@JazzClass Symphonic Music The Borg's transporter technology is based on an entirely different technology than the standard "particle beam" federation style. My assumption it is more interdimensional.
I do love how the Borg were so desperate for the technology that they not only bargain with Janeway, they go out of their way to protect her and save the Voyager from "Species 8472's" assault while sacrificing a few of their own cubes to do it. It's a display of vulnerability we had never seen before from Star Trek's scariest antagonist.
The Borg are not individuals. Every drone, every ship is expendable compared to the survival of the collective. And in this case, that requires Voyager to survive as it contains the data they need to ensure that survival
Indeed. And it was very cool to see the Borg forced to ........ Negotiate. I didn't think that term was in their vocabulary. I guess being able to 'adapt' really is one of their most powerful abilities.
***** A little curiosity: the Borg have transwarp technology, cannot they use to bring themselves and Voyager outside Borg space? (Even if it will be Kes who will do such a thing, and she is not a Borg). Guido.
Guidogregotti I imagine the borg are just savvy enough to realize that Janeway might try to use their transwarp taxi service and then race off without giving them the nano-probe technology. Offering help like that solves her problem, but doesn't do them any good, so there is no reason to volunteer that suggestion to her.
@@Guidogregotti Yup, that's the obvious hole in the plot. The Borg know exactly where the Federation is, and could use their transwarp network to get Voyager home in a matter of hours.
@@dirdib69 I think the canon answer is that there are multiple forms of Transwarp technology and they all allow for different velocities. I've kinda looked into it alot lol.
Janeway: This is a sample of the technology we possess Borg: We've seen your video, it's pretty self explanatory, It just looks like a modified nanoprobe attacking 8472's cells, we can work out the rest from here. Prepare for assimilation. Janeway: Crap
While the vid showed the probes attacking the cell - it didint specify how it was achieved or in what manner the probes were modified.- Standard borg probes were unable to attack succesfully the 8472 cells - so the mere knowledge that it was done by the probes wasnt enough. It's like you would show someone a nuclear bomb exploding - while cool it doesnt tell anything how the bomb actually works - the basic principle here is the same. All the vid showed was a promise of a viable way to attack the cells - nothing more of actuall value was present at the time. Borg Knew that - Janeway knew that - That was the only reason why they snatched her - They realised the potential value of what was offered. The Janeway gambit was fairly Solid - Basically we will give you a weapon to fight your enemy - and our price is You just to ... ignore us during our passage - which is basically nothing.
afaik (i dont know why im watching this i havnt seen star trek in like 10 years lol) the Borg cannot create any technology and are lousy/nonexistant scientists as they supress creativity. They can only assimilate new knowledge, not create it. Well they probably can, but are very slow/inefficient at doing so.
Fortunately (or unfortunately) the UK was one or two years behind your transmissions at the time, so we only had to wait a week to see the next one, but, we only got to see it years after you did :)
The Borg are one of my favorite characters in Sci-Fi but it was cool to see them get their asses kicked by Species 8472. "There's always a bigger fish." -Qui-Gon Jinn
I always found myself imagining Federation ships in the Alpha and Beta quadrants suddenly finding Borg ships not fighting them and telling them about an alliance made by Captain Kathryn Janeway of the Starship Voyager.
At least the Kazon were something new. When that didn't deliver the ratings the writers fell back to fan service, spoon feeding the viewers the comfortingly familiar
@@IrishCarney I don't think the Kazon were really that new- they seemed a bit like cut-price Klingons to me with only their desperate nature making them appear difference. For me, the new reoccuring races that were most successful in Voyager were the Hirogen which combined a good Predator-esque hunting element with some fantastic makeup and good actors portraying them (Tony Todd, Tiny Ron etc.).
The largest flaw in Voyager is that it was unwilling to pursue an extended, sequential storyline even for strings of episodes. I mean, come on. An entire Borg war with S8472 in like two episodes?
You're entirely right. It could have lasted half a season. The format of Star Trek episodes and seasons were on the other hand more episodical during the 90's. Even with DS9, though that series is the closest to what you're intending.
@@numnut154 If Voyager was done now it would pander to this generations desire for everything to be inclusive instead of telling a good story to escape this dismal reality I didn’t say there was a Star Trek like that but just look at Discovery with non binary and gender neutral ppl in it
No, the cube was just trying to get out of the way of the exploding planet. A few moments later, they sacrificed themselves to stop species 8472 in an effort to protect the Collective through Voyager's new weapon.
I still cant get over how badly 8472 fucked up the Borg. Wolf 359, The Battle of Secor 001 were narrow victories for Starfleet. But 8472 ran over the borg like a hot knife through butter. Damn.
Wolf 359 was a total victory for the Borg cube. 39 Starfleet vessels were either irreparably damaged or outright destroyed, with nearly 11,000 casualties, including Sisko's first wife and Picard's friend Admiral Hanson. A number of Federation citizens and Starfleet officers in escape pods as well as on a civilian transport present were assimilated. The only victory arising from that was the cube's destruction later on by the Enterprise-E...in orbit of Earth. How was Wolf 359 a Starfleet victory?
Problem is that if they just suddenly beaned her out of there, why didn’t they just beam everyone into the Borg ship and assimilate everyone while they transport a few drones onto voyager to take the information by force? Like is the info on a type of timer or is the shop on self destruct?
Scorpion part 1 ending always used to give me chills. A Borg cu e running away from a planet blowing up, Voyager being yanked on a tractor beam like a dog on a leash...
"They'll push you, they'll threaten you." I love how Janeway went right up the BORG, spoke to them offering an alliance, shared info to entice, attempted to negotiate, was pushed by them, threatened by them, and then STOOD UP higher to them and pushed back with the truth. No one pushes her!.
You've got to admire Janeway. It takes an Iron Lady of a starfleet captain to negotiate alone with a near-omnipresent threat that wants to assimilate her and her ace-up-her-sleeve.
Борг да у них не было выхода против 8472, хотя оно сами начали войну против 8472, хотели завоевать новые территории, но Расса 8472 оказала сопротивление.
@@llwydanwyl Probably they can, first contact is the best proof for that, in that movie they ARE omnipresent, same goes for picard, the borg are prettymuch omnipresent.
Considering how picky the Borg were about who was worth assimilating it’s kind of a compliment that the Queen herself was so interested in Picard and Janeway.
When you're used to waiting full episodes for incremental plot developments in ST, to have a bunch of alien ships turn up and just blast a Borg world to pieces with literally Zero introduction was genuinely shocking.
I love the fact that the Borg cube rotated onto the same plane as Voyager. That should be depicted more often in space fiction because...you know...there are (at least) 3 dimensions a vessel can move through.
I would have loved to see a season long arc of Voyager exploring Borg space finding crippled worlds, refugees, and sneaking their way around losing a fair portion of the crew and having the ship inflicted with compounding damage through the series.
BSG in a nutshell. Every single missle hit, every live lost mattered. In every episode it had a # of survivors whiteboard. By the end of the show the old girl was on her last leg.
To me, one of the funniest bits in all of Voyager is when Seven of Nine mentions that the Kazon were so unremarkable that the Borg refused to assimilate them. "They would detract from our perfection."
To be fair, the Borg/Voyager alliance was important for the survival of life in the entire galaxy AND to the survival of Voyager, while there was nothing to gain from an alliance with the Kazon.
Spihk Heartbust!? Can Spihk Heartbust get Bozeman Hotmail Recipient's Roommate's Ghnavel Feces to stop Bozeman Hotmail Recipient from being prescribed to respridone which is Connected to Bozeman Hotmail Recipient recording music at Mount Server Derek's Parents house!
Just my opinion, but representing the Collective this way instead of one or two talking individuals is a lot more effective. It gives the viewer more of a sense of their vastness and inhuman perspective.
I wonder how the Borg would react to the Cybermen from Doctor Who and visa versa... One wants to become perfect by absorbing all cultures, knowledge, and people into themselves, the other thinks it already is perfect and wants to make everyone else perfect by removing what makes them different from them. Would they fight, team up, or try to convert/assimilate each other? Who would end up dominating?
Late to this party. But the answer is, they both lose and they both win at the same time. I had a similar discussion about the Flood, Zerg, and Tyranids
What a scene, might be my favourite from the series honestly.. this is 10x better designed than the death star destroying planets, even in the new SW movies
What I really like about this scene: AFTER the Borg realized Janeway held possible tactical information they could not afford to lose they bring her on board and request her demands. They don’t like her demands and counter it with logic and tactical “reality” attempting to get technology and assimilate more. Janeway does NOT relent or backdown. Silence... The queen and her “staff” calculate possibilities, technical data, their weapons research, battle records, and decide to table assimilation...for now... and humor Janeway or actually listen to her for now. They relent and request her proposal. 02:09
And interesting bit, it looks as if the other borg cubes are moving into position to try and shield Voyager and the Cube tractoring it. At least partially, from the exploding planet.
Cliffhanger! I remember thinking about this all summer then we get Seven of Nine Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix-01 on the Part 2 after. Yowza! I miss good Star Trek.
Ever wonder what Starfleet thought when they saw the Voyager logs? Admiral: hmmm it says here you gave the borg bio-weapons that melt people Janeway: Well that was to defeat one of their enemies and get across their space Admiral: And you executed one of your crew a Mr. Tuvix Janeway: Well i needed more crew members anyway Admiral: And there's all those incidents with the time line Janeway: That was sorted out by some future guy, i promise there'll be no more time travel *cough suckers*cough
"Then there's this Equinox incident, you tortured their crew?!?" "Ransem was getting away." "Uh... huh. And your EMH... I stress again, *emergency* medical program, ran continuously for long enough to become sapient? And you DIDN'T consider the ramifications of creating a new life form this way?" "My doctor was dead, the hell else was I to do? Hire an alien?" "You did that! TWICE! One of them was your cook! and... navigator?! YOU GAVE AN ALIEN MERCENARY ACCESS TO FEDERATION STAR CHARTS?!?" "Who? OH, right, that little loser we dumped in an asteroid a few weeks ago." "I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that. And speaking of passengers, a Borg drone? Y-you know they're all connected in a hive mind and tried to take over the Federation twice now, right?" "The ratings were dropping, we needed a hot bod to rep the brand!" "Well, at least you didn't poison a Maquis planet. Welcome home, *Admiral* Janeway."
@Jerry Mathurin Everything Sisko did was for the good of the Alpha Quadrant. Oceania has always been at war with East Asia. Epstein totally killed himself.
I'll be honest, even though TNG post season 2 neglected to use the Borg beyond the stuff with Hugh and Lore, this moment kind of really damaged their reputation. I also think the decision to give them a queen was in direct opposition to the idea of them being a nameless faceless collective. But then again the concept of Locutus was similar.
I dont like the queen either. But janeways realpolitik negotiations with borg is good. If u bring something to the table, they will talk. Instead of being npc. I agree that the collective hive AI cube is precisely what makes them so disturbing. Hes just a scout. He might try to take control of your ship. IiiiiiiiiiiiiI wouldn't let him 😂 Luccutis wasn't like the Queen. The borg deliberately assimilated captain picard precisely because of his intimate knowledge of federation federation tactics and strategies
Not really Locutus was a disposable drone. Plus given that the Borg witnessed the Federation flagship being swiped away it made the Federation a priority for the Borg. It was pretty clear Locutus was a disposable. But the subsequent episodes with Picard acting as Locutus did undermine the Borg to some decree
I love how the borg just beamed Janeway out of there while shes trying to convince them to negotiate...They arrived at their conclusion way before she finished her sentence. Just goes to show how quickly the Borg can reason.
Species 116 has a vested interest in this war between the Borg and Species 8472. Stand down Captain Janeway or Arturis will set a trap for you! - Hope and Fear -
A superb episode. Love the pacing, the acting, and the soundtrack. That obvious green screen shot of Janeway on the cube though is so very badly lit though. Even for late 90s, it is pretty dire.
The borg dont give ... they take... you dont give the federation transwarp technology..they would replicate it and start attacking your homeworlds... thats always the borg advantage...they attack the federation with impunity knowing their powerbase and supply lines are safe in the delta quadrant where the federation cant go.
Voyager has some of the coolest ideas in Trek, like Species 8472 concept or when they get trapped in that black space and need to either work together or destroy other ships to steal from, to survive
Hi all, things like this episode that makes Star Trek great and fantastic to watch, now i WANNA see the next episode! even though ive allready seen them to death! not quite! lol! totally miss Voyager!
+damdarch They may not have been near an opening to the conduits, the Borg may not have wanted Janeway (and eventually the rest of the Federation) to learn about the transwarp conduits, the transwarp conduits may not have been written into existence yet so how could the Borg utilize technology they didn´t have?
Transwarp conduits were introduced in TNG's "Descent, Part I," about four years prior to this episode, and the Borg assimilated Starfleet personnel in First Contact, which took place earlier the same year as this episode, so unless Starfleet classified information on the Borg's use of transwarp conduits, they should have known that Janeway and crew knew about them. The only logical explanation is that there was no nearby aperture to make use of.
Simple, Janeway wanted safe passageway through their space by her own means and The Borg would not want to reveal such a huge and somewhat fragile tactical advantage.
Allegory on WW2 alliance with Soviet Union against Nazism. Innacurate as Lend Lease shortened but didn't decide the War. Without Lend Lease the Soviets would have needed another year or two to win. Nice exciting episode though.
My favourite episode of Voyager. I was just so disappointed in Part 2 however, even if it did introduce Seven of Nine. I was expecting it to lead up to a climatic Borg/Species 8472/Voyager conflict, but instead we just got Chakotay giving Seven a headache...
By all intents and purposes, it would have made more sense to side with 8472. The writers just made the Federation side with the Borg because the audience knows more of the Borg. 8472 if I recall, just didn't want others fucking with their territory, which the Borg were hostile.
I can't stand Janeway's stupidity, which starts at beginning of season 4 and continues until the end of the series. She wasted a great opportunity to make an alliance with a powerful alien species which kicked the Borg's collective asses. She arrived to the conclusion the fluidic space alien had to be stopped just because one of them wounded Harry Kim, making her angry to the point she tells Chakotay that maybe the fluidic space aliens deserve to be anhialated, and because Kess has a brief contact with the aliens when she heres "the weak shall perish". All it took was these two things, both of them a misunderstanding which could have been resolved had Janeway tried to contact the aliens and hear their side of the story. But no she decides to pass judgement in an entire species based on vague information. And let's not forget that when she helped the borg she doomed several other worlds that would be assimilated in the years that followed. Bravo Janeway you protected the future of your crew by destroying the future of billions, perhaps even trillions of individuals.
Jean Jack Beaupainx u said they could of made an alliance with species whatever they are and kill bork who killed trillions when they destroyed the borg ya good so far but then u realize they say the weak shall perish and they want all life purged tell me would u want something even stronger than the borg to come in and threaten to purge your universe? LOL I wouldn’t also how does this decision make her stupid on her part it’s the best she could have made.
@@Leavemealone670 You would be right if was that simple and we lived in a black and white world. Species 4872 was only attacking the borg because they assumed it wasn't just the borg who wanted to destroy them. They misinterpreted the borg's attack has an attack from the entire Milky Way Galaxy. From their point of view they were fighting for their survival. Has we see in the episode of Species 4872's training ground to infiltrate Starfleet, they were training for a reconnaissance mission to determine weter or not the Federation was a threat. And they showed interest in the different alien species culture and were even open to a truce once the Voyager crew clarified why they had sided with the Borg. All of this could have been done so a lot earlier and saved trillions of lives had Janeway attempted to a dialogue with Species 8472, rather than attack them based on extremely vague information. Which for someone who should be an expert at diplomacy shows extreme incompetence and negligence on her part.
Borg are like... no we need this knowledge NAO because crossing our space is too vast and will take too much time... I guess the idea of the Borg transwarp network is just a giant secret...or as we all believe... a giant convenient plot point to be retconned at the end of the series lmao
This would have made an incredible movie, it deserved that budget. I never watched the show but have watched this particular story line. I enjoyed how the Borg found the alien race and were immediately overwhelmed by their organic technology. It’s literally liked they poked a killer be hive and their very existence is now threatened because of it.
My only quibble with this amazing scene is that the Borg states it would take too much time to transport them past their territory. And yet all they had to do was pulled Voyager inside their docking area - since we know the sphere ship cubes have are around the same size as Voyager - then transwarp out their territory. After that, they let Voyager go and then Janeway drops a probe with the information and they go on their way.
In the end the federation and species 8472 made peace with each other so this whole effort was in vain. Janeway should have let species 8472 destroy the borg
The Borg never denies that they will assimilate them, they simply state the fact that for Janeway and her crew to live (presumably upon assimilation) requires they hand them the data. I like the consistency in that I also wouldn't expect a computer to lie or get emotional even with the threat of annihilation.
Janeway on her own inside a Borg cube discussing a possible alliance gives me the creeps - she is one and they are many - that's why i am not a start ship captain
*_"We are the USA Government, lower your defences and prepared to be assimilated. We will add your cultural and technological likeness to service ours - resistance is futile"_*
"state your proposal"
when you know you've achieved a milestone of the century
"So proposals AREN'T irrelevant!"
@@jerodast I didn't think "proposal" was a word in their vocabulary.
Initially, "State your demands" - Big difference. Janeway is using extortion to get what she wants from the Borg.
"Shields up."
Borg: "Awwww, they put their shields up. They're adorable!"
😂
loool
@JazzClass Symphonic Music The Borg's transporter technology is based on an entirely different technology than the standard "particle beam" federation style. My assumption it is more interdimensional.
@@TheBulitt good, cause the particle beam style is a death machine.
Resistance is cute I’ll say
The sight of the Borg cube pulling Voyager to safety is so surreal. Love this episode.
One of the greatest cliff hangers in Star Trek history!
I do love how the Borg were so desperate for the technology that they not only bargain with Janeway, they go out of their way to protect her and save the Voyager from "Species 8472's" assault while sacrificing a few of their own cubes to do it. It's a display of vulnerability we had never seen before from Star Trek's scariest antagonist.
The Borg are not individuals. Every drone, every ship is expendable compared to the survival of the collective. And in this case, that requires Voyager to survive as it contains the data they need to ensure that survival
@@kdemetter who you tryna kid you know darn well the borg have a soft spot for janeway. Just look at her
She was once assimilated.
F-22 Balloon pop
Indeed. And it was very cool to see the Borg forced to ........ Negotiate. I didn't think that term was in their vocabulary.
I guess being able to 'adapt' really is one of their most powerful abilities.
@@kdemetter Logical. Flawlessly logical.
"Our space is vast" Darn that's chilling..
***** A little curiosity: the Borg have transwarp technology, cannot they use to bring themselves and Voyager outside Borg space?
(Even if it will be Kes who will do such a thing, and she is not a Borg).
Guido.
Guidogregotti I imagine the borg are just savvy enough to realize that Janeway might try to use their transwarp taxi service and then race off without giving them the nano-probe technology. Offering help like that solves her problem, but doesn't do them any good, so there is no reason to volunteer that suggestion to her.
***** Estimates place the Borg as controlling almost fully *half* of the *entire* Milky Way.
@@Guidogregotti Yup, that's the obvious hole in the plot. The Borg know exactly where the Federation is, and could use their transwarp network to get Voyager home in a matter of hours.
@@dirdib69 I think the canon answer is that there are multiple forms of Transwarp technology and they all allow for different velocities. I've kinda looked into it alot lol.
One of the biggest lines in trek history; “State your demands. “
"We know your in danger of being defeated" i think thats a bigger line.. the thought of the borg losing so decisively
For sure.
Actually, the biggest line in Trek history is: "Beam me up Scotty".
@@Holdington Actually, the phrase "Beam me up Scotty" was never said in star trek TOS (look it up) :)
@@Requinix17 No I'm pretty sure it's said at least a few times each season.
Janeway: This is a sample of the technology we possess
Borg: We've seen your video, it's pretty self explanatory, It just looks like a modified nanoprobe attacking 8472's cells, we can work out the rest from here. Prepare for assimilation.
Janeway: Crap
Spacegoat92 lol :)
Fortunately the borg can't create their own technology.
While the vid showed the probes attacking the cell - it didint specify how it was achieved or in what manner the probes were modified.- Standard borg probes were unable to attack succesfully the 8472 cells - so the mere knowledge that it was done by the probes wasnt enough.
It's like you would show someone a nuclear bomb exploding - while cool it doesnt tell anything how the bomb actually works - the basic principle here is the same. All the vid showed was a promise of a viable way to attack the cells - nothing more of actuall value was present at the time.
Borg Knew that - Janeway knew that - That was the only reason why they snatched her - They realised the potential value of what was offered. The Janeway gambit was fairly Solid - Basically we will give you a weapon to fight your enemy - and our price is You just to ... ignore us during our passage - which is basically nothing.
afaik (i dont know why im watching this i havnt seen star trek in like 10 years lol) the Borg cannot create any technology and are lousy/nonexistant scientists as they supress creativity. They can only assimilate new knowledge, not create it. Well they probably can, but are very slow/inefficient at doing so.
Or they could just assimilate someone on the crew who understands how it works.
This was my first Trek cliffhanger, when I was a kid...I remember thinking the summer would NEVER end!
The Best of Both Worlds was even more intense lol.
Fortunately (or unfortunately) the UK was one or two years behind your transmissions at the time, so we only had to wait a week to see the next one, but, we only got to see it years after you did :)
the borg ship protecting the voyager was one of the best moments that episode
They weren’t defending Voyager, they couldn’t allow their demise.
I don’t want you to win, I want them to lose.
The Borg are one of my favorite characters in Sci-Fi but it was cool to see them get their asses kicked by Species 8472. "There's always a bigger fish." -Qui-Gon Jinn
this reminds me of kim saying "...15... borg vessels"
Star wars reference on a Star Trek video.... BLASPHEMY!
Actually in movie history that quote is contributed from Merlin in "Excalibur".
I defiantly agree. But I'm afraid to ask, who is "bigger" the Species 8472?
I don't think Darth Maul like that quote much...
I always found myself imagining Federation ships in the Alpha and Beta quadrants suddenly finding Borg ships not fighting them and telling them about an alliance made by Captain Kathryn Janeway of the Starship Voyager.
Muahaha nice.
Federation doesn't enter the Beta quadrant.
@@alphanerd7221 Wdym by that? Vulcan is in the Beta quadrant, as well as Earth, Qo’noS, and Romulus. And it’s been explored in TNG.
That would have been great to see!
@@BeastBoom24 No. That's the alpha quadrant, except for the Romulans, who extend into the beta quadrant, but the federation doesn't go there.
This was one of the arcs that deserved more episodes. And it was a complete turnaround from the bad Kazon storylines.
At least the Kazon were something new. When that didn't deliver the ratings the writers fell back to fan service, spoon feeding the viewers the comfortingly familiar
@@IrishCarney The Kazon felt like a primitive kilngon society.
@@windrunner9158 They even looked like it too.
I absolutely hated the Kazon episodes, every damn time
@@IrishCarney I don't think the Kazon were really that new- they seemed a bit like cut-price Klingons to me with only their desperate nature making them appear difference. For me, the new reoccuring races that were most successful in Voyager were the Hirogen which combined a good Predator-esque hunting element with some fantastic makeup and good actors portraying them (Tony Todd, Tiny Ron etc.).
The largest flaw in Voyager is that it was unwilling to pursue an extended, sequential storyline even for strings of episodes. I mean, come on. An entire Borg war with S8472 in like two episodes?
@@ronaldcustard4636 ?
@@hueblu It would be 2 seasons of trans-gay-bi child relationship building with 1 episode of story building.
You're entirely right. It could have lasted half a season. The format of Star Trek episodes and seasons were on the other hand more episodical during the 90's. Even with DS9, though that series is the closest to what you're intending.
@@ronaldcustard4636 lmao which new Trek series has a transgender Captain?
@@numnut154 If Voyager was done now it would pander to this generations desire for everything to be inclusive instead of telling a good story to escape this dismal reality I didn’t say there was a Star Trek like that but just look at Discovery with non binary and gender neutral ppl in it
The cube at the end was like "Nope, they just went Death Star on that planet, getting the hell out of here."
No, the cube was just trying to get out of the way of the exploding planet. A few moments later, they sacrificed themselves to stop species 8472 in an effort to protect the Collective through Voyager's new weapon.
@@dwightstewart7181 Seven of Nine usually wreaks her starship to save another. From Star Trek Picard, Seven has regained another a Borg Cube.
I still cant get over how badly 8472 fucked up the Borg. Wolf 359, The Battle of Secor 001 were narrow victories for Starfleet. But 8472 ran over the borg like a hot knife through butter. Damn.
How was Wolf 359 a victory for Star Fleet?
Wolf 359 was a total victory for the Borg cube. 39 Starfleet vessels were either irreparably damaged or outright destroyed, with nearly 11,000 casualties, including Sisko's first wife and Picard's friend Admiral Hanson. A number of Federation citizens and Starfleet officers in escape pods as well as on a civilian transport present were assimilated. The only victory arising from that was the cube's destruction later on by the Enterprise-E...in orbit of Earth. How was Wolf 359 a Starfleet victory?
It was a minor victory, but the Federation still walked away alive, unlike the Borg.
I think he meant the eventual destruction of the borg cube and thus the narrow defeat of the borg.
All it took for Species 8472 to rethink invasion plans was for the death of Billy from Gremlins...
There's coffee in that Collective!
oxmys instead of a borg cube it's just a giant bunn coffee maker.
toasters :D
@@angryspoidah9607 lmao
And Janeway won't admit that's her true intention for going through Borg space.
This just shows that the borg CAN be reasoned with. Granted it's only when interests align, but thanks to Hugh, the borg changed forever.
I want Stark Trek, but without space Jesus 😑
changed from existential threat to another sunday villain
Did their interests really align?
The only goal the Borg had was Their survival.
Good old Hugh
Problem is that if they just suddenly beaned her out of there, why didn’t they just beam everyone into the Borg ship and assimilate everyone while they transport a few drones onto voyager to take the information by force?
Like is the info on a type of timer or is the shop on self destruct?
Scorpion part 1 ending always used to give me chills. A Borg cu e running away from a planet blowing up, Voyager being yanked on a tractor beam like a dog on a leash...
And then the channel narrator says 'And Star trek voyager returns in the Autumn'.....we were like....NOOOOO !
Good thing I started watching in season 6 lol
"They'll push you, they'll threaten you."
I love how Janeway went right up the BORG, spoke to them offering an alliance, shared info to entice, attempted to negotiate, was pushed by them, threatened by them, and then STOOD UP higher to them and pushed back with the truth. No one pushes her!.
the fact that she needs only ten what ed -209s need 20 is even more awesome
“The borg have neither honor nor courage. That is their weakness.”
Sir Mount true
She's a tough old lesbian.
@@dudeonyoutube What's up with the misogyny?
"They locked onto us with a tractor beam."
NO SHIT TUVOK
SHIT NO TUVOK
@@williamcase426 TUVOK SHIT NO (pulls his pants up again)
@@jimbeam4736 BAD TUVOK
@@williamcase426 TUVE BADOK.
@BottleOfWater SOMEAWE!
“Negotiation is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.”
“Okay, then we’ll make an alliance with them inste-“
“Negotiation IS relevant.”
When your trying to get time off of work that’s exactly how boss responds lol
"Our space is vast, your passage would take too much time".
Says the people with transwarp tech which could get them across it in about an hour.
Could be an hour that makes all the difference :P
3:18 Janeway with the oblivion Npc acting.
Imagine being on a ship and the captain says let's go look for a borg vessel
I miss Star Trek....
Have you watch the orville
The Picard series is pretty good
@@russellmills4928 uuuuhhhh
Me too.
Me too
You've got to admire Janeway. It takes an Iron Lady of a starfleet captain to negotiate alone with a near-omnipresent threat that wants to assimilate her and her ace-up-her-sleeve.
omg it is a movie
@@jozkomrkvicka7607 Wow, I never knew it was fiction!
Борг да у них не было выхода против 8472, хотя оно сами начали войну против 8472, хотели завоевать новые территории, но Расса 8472 оказала сопротивление.
ther eis no such thing as near-omnipresent.. even if there was, the Borg aren’t that
@@llwydanwyl Probably they can, first contact is the best proof for that, in that movie they ARE omnipresent, same goes for picard, the borg are prettymuch omnipresent.
It looks like the Borg pissed off the Vorlons.
I was looking for this comment. Thanks for not disappointing!
Maybe the writers got their inspiration from Babylon 5.
@@_capr_545 This is not some deep space franchise! xD
@Prander5x5 More like the Thirdspace aliens.
It's easier to ask who the Borg didn't piss off.
Considering how picky the Borg were about who was worth assimilating it’s kind of a compliment that the Queen herself was so interested in Picard and Janeway.
Species 8472 has a BADASS theme.
When you're used to waiting full episodes for incremental plot developments in ST, to have a bunch of alien ships turn up and just blast a Borg world to pieces with literally Zero introduction was genuinely shocking.
The first time I saw this I was stunned. Something stronger than the Borg was truly frightening to contemplate.
Damn awesome how the last borg cube decided to haul ass dragging the ship along with
I love the fact that the Borg cube rotated onto the same plane as Voyager. That should be depicted more often in space fiction because...you know...there are (at least) 3 dimensions a vessel can move through.
I would have loved to see a season long arc of Voyager exploring Borg space finding crippled worlds, refugees, and sneaking their way around losing a fair portion of the crew and having the ship inflicted with compounding damage through the series.
Like Year of Hell but a whole season... OMG sign me the F up LAST WEEK PLEASE!!!
So, Battlestar Galactica?
@@Mobius_118 havent seen it
BSG in a nutshell. Every single missle hit, every live lost mattered. In every episode it had a # of survivors whiteboard. By the end of the show the old girl was on her last leg.
Star Trek Voyager is my favorite Star Trek series. Love it :)
Captain Janeway:
~Refuses to ally with the Kazan in season 2 out of principle
~Allies with the Borg in season 3
To be fair, the Kazon were a bunch of idiots anyway
To me, one of the funniest bits in all of Voyager is when Seven of Nine mentions that the Kazon were so unremarkable that the Borg refused to assimilate them. "They would detract from our perfection."
@@raf7550 "Voyager 2.0"'s way of saying "okay, okay, we KNOW. version 1 had some shitty-ass villains, we'll try to do better going forward" haha.
@@raf7550 That moment when the Kazon were the most disliked species in the Delta quadrant.
To be fair, the Borg/Voyager alliance was important for the survival of life in the entire galaxy AND to the survival of Voyager, while there was nothing to gain from an alliance with the Kazon.
You can hear her voice almost crack at 'work together'. Great acting
The way Janeway delivers the line, "You have 10 seconds to comply." Always gives me chills.
She speaks their language.
doesn't take much to give you chills ehh?
Species 8472 had an amazing attack pattern
This really is Oscar quality stuff. The graphics are stunning and the writing is, well, let's just say it is only eclipsed by the acting.
One of the best story lines in the history of Star Trek. 🙂
Spihk Heartbust!? Can Spihk Heartbust get Bozeman Hotmail Recipient's Roommate's Ghnavel Feces to stop Bozeman Hotmail Recipient from being prescribed to respridone which is Connected to Bozeman Hotmail Recipient recording music at Mount Server Derek's Parents house!
Just my opinion, but representing the Collective this way instead of one or two talking individuals is a lot more effective. It gives the viewer more of a sense of their vastness and inhuman perspective.
I wonder how the Borg would react to the Cybermen from Doctor Who and visa versa...
One wants to become perfect by absorbing all cultures, knowledge, and people into themselves, the other thinks it already is perfect and wants to make everyone else perfect by removing what makes them different from them. Would they fight, team up, or try to convert/assimilate each other? Who would end up dominating?
There was a Doctor Who comic that dealt with this exact question. It was called Assimilation^2, check it out.
Late to this party. But the answer is, they both lose and they both win at the same time.
I had a similar discussion about the Flood, Zerg, and Tyranids
It’s good to know the Borg can say other things other then “We Are The Borg. You Will Be Assimilated”
They can technically say anything in any alien language, they just don't usually choose to.
I have always loved the soundtrack to this episode; especially that last three minutes of it.
There's the easy way, and there's the Janeway.
What a scene, might be my favourite from the series honestly.. this is 10x better designed than the death star destroying planets, even in the new SW movies
The soundtrack to the episode is amazing.
What I really like about this scene:
AFTER the Borg realized Janeway held possible tactical information they could not afford to lose they bring her on board and request her demands.
They don’t like her demands and counter it with logic and tactical “reality” attempting to get technology and assimilate more.
Janeway does NOT relent or backdown.
Silence...
The queen and her “staff” calculate possibilities, technical data, their weapons research, battle records, and decide to table assimilation...for now... and humor Janeway or actually listen to her for now.
They relent and request her proposal.
02:09
And interesting bit, it looks as if the other borg cubes are moving into position to try and shield Voyager and the Cube tractoring it. At least partially, from the exploding planet.
Yes they did, why they didn't just tractor Voyager into the cube only the writers know.
Damn, I forgot how good this show was.
I always thought it was very chilling to see Voyager being dragged in tractor beam like that was like a dog on a leash...
Having established the Borg as an uncompromising hungering force, to then scared and desperate, really was interesting and top tier Star Trek writing.
Cliffhanger! I remember thinking about this all summer then we get Seven of Nine Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix-01 on the Part 2 after. Yowza! I miss good Star Trek.
You know you rock when you can make alliance with Borg.
Ever wonder what Starfleet thought when they saw the Voyager logs?
Admiral: hmmm it says here you gave the borg bio-weapons that melt people
Janeway: Well that was to defeat one of their enemies and get across their space
Admiral: And you executed one of your crew a Mr. Tuvix
Janeway: Well i needed more crew members anyway
Admiral: And there's all those incidents with the time line
Janeway: That was sorted out by some future guy, i promise there'll be no more time travel *cough suckers*cough
You don't get this show. It's above you.
"Then there's this Equinox incident, you tortured their crew?!?"
"Ransem was getting away."
"Uh... huh. And your EMH... I stress again, *emergency* medical program, ran continuously for long enough to become sapient? And you DIDN'T consider the ramifications of creating a new life form this way?"
"My doctor was dead, the hell else was I to do? Hire an alien?"
"You did that! TWICE! One of them was your cook! and... navigator?! YOU GAVE AN ALIEN MERCENARY ACCESS TO FEDERATION STAR CHARTS?!?"
"Who? OH, right, that little loser we dumped in an asteroid a few weeks ago."
"I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that. And speaking of passengers, a Borg drone? Y-you know they're all connected in a hive mind and tried to take over the Federation twice now, right?"
"The ratings were dropping, we needed a hot bod to rep the brand!"
"Well, at least you didn't poison a Maquis planet. Welcome home, *Admiral* Janeway."
@Jerry Mathurin Everything Sisko did was for the good of the Alpha Quadrant. Oceania has always been at war with East Asia. Epstein totally killed himself.
I think after seeing all the violations giving her a desk job would be the best option
btw they COULD both save Tuvix and restore Nilix and Tuvok. Their teleportation magic can do that kind of trick, they just didn't bother.
I'll be honest, even though TNG post season 2 neglected to use the Borg beyond the stuff with Hugh and Lore, this moment kind of really damaged their reputation. I also think the decision to give them a queen was in direct opposition to the idea of them being a nameless faceless collective. But then again the concept of Locutus was similar.
I dont like the queen either. But janeways realpolitik negotiations with borg is good. If u bring something to the table, they will talk. Instead of being npc. I agree that the collective hive AI cube is precisely what makes them so disturbing. Hes just a scout. He might try to take control of your ship. IiiiiiiiiiiiiI wouldn't let him 😂
Luccutis wasn't like the Queen. The borg deliberately assimilated captain picard precisely because of his intimate knowledge of federation federation tactics and strategies
The Borg didn't start from nothing, right?
Well, whether a queen was a good additon or not, the interactions between Janeway and the queen were legendary.
You mean post season 3. The Borg "BOBW" 2-parter was the season 3 ender and season 4 beginner.
Not really Locutus was a disposable drone. Plus given that the Borg witnessed the Federation flagship being swiped away it made the Federation a priority for the Borg. It was pretty clear Locutus was a disposable. But the subsequent episodes with Picard acting as Locutus did undermine the Borg to some decree
Still the most epic series finale ever.
This is not the series finale, it's season 3's finale
3:19 me at a rave and the molly kicking in
That 1st time that someone has given the Borg a moment of pause.
When these particular episodes came out i was so excited :-)
Janeway takes care of Borg cubes as if they were sugar cubes, going into her morning coffee.
🤣
😉
Species 8472... The best thought of ever a race of pure matter living in a universe of liquid matter just awesome
I love how the borg just beamed Janeway out of there while shes trying to convince them to negotiate...They arrived at their conclusion way before she finished her sentence. Just goes to show how quickly the Borg can reason.
Patrick Bateman I was thinking similar. To them the idea of “working together” would be like asking Picasso to paint alongside a 5 year old.
Janeway famously picking and choosing when to follow that pesky prime directive and when to help the Borg commit genocide
Two words I never thought I'd see in the same sentence
"Alliance and borg"
How about. Let's form an alliance to defeat the Borg. I can see that being said a lot
That brass score when 8472 attacks the Borg ship - gangsta. Dats how we do
Species 116 has a vested interest in this war between the Borg and Species 8472.
Stand down Captain Janeway or Arturis will set a trap for you!
- Hope and Fear -
The brass score composition is gangsta!
Oh god, how I wish this gets remastered some day
The OG will always be my fave
A superb episode. Love the pacing, the acting, and the soundtrack. That obvious green screen shot of Janeway on the cube though is so very badly lit though. Even for late 90s, it is pretty dire.
"Our space is vast. Your passage would require too much time..."
Ah no, just give the petty human StarFleet vessel a transwarp coil! ;)
The borg dont give ... they take... you dont give the federation transwarp technology..they would replicate it and start attacking your homeworlds... thats always the borg advantage...they attack the federation with impunity knowing their powerbase and supply lines are safe in the delta quadrant where the federation cant go.
@@neddhu Oh no, the Borg are known to negotiate, especially the Queen...
Voyager has some of the coolest ideas in Trek, like Species 8472 concept or when they get trapped in that black space and need to either work together or destroy other ships to steal from, to survive
Janeway: "Whats going on, uuugh!",
Janeway: "whats going on uugh!"
Now repeat!😁😁😁😁😁😁
Hi all, things like this episode that makes Star Trek great and fantastic to watch, now i WANNA see the next episode! even though ive allready seen them to death! not quite! lol! totally miss Voyager!
Captain "War Crimes" Janeway making yet another stellar decision.
Our space is vast... (and the Equinox somehow got past us)
Why didn't the borg use transwarp conduits to get them out of their space quicker so they could get the research quicker?
+damdarch They may not have been near an opening to the conduits, the Borg may not have wanted Janeway (and eventually the rest of the Federation) to learn about the transwarp conduits, the transwarp conduits may not have been written into existence yet so how could the Borg utilize technology they didn´t have?
Transwarp conduits were introduced in TNG's "Descent, Part I," about four years prior to this episode, and the Borg assimilated Starfleet personnel in First Contact, which took place earlier the same year as this episode, so unless Starfleet classified information on the Borg's use of transwarp conduits, they should have known that Janeway and crew knew about them. The only logical explanation is that there was no nearby aperture to make use of.
@@sephservant transwarp was first introduced in star trek 3 😊. Kirks era
Simple, Janeway wanted safe passageway through their space by her own means and The Borg would not want to reveal such a huge and somewhat fragile tactical advantage.
Doesn't count, the Excelsior's transwarp drive was a failed experiment. Captain Sulu's ride had a normal warp drive installed later on
Allegory on WW2 alliance with Soviet Union against Nazism. Innacurate as Lend Lease shortened but didn't decide the War. Without Lend Lease the Soviets would have needed another year or two to win. Nice exciting episode though.
“The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the powah of the Janeway.” ~ Darth Kruge ~
She had Leverage. She had what they needed and made it so they can not get it by assimilation.
You know, of all the alien races in Star Trek, I think the Borg are one of the freakiest.
My favourite episode of Voyager. I was just so disappointed in Part 2 however, even if it did introduce Seven of Nine. I was expecting it to lead up to a climatic Borg/Species 8472/Voyager conflict, but instead we just got Chakotay giving Seven a headache...
By all intents and purposes, it would have made more sense to side with 8472.
The writers just made the Federation side with the Borg because the audience knows more of the Borg.
8472 if I recall, just didn't want others fucking with their territory, which the Borg were hostile.
I can't stand Janeway's stupidity, which starts at beginning of season 4 and continues until the end of the series.
She wasted a great opportunity to make an alliance with a powerful alien species which kicked the Borg's collective asses.
She arrived to the conclusion the fluidic space alien had to be stopped just because one of them wounded Harry Kim, making her angry to the point she tells Chakotay that maybe the fluidic space aliens deserve to be anhialated, and because Kess has a brief contact with the aliens when she heres "the weak shall perish". All it took was these two things, both of them a misunderstanding which could have been resolved had Janeway tried to contact the aliens and hear their side of the story.
But no she decides to pass judgement in an entire species based on vague information.
And let's not forget that when she helped the borg she doomed several other worlds that would be assimilated in the years that followed.
Bravo Janeway you protected the future of your crew by destroying the future of billions, perhaps even trillions of individuals.
U literally debunked your own statement lol
@@Leavemealone670 How so?
Jean Jack Beaupainx u said they could of made an alliance with species whatever they are and kill bork who killed trillions when they destroyed the borg ya good so far but then u realize they say the weak shall perish and they want all life purged tell me would u want something even stronger than the borg to come in and threaten to purge your universe? LOL I wouldn’t also how does this decision make her stupid on her part it’s the best she could have made.
@@Leavemealone670 You would be right if was that simple and we lived in a black and white world.
Species 4872 was only attacking the borg because they assumed it wasn't just the borg who wanted to destroy them. They misinterpreted the borg's attack has an attack from the entire Milky Way Galaxy. From their point of view they were fighting for their survival.
Has we see in the episode of Species 4872's training ground to infiltrate Starfleet, they were training for a reconnaissance mission to determine weter or not the Federation was a threat. And they showed interest in the different alien species culture and were even open to a truce once the Voyager crew clarified why they had sided with the Borg.
All of this could have been done so a lot earlier and saved trillions of lives had Janeway attempted to a dialogue with Species 8472, rather than attack them based on extremely vague information. Which for someone who should be an expert at diplomacy shows extreme incompetence and negligence on her part.
Jean Jack Beaupainx if that happened but janeyway didn’t convince them they’d automatically destroy earth.
Seeing 8472 destroy an entire planet is awesome. I still remember seeing it for the first time... Chills. :)
My only problem is that Red Alert by default has shields up, so there was no need for her to issue the command.
Borg are like... no we need this knowledge NAO because crossing our space is too vast and will take too much time... I guess the idea of the Borg transwarp network is just a giant secret...or as we all believe... a giant convenient plot point to be retconned at the end of the series lmao
For we (Voyager) have entered Hell, & are it's chief, damned soul.
This would have made an incredible movie, it deserved that budget. I never watched the show but have watched this particular story line. I enjoyed how the Borg found the alien race and were immediately overwhelmed by their organic technology. It’s literally liked they poked a killer be hive and their very existence is now threatened because of it.
Seriously this episode really showed what an amazing show Voyager could have been.
My only quibble with this amazing scene is that the Borg states it would take too much time to transport them past their territory. And yet all they had to do was pulled Voyager inside their docking area - since we know the sphere ship cubes have are around the same size as Voyager - then transwarp out their territory. After that, they let Voyager go and then Janeway drops a probe with the information and they go on their way.
In the end the federation and species 8472 made peace with each other so this whole effort was in vain. Janeway should have let species 8472 destroy the borg
Pretty much my favorite episode of the series… An enemy so great the borg needed help
Species 8472 only retaliated the battle the Borg started.
Voyager didn't know until part 2
That doesn't matter.
The Borg never denies that they will assimilate them, they simply state the fact that for Janeway and her crew to live (presumably upon assimilation) requires they hand them the data. I like the consistency in that I also wouldn't expect a computer to lie or get emotional even with the threat of annihilation.
Janeway on her own inside a Borg cube discussing a possible alliance gives me the creeps - she is one and they are many - that's why i am not a start ship captain
gotta love the cliff hanger so you will tune in next time.. borg towing the voyager away while a planet was just obliterated.. wowa.
Wow! Borg got Moped ...clean-up on isle 9.😹
Plot hole... A cube could have agreed to take voyager inside and been past borg space in days! It made no sense lol still loved this storyline though
*_"We are the USA Government, lower your defences and prepared to be assimilated. We will add your cultural and technological likeness to service ours - resistance is futile"_*
"Why do you resist? We only wish to increase the quality of life." ./launch_freedom_bombs
@@tertiary7 "we only wish your o... I mean to bring democracy in your country. 'Murica!"
One of the best season-ending cliff-hangers of the Voyager series.
Also one of the saddest because it marks the end of Kes.