No, there are not 2 mothers. If you want to see Mary as the mother, okay. But the Holy Spirit is not a mother. The Holy Spirit puts faith in the hearts of people who are open to letting God into their hearts. Jesus could be seen as a son, but is actually a way that God has chosen to manifest himself in flesh and blood on earth. So actually the Holy Trinity is a way that God has chosen to communicate with man. If there were a God, I do not find this at all incoherent or strange.
A great many Christian scholars - including Aquinas - agree that the Trinity cannot be known nor demonstrated by reason alone and is a mystery that one must accept on faith. So judging by reason and logic alone, it's fair to say the concept of the Trinity is incoherent. On this point, I agree with MH. (That doesn't mean Islam is true of course.)
I have a Christian friend (who once appeared on the channel actually) and he conceded to me after this video came out that the Islamic concept of God is more coherent than the Trinity, and I made the same point to him: it doesn't mean Islam is true of course.
@SecularSpirit Even then it is not like Islam has its problems with Tawheed what about allahs two right hands and his foot, leg and shin these are debates that led to wars in the early muslim world
@@SecularSpirit Too many Muslims (& Christians to be fair) seem to fall into the fallacy of presenting a situation as having only two answers. ie. Christianity is wrong, therefore Islam is right.
@@halfwaydead3087 The belief in the uncreated eternality of the Qur'an is also problematic for tawheed. Even Allah's attributes were a source of dispute amongst Muslim scholars in the middle ages ie some argued God’s attributes such as speech and actions were created because attributes such as speech and action belong to bodies (ajsaam) and are therefore created and cannot be eternal.
@@HassanRadwan133 so I suppose there are still things that are still worthy of debate in the muslim world that could rival the trinity Mr Radwan?(and also it's a pleasure speaking to you!)
I'm glad to see the two of you being active again. I've noticed a drop in activity in both of your channels as of late and was wondering why, so it's a special treat to get a joint live.
For sure, always good to do stuff together. We were away for a while travelling, not sure if you saw it but you can catch my recap of our trip to Norway here: ua-cam.com/video/QyDBiH6-frw/v-deo.html
Secular Spirit, at 3:30 you’re overlooking one possibility-that CHRISTIANS didn’t come up with the Trinity idea, but that it’s Who GOD is and revealed Himself to be!
MH says two subjects responsable for the same thing is impossible but Mohammed ,Jibreel and Allah are all responsable for producing the Quran ,or not ?
@@SecularSpirit Yes , but Mohammed had free will and he chose to transmit the message that he recieved and therefor he carries responsability , if he did not have this choice than he was a robot controlled by Allah.
@@ultrasignificantfootnote3378 Sure, but that still doesn't mean he was responsible for creating it. Same goes for if someone was sharing a story someone told them, it's still not their story.
@@SecularSpirit In my view ,the one who produces a message is not necessarily also the creator/designer and originator of it , to produce can simply mean to bring forth. Allah is the originator ( if he is real ) and Mohammed was the (re)producer of his auditory hallucination of Allah.
The moment when dr Craig casually ignores summarizing the debate and just adertises his website was so funny, but then Hijab first called him on that but just did the same made me laugh so hard, that was pure comedy gold.
As a Christian i did enjoy your livestream. Alot calmer than......and you can actually think about things. Alladin asked a Question. Why must their be three. I think Anthony Rogers may be a good person to answer this but i may be able to help a little. 1. God is known as Love and also eternal and spending eternity alone before creation would leave God without anyone to love and we know that love is not just a word it's an act. It says the father loves the Son and all things were created through him and for him. 2. All 3 persons has a role the father being the God head resides in heaven and is the authority. The Son being the first born and heir to the throne( Just as a Human Prince is not Less Royal than his father but a King in the making. God is Eternal yet through the sacrifice all things were given to Jesus by the Father) and the Holy Spirit which Christian believes dwells within them is omnipresent as you expect a Spirit to be and also allows God to be with man and dwell inside of man. 3. We don't expect the most incredible being to be nothing less than complex we don't expect a single cell organism.In hebrew it Says the Lord is Echad which means Unity. You would expect and all powerful being to be extremely complex yet in monotheism this complexity is one whearas the Pagans divide it and have a different God for everything to the point Hindus are in the millions. Strangely tawheed also means unification.
So the problem is that the Christian God think Blasphemy is the worst sin. And we both know that Blasphemy is so much easier in Christianity. It's extremely hard NOT to blaspheme. ..If God would be such a complex being he wouldn't have the Blaspheme rule.
@@arafatmarius331 i think you might be confusing with blaspheming holy spirit, then yeah but most people would not purposely do it they most mostly like do it by accident
@arafatmarius331 so the blasphemy law was for the children of Israel in the Old Testament. Jesus was Blasphemed, spat on beaten up brutally and mocked. Yet he said Father Forgive them for they know not what to do. That is why no Christian country has a Blasphemy law. Do you have any questions about my explanation on why must there be 3?
Regarding the Trinity, it's because God is an absolutely simple being of pure act that he has real relations with the same essence. For example, in the act of perfectly knowing himself, God is simultaneously the knower (the father), the object being known (the son), and the act of knowing (holy spirit) that unites both. This fits with Jesus as the Word or Logos, the perfect intellectual expression that proceeds from the father. To love, God is simultaneously the lover, the object of love, and the act of love.
I find Mohammad Hijab obnoxious with his aggressive speaking. There are lots of irrational things which are taken on faith in every religion, including Islam. Many of the 100 names/attributes of Allah are polar opposites.
@58:30 What if Bulma & Chichi fusion danced then Vegeta & Goku fusion danced. After that Gogeta and Chima had sex and got pregnant. Would that answer his question after they defused?
The fact that u use anime for arguments must dismental your argument...But let's ignore that and say where your argument falls You forgot the partialism.
His grating style aside, he did make a few good points and a few irrelevant ones where I suspect he misunderstood Craig. The thing is, the problems with the Trinity are very clear: you need faith to make it work.
Secular spirit do you deny that there is no such thing as multiple causes creating a single effect? I do take you and Alladin's point of why there are such redundancies but does this really have anything to do with whether Craig's arguments are logically coherent or incoherent? Isn't this debate about defending the logical worldview of the doctrine of the trinity not to prove it? You can correct me if I am wrong.
Don't deny that at all, but the point Craig was making is that multiple causes are actually one thing working in concert together, which I'd say is logically incoherent and that's the subject of the debate. I'd add that this is subject is about proving it is logically coherent.
@@SecularSpirit but in regards to Muhammad's charge of partialism, it seems that Craig's argument is sufficient, if you can have multiple causes creating a single effect the three persons creating the world together do not diminish what the three persons have done at all nor does it lead to partialism. Can you clarify what you mean? Where was the logical contradiction from what Craig has said? You don't like his argument in regards to each person in the trinity being perfect nor do you like the fact that the members in the trinity can create the world together without diminishing what each member has done through causal determination, but where is the logical contradiction or the incoherence?
There are no two mothers. If you want to see Mary as a mother, fine. But the Holy Spirit is not a mother. The Holy Spirit guides, inspires and encourages the hearts of those who are open to letting God into their hearts. Jesus could be seen as a son, but is a way that God has chosen to manifest himself in flesh and blood on earth. So the Holy Trinity is a way that God has chosen to communicate with man. I don’t find this at all inconsistent or strange. Three is one, anything Hijab comes up with just shows that he can’t even understand something so simple. It’s not 3 that is responsible for one thing, it’s one God who chooses to communicate in a certain way.
Hijab failed to demonstrate incoherence, but instead emphasized disagreement among Christians, which was not relevant to the topic of the debate. Rhetorically it can appear strong to accuse WLC of "rejecting the majority of Christianity", but the logical coherence of the Trinity does not stand or fall with popularity. An incorrect understanding may well be incoherent, but again this does not demonstrate that the Trinity itself is incoherent, even if it is a popular misunderstanding, because the incoherence is introduced by a mistaken definition. WLC demonstrated that there are plausible answers to all of the questions that Hijab raised, and whether Hijab is personally convinced of those does not affect whether the Trinity is logically coherent. Far from WLC needing to prove that the answers he gave to Hijab are necessarily true as a condition for demonstrating coherence, it was Hijab's job to demonstrate why his answers are necessarily impossible, which Hijab failed to do. As such the plausibility of WLC's answers stands and is enough to demonstrate that the Trinity is in fact logically coherent.
Cerberus, candles, how to light them properly and how not to, who can pump 100 kg by himself and who can't - these guys covered it all. 🤣 If Allah is one and has no partners and the greatest sin is to associate anyone with Allah but ONLY Muhammad can tell you what that Allah wants, he got you under his full control. That is why this became such an important issue back then (Muhammad needed it, it's NOT the greatest sin to think that God has a son or three daughters or whatever, there are greater ones), plus now Christianity is the main problem for Islam so they think this is one good way to undermine it. In my view it's not that hard to understand or accept the Trinity but I have no issue with Unitarians (or agnostics and atheists for that matter). In the article “If there is a God, then anything is permitted”: On Dostoevsky, freedom, and religious violence (in the last part, The heavy burden of freedom), Zizek points out why this is important and the difference between Jews and Muslims, and Christians.
I find it funny how hijab picked someone who doesn't represent mainstream trinitarian theology and proceeded to argue he didn't...(also WLC also supports heresy ie. monothelitism)
Problem is that the Koran implicitly buys into the trinity doctrine where it believes that Christ had a virgin birth, performed amazing miracles like making live birds out of clay, of being rescued from the cross and taken to heaven and indeed being the Word - which is obviously a reference to the gospel of John where Christ is referred to as the Word existing from eternity with God -one of the main New Testament sources for the trinity idea. Islam would have made sense if it treated Jesus like any other prophet and not a highly special one!
But miracles don’t equal Godhood. Adam had no father or mother. Moses split the sea. Noah built the ark. That doesn’t equal divinity. All those miracles are in the Quran.
@@Exploreradd But the miracle of the Jesus birth is qualitatively different to the other supposed miracles and is intimately linked to the Christian idea of the incarnation and that Jesus is the projection of the divine. There were reasons for these other "miracles' - Adam and Eve were the first humans so they could not have parents, Moses and the parting of the sea was to free the Israelites from the pursuing Egyptians. The Ark was to save the family of Noah from the waters but the Koran gives no explanation for the idea of the virgin birth and what it was meant to achieve. Jesus himself never boasted about it nor did the disciples -you would think they would have if they wanted to point to God's miracles and achievements. The answer is that is a specifically Christian doctrine which the Koran misunderstood. Jesus in Islam simply doesn't fit -it's like having Batman in a film about Dracula!
@@kaloarepo288 the reason Jesus was without a father in Islam is the same reason Adam and no father or mother, God simple says be and it is. Meaning he simply Wills things to exist. Eve came from a man and Jesus came from a women by the power of god simple as that. But, there are certain things can’t do because it is below him such as eat, poop, have a son/ daughter, marry, create a rock so heavy that he can’t even lift, I could go on. Because we believe all that is gibberish and contradictory to God the all mighty
@@Exploreradd That's the reason given in the Koran and it doesn't make any sense - the obvious explanation is that the Koran got it wrong and if you had any integrity you would admit it.
@@kaloarepo288 bro you’re saying the Quran is wrong because the Bible and I said so. And how dare you question my integrity? I believe I found the truth just as you believe you found your truth. We have to come to common ground and believe in ONE all powerful and all knowing GOD. You believe that GOD is the father the son and holy spirit which I disagree with.
The existence of a God is logically impossible. But suppose that perfection can arise from imperfection, and therefore a God arises who is perfect. Then everything that God would want to do is logically possible, including the Holy Trinity. Mohammed Hijab is just playing with words and saying nothing sensible. He copied that well from other people who use philosophy to wrap nonsense in so-called logic that has nothing to do with reality. As an atheist I have to admit that these are often atheists too. Maybe people who believe in perfection should ask themselves something very simple. Why would something that is perfect do anything? It doesn't have to do anything, it's already perfect...
If it's limitless it would have to be 'doing' something, regardless of whether it is perfect or not. It cannot be 'already limitless'. Imho there are a few people (like Kant) who got some serious work done, we just need to improve it, perhaps fix some things that are still not good etc.
@@chr_my I understand that philosophy is and has been very useful, just like mathematics. I just know for sure that perfection cannot exist, not physically anyway. I don't believe in creation, I believe that change occurs through imperfection. Something that is perfect will not change, think of a pendulum of a clock if it is in perfect balance, then the clock stands still. Perfection is not energy and not movement. Perfection is something that is invented by man. Just like units to calculate things, it is not reality. For change you need something, everything has a beginning. If you start from imperfect emptiness then you have a beginning. If you start from perfect emptiness then you don't.
@@jakedark3506 You haven't read my comment properly man. I'll try again. 'Something that is perfect will not change, think of a pendulum ...' - but will something that is limitless change? Regardless of if it's perfect or not. Philosophy is not 'useful', it's ahead of you, you will not be able to avoid it. It'll get you, sooner or later.
So in Conclusion does the Hijab guy think that his deity can not do what Christians say? Is his Deity not powerful enough to do the impossible that he claims? 'Iv wInej? qeylIS. chay' wISam? matay'taHvIS. (qeylIS), maleghmeH yIwovmoH. reH. wInejtaHvIS reH So''egh'a'? not. In the end Goku can kill Superman.
The problem is...Yeah a God cannot do illogical things. Like the question can a god do a stone stronger than him Ofcourse he can't couse It's a contradiction
![Does God Exist? William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens - Full Debate [HD]](/img/n.gif)
I think my favourite discovery of this entire debate is Muhammad Hijab's rhetorical cackle (never noticed it before): 58:52
No, there are not 2 mothers. If you want to see Mary as the mother, okay. But the Holy Spirit is not a mother. The Holy Spirit puts faith in the hearts of people who are open to letting God into their hearts. Jesus could be seen as a son, but is actually a way that God has chosen to manifest himself in flesh and blood on earth. So actually the Holy Trinity is a way that God has chosen to communicate with man. If there were a God, I do not find this at all incoherent or strange.
Hijab is very similar to Trump in the ways that he presents his arguments, entertaining even if often unhinged.
A great many Christian scholars - including Aquinas - agree that the Trinity cannot be known nor demonstrated by reason alone and is a mystery that one must accept on faith. So judging by reason and logic alone, it's fair to say the concept of the Trinity is incoherent. On this point, I agree with MH. (That doesn't mean Islam is true of course.)
I have a Christian friend (who once appeared on the channel actually) and he conceded to me after this video came out that the Islamic concept of God is more coherent than the Trinity, and I made the same point to him: it doesn't mean Islam is true of course.
@SecularSpirit Even then it is not like Islam has its problems with Tawheed what about allahs two right hands and his foot, leg and shin these are debates that led to wars in the early muslim world
@@SecularSpirit Too many Muslims (& Christians to be fair) seem to fall into the fallacy of presenting a situation as having only two answers. ie. Christianity is wrong, therefore Islam is right.
@@halfwaydead3087 The belief in the uncreated eternality of the Qur'an is also problematic for tawheed. Even Allah's attributes were a source of dispute amongst Muslim scholars in the middle ages ie some argued God’s attributes such as speech and actions were created because attributes such as speech and action belong to bodies (ajsaam) and are therefore created and cannot be eternal.
@@HassanRadwan133 so I suppose there are still things that are still worthy of debate in the muslim world that could rival the trinity Mr Radwan?(and also it's a pleasure speaking to you!)
I'm glad to see the two of you being active again. I've noticed a drop in activity in both of your channels as of late and was wondering why, so it's a special treat to get a joint live.
For sure, always good to do stuff together. We were away for a while travelling, not sure if you saw it but you can catch my recap of our trip to Norway here: ua-cam.com/video/QyDBiH6-frw/v-deo.html
Secular Spirit, at 3:30 you’re overlooking one possibility-that CHRISTIANS didn’t come up with the Trinity idea, but that it’s Who GOD is and revealed Himself to be!
MH says two subjects responsable for the same thing is impossible but Mohammed ,Jibreel and Allah are all responsable for producing the Quran ,or not ?
Not a good comparison: Muslims believe the Quran is the word of Allah, and Jibreel and Mohammed simply received and transmitted it.
@@SecularSpirit Yes , but Mohammed had free will and he chose to transmit the message that he recieved and therefor he carries responsability , if he did not have this choice than he was a robot controlled by Allah.
@@ultrasignificantfootnote3378 Sure, but that still doesn't mean he was responsible for creating it. Same goes for if someone was sharing a story someone told them, it's still not their story.
@@SecularSpirit In my view ,the one who produces a message is not necessarily also the creator/designer and originator of it , to produce can simply mean to bring forth. Allah is the originator ( if he is real ) and Mohammed was the (re)producer of his auditory hallucination of Allah.
@@ultrasignificantfootnote3378 stop shifting your goal post..
The moment when dr Craig casually ignores summarizing the debate and just adertises his website was so funny, but then Hijab first called him on that but just did the same made me laugh so hard, that was pure comedy gold.
As a Christian i did enjoy your livestream. Alot calmer than......and you can actually think about things. Alladin asked a Question. Why must their be three. I think Anthony Rogers may be a good person to answer this but i may be able to help a little. 1. God is known as Love and also eternal and spending eternity alone before creation would leave God without anyone to love and we know that love is not just a word it's an act. It says the father loves the Son and all things were created through him and for him. 2. All 3 persons has a role the father being the God head resides in heaven and is the authority. The Son being the first born and heir to the throne( Just as a Human Prince is not Less Royal than his father but a King in the making. God is Eternal yet through the sacrifice all things were given to Jesus by the Father) and the Holy Spirit which Christian believes dwells within them is omnipresent as you expect a Spirit to be and also allows God to be with man and dwell inside of man.
3. We don't expect the most incredible being to be nothing less than complex we don't expect a single cell organism.In hebrew it Says the Lord is Echad which means Unity. You would expect and all powerful being to be extremely complex yet in monotheism this complexity is one whearas the Pagans divide it and have a different God for everything to the point Hindus are in the millions. Strangely tawheed also means unification.
So the problem is that the Christian God think Blasphemy is the worst sin.
And we both know that Blasphemy is so much easier in Christianity.
It's extremely hard NOT to blaspheme.
..If God would be such a complex being he wouldn't have the Blaspheme rule.
@@arafatmarius331 i think you might be confusing with blaspheming holy spirit, then yeah but most people would not purposely do it they most mostly like do it by accident
@arafatmarius331 so the blasphemy law was for the children of Israel in the Old Testament. Jesus was Blasphemed, spat on beaten up brutally and mocked. Yet he said Father Forgive them for they know not what to do. That is why no Christian country has a Blasphemy law. Do you have any questions about my explanation on why must there be 3?
@@halfwaydead3087 still is a Blasphemy witch cannot be forgiven..Jesus dosen't specify you must do it by the fact that you want.
@@XANDER_REED I was talking about Matthew 12:31
“I don’t have a dog in this fight” 😂
Regarding the Trinity, it's because God is an absolutely simple being of pure act that he has real relations with the same essence. For example, in the act of perfectly knowing himself, God is simultaneously the knower (the father), the object being known (the son), and the act of knowing (holy spirit) that unites both. This fits with Jesus as the Word or Logos, the perfect intellectual expression that proceeds from the father. To love, God is simultaneously the lover, the object of love, and the act of love.
That rhetorically sounds good, but to me it still seems arbitrary, I'm sorry.
I find Mohammad Hijab obnoxious with his aggressive speaking. There are lots of irrational things which are taken on faith in every religion, including Islam. Many of the 100 names/attributes of Allah are polar opposites.
@58:30 What if Bulma & Chichi fusion danced then Vegeta & Goku fusion danced. After that Gogeta and Chima had sex and got pregnant. Would that answer his question after they defused?
The fact that u use anime for arguments must dismental your argument...But let's ignore that and say where your argument falls
You forgot the partialism.
@@arafatmarius331 I said he gets her pregnant. What does a fetish on a body part have to do with anything?
Wow are you guys seriously impressed by Mohammed Hijab arguments? People aren't getting any smarter...
His grating style aside, he did make a few good points and a few irrelevant ones where I suspect he misunderstood Craig. The thing is, the problems with the Trinity are very clear: you need faith to make it work.
Secular spirit do you deny that there is no such thing as multiple causes creating a single effect? I do take you and Alladin's point of why there are such redundancies but does this really have anything to do with whether Craig's arguments are logically coherent or incoherent? Isn't this debate about defending the logical worldview of the doctrine of the trinity not to prove it? You can correct me if I am wrong.
Don't deny that at all, but the point Craig was making is that multiple causes are actually one thing working in concert together, which I'd say is logically incoherent and that's the subject of the debate. I'd add that this is subject is about proving it is logically coherent.
@@SecularSpirit but in regards to Muhammad's charge of partialism, it seems that Craig's argument is sufficient, if you can have multiple causes creating a single effect the three persons creating the world together do not diminish what the three persons have done at all nor does it lead to partialism. Can you clarify what you mean? Where was the logical contradiction from what Craig has said? You don't like his argument in regards to each person in the trinity being perfect nor do you like the fact that the members in the trinity can create the world together without diminishing what each member has done through causal determination, but where is the logical contradiction or the incoherence?
There are no two mothers. If you want to see Mary as a mother, fine. But the Holy Spirit is not a mother. The Holy Spirit guides, inspires and encourages the hearts of those who are open to letting God into their hearts. Jesus could be seen as a son, but is a way that God has chosen to manifest himself in flesh and blood on earth. So the Holy Trinity is a way that God has chosen to communicate with man. I don’t find this at all inconsistent or strange. Three is one, anything Hijab comes up with just shows that he can’t even understand something so simple. It’s not 3 that is responsible for one thing, it’s one God who chooses to communicate in a certain way.
@44:00 My response would be Tuvix, or Threevix in this descution.
The word is not Nicean, but Nicene (rhymes with “I’ve seen”).
Hijab failed to demonstrate incoherence, but instead emphasized disagreement among Christians, which was not relevant to the topic of the debate. Rhetorically it can appear strong to accuse WLC of "rejecting the majority of Christianity", but the logical coherence of the Trinity does not stand or fall with popularity. An incorrect understanding may well be incoherent, but again this does not demonstrate that the Trinity itself is incoherent, even if it is a popular misunderstanding, because the incoherence is introduced by a mistaken definition.
WLC demonstrated that there are plausible answers to all of the questions that Hijab raised, and whether Hijab is personally convinced of those does not affect whether the Trinity is logically coherent. Far from WLC needing to prove that the answers he gave to Hijab are necessarily true as a condition for demonstrating coherence, it was Hijab's job to demonstrate why his answers are necessarily impossible, which Hijab failed to do. As such the plausibility of WLC's answers stands and is enough to demonstrate that the Trinity is in fact logically coherent.
@45:00 Maybe their deity put points in parallel thinking and now has triallel thinking.
@46:00 Maybe his deity learned Kage Bunshin no Jutsu? You don't know him.
“The Father is God.
“The Son is God.
“Therefore, the Father is the Son.”
This is the fallacy of the undistributed middle term.
Cerberus, candles, how to light them properly and how not to, who can pump 100 kg by himself and who can't - these guys covered it all. 🤣
If Allah is one and has no partners and the greatest sin is to associate anyone with Allah but ONLY Muhammad can tell you what that Allah wants, he got you under his full control. That is why this became such an important issue back then (Muhammad needed it, it's NOT the greatest sin to think that God has a son or three daughters or whatever, there are greater ones), plus now Christianity is the main problem for Islam so they think this is one good way to undermine it. In my view it's not that hard to understand or accept the Trinity but I have no issue with Unitarians (or agnostics and atheists for that matter).
In the article “If there is a God, then anything is permitted”: On Dostoevsky, freedom, and religious violence (in the last part, The heavy burden of freedom), Zizek points out why this is important and the difference between Jews and Muslims, and Christians.
I find it funny how hijab picked someone who doesn't represent mainstream trinitarian theology and proceeded to argue he didn't...(also WLC also supports heresy ie. monothelitism)
Problem is that the Koran implicitly buys into the trinity doctrine where it believes that Christ had a virgin birth, performed amazing miracles like making live birds out of clay, of being rescued from the cross and taken to heaven and indeed being the Word - which is obviously a reference to the gospel of John where Christ is referred to as the Word existing from eternity with God -one of the main New Testament sources for the trinity idea. Islam would have made sense if it treated Jesus like any other prophet and not a highly special one!
But miracles don’t equal Godhood. Adam had no father or mother. Moses split the sea. Noah built the ark. That doesn’t equal divinity. All those miracles are in the Quran.
@@Exploreradd But the miracle of the Jesus birth is qualitatively different to the other supposed miracles and is intimately linked to the Christian idea of the incarnation and that Jesus is the projection of the divine. There were reasons for these other "miracles' - Adam and Eve were the first humans so they could not have parents, Moses and the parting of the sea was to free the Israelites from the pursuing Egyptians. The Ark was to save the family of Noah from the waters but the Koran gives no explanation for the idea of the virgin birth and what it was meant to achieve. Jesus himself never boasted about it nor did the disciples -you would think they would have if they wanted to point to God's miracles and achievements. The answer is that is a specifically Christian doctrine which the Koran misunderstood. Jesus in Islam simply doesn't fit -it's like having Batman in a film about Dracula!
@@kaloarepo288 the reason Jesus was without a father in Islam is the same reason Adam and no father or mother, God simple says be and it is. Meaning he simply Wills things to exist. Eve came from a man and Jesus came from a women by the power of god simple as that. But, there are certain things can’t do because it is below him such as eat, poop, have a son/ daughter, marry, create a rock so heavy that he can’t even lift, I could go on. Because we believe all that is gibberish and contradictory to God the all mighty
@@Exploreradd That's the reason given in the Koran and it doesn't make any sense - the obvious explanation is that the Koran got it wrong and if you had any integrity you would admit it.
@@kaloarepo288 bro you’re saying the Quran is wrong because the Bible and I said so. And how dare you question my integrity? I believe I found the truth just as you believe you found your truth. We have to come to common ground and believe in ONE all powerful and all knowing GOD. You believe that GOD is the father the son and holy spirit which I disagree with.
The existence of a God is logically impossible. But suppose that perfection can arise from imperfection, and therefore a God arises who is perfect. Then everything that God would want to do is logically possible, including the Holy Trinity. Mohammed Hijab is just playing with words and saying nothing sensible. He copied that well from other people who use philosophy to wrap nonsense in so-called logic that has nothing to do with reality. As an atheist I have to admit that these are often atheists too. Maybe people who believe in perfection should ask themselves something very simple. Why would something that is perfect do anything? It doesn't have to do anything, it's already perfect...
If it's limitless it would have to be 'doing' something, regardless of whether it is perfect or not. It cannot be 'already limitless'.
Imho there are a few people (like Kant) who got some serious work done, we just need to improve it, perhaps fix some things that are still not good etc.
@@chr_my I understand that philosophy is and has been very useful, just like mathematics. I just know for sure that perfection cannot exist, not physically anyway. I don't believe in creation, I believe that change occurs through imperfection. Something that is perfect will not change, think of a pendulum of a clock if it is in perfect balance, then the clock stands still. Perfection is not energy and not movement. Perfection is something that is invented by man. Just like units to calculate things, it is not reality. For change you need something, everything has a beginning. If you start from imperfect emptiness then you have a beginning. If you start from perfect emptiness then you don't.
@@jakedark3506 You haven't read my comment properly man. I'll try again.
'Something that is perfect will not change, think of a pendulum ...' - but will something that is limitless change? Regardless of if it's perfect or not.
Philosophy is not 'useful', it's ahead of you, you will not be able to avoid it. It'll get you, sooner or later.
you can not have any truth without God
Shalom brothers may God bless you always
So in Conclusion does the Hijab guy think that his deity can not do what Christians say? Is his Deity not powerful enough to do the impossible that he claims? 'Iv wInej? qeylIS. chay' wISam? matay'taHvIS. (qeylIS), maleghmeH yIwovmoH. reH. wInejtaHvIS reH So''egh'a'? not. In the end Goku can kill Superman.
The problem is...Yeah a God cannot do illogical things.
Like the question can a god do a stone stronger than him
Ofcourse he can't couse It's a contradiction
@@arafatmarius331 so much for all powerful.