and this has been shown several times. So just stop
@@Boomstck well in that case i'd rather learn archery or firearms, far more superior and efficient
😂🙈💩
Wing chun is just never gonna be any good 😂😭
You have never seen a Prime Tony Ferguson, haven't you? - CSO - 🇺🇸🏆🇲🇽
@@raisou9750 tell me one time Tony used wing chun ?
Did you ever watch jin Young the China boxer? He had some cool stuff but i never saw him apply it in sparring. I believe his channel became art of pressure fighting or something along those lines.
Yep. I used to talk to him. He applies wing chun in his BJJ.
@@FightCommentary I touched hands with him once. He felt like a brick wall