Hammer & Shield has bash as first heavy now. Works better than hammer+axe now imo; push attack overhead deals with armored well enough when you really have to.
You know I played ironbreaker with a party on legend. I didn’t get any circles at the end of the round... but I tanked... like a lot. Not one to brag but there was a point where I was the only one left and we won cause Ironbreaker never dies.
Hammer and shield is weird, I agree. Everyone I run into who plays IB runs it and they always say it’s great but HOLY SHIT it does nothing to anyone even remotely beefy. I don’t even mind the attack sequence, it’s just that awful damage. So yeah, definitely a member of axe and shield gang. That push, shield punch and horizontal axe swing rhythm is way too satisfying to pass up.
I gotta say, I think you're really undervaluing the insane crowd control the hammer and shield brings to a team. While it'll take you a bit to actually finish them off, it's charge attack one-two punch and swing can keep entire hordes locked down with smart positioning, a good team or a decent choke point. It really only struggles with bosses, but even then you'll probably be holding back the inevitable wave that comes running instead. It lets the rest of the team focus on tearing everything apart... if they're any good. Just be sure to bring a handgun in your ranged slot for deleting most specials as you see them. I sure do miss the infinite shield slap axe and shield had in Vermintide 1 though :C
From my experience playing solo with randoms, shield is amazing for cc but if you don’t have someone there to take advantage of it it’s fucking useless. I had like 100+ horde units staggered in a hallway and had to keep pinging “come here!” For one of my teammates to turn around and clear them out while I had all of the cc’d. To be fair this was on champ while I was leveling Bardin and you get some dumb ass mfkers on champ
@@The1FluffyPanda yeah, champ is one of the worst places to be, lots of people who think they're way better then they are. On the flip side though I had a run (also on champ) where I had the entire party go down in one swarm and was able to pick them all up thanks to that stagger. It's a weapon that brings more in terms of tactical options then damage. It's not a high ranking weapon on its own, but it can make other players weapons really shine.
The way I view it I see the shield part of a shield weapon as the "horde controller" if you will. And the other part as my damage/elite killer. Shield bash and push combinations alone will be able to control most hordes. The reason I prefer the axe so much more than the hammer is the difference in single target damage and armor piercing ability. This is where the hammer really lacks. Essentially I don't see a need for a weapon to have two horde aspects to it. As a lower damage weapon user I want to help in any way I can to do armor damage for the team.
exactly, an no shield that blocks your vision, not to mention it better to avoid dmg than blocking it in the first place, or even pushing yourself into a tank role and then your team misses out dps value
I love your videos, but one suggestion would be to crank the volume up a tad! At 100% here and I still have to mute other stuff to properly understand you. The content is good though, kuddos! :)
i use duo hammers or 2h hammer most of the time personaly i dont really like axe and shield maybe because of my playstyle but i cant deal with the low wave clear on this weapon
@@gabeperras3711 Just guessing based off what they said... "this weapon" I believe they were talking strictly about the wave clear ability of that and nothing else, not how to mix in absolutely every source of damage you have accessible at the moment. I'm not saying its a bad idea... Just saying half your answer had to do with guns, which technically weren't what the person asked about. On the other hand maybe they asked wrong IDK, just pointing it out is all.
Dual hammers are fantastic. Take them with the rolling mountain and you'll be ulting all the time. Lights for hordes, heavies for elites. Push attack to run faster. They're tons of fun.
1h axe is really good with flame pistols. Melt horde with shotgun pistols shot, then finish elites (while getting +25% power from single shot from Barrage). It is mobile, good dodge, good combo with push attack, easy headshots and +10% crit chance. 1h hammer is good vs armored (actually its heavy attack is faster than 1h axe light attack) but the heavy attack deals damage only to single target and has broken, zero stagger. Which is really bad. It is also pretty weird vs horde, it has bad attack angles, so you hit not too many mobs. Dual hammers are really good, almost perfect, but they are weak vs armored. Greathammer is my favourite weapon on Slayer (and one of two favourite melee weapons in game, with WHC rapier), but it seems very slow on IB. Even if you get +10% attack speed from properties and swift slaying, those heavy attacks seem too slow, unless the team lets you position well so you don't get surrounded. But if you do get surrounded (which on some pubs is sometimes hard to avoid) that low mobility + low attack speed can be painful. Hammer and shield is great to use on IB bot, he is reaally tanky with it, makes playing with bots way easier, while also staggering everything around him and making enemies more vulnerable with bulwark.
Only weapon I would disagree on is the war pick, witch I would move up to A tier. I main iron breaker on ps4, and my cata setup is attack speed and BCR on the pick and chaos and attack speed on the charm, and health and BCR on the necklace. The attack speed bonus and BCR make it a very versatile weapon. The other important thing is the crowd control is on the light attacks, which in my experience helps a lot with laggy matches, although I’d imagine that that’s not as important on pc, with your more powerful hardware.
I always try to stay away from shield weapons when using IB because of his kit is already defensive, and having shields is overkill on stamina. I always try to get the most offensive weapons such as a 2h weapons and dual hams. This is especially true in Qp where i dont expect anyone to compliment my perpetual shield bashings.
And I can understand that. I guess I've always been of the mind to bring more than what I'll probably need to a team. That way if shit does hit the fan I have something to fall back on, but of course nothing wrong with an offensive tank dwarf.
Whenever I play him, I just stagger everyone non stop and let my teammates kill them lol. With the shield u can even stagger chaos warriors, so I take bulwark to help my team do more dmg to them. Edit: Also I love the feeling of kiting a whole group of chaos patrol whenever my team triggers them lol, same applies to the monsters, so satisfying.
Cog hammer is a reversed great hammer which fills the same role but light attacks for crowds and heavies for heavies. While I can't speak for him S tier from me.
Cog hammer and Great hammer are the go to aggressive Ironbreaker builds imo. Both are excellent weapons, cog hammer my general choice of weapon. I generally agree, though the pick is a nice choice it is just outdone versatility by the others. I initially was all on for the two handed axe and wish it was as good as the two handed hammers but it just falls a bit short. Pun intended. The matchwork pistol has very little competition for ranged weapons imo, unloading it into a monster will get the agro and do a beefy chunk of damage while it will one shot, or if necessary panic shot just about anything else short of a chaos warrior. Isolated with a patrol? Unload. Isolated with a horde of plague monks? Unload. It's a great panic button when needed and a precise near-sniper when not with a solid ammo pool. Only serious competitors imo are shotgun and the drake pistols if you're really struggling with ammo.
personally I prefer hammer n shield because the push attack which is the overhead does decent AP and it can be comboed into the shield bash then into the heavy hammer swing which also does AP all of which = a basic light attack of an attack, but im also aware of the fact that the axe n shield is much better and requires less skill to use over hammer n shield so im normally worried when its brought by another IB. I do think its down to personal prefrence though on what weapon people can use, as I absolutely hate the great-axe and think it belongs in the D tier while the hammer n shield belongs in the B tier. But again I think everyone is capable of using all the weapons while the rest of us cant even get around its akwardness. Except the 2 greatswords, everyone agrees they are bad.
@@EnDegenerate Because now shield bash is first heavy attack and because they added nice mini combo: Push attack then light attack - two very fast attack with good armor damage. With this you can kill chaos warriors or any other enemies quickly and be safe at the same time.
Shield weapons are always a weak choice for IB. Shields, however, are good for newbies trying out legend as it makes IB unkillable. The rest of the team must have extremely high dps to make up for shielded IB. Also, the shield is to protect sienna / elf / huntsman, not to protect himself....
You lose some damage with shields, but with the constant staggering it actually helps keep your team alive. I wouldn't say its a weak choice, but rather a helpful one :)
The shield bash staggers large groups of enemies which makes your team mates deal increased damage, you can stagger entire stormvermin patrols and even chaos warriors. And when you use Ult your team mates can deal even more damage. Also the amount of temp life you get from staggering is insane making you almost unkillable which means your team has more healing items for themselves. Most people already play a DPS build so a tank is a nice addition to the team. The axe and shield is a great team weapon but a horrible solo weapon.
Did you know that push attacks generate aggro? Yes, you can grab aggro with pushes from other members of a team. And Shield is usefull as hell on Cata where that extra stamina and stagger (shield pushes are much more powerful then on any non shield weapon) make wonder. You can actually solo control thick horde, so others can snipe or just do their thing. Remember it's a team game.
@@WetMagic after the changes i love the 2h axe on IB. Chain heavies all day for wave clear and light light cancel spam for elites/monsters. Armor and shield break, does it all.
![[Updated] Melee Weapon Tier List - Markus Kruber](/img/n.gif)
Great Axe for life. Incredible sweeps for dealing with crowds and a quick and high damage downward anti-armor strike. Especially with swift slaying.
Hammer & Shield has bash as first heavy now.
Works better than hammer+axe now imo; push attack overhead deals with armored well enough when you really have to.
The one-handed hammer is a BEAST!! Great breakdown.
I use the shield/axe with both the Ironbreaker and the Veteran Ranger. Such a beautiful weapon.
great video as usual WM!
keep it up man
I appreciate it brotha. Good to see a fellow tank out there.
You know I played ironbreaker with a party on legend. I didn’t get any circles at the end of the round... but I tanked... like a lot. Not one to brag but there was a point where I was the only one left and we won cause Ironbreaker never dies.
Happens every time
Really should be green circled for damage absorbed and stagger/cc control
Hammer and shield is weird, I agree. Everyone I run into who plays IB runs it and they always say it’s great but HOLY SHIT it does nothing to anyone even remotely beefy. I don’t even mind the attack sequence, it’s just that awful damage. So yeah, definitely a member of axe and shield gang. That push, shield punch and horizontal axe swing rhythm is way too satisfying to pass up.
His 1hnd hammer is a underrated weapon, it is a very well rounded wepaon.
I hate that hammer and shield is so bad. for me personaly i just love the look of a shield and a big ass hammer on an armored dwarf
I gotta say, I think you're really undervaluing the insane crowd control the hammer and shield brings to a team. While it'll take you a bit to actually finish them off, it's charge attack one-two punch and swing can keep entire hordes locked down with smart positioning, a good team or a decent choke point. It really only struggles with bosses, but even then you'll probably be holding back the inevitable wave that comes running instead. It lets the rest of the team focus on tearing everything apart... if they're any good.
Just be sure to bring a handgun in your ranged slot for deleting most specials as you see them.
I sure do miss the infinite shield slap axe and shield had in Vermintide 1 though :C
From my experience playing solo with randoms, shield is amazing for cc but if you don’t have someone there to take advantage of it it’s fucking useless. I had like 100+ horde units staggered in a hallway and had to keep pinging “come here!” For one of my teammates to turn around and clear them out while I had all of the cc’d. To be fair this was on champ while I was leveling Bardin and you get some dumb ass mfkers on champ
@@The1FluffyPanda yeah, champ is one of the worst places to be, lots of people who think they're way better then they are. On the flip side though I had a run (also on champ) where I had the entire party go down in one swarm and was able to pick them all up thanks to that stagger.
It's a weapon that brings more in terms of tactical options then damage. It's not a high ranking weapon on its own, but it can make other players weapons really shine.
The way I view it I see the shield part of a shield weapon as the "horde controller" if you will. And the other part as my damage/elite killer. Shield bash and push combinations alone will be able to control most hordes. The reason I prefer the axe so much more than the hammer is the difference in single target damage and armor piercing ability. This is where the hammer really lacks.
Essentially I don't see a need for a weapon to have two horde aspects to it. As a lower damage weapon user I want to help in any way I can to do armor damage for the team.
An interesting point is that the 1h axe is a great pairing with drake weapons as they cover the weakness to dense hoards.
A fair point, but I try to look at the weapons on their own for these.
@@WetMagic Fair enough. Hard to straight rank something when it's usefulness is very build dependant anyway.
@@JudoP_slinging Tell me about it haha. I have to do so much testing for these videos.
exactly, an no shield that blocks your vision, not to mention it better to avoid dmg than blocking it in the first place, or even pushing yourself into a tank role and then your team misses out dps value
I use pickaxe for iron breaker. It’s awesome for crowds, and the charge attack is perfect for elites and specials alike.
Greathammer
I love your videos, but one suggestion would be to crank the volume up a tad!
At 100% here and I still have to mute other stuff to properly understand you.
The content is good though, kuddos! :)
Yea I had this problem for a while. It's better on my more recent videos. I appreciate it though.
i use duo hammers or 2h hammer most of the time personaly i dont really like axe and shield maybe because of my playstyle but i cant deal with the low wave clear on this weapon
Low wave clear? Shield bash, push, swap to drakefire pistols, shotgun, shotgun, wave gone.
@@gabeperras3711 Just guessing based off what they said... "this weapon"
I believe they were talking strictly about the wave clear ability of that and nothing else, not how to mix in absolutely every source of damage you have accessible at the moment.
I'm not saying its a bad idea... Just saying half your answer had to do with guns, which technically weren't what the person asked about.
On the other hand maybe they asked wrong IDK, just pointing it out is all.
What’s your take on the Dual Hammers for IB?
Dual hammers are fantastic. Take them with the rolling mountain and you'll be ulting all the time. Lights for hordes, heavies for elites. Push attack to run faster. They're tons of fun.
1h axe is really good with flame pistols. Melt horde with shotgun pistols shot, then finish elites (while getting +25% power from single shot from Barrage). It is mobile, good dodge, good combo with push attack, easy headshots and +10% crit chance.
1h hammer is good vs armored (actually its heavy attack is faster than 1h axe light attack) but the heavy attack deals damage only to single target and has broken, zero stagger. Which is really bad.
It is also pretty weird vs horde, it has bad attack angles, so you hit not too many mobs.
Dual hammers are really good, almost perfect, but they are weak vs armored.
Greathammer is my favourite weapon on Slayer (and one of two favourite melee weapons in game, with WHC rapier), but it seems very slow on IB. Even if you get +10% attack speed from properties and swift slaying, those heavy attacks seem too slow, unless the team lets you position well so you don't get surrounded. But if you do get surrounded (which on some pubs is sometimes hard to avoid) that low mobility + low attack speed can be painful.
Hammer and shield is great to use on IB bot, he is reaally tanky with it, makes playing with bots way easier, while also staggering everything around him and making enemies more vulnerable with bulwark.
Only weapon I would disagree on is the war pick, witch I would move up to A tier. I main iron breaker on ps4, and my cata setup is attack speed and BCR on the pick and chaos and attack speed on the charm, and health and BCR on the necklace. The attack speed bonus and BCR make it a very versatile weapon. The other important thing is the crowd control is on the light attacks, which in my experience helps a lot with laggy matches, although I’d imagine that that’s not as important on pc, with your more powerful hardware.
Oh no we still get lag. That's mostly a net code issue, and if one person has bad hardware and poor connection well might hurt the others.
I always try to stay away from shield weapons when using IB because of his kit is already defensive, and having shields is overkill on stamina. I always try to get the most offensive weapons such as a 2h weapons and dual hams. This is especially true in Qp where i dont expect anyone to compliment my perpetual shield bashings.
And I can understand that. I guess I've always been of the mind to bring more than what I'll probably need to a team. That way if shit does hit the fan I have something to fall back on, but of course nothing wrong with an offensive tank dwarf.
Whenever I play him, I just stagger everyone non stop and let my teammates kill them lol. With the shield u can even stagger chaos warriors, so I take bulwark to help my team do more dmg to them.
Edit: Also I love the feeling of kiting a whole group of chaos patrol whenever my team triggers them lol, same applies to the monsters, so satisfying.
I have the same playstyle! I love being the tank and have the massieve stagger. I don’t mind the damage
After the weapon updates do you think the tier list still stands or mostly the same?
most of them would be basically the same with a few minor changes. not enough to make me redo them I think.
What tier would you place cog hammer for ib? Im new to the game. Thanks for making these videos
Cog hammer is a reversed great hammer which fills the same role but light attacks for crowds and heavies for heavies. While I can't speak for him S tier from me.
Yes, S tier for sure. Only thing that can keep up with it are the dual hammers.
Cog hammer and Great hammer are the go to aggressive Ironbreaker builds imo. Both are excellent weapons, cog hammer my general choice of weapon. I generally agree, though the pick is a nice choice it is just outdone versatility by the others. I initially was all on for the two handed axe and wish it was as good as the two handed hammers but it just falls a bit short.
Pun intended.
The matchwork pistol has very little competition for ranged weapons imo, unloading it into a monster will get the agro and do a beefy chunk of damage while it will one shot, or if necessary panic shot just about anything else short of a chaos warrior. Isolated with a patrol? Unload. Isolated with a horde of plague monks? Unload. It's a great panic button when needed and a precise near-sniper when not with a solid ammo pool. Only serious competitors imo are shotgun and the drake pistols if you're really struggling with ammo.
personally I prefer hammer n shield because the push attack which is the overhead does decent AP and it can be comboed into the shield bash then into the heavy hammer swing which also does AP all of which = a basic light attack of an attack, but im also aware of the fact that the axe n shield is much better and requires less skill to use over hammer n shield so im normally worried when its brought by another IB. I do think its down to personal prefrence though on what weapon people can use, as I absolutely hate the great-axe and think it belongs in the D tier while the hammer n shield belongs in the B tier. But again I think everyone is capable of using all the weapons while the rest of us cant even get around its akwardness. Except the 2 greatswords, everyone agrees they are bad.
Hammer and shield before the summer update = the worst. After the summer update = the best. :-D
Can you explain why this is so?
@@EnDegenerate Because now shield bash is first heavy attack and because they added nice mini combo: Push attack then light attack - two very fast attack with good armor damage. With this you can kill chaos warriors or any other enemies quickly and be safe at the same time.
2 handed az and Irondrake for me, got anti hoard and anti elite
plus i love the commentary the team gives when you irondrake them
You forgot Koggrund. I think it's weapon N1 for ironbreaker and for outcast engeneer.
List was made before outcast was created. That's why its not in here.
ranged tier list next
honestly i disagree with the 2h axe couz for horde's i use drakegun to kill horde's and use the axe for elite's
Shield weapons are always a weak choice for IB. Shields, however, are good for newbies trying out legend as it makes IB unkillable. The rest of the team must have extremely high dps to make up for shielded IB. Also, the shield is to protect sienna / elf / huntsman, not to protect himself....
You lose some damage with shields, but with the constant staggering it actually helps keep your team alive. I wouldn't say its a weak choice, but rather a helpful one :)
The shield bash staggers large groups of enemies which makes your team mates deal increased damage, you can stagger entire stormvermin patrols and even chaos warriors. And when you use Ult your team mates can deal even more damage. Also the amount of temp life you get from staggering is insane making you almost unkillable which means your team has more healing items for themselves. Most people already play a DPS build so a tank is a nice addition to the team. The axe and shield is a great team weapon but a horrible solo weapon.
Did you know that push attacks generate aggro? Yes, you can grab aggro with pushes from other members of a team. And Shield is usefull as hell on Cata where that extra stamina and stagger (shield pushes are much more powerful then on any non shield weapon) make wonder. You can actually solo control thick horde, so others can snipe or just do their thing. Remember it's a team game.
3 answers below is all what i think about i answer you
2h axe is the best overall weapon on any career imo
I can respect that. What do you think are the strengths of that weapon?
Perfect to kill monsters and Elite, the swing is to Short to handle hords
@@Swingmesideways They have actually changed that in the current beta. It cleaves well now.
@@WetMagic after the changes i love the 2h axe on IB. Chain heavies all day for wave clear and light light cancel spam for elites/monsters. Armor and shield break, does it all.
I don’t want to sound like I’m hating on your videos but 1h axe and 1h hammer are S tier buddy . Dual hammers too.
Could you explain yourself?
well what are the reasons?
Where my gyro hammer at? 😜🤙