Can we all agree that Nathan is by far the best and most importantly, the one with the most real down to earth, practical as well as useful reviews and perspective of anyone out there? His reviews make you feel almost as if you "know" the bike already, and what to, and not to expect. Always top of his game and yet so humble about it! Gotta love and appreciate this guy.
Nathan has become my go to for bike reviews….no messing, no being politically correct to protect manufacturer relationships…..just honest, clear and real world. Love it.
That is quite an endorsement from a person who knows what he’s talking about, and has put his money where his mouth is! Glad it’s gone well for you, Nathan. Of course, I’m impressed that there is a Serow 225 in the mix! Top marks to the rider of that bike. Very light, but low powered. Ride safe! Les
@@1990-t1j I’m sure. I have a ‘personal import from Japan’ XT225, (1992) and love it to bits. I didn’t import it. I think it might have been used on LDTs by the first British owner. My other bike is an Innova (ANF 125) somewhat modified. Les
@@1990-t1j Nick, I agree, the gearchange doesn’t suit me, so I’ve changed it round so it’s down for down, up for up, and I ignore the ‘cyclic’ neutral.
Great video, and an excellent point that the Chinese seem to be listening to the consumer, rather than doing what most everyone else does and designing a bike then pushing it on everyone. I’m a shorter rider (28” inseam) of average skill, and I’ve often been puzzled by manufacturers who introduce an entry level or mid-level bike with a seat height of 35-37 inches. I understand the need for ground clearance, but for me at least, those taller bikes are a no go. Anyway, thanks for the video.
Thanks Nathan, great review as ever. Placed my order this week for a CFMotor 450MT, now the long wait, as you say, a manufacturer who has listened and delivered. Safe trip back.
Looks like a great trip. I wonder if with the success of the 450, CF will provide a 'hot' version with the upgrades you mentioned? They've listened so far. I think the best point you made was that everyone had a great trip whatever they rode. That's important, use whatever you ride. Get out and travel. It creates an appetite that you'll never satisfy. Ride safe 👍
Deposit on 450MT with North West Powersport Skelmersdale paid yesterday. They have access to one for a test rid. Ian, the boss, is knowledgeable, easy going, professional. Bike due February. Can't wait!
Had mine for a week now and I am loving it - coming down from a large capacity adventure to something of this size was a bit worrying but I am glad I have made the change
@@drd3816 I'm a 120kg rider and it came factory far too hard, backed off all the compression and rebound at least 3-4 clicks, and added some preload and so far so good. Not tried it on any tough stuff at speed yet
Awesome , no-nonsense review, and some amazing views. I had no clue (I am not a biker yet) that there are these kinds of trails in Alps. That is something I will be very much loking forward to a little bit down the road.
I have one Nathan...agree what you saying about the suspension..feel at slower riding it will beat you up abit ...I've put 15t front sproket on .. think personally a improvement ..only gripe I have is the service intervals 3.100 miles to keep warranty...otherwise I can't fault the bike ...Great chat ..keep um coming..stay safe..
Awesome hearing your thoughts on the CFMoto 450 MT.... a real shame my local dealership is closing, so no idea where I'd be able to get one serviced, or even buy one from currently. Hopefully the main manufacturers will take note and build us a bike we want too!
Loved that apraisal - and you are right, the big mainstream manufacturers just seem to want to make bigger, heavier more complicated bikes when the CF450 proves that unicorns can exist.
Excellent review. Great piece to camera (apparently unscripted !). The tours look incredible. Thanks Nathan! Keep up the good work. Meantime I’ll be ordering my Ibex 450 providing you haven’t done such a good job there’s none left to buy!
Legendary review Nathan its great to head that you are finding something that you are really enjoying that’s totally the main thing :) that bike that makes you look look n look again n think of the adventures and places itl lead you when you have those moments you can’t ride an then when those dreams become reality the best feeling ever. :) brilliant review an thanks for sharing might wind up bumping into you down in Devon just got back from a week of house hunting in Somerset after we lost a house we had an offer on in west Devon total pain things always have a funny way of working out. Happy travels to all on the trip.
Unbiased review. Thank you Nathan for this video. Some “famous” channel discredit this bike or Chinese brand in general without even riding one. I bought one because of your channel and glad i made that decision. Really happy with my Chinese brand off road bike 😂 Cheers!
If it's the channel I'm thinking of they didn't seem to stick to principle and gladly accepted a free overseas jolly from another fledgling (developing world) brand.
So great to see a bike that's so common sense. Why would a manufacturer hide ABS options somewhere in on screen settings? Why would they spec absolute bottom-tier suspension but charge top -shelf price? Why not just make the bike everyone wants? Seems like CFMoto has just about nailed it, and when you see a new DR650 going for almost as much, and a CRF going for even more, doesn't even really seem to be a competition. Would love to see Yamaha and Suzuki put something out to go against this, the Himalayan 450, and the CB500x.
Brilliant Nathan & fantastic efforts by all. On your return to Blighty, i'd love to see you do a back to back review of the MT450 v Voge525dsx, putting both through their paces as adventure bikes. Both are hot property & sold out virtually everywhere...though I'd like to know which one to pre-order at my local dealer...& you're the person I'd trust to do this back to back testing.
To be honest there's no contest. The Voge is a great copy of a 500x and is a really good road tourer/commuter, but the scope for the CF Moto is much broader and it's just a more charismatic and inspiring machine. But I wish it had the voge's extra grunt!
@@nathanthepostman Thanks for your reply. So the MT450 equally capable as the 525 at what it excells in, plus a much better off roader? If a 50/50 split of road & offload is needed, the MT450. If 75% road 25% offload the 525?
Good to see this bike is doing well. As an owner of a T7 and a more experienced/aggressive rider I feel like it is perfect for me minus how heavy it is. If it was 400lbs it would be the unicorn. It's pretty damned close as is though. If I was newer or less aggressive I'd definitely be going for the 450mt, and I suspect many experienced riders will enjoy it . Here's for hoping China becomes the new Japan since Japanese companies don't seem to be interested in giving us what we want.
From charring with a dealer when I ordered one this week, he advised it's unlikely that demos will be available while there are people waiting for bikes. Mine will be next year perhaps as late as June as the wait list is quite long.
Nathan, enjoying your channel very much. May I say a little about the perceived “unicorn” CF moto MT450. I think this bike looks great, but I and many others have been riding a 55hp bike from the late 80’s that also weighs 175kg dry, has twin cylinders, 21” front and is renowned for being reliable and rugged. Mine has served me well for decades; it has reccied trails for my 4x4 tour business and crossed countries loaded and 2up; many have been used to travel the World. Bring the MT450 on as another so called ADV bike, but tbh I’m not seeing a “new unicorn bike”, as 175kg dry, 600, 55 hp, 21 road/trail bike arrived the late 80’s. Atb, ride far and safe.
Thanks Pyrenean. I sort of appreciate the sentiment but you can only compare new bikes with new bikes. Comparing them to 40 year old bikes from a different era is kinda pointless because you can't buy them anymore. So my reviews of the CF Moto or any bike are in the context of the new bike market. Certainly there's been similar and arguably better bikes before it, but it's in the context of the 2024 market and 2024 prices that I view the CF moto.
Yamaha Serow XT225 best bike there! It is light, powerful, beautiful and great for trails! I had two, and I could easily have another 3rd. I really like your channel Nathan, but unfortunately I dont want to support chinese bikes, chinese market for obvious reasons (political mainly). Take it easy ;)
Love seeing an old g reg yamaha still out there doing adventures. Proves you don’t need a monster gs1300 to have adventure. Great review and not in market for a new bike but enjoy these
Great review for a great bike. Just got back from a bit of TET in northern France on mine. I couldn't venture too far on the muddy sections being by myself and of limited skill, but overall it is an easy bike to ride and really enjoyable on road and trail. Could have done with the 15 tooth sprocket for 300 miles of motorway home today but it is so smooth that I and the bike seemed to tolerate hours at 7000rpm quite well. Anyone on the fence should just put their deposit down.
Good honest review….have you ridden the Tuareg 660? Be interesting to get your opinion as you often compare to Ténéré…I think the Tuareg is great and available new for £9k.
Very good interesting review of the cf Moto 450 we know if it was crap you would certainly tell us in your review! That’s what I like in your videos you say it as it is every time and you know what you’re talking about!
So great to see the footage from Col de l'Iseran and the off road stuff I'll never have the skills for, really nicely shot. It still saddens me that the Japanese effectively abandoned the 'dual sport' market especially after such long serving classics like the KLR and DR650, I wonder if they've an eye on the CFMoto sales figures, I'd be surprised if they didn't.
1:06 What scenery. It sounds like a good bike. Certainly looks good. I like the sound of the low-slung weight. 200 kg is still a lot for a 450cc bike to haul, though. Nick
If you want no bullshit straight honest views, Nathan is the man without doubt the best motorcycle journalist in the uk. He could make a tidy income as a manufacturer consultant without doubt.
Thanks for the great review. Great to see a Chinese company now leading the way rather than following. Also great to recognise some of the fabulous trails and locations from last year's trip. Keep up the good work 👍
I know what you mean nathan abot weight distribution. I have an fz6 and an mt09sp and the fz6 feel considerably heavier despite the higher spec weight on the MT. The Mt feels like I'm sat in it rather than on the on it. The FZ also has two stock exhausts underneath the seat
Another great review and summary. As you say, it's impressive to see the Chinese companies innovating while the Japanese seem content to rest on their laurels. I agree that the suspension seems to be tuned for a heavy or a fast rider, and is a bit firm for most.
"it wants to stand up all on its own".... like the sound of that. Be interesting to see in a couple of years whether CFmoto bore it out to a 500cc which may offer a touch more excitement and aid hwy speed? Great content. Thx
I think it's great to see you (and some others) counter balancing the drive for the bigger and more powerful the better 👍👍 And in a very clear and honest way as well! May I ask what bikes you would put on a shortlist for used bikes with the purpose of 75% of mild off road with 25 being transport on the black and no highways? I have a tdm900 for the black and an electric freeride for enduro tracks. I am a tall, improving beginner off road at 187cm. Want something not breaking the bank that I can learn to ride at least semi aggressive on gravel with. No long distances. Better to start on a 250/300 dual sport, a 350/400 or something around 600/650? Greetings from Sweden 😊
Great review -- thank you! I have one of these on order, coming off a Kove 450 Rally which is a very different beast (also a great bike as long as it's ridden by a far more skilled biker than me). Lots of reviewers say the MT suspension is very stiff, but I wonder how many have tried the Kove. To give a bit of context, friend of mine is a Romaniacs regular and he can make the Kove dance around his enduro practice track, as long as it's set almost as soft as it goes.
FRASHD tuning In Oz personly owns one of these bikes and has spent a lot of time creating a good re map and is getting an extra 7 hp with the stander setup bike!
I personally wouldn’t wait until it’s back in the dealers. There are so many pre orders being taken for this bike, in the UK all of the Spring shipment is going to be sold out, and you’ll be waiting another 6 months. If you want one, then I would get a deposit down.
I’ve just ordered one, I wanted something with more rider comfort to get to the trails. The little Serrow has done a cracking job teaching me the basics, but it’s too cramped for distance. Sad to see it go, with its 93 mpg and easy to lift after dropping it.
Hey all. Good to see CFMoto constantly improving and becoming 'mainstream'. I have a 650MT, probably two CFMoto generations before this 450MT, and while it certainly has the extra horses, the extra weight, less suspension travel and smaller wheels would mean I don't think this trip would be particularly enjoyable. Nonetheless, I've found it a great bike to ride and certainly confidence inspiring to take it places you wouldn't normally go on a 'road' bike. By the way, was that a yellow scooter that was on the pipe!? Cheers.
Interesting comment about the Chinese listening to their customers. I have just been to Morocco and small Chinese made mopeds/motorbikes are very popular. They like them as affordable (third of the price of Honda/Yamaha), spares readily available and simple. They can easily repair them.
So you may need a larger front sprocket, and maybe better suspension if you find it too firm, but people say the same about much more expensive bikes. I’ve bought a couple of top end adv bikes new in the past - poor quality suspension, either no bash plate, or it’s paper thin, no engine bars or crash protection, bars too low, seat too soft and uncomfortable, windscreen noisy etc - before you know it you’ve spent most of the cost price of the MT450 getting it working properly. Madness!
Thank you Nathan, proprietor of, 'Don't Look Down Tours'! Quite a frightening wake-up call for companies we thought were 'the best' ever since the 60's!, I wonder if anyone could track down just who are the guys CF assembled to mastermind or did they just buy in a complete package?
This is the question. How did CFMoto create a bike to lead the market? Genuinely interested to know how they derived the requirements of the adv market. However, time will tell if advs turn out profitable.
@@christopherpekel6096 exactly, the world's leading factories in every industry are in China. That said any brand could have launched this motorcycle (probably paying the same Chinese factory to make them) but would have done so with much greater mark-up to fund brand marketing and inflate residuals, and possibly without the economies of scale that CFMoto can get by pricing low and selling bikes faster than they can build them.
@@christopherpekel6096 the opposite really. It's amazing how badly the major manufacturers have failed to build this bike though. Where is the CRF450LRally?
Nice review Nathan and now all I have to do is wait until there's enough of them in the showrooms to buy. Pity about the Stella being canned over paperwork. It was never really an organised event in the sense of a traditional rally but I guess someone behind the scenes had to take responsibility for it and without Insurance etc they'd be the ones in the firing line. I've done the event a few times as I was often just over the border in France - as I was last week, which is why the snow and ice looked very familiar. We had complete white out blizzards in Alpe D'Huez and from memory much of the Stella track is at about the same altitude.
Tried to view one in Exeter dealership but there was none available till next year and I live in mid Cornwall close to tregoss moor and clay mining area roads not in great state so this appeals over crf300l or rally . Was lucky to be on holiday in Philippines which press launch was held and dealer here has one in stock so was able to try it for size very impressed by fit n finish just gotta get a test ride now to see if it really fits like a glove ps great review
Rally Raid have a suspension upgrade in the pipeline and I am starting to see ecu remapping available to add 3-5hp. Looks like as more aftermarket specialists get hold of the bike we are going to see a lot of options become available to enhance what is already a great package.
We had a 390 Adventure on the tour which managed ok. The Duke could manage if ridden carefully, but I wouldn't say it's the 'right' bike for the job, and I wouldn't personally take someone on a Duke on the tour with me. But doing it on your own, you'd probably be alright.
Reusing a gearbox, for example, and only messing with the final drive. The cfmoto is basically cruising at the same rpm-for-speed as a crf300, which is a much smaller capacity bike, but does, in fact, have a long 6th.
Got mine on order but looks like I'll have to be patient. Might have missed the boat on the ones arriving Feb/March. Going to be very different to my africa twin AS.
completely unrelated but i came across the voge300 yesterday on some trails, this was the 1st time i had seen it in the flesh, much bigger presence than i expected 🙂
Japanese are no.1 at quality control and will support a product well after production date. They aren't the quickest to market with innovation, hence the demise of some of their tech companies. More "good" competition the better...
@The_Arby China can make good stuff, but they will also make a death trap to order. The Japanese are very proud of the quality element and dont breach patents. The number of Chinese EVs exploding is scary.
@@Willberight2moro Same for both countries...Look at Chinese bikes few yrs back, they were crap...Now you've got the likes of CF-Moto selling great bikes...Your not convincing me AT ALL!!!
@The_Arby I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Taiwan is huge in the push bike market, and China will invade when it suits them.... Just don't expect after service in 5 years time...
Looking at this or a KLR650 as my first dual sport after 8 years of riding. Living in NewZealand for the next couple of years and looking for a cheap tourer and dirt road explorer. Any comparison between those two?
I haven't spent much time on a klr to be fair but from what I remember it's an old school thumper. Long soft suspension, lumpy tractable engine. Probably better for the trails. And fine on the road at a pace. The cf moto is just more modern, more refined and better if you're hitting any highways/motorways
I've been around quite a few dealers looking at the Himalayan etc and they all have very long lead times. All these newer bikes that are proving popular are only coming into the country in small numbers. I bet they could sell twice as many if they were available.
It’s baffling Nathan - Triumph seems to have a hit with their 400s, my local dealer has a Speed or Scrambler in just about every colour, yet they’ve apparently Triumph has already sold 50,000 of them. I wonder whether CF Moto is having to prioritize building/setting up production of KTM bikes as it sounds like a new 650 adventure is on the cards?
@@MH-xd2nd the main market for Royal Enfield is India and only a trickle of bikes make it into our tiny market. I wonder if the same is true for CFMoto in China, but as a minimum they are chasing global sales and the UK is alwyas a tiny fraction of that. Look at all the youtube reviews from the US, Oz, Asia Pacific etc that's where the bikes are going
@@Sankara561is that really true though? If Royal Enfield was really pushing for global sales and profit, they would divert all of their Himalayan production to the UK and western markets where it sells for over 50% more than in India. A brand new Himalayan over there is about £3000, which they must be making some profit on, but they could make so much more over here.
Thanks for your review, value your opinion. What's your thoughts on the Cabilero, sure you've not covered it before? Great looking bike, concidering one.
I rode the caballero on this tour briefly. It's good. Quote rough compared to the triumph 400, but feels much lighter. Longer travel suspension. I've always found them overpriced but a good second hand one could be a good option
Quick query. So you seem to have found the "unicorn" bike but. Have you also found the ultra elusive "unicorn" tyre? Reports are that the std tyres aren't very good in the slimy stuff (and it certainly appears you are having to deal with that). Personally, I've been searching for more years than I should care to mention and it's always been a trade off so just wondered what your opinion is? I'd say the stock tyres are surprisingly good on road but have not yet had the chance to test them properly on the trails. Nice to see everyone enjoying themselves and must admit to being a bit jealous though, as some sort of compensation, It's like the middle of summer beck here in the UK. Very strange.
Hi Nathan - maybe your next bike could be a Kove 800 - same weight as the CF 450 but with 80 odd bhp at the back wheel ? Great video, review- cheers , John from Ireland
Hey Nathan, I appreciate all your feedback on motorcycles and the 450MT. The shortcoming’s of the bike you mention are suspension tuning and engine grunt. Do you plan to address these concerns with the aftermarket as it seems you probably can find a solutions for these and I am interested in seeing what you come up with to address them. Thanks
To be honest the beauty of this bike is the quality for the price. Start throwing money at it and you start to ruin it. Leave alone and ride I think with this one.
Mini Tenere - I am considering buying one . Can you tell us which ( if any ) of this bikes in your touring group broke down , and what went wrong ?... ...
No breakdowns. Just a puncture on a Himalayan 411. I've not had many customer bikes breakdown over the years. If there's a trend it tends to be the 10 year + old bikes that just have some mechanical gremlin. The newer stuff I've never had a problem with.
I was beginning to regret buying my Voge 300R - until you got to talking about the firm suspension 8:05 ....so get some experience on the 300 and then see.
Can we all agree that Nathan is by far the best and most importantly, the one with the most real down to earth, practical as well as useful reviews and perspective of anyone out there? His reviews make you feel almost as if you "know" the bike already, and what to, and not to expect. Always top of his game and yet so humble about it! Gotta love and appreciate this guy.
Thanks uncle bob
Hear hear
Really love Nathans views.
Yea, after seeing this latest, yea, he says it.
Nathan has become my go to for bike reviews….no messing, no being politically correct to protect manufacturer relationships…..just honest, clear and real world. Love it.
Yes, very knowledgeable, combined with down to earth practical.
Politically correct? What are you talking about?
@@MalleeMateread the full sentence!
"Hi guys, so got a group of 12 riders on Mars, some lovely tracks and a reasonable level of challenge on a mix of bikes..." you Sir, are a legend. 👍
That is quite an endorsement from a person who knows what he’s talking about, and has put his money where his mouth is! Glad it’s gone well for you, Nathan. Of course, I’m impressed that there is a Serow 225 in the mix! Top marks to the rider of that bike. Very light, but low powered. Ride safe! Les
I lived in Tokyo in the early '90s. I saw quite a lot of Serow 225s around.
@@1990-t1j I’m sure. I have a ‘personal import from Japan’ XT225, (1992) and love it to bits. I didn’t import it. I think it might have been used on LDTs by the first British owner. My other bike is an Innova (ANF 125) somewhat modified. Les
@@leslieaustin151 The Innova is the Honda Wave in Thailand. I can't get on with the gear change, Les. Nick
@@1990-t1j Nick, I agree, the gearchange doesn’t suit me, so I’ve changed it round so it’s down for down, up for up, and I ignore the ‘cyclic’ neutral.
@@leslieaustin151 Neat.
A brilliant review, followed by "I'm gonna get me dinner" Brilliant. I love my 450MT, came off a Tenere and the 450 suits my ability much better.
Another straight forward review from someone who actually wears the tshirt. Very well done.
Great video, and an excellent point that the Chinese seem to be listening to the consumer, rather than doing what most everyone else does and designing a bike then pushing it on everyone. I’m a shorter rider (28” inseam) of average skill, and I’ve often been puzzled by manufacturers who introduce an entry level or mid-level bike with a seat height of 35-37 inches. I understand the need for ground clearance, but for me at least, those taller bikes are a no go. Anyway, thanks for the video.
Great video Nathan! Amazing scenery, plus the drone and the usual down to earth commentary! Have a safe journey home!
Thanks Nathan, great review as ever. Placed my order this week for a CFMotor 450MT, now the long wait, as you say, a manufacturer who has listened and delivered. Safe trip back.
Looks like a great trip.
I wonder if with the success of the 450, CF will provide a 'hot' version with the upgrades you mentioned? They've listened so far.
I think the best point you made was that everyone had a great trip whatever they rode. That's important, use whatever you ride. Get out and travel. It creates an appetite that you'll never satisfy.
Ride safe 👍
Deposit on 450MT with North West Powersport Skelmersdale paid yesterday. They have access to one for a test rid. Ian, the boss, is knowledgeable, easy going, professional.
Bike due February. Can't wait!
Had mine for a week now and I am loving it - coming down from a large capacity adventure to something of this size was a bit worrying but I am glad I have made the change
How are you finding the suspension? I wonder if its down to the weight of the rider i have a CF450 on order and i am 95kg
@@drd3816 I'm a 120kg rider and it came factory far too hard, backed off all the compression and rebound at least 3-4 clicks, and added some preload and so far so good. Not tried it on any tough stuff at speed yet
I always give you a thumbs before I watch you Nathan because you always provide gold content. Cheers for that!
Awesome , no-nonsense review, and some amazing views. I had no clue (I am not a biker yet) that there are these kinds of trails in Alps. That is something I will be very much loking forward to a little bit down the road.
Best reviewer around
I have one Nathan...agree what you saying about the suspension..feel at slower riding it will beat you up abit ...I've put 15t front sproket on .. think personally a improvement ..only gripe I have is the service intervals 3.100 miles to keep warranty...otherwise I can't fault the bike ...Great chat ..keep um coming..stay safe..
Awesome hearing your thoughts on the CFMoto 450 MT.... a real shame my local dealership is closing, so no idea where I'd be able to get one serviced, or even buy one from currently. Hopefully the main manufacturers will take note and build us a bike we want too!
Loved that apraisal - and you are right, the big mainstream manufacturers just seem to want to make bigger, heavier more complicated bikes when the CF450 proves that unicorns can exist.
Excellent review. Great piece to camera (apparently unscripted !). The tours look incredible. Thanks Nathan! Keep up the good work. Meantime I’ll be ordering my Ibex 450 providing you haven’t done such a good job there’s none left to buy!
Legendary review Nathan its great to head that you are finding something that you are really enjoying that’s totally the main thing :) that bike that makes you look look n look again n think of the adventures and places itl lead you when you have those moments you can’t ride an then when those dreams become reality the best feeling ever. :) brilliant review an thanks for sharing might wind up bumping into you down in Devon just got back from a week of house hunting in Somerset after we lost a house we had an offer on in west Devon total pain things always have a funny way of working out. Happy travels to all on the trip.
Unbiased review. Thank you Nathan for this video. Some “famous” channel discredit this bike or Chinese brand in general without even riding one. I bought one because of your channel and glad i made that decision. Really happy with my Chinese brand off road bike 😂 Cheers!
If it's the channel I'm thinking of they didn't seem to stick to principle and gladly accepted a free overseas jolly from another fledgling (developing world) brand.
This is a real customers bike. Maybe I didn't see bad review on this bike ever. Very honest review from you👍
As ever, an excellent synopsis Nathan.
I ordered mine yesterday and it won’t arrive quick enough.
Thank you Nathan for your reviews. Keep up the good work
Cracking feedback Nath. Love the honesty mate. Doesn't half make me want a Caballero Rally again... 😂
So great to see a bike that's so common sense. Why would a manufacturer hide ABS options somewhere in on screen settings? Why would they spec absolute bottom-tier suspension but charge top -shelf price? Why not just make the bike everyone wants? Seems like CFMoto has just about nailed it, and when you see a new DR650 going for almost as much, and a CRF going for even more, doesn't even really seem to be a competition. Would love to see Yamaha and Suzuki put something out to go against this, the Himalayan 450, and the CB500x.
great looking trails and scenery ,
Brilliant Nathan & fantastic efforts by all.
On your return to Blighty, i'd love to see you do a back to back review of the MT450 v Voge525dsx, putting both through their paces as adventure bikes.
Both are hot property & sold out virtually everywhere...though I'd like to know which one to pre-order at my local dealer...& you're the person I'd trust to do this back to back testing.
To be honest there's no contest. The Voge is a great copy of a 500x and is a really good road tourer/commuter, but the scope for the CF Moto is much broader and it's just a more charismatic and inspiring machine. But I wish it had the voge's extra grunt!
@@nathanthepostman
Thanks for your reply.
So the MT450 equally capable as the 525 at what it excells in, plus a much better off roader?
If a 50/50 split of road & offload is needed, the MT450.
If 75% road 25% offload the 525?
Good to see this bike is doing well. As an owner of a T7 and a more experienced/aggressive rider I feel like it is perfect for me minus how heavy it is. If it was 400lbs it would be the unicorn. It's pretty damned close as is though. If I was newer or less aggressive I'd definitely be going for the 450mt, and I suspect many experienced riders will enjoy it . Here's for hoping China becomes the new Japan since Japanese companies don't seem to be interested in giving us what we want.
Nathan, nobody else crams this much sense into 15 minutes. If you were paid by the word, you would be a tax exile;)
A postman who deliveres from the hip 💵 Definitely have a test ride when the new batch arrives.. Kudos to the Serrow pushing adventure 😎
From charring with a dealer when I ordered one this week, he advised it's unlikely that demos will be available while there are people waiting for bikes. Mine will be next year perhaps as late as June as the wait list is quite long.
Great to hear the trip has delivered adventure, trepidation and thrills.
Very interesting thoughts on the bike.
Morning Nathan, excellent as usual, thank you(
P.s mine is on order!
Glad to hear this because I've ordered one.😊
Nathan, enjoying your channel very much. May I say a little about the perceived “unicorn” CF moto MT450. I think this bike looks great, but I and many others have been riding a 55hp bike from the late 80’s that also weighs 175kg dry, has twin cylinders, 21” front and is renowned for being reliable and rugged. Mine has served me well for decades; it has reccied trails for my 4x4 tour business and crossed countries loaded and 2up; many have been used to travel the World. Bring the MT450 on as another so called ADV bike, but tbh I’m not seeing a “new unicorn bike”, as 175kg dry, 600, 55 hp, 21 road/trail bike arrived the late 80’s. Atb, ride far and safe.
Thanks Pyrenean. I sort of appreciate the sentiment but you can only compare new bikes with new bikes. Comparing them to 40 year old bikes from a different era is kinda pointless because you can't buy them anymore. So my reviews of the CF Moto or any bike are in the context of the new bike market. Certainly there's been similar and arguably better bikes before it, but it's in the context of the 2024 market and 2024 prices that I view the CF moto.
Yamaha Serow XT225 best bike there! It is light, powerful, beautiful and great for trails! I had two, and I could easily have another 3rd. I really like your channel Nathan, but unfortunately I dont want to support chinese bikes, chinese market for obvious reasons (political mainly). Take it easy ;)
The one thing you are good at talking about Nathan, is good old common sense, small is beautiful. 👍
Love seeing an old g reg yamaha still out there doing adventures. Proves you don’t need a monster gs1300 to have adventure.
Great review and not in market for a new bike but enjoy these
Ridden by 65 year old Jan, passed her test at age 52.
@@nathanthepostman what a legend!
Great review for a great bike. Just got back from a bit of TET in northern France on mine. I couldn't venture too far on the muddy sections being by myself and of limited skill, but overall it is an easy bike to ride and really enjoyable on road and trail. Could have done with the 15 tooth sprocket for 300 miles of motorway home today but it is so smooth that I and the bike seemed to tolerate hours at 7000rpm quite well.
Anyone on the fence should just put their deposit down.
Whole trip sounds exciting and well executed. Great stuff, adapting route for bikes simplicity itself. 👍
Good honest review….have you ridden the Tuareg 660? Be interesting to get your opinion as you often compare to Ténéré…I think the Tuareg is great and available new for £9k.
Very good interesting review of the cf Moto 450 we know if it was crap you would certainly tell us in your review! That’s what I like in your videos you say it as it is every time and you know what you’re talking about!
So great to see the footage from Col de l'Iseran and the off road stuff I'll never have the skills for, really nicely shot. It still saddens me that the Japanese effectively abandoned the 'dual sport' market especially after such long serving classics like the KLR and DR650, I wonder if they've an eye on the CFMoto sales figures, I'd be surprised if they didn't.
Great review as ever Nathan, and that looks like an incredible trip with brilliant trails 👍
Plan the route to suit the bike, not the bike to suit the route. Wise words there Nathan.
1:06 What scenery.
It sounds like a good bike. Certainly looks good. I like the sound of the low-slung weight. 200 kg is still a lot for a 450cc bike to haul, though. Nick
If you want no bullshit straight honest views, Nathan is the man without doubt the best motorcycle journalist in the uk. He could make a tidy income as a manufacturer consultant without doubt.
Done 800 miles on mine done the 15 tooth sprocket mode and its brilliant now I'm a very happy bunny ❤
What a great honest down to earth video…own a T7 at the moment but seriously thinking of a change to the CF450 👍
Looks like an awesome trip. Mountain trails in the snow!
Thanks for the great review. Great to see a Chinese company now leading the way rather than following.
Also great to recognise some of the fabulous trails and locations from last year's trip. Keep up the good work 👍
good, honest, unbiased review, thank you!
Another good review, great footage. Lovely to see that Serow, superb bike, if a wee bit cramped.
I know what you mean nathan abot weight distribution. I have an fz6 and an mt09sp and the fz6 feel considerably heavier despite the higher spec weight on the MT. The Mt feels like I'm sat in it rather than on the on it. The FZ also has two stock exhausts underneath the seat
Thanks for the confidence in the mt have one on order but taking a long time can’t wait to try it out carry on
Another great review and summary. As you say, it's impressive to see the Chinese companies innovating while the Japanese seem content to rest on their laurels. I agree that the suspension seems to be tuned for a heavy or a fast rider, and is a bit firm for most.
"it wants to stand up all on its own".... like the sound of that. Be interesting to see in a couple of years whether CFmoto bore it out to a 500cc which may offer a touch more excitement and aid hwy speed? Great content. Thx
Looks like a great trip Nathan
I think it's great to see you (and some others) counter balancing the drive for the bigger and more powerful the better 👍👍 And in a very clear and honest way as well!
May I ask what bikes you would put on a shortlist for used bikes with the purpose of 75% of mild off road with 25 being transport on the black and no highways?
I have a tdm900 for the black and an electric freeride for enduro tracks. I am a tall, improving beginner off road at 187cm. Want something not breaking the bank that I can learn to ride at least semi aggressive on gravel with. No long distances.
Better to start on a 250/300 dual sport, a 350/400 or something around 600/650?
Greetings from Sweden 😊
Great review -- thank you! I have one of these on order, coming off a Kove 450 Rally which is a very different beast (also a great bike as long as it's ridden by a far more skilled biker than me). Lots of reviewers say the MT suspension is very stiff, but I wonder how many have tried the Kove. To give a bit of context, friend of mine is a Romaniacs regular and he can make the Kove dance around his enduro practice track, as long as it's set almost as soft as it goes.
FRASHD tuning In Oz personly owns one of these bikes and has spent a lot of time creating a good re map and is getting an extra 7 hp with the stander setup bike!
Hi buddy would this map be available in the UK ?
EPIC trails out there man. I’ve been considering the CF when it’s available again, so really appreciate this honest review 🙏🏼
I personally wouldn’t wait until it’s back in the dealers. There are so many pre orders being taken for this bike, in the UK all of the Spring shipment is going to be sold out, and you’ll be waiting another 6 months. If you want one, then I would get a deposit down.
I’ve just ordered one, I wanted something with more rider comfort to get to the trails. The little Serrow has done a cracking job teaching me the basics, but it’s too cramped for distance. Sad to see it go, with its 93 mpg and easy to lift after dropping it.
Hey all. Good to see CFMoto constantly improving and becoming 'mainstream'. I have a 650MT, probably two CFMoto generations before this 450MT, and while it certainly has the extra horses, the extra weight, less suspension travel and smaller wheels would mean I don't think this trip would be particularly enjoyable. Nonetheless, I've found it a great bike to ride and certainly confidence inspiring to take it places you wouldn't normally go on a 'road' bike. By the way, was that a yellow scooter that was on the pipe!? Cheers.
Interesting comment about the Chinese listening to their customers. I have just been to Morocco and small Chinese made mopeds/motorbikes are very popular. They like them as affordable (third of the price of Honda/Yamaha), spares readily available and simple. They can easily repair them.
So you may need a larger front sprocket, and maybe better suspension if you find it too firm, but people say the same about much more expensive bikes. I’ve bought a couple of top end adv bikes new in the past - poor quality suspension, either no bash plate, or it’s paper thin, no engine bars or crash protection, bars too low, seat too soft and uncomfortable, windscreen noisy etc - before you know it you’ve spent most of the cost price of the MT450 getting it working properly. Madness!
Or, just adjust the compression and rebound
Thank you Nathan, proprietor of, 'Don't Look Down Tours'! Quite a frightening wake-up call for companies we thought were 'the best' ever since the 60's!, I wonder if anyone could track down just who are the guys CF assembled to mastermind or did they just buy in a complete package?
This is the question. How did CFMoto create a bike to lead the market? Genuinely interested to know how they derived the requirements of the adv market. However, time will tell if advs turn out profitable.
@@nicktaylor1550 Could it be that as they are World leaders in AI, some genie has collated everything then hit the print button? Scary!
@@nicktaylor1550it's like you're saying Chinese are stupid
I know you didn't mean that but we have to give them credit
They saw a gap and went for it
@@christopherpekel6096 exactly, the world's leading factories in every industry are in China. That said any brand could have launched this motorcycle (probably paying the same Chinese factory to make them) but would have done so with much greater mark-up to fund brand marketing and inflate residuals, and possibly without the economies of scale that CFMoto can get by pricing low and selling bikes faster than they can build them.
@@christopherpekel6096 the opposite really. It's amazing how badly the major manufacturers have failed to build this bike though. Where is the CRF450LRally?
An excellent and useful review. Many thanks Nathan
Nice review Nathan and now all I have to do is wait until there's enough of them in the showrooms to buy. Pity about the Stella being canned over paperwork. It was never really an organised event in the sense of a traditional rally but I guess someone behind the scenes had to take responsibility for it and without Insurance etc they'd be the ones in the firing line. I've done the event a few times as I was often just over the border in France - as I was last week, which is why the snow and ice looked very familiar. We had complete white out blizzards in Alpe D'Huez and from memory much of the Stella track is at about the same altitude.
You know that Yamaha has the MT03 twin motor that could be a Tenere 350 and Kawasaki has 400cc motor on the Ninja that could be on the Versys
Yes exactly. They all the right ingredients but don't seem to want to use them
Have you ridden the Serrow 225 before? Is there any chance you could get a hold of one for a video?
Should this one be good for a 1m70 earthling? I really want a trail but there are usually made for giants.
Looks a good trip.. a little cooler than a few weeks ago. Regards to all.... V Strom Daz
Great review, seems like a gem of a bike, must check out your trips.
Tried to view one in Exeter dealership but there was none available till next year and I live in mid Cornwall close to tregoss moor and clay mining area roads not in great state so this appeals over crf300l or rally . Was lucky to be on holiday in Philippines which press launch was held and dealer here has one in stock so was able to try it for size very impressed by fit n finish just gotta get a test ride now to see if it really fits like a glove ps great review
Rally Raid have a suspension upgrade in the pipeline and I am starting to see ecu remapping available to add 3-5hp. Looks like as more aftermarket specialists get hold of the bike we are going to see a lot of options become available to enhance what is already a great package.
The CF Moto 450mt is a perfect machine. I got a Duke 390. Do you think it will be suitable for this sort of trips?
We had a 390 Adventure on the tour which managed ok. The Duke could manage if ridden carefully, but I wouldn't say it's the 'right' bike for the job, and I wouldn't personally take someone on a Duke on the tour with me. But doing it on your own, you'd probably be alright.
Cracking review. Thanks Nathan 😉
What prevents the manufacturer making 5,6th gear a little longer for the road, your probably not gonna need them on the trail?
Reusing a gearbox, for example, and only messing with the final drive.
The cfmoto is basically cruising at the same rpm-for-speed as a crf300, which is a much smaller capacity bike, but does, in fact, have a long 6th.
It would be interesting to see what a remap could achieve. Perhaps an the extra 10% more HP would materialize.
Got mine on order but looks like I'll have to be patient. Might have missed the boat on the ones arriving Feb/March. Going to be very different to my africa twin AS.
So wait for the Rally Raid suspension, then an exhaust, filter and map and it will be THE medium weight adventure bike?
completely unrelated but i came across the voge300 yesterday on some trails, this was the 1st time i had seen it in the flesh, much bigger presence than i expected 🙂
Yeah good bikes. Great bikes in fact
I've just test ridden a 300 rally ( and ordered one) and it looks imposing but I found it a lot easier to handle than the 411 himalayan
@@andrewblock5087 yeah, looks great, I need to ride one for sure now I've seen one
Well said Nathan...It's time those Japanese manufacturers built better and cheaper and more about what the customers want...Nice one Nathan 🙂
Japanese are no.1 at quality control and will support a product well after production date. They aren't the quickest to market with innovation, hence the demise of some of their tech companies.
More "good" competition the better...
@@Willberight2moro Only a matter of time, before the Chinese build better than the Japanese 🙂
@The_Arby China can make good stuff, but they will also make a death trap to order. The Japanese are very proud of the quality element and dont breach patents. The number of Chinese EVs exploding is scary.
@@Willberight2moro Same for both countries...Look at Chinese bikes few yrs back, they were crap...Now you've got the likes of CF-Moto selling great bikes...Your not convincing me AT ALL!!!
@The_Arby I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Taiwan is huge in the push bike market, and China will invade when it suits them....
Just don't expect after service in 5 years time...
Looking at this or a KLR650 as my first dual sport after 8 years of riding. Living in NewZealand for the next couple of years and looking for a cheap tourer and dirt road explorer. Any comparison between those two?
I haven't spent much time on a klr to be fair but from what I remember it's an old school thumper. Long soft suspension, lumpy tractable engine. Probably better for the trails. And fine on the road at a pace. The cf moto is just more modern, more refined and better if you're hitting any highways/motorways
I've been around quite a few dealers looking at the Himalayan etc and they all have very long lead times. All these newer bikes that are proving popular are only coming into the country in small numbers. I bet they could sell twice as many if they were available.
Yes it's a shame they haven't got more capacity. seems like they're all running lean on stock
It’s baffling Nathan - Triumph seems to have a hit with their 400s, my local dealer has a Speed or Scrambler in just about every colour, yet they’ve apparently Triumph has already sold 50,000 of them. I wonder whether CF Moto is having to prioritize building/setting up production of KTM bikes as it sounds like a new 650 adventure is on the cards?
@@MH-xd2nd the main market for Royal Enfield is India and only a trickle of bikes make it into our tiny market. I wonder if the same is true for CFMoto in China, but as a minimum they are chasing global sales and the UK is alwyas a tiny fraction of that. Look at all the youtube reviews from the US, Oz, Asia Pacific etc that's where the bikes are going
@@Sankara561is that really true though? If Royal Enfield was really pushing for global sales and profit, they would divert all of their Himalayan production to the UK and western markets where it sells for over 50% more than in India. A brand new Himalayan over there is about £3000, which they must be making some profit on, but they could make so much more over here.
Definitely Adv bike of the year, certainly not a two wheeled Chelsea tractor.
Amazing info on this bike. What is the 225 machine you mention a couple of times, e.g. at 12:53?
It's a Yamaha Serow 225
@@nathanthepostman Thanks. Never heard about it.
I’m an aging BMW 1200GS rider looking for something smaller. This may be the bike for me.
I think any of these smaller bikes could be worth looking at. Nx500, 390 KTM, cf moto...
Real world honest insightful review!
CF moto have really caught the Japanese napping. How will the big 4 react?
Thanks for a great review, will this tour be running next year please ?
Thanks for your review, value your opinion. What's your thoughts on the Cabilero, sure you've not covered it before? Great looking bike, concidering one.
I rode the caballero on this tour briefly. It's good. Quote rough compared to the triumph 400, but feels much lighter. Longer travel suspension. I've always found them overpriced but a good second hand one could be a good option
Quick query. So you seem to have found the "unicorn" bike but. Have you also found the ultra elusive "unicorn" tyre?
Reports are that the std tyres aren't very good in the slimy stuff (and it certainly appears you are having to deal with that). Personally, I've been searching for more years than I should care to mention and it's always been a trade off so just wondered what your opinion is?
I'd say the stock tyres are surprisingly good on road but have not yet had the chance to test them properly on the trails.
Nice to see everyone enjoying themselves and must admit to being a bit jealous though, as some sort of compensation, It's like the middle of summer beck here in the UK. Very strange.
Yeah tyres are fine. A good all rounder. Obviously knobbies if you're riding regularly mud but often bad tyres are the blame for bad riding
Hi Nathan - maybe your next bike could be a Kove 800 - same weight as the CF 450 but with 80 odd bhp at the back wheel ? Great video, review- cheers , John from Ireland
Hey Nathan, I appreciate all your feedback on motorcycles and the 450MT. The shortcoming’s of the bike you mention are suspension tuning and engine grunt. Do you plan to address these concerns with the aftermarket as it seems you probably can find a solutions for these and I am interested in seeing what you come up with to address them. Thanks
To be honest the beauty of this bike is the quality for the price. Start throwing money at it and you start to ruin it. Leave alone and ride I think with this one.
Would love a review from you of the DR 650
Unfortunately we don't get them here in the UK. There's a few imports floating around but theyre big money
Nice one Nathan , hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm will it replace the DR650 in my garage ?
Mini Tenere - I am considering buying one . Can you tell us which ( if any ) of this bikes in your touring group broke down , and what went wrong ?... ...
No breakdowns. Just a puncture on a Himalayan 411. I've not had many customer bikes breakdown over the years. If there's a trend it tends to be the 10 year + old bikes that just have some mechanical gremlin. The newer stuff I've never had a problem with.
I was beginning to regret buying my Voge 300R - until you got to talking about the firm suspension 8:05 ....so get some experience on the 300 and then see.
Great bikes the Voge. 3 went with me to Iceland in July. 4 on this trip. All performed well