The Mazda CX-5 is genuinely one of the best looking cars in today's market. And I mean car as in any automobile (car, SUV, sedan etc) Glad to see someone actually cares about quality, performance AND aesthetics.
Agreed. Everything in this car is done tastefully, not too shiny but neither bland. To be honest I get the feeling if I had to I wouldn't be out of place from my Datsun because the CX5 really looks premium.
Agreed about the sexy styling, but actual SUV practicality and objective performance is well behind the grocery-getter CRV. www.motortrend.com/cars/honda/cr-v/2017/2017-honda-cr-v-vs-2017-mazda-cx-5-comparison-review/
Some constructive criticism: Wish you guys would include torque figures alongside your horsepower numbers. Displaying just the hp can be very misleading especially with vehicles like SUV's where the torque number is arguably more important than raw hp numbers. Love your vids in any case.
Torque isn't important for Any of these except the Jeep Compass. These are not off-road vehicles. All of these are designed for people who can't bring themselves to buy a station wagon and just want the space, high seating position, and traction control to go to the grocery store to buy toilet paper and milk when it starts to snow.
One key point KBB keep missing is that RAV4 now comes with a Hybrid trim, that gives better fuel economy in city with AWD, has higher horse power and more torque then CRV. Such a crucial point.
For such a fresh comparison, why are you not looking at the VW Tiguan??! It's one of the few that's all new and has undergone massive changes. It could have easily replaced the aging Rav4 (although I get the 'must include Toyota' need) or at the very least the sportage.
This woefully incomplete list is clearly evidence that KBB only compares vehicles that the auto makers send them. CR continues to be the only reliable source for complete, unbiased reviews.
Their stupid KIA logo is the reason I won't buy a Kia. Like I had a sportage match my budget with all of the features I wanted, but the Kia badge just doesn't scream pay 350$ a month for me!
Alexey Zhiltsov if you can't explain it then why wasting time here. I drove all these SUVs but then decided to go with Forester as it has more stable and nicer ride due to its low CG boxer engine, as well as it capability to get out of snow because of its drive mechanism and high ground clearance. Your comparison with F1 or off road is not logical as you do need traction for normal driving during adverse weather condition. So start planing ahead!
Alexey Zhiltsov so you are actually basing your judgement by watching videos and not by test driving. As I've said that I test drove all of these before making decision, so to some of your points that you learnt after watching these videos. 2017 Forester is much quieter because of better insulation. They do have cross traffic alert with standard backup camera. If looks are of concern then you should be driving a space cab, which you can't have. From 2019 onwards Forester is expected to get a new change over. If you are focusing more on infotainment then it means you are a distracted driver. It's infotainment is simple yet practical. So do some proper research.
My Brother just bought a brand new Cherokee, it should have been in this comparison instead of the Compass because the Compass is in a defferent class, his Cherokee is REALLY nice and it was only 34K
We had a rental 2018 Chevrolet Equinox,it didn't have standard rear vents. Also the whole dash was squeaky and the base 4 cylinder was gutless. Car only had 4000 miles.
The Hyundai Tucson does better than some of these and gives the owner more features for lower cost than all of the choices in your comparison. What gives?
i hate to say this but the car feels cheap and it would be left in the dust because of how bad the quality was plus it cost alot of money for that type of quality. P.S i LOVE VWS they are so good but they messed up the 2018 one
Hell no. We drove one and it was tight and uncomfortable. Out of the ones we drove including the Mazda, Nissan Rogue, chevy equinox, and RAV4 the rogue was the most comfortable with the highest build quality of an interior. The ride was also much better while it was smooth it also handled well and not sloppy.
As much as I like Mazda's zoom zoom ethos, if I'm gonna get a utility vehicle, the features and capabilities surrounding that will be first and foremost on my list. I can always make my choice of vehicle more zoom zoomy with suspension, wheels/tires and the like but it's hard to add utility in the same manner.
Want to like the Honda, but there are some strange details like some styling "bumps and humps", ugly wheels and the silly taillight lenses that stick out.
Honda should be at the bottom and Chevy should be at top. Let's be honest here Honda doesn't offer teen driving safety & despite their efficiency and resale vale it's still doesn't offer the gas or diesel variants. Also it's missing a few others that should have came with it.
I would have wished to see a Fiat 500x & a Mitsubishi Outlander in this comparison they may have not met the criteria for being in this video but these SUVS are on my buy list next year my car is paid off and I am going compact SUV shopping February 2018
I bought a 2016 CRV and we could have gotten the 17 as it was just coming to dealers.. I love the new interior over mine but you have to choose the base trim if you don't want a turbo.. My experience is turbos are not reliable vehicles and 5 hp different, WHY?
Guys I need your advice I am interested in the new Jeep Compass. It costs around $25,000/- where I live. The compass is a fun drive. Only problem is the slow engine, which I don t mind. However, I also found a used 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee for almost the same price and has 30,000 KM on it. I love the grand cherokee. It has a lot of space and engine is great. To be honest, I don t need that much power in the engine but I love it. My only problem is that it is used and not safe. The new compass is rated "Top Safety Pick" by the IIHS. I will be getting married soon. I feel like i will be needing extra room for the baby stroller and other shoppings/groceries. The compass does not provide that room. I have a 2014 jeep compass and I understand. What do you guys think?
Newest and most popular you said?.... yet no nissan rogue 😭? Come on its best selling suv in usa market as off 2017. Plus no Tiguan Edge, Forester, Tucson etc... Come on guys ur slacking here :(
Ro0ster sir please check some facts. Also rav 4 is close but its 3rd best selling suv in usa :) www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/04/usa-best-selling-suvs-crossovers-march-2017-complete-top-20.html?m=1
There are 4 absolute goods, and 2 absolute bads. KBB, are you showing a bit of biased-ness?However, this is how I would rank them.1-CX5TIE FOR 2-Sportage and CRV4-Equinox5-RAV46-CompassI do have to say, anything made by Fiat-Chrysler is bound for trouble in the very near future, only going downhill from there.
So many of these types of test never take into consideration cost of ownership and rate of repairs..... several of these would not even show up on the radar if it was... Just my opinion
Can I ask why the Rav4 Hybrid never gets included in these comparisons? It's nominal fee would make it very appetizing for buyers when they see it compared to others in the market.
christopher kibler I know. I wish hybrid options, if they make the vehicle better in some way were used in these comparisons so viewers are able to see how they stack up.
Maybe good to the buyers pocket book at the pump. But hybrid batteries are the worst inventions. The smelting process is destroying the earth at a higher rate than hundreds of hummers running at once
christopher kibler that would be incorrect. I would definitely read up on the overall affect of hybrids. You may feel like hybrid production is this terrible thing but facts are in their favor. science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/does-hybrid-car-production-waste-offset-hybrid-benefits2.htm
Volkswagen Tiguan, Audi Q2/Q3, Mercedes GLA/GLC, BMW X1? Too expensive for you to test or what? How about Hyundai Tucson, Seat Ateca, Suzuki Vitara? Dacia Duster or Dacia Sandero Stepway? Please do a part 2!
Dacia may not be available in the US but the rest is. And yes, German cars may be luxurious, but that doesn't mean they are not compact SUVs. Note that the title says compact SUV comparison, not affordable American Korean and Japanese compact SUV comparison. And they also included the Jeep Compass which is way smaller than its competitors so why not also include the cars I just mentioned
The most serious looking is Jeep Compass, also the most effective and reliable 4x4 system. The rest of competition looks like city cars for girls and hipsters. Another worth serious candid would be Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross 4x4. Subaru Forester also very good if you at OK with its looks...
I am so surprised these are classed as "compact SUV's". In Australia, most of these are classed as mid-sized and even some as large SUV's. Although, the US does have larger cars than Australia does, so i guess it makes sense.
Mazda handles well onroad, but that comes at the price of offroad comfort. Offroad ride is important to me, so for me it's either the Jeep or the RAV4, or maybe the Sportage. I test drove the Sportage once and I really liked the nice interior, peppy engine, and smooth ride. I don't like CVTs, so Honda CRV is out.
Jeep and Mazda are the most stylish is my opinion but the best all around package to me is the CR-V
The Mazda CX-5 is genuinely one of the best looking cars in today's market. And I mean car as in any automobile (car, SUV, sedan etc) Glad to see someone actually cares about quality, performance AND aesthetics.
Jorge R no the Toyota RAV4 is the best looking
Agreed. Everything in this car is done tastefully, not too shiny but neither bland. To be honest I get the feeling if I had to I wouldn't be out of place from my Datsun because the CX5 really looks premium.
Agreed about the sexy styling, but actual SUV practicality and objective performance is well behind the grocery-getter CRV. www.motortrend.com/cars/honda/cr-v/2017/2017-honda-cr-v-vs-2017-mazda-cx-5-comparison-review/
J R fuck no! The cx9 is 100× better!
No applecarplay and storage is very limited
Some constructive criticism: Wish you guys would include torque figures alongside your horsepower numbers. Displaying just the hp can be very misleading especially with vehicles like SUV's where the torque number is arguably more important than raw hp numbers. Love your vids in any case.
Torque isn't important for Any of these except the Jeep Compass. These are not off-road vehicles. All of these are designed for people who can't bring themselves to buy a station wagon and just want the space, high seating position, and traction control to go to the grocery store to buy toilet paper and milk when it starts to snow.
I only watch this channel because of him I like his way of explaining things in a fun goofy way it’s entertaining and informative.
So basically get the Mazda or Honda. Saved you all 10 minutes :)
Google it Never a Honda. Definitely Kia, maybe Mazda, but Honda is horrrriibbllee
or the chevy...
Or Toyota.
Toyota or mazda
@@jaredshelton4718 Which year?
I stopped watching after the Mazda review. Mazda is good enough for me!
Why didn't you include the Ford Escape? Good or bad it still fits into the compact SUV category.
Never gonna buy a compact SUV, just come for these guys. Honestly just the best.
I will take the sportage any day!
And the best is:
The one you like the most.
Goodness.
Which is code for the Chevrolet Equinox
One key point KBB keep missing is that RAV4 now comes with a Hybrid trim, that gives better fuel economy in city with AWD, has higher horse power and more torque then CRV. Such a crucial point.
You can't compare a hybrid to other non-hybrids
For such a fresh comparison, why are you not looking at the VW Tiguan??! It's one of the few that's all new and has undergone massive changes. It could have easily replaced the aging Rav4 (although I get the 'must include Toyota' need) or at the very least the sportage.
the interior of the Mazda...definitely best in class
For girls and hipsters...
Gey
@@lulolee5325 what do you like most?
@@jesuschristislord77733 what do you like most
@@nadersharif43 naturally aspirated engine, rear wheel drive, 6-speed manual transmission.
This woefully incomplete list is clearly evidence that KBB only compares vehicles that the auto makers send them.
CR continues to be the only reliable source for complete, unbiased reviews.
Why doesn’t Kia do something with that cheap looking emblem?
And jeep?
Their stupid KIA logo is the reason I won't buy a Kia. Like I had a sportage match my budget with all of the features I wanted, but the Kia badge just doesn't scream pay 350$ a month for me!
Dang I guess they saw your comment 😂
Honda CR-V for me!! Hondas are the way to go!!
I just hate the crv rear end 😪 getting a 2018 gsx 2.5l awd cx5 on Monday tho 😀 would've loved the diesel tho
I love the Honda CR-V great job
Why no Subaru
May be true, but is more practical then any of these vehicle specially on snow/ice.
Alexey Zhiltsov regardless of features, subarus awd system is a engineering marvel. Far better than any other available.
Alexey Zhiltsov if you can't explain it then why wasting time here. I drove all these SUVs but then decided to go with Forester as it has more stable and nicer ride due to its low CG boxer engine, as well as it capability to get out of snow because of its drive mechanism and high ground clearance. Your comparison with F1 or off road is not logical as you do need traction for normal driving during adverse weather condition. So start planing ahead!
Alexey Zhiltsov so you are actually basing your judgement by watching videos and not by test driving. As I've said that I test drove all of these before making decision, so to some of your points that you learnt after watching these videos. 2017 Forester is much quieter because of better insulation. They do have cross traffic alert with standard backup camera. If looks are of concern then you should be driving a space cab, which you can't have. From 2019 onwards Forester is expected to get a new change over. If you are focusing more on infotainment then it means you are a distracted driver. It's infotainment is simple yet practical. So do some proper research.
Alexey Zhiltsov I live in Utah where you can commute in 1 to 2 ft of snow. I have nothing but praise for our 2016 Rav 4.
What happened to the Ford Escape !?
Hey KBB! What about the Hyundai Tucson? In which place that one would be if you were to included in this video?
I would put it top 5 or six
Charles allen jr 👍🏼
Lol, you guys tore apart the compass.
Aakash Bhargava lol yup
JEEP NEEDS TO STOP MAKING CHEAP CARS
Make the switch to Honda/Mazda yo.
Tbh, I'd also recommend checking out the Hyundai.
When it comes to off road or if you live in the middle of nowhere the Jeep Compass trailhawk is the only way to go in this segment
Compass is a joke grand cherokee is the only good one lol
The most entertaining car reviewers !
Mazda, Toyota and Chevrolet as my favourites🙂
My Brother just bought a brand new Cherokee, it should have been in this comparison instead of the Compass because the Compass is in a defferent class, his Cherokee is REALLY nice and it was only 34K
Mazda CX-5 is always the winner
I like humorous bits in the review. Yeah, and what about Subaru Forester, Huyndai Tuscon and Mitsubishi Eclipse?
We had a rental 2018 Chevrolet Equinox,it didn't have standard rear vents. Also the whole dash was squeaky and the base 4 cylinder was gutless. Car only had 4000 miles.
Silent Russian thats american cars for ya
Silent Russian you basically had a 2013 model so this comment is irrelevant
Tino Miller
So 2013-2018 are the same?
That was not an 18 it was a 17all new Equinoxes have rear vents
Silent Russian bruh its a rental car they get abuse lol
The Hyundai Tucson does better than some of these and gives the owner more features for lower cost than all of the choices in your comparison. What gives?
Kia sorento in this class is the best
Hemen Kareamg that's a midsize suv
How about the 2018 volkswagen tiguan?
i hate to say this but the car feels cheap and it would be left in the dust because of how bad the quality was plus it cost alot of money for that type of quality. P.S i LOVE VWS they are so good but they messed up the 2018 one
My top five Compact SUV's are 1) Honda CR-V; 2) Mazda CX5; 3) Kia Sportage; 4) Hyundai Tucson; 5) Ford Escape
Charles allen jr I LOVE THE rouge
Cvt=7 speed automatic?
why would you leave out the top selling compact suv of 2017 thus far, the nissan rogue
Ike Phipps because they're bias to Honda.
top selling because they combine sales of the compact rogue and the subcompact rogue sport
Ike Phipps top selling in if you count fleet sales lol. The CR-V and RAV4 lead consumer sales.
Joshua Johnson not really. The CR-V is on a brand new platform so it will be better than the others which are a bit outdated
TheHydraccana no they don't, brother.. go look at their financial statements.
Why didn't they do an Armrest comfort breakdown . . .j/k you rock Micah love all the KBB videos
$35k for a Jeep is crazy, let alone a Compass.
If anything that should be the most for a loaded Jeep Grand Cherokee, but that's more like $40k-$45k, forget the Overland or SRT8, lol
Best review channel!
Mazda CX-5 >>> other compact SUVs
Shell Casing I have the 2013 cx5. Best car I've driven (that wasn't a sports car)
Hell no. We drove one and it was tight and uncomfortable. Out of the ones we drove including the Mazda, Nissan Rogue, chevy equinox, and RAV4 the rogue was the most comfortable with the highest build quality of an interior. The ride was also much better while it was smooth it also handled well and not sloppy.
As much as I like Mazda's zoom zoom ethos, if I'm gonna get a utility vehicle, the features and capabilities surrounding that will be first and foremost on my list. I can always make my choice of vehicle more zoom zoomy with suspension, wheels/tires and the like but it's hard to add utility in the same manner.
Shell Casing CX5 is slow as shit
ua-cam.com/video/TaZ7HeLmTj4/v-deo.html
Kia Sportage is the best
Crv is the way to go but only time will
Tell how the new turbo engine last
LiquidSm0ke CVT is killing the car
la10sooony I wish they offered a 6 speed auto
You didn’t even mention that the rav4 can be had as a hybrid and fuel economy beats the CRV 1.5T
Only reason Rogue is one of the top sellers is because it's cheap...period.
Tek z It’s more expensive than the CR-V... sooooo, you’re wrong.
Want to like the Honda, but there are some strange details like some styling "bumps and humps", ugly wheels and the silly taillight lenses that stick out.
Audi Q series though, mom owns a Q5 and its amazing. Got the sporty feel and also the conveniences of an SUV
do a full size suv video
Really annoying listing base prices when 21k can jump to 35k! Price as tested needs to be listed instead.
Why is everyone crazy for the Mazda CX 5? I found it to have a cramped backseat and the pedals were too close together.
1 Honda
2 Mazda
3 Toyota
4 Chevy
5 kia
6 Jeep
Mr. Ash Honda should be at the bottom. Kia should be at the top, there I fixed your list for you
Na... Don't think so
Na... Don't think so, this is my opinion
Honda should be at the bottom and Chevy should be at top. Let's be honest here Honda doesn't offer teen driving safety & despite their efficiency and resale vale it's still doesn't offer the gas or diesel variants. Also it's missing a few others that should have came with it.
Tino Miller Chevy isn't as reliable as the Honda buddy
So how do they in adverse conditions or off road?
No Nissan Rogue??
Reubin Bagares (No Nissan Rogue Sports, I mean Qashqaiiii!? The new one, the one to fight the new CX-5, Compass,,,
Reubin Bagares I
I watched this for rogue
I would have wished to see a Fiat 500x & a Mitsubishi Outlander in this comparison they may have not met the criteria for being in this video but these SUVS are on my buy list next year my car is paid off and I am going compact SUV shopping February 2018
If I don't like the way it looks then I'm not buying it!
WHERE is the Hyundai Tuscon and Subaru Forester in these comparisons ?
I bought a 2016 CRV and we could have gotten the 17 as it was just coming to dealers.. I love the new interior over mine but you have to choose the base trim if you don't want a turbo.. My experience is turbos are not reliable vehicles and 5 hp different, WHY?
Kia Sportage. Woo!
Drew Croft I think the Kia I'd hideous, but that's just my opinion. I respect your thoughts.
I think it looks like shit also (not too bad though). I think people are more into its features than the looks.
nah im into the 7year warranty.
JK
The equinox is my favorite 😂
Guys I need your advice
I am interested in the new Jeep Compass. It costs around $25,000/- where I live. The compass is a fun drive. Only problem is the slow engine, which I don t mind.
However, I also found a used 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee for almost the same price and has 30,000 KM on it. I love the grand cherokee. It has a lot of space and engine is great. To be honest, I don t need that much power in the engine but I love it. My only problem is that it is used and not safe. The new compass is rated "Top Safety Pick" by the IIHS.
I will be getting married soon. I feel like i will be needing extra room for the baby stroller and other shoppings/groceries. The compass does not provide that room. I have a 2014 jeep compass and I understand.
What do you guys think?
Also what Jeep compass is this because any 2017 I look up looks literally nothing like it really
I don’t get why the compas has led and halogen running lights
The only emotion CX5 would be is buyers remorse. CRV is the best looking, fastest, most cargo space, and it has the highest resale value.
what about the jeep compass what is the negative in it ?
Honda CR-V is the *only* one worth buying.
How about the Mitsubishi and Hyundai?
Does a plumbus come standard on any of these? I mean, I know everyone has a plumbus, but still.
Is the Mazda cx-5 reliable?
You skipped an important capability for some.....towing. The Equinox with the 2.0L turbo blows them all out of the water with 3500lbs of towing....
Absolutely delicious morsel of automotive info
Newest and most popular you said?.... yet no nissan rogue 😭? Come on its best selling suv in usa market as off 2017. Plus no Tiguan Edge, Forester, Tucson etc... Come on guys ur slacking here :(
OutOfThisWorldTV best selling SUV in 2017 is the RAV4, and it's also the best selling car of 2017.
Ro0ster sir please check some facts. Also rav 4 is close but its 3rd best selling suv in usa :) www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/04/usa-best-selling-suvs-crossovers-march-2017-complete-top-20.html?m=1
and its so outdated, over priced and looks ugly... i think alot of americans are just loyal to toyota in general.
WylunCustoms a lot of Americans are loyal to Mercedes Benz, BMW and Chevy
So the Jeep is more capable for off road duty? Or not really?
There are 4 absolute goods, and 2 absolute bads. KBB, are you showing a bit of biased-ness?However, this is how I would rank them.1-CX5TIE FOR 2-Sportage and CRV4-Equinox5-RAV46-CompassI do have to say, anything made by Fiat-Chrysler is bound for trouble in the very near future, only going downhill from there.
So many of these types of test never take into consideration cost of ownership and rate of repairs..... several of these would not even show up on the radar if it was... Just my opinion
Could you rank the highway interior noise of these cars? I'm looking for an quiet ride. Our 2004 RAV4 is extremely noisy on the highway. Thanks.
wasabi9111 Get the Mazda, has lower road noise than a Jaguar.
wasabi9111 the Mazda is the better one
Kia Sportage for the warranty, and Mazda CX-5 for everything else.
Can I ask why the Rav4 Hybrid never gets included in these comparisons? It's nominal fee would make it very appetizing for buyers when they see it compared to others in the market.
Jorel Davis because the others in the class are not hybrids
christopher kibler but it doesn't cost much to upgrade
christopher kibler I know. I wish hybrid options, if they make the vehicle better in some way were used in these comparisons so viewers are able to see how they stack up.
Maybe good to the buyers pocket book at the pump. But hybrid batteries are the worst inventions. The smelting process is destroying the earth at a higher rate than hundreds of hummers running at once
christopher kibler that would be incorrect. I would definitely read up on the overall affect of hybrids. You may feel like hybrid production is this terrible thing but facts are in their favor. science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/does-hybrid-car-production-waste-offset-hybrid-benefits2.htm
Volkswagen Tiguan, Audi Q2/Q3, Mercedes GLA/GLC, BMW X1? Too expensive for you to test or what? How about Hyundai Tucson, Seat Ateca, Suzuki Vitara? Dacia Duster or Dacia Sandero Stepway? Please do a part 2!
Vanessa Oelmann half of those are in the luxury class and the rest besides VW and Hyundai are not in the US.
Dacia may not be available in the US but the rest is. And yes, German cars may be luxurious, but that doesn't mean they are not compact SUVs. Note that the title says compact SUV comparison, not affordable American Korean and Japanese compact SUV comparison. And they also included the Jeep Compass which is way smaller than its competitors so why not also include the cars I just mentioned
Missing the Forester
The Rogue is the best one I assume?
Just like everybody else no Subaru! Adding the Forester here would be nice.
Honda CR-V Offers The best over-all quality and reliability and re-sale value of all the suvs
New Tiguan?
Where is the Forester? This is basically a comparison for 2nd place....
Hyundai Tuscon is the best looking car in this segment.. wheres it at??!
What about the Ford Escape?
No Subaru
Why the need for the background noise ( music ) ?
The most serious looking is Jeep Compass, also the most effective and reliable 4x4 system. The rest of competition looks like city cars for girls and hipsters. Another worth serious candid would be Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross 4x4. Subaru Forester also very good if you at OK with its looks...
This is my Third video comparing compact SUV's and the Mazda seems to finish second overall in each video. Im going with the CX-5.
Abe Hassan-Froman did you end up getting the CX-5? And if so how have you been liking it?
Can someone tell me what the background music/song is? Thanks
Subaru not here? It beats them all!
KBB, what about the Subaru Forester?
1. Honda
2. Mazda
3. Toyota
👏
Been waiting for this vid!!
I am so surprised these are classed as "compact SUV's". In Australia, most of these are classed as mid-sized and even some as large SUV's. Although, the US does have larger cars than Australia does, so i guess it makes sense.
Mazda handles well onroad, but that comes at the price of offroad comfort. Offroad ride is important to me, so for me it's either the Jeep or the RAV4, or maybe the Sportage. I test drove the Sportage once and I really liked the nice interior, peppy engine, and smooth ride. I don't like CVTs, so Honda CRV is out.
No new Tiguan?
Why did you leave out the Ford Escape it's the most attractive of the class
What about safety? that wasnt mentioned on any of these vehicles.
The new vehicles are Chilean. Very good!
So no Subaru, Ford, Nissan, VW, or Hyundai?
Tucson?
I'm surprised this didn't include the Nissan Rogue or Mitsubishi Outlander?!?
Matt Sargent Well considering they're both awful cars....why bother