I got a canning machine for my homebrew. I’m constantly sending out beer to mates around the country and shipping cans is much easier. I purge well with Co2 and cap on foam and results are pretty decent
Thanks for the beer temperature evaluation. Back in 1986 I forgot that I left a case of homemade beer bottle conditioned for a year in my closet in Killeen, Texas. It was and still is the best beer I have every tasted! I called my Platoon Sergeant that served 5 years in Germany to tell him what I found; he was already a fan of my Germany style beer which he said "... tasted better than any beer he drank in Germany ...". Sargent Majo arrived 20 minutes later. I broke out my shot glasses! We were going to savor every drop of this beer. An hour later: We had drank 4 12 oz bottles. The best description of the taste: "If angels set a table for god - This is what god drank." The making of the beer was old school: No filtering, poured each bottled from the fermenter with the yeast and hops, screwed on caps to the bottles, and placed in case cardboard beer box. Since then, I have not had a beer go 3 months without drinking it. My daughter made a beer, 64 oz bottle in December that I will not open til June 2023. This will be the most aged beer I have had in 37 years. Gulf War Veteran 1990-91.
Can you please do this again with stouts in winter (or just wait a few weeks)? Likewise barleywines, if you ever needed an excuse to have more barleywines!
We are blessed here in the village of lewiston New York “brewed and bottled” our local bottle shop keeps everything in coolers. So the only question is how it is transported. Great video Johnny. Hope all is well with Brad.👍🏻🍻
Brilliant video, so can I be safe to say the best thing to do is to get them into dark fridges asap do you need to keep at room temp for secondary fermentation before getting them into fridge
As a professional brewer for over a quarter of a century I can say, without doubt, that there's a huge amount of misinformation being given here regarding the dissolved oxygen contents of canned versus bottled beers. In the past things may have been different but on modern lines the oxygen pickup when filling cans is lower than it is for bottles. (Note that I'm only talking about oxygen pickup at packaging as the beer itself will have a certain amount of dissolved oxygen prior to that depending on how it's handled before to packaging). The reason for that is exactly the opposite of what Jonny has stated. On a bottling line there is a tighter space allowing the oxygen to be purged, whereas with a can it's quite open. Keep in mind that although carbon dioxide is heavier than oxygen, gases that are in motion will remain mixed until they can settle. The can allows more foaming as it's filled, and thusly pushes away the oxygen more easily than in the closed neck of a bottle. For the larger professional brewers who have bottling lines that can purge the bottle with CO2 multiple times there's less of an issue, but their cans are still no worse. For smaller craft brewers it's almost always the case that their cans will have lower dissolved oxygen rates.
Hi Jim - thanks so much for the in depth comment and sorry you feel there is misinformation being presented here. Perhaps it is an indication of the difference between the packing quality in the US and UK, because we still see horrendous issues with canned beer from small brewers in this country - an issue made worse by the lack of cold chain in our distribution. The information I present here is based on studies and trials done at UK breweries, and on the fact that while modern canning lines have the capability to produce consistently very low DO levels, a lot of that is in the hands of the packaging person - the fob, temperature, speed, pressure, flow, and DO from tank and so on need to be understood and regularly monitored. In the UK that is not always the case, and with so many breweries relying on mobile canning lines, then the ideal set up for each beer is rarely achieved. So perhaps I should have been clearer - with cans the POTENTIAL for higher DO is greater, but so is the potential for lower DO when dialled in. I hope that clarifies my comments, and I'm delighted to hear in the States this is less of an issue!
Sorry, but you are still picking up oxygen, and I can still taste it, and I still don't want to buy IPAs that way. The technology does not exist to package in can or bottle oxygen free and it greatly diminishes the quality over time. Some people don't notice or just don't know better, so be it. But I have yet to have a neipa in a can that I can't taste oxidation. Some things are just meant to be served fresh at the brewery.
Great video on an interesting topic. There's so much research out there on what causes staling in beers but it almost feels a bit lost when you can show that just how it's stored can have such an impact! Would be really interesting to see something about unfiltered vs. filtered lager in the future, as yeast in the bottle is supposed to be one of the better ways of preventing that oxidation off-flavour forming. That and lagers being so sensitive to off flavours forming, I think it would be quite an interesting investigation! Another good point about cans is that the reduced weight of the packaging can have a pretty big impact on the transport emissions as well - can't remember the exact numbers but it was pretty profound!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I buy beer from a micro brewery local to me. It's on route to visiting family so there is a marginal impact for delivery as I pick it up directly. Once emptied I remove the labels and return the bottles for reused as the owner has a bottle cleaning machine. That is surely better for the environment than putting cans into recycling.
@@user-jt1jv8vl9r True. Standard long neck glass bottles are MUCH more recyclable and reuseable and glass is much more environmentally friendly than aluminum or any metal.
I did this with cans of Punk IPA a few years back, as I knew they were from the same batch. Put in the fridge, at room temperature and in a bathroom airing cupboard. The results were obvious between the fringe and airing cupboard, but they were still drinkable, and certainly shows that people could easily be buying and consuming beers often NOT as the brewery intended. Which means they don't get the experience (especially if at a higher price-point than macro beers) and won't do a repeat purchase, thinking it's a bad/boring beer.
Totally agree. It's why we often say on the channel that dismissing a beer after one experience isn't right - it could be badly looked after. It's a real issue for untappd.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel this is a good point. I bought a 4 pack of Jaipur from Tesco and didn't really enjoy it. Then I got a 4 pack direct from the brewery and was surprised to like it.
Surprised temperature makes such a big difference. It's also the hardest one to prevent. Obviously you can store it in the fridge once you get the beer home, but there's no telling how long it has spent in various warm store rooms, trucks and warehouses before it got to the store, and then it might have sat on the store shelves unrefrigerated for quite some time.
I love the experiment. I thought I could tell the difference between can and bottle but tested myself the other week and there was absolutely no difference I could detect when served from identical glasses. If you want to get "proper" sciencey about it: Pour two samples of each into opaque covertly marked cups. Pick three at random, as blind as possible. Mix these up as best you can. Try and pick the odd one out. Then try and say which the odd one out is. Then say which you prefer. Then record the results. Telling the participant if they were right is optional. Repeat with yourself and/or other people as many times as you can. Knowing which is from a bottle and which is from a can, could affect your perception.
@@scarharting5577 It's a test of the contents, not the container. The contents are the same (although can has less oxidation and zero skunking so it's a safer option). Which you prefer drinking out of is personal taste. We can't remove your personal taste from the experiment because you know during the test if you're drinking from a bottle or a can... Wait, didn't like Budweiser or something do aluminium bottles for a while? Maybe we could blindfold people and use the glass vs aluminium beer bottles? Someone else would have to pick it up... you could probably still tell by touching it with your lips. remove that and what's the point in comparing drinking from the containers? We could just add like a plastic snap on cover to your beer can to satiate those who don't like drinking from them? or the same with glass where you put your lips. Maybe even a plastic snap on cover that turns into a normal glass beer neck?! I don't see the point, but it could work.
awesome to hear your thoughts on this! it’s something i’ve been super curious about ever since first seeing “must be kept cold at all times” on a heady topper.
I bought a 2nd hand larder fridge for £40 on Gumtree. I have it in my garage and it can store approx 200 440ml cans. Great for stocking up when breweries like BBNo had their ridiculous sales of 50% off and 24 beers were £30 or less: 24 x No.05 for just £22!
Could you make a video testing storage conditions for sour beer? In particular lambic. Sometimes i find it difficult to tell if lambic/sour should actually taste like how it's meant to taste or if it's actually off
Light is really bad for hops, so that is why the last beer tastes that way, using an IPA for it speaks for itself. I wonder why the can never tasted sweeter than the bottle, it usually does (pasteurisation). Some breweries add Vitamin C under Filtration to reduce the oxygen. Great video.
I had a can of Jaipur from Tesco not long back and I didn't enjoy it. It was this legendary brilliant beer in the student union in 2007ish. I couldn't tell by having the can alone whether it was simply just nowhere near as good as it once was, whether it was just better from the pump or if it had been stored poorly.
Not sure if you have heard of the 3-30-300 rule, but I will always remember it. 98 degrees F for 3 days is equivalent to one stored at 72 degrees F for 30 days or one stored at 35 degrees F for 300 days.
Chemical reactions generally happen faster at warmer temperatures, including oxidation. So keeping beer cold is important. Direct sunlight has a warming effect in addition to the UV skunking. I would suspect that the brown bottle gets warmer than the shiny can, but I believe that anodized aluminium is pretty close to a "black body radiator" meaning that it readily emits and absorbs infra red radiation. The top of those cans look anodized. So maybe the cans don't actually fair any better in that regard.
@@scarharting5577 TLDR: the bottle gets the contents warmer 10 times faster in direct sunlight: Aluminium thermal conductivity is 237 W/(m·K) vs brown glass is more like 1 W/(m·K). So yes, ~237 times more thermally conductive. However did you know that many mirrors are made of aluminium as it can reflect 90% of sun light at less cost vs 95% for silver? Meaning that aluminium only absorbs ~10% of light Brown glass is only 5% reflective though, meaning that it has the potential to absorb 95% of the light, 19 times more energy from sunlight per unit area than the can does. Now factor in that the area of a circle is the square of the radius and that means that the narrow neck on a bottle increases it's surface area to volume ratio, meaning that it will have more area per L of beer to absorb that heat over. Roughly 30%, in fact. Stacking the 1.3x more surface area with 19 times more absorbance gives ~25 times more energy absorbed by the glass than the can. The thickness of a can is about 0.11mm, and a glass bottle can be about three times that. Meaning that the glass transmits about 2857 W/K through the thickness, and the aluminium 2154545 W/K. But the sun is only 1000W/m². And the can is about 0.00759 m², or ~7.6W of light vs the bottle 0.0096m² or 9.7W. But the bottle absorbs 95% of that being 9.2W vs the can absorbing 10% of 7.6W being 0.76W. 330ml can weight of 10.6g at a specific heat capacity of 0.9 J/(g.K) means the can goes up by 1K per 9.54J empty, That's 12.6s per K temp rise for the can aluminium material. 330ml brown glass beer bottle weighing 221g, at a specific heat capacity of 0.753 J/(g.K) means the bottle goes up by 1K per 166.4J empty, That's 18s per K temp rise for the bottle glass material. The conductivity is so high and the thickness so thin that the thermal conductivity is irrelevant at these low powers and temperature differences. So the can empty would get warm faster. But now factor in if it were full of beer (water for ease of maths). Water Specific heat capacity of 4200 J/kg.K, 0.33L = 1386 J/K. Aluminium can with 9.54J/K for the can in addition to the 330ml 1386 J/K= 1395.54 J/K at 0.76W, or 1836s per °C, or ~30 minutes. Bottle at 9.2W, 166.4 J/K in the bottle + the 1386 J/K from the contents = 1552.4 J/K. At 9.2W absorbance is 168s per °C. Or 2.8 minutes. Meaning that your glass bottle gets your beer hotter ~10 times faster than a shiny aluminium can. This is of course ignoring convection but that's the same for both. Also conduction, but put it on a white matt and you've solved that.
I’m going to be coming back to England for a month soon after being abroad for a few years. What would you say are the top five U.K. breweries to try first?!
I looked into canning recently but when I saw the cost of empty cans, I decided to stick with bottles. I have been using the same bottles for over 10 years.
For home brewing, yes. Because you are keeping your bottles, and reusing them, and the equipment is much less expensive. Where as cans, you are constantly buying the can and the top. The machine....like everything else, with more and more coming on the market, the prices are coming down, and are not nearly as pricey as they were even 2-3 yrs ago. For a brewery however, much less expensive to can, just on the cost of materials, and cost of shipping a pallet of cans vs a pallet of bottles, because breweries aren't getting either of them back. Also less breakage with cans, both before and after filling.
Greatly enjoyed the video, but I am sure I read somewhere that the recipes for Jaipur can, bottle and cask are slightly different. Has anyone else similar recollections or should I go and sit in a quiet, cool and dark place for a while?
My take away from this is that I need to persuade my misses to let me have another fridge 😂 I get complaints when the entire top shelf is taken up by beer 😬
@@TheCraftBeerChannel She’s been very patient. The last 3 months our bottom vegetable drawer has been full of the UKs finest! Now I’ve got a box sitting under the spare desk in my home office, which used to be a garage so it’s fairly cool.
I can attest to the difference between a product in a can versus a bottle when I used to drink Ballantine Ale. The hops presence came to life in the canned version of the ale and it was one of my favorite "hot day" beers to drink. That same ale packaged in a bottle lost that hops presence to an iodine-like bitterness and skunky aroma. This is only an anecdotal observation.
Only clear and green glass allows enough light to skunk beer, within a reasonable time frame of course. I'm old and I buy bottled brown bottle beer in bulk when it's on sale and I never once had beer in a brown bottle taste skunked.
Personal preference here, but for a bit thick imperial stout or saison, farmhouse, Flanders red or any sort of Belgian/German style beers, I prefer them out of the bottle. Bottles do a better job at preserving and aging beer, whereas cans I feel do a better job at preserving big hoppy NEIPAs and stop them from getting bad too quickly (no light can penetrate through the beer). But that’s personal preference.
I've never noticed with beer, but with wine my olfactory sense gets noticeably sharper. Obviously I will have to do an experiment drinking beer while cooking. Obviously. Damn, science can be tough.
The effect of temperature on hoppy beers is exactly why I won't buy supermarket shelf IPA under any circumstances any more. Some supermarkets are now introducing fridges specifically for their more "craft" beer, which is great to see and should be more common!
Remarkably in my local Tesco all the macro lager is in the fridge and the craft beers on the shelf - I get it because people want to drink their beers right out the door pretty much but it feels so backwards.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel after your macro lager blind taste test video I should think you're checking to see if they've got any Heineken in there!! 😂 That is very backwards.
@@sambloke1327 Where I live virtually every store has all their beer in coolers and beer caves. The only time you see warm beer is if they have a big sale, like recently when one store had Leinie's Original for $3.50 a sixer if you bought two. I bought a case and should have bought two.
Would be good to see an experiment with a thermocouple on a bottle and a can in sun light and see if either gets warmer than the other. If they're in water I'd guess no significant difference due to the ridiculous thermal conductivity and specific heat capacity of the water.
It would depend on what kind of wild ale (many are hoppy!) but in theory yes - and if you want to age a beer then doing it at 4C is going to be REALLY slow so best at cellar temp. Never store any beer above 14ish though. As for high ABV beer, that's not really a factor - many high ABV hoppy beers will suffer event worse.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Thanks. Yes, I meant high abv not hoppy beers vs low(er) abv not hoppy beers. The former is ok up to 14C? Then we get into the question of drinking temp vs storing temp, which is another can of worms/instructive video I guess!
Really thorough planning, and very helpful takeaways. I thought light would be much more harmful than it turned out to be. I was expecting a bit more can vs bottle debate, for instance for aging bottles or cans or storing barrel aged stuff, but maybe you can develop that side another time. Just one thing, next time please dial the background music a little bit down while you’re talking.
We've covered that a little here: ua-cam.com/video/CkSPjN3y62U/v-deo.html but essentially there's no real difference other than the beer should ideally be conditioned in package, which is pretty rare for cans
Nice video, but what really got me to comment is the t-shirt! I dig it! Good on you for showing your beliefs so openly on a platform like UA-cam, which can be super toxic at times! Though the craft beer community usually is a warm and welcoming one :)
Regarding the dark/warm, we know that UV light interacts with iso-alpha acids to produce 3MBT, but there are also hundreds of other closely related hop acid compounds that could interact in different ways with UV that science just has not investigated yet (I've written about some of them on the MTF wiki Hops page). However, can versus bottle might throw that hypothesis out. Small feedback, not a criticism, but a blind triangle would have also been interesting here (but a lot more work).
Great video, love these more "scientific" blind tastings. Warms my food scientist heart and beer lover heart at once! Could it be that the the beers stored cold and in light that the water in the cooler lessened the impact of the light due too refraction of the light? Would think that the sun would have had a larger impact. Maybe the colder temperature slowed down the process from the light. Maybe I will have to do a test of my own.
This is really kind of an easy conclusion to me. Bottles are far superior than cans. They are reusable, equipment needed to fill bottles and cap them is way cheaper, light is not an issue if you keep bottles boxed up or in the fridge (you do know the light in the fridge goes out when you shut the door right?).
Great test! Lightstruck in bottles is the worst, even just an hour or two and you can taste it. As far as Cans vs Bottles, in general, I filmed at Gigantic in Portland and the brewmaster Van had an interesting (and passionate) argument for bottles. The easy argument was that bottles are reusable - true. More interesting, and you brushed on this, he says that unless you have a very nice canning line it's difficult to keep oxygen out in the first place. So while cans keep oxygen out better than bottles, that doesn't matter if you're sealing it in at the start. And over a year, yes, a bottle will let more oxygen slip in than a can, but for IPAs, hopefully you've drank it long before then. Keep up the awesome videos!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Most breweries (besides the macros) have gone can only, for the most part... big stouts are definitely a common holdout, and I can't say I'm mad at that. Some people will still reuse the bottles. Even while I was there at Gigantic, there was a regular who rolled up with a car full of bottles to return, and I've seen people do the same at Sierra Nevada in Chico. Van specifically said he could get "around 28" cycles out of each single bottle.
I buy only longneck bottled beer and I often buy a lot when I can get it cheap. I store it in the basement, which is not particularly cool. I've never in my life had beer in a brown bottle get skunked. Not once. I've also had beer in the basement for months before drinking it and never once noticed any difference in taste or quality of any kind.
Depending on where you live they may not actually recycle better. Cans actually have a thin plastic lining on the inside which the recycling plant needs to be able to separate to recycle properly. Bottles however if properly handled can be reused directly. There's actually a brewery in Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada that has their own bottle recycling machine because of how expensive it is to ship containers up there and because they've found that it's easier to reuse bottles. Just remember that reduce, reuse, recycles is also in priority order.
Interesting when you said that the metallic taste doesn't come from the can - a couple of weeks ago I bought a crappy bottled lager from the supermarket (desperation) and it had that exact quality - something I'd always associated with the canning process
Really hate drinking from a can. Bottle is better, but a chilled glass so I can see the beer, is the best. From my experience, cans are better than bottles, unless a significant difference in storage has taken place, and time spent on the shelf.
Wow. Really striking that the differences are so pronounced after 48 hours. And it's so clear you'd expect a mere mortal palate to pick up the variations easily?
P.S. I've been ageing some beers for about 18 months. But they've moved flat with me, and never been at cellar temperature (at the back of cupboards, wherever's coolest in the flat, which hasn't always been super cool). Is it a waste of time trying to age beer that way? Will they already have gone a bit grim? They're all sensible beers to be ageing (I think?!) We're talking Belgian quads, barley wine, Orval, some imperial stout.
P.P.P.S. I just bought some mail order beer and used the 'stash it' option so I can get free postage later when they have more stuff I want. But what conditions are they likely to stash it in? Are my first cans of Bell's Two Hearted now getting warm somewhere? And will it even make much difference after their long journey over here?
Yes indeed totally noticeable for most palates I think. As for your other questions if you can't keep cellar temp I would not age any beer beyond the date on the bottle or can as then it will likely be ruined. As for your mail order beer that would depend on the company!
Dang! Emergency run down to the dark but warmish storeroom in our house to get both bottles & cans of 'research beer' into a nearby fridge. It's a no brainer really but your quasi-scientific exbeeriment underlines the importance of good cellaring!!!! Thanks for the nudge!!
Great video, but your labelling is wrong. Beer 3&4 are labelled 'Direct light, warm'
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There is a big debate here in our czech beer fan club that Pilsner is better in bottles. I prefer bottled ones. I assume bottled ones survive transport better.
Well when a beer is travelling, the format is almost irrelevant compared to the importance of the temp the beer is transported at. Even so, can is always going to be better for the beer - but not always noticeably. Unless you really dislike the action of drinking from can
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@@TheCraftBeerChannel I found that the bottled ones are much more fresh tasting "crispier" than the canned ones. BTW they are cheaper too. Maybe canned ones are kept longer in storage as much more fits onto a lorry.
@ shouldn’t this be probable by looking at some dates? When I worked at a bar there didn’t seem any difference in transport or logistics duration between cans & bottles…I reckon there’s a lot to say for bottles feeling nice to hold and touch your mouth on
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@@jonnowocky8179 I am not sure. But at home I always drink from the same glass beer jug
As far as I'm concerned there should be no argument. Cans are far superior. But drinking from a bottle is just a better experience. I always decant my cans if I can.
For me you forgot to mention my most important difference between bottles and cans; storage! I can store twice as many cans as bottles, stouts sit on top of each other quite happily in the cupboard, and lay next to each other nicely in the fridge. I've gotten to the point that a beer has to have a seriously good rating for me to consider buying more than one if it's in a can.
Bottle is always consistent, you mean. Glass transfers no taste or particles whatsoever to the beer. Of course, brown bottles should be used without exception, as light skunks the taste of beer.
Sorry, you bought 3 month old beer? or you bought them 3 months ago? Either way, how were they stored for that 3 months? Were they all stored the same way for those 3 months?
You hit on the real reason cans are better than bottles in the modern era. It is because they are lined. I went to Colorado School of Mines, which is in Golden, CO, and as a college student in the 80's spent a fair number of afternoons taking the "short tour" at the Coors brewery (Skipping the tour and going right to the bar for our 2 free beers). One of the things I did learn at the brewery from a few master brewers is that Coors would (at that time) put the best beer in kegs, then bar bottles (the returnable ones that aren't around anymore), then bottles, and then cans. From what I remember the story was that beer definitely picked up some hints of metal in the can and that the regular bottles didn't seal as well as the bar bottles. Plus they wanted the "best" beer where people would try it first, in a bar, which meant kegs or bar bottles. Also, bar bottles were made of thicker glass and didn't have twist-off tops, so they sealed better than bottles. Which was the first time I really noticed that bottles were definitely thinner than bar bottles, and it was explained that they coated the inside of the bottle with plastic to allow for thinner glass. But a side effect was that they couldn't crimp the bottle top on the thinner glass, and twist-offs didn't seal as well. It totally makes sense that they then got the bright idea to line the cans because that would eliminate the one downside to cans. But the old-school mentality of bottles being better than cans still persists to this day.
Great video, I had a Thorn bridge Coca Wonderland which has recently changed to can, was quite disappointed but could be that I usually buy in winter. Also suggests buying a great beer in bulk on offer is probably a bad idea if you have a normal sized fridge.
As always, a well thought out and educational video. For me, the most exciting part was that - finally - someone was suggesting that skunking might actually make a beer better. I don’t understand why I’ve had to live through this horrible era of sour beers, which honestly just give me the runs, when light strike produces an in-no-way harmful “off” flavor, yet no breweries have embraced it. Every time I’m forced to order any of the countless macro-lagers packaged in green or clear glass, I find myself praying, “Please, at least be skunked so that you don’t taste like nothing but dirty water!”
I think you chose the wrong beer for this test. I am sure I remember listening to hopinions at Peakender where they spoke to thornbridge who confirmed the yeast strain for bottle and can was different (think keg/can was the same and also bottle/cask was the same). You would have been better off getting budvar.
Interesting experiment. All in the interests of science of course. Once upon a time I would have dismissed cans but these days its beneficial I would say. And I ALWAYS decant into a glass. If only I had enough room for ideal conditioning of my brews. They are kept at very tight temperature control in my fermentation fridge but once bottled, they are stacked in crates in the garage. That, said they still taste great.
Hopstrike or lightstrike can occur almost immediately, especially in a green bottle! It would be interesting to see if Thornbridge would put some Jaipur in green bottles just to test the difference!
So the results suggest that all supermarket (and most bottle shop) beer is stored in a way that's going to very noticably damage the taste. I'd imagine most of it has sat on the shelves for at least 48 hours. I've had some very bad cans from pretty reliable breweries over the years so suspected this might be the case, but figured the dodgy cans had been stored in a more extreme condition (sat next to a radiator or something) before being shelved.
Absolutely - we rarely buy hoppy or lager beer that has been kept on a warm shelf. Though to be fair, these would be comparable to the cold and warm storage, which wasn't HALF as bad as the one exposed to warmer temps.
Absolutely not - unless intentionally ageing a beer or serving it at a specific warmer temperature, ALL beer should be kept cold as this experiment, and countless peer reviewed studies show!
modern cans have the advantage of eliminating light, almost eliminating Ox and swings in temperature are your own damn fault. Use brown bottles if you can but don't even bother with green bottles. You beer will "skunk" on your purveyors shelf
15:25 - Dark and warm = Muddled and muted flavor. Hops not as bright, malt not as nuanced. Perhaps a bit more flabby. But not at all skunked. I'd be surprised if it was significantly different than "indirect light, warm"
I've had cans of beer expand and explode while stored in a room about 90 degrees F. Never had this happen to soda or bottled beer. Carpet ruined with permanent dark stains because they were porters.... beware.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I shall have to do a taste test, the temperature of which beer is served has always been a huge debate. At the Thornbridge tap room (which I am sure you have visited) I believe Jaipur is served on a cask line. I am not against beer served chilled ,it all depends beer, the DDH Jaipur, Bliss Point or Halcyon is best served at fridge temperature but I would not drink Cocoa Wonderland or Market Porter at these temperatures. Thanks CZ (the beer monster)
Cans are the better option, no oxygen, no light, put them in the fridge and no warmth. Taking cans when tubing down the river, or hiking up a mountain, is easier than bottles, and you don't have to keep a track of bottle tops. Also find cans easier to stash in the beer fridge that bottles, and of course by easier I mean I can get more in.
I got a canning machine for my homebrew. I’m constantly sending out beer to mates around the country and shipping cans is much easier. I purge well with Co2 and cap on foam and results are pretty decent
Was going to say, cap on foam and you don't have oxygen exposure issues with either, apart from crown cap leakage, unless you wax seal.
Can’t help but think that seeing which vessel the beer came out of had the chance of influencing your experience. We are all human after all :)
Yeah, I would love to have seen this as a "true" blind test with no pairs (randomize the order completely), and the vessel being blind also.
Thanks for the beer temperature evaluation. Back in 1986 I forgot that I left a case of homemade beer bottle conditioned for a year in my closet in Killeen, Texas. It was and still is the best beer I have every tasted! I called my Platoon Sergeant that served 5 years in Germany to tell him what I found; he was already a fan of my Germany style beer which he said "... tasted better than any beer he drank in Germany ...". Sargent Majo arrived 20 minutes later. I broke out my shot glasses! We were going to savor every drop of this beer. An hour later: We had drank 4 12 oz bottles. The best description of the taste: "If angels set a table for god - This is what god drank."
The making of the beer was old school: No filtering, poured each bottled from the fermenter with the yeast and hops, screwed on caps to the bottles, and placed in case cardboard beer box. Since then, I have not had a beer go 3 months without drinking it. My daughter made a beer, 64 oz bottle in December that I will not open til June 2023. This will be the most aged beer I have had in 37 years. Gulf War Veteran 1990-91.
I have two fridges in my house. One is for food and one is for beer!
The labels weren’t right near the end. 3 and 4 both said “direct light, warm” above them.
I love Thornbridge! Had one in the only Thornbridge in The Netherlands in Den Bosch. Brings back some lovely memories from there
Can you please do this again with stouts in winter (or just wait a few weeks)? Likewise barleywines, if you ever needed an excuse to have more barleywines!
We are blessed here in the village of lewiston New York “brewed and bottled” our local bottle shop keeps everything in coolers. So the only question is how it is transported. Great video Johnny. Hope all is well with Brad.👍🏻🍻
Brilliant video, so can I be safe to say the best thing to do is to get them into dark fridges asap do you need to keep at room temp for secondary fermentation before getting them into fridge
Thank you for this explanation. What is the best temperature to drink beer and lager?
Well waddya know, we've got a video on that too! ua-cam.com/video/xu6dukmy7rc/v-deo.html
As a professional brewer for over a quarter of a century I can say, without doubt, that there's a huge amount of misinformation being given here regarding the dissolved oxygen contents of canned versus bottled beers. In the past things may have been different but on modern lines the oxygen pickup when filling cans is lower than it is for bottles. (Note that I'm only talking about oxygen pickup at packaging as the beer itself will have a certain amount of dissolved oxygen prior to that depending on how it's handled before to packaging). The reason for that is exactly the opposite of what Jonny has stated. On a bottling line there is a tighter space allowing the oxygen to be purged, whereas with a can it's quite open. Keep in mind that although carbon dioxide is heavier than oxygen, gases that are in motion will remain mixed until they can settle. The can allows more foaming as it's filled, and thusly pushes away the oxygen more easily than in the closed neck of a bottle. For the larger professional brewers who have bottling lines that can purge the bottle with CO2 multiple times there's less of an issue, but their cans are still no worse. For smaller craft brewers it's almost always the case that their cans will have lower dissolved oxygen rates.
You sound like you belong on reddit mate. Let me guess, you’re a lawyer as well, aren’t you?
@@robertnicolae1882 If his name is accurate, that matches up with a packaging manager at Flying Fish.
Hi Jim - thanks so much for the in depth comment and sorry you feel there is misinformation being presented here. Perhaps it is an indication of the difference between the packing quality in the US and UK, because we still see horrendous issues with canned beer from small brewers in this country - an issue made worse by the lack of cold chain in our distribution. The information I present here is based on studies and trials done at UK breweries, and on the fact that while modern canning lines have the capability to produce consistently very low DO levels, a lot of that is in the hands of the packaging person - the fob, temperature, speed, pressure, flow, and DO from tank and so on need to be understood and regularly monitored. In the UK that is not always the case, and with so many breweries relying on mobile canning lines, then the ideal set up for each beer is rarely achieved. So perhaps I should have been clearer - with cans the POTENTIAL for higher DO is greater, but so is the potential for lower DO when dialled in. I hope that clarifies my comments, and I'm delighted to hear in the States this is less of an issue!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Come to Colorado. Some of the best micros in the world ;). Cans are best here.
Sorry, but you are still picking up oxygen, and I can still taste it, and I still don't want to buy IPAs that way. The technology does not exist to package in can or bottle oxygen free and it greatly diminishes the quality over time. Some people don't notice or just don't know better, so be it. But I have yet to have a neipa in a can that I can't taste oxidation. Some things are just meant to be served fresh at the brewery.
I tend to keep mine in a cool garage in the box until I’ve got room in the fridge. Really helpful video
Would like to try Jaipur IPA, but doesn’t seem to be sold anywhere near me in Southern California
Great video on an interesting topic. There's so much research out there on what causes staling in beers but it almost feels a bit lost when you can show that just how it's stored can have such an impact! Would be really interesting to see something about unfiltered vs. filtered lager in the future, as yeast in the bottle is supposed to be one of the better ways of preventing that oxidation off-flavour forming. That and lagers being so sensitive to off flavours forming, I think it would be quite an interesting investigation!
Another good point about cans is that the reduced weight of the packaging can have a pretty big impact on the transport emissions as well - can't remember the exact numbers but it was pretty profound!
Absolutely - we didn't dig into the environmental side but cans are much, much better
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I buy beer from a micro brewery local to me. It's on route to visiting family so there is a marginal impact for delivery as I pick it up directly. Once emptied I remove the labels and return the bottles for reused as the owner has a bottle cleaning machine. That is surely better for the environment than putting cans into recycling.
@@user-jt1jv8vl9r True. Standard long neck glass bottles are MUCH more recyclable and reuseable and glass is much more environmentally friendly than aluminum or any metal.
You could use a UV light to expose them both to a measured quantity of light without the solar heating aspect?
I did this with cans of Punk IPA a few years back, as I knew they were from the same batch. Put in the fridge, at room temperature and in a bathroom airing cupboard. The results were obvious between the fringe and airing cupboard, but they were still drinkable, and certainly shows that people could easily be buying and consuming beers often NOT as the brewery intended. Which means they don't get the experience (especially if at a higher price-point than macro beers) and won't do a repeat purchase, thinking it's a bad/boring beer.
Totally agree. It's why we often say on the channel that dismissing a beer after one experience isn't right - it could be badly looked after. It's a real issue for untappd.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel this is a good point. I bought a 4 pack of Jaipur from Tesco and didn't really enjoy it. Then I got a 4 pack direct from the brewery and was surprised to like it.
beer fridge for the win! It's pretty common where I live to have a second fridge in your garage just for beverages.
Missing the spreadsheet scoring system. Nice graphic to see the differences. Interesting video anyway.
Surprised temperature makes such a big difference. It's also the hardest one to prevent. Obviously you can store it in the fridge once you get the beer home, but there's no telling how long it has spent in various warm store rooms, trucks and warehouses before it got to the store, and then it might have sat on the store shelves unrefrigerated for quite some time.
I've noticed beer from my local liquor store tastes significantly better than the nearest large grocery chain
But haven't all the beers already been kept for months in potentially light and warm(ish) places? I.e supermarkets.
I love the experiment. I thought I could tell the difference between can and bottle but tested myself the other week and there was absolutely no difference I could detect when served from identical glasses. If you want to get "proper" sciencey about it:
Pour two samples of each into opaque covertly marked cups.
Pick three at random, as blind as possible.
Mix these up as best you can.
Try and pick the odd one out.
Then try and say which the odd one out is.
Then say which you prefer.
Then record the results. Telling the participant if they were right is optional.
Repeat with yourself and/or other people as many times as you can.
Knowing which is from a bottle and which is from a can, could affect your perception.
Well, it's not a test if you aren't drinking them out of the can and the bottle, is it?
@@scarharting5577 It's a test of the contents, not the container. The contents are the same (although can has less oxidation and zero skunking so it's a safer option).
Which you prefer drinking out of is personal taste. We can't remove your personal taste from the experiment because you know during the test if you're drinking from a bottle or a can...
Wait, didn't like Budweiser or something do aluminium bottles for a while? Maybe we could blindfold people and use the glass vs aluminium beer bottles? Someone else would have to pick it up... you could probably still tell by touching it with your lips. remove that and what's the point in comparing drinking from the containers?
We could just add like a plastic snap on cover to your beer can to satiate those who don't like drinking from them? or the same with glass where you put your lips. Maybe even a plastic snap on cover that turns into a normal glass beer neck?! I don't see the point, but it could work.
awesome to hear your thoughts on this! it’s something i’ve been super curious about ever since first seeing “must be kept cold at all times” on a heady topper.
I bought a 2nd hand larder fridge for £40 on Gumtree. I have it in my garage and it can store approx 200 440ml cans. Great for stocking up when breweries like BBNo had their ridiculous sales of 50% off and 24 beers were £30 or less: 24 x No.05 for just £22!
Could you make a video testing storage conditions for sour beer? In particular lambic. Sometimes i find it difficult to tell if lambic/sour should actually taste like how it's meant to taste or if it's actually off
Light is really bad for hops, so that is why the last beer tastes that way, using an IPA for it speaks for itself. I wonder why the can never tasted sweeter than the bottle, it usually does (pasteurisation). Some breweries add Vitamin C under Filtration to reduce the oxygen. Great video.
I had a can of Jaipur from Tesco not long back and I didn't enjoy it. It was this legendary brilliant beer in the student union in 2007ish. I couldn't tell by having the can alone whether it was simply just nowhere near as good as it once was, whether it was just better from the pump or if it had been stored poorly.
Well the recipe has been identical since it was first brewed save for some yeast experiments around 2010 so very likely it was a badly kept can!
Not sure if you have heard of the 3-30-300 rule, but I will always remember it. 98 degrees F for 3 days is equivalent to one stored at 72 degrees F for 30 days or one stored at 35 degrees F for 300 days.
I keep all mine in the fridge 8c only time there's light is the led when I'm in there to pick one 🙂
Chemical reactions generally happen faster at warmer temperatures, including oxidation. So keeping beer cold is important. Direct sunlight has a warming effect in addition to the UV skunking. I would suspect that the brown bottle gets warmer than the shiny can, but I believe that anodized aluminium is pretty close to a "black body radiator" meaning that it readily emits and absorbs infra red radiation. The top of those cans look anodized. So maybe the cans don't actually fair any better in that regard.
Metal conducts heat much more readily than glass.
@@scarharting5577 TLDR: the bottle gets the contents warmer 10 times faster in direct sunlight:
Aluminium thermal conductivity is 237 W/(m·K) vs brown glass is more like 1 W/(m·K). So yes, ~237 times more thermally conductive.
However did you know that many mirrors are made of aluminium as it can reflect 90% of sun light at less cost vs 95% for silver? Meaning that aluminium only absorbs ~10% of light
Brown glass is only 5% reflective though, meaning that it has the potential to absorb 95% of the light, 19 times more energy from sunlight per unit area than the can does.
Now factor in that the area of a circle is the square of the radius and that means that the narrow neck on a bottle increases it's surface area to volume ratio, meaning that it will have more area per L of beer to absorb that heat over. Roughly 30%, in fact.
Stacking the 1.3x more surface area with 19 times more absorbance gives ~25 times more energy absorbed by the glass than the can.
The thickness of a can is about 0.11mm, and a glass bottle can be about three times that. Meaning that the glass transmits about 2857 W/K through the thickness, and the aluminium 2154545 W/K.
But the sun is only 1000W/m². And the can is about 0.00759 m², or ~7.6W of light vs the bottle 0.0096m² or 9.7W.
But the bottle absorbs 95% of that being 9.2W vs the can absorbing 10% of 7.6W being 0.76W.
330ml can weight of 10.6g at a specific heat capacity of 0.9 J/(g.K) means the can goes up by 1K per 9.54J empty, That's 12.6s per K temp rise for the can aluminium material.
330ml brown glass beer bottle weighing 221g, at a specific heat capacity of 0.753 J/(g.K) means the bottle goes up by 1K per 166.4J empty, That's 18s per K temp rise for the bottle glass material.
The conductivity is so high and the thickness so thin that the thermal conductivity is irrelevant at these low powers and temperature differences.
So the can empty would get warm faster. But now factor in if it were full of beer (water for ease of maths). Water Specific heat capacity of 4200 J/kg.K, 0.33L = 1386 J/K.
Aluminium can with 9.54J/K for the can in addition to the 330ml 1386 J/K= 1395.54 J/K at 0.76W, or 1836s per °C, or ~30 minutes.
Bottle at 9.2W, 166.4 J/K in the bottle + the 1386 J/K from the contents = 1552.4 J/K. At 9.2W absorbance is 168s per °C. Or 2.8 minutes.
Meaning that your glass bottle gets your beer hotter ~10 times faster than a shiny aluminium can.
This is of course ignoring convection but that's the same for both. Also conduction, but put it on a white matt and you've solved that.
I’m going to be coming back to England for a month soon after being abroad for a few years. What would you say are the top five U.K. breweries to try first?!
Is it ok to keep hazy IPAs between 1-4C? I have a beer cooler and the temp varies slightly from top to bottom.
All beers that I purchase go in the fridge, unless they're stouts or porters (because I prefer to drink those at cellar temperature.)
I looked into canning recently but when I saw the cost of empty cans, I decided to stick with bottles. I have been using the same bottles for over 10 years.
For home brewing, yes. Because you are keeping your bottles, and reusing them, and the equipment is much less expensive. Where as cans, you are constantly buying the can and the top. The machine....like everything else, with more and more coming on the market, the prices are coming down, and are not nearly as pricey as they were even 2-3 yrs ago.
For a brewery however, much less expensive to can, just on the cost of materials, and cost of shipping a pallet of cans vs a pallet of bottles, because breweries aren't getting either of them back. Also less breakage with cans, both before and after filling.
Massively helpful, thanks, beer fridge it is. 👍
Greatly enjoyed the video, but I am sure I read somewhere that the recipes for Jaipur can, bottle and cask are slightly different. Has anyone else similar recollections or should I go and sit in a quiet, cool and dark place for a while?
My take away from this is that I need to persuade my misses to let me have another fridge 😂 I get complaints when the entire top shelf is taken up by beer 😬
Had the same conversation with my Wife last weekend!
Haha - don't mention the extra energy costs
@@TheCraftBeerChannel She’s been very patient. The last 3 months our bottom vegetable drawer has been full of the UKs finest!
Now I’ve got a box sitting under the spare desk in my home office, which used to be a garage so it’s fairly cool.
Hear hear I only have a small part of the door of the fridge. I mostly use the utility for beer storage.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I'll just get a small one 🤫
I can attest to the difference between a product in a can versus a bottle when I used to drink Ballantine Ale. The hops presence came to life in the canned version of the ale and it was one of my favorite "hot day" beers to drink. That same ale packaged in a bottle lost that hops presence to an iodine-like bitterness and skunky aroma. This is only an anecdotal observation.
Only clear and green glass allows enough light to skunk beer, within a reasonable time frame of course. I'm old and I buy bottled brown bottle beer in bulk when it's on sale and I never once had beer in a brown bottle taste skunked.
Personal preference here, but for a bit thick imperial stout or saison, farmhouse, Flanders red or any sort of Belgian/German style beers, I prefer them out of the bottle. Bottles do a better job at preserving and aging beer, whereas cans I feel do a better job at preserving big hoppy NEIPAs and stop them from getting bad too quickly (no light can penetrate through the beer). But that’s personal preference.
Not just personal preference - plenty of science to back that up with regards to mixed ferm and bottle conditioned beers such as most Belgian ales!
Very interesting. But the brewery uses a different yeast for cask , bottle and can . Said Rob Lovatt the Thornbridge Head Brewer.
I've never noticed with beer, but with wine my olfactory sense gets noticeably sharper. Obviously I will have to do an experiment drinking beer while cooking. Obviously. Damn, science can be tough.
I presume you have and I might have missed it but did you serve the beers at the same temperature?
Absolutely. All chilled to 4c before serving
His reaction when he tried misborn 😂 😂 “it’s like a yogurt you find in the back of your fridge” 😂🙌🏼
Cool Dark Is The Best! 🤔👍✌️❤️
Thanks!
Thanks so much!
The effect of temperature on hoppy beers is exactly why I won't buy supermarket shelf IPA under any circumstances any more. Some supermarkets are now introducing fridges specifically for their more "craft" beer, which is great to see and should be more common!
Remarkably in my local Tesco all the macro lager is in the fridge and the craft beers on the shelf - I get it because people want to drink their beers right out the door pretty much but it feels so backwards.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel after your macro lager blind taste test video I should think you're checking to see if they've got any Heineken in there!! 😂 That is very backwards.
@@sambloke1327 Where I live virtually every store has all their beer in coolers and beer caves. The only time you see warm beer is if they have a big sale, like recently when one store had Leinie's Original for $3.50 a sixer if you bought two. I bought a case and should have bought two.
I wonder how cold is cold enough. Are cellar temps cool enough?
There have been studies into this, and the lower the temp the slower the degradation but it basically crawls to a stop around 4C.
Would be good to see an experiment with a thermocouple on a bottle and a can in sun light and see if either gets warmer than the other. If they're in water I'd guess no significant difference due to the ridiculous thermal conductivity and specific heat capacity of the water.
Need to keep food in the fridge? Britts don't have a dedicated beer fridge? i mean not everybody in the US has them, but it's pretty common.
Are mixed/wild ferm and high abv beers the exception?
It would depend on what kind of wild ale (many are hoppy!) but in theory yes - and if you want to age a beer then doing it at 4C is going to be REALLY slow so best at cellar temp. Never store any beer above 14ish though. As for high ABV beer, that's not really a factor - many high ABV hoppy beers will suffer event worse.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Thanks. Yes, I meant high abv not hoppy beers vs low(er) abv not hoppy beers. The former is ok up to 14C? Then we get into the question of drinking temp vs storing temp, which is another can of worms/instructive video I guess!
Really thorough planning, and very helpful takeaways. I thought light would be much more harmful than it turned out to be. I was expecting a bit more can vs bottle debate, for instance for aging bottles or cans or storing barrel aged stuff, but maybe you can develop that side another time. Just one thing, next time please dial the background music a little bit down while you’re talking.
We've covered that a little here: ua-cam.com/video/CkSPjN3y62U/v-deo.html but essentially there's no real difference other than the beer should ideally be conditioned in package, which is pretty rare for cans
Nice video, but what really got me to comment is the t-shirt! I dig it!
Good on you for showing your beliefs so openly on a platform like UA-cam, which can be super toxic at times! Though the craft beer community usually is a warm and welcoming one :)
Great video! But also yoooo is that one of Ren's shirts! Nice!
Regarding the dark/warm, we know that UV light interacts with iso-alpha acids to produce 3MBT, but there are also hundreds of other closely related hop acid compounds that could interact in different ways with UV that science just has not investigated yet (I've written about some of them on the MTF wiki Hops page). However, can versus bottle might throw that hypothesis out. Small feedback, not a criticism, but a blind triangle would have also been interesting here (but a lot more work).
14:30 So number 4 = Direct light, cold. Correct? I think you mislabeled number 4 on the video.
Apologies
Gotta love the sightglass of the GF HLT. I'm assuming Brad bumped into it ? 🤣
Haha nah that was Jonny! Knocked it off the trolley.
Two fridges. One for beer mostly and some extra other things. One for food.
This explains why when I buy this beer in Tesco its not as great as other times I've had it.
Exactly! I wish supermarkets put their beer in fridges.
Great video, love these more "scientific" blind tastings. Warms my food scientist heart and beer lover heart at once!
Could it be that the the beers stored cold and in light that the water in the cooler lessened the impact of the light due too refraction of the light? Would think that the sun would have had a larger impact. Maybe the colder temperature slowed down the process from the light. Maybe I will have to do a test of my own.
This is really kind of an easy conclusion to me. Bottles are far superior than cans. They are reusable, equipment needed to fill bottles and cap them is way cheaper, light is not an issue if you keep bottles boxed up or in the fridge (you do know the light in the fridge goes out when you shut the door right?).
Plus, brown bottle beer never gets skunked. Why any brewer would use clear or green is beyond me.
As a Ph.D student, I am both excited and irritated by your experiments here!
Hahaha any tips on how to improve them let me know!
Great test! Lightstruck in bottles is the worst, even just an hour or two and you can taste it. As far as Cans vs Bottles, in general, I filmed at Gigantic in Portland and the brewmaster Van had an interesting (and passionate) argument for bottles. The easy argument was that bottles are reusable - true. More interesting, and you brushed on this, he says that unless you have a very nice canning line it's difficult to keep oxygen out in the first place. So while cans keep oxygen out better than bottles, that doesn't matter if you're sealing it in at the start. And over a year, yes, a bottle will let more oxygen slip in than a can, but for IPAs, hopefully you've drank it long before then.
Keep up the awesome videos!
Reusable is indeed true... but do any breweries in the States actually do that? Very few countries do outside the EU.
Not forgetting that most countries can recycle cans indefinitely.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Most breweries (besides the macros) have gone can only, for the most part... big stouts are definitely a common holdout, and I can't say I'm mad at that. Some people will still reuse the bottles. Even while I was there at Gigantic, there was a regular who rolled up with a car full of bottles to return, and I've seen people do the same at Sierra Nevada in Chico. Van specifically said he could get "around 28" cycles out of each single bottle.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel none in the US, our “recycling” is uhhh not really a thing
I buy only longneck bottled beer and I often buy a lot when I can get it cheap. I store it in the basement, which is not particularly cool. I've never in my life had beer in a brown bottle get skunked. Not once. I've also had beer in the basement for months before drinking it and never once noticed any difference in taste or quality of any kind.
I love drinking beer watching youtube videos of people drinking beer
Lol, I was literally googling this quistion last night... Uhm, thanks I guess 😁
I just like cans because they are lighter in the recycling bin (and actually recycle better) haha
Depending on where you live they may not actually recycle better. Cans actually have a thin plastic lining on the inside which the recycling plant needs to be able to separate to recycle properly. Bottles however if properly handled can be reused directly. There's actually a brewery in Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada that has their own bottle recycling machine because of how expensive it is to ship containers up there and because they've found that it's easier to reuse bottles.
Just remember that reduce, reuse, recycles is also in priority order.
Lately I've been seeing beer in cans more often than in bottles.
Interesting when you said that the metallic taste doesn't come from the can - a couple of weeks ago I bought a crappy bottled lager from the supermarket (desperation) and it had that exact quality - something I'd always associated with the canning process
Really hate drinking from a can. Bottle is better, but a chilled glass so I can see the beer, is the best. From my experience, cans are better than bottles, unless a significant difference in storage has taken place, and time spent on the shelf.
Wow. Really striking that the differences are so pronounced after 48 hours. And it's so clear you'd expect a mere mortal palate to pick up the variations easily?
P.S. I've been ageing some beers for about 18 months. But they've moved flat with me, and never been at cellar temperature (at the back of cupboards, wherever's coolest in the flat, which hasn't always been super cool). Is it a waste of time trying to age beer that way? Will they already have gone a bit grim? They're all sensible beers to be ageing (I think?!) We're talking Belgian quads, barley wine, Orval, some imperial stout.
P.P.S. I think you've got a mistake on one of your graphics (the coolbox)?
P.P.P.S. I just bought some mail order beer and used the 'stash it' option so I can get free postage later when they have more stuff I want. But what conditions are they likely to stash it in? Are my first cans of Bell's Two Hearted now getting warm somewhere? And will it even make much difference after their long journey over here?
Yes indeed totally noticeable for most palates I think. As for your other questions if you can't keep cellar temp I would not age any beer beyond the date on the bottle or can as then it will likely be ruined. As for your mail order beer that would depend on the company!
Thanks 😊
Dang! Emergency run down to the dark but warmish storeroom in our house to get both bottles & cans of 'research beer' into a nearby fridge. It's a no brainer really but your quasi-scientific exbeeriment underlines the importance of good cellaring!!!! Thanks for the nudge!!
Conclusion. Cold/dark best, constant temp ok, variable temp especially with warmth bad.
I’m concerned buying beer from supermarkets, not knowing how long the beer has been on the shelves for
Quite right! We don't buy anything other than imperial stouts/barley wines and mix ferm beer if it's ambient.
I'm here drinking The Kernel Pale Ale with Vic Secret Mosaic and Citra.
God damn that's good.
(I have a fridge just for IPA storage though)
Kernel are proof the storage matters more than the vessel!
Great video, but your labelling is wrong. Beer 3&4 are labelled 'Direct light, warm'
There is a big debate here in our czech beer fan club that Pilsner is better in bottles.
I prefer bottled ones.
I assume bottled ones survive transport better.
Well when a beer is travelling, the format is almost irrelevant compared to the importance of the temp the beer is transported at. Even so, can is always going to be better for the beer - but not always noticeably. Unless you really dislike the action of drinking from can
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I found that the bottled ones are much more fresh tasting "crispier" than the canned ones.
BTW they are cheaper too.
Maybe canned ones are kept longer in storage as much more fits onto a lorry.
@ shouldn’t this be probable by looking at some dates? When I worked at a bar there didn’t seem any difference in transport or logistics duration between cans & bottles…I reckon there’s a lot to say for bottles feeling nice to hold and touch your mouth on
@@jonnowocky8179 I am not sure. But at home I always drink from the same glass beer jug
Sorry my English is bad and im too lazy can someone please answer: is there a difference between Heineken in a bottle and in a can? Thanks 🙏🏻
Yes. The bottle will have lightstrike (skunky weedy aroma). The cans won't.
glad to see you used Jaipur agood go to beer, but the argument about bottle or can that could rage on for eternity
As far as I'm concerned there should be no argument. Cans are far superior. But drinking from a bottle is just a better experience. I always decant my cans if I can.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel completely agree - nicer to drink out of a bottle but beer from cans is better!
@@jamesedwards5196 nicest though is to drink from a glass, no drinking beer directly from bottle or cans for me!
@@irrlicht6997 oh, 100%!
And the main thing we've learned, is that if you keep Jaipur correctly, it's still a banging beer. 🍻
For me you forgot to mention my most important difference between bottles and cans; storage! I can store twice as many cans as bottles, stouts sit on top of each other quite happily in the cupboard, and lay next to each other nicely in the fridge. I've gotten to the point that a beer has to have a seriously good rating for me to consider buying more than one if it's in a can.
Psychologically I’d choose a bottle as it feels more premium. But stepping back to think taste wise can is always consistent and tastes good.
Bottle is always consistent, you mean. Glass transfers no taste or particles whatsoever to the beer. Of course, brown bottles should be used without exception, as light skunks the taste of beer.
Sorry, you bought 3 month old beer? or you bought them 3 months ago?
Either way, how were they stored for that 3 months? Were they all stored the same way for those 3 months?
I bought three-month-old beer direct from the brewery where it is cold stored.
You hit on the real reason cans are better than bottles in the modern era. It is because they are lined. I went to Colorado School of Mines, which is in Golden, CO, and as a college student in the 80's spent a fair number of afternoons taking the "short tour" at the Coors brewery (Skipping the tour and going right to the bar for our 2 free beers). One of the things I did learn at the brewery from a few master brewers is that Coors would (at that time) put the best beer in kegs, then bar bottles (the returnable ones that aren't around anymore), then bottles, and then cans. From what I remember the story was that beer definitely picked up some hints of metal in the can and that the regular bottles didn't seal as well as the bar bottles. Plus they wanted the "best" beer where people would try it first, in a bar, which meant kegs or bar bottles. Also, bar bottles were made of thicker glass and didn't have twist-off tops, so they sealed better than bottles. Which was the first time I really noticed that bottles were definitely thinner than bar bottles, and it was explained that they coated the inside of the bottle with plastic to allow for thinner glass. But a side effect was that they couldn't crimp the bottle top on the thinner glass, and twist-offs didn't seal as well. It totally makes sense that they then got the bright idea to line the cans because that would eliminate the one downside to cans. But the old-school mentality of bottles being better than cans still persists to this day.
Great video, I had a Thorn bridge Coca Wonderland which has recently changed to can, was quite disappointed but could be that I usually buy in winter.
Also suggests buying a great beer in bulk on offer is probably a bad idea if you have a normal sized fridge.
As always, a well thought out and educational video.
For me, the most exciting part was that - finally - someone was suggesting that skunking might actually make a beer better. I don’t understand why I’ve had to live through this horrible era of sour beers, which honestly just give me the runs, when light strike produces an in-no-way harmful “off” flavor, yet no breweries have embraced it. Every time I’m forced to order any of the countless macro-lagers packaged in green or clear glass, I find myself praying, “Please, at least be skunked so that you don’t taste like nothing but dirty water!”
No one is going to agree with you that beer that tastes like skunk spray is drinkable. No one.
I think you chose the wrong beer for this test. I am sure I remember listening to hopinions at Peakender where they spoke to thornbridge who confirmed the yeast strain for bottle and can was different (think keg/can was the same and also bottle/cask was the same). You would have been better off getting budvar.
Fairly sure the yeast strain for bottle and can is the same - it is different for cask.
Interesting experiment. All in the interests of science of course. Once upon a time I would have dismissed cans but these days its beneficial I would say. And I ALWAYS decant into a glass. If only I had enough room for ideal conditioning of my brews. They are kept at very tight temperature control in my fermentation fridge but once bottled, they are stacked in crates in the garage. That, said they still taste great.
TQ sir
Only 48 hours?! I thought it would have been at least a couple of months...
I think the result would be far to obvious in that scenario, this way not only does it test Jonny out but proves 48 hours is all it takes.
Indeed. And to be honest, I'd expect the difference to be there (if subtle) after only a matter of hours between the direct sun/warm and fridge.
Hopstrike or lightstrike can occur almost immediately, especially in a green bottle! It would be interesting to see if Thornbridge would put some Jaipur in green bottles just to test the difference!
"All good beer should be in brown bottles"... oh boy, here come the Saison Dupont fanatics...
What's real weird is the small Dupont bottles are brown and the large are green?!
I mean... this whole problem would go away if we just...drank cask 😅
So the results suggest that all supermarket (and most bottle shop) beer is stored in a way that's going to very noticably damage the taste. I'd imagine most of it has sat on the shelves for at least 48 hours. I've had some very bad cans from pretty reliable breweries over the years so suspected this might be the case, but figured the dodgy cans had been stored in a more extreme condition (sat next to a radiator or something) before being shelved.
Absolutely - we rarely buy hoppy or lager beer that has been kept on a warm shelf. Though to be fair, these would be comparable to the cold and warm storage, which wasn't HALF as bad as the one exposed to warmer temps.
48 hours makes no difference whatsoever.
Only lager needs to be kept cold when stored.
Absolutely not - unless intentionally ageing a beer or serving it at a specific warmer temperature, ALL beer should be kept cold as this experiment, and countless peer reviewed studies show!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel no
@@Desh727 ...yes?
@@TheCraftBeerChannel is that a question?
i had a simple solution, just head to your local and have a fresh pulled pint? And i do like a fresh Jaipur
I like beer cans for their convenience but I swear Heineken from a can and from a bottle tatse completely different to me.
But which do you find better?
Draft!!!
modern cans have the advantage of eliminating light, almost eliminating Ox and swings in temperature are your own damn fault. Use brown bottles if you can but don't even bother with green bottles. You beer will "skunk" on your purveyors shelf
15:25 - Dark and warm = Muddled and muted flavor. Hops not as bright, malt not as nuanced. Perhaps a bit more flabby. But not at all skunked. I'd be surprised if it was significantly different than "indirect light, warm"
I've had cans of beer expand and explode while stored in a room about 90 degrees F. Never had this happen to soda or bottled beer. Carpet ruined with permanent dark stains because they were porters.... beware.
Jaipur best IPA ever, to me best stored dark between 8 & 12 degrees, if refrigerated you will lose the hop flavour
If served at fridge temps you might mute it, but I can assure you it needs to be STORED as cold as possible. Lots of data studies to back that up!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I shall have to do a taste test, the temperature of which beer is served has always been a huge debate. At the Thornbridge tap room (which I am sure you have visited) I believe Jaipur is served on a cask line. I am not against beer served chilled ,it all depends beer, the DDH Jaipur, Bliss Point or Halcyon is best served at fridge temperature but I would not drink Cocoa Wonderland or Market Porter at these temperatures.
Thanks CZ (the beer monster)
Cans are the better option, no oxygen, no light, put them in the fridge and no warmth. Taking cans when tubing down the river, or hiking up a mountain, is easier than bottles, and you don't have to keep a track of bottle tops. Also find cans easier to stash in the beer fridge that bottles, and of course by easier I mean I can get more in.
Happy medium, metal bottles (like the ones Bud Lite Platinum comes in)