Exceptional video. Two questions for Hugh: 1) How much longer is the new Navigator Pro standard chicken loop when compared to the previous shorter freeride loop of the 2023 Navigator? We really loved the closer feel of it. 2) How does the difference of line thickness affect uneven shrinkage between front and back lines? Cheers!!
Hey Ruben 1) The new Pro standard freeride harness loop is just 1cm longer than the 23 Navigator short Freeride loop. As it is folded over this will only equate to 5mm of difference which I doubt you will notice. The reason we reduced the size of the standard harness loop that comes with the Nav Pro bar is that the industry is more about big air now and not so focused on unhooking anymore. For big air most people want the most secure connection which happens to be a smaller loop, for the remaining freestylers amongst us you can still easily trade out for the large freestyle loop for easy unhooked riding. The new security finger on the Nav Pro has also made it a lot more secure for accidental unhooking. 2) With our testing over the years we have found the thinner 1.3mm rear lines, which are under much less load, don't shrink as much over time as salt crystals, sand and debris get into the weave. As they are smaller they will also stretch a little more under load. Note the 1.3mm SK99 rear lines are still ample strong enough with a big safety factor even with wear taken into account at 325kg. We've kept the front lines at 1.55mm SK99 with a breaking load of 490kg. The Nav Pro does feature up to 10cm of line adjustment should you still need to adjust the bar lines over time. We have tested lines from most manufacturers and particularly as the coating wears off all lines have some degree of shrinkage over time.
@@hughpinfold4054 Hey Hugh, Thank you so much for your quick and in depth response. Your friendliness and willing to engage with the public is one of the reasons we are super stoked on North.
Looks like you made the best bar on the market as long as there aren't any issues, but why keep the line join at 12 meters? Nobody rides lines that short. I think e.g. 18+4m would be much better.
Hey @chi1i good question and its one that we'd debated heavily within our product development team. With everything you offer there are compromises and its impossible to please everyone. On the North Navigator bars the spliced loop to loop join also acts as a bar stopping point when you deploy your QR. 12m is long enough distance to completely depower our largest kite but not too far so you end up with a pile of spaghetti twisted flying lines which is more likely to happen with the stopper up higher. There are some people foiling and doing short line kite loops with 12m lines however these are most used by schools teaching with limited space on their local beaches. We did debate having 12 + 8 + 2m also but if you can imagine there are small tolerances that come into manufacturing with splicing joined lines and the more joins you have the more space you create for discrepancies between lines. The main clincher is that 99% of people never adjust their line lengths and are happy to just ride the 22mm lines that come as stock. Note you do get 2m line extensions with the Orbit Pro kite, and we offer line accessory packs from 2, 6, 8, 10, 12m lengths if you really want to tweak your setup. I hope this helps to follow our rationale.
What about semi-suicide freestyle/wakestyle mode? Looks like a great quality bar, and including thorough refinements from a lot of riding over the years!
The Navigator bar strength was incrementally improved over the years. The Nav Pro bar is overmolded as one piece and is a further 20% stronger than the latest version of Navigator. The Nav Pro is bomber.
Yes auto-unwinding bars have been around for a while, however there are a whole lot of different ways of doing it. In the past some were made only with a high line flag out system that had a kite specific flag out system. We've been prototyping loads of different auto unwinding bar systems over the past five or so years. North now offers their take on how an auto unwinding bar can be with accessories like the High V kit that allows the Navigator Pro to work with most kites on the market. I still don't believe everyone will want the Nav Pro, as it is a little more expensive due to more moving parts you do need to really look after auto unwinding bars to keep them spinning freely as designed. That's why the regular Navigator will remain in Norths lineup at a lower price point for those no fuss keep it simple riders that are happy enough to continue manually unwinding their front lines.
From my understanding, "North" (up until 2020) was essentially Duotone. North was licensing it's name to another company so you can't really compare the old North products to the North products of today.
Aah I love kiteporn like this! I wonder if the plasticcoating around the lines that runs through the bar had ever split during testing, or wore down? I had that happen to my bars of another brand that use a similar system.
Hey there, great question. The PU tubing we use on the Navigator Pro is a very specific grade with excellent abrasion resistance and with UV additives that we especially import to be extruded for us. We have been testing with this tubing for hundreds of hours over two years now and haven't had any split or fail. On test bars with over 100 hours use the PU tubing does become a bit more matt ie. the gloss finish gets sanded a little. If you were to use regular Chinese PU tubing wear and splitting may be an issue.
Hey there @juliusznowakowicz9282, it hear your concerns, however the centerpiece on the Navigator Pro bar is made with a new technology injection molded Stainless Steel which creates a very strong and hard wear resistant surface. On top of this we also coat the stainless steel with a Titanium PVD coating which is also very wear resistant and helps the bar slide freely on the PU tubing. In all our hundreds of hours of pre production testing over the last two years we have not experienced any bar centerpieces getting sharp. I suspect some of the bar centerpieces getting sharp you are alluding to were perhaps Aluminum or regular cast Stainless Steel.
@@Cheoz0r86inserts are generally made from plastic which has a much softer less durable surface hence need replacing every so often. We made it our mission to design a bar centerpiece that would not wear out and get sharp over time. From our hundreds of hours of on water testing with test riders of all abilities from beginner to pro we have not seen any of our centerpieces get sharp from excessive wear.
I really dislike that you cannot attach the trim handle to the bar. Now when depowered this is just dangeling around, which is annoying as hell. I don not know why this is not a feature for a pro version....
Yeah all Carbon would be light but im not sure people would like the price they'd be. The Nav Pro still has some good weight savings with the single overmolded bar.
I just don't understand the line lengths at North...12 and 10. as if you wanted to sail with 12 meter lines. why not 18 + 4 + 2 so you can sail with 18 meters or 20 or 22 or 24. you just can't do anything with this
Hey Barry, reply as per the same question a few above and its one that we'd debated heavily within our product development team. With everything you offer there are compromises and its impossible to please everyone. On the North Navigator bars the spliced loop to loop join also acts as a bar stopping point when you deploy your QR. 12m is long enough distance to completely depower our largest kite but not too far so you end up with a pile of spaghetti twisted flying lines which is more likely to happen with the stopper up higher. There are some people foiling and doing short line kite loops with 12m lines however these are most used by schools teaching with limited space on their local beaches. We did debate having 12 + 8 + 2m also but if you can imagine there are small tolerances that come into manufacturing with splicing joined lines and the more joins you have the more space you create for discrepancies between lines. The main clincher is that 99% of people never adjust their line lengths and are happy to just ride the 22mm lines that come as stock. Note you do get 2m line extensions with the Orbit Pro kite, and we offer line accessory packs from 2, 6, 8, 10, 12m lengths if you really want to tweak your setup. I hope this helps to follow our rationale.
Love running the North bars on everything. Universal pigtails standard would be a great addition
This is the new standard for Kite Bars 100% .. 5 stars , well done Hugh
Many thanks we're stoked to have it out there
Nice, such attention to detail. This is why I love North
Much appreciated 🙌
Ka pai. Looks dope AF. Good insights.
Cheers, catch you out on the water
Exceptional video. Two questions for Hugh: 1) How much longer is the new Navigator Pro standard chicken loop when compared to the previous shorter freeride loop of the 2023 Navigator? We really loved the closer feel of it. 2) How does the difference of line thickness affect uneven shrinkage between front and back lines? Cheers!!
Hey Ruben 1) The new Pro standard freeride harness loop is just 1cm longer than the 23 Navigator short Freeride loop. As it is folded over this will only equate to 5mm of difference which I doubt you will notice. The reason we reduced the size of the standard harness loop that comes with the Nav Pro bar is that the industry is more about big air now and not so focused on unhooking anymore. For big air most people want the most secure connection which happens to be a smaller loop, for the remaining freestylers amongst us you can still easily trade out for the large freestyle loop for easy unhooked riding. The new security finger on the Nav Pro has also made it a lot more secure for accidental unhooking. 2) With our testing over the years we have found the thinner 1.3mm rear lines, which are under much less load, don't shrink as much over time as salt crystals, sand and debris get into the weave. As they are smaller they will also stretch a little more under load. Note the 1.3mm SK99 rear lines are still ample strong enough with a big safety factor even with wear taken into account at 325kg. We've kept the front lines at 1.55mm SK99 with a breaking load of 490kg. The Nav Pro does feature up to 10cm of line adjustment should you still need to adjust the bar lines over time. We have tested lines from most manufacturers and particularly as the coating wears off all lines have some degree of shrinkage over time.
@@hughpinfold4054 Hey Hugh, Thank you so much for your quick and in depth response. Your friendliness and willing to engage with the public is one of the reasons we are super stoked on North.
Looks like you made the best bar on the market as long as there aren't any issues, but why keep the line join at 12 meters? Nobody rides lines that short. I think e.g. 18+4m would be much better.
Hey @chi1i good question and its one that we'd debated heavily within our product development team. With everything you offer there are compromises and its impossible to please everyone. On the North Navigator bars the spliced loop to loop join also acts as a bar stopping point when you deploy your QR. 12m is long enough distance to completely depower our largest kite but not too far so you end up with a pile of spaghetti twisted flying lines which is more likely to happen with the stopper up higher. There are some people foiling and doing short line kite loops with 12m lines however these are most used by schools teaching with limited space on their local beaches. We did debate having 12 + 8 + 2m also but if you can imagine there are small tolerances that come into manufacturing with splicing joined lines and the more joins you have the more space you create for discrepancies between lines. The main clincher is that 99% of people never adjust their line lengths and are happy to just ride the 22mm lines that come as stock. Note you do get 2m line extensions with the Orbit Pro kite, and we offer line accessory packs from 2, 6, 8, 10, 12m lengths if you really want to tweak your setup. I hope this helps to follow our rationale.
Looks great, well done! Can't wait to use one.
I hope you can get a epic session on one soon 🤘
What about semi-suicide freestyle/wakestyle mode? Looks like a great quality bar, and including thorough refinements from a lot of riding over the years!
There is a freestyle harness loop available that comes with a freestyle leash ring as an accessory for releasable suicide mode
Are the plastic ends of the bar under the floaters any stronger compared to last version? Or are they gonna keep breaking again during loops?
The Navigator bar strength was incrementally improved over the years. The Nav Pro bar is overmolded as one piece and is a further 20% stronger than the latest version of Navigator. The Nav Pro is bomber.
At léast there is no new logo on it 😂😂😂
You may want to look a little closer 😅
About time 👌
Can I use the bar with Core Kites? GTS 1 & 2?
Looking mint guys!
🙌🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
it should be a normal north's bar :)
Slingshot Sentry V1 Bar 😂
This wasn't intensional but Slingshot have always had a great eye for styling also 😉
...but you already had auto-unwist back in 2018, 6 years later and its finally back
Yes auto-unwinding bars have been around for a while, however there are a whole lot of different ways of doing it. In the past some were made only with a high line flag out system that had a kite specific flag out system. We've been prototyping loads of different auto unwinding bar systems over the past five or so years. North now offers their take on how an auto unwinding bar can be with accessories like the High V kit that allows the Navigator Pro to work with most kites on the market. I still don't believe everyone will want the Nav Pro, as it is a little more expensive due to more moving parts you do need to really look after auto unwinding bars to keep them spinning freely as designed. That's why the regular Navigator will remain in Norths lineup at a lower price point for those no fuss keep it simple riders that are happy enough to continue manually unwinding their front lines.
From my understanding, "North" (up until 2020) was essentially Duotone. North was licensing it's name to another company so you can't really compare the old North products to the North products of today.
Aah I love kiteporn like this! I wonder if the plasticcoating around the lines that runs through the bar had ever split during testing, or wore down? I had that happen to my bars of another brand that use a similar system.
Hey there, great question. The PU tubing we use on the Navigator Pro is a very specific grade with excellent abrasion resistance and with UV additives that we especially import to be extruded for us. We have been testing with this tubing for hundreds of hours over two years now and haven't had any split or fail. On test bars with over 100 hours use the PU tubing does become a bit more matt ie. the gloss finish gets sanded a little. If you were to use regular Chinese PU tubing wear and splitting may be an issue.
Looks very nice 💪
titanium coating you say. i hope it doesent wear out and get sharp but i have a feeling it will. we saw that before in other brands
Inserts are a must, sand ends up eating any metal
Hey there @juliusznowakowicz9282, it hear your concerns, however the centerpiece on the Navigator Pro bar is made with a new technology injection molded Stainless Steel which creates a very strong and hard wear resistant surface. On top of this we also coat the stainless steel with a Titanium PVD coating which is also very wear resistant and helps the bar slide freely on the PU tubing. In all our hundreds of hours of pre production testing over the last two years we have not experienced any bar centerpieces getting sharp. I suspect some of the bar centerpieces getting sharp you are alluding to were perhaps Aluminum or regular cast Stainless Steel.
@@Cheoz0r86inserts are generally made from plastic which has a much softer less durable surface hence need replacing every so often. We made it our mission to design a bar centerpiece that would not wear out and get sharp over time. From our hundreds of hours of on water testing with test riders of all abilities from beginner to pro we have not seen any of our centerpieces get sharp from excessive wear.
Looks amazing! Can’t wait to buy it.
Thanks for your support, you won't be disappointed 👊
I really dislike that you cannot attach the trim handle to the bar. Now when depowered this is just dangeling around, which is annoying as hell. I don not know why this is not a feature for a pro version....
all looks good but can you please made it in carbon already...
Yeah all Carbon would be light but im not sure people would like the price they'd be. The Nav Pro still has some good weight savings with the single overmolded bar.
I just don't understand the line lengths at North...12 and 10.
as if you wanted to sail with 12 meter lines. why not 18 + 4 + 2
so you can sail with 18 meters or 20 or 22 or 24.
you just can't do anything with this
Hey Barry, reply as per the same question a few above and its one that we'd debated heavily within our product development team. With everything you offer there are compromises and its impossible to please everyone. On the North Navigator bars the spliced loop to loop join also acts as a bar stopping point when you deploy your QR. 12m is long enough distance to completely depower our largest kite but not too far so you end up with a pile of spaghetti twisted flying lines which is more likely to happen with the stopper up higher. There are some people foiling and doing short line kite loops with 12m lines however these are most used by schools teaching with limited space on their local beaches. We did debate having 12 + 8 + 2m also but if you can imagine there are small tolerances that come into manufacturing with splicing joined lines and the more joins you have the more space you create for discrepancies between lines. The main clincher is that 99% of people never adjust their line lengths and are happy to just ride the 22mm lines that come as stock. Note you do get 2m line extensions with the Orbit Pro kite, and we offer line accessory packs from 2, 6, 8, 10, 12m lengths if you really want to tweak your setup. I hope this helps to follow our rationale.
Does it come with an aardvark?
Check with your local shop