I saw this in another comment section but it’s too accurate to not mention here. Sam’s best memories are about being happy, while Deans best memories are about making other people happy.
@@chelseahorizons I can see where Dean was coming from. At the same time, Sam couldn't control which memories came up in Heaven. How do we know that Zechariah didn't purposely filter Sam's memories to be that way? I mean, he was powerful enough to make a fake version of Mary tell Dean lies about not loving him.
their mom directly targeting dean with the “people around you leave because they don’t want to be around you” was definitely like adding fuel to the fire because dean seeing that sam’s happiest moments were always when he had left him already put that thought in his mind. i feel so bad for dean.
When Dean threw away the amulet, Sam's gift to him, it broke my heart. This is not a happy episode but it's a good one. Heck it's a great one. An important one.
@@wlk68 I thought it was sad, Dean was hurt that Sam was happier without him. I felt Deans pain, I didn't think he was getting even with Sam I just thought that Dean felt the amulet wasn't given to him out of love just John hadn't shown up for Christmas. No happy memories of Dean showed no love at all from Sam. We know Sam does love Dean but Dean would only see his raising and loving Sam would have been reciprocated.
Sam was tempted to run away with Sully when he was 9. He nearly left with Amy at 14. He did run away at 16, and broke away for college at 18, effectively getting disowned in the process. Kids don’t try that hard to leave if they’re in a good situation. I always thought it was odd that the series never really went deeper into that besides “Sam and John don’t get along”
literally the first memory they show in heaven is of Dean with young Sam during 4th of July!! how are y'all saying that dean didnt have any of his best memories with Sam!?!?
i get why dean is upset. we see dean’s heaven is his family, especially sam seeing as that’s his happiest memory. but sam’s heaven is when he’s away from john, which is understandable but by leaving john he’s also leaving dean too. i can understand why dean would be upset he’s spent his whole life taking care of sam and putting his life on the back burner all for sam’s happiest moments to be away from him. this is how dean views it. he doesn’t understand that sam’s happiest moments are actually when he’s away from john. and we can see that young sam didn’t think of how him running away hurt his brother, he just wanted freedom. so dean’s feelings are very justifiable in this episode.
@@JustUs Heaven is the happiest memories. So in the two happiest memories for Sam. It was leaving / abandoning his entire family. Dean got beaten by his dad because Sam ran away. All of Deans memories included Sam or he was not yet born.
“That’s his son.” You get it! Like yes of course they’re brothers but the parent/child layered over their interactions as well, the fact Dean helped raise Sam honesty more than John ever did. You are absolutely correct and big brained to be saying something years before the show started properly addressing that aspect of their dynamic.
it's not like dean doesn't want sam to have his moments but he's just kinda shocked how getting away from dean is sam's heaven. dean have always wanted his family to be one, so the day that broke the family being sam's best moments hits him hard. also he's remembering the aftermath of it like the expression during "when dad came home" really gives away everything. ps: john winchester i hope you're in the deepest darkest corner of the hell.
Yeh like Davion, how would you feel if you n Cameron (spellings) were in this situation and you found out that ALL of Cameron's happiest memories are when he was away from you.....
But who can blame Sam. He never experienced the warmth of a real family like dean and john did. All he knew was this horrible crusade together with two dominant people that tried to suppress every bit of happiness within sam. Of course he wanted to get away and finally have some warmth in his life. So yeah dean was really selfish for trying to chain sam to this broken family.
I often understand Dean’s hurt, but he totally has a habit of letting his feelings cloud the fact that Sam’s an individual with his own perspective and experiences. Like, it’s no secret that Sam felt like the black sheep of that family; him wanting to go off on his own is more than fair.
That's the point. A normal and healthy quest for independence gets recontextualized into a gigantic steaming radioactive dump over everything Dean's kept himself alive and fighting for.
See the thing is Dean raised more than John ever did, and he literally did everything within his capabilities and even much more because he was a father, a mother, a brother and friend, a protector to Sam and Sam’s heaven is literally getting away from Dean’s love & support just because he didn’t have this perfect picture of what a family “should” “have” to loom like & feel like, he does NOT consider Dean as family never did and Dean has literally sacrificed everything for him and Sam would take stranger over the only person who actually cared about so Dean has every right to be mad and to feel hurt because despite everything Sam would still pick a stronger, a fake perfect picture of a “proper” family than his actual family aka Dean
@@nejoudtourki6000 Or so Heaven wants Dean to believe. The people controlling the boys' experiences here (including Castiel's) are not acting in good faith; they're attacking the foundations of the boys' resistance to the Great Plan. Dean's particularly. "Why fight for Sam? He never cared about you that much. Why fight for people's lives? Heaven's great! Why fight for God? He doesn't care." This episode is Heaven doing to Dean what they did to Sam with that fake voicemail back at the end of S4.
@@darastarscream so castiel is lying? Along with all the other angels? How would that serve him or the boys? Ash is in his happy place, a place he considers home because its where is family became a family in that bar so is ash also lying? All of dean’s memories where moments where he made his family happy, when he comforted them , it was NOT a place or perfect picture of how a proper family should be like or behave like all proper, his happy place, his home is his family members, it isn’t about getting his crust cut off, it’s about being there for Mary, sam and making them happy, that’s what family means to Dean loving his family no matter where they are or if it a special moment/holiday or if they’re hurt or “broken” they are he still loves them
@@nejoudtourki6000 Regardless of how the angels were manipulating the experiences, Sam’s memories don’t automatically equate to him not appreciating Dean or not considering him family. I feel like this narrative of Sam gets thrown around in the fandom a lot, but understand: as I said before, Sam is an individual. He’s allowed to view things differently than Dean does, even in the aspect of family. It may have been enough for his big brother, but Sam’s never wanted the hunter life-and that doesn’t make him the bad guy. Sam loves Dean unconditionally, and that can never be disputed. I’m sure there are plenty of happy memories he has of being with his brother. But Sam’s still allowed to envision a life different than Dean does. He’s allowed to want normalcy and independence and even a dog. I love my family, but if my biggest dreams are to spend my life traveling the world without them at my side, am I wrong for that?
I get Deans perspective. Dean had two memories, and the first one did include Sam. Sam had three or four memories and it included a random families thanksgiving dinner and when he ran away from his family. Dean was nowhere in sight. Take into account that Dean never really got over Sam wanting to leave him and the hunter life and choosing Ruby over him. Dean is feeling Sam is with him out of necessity and nothing else. We as viewers know that its not like that, but I can see Dean being very pissed off about this.
Exactly, not to mention Dean practically raised Sam as John was off hunting all the time and he clearly feels hurt that not one happy memory was from that time
Sam had 2 memories. The dinner and his getting away from JOHN not Dean like he literally said “I finally got away from dad”. And it’s only 2 memories there’s no way you think Sam only has 2 good memories - nathan
@@JustUs As a viewer we can understand that Nathan, but think of it from Dean's point of view. I'm not saying Dean is right or is being reasonable as feelings aren't always reasonable or rational, but I can understand from his prospective why he feels hurt. Dean got blamed for Sam leaving (at least one of those times) and Sam may have been running away from John, but as a result he also ran away from Dean too (that is how Dean sees it). Look at Dean across the whole series, he is 'family FIRST' and will do anything for them. He did so much for Sam growing up it had to hurt him to not see Sam's happy memories involve him. I know it was only 2 or 3 memories (Dinner, Trailer with his dog and night he left them for Stamford) but Dean's whole life is his family and it made him feel like Sam didn't feel the same way about him.
@@JustUs I definitely get he was happy to get away from John and the hunter life, but the reality is also that he left Dean as well. It may not have been his intention, but that is how it came out. The night he left Stamford he was never in touch with Dean until he came back to get him in the pilot episode. Near the end of season 1 Dean was expecting Sam to continue hunting with him after killing Azazel, but Sam made it clear he was getting back to doing his own thing as soon as that was over. The fantasy sequence Dean had where he and Sam were never hunters had their relationship pretty strained. Dean suppresses it, but he always felt that hunting was the only thing that brought the two of them together. This episode just kept bringing this back up. Sam also justified it terribly by saying he doesn't look at family the same way Dean does. There were a lot of other better things he could have said in that moment. They just have very poor communication with one another which is the cause of the tension between them.
The thing about Dean not letting Sam having his "good moments" wasn't because he was being selfish, it's because he saw it as Sam caring about him FAR less than he cared about Sam, because the very first memory we saw in Dean's heaven is him and Sam just having fun together, then the second is him spending time with his mother. In other words, being with his family is the single happiest experience Dean has ever had, and that's what he wants more than anything else. Think about it, you have someone you love unconditionally, to the point where most of the happiest moments of your life are just spending time with them and/or rest of your family, and you see that beyond a shadow of a doubt, that NONE of that person's happiest moments (as far as you can tell) include you at all. To Dean, it feels like he realized that the man he's devoted nearly three decades of his life caring for doesn't give a damn about him. So while being with family is what Dean knows makes him happy, he now sees Sam as someone who's happiest being as far away from him as possible, which is literally the exact opposite of what Dean feels. Now, as the audience, we know that's not the case, and that it's the fact that John isn't there that makes those Sam's happiest memories, but that's because we have the benefit of not being as involved in the relationships of the two of them, so Dean sees it as Sam hating his entire family and wanting nothing more than to get away from all of them. And this is the worst possible thing Dean could see right now because of how he now knows, or at least believes (no spoilers either way) that God, their last real hope of stopping the apocalypse, knows about everything that's going on and has no f*cks to give about it. And the thing is that Sam knows all this, which is why he doesn't argue against it, and doesn't try to justify beyond the explanations he attempted to give for why he felt the way he did, but he recognized that Dean was way too hurt by seeing his "slices of heaven" and believed the best thing he could really do here is give Dean the time he needs to deal with this. On top of all that, while we understand why Sam feels the way he does, he more than likely feels guilty over this too, because we know that Sam doesn't want to hurt Dean like this and it's killing him that, whether it was intentional nor not, it was Sam that made him feel this way.
@@caro12347 i guess, if you completely disregard everything the show has told us about how unhappy sam was as a kid. it's 100% normal to not want to be a child soldier in your father's cult.
"Now, as the audience, we know that's not the case" exactly, like dean's response here is totally in character--he doesn't know or understand sam's pov the way we do as the audience
I still think dean is a bit too selfish and self-absorbed here. Considering how sam didn't really experience any kind of meaningful happiness with his family when he was younger, it actually makes perfect sense for him to move away from his family. They tried to suppresse every bit of happiness sam had. Then dean comes along and wants sam to stay with them forever, not even wanting to give him a few years of break to live his own life and be happy for once. If it's was for dean, sam would have never experienced any warmth in his life, not like dean did.
@@Ulas_Aldag Like I said, you're thinking about this logically, as evidenced by your own words: "it actually makes sense". You're someone who isn't personally connected to this situation, so it's much easier for you to look at this objectively and pass judgemnt on someone who's probably at the lowest point he's ever been in his life. If you had someone who was literally your whole world, who was practically the only thing you had left in the world after losing pretty much everything else you cared about, and you saw (what you thought) was irrefutable evidence that given the chance, they would leave you and never look back if not for the AWFUL situation you both find yourselves in, how would you feel? The man is so hurt that he CAN'T see past it, because while logically, it does make sense TO US that Sam feels this way, but Dean is too hurt by the fact that Sam feels this way to see the reason for it or come to grips with the reasons why just yet. Think of it this way, if someone gets shot in a mugging, are they gonna sit there and think "wow this hurts, but I guess this guy must really be desperate for money" or is it gonna be something like "OH MY GOD! WTF, YOU SHOT ME!" Even if the shooter was someone that was robbing the guy in order to pay for something like an operation for his sick kid, the guy who got shot isn't gonna be capable of caring about the reason because he's in so much pain. It's obviously not a perfect analogy, I'm just trying to make the point that seeing this from Sam's point of view is next to impossible for Dean right now because of how much he's hurting.
dean is not selfish, he always done everything for sam, stopped living his life for his little brother so like when he finds out that the happiest memories of sam is when he's away from dean is heartbreaking
The fact that sam away at Stanford with Jessica wasn't one is his happiest memories calls into question this whole premise. We've clearly seen zachariah can influence these memories and potentially choose which ones they see.
Not gon hold you, after seeing all his happiest memories were being away from me after I gave up every possible **normal** chance of happiness for my family, that would get me to say yes to Michael. Bc that would mean everything I spent my life doing wasn’t even appreciated by the main person I’ve done it for.
10:54, I think Dean is just hurt that none of Sam’s favorite memories include him.. Deans first memory he was thrown into was him and Sam, enjoying fireworks together.. He cared so much for Sam and loved him so much, and it must hurt to see that Sam didn’t seem to reciprocate that..
You guys completely missed the point. Dean was mad because he was HURT- Sam's happiest moments were whenever he got away from John and Dean, while Dean's happiest memories are always with his family. The way he sees it, family is the most important thing, and he basically raised Sam by himself, giving up his own childhood to shield Sam as much as possible. So no, he wasn't selfish. While I can understand why Sam wanted to get away from their life and their dad, for Dean it's a betrayal of the most fundamental aspect of his life. It's not that there is a right/wrong here. Both their experiences are valid. But calling Dean selfish is not just wrong, it's a complete disregard of everything he's been through and the decisions he made in the past
Perfectly stated! Also, during Dean's memory with Mary, Sam was either not born yet or an infant, so not nearly old enough to have had his own experience during that time. Dean, on the other hand, remembers exactly where he was and how he felt while Sam was escaping the life. It's bad enough that John's parting message to Dean was always "Look out for Sammy", but to see that Sam was happiest away from his own family just compounds Dean's sense of "not good enough". And this is why Bobby is my favorite: Even when he was pissed off with Dean, he NEVER ONCE made him feel like he wasn't good enough.
It’s selfish in the aspect as of you don’t See Sam complaining that Dean got to have a mom while he didn’t. He let Dean have his time in his memory while Dean instantly scolds Sam in his. Maybe it’s just me but I think it’s easily seen as Sam being happiest when he’s away from the hunter life not without Dean. I’m sure that would of still been a memory with the dog if Dean was there and they weren’t worrying about hunting or John - nathan
@@JustUs technically Sam didn’t just let dean have his moment by the kindness of his heart. Dean had to beg Sam to have a few moments with his mom. Sam tried to usher dean along all because Sam couldn’t interact with her, meaning technically they were both selfish about the others memories. I understand Deans feelings of betrayal because Dean ideally sacrificed his whole childhood to care for sam and make him happy, all to realize that he failed because most of sams greatest hits don’t even acknowledge dean.
To be honest, it’s still contested on whether or not Sam’s memories weren’t manipulated by Zachariah. Heaven and Hell have been manipulating their lives and their ancestor’s lives to lead them to becoming Michael and Lucifer’s vessels to bring about the Apocalypse. Also Jensen and Jared rewatch the gag reels but don’t necessarily rewatch the episodes as they do a ton of SPN conventions and discuss all 15 years blissfully.
yeah i think this is the common held theory that these were manipulated memories; also sam said that he couldn't control what was in his heaven. they didn't have a say over what they saw and Dean seeing a moment when Mary and John were fighting wasn't necessarily happy either : p
@@JustUs in the very first episode, Dean told Sam that he did what Sam wanted and he didn't contact him for 2 years. Also, Zachariah was manipulating to crush Dean's spirit. Sam never denied these were his happiest memories memories, he actually justified them. What could be more effective to hurt Dean than to let him see that Sam didn't care for him like Dean cared for him.
I think this episode is the first time they explicitly state that God & John are written as parallels "just _another_ deadbeat dad. . .I'm used to it" But it certainly isn't the last!
I agree with a few other people here. Because we're so removed and can see both stories of the brothers we know they're both hurt. Dean got their mom, however briefly and to Sam I wonder if it makes him feel excluded. On the outside looking in. His relationship with his did was rough and he never knew the sweetness of Mary, or had her cooking, or listenednto her lullaby. But also Dean has a right to be hurt because where was he in Sam's heaven? No where to be seen. We know that it's actually the absence of John that Sam loved and well, John and Dean were together a majority of the time so...there ya go. But the brother's don't know that. The throwing away of the amulet was so painful the first time I watched the episode I had to pause, walk away, and continue it 36 hours later. I like the how the show reminds us of how bad things are. Like yes there's Lucifer and Michael but let's not forget the relationship between them two is fragile as glass too. They really remind you of the mess and gives you a desperate feeling of "Can they really pull through? Is "family being everything" ACTUALLY going to be the saving grace?" They showed us how potent and lethal their brotherly bond is and now they're breaking it and leaving us with nothing to grasp onto. Whew what an episode this one is.
absolutely, what this episode showed more than anything is that they have very different needs and perspectives and also an imperfect perception of each other's pov. i have a little more sympathy for sam in this episode because he clearly understands why dean is upset and basically begs dean for some understanding in return and gets shut down...but i sympathize with dean's reaction as well.
@@JustUs Oh no Sam has a memory bank of times with Dean I believe. And we've seen a number of them in the show. Especially the Christmas episode! We will also uh...see some things later on 👀 I think this is setting Dean up for what you guys are about to see though 👀 Imagine if the person you love the most has a heaven that is rooted in you not being there. Look what it does to Dean's feelings really. He's got Sam but Sam had everyone else? He reacts venomously but he's hurt. Who wouldn't be? I would say the writers were smart because this episode is a stepping block for what's coming next (even if it doesn't feel like it) Can't wait so see if you guys bring this episode back up later on down the line. 😏
Dean wasn't selfish, he was hurt. I would too. I feel so sorry for him for everything he has gone through and will go through. That's a complicated life. The sadness he showed just proves how much he loves his family, especially his brother.
Dean has raised Sam since he was 4 years old, he has dedicated his entire life to saving him, and then to find out that this person you loved most in the world doesnt see you as a part of his heaven, that his heaven has always been those moments where he ran away from Dean, that has got to hurt. he was not being selfish here, he was hurt. i'm not saying Sam was wrong, but Dean wasn't wrong either. They are both entitled to their feelings. i love you guys and sometimes i think you actually get the characters and their motivations and where they come from but sometimes you guys have takes like these which have no nuance whatsoever😭😭
@@gayatripd270 I got the point but saying Dean isn’t part of Sams heaven is just being a toxic dean stan. It was TWO memories. Idk how you can see only 2 memories and be like welp that’s all Sam has no more good memories
@@JustUs Of couse not-- this is Heaven making a point. "Why bother fighting Michael when everything you live for is a lie?" Of course it isn't a lie, but Dean's not in a place mentally/emotionally where he can fight this kind of manipulation.
What if the angels hand-picked from Sam's "memories" to fan the flames of Dean's abandonment and self-worth issues with the intention of driving a wedge between the bros, since they each depend on the other to keep going, to keep saying no to being meat suits? Sort of like they manipulated Dean's memory of his mom to make her say awful things to him.
Though this episode is sad it’s one of my favorites mainly because of dean’s first memory. Sam and Dean with the fireworks is my favorite brotherly moment it’s so sweet and always makes me smile.
Dean throwing out the Samulet is heartbreaking but they needed some sort of story to write it out. Jensen hated wearing it bc he was always forgetting to swap it for rubber prop for stunts and it was always hitting his face during fight scenes ☹
It wasn't Sam's best memories. He had no control over what memories were chosen for him. And we saw that young Sam in Dean's memory was very happy with Dean, and I'm sure that this would've been a "best memory" for Sam, too. Also, Zachariah was manipulating those memories, because he knew it would upset Dean. The angels want Dean to be lose faith in Sam, and say "yes" to Michael.
@@JohnWinchester3567 Sam said in the ep "I can't control this stuff". The actor who played Zachariah confirmed that his character was manipulating Sam's memories. J2 have also said this.
Love this episode. One of my fav scenes is with Dean and young Sam with the fire works in heaven. A happy moment in between all the trauma. I don't think either were wrong in this episode, Sam's happy moments were moments of trauma for Dean, Deans moments with his mum made Sam feel excluded. 2 individuals reacting to shit lives and destinies. One never had any experience of a 'normal' childhood, the other had it briefly, it was snatched away and he was made take on a 'parental' role way too young.
I still wonder whenever I see this episode whether Sam's "heaven" was manipulated by Zachariah and the angels. To create a rift between the brothers or break their bond. Whatever is the case, Dean throwing away the amulet is one of the heartbreaking moments ever.
I don't think so, because they made a big deal of Zachariah having to _look_ for Sam & Dean and not knowing what exact memory they were in If Zachariah could manipulate what memory they were in, he would have _known_ what memory they were in & just stepped in to nab them & torture them or whatever until they said yes
This has to be the most intense episode to date, but it was great seeing Ash and Pamela, again. However, I feel like a lot of things, especially Dean's perspective, went over you guy's heads. 1. Let me start by saying neither brother was wrong. Shocking, isn't it? Especially to the Sam fans calling people who are defending Dean clowns. Neither brother was wrong. Dean wasn't being selfish, and Sam had a right to want to be independent. However, Dean wasn't mad at Sam for being happy. His first memory was literally Sam being happy and that made Dean happy seeing his brother like that. He was hurt about what those memories contained, which were Sam leaving him and him either facing the consequences, possible physical abuse, or feeling lonely. Now, Sam's memories reflected family, happiness, and freedom and Dean wasn't a part of that. Does that mean that Sam has no memories with Dean that reflect family, happiness, and freedom? No. Dean's first memory showed all three of those things and I'm sure if it's a good memory for Dean, it would've been a good one for Sam, too. However, Dean felt like him and Sam were close and that their relationship was different than Sam's relationship with John. I'm sure he thought that Sam would come to him if anything was bothering him or if he wasn't happy, but instead he ran away, and Dean might have felt like Sam was seeing him the same way he sees John. Now, you can say that Sam was being a selfish kid, and that's not a bad thing. Kids are selfish. They make choices without thinking about the consequences or how it will affect others. And no, I'm not saying Sam was wrong in wanting a normal life and finding it outside of his family and the hunter lifestyle. I'm saying that Sam might have realized that he was selfish and that he could've handled things differently. But again, it's all about seeing both brother's perspectives. Sam might not have had his parents together like Dean did, briefly I might add, so it makes sense that family isn't as near and dear to his heart as it is for Dean. And that's ok. Same goes for Dean. Family is everything to him, so it makes sense why his memories were of Sam and Mary, noticed there were no John memories, but he has a right to be hurt when the one person who he sacrificed everything for and tried his best, when he himself was a child, to look after and raise doesn't feel much for him. And that's ok, too. 2. This was clearly a Zachariah trick (fantastic villain by the way). Although Sam and Dean's reactions to those memories were genuine, Zachariah purposely picked Dean's memories with his family and Sam's memories without his family to cause a rift between the brothers. And you know what? It worked. Dean threw away the necklace (sadness overload) because he felt like that necklace didn't represent what it used to: the love the brother's shared. And no Nathan and Davion, that doesn't make Dean a bitch for doing that. He's hurt and he's allowed to feel that way. To him, he feels like Sam doesn't love or care for him as much as he does for Sam. All they have is one another, so to find out that the other one doesn't share his feelings, or assuming the other doesn't, is devastating. 3. Dean calling God a deadbeat dad with a bunch of excuses, you can't tell me he wasn't comparing God and John. You can see Dean's disappointment and I'm sure he's also felt that same type of disappointment with John. It's the reason he started to become disillusioned with him. The empty promises, leaving him to look after Sam and fend for himself, John being his last hope just to have him not show up, etc. and now God, who he was starting to have faith in, has left him with the feelings that John has many of times. Heartbreaking. 4. Sidenote: 1. Dean wasn't the reason for Sam leaving all those times and for anybody to insinuate that, is ridiculous. Sam's unhappiness doesn't have to be a direct correlation to Dean was doing something wrong, especially when Dean was also a child. 2. If those memories were at the top of Sam's happy memories list, why didn't any involve Jessica a.k.a the love of his life? Just further proves that Zachariah was playing games. 3. Just because Dean had John and Mary in his life for those 4 years doesn't mean he had a significantly better childhood than Sam. As Dean's second memory showed, he still had to grow up fast and be the man of the house and comfort his mother. He also remembers his mother's death, so that's equally as bad as Sam never knowing their mother.
I don't think Dean is selfish, what he did was shitty. But you need to understand, the man is broken and burnt out. (Look at the episode with Famine, he was empty inside) The man has been on the road either raising his brother, hunting or both since he was what? Like 8yrs old? Sam has it bad too, but he got away and lived a normal life for a while. Dean hasn't lived in an actual house since his mother burned alive in 1983. The man is struggling to keep going and I think Sam understands, you could see at the end that he is worried about his brother
so dean throwing away the amulet was symbolism. sam gave the amulet( dubbed the samulet) to dean when they were kids its a symbol of their bond. when cas asked for it to find god dean was reluctant to give it to him cause it was something he held close to him, cause it was a gift from sam; after finding out that god isnt going to help. cas gives up the search, and gives it to dean, and after everything dean went thru in this episode, being told that everyone leaves him and basically doesnt love him by his mom, being show by sam's memories that he was happiest without dean around. dean has now fallen into that dark whole in the pit of his soul that famine was talking about a few episodes ago and has given up hope. hope in finding god, in the path sam and dean are choosing to fight to save the world and, as their bond as brothers. in this episode it displays how sam and dean view family. dean had a family life at one point but sam never did. that causing sam to view family different then dean causing this rift
I’m so glad you ended up understanding Deans perspective on why he was so upset and hurt when you talked out the memories more. Sams greatest memories were some of Deans worst memories and he basically raised Sam so it really hurt him.
deans greatest memorys were with sam or his mom, where sams was him by himself or with another family. dean was right in his anger with sam at that moment and was justified in throwing the necklace away after that. this episode showed that dean cared more for sam than sam cares for dean.
this episode breaks my heart looking at both sides, because sam didn't have a childhood and the memories he has with his family are tainted as what he wanted to run away from, so it couldn't possibly be something happy for him. bit also dean, always hanging onto what he and sam have as motive to live on and keep fighting, he mustve felt heartbroken facing the fact that sam felt the happiest away from him. that being said, angels are always manipulative and i dont 100% trust that what they went through is what their heaven really was. but dean throwing away the samulet hurts me every time 😭
To the eggnog memory: I doubt either would put that as a greatest hit only because Dean's death was weighing too heavily on both of them in that one. Jared and Jensen, however... DEFINITELY a greatest hit.
Dean's feelings are hurt. His father wasn't really there and supportive. Dean raised Sam then Sam left him for college and to live a normal life. Dean was not invited to be apart of Sam's life. Remember the pilot Sam doesn't even answer Dean's phone calls: Sam: Dean, what the hell are you doing here? Dean: I was looking for a beer. Sam: What the hell are you doing here? Dean: Okay, all right. We gotta talk. Sam: Uh, the phone? Dean: If I'd have called, would you have picked up? It hurt Dean to lose his only family and to find out leaving him is Sam's best memory that makes Dean sad.
This is a great episode, I'm so happy you finally managed to watch it! I had the same reaction as you guys when Dean thrown away the amulet. Ash is GOAT, Pamela is rocking, and all the themes are so deep here. Different types of heaven for everybody, God with his "not to meddle" mindset, team free will losing he last hope - damn, it's an emotional rollercoaster.
I think throwing the amulet was a very hurt Dean.To find out raising Sam wasn't even a happy memory. No parent wants to think your not loved. Sam angered me to no end on this episode can't blame how he feels but not one memory.
The Dean defenders in these comments 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 as you should. My guy is actually the most selfless character in this show (maybe besides cas) and I’m glad y’all are defending his honour.
You guys definitely misunderstood the whole thing. Dean never got to fully enjoy a childhood and practically raised Sam. So for him to see that none of Sam’s “greatest hits” memories didn’t involve him or their family really hurt him and put things into perspective. Because to Dean, Sam is everything. And he really sacrificed and did a lot for Sam, and tried to let him have his childhood despite John and despite the fact that they’re hunters. So imagine doing so much for someone only to discover that everything you did wasn’t even worthy of being a good memory to them. He’s not being selfish. In fact, he’s the farthest thing from it.
I love seeing yalls reaction to the turmoil these boys go through. Especially Dean as a fellow Dean fan, this scene did make me dislike him atm. But by the end of the show, I was still a Dean favorite, I think you will be too and personally Dean's best season is yet to come. But Sam has many great moments too that are yet to come, Dean and Sam are the heart and soul of this show.
One of Dean's (many) issues is a crippling fear of abandonment. Like fake!Mary said "Everybody leaves you, Dean" or the shifter in 1x06 "You left. Hell, I did everything Dad asked me to, and he ditched me, too" Of course Dean is going to feel abandoned/unwanted when Sam's heaven memories all exclude him. It's proving his fears And when Dean feels hurt, he gets angry/lashes out
Dang, Dean had a right to be mad. I do see why you would think he was selfish, but he went through a lot of crap when Sam would run away. So Dean’s life was very bad for many reasons as Sam.
The interesting thing is both Supernatural and Lucifer, both TV shows showcase heaven and hell as the same thing. Individual to each person, their own heaven or hell.
The fact that these two have been in Heaven several times before this, but this is just our first time seeing it opens our eyes up to a lot of things. Heaven is it's own individual thing for everybody. So Sam had to watch Dean get cared for by their mom, knowing that he'll never have that memory in Heaven, or at all. Damn, that's tough. This man Zachariah needs to leave. Let the Winchesters deal with this whole thing, "employee of the millennia". Ayy, we got the goat Ash back. Nice to see him living his life in the Roadhouse Heaven he's manifested. Nah, Zachariah is foul for calling Mary a milf like that. Now personally, I wouldn't let someone say that about my dead mom to my face, angel or not. Crazy how Joshua deliberately said to the boys that God just doesn't care about any of this, and Dean spitting back with the deadbeat dad remark. I mean, it would make sense why the big G-man hasn't interfered yet, if he really doesn't give a rat's ass about it all. I've never been more proud of Cas for calling God a son of a bitch. Not that I'm against him, but it's interesting to see how all this has made him lose his faith. Can't believe Dean threw the amulet away. I've never been more hurt. I can still remember y'all's reaction to the Christmas special. Shit was heartbreaking, but in the best way. I'd be down for some Harry Potter reactions. That shit is amazing. Great reaction guys, hyped for the next! 💯🔥
Great episode! I understand where both are coming from so I don't think one is more wrong/selfish than the other. Sidenote: since I watched Psych first, whenever Zachariah comes on, I just think of his goofy dumb yet smart character in Psych lol
this episode is just really heartbreaking. i really feel sorry for both of them because of what they've been gone though. unlike dean, sam didn't get to live a normal life with his mom and dad. he didn't have a normal childhood, not even a glimpse of it. so because of this and his strained relationship with his dad, he is really clinging to every little moment that he got the taste of a normal life. i'm not really mad at dean for not seeing that because i understand his perceptive too. after mary's death, he literally wasn't allowed to be a child anymore even though he was 4. he had to look after his father and raise his little brother. he was the connecting tissue between john and sam, and that's why he really cares about his family. for the biggest part of his life he tried to keep his family together. he is literally like a dad to sam. that's why he is hurt that the family concept doesn't mean the same thing to sam. and like nathan said, it's implied that john was abusive towards dean. the "when dad came home..." line with dean's facial expression is enough to understand that, it' really heartbreaking from both of their perspectives..:((
I'm honestly so happy Davion had Sam's back this episode. Don't get me wrong, I think Dean was allowed to feel what he felt, feeling like his brother hated life with him when Dean always tried to make the best of a bad situation for Sam (Aka Dean's memory with the fireworks) but as Sam said he never got the few years of good like Dean so he grew up straight into a life he hated, but a brother he loved. I mean we can see Sam in Dean's memory, how he was so happy and thankful for what Dean did and I'm sure if the boys had stayed in Heaven longer, Sam would've had a good memory with both of them but to him living a life away from being a hunter was his 'good life'. So I completely understand Sam and Dean in this episode but it really did break my heart, especially Dean throwing away the Samulet, kinda like a 'leaving God behind and being done with Sam' thing.
tbh that "maybe john was an abuser" doesnt truly fly with me cause in the episode with the "special kid" max, who had telekinesis who actually was abused by his stepdad? dad? they actually said they were fucking lucky, a bit less of hunting and bit more of drinking and that could have been them. so i dont know what the writers were implying, maybe this time he did hit him or something, or maybe not at all...maybe he only murdered some lamps like dean is known to do, but sometimes the writers just like to rewrite without thinking of statements these characters have made and its just like....why this character assassination, sirs and maams? like also "they didnt have a perfect marriage". so how did we go from the kids in love when Anna went back to kill them, and that cupid saying top priority match made in heaven to i guess 4 or so year old dean cleaning dad's messes? like, cmon. every relationship may have problems or ups and downs, not "wasnt perfect until she was dead". da fuck
I think it was more of an emotional and verbal abuse, because John is known to yell at them as children, and put ungodly pressure on both of them. I think most of it was unintentional, because of how broken and scared he was for not only himself, but his children. Mary died because his children were specifically chosen, enough to cause large amounts of physical as well as emotional stress.
@@cisco5753 yes. is just sme people do take it literal and the writers seem to make john a worst person and people literally imagine him beating them both up
Dean's memories are all about Family. Sam's memories are all away from the family. That is Dean's pain through this whole series, everything he does, is for family. He would do anything his family. There is one episode, seasons from now, that will break you, and you will think of this episode.
@@zomish13 oh I thought you meant 9x07 [mild SPOILERS] When I think of Dean giving up anything for his little brother, I either think of the cereal scene from s1, or him crying in his prom suit in 9x07 /=
I really feel for Castiel. :/ Angels are soldiers, they take orders and carry them out and put their faith in God. And then to know God hasn't really been there for years, knows what's going on and does nothing... 😔
Sam is all Dean had. Sam ran away and had fun with the dog and being by himself. Dean thought Sam was dead. He was panicked bec he couldn’t find his Sam. And who knows how bad it was when John came back. Dean’s only job was to watch Sam and he couldn’t. John was probably soooo pissed. Then when Sam left for college, I’m sure John was furious and took it out on Dean. Also when Sam left, Dean thought he was losing his Sam forever. So he was going to be completely alone bec John wouldn’t stop hunting. So everyone in Dean’s life that he cared about abandoned him. Mom, John and Sam. He has serious abandonment issues. Throwing away the “Samulet” was heartbreaking and I understand why Dean did it. The sentimental value was gone once Dean starts to think that there were no good memories with the two of them for Sam. That Sam’s best memories were being away from Dean. You can see it in Sam’s face at the end that he understands why Dean is so hurt and he wishes he could take it back or change it.
Young Sam is so cool. I don't think that was the moon, I think since they're in Heaven, that would've been Earth. It was great to Ash & Pamela again!! No, Pamela liked Dean. She told Sam "You can come too, Grumpy" & Dean said "You cannot come!" Zach is just fuckin' with the boys. Joshua was a cool, soft spoken but he emanated respect. Dean has lost hope. Poor Cass. Now Cameron is going to say it's garbage. No it's not. I knew it!!! LOL! Cameron!!!! Your comments are so important to further episodes. You have no idea!!!! OMG! You guys are smarter than you thing you are. Sam was going to give the necklace to John but John never showed up for Christmas so Sam give it to Dean. He told Dean he got it from Bobby & Bobby said it was "real special." I can't wait for upcoming episodes!!!! Don't stop watching Supernatural! You guys watching this is one of the few things I look forward to. I'm the old lady, Davion's favorite. LOL! Just kidding. He answered me once, twice! Love you conversations! Can't wait till the next one. 👵❤☮
Dean has always had the world put on this shoulders whether it’s from his dad, the angels or the millions of lives he has to save. His heart and soul is heavy with burden and when he sees other people not caring for something so important it damages his mental health and breaks him down. Dean is the most loving soul who feels it all, and Jensen does a great job at portraying that.
They had to have 2 amulets made, as during stunts and fight scenes the original amulet would move around & at least once chipped one of Jensen's teeth not something that's good (especially for an actor). However, the props dept & Jensen often forgot to use the stunt amulet, & there for it was written out.
Dean is selfish? Dean is selfish? I’m so disappointed in you guys calling him selfish, Dean was Sam’s father, mother, brother and best friend, yeah Sam didn’t have his mom to cut the crust of a sandwich but Dean DID IT FOR HIM, all of Sam’s happy places is literally getting away from the brother who sacrificed his childhood for his sake and raised and took care of him and Dean is “selfish” one here not Sam? Wow just wow
Dean wasn't selfish, he was hurt. He had to give up his childhood to take care of Sam, and then Sam walked away and didn't looked back. Sam was being selfish, not Dean.
Neither are selfish, they both had choices Dean decided to stick with his toxic dad and Sam decided to get away from a life he didn’t want, that’s not being selfish that’s putting himself first which is something Dean was never able to do and that’s on him not Sam.
Dean is not selfish. He always put others before him and reaped the consequences. He literally raised Sam by himself and didn't get anything in return. He shielded Sam from John and always put himself out on the line. John abused Dean. Dean's whole world revolved around Sam and when that got taken away he lost himself. Its extremely codependent but what can you do. Dean has been through too much.
They seriously trying to say deans selfish here? everything dean sacrificed for sam "you practically raised me" "hes always had my back even when I didnt have his" -sam all the flashbacks where dean takes care of sam, its canonically confirmed dean stole food and money to feed sam and gave up his food for sam "Have you ever gone days without food?" -police dude "Yes" -dean And tho its not confirmed if john was or wasnt physically abusive toward dean he was verbally abusive and neglegant the least even in flashbacks u can see john blaming dean who was like 9 years old for not watching out for sammy while john was out hunting. He couldnt care less in season 1 when dean was dying but then showed up not much later because othey told him they found a clue to the demon. Even in the finale dean was bleeding out in the backseat and john complained sam had wasted a bullet : " the demon comes before everything" - john Then when john sacrificed himself to save dean for once. He left him with the message that he needs to kill his own brother lmao what? Johns always treated dean like a soldier. It didnt even seem like he liked him, he just ordered him around its and its pretty clear for sam it was different, because sam was the little one, the independant one while dean was the caretaker who wanted to please him. Dean never got to develope his own person because he always had to take care of everyone else and i do believe that he fell into a mother role aswell. Specially when sam and john fight and how dean would go between. " after I was a mess from a hunt, you'd tell me its ok. I put too much on your shouler, made you grow up too fast, You've taken care of sam, youve taken care of me" -john Also lets not forgot Dean had the chance to get out aswell when he was 16 and at a boys home but decided to return to john because he didnt want to leave sam alone. "I just wanted you to be a kid for a little longer" - dean. Like you could write a book about all the things dean has given up for sam and nearing the end of the show u can tell slowly sams seeing it more and more aswell. But i do believe he kind of took deans love for granted at times .. it agitates me to see ppl call dean selfish. Clearly the dudes got abandonment issues but hes always put friends and family first before himself and hes always ready to sacrifice himself and stay loyal no matter how much he gets fucked over, once it comes down to it dean will always have ur back. Period
anyway funniest part of this episode is Ash casually revealing Sam and Dean are soulmates, the way everyone just sort of sat there awkwardly for like ten full seconds, and then it’s never brought up again bc the writers didn’t know what to do now that they established SamDean as canonical soulmates
THANK YOU!! I was waiting for this comment!!! Sam and Dean are canon soulmates and that's actually not shocking at all considering how much they love and can't live without each other. Like for real, their bond is the strongest shit I've ever seen and I was so happy we got this sweet confirmation of the devotion they both have for each other. DSOTM is definitely top 10 episodes!!
Ngl, I was more on Deans side in this. Its codependent to the point of toxicity af, (which is like the Winchesters' m.o) but thats kinda all he knows. All of Deans memories revolved around family, especially Sam, all of Sams memories revolved around himself and getting away from his family. I'm just trying to say they were both selfish, but for different reasons.
I agree that they are both selfish but in different ways and dor different reasons. I also think that it's OK to be selfish sometimes. Doing what you want to do with your life instead of what your family wants you to do can be considered selfish, but the bottom line is you have to take care of yourself and make yourself happy. No one else is going to do it for you.
I wonder how come someone call Dean selfish seeing all his greatest hits include his family including Sam, while Sam's ones exclude him completely, yup Sam hasn't got enough of his mom, but he always had Dean and yet his heaven didn't have any room for Dean ...and Dean was the selfish one here? quite the opposite man. If Cameron's heaven didn't have any place for you, how would you feel Davion?
I don’t think it’s necessarily Sams heaven is without Dean it’s more being away from the hunter life. Dean is married to the hunter life and can never leave it unlike Sam - nathan
@@JustUs May be, but that's for us, not for Dean to know, I mean all he was seeing that all of Sam's good ones were the ones without him, he doesn't even come close to some stranger's thanksgiving, he had a right to be hurt as a brother who loved his lil bro deep enough to go to hell for him.
i don’t know about that. There’s nothing we know that dean doesn’t know when it comes to Sam not wanting to be in the hunter life but knowing he has no choice. Also they only went to 2 memories. I think people would know that they only don’t have 2 good memories lol. I know for a fact they would relive that christmas episode in heaven
@@JustUs yeah two memories i get that...but it's a show which means it's time constraint, it can't go on showing each and everyone of em...just a few to set the tone.. to give us an idea of the whole picture...so....the point still kinda stands.
I really wish that Ash could have been a reoccurring character, I was so excited to see him back for this episode. there’s probably reasons, but still, he would have been great.
Well your guys reaction to that moment was weird. I would’ve thought seeing Dean upset that one of Sam’s happy memories is not only ditching their dad but ditching Dean as well and being happy not being with Dean you would of understood his feelings but you think he is selfish for that? So if a brother is upset that his other brother is happy when he ditches him and doesn’t want to spend time with him or be around him or be with him at all, that’s selfish? I don’t know that’s faulty thinking to me.
Sam is not happiest when he’s without Dean it’s when he’s not around the hunting life. I’m pretty sure if Dean ran away with him and they ate pizza all day everyday for 2 weeks and had a dog for entertainment it would of been just as good if they didn’t have to worry about hunting
@@JustUs well on some level Sam didn’t deny that getting away from Dean wasn’t a relief as well. Heck even Sam said it was great being on his own. So you can understand for Dean who was entrusted to protect Sam his whole life felt a little abandoned when his brother just ditched them leaving him alone with their dad.
@@JustUs *We* know that, but Dean 'All The Abandonment Issues' Winchester isn't going to see it as anything other than rejection. And that Sam didn't consider what John would do to Dean when he came back and found out Sam was missing . . .
THANK YOU!! I am so tired of this John was abusive agenda, when it was confirmed by the boys themselves he was not. He was a bad parent always leaving his kids alone, yes, but NOT abusive, wth. He left them alone to kill monsters and make the world safer for THEM! It's not like he was doing it to get away from his boys. He loved them with all his heart, trauma and paranoia just lead him towards the wrong path so he could never communicate his love for them the right and healthy way. John was always so misunderstood and I hate it so much, I don't love the guy because even when it wasn't his intention, he hurt the boys really bad, but I totally get him. Seriously all the Winchesters are hated and blamed for everything by a large portion of different parts of the fandom when in reality they were ALL nothing but VICTIMS.
I dont think Dean said that but Sam did. But like this episode its been implied that Dean was abused. And even if its not physically it was definitely emotionally
@@AndreaCanales25 He can be abusive and be a victime. You don't think that a person can be both? In fact, when you entrust a child with the task of protecting your brother from monsters and give him a gun, you are already abusing him. And judging by the way Dean behaved around his father, his childhood was destroyed,he was turn into a soldier from a VERY young age. His father didn't want it. He tried to be a good person and do his best. Didn't change shit to Din and Sam.
John never abused Dean, at least not physically. John being disappointed in Dean was what hurt him. I remember in season 1 flashback when Sam almost died as a child, John yelled at Dean and that was what Dean hated (because his hero was disappointed in him)
I have a hard time believing John never physically abused Dean, especially when he was drunk. Dean also strikes me as the type of brother to put himself in the line of fire if his dad were to raise a hand to Sam.
I saw this in another comment section but it’s too accurate to not mention here.
Sam’s best memories are about being happy, while Deans best memories are about making other people happy.
he's basically had to do that his whole life
@@chelseahorizons I can see where Dean was coming from. At the same time, Sam couldn't control which memories came up in Heaven. How do we know that Zechariah didn't purposely filter Sam's memories to be that way? I mean, he was powerful enough to make a fake version of Mary tell Dean lies about not loving him.
@@nina-raedelong158 How do we know that?? Why because Sam didn't refuse them as his happiest memories??.... That is the weakest defense ever!!
@@zackstoner4523it's confirmed by kripke that's what he did how else would Sam stop Lucifer if he wasn't happy with his brother
their mom directly targeting dean with the “people around you leave because they don’t want to be around you” was definitely like adding fuel to the fire because dean seeing that sam’s happiest moments were always when he had left him already put that thought in his mind. i feel so bad for dean.
When Dean threw away the amulet, Sam's gift to him, it broke my heart. This is not a happy episode but it's a good one. Heck it's a great one. An important one.
Same I was waiting for Sam to pick it up 😭
After the metal amulet chipped Jensens tooth and all the hits in the face he was happy to see it go.
@@traceykeevers7151 I'm aware. But they could've found another way for Jensen to stop wearing it. To have Dean throw away Sam's gift seems ... cold.
@@wlk68 I thought it was sad, Dean was hurt that Sam was happier without him. I felt Deans pain, I didn't think he was getting even with Sam I just thought that Dean felt the amulet wasn't given to him out of love just John hadn't shown up for Christmas. No happy memories of Dean showed no love at all from Sam. We know Sam does love Dean but Dean would only see his raising and loving Sam would have been reciprocated.
I always thought it was because he lost hope in God.
Sam was tempted to run away with Sully when he was 9. He nearly left with Amy at 14. He did run away at 16, and broke away for college at 18, effectively getting disowned in the process.
Kids don’t try that hard to leave if they’re in a good situation.
I always thought it was odd that the series never really went deeper into that besides “Sam and John don’t get along”
literally the first memory they show in heaven is of Dean with young Sam during 4th of July!! how are y'all saying that dean didnt have any of his best memories with Sam!?!?
i get why dean is upset. we see dean’s heaven is his family, especially sam seeing as that’s his happiest memory. but sam’s heaven is when he’s away from john, which is understandable but by leaving john he’s also leaving dean too. i can understand why dean would be upset he’s spent his whole life taking care of sam and putting his life on the back burner all for sam’s happiest moments to be away from him. this is how dean views it. he doesn’t understand that sam’s happiest moments are actually when he’s away from john. and we can see that young sam didn’t think of how him running away hurt his brother, he just wanted freedom. so dean’s feelings are very justifiable in this episode.
Deans first memory was of the two of them together, Dean is hurt because he is not part of any of Sams
and rightfully so.
I mean it was only 2 memories lol. There’s no way they think those are the only 2 memories they will relive
@@JustUs Heaven is the happiest memories. So in the two happiest memories for Sam. It was leaving / abandoning his entire family. Dean got beaten by his dad because Sam ran away. All of Deans memories included Sam or he was not yet born.
“That’s his son.” You get it! Like yes of course they’re brothers but the parent/child layered over their interactions as well, the fact Dean helped raise Sam honesty more than John ever did. You are absolutely correct and big brained to be saying something years before the show started properly addressing that aspect of their dynamic.
it's not like dean doesn't want sam to have his moments but he's just kinda shocked how getting away from dean is sam's heaven. dean have always wanted his family to be one, so the day that broke the family being sam's best moments hits him hard. also he's remembering the aftermath of it like the expression during "when dad came home" really gives away everything.
ps: john winchester i hope you're in the deepest darkest corner of the hell.
Yeh like Davion, how would you feel if you n Cameron (spellings) were in this situation and you found out that ALL of Cameron's happiest memories are when he was away from you.....
@@rydout yup i wonder too
@@rydout exactly!
Blaming John for Dean's perspective is a sop of John haters. Sad.
But who can blame Sam. He never experienced the warmth of a real family like dean and john did. All he knew was this horrible crusade together with two dominant people that tried to suppress every bit of happiness within sam. Of course he wanted to get away and finally have some warmth in his life. So yeah dean was really selfish for trying to chain sam to this broken family.
I often understand Dean’s hurt, but he totally has a habit of letting his feelings cloud the fact that Sam’s an individual with his own perspective and experiences. Like, it’s no secret that Sam felt like the black sheep of that family; him wanting to go off on his own is more than fair.
That's the point. A normal and healthy quest for independence gets recontextualized into a gigantic steaming radioactive dump over everything Dean's kept himself alive and fighting for.
See the thing is Dean raised more than John ever did, and he literally did everything within his capabilities and even much more because he was a father, a mother, a brother and friend, a protector to Sam and Sam’s heaven is literally getting away from Dean’s love & support just because he didn’t have this perfect picture of what a family “should” “have” to loom like & feel like, he does NOT consider Dean as family never did and Dean has literally sacrificed everything for him and Sam would take stranger over the only person who actually cared about so Dean has every right to be mad and to feel hurt because despite everything Sam would still pick a stronger, a fake perfect picture of a “proper” family than his actual family aka Dean
@@nejoudtourki6000 Or so Heaven wants Dean to believe. The people controlling the boys' experiences here (including Castiel's) are not acting in good faith; they're attacking the foundations of the boys' resistance to the Great Plan. Dean's particularly. "Why fight for Sam? He never cared about you that much. Why fight for people's lives? Heaven's great! Why fight for God? He doesn't care." This episode is Heaven doing to Dean what they did to Sam with that fake voicemail back at the end of S4.
@@darastarscream so castiel is lying? Along with all the other angels? How would that serve him or the boys? Ash is in his happy place, a place he considers home because its where is family became a family in that bar so is ash also lying? All of dean’s memories where moments where he made his family happy, when he comforted them , it was NOT a place or perfect picture of how a proper family should be like or behave like all proper, his happy place, his home is his family members, it isn’t about getting his crust cut off, it’s about being there for Mary, sam and making them happy, that’s what family means to Dean loving his family no matter where they are or if it a special moment/holiday or if they’re hurt or “broken” they are he still loves them
@@nejoudtourki6000 Regardless of how the angels were manipulating the experiences, Sam’s memories don’t automatically equate to him not appreciating Dean or not considering him family. I feel like this narrative of Sam gets thrown around in the fandom a lot, but understand: as I said before, Sam is an individual. He’s allowed to view things differently than Dean does, even in the aspect of family. It may have been enough for his big brother, but Sam’s never wanted the hunter life-and that doesn’t make him the bad guy. Sam loves Dean unconditionally, and that can never be disputed. I’m sure there are plenty of happy memories he has of being with his brother.
But Sam’s still allowed to envision a life different than Dean does. He’s allowed to want normalcy and independence and even a dog.
I love my family, but if my biggest dreams are to spend my life traveling the world without them at my side, am I wrong for that?
I get Deans perspective. Dean had two memories, and the first one did include Sam. Sam had three or four memories and it included a random families thanksgiving dinner and when he ran away from his family. Dean was nowhere in sight. Take into account that Dean never really got over Sam wanting to leave him and the hunter life and choosing Ruby over him. Dean is feeling Sam is with him out of necessity and nothing else. We as viewers know that its not like that, but I can see Dean being very pissed off about this.
Exactly, not to mention Dean practically raised Sam as John was off hunting all the time and he clearly feels hurt that not one happy memory was from that time
Sam had 2 memories. The dinner and his getting away from JOHN not Dean like he literally said “I finally got away from dad”. And it’s only 2 memories there’s no way you think Sam only has 2 good memories - nathan
@@JustUs As a viewer we can understand that Nathan, but think of it from Dean's point of view. I'm not saying Dean is right or is being reasonable as feelings aren't always reasonable or rational, but I can understand from his prospective why he feels hurt.
Dean got blamed for Sam leaving (at least one of those times) and Sam may have been running away from John, but as a result he also ran away from Dean too (that is how Dean sees it). Look at Dean across the whole series, he is 'family FIRST' and will do anything for them. He did so much for Sam growing up it had to hurt him to not see Sam's happy memories involve him. I know it was only 2 or 3 memories (Dinner, Trailer with his dog and night he left them for Stamford) but Dean's whole life is his family and it made him feel like Sam didn't feel the same way about him.
@@JustUs I definitely get he was happy to get away from John and the hunter life, but the reality is also that he left Dean as well. It may not have been his intention, but that is how it came out. The night he left Stamford he was never in touch with Dean until he came back to get him in the pilot episode. Near the end of season 1 Dean was expecting Sam to continue hunting with him after killing Azazel, but Sam made it clear he was getting back to doing his own thing as soon as that was over. The fantasy sequence Dean had where he and Sam were never hunters had their relationship pretty strained. Dean suppresses it, but he always felt that hunting was the only thing that brought the two of them together. This episode just kept bringing this back up. Sam also justified it terribly by saying he doesn't look at family the same way Dean does. There were a lot of other better things he could have said in that moment. They just have very poor communication with one another which is the cause of the tension between them.
The thing about Dean not letting Sam having his "good moments" wasn't because he was being selfish, it's because he saw it as Sam caring about him FAR less than he cared about Sam, because the very first memory we saw in Dean's heaven is him and Sam just having fun together, then the second is him spending time with his mother. In other words, being with his family is the single happiest experience Dean has ever had, and that's what he wants more than anything else. Think about it, you have someone you love unconditionally, to the point where most of the happiest moments of your life are just spending time with them and/or rest of your family, and you see that beyond a shadow of a doubt, that NONE of that person's happiest moments (as far as you can tell) include you at all. To Dean, it feels like he realized that the man he's devoted nearly three decades of his life caring for doesn't give a damn about him. So while being with family is what Dean knows makes him happy, he now sees Sam as someone who's happiest being as far away from him as possible, which is literally the exact opposite of what Dean feels. Now, as the audience, we know that's not the case, and that it's the fact that John isn't there that makes those Sam's happiest memories, but that's because we have the benefit of not being as involved in the relationships of the two of them, so Dean sees it as Sam hating his entire family and wanting nothing more than to get away from all of them. And this is the worst possible thing Dean could see right now because of how he now knows, or at least believes (no spoilers either way) that God, their last real hope of stopping the apocalypse, knows about everything that's going on and has no f*cks to give about it. And the thing is that Sam knows all this, which is why he doesn't argue against it, and doesn't try to justify beyond the explanations he attempted to give for why he felt the way he did, but he recognized that Dean was way too hurt by seeing his "slices of heaven" and believed the best thing he could really do here is give Dean the time he needs to deal with this. On top of all that, while we understand why Sam feels the way he does, he more than likely feels guilty over this too, because we know that Sam doesn't want to hurt Dean like this and it's killing him that, whether it was intentional nor not, it was Sam that made him feel this way.
fr i think it shows more of sam being ''selfish''
@@caro12347 i guess, if you completely disregard everything the show has told us about how unhappy sam was as a kid. it's 100% normal to not want to be a child soldier in your father's cult.
"Now, as the audience, we know that's not the case" exactly, like dean's response here is totally in character--he doesn't know or understand sam's pov the way we do as the audience
I still think dean is a bit too selfish and self-absorbed here. Considering how sam didn't really experience any kind of meaningful happiness with his family when he was younger, it actually makes perfect sense for him to move away from his family. They tried to suppresse every bit of happiness sam had. Then dean comes along and wants sam to stay with them forever, not even wanting to give him a few years of break to live his own life and be happy for once. If it's was for dean, sam would have never experienced any warmth in his life, not like dean did.
@@Ulas_Aldag Like I said, you're thinking about this logically, as evidenced by your own words: "it actually makes sense". You're someone who isn't personally connected to this situation, so it's much easier for you to look at this objectively and pass judgemnt on someone who's probably at the lowest point he's ever been in his life. If you had someone who was literally your whole world, who was practically the only thing you had left in the world after losing pretty much everything else you cared about, and you saw (what you thought) was irrefutable evidence that given the chance, they would leave you and never look back if not for the AWFUL situation you both find yourselves in, how would you feel? The man is so hurt that he CAN'T see past it, because while logically, it does make sense TO US that Sam feels this way, but Dean is too hurt by the fact that Sam feels this way to see the reason for it or come to grips with the reasons why just yet. Think of it this way, if someone gets shot in a mugging, are they gonna sit there and think "wow this hurts, but I guess this guy must really be desperate for money" or is it gonna be something like "OH MY GOD! WTF, YOU SHOT ME!" Even if the shooter was someone that was robbing the guy in order to pay for something like an operation for his sick kid, the guy who got shot isn't gonna be capable of caring about the reason because he's in so much pain. It's obviously not a perfect analogy, I'm just trying to make the point that seeing this from Sam's point of view is next to impossible for Dean right now because of how much he's hurting.
dean is not selfish, he always done everything for sam, stopped living his life for his little brother so like when he finds out that the happiest memories of sam is when he's away from dean is heartbreaking
The fact that sam away at Stanford with Jessica wasn't one is his happiest memories calls into question this whole premise. We've clearly seen zachariah can influence these memories and potentially choose which ones they see.
Not gon hold you, after seeing all his happiest memories were being away from me after I gave up every possible **normal** chance of happiness for my family, that would get me to say yes to Michael. Bc that would mean everything I spent my life doing wasn’t even appreciated by the main person I’ve done it for.
10:54, I think Dean is just hurt that none of Sam’s favorite memories include him.. Deans first memory he was thrown into was him and Sam, enjoying fireworks together.. He cared so much for Sam and loved him so much, and it must hurt to see that Sam didn’t seem to reciprocate that..
You guys completely missed the point. Dean was mad because he was HURT- Sam's happiest moments were whenever he got away from John and Dean, while Dean's happiest memories are always with his family. The way he sees it, family is the most important thing, and he basically raised Sam by himself, giving up his own childhood to shield Sam as much as possible. So no, he wasn't selfish. While I can understand why Sam wanted to get away from their life and their dad, for Dean it's a betrayal of the most fundamental aspect of his life. It's not that there is a right/wrong here. Both their experiences are valid. But calling Dean selfish is not just wrong, it's a complete disregard of everything he's been through and the decisions he made in the past
You are absolutely right!
Perfectly stated! Also, during Dean's memory with Mary, Sam was either not born yet or an infant, so not nearly old enough to have had his own experience during that time. Dean, on the other hand, remembers exactly where he was and how he felt while Sam was escaping the life. It's bad enough that John's parting message to Dean was always "Look out for Sammy", but to see that Sam was happiest away from his own family just compounds Dean's sense of "not good enough".
And this is why Bobby is my favorite: Even when he was pissed off with Dean, he NEVER ONCE made him feel like he wasn't good enough.
It’s selfish in the aspect as of you don’t See Sam complaining that Dean got to have a mom while he didn’t. He let Dean have his time in his memory while Dean instantly scolds Sam in his. Maybe it’s just me but I think it’s easily seen as Sam being happiest when he’s away from the hunter life not without Dean. I’m sure that would of still been a memory with the dog if Dean was there and they weren’t worrying about hunting or John - nathan
@@JustUs technically Sam didn’t just let dean have his moment by the kindness of his heart. Dean had to beg Sam to have a few moments with his mom. Sam tried to usher dean along all because Sam couldn’t interact with her, meaning technically they were both selfish about the others memories. I understand Deans feelings of betrayal because Dean ideally sacrificed his whole childhood to care for sam and make him happy, all to realize that he failed because most of sams greatest hits don’t even acknowledge dean.
@@skylersmith3466 They were in a time crunch to get to Joseph he didnt say a single thing about how its not fair dean got to have a mom but he didnt
To be honest, it’s still contested on whether or not Sam’s memories weren’t manipulated by Zachariah. Heaven and Hell have been manipulating their lives and their ancestor’s lives to lead them to becoming Michael and Lucifer’s vessels to bring about the Apocalypse. Also Jensen and Jared rewatch the gag reels but don’t necessarily rewatch the episodes as they do a ton of SPN conventions and discuss all 15 years blissfully.
I think it was manipulated for sure. Zachariah was trying to drive them a part.
No it's not Zach screwed with Dean's not Sam's.
In what way did he screw with deans over sams lol?
yeah i think this is the common held theory that these were manipulated memories; also sam said that he couldn't control what was in his heaven. they didn't have a say over what they saw and Dean seeing a moment when Mary and John were fighting wasn't necessarily happy either : p
@@JustUs in the very first episode, Dean told Sam that he did what Sam wanted and he didn't contact him for 2 years.
Also, Zachariah was manipulating to crush Dean's spirit. Sam never denied these were his happiest memories memories, he actually justified them. What could be more effective to hurt Dean than to let him see that Sam didn't care for him like Dean cared for him.
I think this episode is the first time they explicitly state that God & John are written as parallels "just _another_ deadbeat dad. . .I'm used to it"
But it certainly isn't the last!
I agree with a few other people here. Because we're so removed and can see both stories of the brothers we know they're both hurt.
Dean got their mom, however briefly and to Sam I wonder if it makes him feel excluded. On the outside looking in. His relationship with his did was rough and he never knew the sweetness of Mary, or had her cooking, or listenednto her lullaby.
But also Dean has a right to be hurt because where was he in Sam's heaven? No where to be seen. We know that it's actually the absence of John that Sam loved and well, John and Dean were together a majority of the time so...there ya go.
But the brother's don't know that. The throwing away of the amulet was so painful the first time I watched the episode I had to pause, walk away, and continue it 36 hours later.
I like the how the show reminds us of how bad things are. Like yes there's Lucifer and Michael but let's not forget the relationship between them two is fragile as glass too. They really remind you of the mess and gives you a desperate feeling of "Can they really pull through? Is "family being everything" ACTUALLY going to be the saving grace?"
They showed us how potent and lethal their brotherly bond is and now they're breaking it and leaving us with nothing to grasp onto.
Whew what an episode this one is.
absolutely, what this episode showed more than anything is that they have very different needs and perspectives and also an imperfect perception of each other's pov. i have a little more sympathy for sam in this episode because he clearly understands why dean is upset and basically begs dean for some understanding in return and gets shut down...but i sympathize with dean's reaction as well.
He literally only saw 2 memories. There’s no way you think Sam only has 2 good memories. He 100% has good memories he can relive with Dean
@@JustUs Oh no Sam has a memory bank of times with Dean I believe. And we've seen a number of them in the show. Especially the Christmas episode! We will also uh...see some things later on 👀
I think this is setting Dean up for what you guys are about to see though 👀 Imagine if the person you love the most has a heaven that is rooted in you not being there.
Look what it does to Dean's feelings really. He's got Sam but Sam had everyone else? He reacts venomously but he's hurt. Who wouldn't be?
I would say the writers were smart because this episode is a stepping block for what's coming next (even if it doesn't feel like it)
Can't wait so see if you guys bring this episode back up later on down the line. 😏
@@JustUs why r u so passive aggressive. jeez.
Dean wasn't selfish, he was hurt. I would too. I feel so sorry for him for everything he has gone through and will go through. That's a complicated life. The sadness he showed just proves how much he loves his family, especially his brother.
Dean has raised Sam since he was 4 years old, he has dedicated his entire life to saving him, and then to find out that this person you loved most in the world doesnt see you as a part of his heaven, that his heaven has always been those moments where he ran away from Dean, that has got to hurt. he was not being selfish here, he was hurt. i'm not saying Sam was wrong, but Dean wasn't wrong either. They are both entitled to their feelings. i love you guys and sometimes i think you actually get the characters and their motivations and where they come from but sometimes you guys have takes like these which have no nuance whatsoever😭😭
Exactly. This! I think Nathan was the only one who got the point!
@@gayatripd270 I got the point but saying Dean isn’t part of Sams heaven is just being a toxic dean stan. It was TWO memories. Idk how you can see only 2 memories and be like welp that’s all Sam has no more good memories
@@JustUs Of couse not-- this is Heaven making a point. "Why bother fighting Michael when everything you live for is a lie?" Of course it isn't a lie, but Dean's not in a place mentally/emotionally where he can fight this kind of manipulation.
What if the angels hand-picked from Sam's "memories" to fan the flames of Dean's abandonment and self-worth issues with the intention of driving a wedge between the bros, since they each depend on the other to keep going, to keep saying no to being meat suits? Sort of like they manipulated Dean's memory of his mom to make her say awful things to him.
i'm so excited for the show to go batshit honestly
Though this episode is sad it’s one of my favorites mainly because of dean’s first memory. Sam and Dean with the fireworks is my favorite brotherly moment it’s so sweet and always makes me smile.
Dean throwing out the Samulet is heartbreaking but they needed some sort of story to write it out. Jensen hated wearing it bc he was always forgetting to swap it for rubber prop for stunts and it was always hitting his face during fight scenes ☹
It wasn't Sam's best memories. He had no control over what memories were chosen for him. And we saw that young Sam in Dean's memory was very happy with Dean, and I'm sure that this would've been a "best memory" for Sam, too. Also, Zachariah was manipulating those memories, because he knew it would upset Dean. The angels want Dean to be lose faith in Sam, and say "yes" to Michael.
Sam had every choice in his heaven.
@@JohnWinchester3567 What are you basing that on?
@@JohnWinchester3567 Nope. J2 confirmed this during one of their convention panels. And they have a shared heaven. Also confirmed.
@@JohnWinchester3567 Sam said in the ep "I can't control this stuff". The actor who played Zachariah confirmed that his character was manipulating Sam's memories. J2 have also said this.
@@caseyanne967 agreed.
2 of my fave lines in this episode “when I come back I’m gonna be pissed” and “ I’m cool with it”
this episode was so fucking good. literally bawled my eyes out the whole time
Love this episode. One of my fav scenes is with Dean and young Sam with the fire works in heaven. A happy moment in between all the trauma. I don't think either were wrong in this episode, Sam's happy moments were moments of trauma for Dean, Deans moments with his mum made Sam feel excluded. 2 individuals reacting to shit lives and destinies. One never had any experience of a 'normal' childhood, the other had it briefly, it was snatched away and he was made take on a 'parental' role way too young.
I still wonder whenever I see this episode whether Sam's "heaven" was manipulated by Zachariah and the angels. To create a rift between the brothers or break their bond.
Whatever is the case, Dean throwing away the amulet is one of the heartbreaking moments ever.
It was definitely manipulated.
No it wasn't.
I don't think so, because they made a big deal of Zachariah having to _look_ for Sam & Dean and not knowing what exact memory they were in
If Zachariah could manipulate what memory they were in, he would have _known_ what memory they were in & just stepped in to nab them & torture them or whatever until they said yes
@@audreyii6750 Good point.
This has to be the most intense episode to date, but it was great seeing Ash and Pamela, again. However, I feel like a lot of things, especially Dean's perspective, went over you guy's heads.
1. Let me start by saying neither brother was wrong. Shocking, isn't it? Especially to the Sam fans calling people who are defending Dean clowns. Neither brother was wrong. Dean wasn't being selfish, and Sam had a right to want to be independent. However, Dean wasn't mad at Sam for being happy. His first memory was literally Sam being happy and that made Dean happy seeing his brother like that. He was hurt about what those memories contained, which were Sam leaving him and him either facing the consequences, possible physical abuse, or feeling lonely. Now, Sam's memories reflected family, happiness, and freedom and Dean wasn't a part of that. Does that mean that Sam has no memories with Dean that reflect family, happiness, and freedom? No. Dean's first memory showed all three of those things and I'm sure if it's a good memory for Dean, it would've been a good one for Sam, too. However, Dean felt like him and Sam were close and that their relationship was different than Sam's relationship with John. I'm sure he thought that Sam would come to him if anything was bothering him or if he wasn't happy, but instead he ran away, and Dean might have felt like Sam was seeing him the same way he sees John. Now, you can say that Sam was being a selfish kid, and that's not a bad thing. Kids are selfish. They make choices without thinking about the consequences or how it will affect others. And no, I'm not saying Sam was wrong in wanting a normal life and finding it outside of his family and the hunter lifestyle. I'm saying that Sam might have realized that he was selfish and that he could've handled things differently. But again, it's all about seeing both brother's perspectives. Sam might not have had his parents together like Dean did, briefly I might add, so it makes sense that family isn't as near and dear to his heart as it is for Dean. And that's ok. Same goes for Dean. Family is everything to him, so it makes sense why his memories were of Sam and Mary, noticed there were no John memories, but he has a right to be hurt when the one person who he sacrificed everything for and tried his best, when he himself was a child, to look after and raise doesn't feel much for him. And that's ok, too.
2. This was clearly a Zachariah trick (fantastic villain by the way). Although Sam and Dean's reactions to those memories were genuine, Zachariah purposely picked Dean's memories with his family and Sam's memories without his family to cause a rift between the brothers. And you know what? It worked. Dean threw away the necklace (sadness overload) because he felt like that necklace didn't represent what it used to: the love the brother's shared. And no Nathan and Davion, that doesn't make Dean a bitch for doing that. He's hurt and he's allowed to feel that way. To him, he feels like Sam doesn't love or care for him as much as he does for Sam. All they have is one another, so to find out that the other one doesn't share his feelings, or assuming the other doesn't, is devastating.
3. Dean calling God a deadbeat dad with a bunch of excuses, you can't tell me he wasn't comparing God and John. You can see Dean's disappointment and I'm sure he's also felt that same type of disappointment with John. It's the reason he started to become disillusioned with him. The empty promises, leaving him to look after Sam and fend for himself, John being his last hope just to have him not show up, etc. and now God, who he was starting to have faith in, has left him with the feelings that John has many of times. Heartbreaking.
4. Sidenote: 1. Dean wasn't the reason for Sam leaving all those times and for anybody to insinuate that, is ridiculous. Sam's unhappiness doesn't have to be a direct correlation to Dean was doing something wrong, especially when Dean was also a child. 2. If those memories were at the top of Sam's happy memories list, why didn't any involve Jessica a.k.a the love of his life? Just further proves that Zachariah was playing games. 3. Just because Dean had John and Mary in his life for those 4 years doesn't mean he had a significantly better childhood than Sam. As Dean's second memory showed, he still had to grow up fast and be the man of the house and comfort his mother. He also remembers his mother's death, so that's equally as bad as Sam never knowing their mother.
I don't think Dean is selfish, what he did was shitty. But you need to understand, the man is broken and burnt out. (Look at the episode with Famine, he was empty inside) The man has been on the road either raising his brother, hunting or both since he was what? Like 8yrs old? Sam has it bad too, but he got away and lived a normal life for a while. Dean hasn't lived in an actual house since his mother burned alive in 1983. The man is struggling to keep going and I think Sam understands, you could see at the end that he is worried about his brother
so dean throwing away the amulet was symbolism. sam gave the amulet( dubbed the samulet) to dean when they were kids its a symbol of their bond. when cas asked for it to find god dean was reluctant to give it to him cause it was something he held close to him, cause it was a gift from sam; after finding out that god isnt going to help. cas gives up the search, and gives it to dean, and after everything dean went thru in this episode, being told that everyone leaves him and basically doesnt love him by his mom, being show by sam's memories that he was happiest without dean around. dean has now fallen into that dark whole in the pit of his soul that famine was talking about a few episodes ago and has given up hope. hope in finding god, in the path sam and dean are choosing to fight to save the world and, as their bond as brothers.
in this episode it displays how sam and dean view family. dean had a family life at one point but sam never did. that causing sam to view family different then dean causing this rift
I’m so glad you ended up understanding Deans perspective on why he was so upset and hurt when you talked out the memories more. Sams greatest memories were some of Deans worst memories and he basically raised Sam so it really hurt him.
deans greatest memorys were with sam or his mom, where sams was him by himself or with another family. dean was right in his anger with sam at that moment and was justified in throwing the necklace away after that. this episode showed that dean cared more for sam than sam cares for dean.
this episode breaks my heart looking at both sides, because sam didn't have a childhood and the memories he has with his family are tainted as what he wanted to run away from, so it couldn't possibly be something happy for him. bit also dean, always hanging onto what he and sam have as motive to live on and keep fighting, he mustve felt heartbroken facing the fact that sam felt the happiest away from him. that being said, angels are always manipulative and i dont 100% trust that what they went through is what their heaven really was. but dean throwing away the samulet hurts me every time 😭
It's one of the best in the series, and also one of the hardest to watch. 😭
To the eggnog memory: I doubt either would put that as a greatest hit only because Dean's death was weighing too heavily on both of them in that one. Jared and Jensen, however... DEFINITELY a greatest hit.
Just wait till you see death the casting for him is amazing
The one thing I hate is that Dean never goes after the guys who shot them
True, but at least we know they live in terror once they find out Dean actually did come back.
Everyone laughing in the knowledge of what follows
has been a great morning so far, it's raining, I have my cup of coffee and now this video 💖🙌🏼✨
Dean's feelings are hurt. His father wasn't really there and supportive. Dean raised Sam then Sam left him for college and to live a normal life. Dean was not invited to be apart of Sam's life. Remember the pilot Sam doesn't even answer Dean's phone calls:
Sam: Dean, what the hell are you doing here?
Dean: I was looking for a beer.
Sam: What the hell are you doing here?
Dean: Okay, all right. We gotta talk.
Sam: Uh, the phone?
Dean: If I'd have called, would you have picked up?
It hurt Dean to lose his only family and to find out leaving him is Sam's best memory that makes Dean sad.
Wtf so many supernatural episodes lately!! 🥰 literally excited and can’t wait for more reaction videos!
This is a great episode, I'm so happy you finally managed to watch it! I had the same reaction as you guys when Dean thrown away the amulet.
Ash is GOAT, Pamela is rocking, and all the themes are so deep here. Different types of heaven for everybody, God with his "not to meddle" mindset, team free will losing he last hope - damn, it's an emotional rollercoaster.
I think throwing the amulet was a very hurt Dean.To find out raising Sam wasn't even a happy memory. No parent wants to think your not loved. Sam angered me to no end on this episode can't blame how he feels but not one memory.
The Dean defenders in these comments 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻 as you should. My guy is actually the most selfless character in this show (maybe besides cas) and I’m glad y’all are defending his honour.
You guys definitely misunderstood the whole thing. Dean never got to fully enjoy a childhood and practically raised Sam. So for him to see that none of Sam’s “greatest hits” memories didn’t involve him or their family really hurt him and put things into perspective. Because to Dean, Sam is everything. And he really sacrificed and did a lot for Sam, and tried to let him have his childhood despite John and despite the fact that they’re hunters. So imagine doing so much for someone only to discover that everything you did wasn’t even worthy of being a good memory to them. He’s not being selfish. In fact, he’s the farthest thing from it.
This is one of my favorites. ❤️
It’s the most magical wholesome thing you can watch 😂😅🥰👏🏽
I love seeing yalls reaction to the turmoil these boys go through. Especially Dean as a fellow Dean fan, this scene did make me dislike him atm. But by the end of the show, I was still a Dean favorite, I think you will be too and personally Dean's best season is yet to come. But Sam has many great moments too that are yet to come, Dean and Sam are the heart and soul of this show.
AHHH YAAAAAA! just about to have my coffee too. DEFS going to be a good day today! Thank you Justus!
These guys are my favorite best group reaction channel I always get excited for every supernatural episode.
Imagine having Dean Winchester hunting you because you fucken killed SAMMY! that's NO NO
The "wasnt perfect til mum died" meant that John rewrote history to iconify Mary after her death.
The fact that I almost missed Cam's head expanding because I was so focused on Dave and Nathan's conversation 💀
One of Dean's (many) issues is a crippling fear of abandonment. Like fake!Mary said "Everybody leaves you, Dean" or the shifter in 1x06 "You left. Hell, I did everything Dad asked me to, and he ditched me, too"
Of course Dean is going to feel abandoned/unwanted when Sam's heaven memories all exclude him. It's proving his fears
And when Dean feels hurt, he gets angry/lashes out
There is no such thing as a perfect marriage. The only way it becomes perfect is forgetting reality, like after the other one dies like John did.
Dean sacrificed so much to bring happiness to Sam's childhood only for Sam's happiest memories be away from him.
This episode is one of a kind and it's an AWESOME EPISODE!!!!! Oh and Jensen wanted it gone I think because it chipped his tooth!
Dang, Dean had a right to be mad. I do see why you would think he was selfish, but he went through a lot of crap when Sam would run away. So Dean’s life was very bad for many reasons as Sam.
The interesting thing is both Supernatural and Lucifer, both TV shows showcase heaven and hell as the same thing. Individual to each person, their own heaven or hell.
The fact that these two have been in Heaven several times before this, but this is just our first time seeing it opens our eyes up to a lot of things.
Heaven is it's own individual thing for everybody. So Sam had to watch Dean get cared for by their mom, knowing that he'll never have that memory in Heaven, or at all. Damn, that's tough.
This man Zachariah needs to leave. Let the Winchesters deal with this whole thing, "employee of the millennia".
Ayy, we got the goat Ash back. Nice to see him living his life in the Roadhouse Heaven he's manifested.
Nah, Zachariah is foul for calling Mary a milf like that. Now personally, I wouldn't let someone say that about my dead mom to my face, angel or not.
Crazy how Joshua deliberately said to the boys that God just doesn't care about any of this, and Dean spitting back with the deadbeat dad remark. I mean, it would make sense why the big G-man hasn't interfered yet, if he really doesn't give a rat's ass about it all.
I've never been more proud of Cas for calling God a son of a bitch. Not that I'm against him, but it's interesting to see how all this has made him lose his faith.
Can't believe Dean threw the amulet away. I've never been more hurt. I can still remember y'all's reaction to the Christmas special. Shit was heartbreaking, but in the best way.
I'd be down for some Harry Potter reactions. That shit is amazing.
Great reaction guys, hyped for the next! 💯🔥
Great episode! I understand where both are coming from so I don't think one is more wrong/selfish than the other. Sidenote: since I watched Psych first, whenever Zachariah comes on, I just think of his goofy dumb yet smart character in Psych lol
I LOVE Woody! The Hangover style episode was one of his best.
this episode is just really heartbreaking. i really feel sorry for both of them because of what they've been gone though. unlike dean, sam didn't get to live a normal life with his mom and dad. he didn't have a normal childhood, not even a glimpse of it. so because of this and his strained relationship with his dad, he is really clinging to every little moment that he got the taste of a normal life. i'm not really mad at dean for not seeing that because i understand his perceptive too. after mary's death, he literally wasn't allowed to be a child anymore even though he was 4. he had to look after his father and raise his little brother. he was the connecting tissue between john and sam, and that's why he really cares about his family. for the biggest part of his life he tried to keep his family together. he is literally like a dad to sam. that's why he is hurt that the family concept doesn't mean the same thing to sam. and like nathan said, it's implied that john was abusive towards dean. the "when dad came home..." line with dean's facial expression is enough to understand that, it' really heartbreaking from both of their perspectives..:((
I'm honestly so happy Davion had Sam's back this episode. Don't get me wrong, I think Dean was allowed to feel what he felt, feeling like his brother hated life with him when Dean always tried to make the best of a bad situation for Sam (Aka Dean's memory with the fireworks) but as Sam said he never got the few years of good like Dean so he grew up straight into a life he hated, but a brother he loved. I mean we can see Sam in Dean's memory, how he was so happy and thankful for what Dean did and I'm sure if the boys had stayed in Heaven longer, Sam would've had a good memory with both of them but to him living a life away from being a hunter was his 'good life'. So I completely understand Sam and Dean in this episode but it really did break my heart, especially Dean throwing away the Samulet, kinda like a 'leaving God behind and being done with Sam' thing.
tbh that "maybe john was an abuser" doesnt truly fly with me cause in the episode with the "special kid" max, who had telekinesis who actually was abused by his stepdad? dad? they actually said they were fucking lucky, a bit less of hunting and bit more of drinking and that could have been them.
so i dont know what the writers were implying, maybe this time he did hit him or something, or maybe not at all...maybe he only murdered some lamps like dean is known to do, but sometimes the writers just like to rewrite without thinking of statements these characters have made and its just like....why this character assassination, sirs and maams? like also "they didnt have a perfect marriage". so how did we go from the kids in love when Anna went back to kill them, and that cupid saying top priority match made in heaven to i guess 4 or so year old dean cleaning dad's messes? like, cmon. every relationship may have problems or ups and downs, not "wasnt perfect until she was dead". da fuck
tbf the writers go back and forth all the time when it comes to what john may or may have not done to the brothers
I think it was more of an emotional and verbal abuse, because John is known to yell at them as children, and put ungodly pressure on both of them. I think most of it was unintentional, because of how broken and scared he was for not only himself, but his children. Mary died because his children were specifically chosen, enough to cause large amounts of physical as well as emotional stress.
@@cisco5753 yes. is just sme people do take it literal and the writers seem to make john a worst person and people literally imagine him beating them both up
This episode is such a banger
Dean's memories are all about Family. Sam's memories are all away from the family. That is Dean's pain through this whole series, everything he does, is for family. He would do anything his family. There is one episode, seasons from now, that will break you, and you will think of this episode.
Damn Jensen and his superb acting! lol
What episode you’re talking about? I watched the whole show. Just curious
@@ladarakhlin1165 I'm thinking of season 12 eps 3. I have never cried so hard in an epsiode before.
Thanks!
@@zomish13 oh I thought you meant 9x07
[mild SPOILERS]
When I think of Dean giving up anything for his little brother, I either think of the cereal scene from s1, or him crying in his prom suit in 9x07 /=
I really feel for Castiel. :/ Angels are soldiers, they take orders and carry them out and put their faith in God. And then to know God hasn't really been there for years, knows what's going on and does nothing... 😔
This was about breaking Cas as much as it was about breaking Dean and Sam. 😭
Zachariah almost did it. Manipulating their Heaven to get them to say yes. The hero here is Ash. Soulmates everyone!
cant wait, till you guys finally meet god...
that will be epic
Sam is all Dean had. Sam ran away and had fun with the dog and being by himself. Dean thought Sam was dead. He was panicked bec he couldn’t find his Sam. And who knows how bad it was when John came back. Dean’s only job was to watch Sam and he couldn’t. John was probably soooo pissed. Then when Sam left for college, I’m sure John was furious and took it out on Dean. Also when Sam left, Dean thought he was losing his Sam forever. So he was going to be completely alone bec John wouldn’t stop hunting. So everyone in Dean’s life that he cared about abandoned him. Mom, John and Sam. He has serious abandonment issues. Throwing away the “Samulet” was heartbreaking and I understand why Dean did it. The sentimental value was gone once Dean starts to think that there were no good memories with the two of them for Sam. That Sam’s best memories were being away from Dean. You can see it in Sam’s face at the end that he understands why Dean is so hurt and he wishes he could take it back or change it.
No marriage is perfect but after there love one dies then they make it perfect in their mind. There going to be arguments in any marriage.
The thing is that wasn't just an argument. John literally walked out on them for a few days
Young Sam is so cool. I don't think that was the moon, I think since they're in Heaven, that would've been Earth. It was great to Ash & Pamela again!! No, Pamela liked Dean. She told Sam "You can come too, Grumpy" & Dean said "You cannot come!" Zach is just fuckin' with the boys. Joshua was a cool, soft spoken but he emanated respect. Dean has lost hope. Poor Cass. Now Cameron is going to say it's garbage. No it's not. I knew it!!! LOL! Cameron!!!! Your comments are so important to further episodes. You have no idea!!!! OMG! You guys are smarter than you thing you are. Sam was going to give the necklace to John but John never showed up for Christmas so Sam give it to Dean. He told Dean he got it from Bobby & Bobby said it was "real special." I can't wait for upcoming episodes!!!! Don't stop watching Supernatural! You guys watching this is one of the few things I look forward to. I'm the old lady, Davion's favorite. LOL! Just kidding. He answered me once, twice! Love you conversations! Can't wait till the next one. 👵❤☮
Pamela liked Dean, but invited Sam to a threeway. Dean told Sam he wasn't invited
Dean has always had the world put on this shoulders whether it’s from his dad, the angels or the millions of lives he has to save. His heart and soul is heavy with burden and when he sees other people not caring for something so important it damages his mental health and breaks him down. Dean is the most loving soul who feels it all, and Jensen does a great job at portraying that.
Jensen Ackles (The person who plays Dean) basically just thought it was time to get rid of the necklace or something along those lines.
They had to have 2 amulets made, as during stunts and fight scenes the original amulet would move around & at least once chipped one of Jensen's teeth not something that's good (especially for an actor). However, the props dept & Jensen often forgot to use the stunt amulet, & there for it was written out.
This episode was censored in México, I couldn't see it until many years later...
Getting closer and closer to episode 100
Dean is selfish? Dean is selfish? I’m so disappointed in you guys calling him selfish, Dean was Sam’s father, mother, brother and best friend, yeah Sam didn’t have his mom to cut the crust of a sandwich but Dean DID IT FOR HIM, all of Sam’s happy places is literally getting away from the brother who sacrificed his childhood for his sake and raised and took care of him and Dean is “selfish” one here not Sam? Wow just wow
Sams happiest places isn’t being away from Dean it’s being away from hunting and anything that involves that in general
The intro thooo we gotta love the intros
Dean wasn't selfish, he was hurt. He had to give up his childhood to take care of Sam, and then Sam walked away and didn't looked back. Sam was being selfish, not Dean.
Neither are selfish, they both had choices Dean decided to stick with his toxic dad and Sam decided to get away from a life he didn’t want, that’s not being selfish that’s putting himself first which is something Dean was never able to do and that’s on him not Sam.
@@elexisjackson7069 Dean didn't have a choice he was brain washed by John at an early age. So not as strong as Sam to leave his father.
@@elexisjackson7069 agreed.
Damn y'all load this up real early & at 18:22 that was great cuz I know what y'all talking about.
I literally cannot wait for the debate that will ensure with the series finale. 😂
Been waiting for this reaction
Davion: I've never disliked Dean more in my life
Me: 😬😬😬 honey, you got a big storm coming
Please You guys should react to shows like: Lucifer, Money Heist, Peaky Blinders and if you like Teen Wolf then watch The Originals.
Dean is not selfish. He always put others before him and reaped the consequences. He literally raised Sam by himself and didn't get anything in return. He shielded Sam from John and always put himself out on the line. John abused Dean. Dean's whole world revolved around Sam and when that got taken away he lost himself. Its extremely codependent but what can you do. Dean has been through too much.
They seriously trying to say deans selfish here? everything dean sacrificed for sam
"you practically raised me"
"hes always had my back even when I didnt have his"
-sam
all the flashbacks where dean takes care of sam, its canonically confirmed dean stole food and money to feed sam and gave up his food for sam
"Have you ever gone days without food?" -police dude
"Yes"
-dean
And tho its not confirmed if john was or wasnt physically abusive toward dean he was verbally abusive and neglegant the least even in flashbacks u can see john blaming dean who was like 9 years old for not watching out for sammy while john was out hunting. He couldnt care less in season 1 when dean was dying but then showed up not much later because othey told him they found a clue to the demon. Even in the finale dean was bleeding out in the backseat and john complained sam had wasted a bullet :
" the demon comes before everything"
- john
Then when john sacrificed himself to save dean for once. He left him with the message that he needs to kill his own brother lmao what? Johns always treated dean like a soldier. It didnt even seem like he liked him, he just ordered him around its and its pretty clear for sam it was different, because sam was the little one, the independant one while dean was the caretaker who wanted to please him.
Dean never got to develope his own person because he always had to take care of everyone else and i do believe that he fell into a mother role aswell. Specially when sam and john fight and how dean would go between.
" after I was a mess from a hunt, you'd tell me its ok. I put too much on your shouler, made you grow up too fast, You've taken care of sam, youve taken care of me"
-john
Also lets not forgot Dean had the chance to get out aswell when he was 16 and at a boys home but decided to return to john because he didnt want to leave sam alone.
"I just wanted you to be a kid for a little longer"
- dean.
Like you could write a book about all the things dean has given up for sam and nearing the end of the show u can tell slowly sams seeing it more and more aswell. But i do believe he kind of took deans love for granted at times .. it agitates me to see ppl call dean selfish. Clearly the dudes got abandonment issues but hes always put friends and family first before himself and hes always ready to sacrifice himself and stay loyal no matter how much he gets fucked over, once it comes down to it dean will always have ur back. Period
anyway funniest part of this episode is Ash casually revealing Sam and Dean are soulmates, the way everyone just sort of sat there awkwardly for like ten full seconds, and then it’s never brought up again bc the writers didn’t know what to do now that they established SamDean as canonical soulmates
THANK YOU!! I was waiting for this comment!!! Sam and Dean are canon soulmates and that's actually not shocking at all considering how much they love and can't live without each other. Like for real, their bond is the strongest shit I've ever seen and I was so happy we got this sweet confirmation of the devotion they both have for each other. DSOTM is definitely top 10 episodes!!
Davion not being a Dean apologist in this episode what is happening? Nope.
Ngl, I was more on Deans side in this. Its codependent to the point of toxicity af, (which is like the Winchesters' m.o) but thats kinda all he knows. All of Deans memories revolved around family, especially Sam, all of Sams memories revolved around himself and getting away from his family.
I'm just trying to say they were both selfish, but for different reasons.
I agree that they are both selfish but in different ways and dor different reasons. I also think that it's OK to be selfish sometimes. Doing what you want to do with your life instead of what your family wants you to do can be considered selfish, but the bottom line is you have to take care of yourself and make yourself happy. No one else is going to do it for you.
Purgatory? Getting ahead of yourselves.
I wonder how come someone call Dean selfish seeing all his greatest hits include his family including Sam, while Sam's ones exclude him completely, yup Sam hasn't got enough of his mom, but he always had Dean and yet his heaven didn't have any room for Dean ...and Dean was the selfish one here? quite the opposite man. If Cameron's heaven didn't have any place for you, how would you feel Davion?
I don’t think it’s necessarily Sams heaven is without Dean it’s more being away from the hunter life. Dean is married to the hunter life and can never leave it unlike Sam - nathan
@@JustUs May be, but that's for us, not for Dean to know, I mean all he was seeing that all of Sam's good ones were the ones without him, he doesn't even come close to some stranger's thanksgiving, he had a right to be hurt as a brother who loved his lil bro deep enough to go to hell for him.
i don’t know about that. There’s nothing we know that dean doesn’t know when it comes to Sam not wanting to be in the hunter life but knowing he has no choice. Also they only went to 2 memories. I think people would know that they only don’t have 2 good memories lol. I know for a fact they would relive that christmas episode in heaven
@@JustUs yeah two memories i get that...but it's a show which means it's time constraint, it can't go on showing each and everyone of em...just a few to set the tone.. to give us an idea of the whole picture...so....the point still kinda stands.
I really wish that Ash could have been a reoccurring character, I was so excited to see him back for this episode. there’s probably reasons, but still, he would have been great.
Well your guys reaction to that moment was weird. I would’ve thought seeing Dean upset that one of Sam’s happy memories is not only ditching their dad but ditching Dean as well and being happy not being with Dean you would of understood his feelings but you think he is selfish for that? So if a brother is upset that his other brother is happy when he ditches him and doesn’t want to spend time with him or be around him or be with him at all, that’s selfish? I don’t know that’s faulty thinking to me.
Sam is not happiest when he’s without Dean it’s when he’s not around the hunting life. I’m pretty sure if Dean ran away with him and they ate pizza all day everyday for 2 weeks and had a dog for entertainment it would of been just as good if they didn’t have to worry about hunting
@@JustUs well on some level Sam didn’t deny that getting away from Dean wasn’t a relief as well. Heck even Sam said it was great being on his own. So you can understand for Dean who was entrusted to protect Sam his whole life felt a little abandoned when his brother just ditched them leaving him alone with their dad.
@@JustUs *We* know that, but Dean 'All The Abandonment Issues' Winchester isn't going to see it as anything other than rejection. And that Sam didn't consider what John would do to Dean when he came back and found out Sam was missing . . .
@@JustUs agreed.
Both Sam and Dean explicitly stated in episode 14 of Season 1 that their father was never abusive.
THANK YOU!! I am so tired of this John was abusive agenda, when it was confirmed by the boys themselves he was not. He was a bad parent always leaving his kids alone, yes, but NOT abusive, wth. He left them alone to kill monsters and make the world safer for THEM! It's not like he was doing it to get away from his boys. He loved them with all his heart, trauma and paranoia just lead him towards the wrong path so he could never communicate his love for them the right and healthy way. John was always so misunderstood and I hate it so much, I don't love the guy because even when it wasn't his intention, he hurt the boys really bad, but I totally get him. Seriously all the Winchesters are hated and blamed for everything by a large portion of different parts of the fandom when in reality they were ALL nothing but VICTIMS.
I dont think Dean said that but Sam did. But like this episode its been implied that Dean was abused. And even if its not physically it was definitely emotionally
@@JustUs exactly, Sam said that & Dean stayed conspicuously silent for like 4 whole seconds, then got in the car
@@AndreaCanales25 He can be abusive and be a victime. You don't think that a person can be both? In fact, when you entrust a child with the task of protecting your brother from monsters and give him a gun, you are already abusing him. And judging by the way Dean behaved around his father, his childhood was destroyed,he was turn into a soldier from a VERY young age. His father didn't want it. He tried to be a good person and do his best. Didn't change shit to Din and Sam.
John never abused Dean, at least not physically. John being disappointed in Dean was what hurt him. I remember in season 1 flashback when Sam almost died as a child, John yelled at Dean and that was what Dean hated (because his hero was disappointed in him)
I have a hard time believing John never physically abused Dean, especially when he was drunk. Dean also strikes me as the type of brother to put himself in the line of fire if his dad were to raise a hand to Sam.
One of Dean's best memories was with Sam. That was the first one they showed.
Love your channel, and would love to see u reacting to 'Anne with an E' !!!♡
The best episodes are the ones that make you angry