Fairlie Basic

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  • Опубліковано 3 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 102

  • @ajaxengineco
    @ajaxengineco 3 роки тому +32

    Hughie Jones summed it up nicely in his song, 'The Fairlie Duplex Engine.'
    "When I saw it in the loco shed, I thought I'd lost me mind,"
    "Two front ends together and no tender on behind!"
    "The footplate's in the middle, and everything is double,"
    "A four-armed drivers needed, there's two fires and two shovels!"

    • @vectorbrony3473
      @vectorbrony3473 3 роки тому +13

      "We're going to Porthmaddock, we're going to see the trials"
      "Everyones on holiday, the people travel miles"
      "The railways got this loco, the quirest ever seen"
      "The fairlie duplex engine, what ever that may mean"
      A really great song

    • @thomasawl
      @thomasawl 3 роки тому +5

      I never knew this song existed. Thanks!

    • @AnthonyDawsonHistory
      @AnthonyDawsonHistory  3 роки тому +6

      you're not the only one!

    • @christopherlawley1842
      @christopherlawley1842 2 роки тому +2

      What a lovely song.

  • @robertbalazslorincz8218
    @robertbalazslorincz8218 2 роки тому +4

    "So that would be the Fairlie Locomotive. A machine that, has to be admitted, is a *Fairlie-good* design."

  • @ollieh98
    @ollieh98 3 роки тому +6

    The Ffestiniog Railway is a sight to behold, not only because of the Fairlie Locomotive, the secenery is breathtaking.

    • @IndustrialParrot2816
      @IndustrialParrot2816 3 роки тому

      they also have some garratts i think they have 3 of them

    • @cr10001
      @cr10001 3 роки тому

      @@IndustrialParrot2816 The NGG Garratts (ex South Africa) run on the adjacent Welsh Highland Railway, from Portmadoc north to Caernarfon, operated by the Ffestiniog. I doubt they'd fit the Ffestiniog itself. They also have the very first Garratt ever, a little one from Tasmania.
      The Fairlies run on the Ffestiniog, from Portmadoc up to Blaenau Ffestiniog. As Ollie Hunt said, the scenery is breathtaking, particularly between Penrhyndeudraeth and Ddualt.

    • @IndustrialParrot2816
      @IndustrialParrot2816 3 роки тому

      @@cr10001 oh right there are two railways it so confusing just call it one railway and do something

    • @cr10001
      @cr10001 3 роки тому

      @@IndustrialParrot2816 I was being informative. If you want to see a NGG Garratt you don't look on the Ffestiniog line, you look on the Welsh Highland (Carnarfon) line. I very much doubt a NGG would fit up the Ffestiniog.
      'Call it one railway'? History would disagree with you. I'm not sure how two separate lines are 'confusing'.

    • @IndustrialParrot2816
      @IndustrialParrot2816 3 роки тому

      @@cr10001 i know but its confusing which railway own which engines and also i thought they were the same line

  • @barryphillips7327
    @barryphillips7327 2 роки тому +2

    We have a ''Fairlie'' Josephine double ended locomotive in our museum which to rusted chassis will never run again pity our railway workshop ( which was the best in the country ) did not build a new one, they had the skills!!!!!!!!

  • @AMOGLES99
    @AMOGLES99 3 роки тому +12

    The concept was way ahead of its time, considering that the most common wheel arrangement for a locomotive today is to have eight wheels, arranged in two bogies, with all axles powered, and the locomotive being equally capable of running in both directions.

  • @1TruNub
    @1TruNub 3 роки тому +43

    " a Fairley good design" I see what you did there

  • @FQP-7024
    @FQP-7024 3 роки тому +3

    I have seen it coming a damn mile away and yet the "fairly good design" pun got me anyway, such great content

  • @RockyRailroadProductions_B0SS
    @RockyRailroadProductions_B0SS 3 роки тому +8

    I think it's interesting to see the very first Fairlie locomotive concepts, particularly with that early return-flue boilers - A bold effort but the insides look like such a mess!
    The ones used in Mexico are some of my favorites. It's a real testament to the design to still see such a strange patent type running service trains on the Ffestiniog Railway in this century.

  • @JonatanGronoset
    @JonatanGronoset 3 роки тому +5

    Splendid production.
    Sweden also had a Fairlie purchased by Clark & Co in 1871, which worked the Nässjö Orskarshamn Railway with the name Hultenheim. She suffered a boiler explosion in 1902 and was subsequently lost to posterity.

    • @jandoerlidoe3412
      @jandoerlidoe3412 3 роки тому

      That railway passes through our village... i live there...

  • @sirrliv
    @sirrliv 3 роки тому +7

    I've been looking forward to this episode for awhile and was certainly not disappointed. I wish there had been a bit more info on the Fairlie locos exported around the world; why they gained such extraordinary popularity in Central and South America, perhaps a sidebar on Fairlie loco "Josephine" and her role in helping the first express train across New Zealand (before the jealous driver of the American engine she was double heading with tried to pull her apart), maybe a mention of the difference between the British double Fairlies and the American Mason Bogies. But if we covered everything there is to be said about this wondrous machine, this video could easily be an hour long. And while I would gladly sit through that, I'm sure Mr. Dawson has better things to do, like continue tearing his hair out tracking down Stephenson locos exported to America.

    • @AnthonyDawsonHistory
      @AnthonyDawsonHistory  3 роки тому +3

      It just means we get to re-visit the Fairlie later one and look at, for example, Josephine :-)

  • @OlanKenny
    @OlanKenny 3 роки тому +6

    I live in Wales. So you could say this episode was Fairlie Local

  • @douglasfleetney5031
    @douglasfleetney5031 3 роки тому +5

    Makes you quietly wonder what would the Leader have become had the time and money been put into it for proper developement instead or the rush job that they were as surely the Leader was the ultimate expression of the Double Fairley.... Thank you for posting this Mr Dawson, I tend to forget that these are Victorian machines because they are so competent at what they do day in, day out. Another wonderful video. Thanks again.

    • @muir8009
      @muir8009 3 роки тому +2

      good comment, although I would tend to consider leader to be an ultimate expression of something like a kitson. or a shay. thing with leader it was really beating up a blind alley. intended for oil use, so no advantage over a diesel using imported fuels, complex and heavy that when running well was barely the equal of a generation old n class mogul. In 1948 the EE 6SRKT was coupled with a bo-bo and of course the LMS 10800 were suitable advancements in rail technology. At best Leader was the equivalent of Holdens decapod: proved a point but quickly sidelined for something more workable. love these videos by Mr Dawson, not only very informative, but so expressive: he could make the design of a whitworth bolt into a verbal adventure... :)

    • @AnthonyDawsonHistory
      @AnthonyDawsonHistory  3 роки тому +3

      Leader is more akin to a Garratt than a Shay or Kitson-Meyer as it has two, independent, fully articulated power bogeys, and only a single boiler. If Bulleid had fitted it with conventional valve gear rather than using sleeve valves - which had been shown to be failures on the Paget locomotive and with Bulleid's own experiment with an eldery Brighton 'Atlantic', having two cylinder power bogeys rather than three and the original oil firing it might have worked. The off-set boiler was a massive mistake. It's incredible to think it started out life as a tank engine for empty stock movements and then snowballed. But it did combine much of the thinking of Robert Fairlie: a double-ended machine with articulated power bogeys, which didn't have to be turned, had a low axle load and thus high route availability, had total adhesion and could run equally well in either direction. Fairlies' concept is pretty much the modern locomotive, albeit now diesel or electric powered. And for that he truly should be recognised as a pioneer.

    • @muir8009
      @muir8009 3 роки тому +2

      @@AnthonyDawsonHistory agreed. the kitson thing I was just accentuating the single boiler aspect, and it's techo word to throw in a conversation just to see if anyone's listening. it's a bit of a shame that there hadn't been someone to restrain bulleid, and as you rightfully pointed out with precedent of the Paget. yes, leader can be seen as being a variant of the ultimate double fairlie. still can't help but feel as almost at the same time EE were building double ended diesels left right and centre could leader have given anything more? makes Robert's Fairlie the masterpiece actually, leader should've just been a double fairlie, oil fired cab at each end. although in summer the proximity of a smokebox in the cab might be interesting. As an addendum the R & S 0-6-4T single fairlies were highly successful machines used on the Wellington to Masterton Railway (incl the fell Rimutaka Incline). withwere no turntables on the section in the early years the locos were never turned. the single fairlies had the advantage of less maintenance with one power unit, simpler boilers, still with deep ashpan/ fireboxes, ultimate flexibility, easier to crew and fire. having an unpowered bogie under the cab and coal bunker doesn't seem to have detracted from performance, apart from the H class fell locos, they were the largest and most powerful locos on the section.

    • @DiegoLiger
      @DiegoLiger 3 роки тому +2

      @@muir8009 Bulleid designed some excellent boilers. That of Leader was no exception. Yet at the same time he was building Leader he had also designed electric and diesel-electric locos for the Southern! To my mind it's a crying shame that Grouping came when it did in 1923 otherwise we'd have seen electric trains between York and Newcastle on the East Coast Mainline.One of the biggest missed opportunities in British railway history I always thought.
      The single fairlies have a lot going for them; powerful, flexible, don't need to be turned and simple to build and operate, and with a low axle loading. The Fairlie is a massive break from traditional, very conservative British locomotive development. They're OK for the colonies and abroad, but not at home please. (same with Garratts, too). Although Fairlie's initial boiler designs are questionable in terms of complexity, the design is incredibly modern and forward-looking for 1864, even if he may have borrowed it from John Cockerill.

  • @ilikeussr7264
    @ilikeussr7264 2 роки тому +2

    This is my favorite most best and amazing crazy designed steam locomotive

  • @hedgehog3180
    @hedgehog3180 3 роки тому +26

    Ironically the idea of a locomotive that could go equally well in both directions ended up becoming the norm about a century later. These days all locomotives in Europe have cabs at both ends.

    • @IndustrialParrot2816
      @IndustrialParrot2816 3 роки тому +1

      and the incredibly sucessful byer garratts could run backwards very well but the driver would have to turn his neck funny in order to see backwards

    • @retrogamelover2012
      @retrogamelover2012 2 роки тому +1

      @@IndustrialParrot2816 Either that, or have the fireman on lookout, when they're not shoveling more coal into the firebox.

    • @IndustrialParrot2816
      @IndustrialParrot2816 2 роки тому +2

      @@retrogamelover2012 the garratts were coal hogs and the fireman had to shovel coal the entire time the locomotive was running

    • @IndustrialParrot2816
      @IndustrialParrot2816 2 роки тому +1

      and the General eletric 45 tonner was pretty a fairlie with 2 diesel engines instide of boilers

  • @mikebrown3772
    @mikebrown3772 3 роки тому +4

    Love some of the illustrations you found which I have never seen before. I have never heard the D shape of Little Wonder's fireboxes mentioned before.
    One of the Queensland locos, much rebuilt, also ended up in Wales where it lasted until 1903 on the Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley Railway.

  • @MJC19
    @MJC19 3 роки тому +5

    Loved the pun at the end!

  • @jasonwhitler4167
    @jasonwhitler4167 3 роки тому +3

    Excellent video as always! Thanks for all the work you put into this series.

  • @johnd8892
    @johnd8892 3 роки тому +3

    Thanks for a good overview.
    A sensible idea of Fairlie to have all wheels driven and articulated without a fuel carrying tender. This being the arrangement used for nearly all currently running electric and diesel powered locomotives. That is sensible for non steam types.
    His steam version presents so many more difficulties that stopped them being used in significant numbers.
    Close to the least successful articulated steam locos apart from even odder ones like Hagan's Patent design.

    • @AnthonyDawsonHistory
      @AnthonyDawsonHistory  3 роки тому +3

      The Fairlie was succesful in its day: it was just over-taken technologically by the Garratt in the twentieth century. Fairlies were built in large numbers and worked well until they were outclassed by bigger, better, machines.

  • @samuel_excels
    @samuel_excels 3 роки тому +13

    I think I read somewhere that Fairlie ended up eloping with George England's daughter and marrying her without her father's permission which put their work relationship under a lot of strain.

    • @douglasfleetney5031
      @douglasfleetney5031 3 роки тому +9

      She was England's illegitimate Daughter and England forbade the girl to marry Fairly who had a bit of a reputation (pot and kettle spring to mind here). The marriage forced England to recognise the girl as his own and she seems to have reigned in Fairly's propensity for 'wandering'. Short term it did put some strain on the relationship between the two men.

  • @CZ350tuner
    @CZ350tuner 3 роки тому +3

    A video on the late Victorian period North Eastern Railway's early overhead electric locomotive experiments would be interesting.
    These have kind of become forgotten in the overwhelming fog of steam traction from that era.

    • @AnthonyDawsonHistory
      @AnthonyDawsonHistory  3 роки тому

      It's something I'm thinking about despite being waaaay out of my own area of expertise.

  • @jonathanratcliffe5714
    @jonathanratcliffe5714 3 роки тому +1

    This made my Friday morning, thanks Anthony

  • @benburch3250
    @benburch3250 3 роки тому +1

    Always wanted to see these. If I ever get to Wales I shall.

  • @krimskrams
    @krimskrams 3 роки тому +2

    Very cool! Great job covering this one! :)

  • @furripupau
    @furripupau 3 роки тому +6

    It's interesting that his original central stack design wouldn't have had the draft problem.

    • @AnthonyDawsonHistory
      @AnthonyDawsonHistory  3 роки тому +1

      but can you imagine how fierce the blast must have been to get the fire to draw....

  • @dylanhale7300
    @dylanhale7300 3 роки тому +2

    It really wasn't a terrible idea, it just needed some small improvements. Leading wheels or counterweights for the driving wheels, controls on either side of the cab or a cab forward design on either end of the Locomotive, and maybe a conversation to oil fire. Relatively small things.

  • @muir8009
    @muir8009 3 роки тому +9

    the pioneering 3'6" gauge B and E class double fairlies were never particularly conspicuous in New Zealand, tending to fairly rapidly bcoming work locos for the national railway builders.
    however the R and S class single fairlies were eminently successful machines, one of which survives on the West Coast, I believe the last original single fairlie left in the world.

    • @fuynnywhaka101
      @fuynnywhaka101 3 роки тому

      Also there's the Double Fiarly NZR E class Joesphine on display at the Dunedins Otago Settlers Museum

  • @Locomonarch
    @Locomonarch 3 роки тому +3

    Would be very keen to see more colonial engines.
    South Africa had some interesting and efficient pre 1900 engines.

  • @thisisaduck
    @thisisaduck 3 роки тому +4

    Hello there. This looks interesting. I didn’t know it was so old

    • @thisisaduck
      @thisisaduck 3 роки тому +2

      I was right. It is very interesting.

  • @thomasshaftoe461
    @thomasshaftoe461 3 роки тому +1

    This kind of inspired a few designs of modern diesel engines with this wheel style.

  • @the4tierbridge
    @the4tierbridge 3 роки тому +1

    Oh, these things look so cool. I’m now officially subscribing because of this video!

  • @BigJoeChrisLewis
    @BigJoeChrisLewis 3 роки тому +3

    With four tanks, the water capacity of the double Fairlie seems pretty impressive, but what about coal? There seems to be very little space for bunkers - or maybe this wasn't seen as a problem on the short Ffestiniog railway?
    Excellent series, by the way. My only issue is the shrieking whistle at the start of every episode - the Missus has been complaining and I now have to listen to it on headphones.

    • @cr10001
      @cr10001 3 роки тому +1

      Basically the Fairlie's job was to haul the empties up the hill (or these days the passengers). Going down the hill they would use very little steam. The Festiniog was built for 'gravity working' of loaded trains down to the port. But coal capacity would seem to be the most obvious limitation of the type.
      If one was planning a long--distance Fairlie, some of the capacity of the tanks could be sacrificed for coal storage, and a water tank car could be hauled behind the loco (as is done with a few preserved main line steam locos). And I guess it could be converted to oil firing and haul an oil tank as well (as has also been done).

    • @kimpatz2189
      @kimpatz2189 3 роки тому +1

      And thus the single Faerlie was born. Fuel problem made this decision.

    • @timmarsh4211
      @timmarsh4211 Рік тому +1

      Actually...... The two "tanks " the drivers side of the loco are for water, and those in the fireman's side are actually coal bunkers, certainly on all current FR Fairlies!

  • @figodwnnieto2581
    @figodwnnieto2581 Рік тому

    Correction the first Fairlie locomotive was The Progress built for the Neath and Brecon Railway in 1865. Mountaineer which you used the photo of also ran on the Neath and Brecon Railway for a short time, but proved unsuccessful like Progress.

  • @nickystar600video3
    @nickystar600video3 2 роки тому +3

    That's Mighty Mac from Thomas and friends.

  • @trainsteamplaygame2550
    @trainsteamplaygame2550 Рік тому

    In France, there were a same system locomotives during ww1 called Pechot-Bourbon for the french army.

  • @sachideshmane5088
    @sachideshmane5088 3 роки тому +1

    The single flue double pass boiler would eliminate the need for separate fireboxes. It's a shame none were built.

  • @porneliushubertsthaicuisin1316
    @porneliushubertsthaicuisin1316 3 роки тому +3

    Stupid question: Does anyone know why using two fireboxes as opposed to one is advantageous. I know he said that if one boggie wears out it will cool the fire with cold air from the chimney, but why not just keep both bogies working.

    • @AnthonyDawsonHistory
      @AnthonyDawsonHistory  3 роки тому +3

      Both bogies do work, but they are out of phase with each other, so as one bogie is on the power stroke, the other is exhausting.

  • @channelsixtysix066
    @channelsixtysix066 3 роки тому +2

    So in its final form, it was essentially two separate locomotives connected back to back with an arrangement of B'B'.

    • @AnthonyDawsonHistory
      @AnthonyDawsonHistory  3 роки тому +4

      Still one locomotive; two fireboxes and two sets of boiler tubes within a single boiler barrel, and carried on a single frame. There were semi-articulated locomotives, in Italy and Germany which were literally two tank locomotives coupled back to back and working together but those were still two separate locomotives whereas a Fairlie is a single locomotive with articulated power bogeys. :-)

    • @channelsixtysix066
      @channelsixtysix066 3 роки тому +2

      @@AnthonyDawsonHistory Thank you Anthony.

  • @Tom-Lahaye
    @Tom-Lahaye 3 роки тому +2

    Should be nice when Boston Lodge Works rebuilds Little Wonder.

  • @jandoerlidoe3412
    @jandoerlidoe3412 3 роки тому +3

    The Fairlie became a success after adopting John's Cockerill 's double firebox, in fact copying & patenting his design... Firing a Fairlie must have been a difficult task; where did they store the coal ??

    • @AnthonyDawsonHistory
      @AnthonyDawsonHistory  3 роки тому +3

      It is. with very little room to manoeuvre and two fires to tend to. There are coal bunkers on the fireman's side.

  • @FreeManFreeThought
    @FreeManFreeThought 3 роки тому +1

    My word, what glorious bastard of engineering do we have here :)

  • @seven8n235
    @seven8n235 3 роки тому +1

    Close but no cigar, left the best design to be invented by Herbert W Garratt. (My opinion)

  • @Figulus
    @Figulus 3 роки тому +2

    You missed a trick at 9:40 by not making the pun "It is little wonder that the eponymous tank engine [Little Wonder]..." or something along those lines.
    I wish I'd pointed this out after my first viewing of this video when it first came out, but doubtlessly the idea would have occurred to me at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if you too had this idea when writing the video's script, but felt it best not to fill the narration with too many puns; in my mind, at least, you can never have an excess of puns.

  • @roundhousetrainspotting
    @roundhousetrainspotting 3 роки тому +1

    What happened to 'Pioneer' in the end?

  • @peterball8241
    @peterball8241 3 роки тому +2

    You didn't mention the single Fairlie, is that a true Fairlie as it has non powered carrying wheels?

    • @AnthonyDawsonHistory
      @AnthonyDawsonHistory  3 роки тому +3

      This was just on the Double Fairlie. There was even a proposed Quadruple Fairlie - imagine that? FOUR power bogeys! Crazy. The single Fairlie as you say doesn't conform with Fairlies ideals but as it still has an articulated power bogey and fell under his patent technically is a Fairlie but yeah, when is a Fairlie not a Fairlie? Could become a bit cyclical that argument....

  • @kevfrombutterley
    @kevfrombutterley 3 роки тому +1

    10:10 😍

  • @MrStephenDando
    @MrStephenDando 3 роки тому +1

    The Double Fairlie I understand. Can someone explain to me the point of the single Fairlie?

    • @cr10001
      @cr10001 2 роки тому

      As compared with a conventional 0-4-4 tank? Probably, better 'tracking' on very tight curves, since the wheels at both ends swivel. Check out, for example, the 0-6-6 'Wm. Mason' (the Mason Bogies were a US development of the Single Fairlie) - you can see how that would be well adapted to tight curves. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason_Bogie_locomotive

  • @markdean6522
    @markdean6522 3 роки тому +1

    Only railway they were truly developed was the ffestiniog fantastic machines

  • @NickNickE
    @NickNickE Рік тому

    Love watching your videos Anthony and insantly watch the next one the moment it pops up! I just wish that you might consider crediting other authors or historians when you use their research. I've noticed you do it with photographs now and then in more recent videos but considering you have publications in your own name, I'm surprised about how lax you are when reciting dedicated research without credit to the people who have undertook it.

    • @AnthonyDawsonHistory
      @AnthonyDawsonHistory  Рік тому

      Thanks for your comment and feedback. I do all my own research for these videos, primarily from archive sources, or from what I have already read and inwardly digested for my various book projects. Where I do cite published papers, they are included, e.g. the Trevithick video or Hetton Lyon or Nelson.

  • @Mr.toasterandclay
    @Mr.toasterandclay 2 роки тому

    The mighty mac and cheese

  • @real_logangifty07
    @real_logangifty07 3 роки тому +1

    2:26 wow that's the weird steam locomotive, seen it's not useful

  • @mattthedoormat
    @mattthedoormat 3 роки тому +4

    This was an interesting video! But seeing this engines, it reminds me about how locomotives back in the day rarely ever had a covered cab, and it seemed to to take a while for covered cabs to become common place. Is there a reason for that?

    • @Poliss95
      @Poliss95 3 роки тому +1

      I was just going to say that they never thought much about crew comfort in the early, (and later), days of steam.

    • @Decrepit_Productions
      @Decrepit_Productions 3 роки тому +3

      I wonder if lack of protective 'cab' is due to designers simply not realizing the need? After all, other means of transport up to that time didn't protect the driver. Horse-drawn coaches/carriages and wagons rarely had driver protection. Horse riders didn't have it either. In other words, exposing drivers to the elements was a long-standing norm. Someone needed to think outside the bubble before conceiving of a cab's need/worth. Maybe?

    • @cr10001
      @cr10001 3 роки тому

      I think there was also a feeling that the driver could keep a better 'look-out' if his view was unobstructed by a cab.
      Compare with early motor buses of the 1920's (?) that had covered accommodation for the passengers and an open cab for the driver.