With the “Divorcing Atlanta” one, I actually liked the original more than what the guy suggested. As a reader we already know that inanimate objects can’t physically do anything without someone picking them up, we don’t need that spelled out for us. We know the gun isn’t going to do any of those things by itself (obviously) but as a reader I like the picture it paints when the focus is placed on the gun, it’s more enthralling to me. I think the author meant to place focus there instead of on the character, no matter which three of those things happens the gun will play a major role. The way they re-worded it sounds weird to me, almost too precise. Plus, the way the author worded it actually tells us something about the main character, it tells us how much weight is being placed on the gun and not on themselves. It kind of shows us how the character thinks and gives us a peek at them as a person. Idk, maybe it’s just personal preference. I’m not a professional by any means, but as an avid reader I would have liked the original sentence better.
Especially since it’s in first person and that is how some people think. I absolutely agree that it says something about the character and how he/she is taking away their own responsibility and putting it on the gun and changing that changes the character.
That's the thing about critiques, even by professionals -- their suggestions and edits are often colored by their personal biases. One editor may love what you wrote, while another may not like it at all. Still, if more than one of them suggest similar changes, that's at least worth looking at and giving it an honest assessment. You may not agree with them in the end anyway, but not dismissing them out of hand is more professional and honest. Of course, that's just this amateur unpublished writer's opinion, so worth as much as whatever value is assigned to it.
Wow think each of you for your thoughts. I really try to keep an open mind and receive everyone's thoughts for all its worth. But I agree I wants to evoke the chaotic nature of his mind in this moment. That’s why I went from the visceral to to the emotional in the first paragraph. As the agent and editor know, todays reader has such a short attention span and unless you can put your two fingers in their nostrils and drag them through that first page-you stand to lose them to the next tweet popping up on their phone. The gun is used because I want to pull the reader into the passage long enough to at least get an answer to the question, “will he use the gun?” And just so you know-yes he will. :-) But thank each of you for your thoughts. To Readsy-wow. What an honor to have you read my words and share your thoughts. This goes on the highlight reel of my writing career. For those of you who are amateurs I rewrote those first 100 words maybe 50 times. The first version is absolutely dreadful but I’m always looking for ways to make my best even better. IF you’d like to read more of hear a brief audio version please go to my website. PastorTimmothy.com
Wow. As the author of Divorcing Atlanta I thank you guys! Plus for those who commented I thank you as well. I really try to keep an open mind and receive everyone's thoughts for all its worth. I wanted to evoke the chaotic nature of his mind in this moment. That’s why I went from the visceral to to the emotional in the first paragraph. As the agent and editor know, todays reader has such a short attention span and unless you can put your two fingers in their nostrils and drag them through that first page-you run the risk of loosing them to the next tweet popping up on their phone. The gun is used because I want to pull the reader into the passage long enough to at least get an answer to the question, “will he use the gun?” And just so you know-yes he will. :-) But thank each of you for your thoughts. To Readsy-wow. What an honor to have you read my words and share your thoughts. This goes on the highlight reel of my writing career. For those of you who are amateurs I rewrote those first 100 words maybe 50 times. The first version is absolutely dreadful but I’m always looking for ways to make my best even better. IF you’d like to read more of hear a brief audio version please go to my website. PastorTimmothy.com
question regarding the first paragraph's critique. the reviewer didn't like being told what/how to feel.. but it wasn't the author telling the actual reader what/how to feel, it was the character, in the character's voice and personality, doing the narrating. giving us a glimpse into how the character thinks - ie, "I know what you're going to say." to me this character assumes the person she's telling her story to is going to have judgement or questions, which in itself shows us about her character; she's thoughtful, embarrassed, uncomfortable, guilty, presumptuous, etc. then she immediately answers our presumed judgment with a, "Nobody forced me." as if divulging more/answering us/defending herself from what the character assumes we'll think. all character building and creating a hook. so, if the first lines of the first paragraph were to establish the voice and character/personality, shouldn't that be ok? please respond
I disagree with the prologue comment. I read a lot. I like books with prologues. Most recently A Taste of Sugar by Marisel Vera. I think prologues work well in historical and science fiction. Not all readers are impatient.
It's a stupid soap box that a lot of people have jumped on - when the most successful fiction in a genre (fantasy) has a prologue obviously prologues aren't the problem. Sometimes something needs to happen unrelated to your characters in the beginning of a book that gives the reader an insight another viewpoint couldn't.
That’s the beautiful thing about writing! There is always going to be an audience for whatever you want to make, even if that audience is just one individual.
I like the way you conduct your critique videos, whether first lines or first paragraphs. They are concise, to the point, and quite helpful. I recently watched a "first page" critique video and it drove me crazy. Most annoying was she didn't stick to one page, so fewer examples were covered. She suggested changes but, unlike you folks, she didn't explain clearly why the changes were necessary. If I'm watching a critique of someone else's writing, I want it to teach me something. Your videos always accomplish that goal. Thanks.
Okay so the whole thing about you not being an exception to the rule is true. Yet one of my favorite things in writing is writing an entire story based off of breaking a rule so that the fact I'm doing something "incorrectly" becomes the highlight of the story. Like one of the short novellas I've written was based on the idea of an exciting climax told via a flashback from before the inciting incident. It's tentatively titled, I Need to Tell You Something About This Path. Ultimately it's probably a bad story, however it's not my worst.
Was at work when this aired but I was happy to see the recording. Quite helpful especially knowing “Commercial Fiction” is a real genre. Most of my work is Women’s Fiction, however. Thanks for all these wonderful topics and discussions, Reedsy! Hats off to Martin and all the guests.
"Seraphyna Night slipped from the palace like a wraith, despite the heavy armor she wore. Normally, she would already have removed it, of course. But this night, she was simply too tired to worry about it."
“Never start a novel with a generalisation…” 🌚🌝 “It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.” - Jane Austen, Pride & Prejudice, 20 million copies sold 😂
Fair. I think Rebecca would say, however, that you're probably not the exception, so you should just follow the rule. I would say that, like all rules, you have to know them before you can bend/break them. But then you can certainly bend/break them.
41:38 One of the reasons most people find novels boring , is because the "show don' t tell" lie, makes them fucking impenetrable. Most normal people, who don't naturally love reading, would MUCH rather read something that is explicitly interesting, than something which relies on implication. TELLING me that it is dangerous is interesting straight away. Making me WORK IT OUT, requires more time than most people are willing devote to a novel. I'm not saying you should dumb the content down, but why must writer types always assume you have to subtle everything up!?
Like all rules, this one is ok to bend/break. I think that the true path is to learn the rule, practice the rule, then, when you're quite comfortable with it, break the hell out of it, should you do choose.
But what if a prologue sets up the antagonist? It would seem odd to me to have chapter 1 told through the eyes of the antagonist and chapter 2 onwards told through the eyes of the protagonist. It feels more natural to have the seperation that a prologue provides, given the gap between both perspectives (that takes several chapters to close to a collision). Moving the prologue to chapter 1 feels like an unnatural combo breaker.
I agree! My sci-fi begins with a prologue that sets up the antagonist, and Chapter 1 introduces you to the protagonist. This method works best, especially if the antagonist isn't going to be seen again for a while.
It's only their opinions because a prologue can be a wonderful addition depending on how your overall story is written. Doesn't mean they are right. Writing is subjective. If my novel didn't have a prologue, it wouldn't be as exceptional because it starts off with the protagonists love of his life's death from her POV. This also leaves a mystery of what the hell happened. Lol. So, I'd take this person's advice with a huge grain of salt. Readers are your audience, so if your reader loves it, then that's what matters. The only time you don't need one is when multiple people say your story may work without it.
At what point should we care about the genre of the book we write? After draft 2 (after all the plot issues have worked out and we start to care about line editing)? Or should we care at plot level? I just try to tell a great story and don’t pay attention to the genre, but I know I have to care at some point.
It depends on the genre. Ha ha! That's unhelpful, I know. Some (most?) genres have certain formatting expectations that go along with them, & some of those may need to be in the author's mind from the beginning. It's possible, however, that all of these things can be adjusted in editing or in a second draft.
Re: The Romance Genre: The protagonists must meet within the first two pages and it must end happily. Check with the Romance Writers of America. VERY specific criteria.
I agree on the HEA, Kim, but meeting within the first two pages isn't a requirement. RWA is a great resource but definitely not the be-all end-all authority... honestly, it seems strange that they would put a page requirement on a meet-cute, given the many wonderful titles that violate this edict.
that is the starter line of an essay I would write when I was 15 lol. Like NO, I would not read a book that started off like that. Their critique for the first paragraph was also kind dumb. As a reader, yes I do get when it gets annoying when the author tells you what to feel but that wasn't the case there. and lol no she is a weirdo for saying "I don't like that first line because I'm a woman" like what? I'm a woman and that's such a weird thing to say. No one thinks that. I think that first entry was FINE. The guy seemed too passive and intimidated by the woman to really give any opinion
Whenever a subgenre of science fiction was mentioned, you pointed it out as a problem. However, historical romance did not receive the same comment, and historical is definitely an adjective. I'm also wondering about other subgenres like urban fantasy or high fantasy, which have been referenced before and have not been corrected to simply "fantasy". This is inconsistent and confusing to those of us who are not insiders. Which subgenres do you see as legitimate? Is there a list somewhere so that people outside of the publishing industry can understand when it's okay to put the adjective in there versus when it's considered incorrect?
Just thought I'd put my first paragraph here since I didn't get to submit it earlier. Feedback is much appreciated! Title: EXPOSED Genre: YA Suspense _Live a little._ Those words echoed in her head, louder than the blood pounding in her ear. If she could have, Charlie would have scoffed. But she was upside down, in her ex-boyfriend’s new car, in the city, at 1 in the morning. She was upside down, spine bent at an odd angle, and she had landed just shy of breaking her neck.
Is Charlie the mc, her boyfriend, or a third person. I’m assuming it’s the mc but it did take me a couple of reads to do that. I’m also assuming she ends of paralyzed due to the damage to her spine so I think that could be a very interesting read. I watched a movie based on true events about a girl who became paralyzed after getting hit by a car and it was emotional and fascinating.
my notes (not a professional): - why is she unable to scoff? scoffing doesn't require a lot of muscles to do. Also I think the second sentence kind of makes light of the situation she is in. I think it would work better if you expressed her fear or panic for her abduction. - write out the number 1 -does spine bent at an odd angle mean that it's broken? -you're repeating upside down and it kind of slows down the tension - "she had landed" pulls the reader back into the past, i think it would work better if instead she remembers how she almost broke her neck or write about the pain she still feels from this.
@@StarBoundAngel Thanks for the feedback! Yes, Charlie is the MC, but she does not end up paralysed. The reason her spine is bent is explained in the next paragraph of the chapter (which I will paste in another comment here).
@@tamarleahh.2150 Thanks for reading it! The reason why she can't scoff is further explained later on in the text and the beginning is meant to sound detached from her to show what may have happened, I used it as a bit of a shroud to the reader on purpose. I did just realise about the tense change in the second line, but the end is meant to be that way (I might just move the words around a little since you suggested). She hasn't been kidnapped, rather she is in a car wreck involving her ex-boyfriend.
The first eight and a half minutes of this video are hilarious. I love how she says peanut m&m's are basically a protein bar. So cute how embarrassed they are when the hosts had to reel back from their candy conversation back to the point of the video. Good stuff!😂
Hilarious jokes, great character writing, and awesome physical comedy. Those who are offended by it are missing out. Shall we start a go-fund-me to pay for the removal of sticks from their behinds?
It would also be very helpful, I think, if you were to choose some that you felt were really good and explain what makes them good. Knowing what makes something good/great/exceptional can be as useful as hearing what is wrong.
Although the stream was informative and entertaining, and the chat lively, the hosts didn't get to my submission so I'm putting it here for perusal and opinions. Instead of taking advantage of being able to post a longer excerpt, I'll keep it to the same length as the submission criteria and post the same thing I submitted. Title: Jacked (working title) Genre: Sci-Fi Neven Sievers felt his body growing colder as his life’s blood poured onto the deck plating and pooled around him. The pain still registered, but it was more of an afterthought, faint and in the background. He gazed upward as an indistinct shadow fell across his vision and reached towards him. Fear gripped him and held him immobile as surely as if the gravity had been increased tenfold.
DJ I'm no expert but it seems to me this prose is flowing lyrically, when it should be a series of short and sharp jabs which could give it more of the sense of urgency it needs. And could terror be a better word than fear?
@@shelleydarktravel1666 Interesting take on lyrical versus staccato. Maybe. You may be right about terror versus fear. It's impossible to convey the entire context of the scene in the first paragraph. All I can do is begin the scene, but the entire context is that Neven is investigating a person's murder and the scene is him reliving that person's last moments via a neural recording.
@@Phaite A neural recording. That's intriguing! Makes it more important that it feels really visceral, to increase the shock of finding out it's not even him dying.
As a reader, I am very intrigued by your immersive scene. You didn't tell but showed the character's imagined experience and situation. One thing to keep in mind is filtering words or phrases that drag your brilliant sentences down. You may already know what filtering is, but if not, there's many videos giving its defintion. Learning what filter words and phrases were instantly improved my own writing. Please continue this story. The concept is great!
They threw him into a hole, then sold him into slavery. They tore his distinctive multi-colored coat/robe & put goat's blood all over it, and then they gave it to their dad & told him Joseph had been killed by a lion.
As my wasn't chosen I wanted to submit it here, just wanted to see everyone's reaction. The Warrior Princess Fantasy Maybe, some people become sad when they think about the persons who are gone, but she was a different piece altogether, she felt proud whenever she thought about her mom, not everyone can do what her mom did, not everyone can first be a queen and then a mom. She knew, on a simple instinct, her mom can wrap her in a blanket and run away, leaving all her people to die bit she didn't. But she was proud, because her mom had taken the path which was less taken, she chose her kingdom, her people. And she wanted to take the path less taken too, to care for her people, to be a queen.
The first sentence is very long. You can probably say these things in fewer words and in a clearer way. Also I'm a bit confused by her mom pulling her into a blanket but also choosing her ppl over her private interests. I think this would work better if you first describe how the people saw her and then add her perspective. "To the people she was a heroic queen, to me she was mom. " also could you add some action in this? Is she about to be crowned? Is the crown heavy on her whereas her mom wore it with ease? Just some ideas, I'm not a professional
I like the contrast as a hook. A bit confused about ‘she’. Sometimes I need to think to realize which she you are referencing. The story/title sounds cool. I think it was from hanna lee kidder I learnt one should be careful with writing «some people think» in the beginning of a story, because people dont connect easily if it is too general reference so early in a story (or maybe it was reedsy who said it). Also, «she felt» and «she knew» are filter words, which is ok, but most authors today tend to like writing in deep pov or without filter words, so maybe some people feel like this is like a draft verdion. for the actual story I think it sounds cool. Queens sacrificing herself for people seems like something a queen is expected to do, yet I guess it might not only be so. So I wonder what type of sacrifice made this queen different. :) My take. I am not an editor, just like these types of channels i guess..sorry if this is bad critique, i hope its helpful
I'm a bit disappointed ... given I sat at my computer for an hour and a half, I feel that maybe there could have been more 'first liners' talked about. Some were talked about for too long. Maybe a different format, say in point form and with some pre-prepared alternatives written below the submission being talked about, would have been more useful than a chit-chat conversation. I hate to nit-pick and I usually don't, however I was expecting a lot more information and advice. I would also have like to have seen a couple of really good submissions with points on why they are so good, even though they still have a couple of flaws. I learn by example and comparison, so I can actually read and see the difference between other's submissions and my own. Sorry that this sounds so negative because I did get a lot out of it and picked up lots of really good tips and advice, I actually enjoyed your chit chat but it just crept into the time limit a bit much. Given all of my complaining here, thank you heaps for putting in your time to go through so many submissions and then share with us ... it would have been difficult to choose just a few out of so many and I appreciate your time and work. Kind regards, Janet :) PS: Here is my own submission ... just putting my "money where my mouth is" and open myself up to criticism . . . Standing at the cliff edge, surrounded by frenzied lightening strikes and bellowing thunder, Shirra revelled in the wild storm raging around her. She held her ground on strong, brown legs with her arms up in the air, palms upward, as if offering herself to the gods and felt more alive than ever. Crazy wind and driving rain blew a mass of wet chocolate brown hair around her face and threatened to blow her into the oblivion of the gorge below. Behind her Luke yelled out trying to be heard over the commotion of the storm. Another clap of thunder and she was gone. The storm began to ease as suddenly as it had roared to life. Overhead, a deafening shriek and the shape of huge wings against the grey clouds brought Luke out from under the huge tree he had been sheltering under. He stood on shaking legs, watching the creature fly out of sight and wondered how the hell he was going to explain it all to Shirra’s family. *Please feel free to 'go troppo' about it :)
3 things: 1) Lightening is "getting lighter." You're looking for "lightning." 2) Why do we need to know the colors of her legs and hair? We know nothing about Luke's looks. 3) The echo of "under," as Luke comes out from under the tree, is problematic. Saying the same word twice in that short a space is repetitive. Instead, say "as he came out from under the large tree where he'd been sheltering."
I am going to post mine here as well for critique Title: Ash Underwood String Theory to Hell YA Fantasy Someone famous once said life's a garden dig it someone a little more honest said life's shit grab a shovel. This is their story.
Matthew I'm no expert, but I love this beginning. I think that the 'grab the shovel' bit is the great punchline, so like a good joke, should be last. 'This is their story' needs to be folded into the middle.
I missed it but I doubt mine was chosen - here goes, if anyone could give me a couple of pointers? Also what software is everyone using? I've got good old Google Docs, which is fine, but feels a bit clunky. 'Ferra' (more sci fi...) Ferra jerked awake, unsure if she’d heard the noise that woke her or merely dreamt it. She froze in her bunk, listening intently, her eyes wide in the gloom. Despite lying still her heart was beating hard, she could feel it in her fingertips, pulsing. Another distant clunk. She held herself and her breathing still, to hear better. Nothing was to be heard but the usual familiar ticks and creaks of Wanderer’s dented hull, still releasing the tremendous heat generated by lift off into the terrible cold of space. She was alone on the beloved old barrel of a ship as it travelled through the vast emptiness of space towards Teide.
Yes, I was also going to say that Rebecca would say that beginning with waking up is a no-go. As an avid reader of Sci-Fi, I'll tell you that I don't have a problem with it, in this case. It doesn't strike me in any particular way. I think you could streamline the passage by skipping the waking up, beginning, instead, with lying still & listening for the sound to happen again, or even with the second occurrence of the sound. For example- "There it was again. A distant clunk. She held herself and her breathing still, to hear better..." Etc.
im sorry but their internet quality is really really bad and they should fix that before even trying to consider doing a YT video. its literally not hard... just disrespectful to the viewers. there were so many interruptions and the voice roboting randomly just gave me an instant headache. there ya go use that to start your novel
Stranger from the Sea irked me. Christ didn't fall from the cross. And I'm not a hardcore Christian, just someone who's read the Bible. The first sentence grammatically suggests she's walking a dead dog.
I am a hardcore Christian, but it didn't bother me. I took from it that his body was simply arranged in a way which made it look like it was Christ's body, fallen from the cross, because, of course, he was lying on the ground. It's a little clunky, and, as John said, Christ on or off the cross is much more symbolic than simply the arrangement of a body, and makes promises that may not be intended about what's coming in the rest of the story.
Rebecca's progressive perspective permeates her critiques. She may hate being told what to do, but when she blames it on men, she loses me. In a previous video she judged a submission insufficiently woke fior the current market. She has no self awareness in this regard; she proudly displays her political correctness. As a result, she's a mother-crashing bore. The men on the show appear to support her wokism, or else lack the necessary testosterone to call her out on any of it...
Why do I need to know your political views as I watch this? Why do you assume everyone shares your views? Liberal privilege? Maybe have some awareness of how divided this country is and consider not making writing critiques political so you don't alienate 50% of the country and, therefore, 50% of your potential audience?
Ima leave something I wrote here even though it's likely no one will ever read it and critique it. I just like feeling participatory. NAGA: Living Legends Genres: Fantasy, Romance, Coming-Of-Age Demographic: YA I wasn’t a huge fan of my best friend’s girlfriend. For multiple reasons. For one, she was a freshman and we were seniors. Thankfully, Tyler hasn’t turned 18 so no serious legal charges could be made. Also she probably repeated a year. But my verdict doesn't change, he was stupid for dating such a stupid child. Especially, when there are many other actually nice and talented people in his life. Heather was her name, and she seemed like a cliché popular bitch from the movies. Tyler, regardless, was head over heels in love with her. Or at least that’s how he acted. I honestly was still hoping that he didn’t truly have such strong feelings. Yet, I shouldn't, no couldn't externalize any of my thoughts. He looked so nervous when he introduced us to each other. His deep mellow voice became several octaves higher than usual and he stumbled over all his words uncharacteristically. As a friend, a best friend, I couldn't silence the voice that finally grew the courage to speak.
The other commenter got it right. You're also completely telling without showing. It's a very big info dump without much clear context of why we should care or what it has to do with our character.
Though my story wasn't chosen, I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you for holding events like this one.
With the “Divorcing Atlanta” one, I actually liked the original more than what the guy suggested. As a reader we already know that inanimate objects can’t physically do anything without someone picking them up, we don’t need that spelled out for us. We know the gun isn’t going to do any of those things by itself (obviously) but as a reader I like the picture it paints when the focus is placed on the gun, it’s more enthralling to me. I think the author meant to place focus there instead of on the character, no matter which three of those things happens the gun will play a major role.
The way they re-worded it sounds weird to me, almost too precise.
Plus, the way the author worded it actually tells us something about the main character, it tells us how much weight is being placed on the gun and not on themselves. It kind of shows us how the character thinks and gives us a peek at them as a person.
Idk, maybe it’s just personal preference. I’m not a professional by any means, but as an avid reader I would have liked the original sentence better.
Especially since it’s in first person and that is how some people think. I absolutely agree that it says something about the character and how he/she is taking away their own responsibility and putting it on the gun and changing that changes the character.
That's the thing about critiques, even by professionals -- their suggestions and edits are often colored by their personal biases. One editor may love what you wrote, while another may not like it at all. Still, if more than one of them suggest similar changes, that's at least worth looking at and giving it an honest assessment. You may not agree with them in the end anyway, but not dismissing them out of hand is more professional and honest. Of course, that's just this amateur unpublished writer's opinion, so worth as much as whatever value is assigned to it.
Wow think each of you for your thoughts. I really try to keep an open mind and receive everyone's thoughts for all its worth. But I agree I wants to evoke the chaotic nature of his mind in this moment. That’s why I went from the visceral to to the emotional in the first paragraph. As the agent and editor know, todays reader has such a short attention span and unless you can put your two fingers in their nostrils and drag them through that first page-you stand to lose them to the next tweet popping up on their phone. The gun is used because I want to pull the reader into the passage long enough to at least get an answer to the question, “will he use the gun?” And just so you know-yes he will. :-)
But thank each of you for your thoughts. To Readsy-wow. What an honor to have you read my words and share your thoughts. This goes on the highlight reel of my writing career.
For those of you who are amateurs I rewrote those first 100 words maybe 50 times. The first version is absolutely dreadful but I’m always looking for ways to make my best even better. IF you’d like to read more of hear a brief audio version please go to my website. PastorTimmothy.com
Wow. As the author of Divorcing Atlanta I thank you guys! Plus for those who commented I thank you as well. I really try to keep an open mind and receive everyone's thoughts for all its worth. I wanted to evoke the chaotic nature of his mind in this moment. That’s why I went from the visceral to to the emotional in the first paragraph. As the agent and editor know, todays reader has such a short attention span and unless you can put your two fingers in their nostrils and drag them through that first page-you run the risk of loosing them to the next tweet popping up on their phone. The gun is used because I want to pull the reader into the passage long enough to at least get an answer to the question, “will he use the gun?” And just so you know-yes he will. :-)
But thank each of you for your thoughts. To Readsy-wow. What an honor to have you read my words and share your thoughts. This goes on the highlight reel of my writing career.
For those of you who are amateurs I rewrote those first 100 words maybe 50 times. The first version is absolutely dreadful but I’m always looking for ways to make my best even better. IF you’d like to read more of hear a brief audio version please go to my website. PastorTimmothy.com
Heading to the site!
@@Yuuppppp Thanks!
@@Yuuppppp Thanks
question regarding the first paragraph's critique.
the reviewer didn't like being told what/how to feel.. but it wasn't the author telling the actual reader what/how to feel, it was the character, in the character's voice and personality, doing the narrating.
giving us a glimpse into how the character thinks - ie, "I know what you're going to say." to me this character assumes the person she's telling her story to is going to have judgement or questions, which in itself shows us about her character; she's thoughtful, embarrassed, uncomfortable, guilty, presumptuous, etc. then she immediately answers our presumed judgment with a, "Nobody forced me." as if divulging more/answering us/defending herself from what the character assumes we'll think. all character building and creating a hook.
so, if the first lines of the first paragraph were to establish the voice and character/personality, shouldn't that be ok? please respond
shes weird. Editor aren't perfect they're all flawed human beings
Glad I can see this later. I was still asleep in bed when this went live.
Me too . . . it was 4.00am in Sydney, Australia!!
I disagree with the prologue comment. I read a lot. I like books with prologues. Most recently A Taste of Sugar by Marisel Vera. I think prologues work well in historical and science fiction. Not all readers are impatient.
It's a stupid soap box that a lot of people have jumped on - when the most successful fiction in a genre (fantasy) has a prologue obviously prologues aren't the problem. Sometimes something needs to happen unrelated to your characters in the beginning of a book that gives the reader an insight another viewpoint couldn't.
Agreed, especially for sci-fi and fantasy.
That’s the beautiful thing about writing! There is always going to be an audience for whatever you want to make, even if that audience is just one individual.
Writers of Friends: "Hey Rebecca, I've got a new script for you called friends"
Rebecca: "Na."
I like the way you conduct your critique videos, whether first lines or first paragraphs. They are concise, to the point, and quite helpful. I recently watched a "first page" critique video and it drove me crazy. Most annoying was she didn't stick to one page, so fewer examples were covered. She suggested changes but, unlike you folks, she didn't explain clearly why the changes were necessary. If I'm watching a critique of someone else's writing, I want it to teach me something. Your videos always accomplish that goal. Thanks.
I'm considering creating a similar kind of channel.
Brilliant. Thank you for sharing your time and wisdom with us. Stay safe and healthy, Nick
Both of these people are so great! They’re so wholesome and have good chemistry together! And I am not the type who ever makes comments like this 😂
I was asleep in Thailand when this was live, but I am here now at the replay thanks.
This is extremely informative as a writer to see the process.
Okay so the whole thing about you not being an exception to the rule is true. Yet one of my favorite things in writing is writing an entire story based off of breaking a rule so that the fact I'm doing something "incorrectly" becomes the highlight of the story. Like one of the short novellas I've written was based on the idea of an exciting climax told via a flashback from before the inciting incident. It's tentatively titled, I Need to Tell You Something About This Path. Ultimately it's probably a bad story, however it's not my worst.
I would love to see more First Line Frenzies with two editors.
This is fantastic! I want more like this now we can focus on other things than the pandemic and politics.
Ooh, can we do the first paragraph one again, this is great, also how do we send stuff in
Was at work when this aired but I was happy to see the recording. Quite helpful especially knowing “Commercial Fiction” is a real genre. Most of my work is Women’s Fiction, however. Thanks for all these wonderful topics and discussions, Reedsy! Hats off to Martin and all the guests.
Thank you for the feedback! Mine was the very first one they talked about--Killing You Softly.
Congratzz
I don’t have any issue with your first paragraph. In fact, I much prefer it as is, compared to what was suggested.
I love these. I hope you have more.
"Seraphyna Night slipped from the palace like a wraith, despite the heavy armor she wore. Normally, she would already have removed it, of course. But this night, she was simply too tired to worry about it."
Um.. Ok.
“Never start a novel with a generalisation…”
🌚🌝
“It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.” - Jane Austen, Pride & Prejudice, 20 million copies sold
😂
Fair. I think Rebecca would say, however, that you're probably not the exception, so you should just follow the rule. I would say that, like all rules, you have to know them before you can bend/break them. But then you can certainly bend/break them.
41:38 One of the reasons most people find novels boring , is because the "show don' t tell" lie, makes them fucking impenetrable. Most normal people, who don't naturally love reading, would MUCH rather read something that is explicitly interesting, than something which relies on implication. TELLING me that it is dangerous is interesting straight away. Making me WORK IT OUT, requires more time than most people are willing devote to a novel. I'm not saying you should dumb the content down, but why must writer types always assume you have to subtle everything up!?
Like all rules, this one is ok to bend/break. I think that the true path is to learn the rule, practice the rule, then, when you're quite comfortable with it, break the hell out of it, should you do choose.
But what if a prologue sets up the antagonist? It would seem odd to me to have chapter 1 told through the eyes of the antagonist and chapter 2 onwards told through the eyes of the protagonist. It feels more natural to have the seperation that a prologue provides, given the gap between both perspectives (that takes several chapters to close to a collision). Moving the prologue to chapter 1 feels like an unnatural combo breaker.
I agree! My sci-fi begins with a prologue that sets up the antagonist, and Chapter 1 introduces you to the protagonist. This method works best, especially if the antagonist isn't going to be seen again for a while.
It's only their opinions because a prologue can be a wonderful addition depending on how your overall story is written. Doesn't mean they are right. Writing is subjective. If my novel didn't have a prologue, it wouldn't be as exceptional because it starts off with the protagonists love of his life's death from her POV. This also leaves a mystery of what the hell happened. Lol. So, I'd take this person's advice with a huge grain of salt. Readers are your audience, so if your reader loves it, then that's what matters. The only time you don't need one is when multiple people say your story may work without it.
At what point should we care about the genre of the book we write? After draft 2 (after all the plot issues have worked out and we start to care about line editing)? Or should we care at plot level? I just try to tell a great story and don’t pay attention to the genre, but I know I have to care at some point.
It depends on the genre. Ha ha! That's unhelpful, I know. Some (most?) genres have certain formatting expectations that go along with them, & some of those may need to be in the author's mind from the beginning. It's possible, however, that all of these things can be adjusted in editing or in a second draft.
Re: The Romance Genre: The protagonists must meet within the first two pages and it must end happily. Check with the Romance Writers of America. VERY specific criteria.
I agree on the HEA, Kim, but meeting within the first two pages isn't a requirement. RWA is a great resource but definitely not the be-all end-all authority... honestly, it seems strange that they would put a page requirement on a meet-cute, given the many wonderful titles that violate this edict.
If i want to use a prologue in a future book i will.
Anyone who has had to grade papers knows, "bullying has existed since the dawn of time" is the introduction to a bad undergrad essay.
The second line starts with "Nowadays...."
that is the starter line of an essay I would write when I was 15 lol. Like NO, I would not read a book that started off like that. Their critique for the first paragraph was also kind dumb. As a reader, yes I do get when it gets annoying when the author tells you what to feel but that wasn't the case there. and lol no she is a weirdo for saying "I don't like that first line because I'm a woman" like what? I'm a woman and that's such a weird thing to say. No one thinks that. I think that first entry was FINE. The guy seemed too passive and intimidated by the woman to really give any opinion
@@saorihirai4492She would've been more accurate to say she didn't like that first line, because she's a feminist.
Whenever a subgenre of science fiction was mentioned, you pointed it out as a problem. However, historical romance did not receive the same comment, and historical is definitely an adjective. I'm also wondering about other subgenres like urban fantasy or high fantasy, which have been referenced before and have not been corrected to simply "fantasy". This is inconsistent and confusing to those of us who are not insiders. Which subgenres do you see as legitimate? Is there a list somewhere so that people outside of the publishing industry can understand when it's okay to put the adjective in there versus when it's considered incorrect?
Good question.
Historical is the setting, not a sub genre. You could have a historical urban sci-fi or historical young adult romance etc.
I agree with the follow through on the Christ description, that could be huge for a narrative - finding someone laying like that
Sour patch watermelon is amazing
Just thought I'd put my first paragraph here since I didn't get to submit it earlier. Feedback is much appreciated!
Title: EXPOSED
Genre: YA Suspense
_Live a little._ Those words echoed in her head, louder than the blood pounding in her ear. If she could have, Charlie would have scoffed. But she was upside down, in her ex-boyfriend’s new car, in the city, at 1 in the morning. She was upside down, spine bent at an odd angle, and she had landed just shy of breaking her neck.
Is Charlie the mc, her boyfriend, or a third person. I’m assuming it’s the mc but it did take me a couple of reads to do that.
I’m also assuming she ends of paralyzed due to the damage to her spine so I think that could be a very interesting read. I watched a movie based on true events about a girl who became paralyzed after getting hit by a car and it was emotional and fascinating.
Oh but it’s suspense so nm. But I didn’t really get that from reading your paragraph.
my notes (not a professional):
- why is she unable to scoff? scoffing doesn't require a lot of muscles to do. Also I think the second sentence kind of makes light of the situation she is in. I think it would work better if you expressed her fear or panic for her abduction.
- write out the number 1
-does spine bent at an odd angle mean that it's broken?
-you're repeating upside down and it kind of slows down the tension
- "she had landed" pulls the reader back into the past, i think it would work better if instead she remembers how she almost broke her neck or write about the pain she still feels from this.
@@StarBoundAngel Thanks for the feedback! Yes, Charlie is the MC, but she does not end up paralysed. The reason her spine is bent is explained in the next paragraph of the chapter (which I will paste in another comment here).
@@tamarleahh.2150 Thanks for reading it! The reason why she can't scoff is further explained later on in the text and the beginning is meant to sound detached from her to show what may have happened, I used it as a bit of a shroud to the reader on purpose. I did just realise about the tense change in the second line, but the end is meant to be that way (I might just move the words around a little since you suggested). She hasn't been kidnapped, rather she is in a car wreck involving her ex-boyfriend.
The first eight and a half minutes of this video are hilarious. I love how she says peanut m&m's are basically a protein bar. So cute how embarrassed they are when the hosts had to reel back from their candy conversation back to the point of the video. Good stuff!😂
Why are some people in the chat so impatient and rude? If you don't want to sit through certain things, just watch the replay and skip.
FRIENDS has aged perfectly for people who have a sense of humor lol it’s still hilarious.
Hilarious jokes, great character writing, and awesome physical comedy. Those who are offended by it are missing out. Shall we start a go-fund-me to pay for the removal of sticks from their behinds?
One of the most cleverly written sitcoms ever created.
Some of the best and most consistent writing in the history of sit-coms.
A pyramid tipped on its side is a pyramid.
Thank you for this comment. It made my day! I legit lol'd
It would also be very helpful, I think, if you were to choose some that you felt were really good and explain what makes them good. Knowing what makes something good/great/exceptional can be as useful as hearing what is wrong.
They did that though?
Although the stream was informative and entertaining, and the chat lively, the hosts didn't get to my submission so I'm putting it here for perusal and opinions. Instead of taking advantage of being able to post a longer excerpt, I'll keep it to the same length as the submission criteria and post the same thing I submitted.
Title: Jacked (working title)
Genre: Sci-Fi
Neven Sievers felt his body growing colder as his life’s blood poured onto the deck plating and pooled around him.
The pain still registered, but it was more of an afterthought, faint and in the background. He gazed upward as an indistinct shadow fell across his vision and reached towards him. Fear gripped him and held him immobile as surely as if the gravity had been increased tenfold.
DJ I'm no expert but it seems to me this prose is flowing lyrically, when it should be a series of short and sharp jabs which could give it more of the sense of urgency it needs. And could terror be a better word than fear?
@@shelleydarktravel1666 Interesting take on lyrical versus staccato. Maybe. You may be right about terror versus fear. It's impossible to convey the entire context of the scene in the first paragraph. All I can do is begin the scene, but the entire context is that Neven is investigating a person's murder and the scene is him reliving that person's last moments via a neural recording.
@@Phaite A neural recording. That's intriguing! Makes it more important that it feels really visceral, to increase the shock of finding out it's not even him dying.
@@shelleydarktravel1666 I'll investigate a revision and see how it feels to me. You may have something.
As a reader, I am very intrigued by your immersive scene. You didn't tell but showed the character's imagined experience and situation.
One thing to keep in mind is filtering words or phrases that drag your brilliant sentences down. You may already know what filtering is, but if not, there's many videos giving its defintion. Learning what filter words and phrases were instantly improved my own writing.
Please continue this story. The concept is great!
Okay. So tell me how this really works?! I live in Australia, booked to be here, but could not connect. What goes on?
LOL, Rebecca, do you find it morally repugnant to use dialogue as an early description tool.
John was great!
What happened to Joseph and his ten brothers?
They threw him into a hole, then sold him into slavery. They tore his distinctive multi-colored coat/robe & put goat's blood all over it, and then they gave it to their dad & told him Joseph had been killed by a lion.
@@bnjmnwst wow. Why? Jealousy?
@@dcle944 Definitely! Exactly right. Check out Genesis 37 for the full story.
As my wasn't chosen I wanted to submit it here, just wanted to see everyone's reaction.
The Warrior Princess
Fantasy
Maybe, some people become sad when they think about the persons who are gone, but she was a different piece altogether, she felt proud whenever she thought about her mom, not everyone can do what her mom did, not everyone can first be a queen and then a mom. She knew, on a simple instinct, her mom can wrap her in a blanket and run away, leaving all her people to die bit she didn't. But she was proud, because her mom had taken the path which was less taken, she chose her kingdom, her people. And she wanted to take the path less taken too, to care for her people, to be a queen.
The first sentence is very long. You can probably say these things in fewer words and in a clearer way. Also I'm a bit confused by her mom pulling her into a blanket but also choosing her ppl over her private interests. I think this would work better if you first describe how the people saw her and then add her perspective. "To the people she was a heroic queen, to me she was mom. " also could you add some action in this? Is she about to be crowned? Is the crown heavy on her whereas her mom wore it with ease? Just some ideas, I'm not a professional
I like the contrast as a hook. A bit confused about ‘she’. Sometimes I need to think to realize which she you are referencing. The story/title sounds cool. I think it was from hanna lee kidder I learnt one should be careful with writing «some people think» in the beginning of a story, because people dont connect easily if it is too general reference so early in a story (or maybe it was reedsy who said it). Also, «she felt» and «she knew» are filter words, which is ok, but most authors today tend to like writing in deep pov or without filter words, so maybe some people feel like this is like a draft verdion. for the actual story I think it sounds cool. Queens sacrificing herself for people seems like something a queen is expected to do, yet I guess it might not only be so. So I wonder what type of sacrifice made this queen different.
:)
My take. I am not an editor, just like these types of channels i guess..sorry if this is bad critique, i hope its helpful
A lot lizard is a sex worker at truck stops. Honestly a terrible term imo lol
John from Nuneaton Warks in the English Midlands.
I'm a bit disappointed ... given I sat at my computer for an hour and a half, I feel that maybe there could have been more 'first liners' talked about. Some were talked about for too long. Maybe a different format, say in point form and with some pre-prepared alternatives written below the submission being talked about, would have been more useful than a chit-chat conversation. I hate to nit-pick and I usually don't, however I was expecting a lot more information and advice. I would also have like to have seen a couple of really good submissions with points on why they are so good, even though they still have a couple of flaws. I learn by example and comparison, so I can actually read and see the difference between other's submissions and my own. Sorry that this sounds so negative because I did get a lot out of it and picked up lots of really good tips and advice, I actually enjoyed your chit chat but it just crept into the time limit a bit much. Given all of my complaining here, thank you heaps for putting in your time to go through so many submissions and then share with us ... it would have been difficult to choose just a few out of so many and I appreciate your time and work. Kind regards, Janet :)
PS:
Here is my own submission ... just putting my "money where my mouth is" and open myself up to criticism . . .
Standing at the cliff edge, surrounded by frenzied lightening strikes and bellowing thunder, Shirra revelled in the wild storm raging around her. She held her ground on strong, brown legs with her arms up in the air, palms upward, as if offering herself to the gods and felt more alive than ever. Crazy wind and driving rain blew a mass of wet chocolate brown hair around her face and threatened to blow her into the oblivion of the gorge below. Behind her Luke yelled out trying to be heard over the commotion of the storm. Another clap of thunder and she was gone. The storm began to ease as suddenly as it had roared to life. Overhead, a deafening shriek and the shape of huge wings against the grey clouds brought Luke out from under the huge tree he had been sheltering under. He stood on shaking legs, watching the creature fly out of sight and wondered how the hell he was going to explain it all to Shirra’s family.
*Please feel free to 'go troppo' about it :)
They can't do evert single one, and for the ones they did, they wanted to go in-depth.
3 things: 1) Lightening is "getting lighter." You're looking for "lightning."
2) Why do we need to know the colors of her legs and hair? We know nothing about Luke's looks.
3) The echo of "under," as Luke comes out from under the tree, is problematic. Saying the same word twice in that short a space is repetitive. Instead, say "as he came out from under the large tree where he'd been sheltering."
I am going to post mine here as well for critique
Title: Ash Underwood String Theory to Hell
YA Fantasy
Someone famous once said life's a garden dig it someone a little more honest said life's shit grab a shovel. This is their story.
Matthew I'm no expert, but I love this beginning. I think that the 'grab the shovel' bit is the great punchline, so like a good joke, should be last. 'This is their story' needs to be folded into the middle.
there's punctuation missing. Also I assume the title contains the subtitle as well? Otherwise quite funny
You almost entirely passed up punctuation. It makes it unintelligible without rereading it a few times.
I missed it but I doubt mine was chosen - here goes, if anyone could give me a couple of pointers? Also what software is everyone using? I've got good old Google Docs, which is fine, but feels a bit clunky.
'Ferra' (more sci fi...)
Ferra jerked awake, unsure if she’d heard the noise that woke her or merely dreamt it. She froze in her bunk, listening intently, her eyes wide in the gloom. Despite lying still her heart was beating hard, she could feel it in her fingertips, pulsing. Another distant clunk. She held herself and her breathing still, to hear better. Nothing was to be heard but the usual familiar ticks and creaks of Wanderer’s dented hull, still releasing the tremendous heat generated by lift off into the terrible cold of space. She was alone on the beloved old barrel of a ship as it travelled through the vast emptiness of space towards Teide.
Good work! The prose is great, though given their remarks on the stream, they might take issue with the waking up as an intro.
Yes, I was also going to say that Rebecca would say that beginning with waking up is a no-go. As an avid reader of Sci-Fi, I'll tell you that I don't have a problem with it, in this case. It doesn't strike me in any particular way. I think you could streamline the passage by skipping the waking up, beginning, instead, with lying still & listening for the sound to happen again, or even with the second occurrence of the sound. For example- "There it was again. A distant clunk. She held herself and her breathing still, to hear better..." Etc.
im sorry but their internet quality is really really bad and they should fix that before even trying to consider doing a YT video. its literally not hard... just disrespectful to the viewers. there were so many interruptions and the voice roboting randomly just gave me an instant headache. there ya go use that to start your novel
Hi Bernadette Longueira from South Africa
41:26 and there's your TDS right there.
Aww, did she cast mild shade on your favourite reality TV star?
@@xensonar9652 Not my President. But must hatred of him intrude everything? I like to watch writing videos.
@@jonnforest3882 You have a very low threshold for what you consider hatred and derangement.
@@xensonar9652 Do I? What a presumptive expert you must be. Go troll elsewhere.
@@jonnforest3882 I'm not presuming anything. You literally time-stamped what you consider hateful and deranged.
Stranger from the Sea irked me. Christ didn't fall from the cross. And I'm not a hardcore Christian, just someone who's read the Bible. The first sentence grammatically suggests she's walking a dead dog.
I am a hardcore Christian, but it didn't bother me. I took from it that his body was simply arranged in a way which made it look like it was Christ's body, fallen from the cross, because, of course, he was lying on the ground. It's a little clunky, and, as John said, Christ on or off the cross is much more symbolic than simply the arrangement of a body, and makes promises that may not be intended about what's coming in the rest of the story.
Rebecca's progressive perspective permeates her critiques. She may hate being told what to do, but when she blames it on men, she loses me. In a previous video she judged a submission insufficiently woke fior the current market. She has no self awareness in this regard; she proudly displays her political correctness. As a result, she's a mother-crashing bore. The men on the show appear to support her wokism, or else lack the necessary testosterone to call her out on any of it...
😂 lot lizard
Ask the truckers what it is 🤣
8:20 You're welcome.
Why do I need to know your political views as I watch this? Why do you assume everyone shares your views? Liberal privilege? Maybe have some awareness of how divided this country is and consider not making writing critiques political so you don't alienate 50% of the country and, therefore, 50% of your potential audience?
Very much agreed! This is the very reason why I'm publishing my own books.
Ima leave something I wrote here even though it's likely no one will ever read it and critique it. I just like feeling participatory.
NAGA: Living Legends
Genres: Fantasy, Romance, Coming-Of-Age
Demographic: YA
I wasn’t a huge fan of my best friend’s girlfriend. For multiple reasons. For one, she was a freshman and we were seniors. Thankfully, Tyler hasn’t turned 18 so no serious legal charges could be made. Also she probably repeated a year. But my verdict doesn't change, he was stupid for dating such a stupid child. Especially, when there are many other actually nice and talented people in his life. Heather was her name, and she seemed like a cliché popular bitch from the movies. Tyler, regardless, was head over heels in love with her. Or at least that’s how he acted. I honestly was still hoping that he didn’t truly have such strong feelings. Yet, I shouldn't, no couldn't externalize any of my thoughts. He looked so nervous when he introduced us to each other. His deep mellow voice became several octaves higher than usual and he stumbled over all his words uncharacteristically. As a friend, a best friend, I couldn't silence the voice that finally grew the courage to speak.
You slip in and out of past tense. I think the instances of present tense here are accidental and should be altered.
The other commenter got it right. You're also completely telling without showing. It's a very big info dump without much clear context of why we should care or what it has to do with our character.
I didn't appreciate the condescending political talk
Voicey is another way of saying lumpy to many words