How to check the 5v reference circuit for a short to ground (Cadillac)
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- 2006 Cadillac DTS Shorted 5v Reference Circuit
Typically a vehicle will not run with a shorted 5v reference circuit but in the case of this Cadillac, it has 2 separate 5v regulators, so it can still run with one of them shorted.
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
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On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.
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I've been following you for about 3 months.
You are the maestro when it comes to explaining the difficult and make it so simple that anyone can easily follow.
Thank you Sir, keep up the great work
Awesome, thank you!
Danner is the only one you need to follow/learn from. He breaks things down like no one else.
You Absolute right for Caddy about the crank and cam
The 5-volt reference 1 bus provides 5 volts to the following sensors:
The air conditioning (A/C) refrigerant pressure sensor
The manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor
The fuel tank pressure (FTP) sensor
The accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor 2
The exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) position sensor
The camshaft position (CMP) sensor
The 5-volt reference 2 bus provides 5 volts to the following sensors: The APP sensor 1
The throttle position (TP) sensor 1 and 2
The secondary air injection (AIR) Solenoid
The crankshaft position (CKP) sensor
These videos are gems of knowledge. Thanks for putting these out all these years 👊🏻👍🏻
Glad you like them!
You are the man, exact same issue on Buick lucurne with the 4.6
Except mine has no wire loom left on it hardly, deteriorated.
Wow... This has to be one of the most informative, in-depth, educational video I have ever watched. You are doing gods work. WOW, alot of knowledge in the first 2 minutes, New subscriber and hope to view more like this vid. thanks.
Thanks so much Pete R! Keep watching, you'll be hooked! Also, check out my website for more info.
www.scannerdanner.com
What an excellent case study! A very professional and methodical diagnosis. Superb.
Paul you Rock! A friend of mine wife's car was throwing a 5 volt reference 1 code. Followed your video procedure. 1 hour later found the problem. A/C pressure sensor connector was the problem. The cmp sensor APP 1 sensor FTP sensor EOP sensor map sensor all share the same reference. Car in limp mode.. 1 new connector boom car is fixed! He was ready to buy a whole new throttle body. He's glad I talked him into.letting me diagnose the problem.
Awesome! Nice job
your my role model I want to be like you man. your a awesome teacher thank you! for your videos!
He really is the best teacher I've ever listened to. His ability to convey information is amazing wish every teacher was just like him
That's an excellent point, you don't want to accidentally fix the problem without knowing where it was. The scope makes this so much easier, though a power probe singing a ground connection could do the same thing with an auditory signal.
Good job finding the culprit wire. Finding and solving a problem like this gives oneself a warm fuzzy feeling inside
Hi Paul it's a good job they put some kind of protection on the 5v reference so as not to burn the drivers out - Fred uk.
I'm a heavy line tech myself....thank you for your video....so expertly explained sir....
Thank you! And even though this is a car, the 5v ref circuit info directly transfers to your market.
Same issue/symptoms on an 06 Buick Lucerne 4.6. Lots of people will order a new TPS connector (like myself) but I later found an internal break in a yellow/red wire local to this connector and probably never needed to replace it. There was also a visible break in a thick gauge orange wire near the secondary air check valve. Very near the location of your break! Lots of wiring repairs done on these Northstar V8 systems. Tons of people called technicians are afraid to touch it even though this vehicle will throw a 5v reference code right at your eye socket. I had to send mine to the dealer since I didn't have the right skills or tools to tackle this problem. Also, please beware the fuel pump relay in this vehicle. It has been known for years to cause the rear fuse block to catch flame but Crickets from the manufacturer. I check mine all the time. That rear fuse box always runs way too hot.
Your supposed to trim off some of the seat bracket on the fuse box side bcz when someone sits back there it will rub the fuel pump relay causing it to not make good a connection then it just melts 🔥🔥 your also supposed to use a shorter relay there's a service bulletin on this 😉
SCANNERDANNER: YOU ARE BORN BLESSED WITH YOUR THOUGHTS OF IMPLANTING YOUR APPROACH TO DO A GREAT JOB DAY IN AND DAY OUT, THANKS
You are a best teacher MAY GOD BLESS US AND YOUR FAMILY.
AMEN
informative, ill try to apply to my 07 dts, Thanks for a glimmer of hope.
If you get stuck and need additional help, post to my forum www.scannerdanner.com, it is free to join. Thanks!
Great place to run a harness! Great Diagnostics! N.P.N. No Parts Needed......Like Ivan.
Thankyou Paul. Another great video, hopefully your premium channel will be available in all countrys soon! Cheers Edyn.
hope so too my friend
Great diagnosics . And very profesional tips .
The Northstar actually uses two crank sensors 27° apart. It's a fast start system.
2000 to 2005 uses 2 and 2006 to 2011 uses only 1.
Amazing job Paul
another quality training video thak you Paul.
Speaking of limp mode.. you might want to take and run with this idea.. during accidents people's engines quite often stopped running.. secondary electric override with motor via transfer case to drive shafts switchable. To allow vehicle to limp off the road out of freeway traffic for example. Possibly the car's battery would be enough for this power. Or some kind of inverter could be used. Or a second battery continually charged but not used for this emergency contingency purpose.. possibly this device conversion can be retrofitted on new vehicles.. and save lives..
Love the tutorial and the step by step the notes and the trick on visuals ..thank you ..
I just love these case studies... I watched the Toyota Echo one today again. I'm now haunted by the ohm meter on that bad computer ground.. lol
for sure man, that ohmmeter will get you in a lot of trouble, but sometimes it is the tool to use. just have to get more comfortable with ground to ground voltage drop tests.
I had one of these about 5 years ago that shorted in the exact same spot. Mine was an injector control circuit though so it was pretty scary how much raw fuel was dumping out of the exhaust.
Where exactly was yours? I have a misfire only on cold engine
Awesome scannerdanner!
Sir, you are the king!
This video is awesome, although, I low-key wished he had unplugged all the sensors though because the car I'm trying to fix is not as lucky as this one where the problem was easy to find. Unplugging the sensors would have helped me further understand the repair process. Anyways I'm sure you have done this in other videos on your channel that I can look at that will do it. I'll keep searching.. Thanks
Thanks for another video they teach us so much you dont know
I have an Altima that keeps blowing the fuse for the tail lights.
Thank you for the videos
Man you are the master love you
I can field at least part of the question as to why this car ran without a crank or cam sensor signal. The answer is the PCM on newer GM products can start and run, and run good too mind you, without a crank sensor signal by monitoring the cam sensor signal and the MAF signal together as a default. I found that out on an 07 Tahoe. While I can't say for sure, what I suspect is the reason the car still ran without either the crank or cam signal is that without a cam signal, the PCM gang-fires the injectors as a default. I believe in this particular case, the PCM tried to use both of the above mentioned defaults at the same time. Without any sort of way to accurately measure RPM, the PCM is able to make the car run, but it'll run like crap, as evidenced in this video.
Great video you explain everything perfect
AlexanderGaming Vid
On another note, I'm actually kinda surprised that an 06 Cadillac DTS has a bad motor mount. I worked in a Cadillac dealership for 6 year. 05 and older Deville's and DTS's were notorious for breaking motor mounts, but I thought GM solved the motor mount breakage problem in 06 when they put the huge dog-bone on the passenger side of the engine compartment.
Thanks for a well explained & show video!
You are my official lunch break program...lol.
You love this stuff like I do..
Nice video Paul.
Good presentation. Thanks for mentioning the worn engine mounts and the importance of visual inspection.
Someone may have said this before as this is a 9yo video, but, you are correct that CMP sensor is on 5vref1 and that is just a mistake in that schematic. Just checked in global connect. You're correct that vehicle should not be running if, indeed, the cam sensor was on 5vref2.
Good one, thanks again!
Thx u thx u what if if u dont have all the fancy tools u have how do I find it with a volt meter and where do I hook up to do the test
no different than I showed in this video. Don't let me scope intimidate you, it is just a glorified voltmeter
Professional fix!
A very good video.
Thank you very much. That's help me a lot. Your thinking is methodique
You’re the bomb bro keep up the good work
Great videos as always! Love the content!
My 2006 dts is running the exact same way
great work
Had damaged ,ground, cam position sensor harness , rubbing on sharp " right " head , near sensor .1/4 in. conduit was " trash", leaving 3 wires to sharp head damage .The repair was found and repaired , before any " codes " ! Lesson learned , KEEP WIRING NEAT !
You're channel is good as Netflix. It keeps me entertained. lol
U sir are a beast
Good job -
I have a Jaguar S type that’s doing the exact same thing and the relay that powers the throttle body system is not getting any ground ?
you the man ,ace video again ,john in uk
Keep up the good work
Probably a dumb question, but if you use a multimeter instead of a scope, does seeing the fluctuations in voltage still apply? Do I specifically need a scope to chase 5 V ref codes? I only have a multimeter. No one in my shop uses a scope at my GM dealer, that I know of.
Hey Paul, can I look for a shorted ref by hooking a test light to B+ and touching every sensor harness on the 5v circuit?
Man I love this videos 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you Mario!
great video
I'm working on a 10 impala 3.9 interceptor p0641 when I check the 5v ref pid it switches from ok to fault then back to ok. I had like 7v at the map at some point fuel level sensor volts 0 on scanner but gauge works
pulling my hair out on this one
Scanner I never see other guys on you tube use this 5v reference. I'm sure some must , but I've never seen it and you certainly explain it in a way that makes it fairly easy to understand and I'm not a "car" guy but I do love learning. Have you seen any guys online that use it?
only ones I've seen use it have learned it from me :-)
@@ScannerDanner I believe it
Happy thanksgiving dude
Your work is great, and your tips are very important for us. thanks a lot and blessing.
I have checked a nissan 6-cil 3,0. the spark is there, gasoline too, but there is not pulse on the injectors. can you help me, please. the car`s computer is ok, well a technician told me that.
tahnk you.
Israel at the moment I'm trying to answer questions from the top of my head and when it comes to research (which I would have to do in this case), I can't do that right now as I am in the middle of a very big project. (moving ScannerDanner Premium to my website). Please post this to my forum on my website, we can help you there. scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here.html
thank you so much, sorry for my English writing
So I’m having issues with my Buick I have a decent scan tool and is like data the only thing red is a 5v reference and it’s high 5.01v and max is 5v what could it be? I took it to a shop and they said it was a Ecm issue should I got a new one still not it
Dan, love your channel. Learned so much already. Just wanted to make a small note that your ScannerDanner.com logo does block a good amount of schematic info. when watching video. Not sure if its moveable. thanks.
It's not but I will try to be more careful with it in the future. Thanks
Paul, could you have back probed the 5v reference wires on the crank and cam shaft to determine if they were feed individually?
Good catch!
The two reference voltages provide redundancy for the pedal position sensor signal. Since both voltages are already there by necessity, the other sensors are split between them.
derek i had this 5v reference code for over 2 yea nowr i pay on the car so i have no other option but to keep it any ways ..car threw a code for 5 volt reference it was the throttle body so i order a new one and installed it.. i worked at a chevy dealer so my buddy bought over the tech2 to relearn the tps..drove the car fine for the whole day after that no problem at all next day started up fine went about a half a mile and boom same thing again with the same code this time i took to the dealership since i no longer now whats wrong with my car,,the head meach at the shop told mi it needs a new throttle so i order a new one agian ..pretty much got warranty on it they send mi a new one put it on drove it fine for 2 days and boom same code again..if u can please give mi an adive on to were to start thanl you so much
You are good iam going buy your book
Thank you so much!
I have a basket case at the moment, P0697 which is 5v ref circuit symptom 00. The difference here is when I look at scan data, the 5v ref is fine. then I back probe the sensors on that circuit. They all have 5v. Service data says that if the sensors all have a 5v ref, then replace the computer module. But just like you say....im not 1000 dollars confident about replacing it. The only interesting thing is the APP 1 at 100% is 3.61v looking at data pids, and when i back probe the signal wire at the ECM I get 4.18v. I am thinking ref 3 is shorted to ground internally but its intermittent. IE when it gets hot.
Don't replace the ECM! You have an intermittent issue and you need to recreate it. Most likely you have a harness rubbed through and is shorting out your ref circuit
Like how the scope showed a small glitch in voltage when you where in and around the problem. didn't realize how nice scopes are most of the times! Great video! P.S. does your premium channel have video not ava. on you tube? if so Im subscribing !
If not Im going to subscribe any way to help you and myself learn more!
Of course. I have over 50 videos up right now and none of them are available here. Planning a live event soon too, which should be fun. Thank you!
GOLD!
Thanks for the encouragement my new friend
@@ScannerDanner No. Thank you for all the information. The best teacher.
Can I figure out the problem before the mechanic does. In my head?
Nice work !!
Great job.
I did a hard ECU reset (to try to set u p for a CKP relearn, etc) by touching the battery cables together for a few mins. I also installed a new CKP sensor: which turned out to be BAD! Sitting for a 30min key relearn there was a crazy amount of clicking, fuel gauge going c r a z y , selonoids, ign coil, etc - which I thought might be normal - as the ECU was dialing in settings...............turns out the NEW ckp sensor was bad (i believe shorted internally). Once I swapped the older, but good, CKP sensor back in~ all the craziness stopped. Im gearing up for a 30 min key relearn now. Fingers crossed! Turns out its a bad idea to go w a $13 ckp sensor vs the AC DELCO unit.
You are great.. thank you
Thank you!
Great job, thank.
Great video
MISTER DANNER I HAVE A BIG PROBLEM , I AM IN NEED OF KNOWING ON THIS SEEM TRUCK YOU WHERE WORKING ON (AT THIS VIDEO) (THE ONE I AM WORKING ON IS A FOUR POINT TREE LITER ) WITH THE CRANK SHAFT SENSOR UNPLUGGED WOULD I SEE FIVE VOLTS ON MY REFERENCE SIGNAL WIRE AT THE CRACK SHAFT SENSOR WITH THE KEY IN THE RUN POSITION . I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THIS SYSTEM OF GM , I REMEMBER ON SOME OF THE OLDER GM'S THERE WAS A VOLTAGE ON THE SIGNAL WIRE IF THAT'S CORRECT . I WOULD LIKE TO TEST TO SEE IF THE PCM CAN SEE THE SIGNAL ON THE AUTEL SCANNER WHEN I GROUND IT SO POSSIBLY IF I DON'T SEE THE FIVE VOLTS THIS WOULD MAKE IT A PULL DOWN CIRCUIT I JUST DON'T KNOW BUT I THOUGHT WHEN I WAS AT THE VEHICLE LAST WITH THE SENSOR UNPLUGGED I DID NOT SEE A FIVE VOLT REFERENCE SIGNAL . I HAVE BOUGHT YOUR ONLINE BOOK MANY YEARS AGO THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO MAKE THIS GREAT CONTENT THERE IS A NEED FOR YOUR PAID CLASSES AND I WILL LOOK INTO THAT FOR ME AND MY BOTHER THANKS AGAIN AND ALL THE BEST !
What is that black box with wires coming out each end connected to the passenger side strut assembly next to coolant tank underneath the hood I ask because mines seem they've been cut ,no problems that I can tell car runs fine I just want to know what it may be
Thank you
I have touareg 2009 2.5l but the code is P0642, is that the same withe P0641?
Mr. DannerI have a question for you. If I was to buy your book, do you think I could learn a lot about using a scanner for diagnostics?I have been working on cars for years and I am a graduate of Vale-Tech in Blairsville, PA. in 1991. Back then we didn't learn about modern diagnostics. I want to further my education in this area and wanted to know from you personally if your book would be helpful for me, or is it more for someone who already knows about diagnostics with a scanner?
Tom, there is no question my material will help you! Buy the eBook first and make sure the content is what you're looking for. If you like it and want to exchange it for a paper version we can do that. If you want a refund, I can do that too.
A second method to view my material is to take advantage of the 14 day free trial offered on ScannerDanner Premium. You'll be able to watch as I teach through my book. This will allow you to see the additional content available for premium members and then of course see the content of the book.
Thanks so much! I look forward to hearing from you.
What wires you checking on the reference circuit? On your scanner hooked to?
You have great wiring diagrams via Mitchell over there in the US, shame the UK hasn't got such decent reference material for non main dealer techs (AFAIK)
P.S. enjoying your ebook P.D.!
Thanks Matthew
I'm having a problem with reduced power and no throttle response on my 2000 Camaro 3.8 I probe the TPS and I'm only getting 3.5 volts I think please help any direction would help thanks
Hey paul, wish i had super talented electricians like you in my country.. I knew nothing about electronics and I hated it until I found your channel. Learnt alot from your videos. I do have a question though. Is it possible to have a 5v voltage on a reference wire and a short to ground on the same wire?
that sounds stupid lol.. if a 5v ref is shorted, it will by all means show 0 volts..?
A partial short
Thanks, you got a lot of enthusiasm to teach; I like that. I am DIY and trying to understand to test my 99' Suburban with a crank won't start. I don't have those high speed tool but I got a multimeter. Can I still do this? When you said unplug the wire on the circuit, do you mean, the one you are checking or all unplugged. And then check one by one? I will buy the book but first I got to learn this portion somehow.
Let's move this to my forum. It is free to join www.scannerdanner.com
I need more info on what you're testing. The 5v ref circuit doesn't require a scope to test it. Your digital multimeter will be good enough. Thanks! Hope to see you there
What color is that wire? It's hard to tell.
Awesome Diag SD
Im tackling this same issue now, same exact car and motor. And its throwing me for a loop. My ref 1 5v is intermittently getting pulled to ground, its not stedy ground. By the time it acts up and i start unplugging things on the 5v ref it stops acting up and i cannot make a clear diagnosis.
It's probably a harness issue. Look for your contact points!
We just had one of our cabs come in with Engine Power Reduced, a 08 Impala 3.5L. It had P0641 and P2119. Kinda stumped though because unlike the problem in this video the code could be a short to voltage or short to ground (if I interpret Alldata info right), I pulled up both ref pids on the scanner and they both show the 5 volts they should..wiggled harnesses etc and didn't see any blip.
How did you resolve this one
What tool are you using? And is this possible with just a voltmeter?
Sure beats the hell out of a flow chart
hi ScannerDanner i have a 2001 cadillac deville and i have a no start situation, car cranks but does not start i replace an EGR valve. air injector pump, air injector solenoid, and the mass air flow because i was getting codes P0102. P0410, and P0442 now the car will not start i check to see if i was getting gas i am but when i check the injector i have ground to power but no pulse action on the other lead. and suggestions.
How do you fix the wire or did you get another wiring harness
Cut the damage parts out and install a new section of wire using adhesive lines heat shrink and solder or adhesive lined, heat shrink butt connectors
PROCESS, Process, Process, I have a better understanding of the process that you employ in undertaking these challenges, I am also recognizing the times and places that I would have probably "jumped of the cliff" and committed a diagnostic malfunction. Great presentation.
You deserve wayyyyu more subs!
Tell people brother! Was this your issue?
ScannerDanner I def will tell more people. After i take my Electrical ASE i am deff going to look into your class/book you offer. I just wanna become a bad ass diag tech!
I assume the motor mounts were fixed as well?