Apart from Firedrakes (Salamanders-specific Cataphractii) with the out-of-the-box thunder hammer/stormshield loadout, I really haven't dabbled much with terminators, though from what I've seen on the table you really do need to invest in a delivery mechanism of some kind to get your points out of them, even if it's just making them ridiculously durable enough to shrug off heavy ordnance as they slowly but inevitably march up the board like heavily armoured slasher villains. Really, the only issue with going with the stormshield is that you must give up the combi-bolter. As for the special/heavy weapons, they're indeed hit or miss, and as was stated often on a legion-by-legion basis. Word Bearers, Thousand Sons, and Dark Angels alike all can make considerable use out of their legion-specific plasma weapons (Word Bearers especially for Pinning), and while Reaper Autocannons are typically better in bulk than as a 1-in-5 (interestingly, you can kit out an entire squad of Varagyr termies with Reaper ACs) they can give termies a bit of ranged AT capability as they close in for the kill, especially for Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors. Heavy Flamers on the other hand have more of a use as a defensive weapon, especially for Salamanders, if not helped by the fact that you need to get in so close to use it that you're likely going to get into melee anyway. Insofar as melee is concerned, you generally want ablative bodies if you take Unwieldy weapons in the squad, again apart from instances where you've made the termies ridiculously tough to kill.
I play SoH. I run my tartaros with the carosan power tabars. Free upgrade for any model with a power weapon. They swing at initiative, +1 S, AP3, two handed, and breach on a 4+. I run a chaplain with them and they can shred any marines and go toe to toe with most other termies. Stack that with the merciless fighter rule where they enemy is -1 strength first round of combat (which also modifies insta death for P-fists and T-hammers)
tartaros have an extra pip in movement as well! definitely more a fan of tartaros just for being able to sweep, especially since most unique ICs aren’t in cataphractii armour
Sons of Horus are also super nice with the -1 to strength! Round 1 vs other termies they wont get instant deathd so will take half damage in a way. Makes them brutal in the terminator duel
My best success has been power fists, or power fists with a few pairs of LC. Power weapons are cheap, and hit at init, but just seem to bounce off of other termies or vehicles or dreads. Power fists are decent against everything in the game, and a few lightening Claw pairs can spread enough infantry to keep your terminators from being locked up in combat long term. I like plasma blasters not because they are amazing, but because they are OK, and look really cool. I just use the combibolter otherwise.
I like purpose-built Terminator squads as opposed to "all comers" squads that aren't really good at anything. Cataphractii: Thunder Hammers and combi-bolters. These are Terminator-smashers. Point them at another Terminator unit and go bash. I cannot stress enough how good Brutal on the Thunder Hammers is. Instead of the enemy terminator having to make 1 invul save, they have to make 2 invul saves and make them both or go squish. All for a minimal 5 point upcharge over the fist. I don't know why you would not take Thunder Hammers on Cats. Sure, you go last, but your 4+ invul save should keep enough of you alive to do some serious damage to your enemy. Indomitus: Same as Cataphractii, but with Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer. These guys are silly good. They can sweep (don't let someone tell you that can't because they are Heavy) and they are Troops, so no real limit on how many squads you can take. If you take Pride of the Legion, they lose Support Squad and gain Line. You can create some silly broken lists by spamming these. Tartaros: I view these as "Heavy Tacticals" or "Heavy Assault Troops." Their 5+ invul save makes it more beneficial for them to strike first. So I kit them out with a pair of lightning claws and point them at power armor. Their ideal target is a 20-man unit of tacticals. They will absolutely shred. I also put a Thunder Hammer for every 5, just to deal with heavy stuff.
You don't find the low weapon skill to be a drawback tho? I'd be worried decking them out in Hammers because they're gonna have a hard time against WS5 terminators and Centurions
@@Zilegil WS4 s a handicap, for sure. But S8, AP2 and Brutal 2 is great against other legion Terminators. They must make not one, but two invulnerable saves or they die.
Just wanted to say I really appreciate this video- starting to get into HH but hobby time is really limited, so picking up some best practices before building is greatly appreciated.
I have found running a ten man cata squad with 5x lighting claws and a mis of chain fists, powerfist, t hammers. And 5 combi minors flamers or noob tubes. The five lighting claws strike at initiative and will shred armour 3 and do some damage to armour 2. And they all act as sappers in the even i fight a dreadnought. 4 or 5 lighting claws termies take the punches and then all the low Initiative heavy hitters survive long enough to tear down the dreads. The flamers is excelent crown control. Great for 20 man tac sqauds of just hordes in general, the grenade launchers shear number of attacks garauntees some kind of pinning test. Which makes the charge all the easier if it gets off. I have slaughtered primarchs with this unit. And done in red butchers with some ease. granted i play blood angels.
I like putting a Warpfire blaster in the unit. If your opponent is out of shooting reactions, pop out a few cheeky shots that might pin. Means they might not get to Overwatch
Are the plasma blasters really that worthless? Was planning to run ten Catas, two of them with the plasmas together with ten lightning claw tartaros and five knights cenobium for my DA.
I mean .... they miss 1/3rd of the time, they are only AP 2 50% of the time and they wont kill a termy outright since they have 2 wounds. If they were 5 points sure throw um on there, for 15, I dont think that they are worht it. You are not going to shoot every turn with them you might not shoot them at all. They look bad ass and they are not worthless like the other options , I say go for it if you like them. I think they are "cool" but they are not a great choice anymore.
Pretty much the same as any other legion, I think there are some ways that you can get Inflitrate wtih your Legion termies though with the Alphas. It invovles characters thoguh. When it works and you build around it thought, thats pretty cool. Word Bearers, I would guess your points would be better spend on Gal'Vorback but I mean, if you like Termies then go for it, they are not bad at all.
By technicality, any legion can use Cataphractii reasonably well on the tabletop. It's just a question of whether you can equip them to take advantage of their Legion traits or wargear. Word Bearers cataphractii aren't exceptionally noteworthy on their own, but they do have access to Pinning via Warpfire Blaster, and when adequately supported (Biomancer Librarian typically does a good job of this) can be more difficult to shift than they first appear. Alpha Legion on the other hand don't really synergize with cataphractii all that much apart from being discount Lerneans (who are also in Cataphractii). Doesn't stop you from getting in your opponent's face with a hammer reasonably well, but their Legion rules lean more into shooting.
How do you run your terminators?
Apart from Firedrakes (Salamanders-specific Cataphractii) with the out-of-the-box thunder hammer/stormshield loadout, I really haven't dabbled much with terminators, though from what I've seen on the table you really do need to invest in a delivery mechanism of some kind to get your points out of them, even if it's just making them ridiculously durable enough to shrug off heavy ordnance as they slowly but inevitably march up the board like heavily armoured slasher villains.
Really, the only issue with going with the stormshield is that you must give up the combi-bolter.
As for the special/heavy weapons, they're indeed hit or miss, and as was stated often on a legion-by-legion basis. Word Bearers, Thousand Sons, and Dark Angels alike all can make considerable use out of their legion-specific plasma weapons (Word Bearers especially for Pinning), and while Reaper Autocannons are typically better in bulk than as a 1-in-5 (interestingly, you can kit out an entire squad of Varagyr termies with Reaper ACs) they can give termies a bit of ranged AT capability as they close in for the kill, especially for Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors. Heavy Flamers on the other hand have more of a use as a defensive weapon, especially for Salamanders, if not helped by the fact that you need to get in so close to use it that you're likely going to get into melee anyway.
Insofar as melee is concerned, you generally want ablative bodies if you take Unwieldy weapons in the squad, again apart from instances where you've made the termies ridiculously tough to kill.
I play SoH. I run my tartaros with the carosan power tabars. Free upgrade for any model with a power weapon. They swing at initiative, +1 S, AP3, two handed, and breach on a 4+. I run a chaplain with them and they can shred any marines and go toe to toe with most other termies. Stack that with the merciless fighter rule where they enemy is -1 strength first round of combat (which also modifies insta death for P-fists and T-hammers)
Gentleman, you have the best heresy channel on UA-cam.
tartaros have an extra pip in movement as well! definitely more a fan of tartaros just for being able to sweep, especially since most unique ICs aren’t in cataphractii armour
Good point, im not sure we brought that up as well, just that it can run.
Sons of Horus are also super nice with the -1 to strength! Round 1 vs other termies they wont get instant deathd so will take half damage in a way. Makes them brutal in the terminator duel
My best success has been power fists, or power fists with a few pairs of LC. Power weapons are cheap, and hit at init, but just seem to bounce off of other termies or vehicles or dreads. Power fists are decent against everything in the game, and a few lightening Claw pairs can spread enough infantry to keep your terminators from being locked up in combat long term.
I like plasma blasters not because they are amazing, but because they are OK, and look really cool. I just use the combibolter otherwise.
I like purpose-built Terminator squads as opposed to "all comers" squads that aren't really good at anything.
Cataphractii: Thunder Hammers and combi-bolters. These are Terminator-smashers. Point them at another Terminator unit and go bash. I cannot stress enough how good Brutal on the Thunder Hammers is. Instead of the enemy terminator having to make 1 invul save, they have to make 2 invul saves and make them both or go squish. All for a minimal 5 point upcharge over the fist. I don't know why you would not take Thunder Hammers on Cats. Sure, you go last, but your 4+ invul save should keep enough of you alive to do some serious damage to your enemy.
Indomitus: Same as Cataphractii, but with Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer. These guys are silly good. They can sweep (don't let someone tell you that can't because they are Heavy) and they are Troops, so no real limit on how many squads you can take. If you take Pride of the Legion, they lose Support Squad and gain Line. You can create some silly broken lists by spamming these.
Tartaros: I view these as "Heavy Tacticals" or "Heavy Assault Troops." Their 5+ invul save makes it more beneficial for them to strike first. So I kit them out with a pair of lightning claws and point them at power armor. Their ideal target is a 20-man unit of tacticals. They will absolutely shred. I also put a Thunder Hammer for every 5, just to deal with heavy stuff.
You don't find the low weapon skill to be a drawback tho? I'd be worried decking them out in Hammers because they're gonna have a hard time against WS5 terminators and Centurions
@@Zilegil WS4 s a handicap, for sure. But S8, AP2 and Brutal 2 is great against other legion Terminators. They must make not one, but two invulnerable saves or they die.
Just wanted to say I really appreciate this video- starting to get into HH but hobby time is really limited, so picking up some best practices before building is greatly appreciated.
Let us know how it goes ! Always stoked to have another heresy player.
I have found running a ten man cata squad with 5x lighting claws and a mis of chain fists, powerfist, t hammers. And 5 combi minors flamers or noob tubes. The five lighting claws strike at initiative and will shred armour 3 and do some damage to armour 2. And they all act as sappers in the even i fight a dreadnought. 4 or 5 lighting claws termies take the punches and then all the low Initiative heavy hitters survive long enough to tear down the dreads. The flamers is excelent crown control. Great for 20 man tac sqauds of just hordes in general, the grenade launchers shear number of attacks garauntees some kind of pinning test. Which makes the charge all the easier if it gets off. I have slaughtered primarchs with this unit. And done in red butchers with some ease. granted i play blood angels.
I like putting a Warpfire blaster in the unit. If your opponent is out of shooting reactions, pop out a few cheeky shots that might pin. Means they might not get to Overwatch
Great, thank you!
Alpha Legion are best terminators… if you know, you know…
Interesting Vid... thanks
Plasma blasters for the win
noob question here, why do dual lightning claws give +2 attacks? I thought they gave just +1, but they refer otherwise
It's a special rule written in the weapons profiles section of the liber astartes. Having 2 LC grants +2 attacks instead of +1
I’ve found ws4 termies to be singularly useless outside of being line in PotL
Are the plasma blasters really that worthless? Was planning to run ten Catas, two of them with the plasmas together with ten lightning claw tartaros and five knights cenobium for my DA.
I mean .... they miss 1/3rd of the time, they are only AP 2 50% of the time and they wont kill a termy outright since they have 2 wounds. If they were 5 points sure throw um on there, for 15, I dont think that they are worht it. You are not going to shoot every turn with them you might not shoot them at all.
They look bad ass and they are not worthless like the other options , I say go for it if you like them. I think they are "cool" but they are not a great choice anymore.
Oh and they still get hot ....
For me they do ok, personally. They will usually make their points back.
@@meatlaserEh... Gets Hot isn't much of a problem for termies in general as it's resolved at AP4 unlike last edition.
Is there any use for cataphractii terminators for Word Bearers and Alpha legion?
Pretty much the same as any other legion, I think there are some ways that you can get Inflitrate wtih your Legion termies though with the Alphas. It invovles characters thoguh. When it works and you build around it thought, thats pretty cool.
Word Bearers, I would guess your points would be better spend on Gal'Vorback but I mean, if you like Termies then go for it, they are not bad at all.
By technicality, any legion can use Cataphractii reasonably well on the tabletop. It's just a question of whether you can equip them to take advantage of their Legion traits or wargear.
Word Bearers cataphractii aren't exceptionally noteworthy on their own, but they do have access to Pinning via Warpfire Blaster, and when adequately supported (Biomancer Librarian typically does a good job of this) can be more difficult to shift than they first appear.
Alpha Legion on the other hand don't really synergize with cataphractii all that much apart from being discount Lerneans (who are also in Cataphractii). Doesn't stop you from getting in your opponent's face with a hammer reasonably well, but their Legion rules lean more into shooting.