I am delighted to see this topic, Dr. Kwasniewski. I go to daily mass (novus ordo, because that’s all we have at my parish) and get something out of it, in addition to the Eucharist of course, because the group of people at daily mass is generally reverent. However, Sunday novus ordo mass is a party atmosphere. I find it very difficult to force myself to go. My husband and I are both 70. We are planning to move soon to a city where there is the TLM. In the meanwhile, Sunday mass is tough for me.
Thank you, Dr. Kwasniewski. You have further strengthened what Bishop Schneider advised regarding the Sunday obligation. I live in a Pacific island and the nearest TLM is 3,000 miles one way over ocean. I have had it with the NOM with the lay women lectors, female acolytes, extraordinary ministers of the Holy Eucharist, the protestant hymns and music, the irreverence that people do before, during and after mass, and the priests "performing" especially in homilies (dad jokes, standup comedies and for instance there was no supernatural multiplication of the bread and fish but a "miracle of sharing"). I might be moving out soon and relocate to where there is a very accessible TLM. God bless.
All of the like-minded people in your area need to get together and talk to you your Bishop. Even if that means camping out in front of his office until he agrees to talk with you.
@KM: Also, Fr. Hewko, SSPX-MC, has daily TLM on his channel on UA-cam. You'd have to do a spiritual Communion. He talks about that in his sermons, occasionally. He is very strict and tradional. I don't understand what exactly the problem was concerning the "Marion Corps" sort of branching off from the SSPX, but he is tradional.
@@KMF3This is my thought: every practicing Catholic should be camping out (more or less) at the Bishop’s chancery until there can be a proper solution to our problem with what is taking place in our church in regards with the new Mass. I don’t believe we can just throw up our hands and not attend the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Every Catholic must put the work and time in until changes are made.
Thanks for clarifying this issue. I am one stuck without a car at the moment and the 3+ mile walk is quite a dangerous one. My priest visits. I'm disabled so talk to God all day long most days anyway so He knows my situation.
This is the second speech I have heard from Dr. K. In both of them I am impressed by the perfect selection of words and phrases. Thank you, Dr. K, for composing these talks
Thank you for sharing this talk, Dr. Kwasniewski. I thought it was a an excellent and convincing talk. I shared it with a men’s group I’m in, asking for thoughts, and some objections were brought forward. I wanted to bring up what I thought was the strongest objection. If there’s doubt about whether something is sinful, then one should refrain from doing it. One cannot act on a doubtful conscience. If you’re in doubt about whether a certain action is chaste, you shouldn’t do it. If you’re in doubt about whether it’s sinful to go to a Novus Ordo Mass (even if it would be the only way to fulfill your Sunday obligation), then you shouldn’t go. I think that the principle is correct and applied correctly in these two cases, but the objection tries to apply that principle to not attending Mass: If you’re in doubt about whether it’s sinful to skip Mass when a Novus Ordo is the only option, then you shouldn’t skip. Does the principle apply to all of these cases in the same way? To me there’s something different about the last case, but I can’t put my finger on it.
Thanks for your kind words and for this question. Every judgment of conscience requires a knowledge of the particulars at hand. That is why I was careful to say that much depends on what one knows to be the case -- both with an available Novus Ordo, and with the Novus Ordo as such. When I was very ignorant of liturgy, I wasn't even aware of the abuses, illegalities, sacrileges, etc. that were taking place in front of my very eyes. Now I do know, and therefore I would not be able to go to certain Masses that, decades ago, I attended regularly. Do you see what I mean? This is how it is for the moral life in general: people are not born well-formed, they must become well-formed. In the best-case scenario, we grow in our moral knowledge and in vritue, and we avoid sin more and more as our conscience becomes more sensitive (but not scrupulous - that's something else!). I think it is hard to maintain, absolutely, that it is sinful to attend the Novus Ordo. Which is why I never said that in the lecture. Nevertheless, I think it is very hard for the Novus Ordo to be done reverently; it has many defects baked into it. Indeed, it is a perplexing thing, and puts one in a bind, which is why I also said one should avoid being in a place where there is only the Novus Ordo available.
This is so very timely for me to hear, especially after attending NO mass on Pentecost Sunday where the priest sang parts of Alicia Keys’ “Girl on Fire” during his homily to relate it to the Holy Spirit.
I was stingy about buying the book or paying for the substack because I wanted to know more only about this 1 topic. Thank you for your generosity Dr., I will put this knowledge to good use & share with friends!
For whatever a recommendation from a random Catholic on the internet is worth, Bound By Truth is an excellent book and worth buying if it’s in the budget! God Bless!
"Bound by Truth" has, as one of its chapters, a version of the text that I gave as this lecture. It's not identical but there's a good deal of overlap. www.amazon.com/Bound-Truth-Authority-Obedience-Tradition/dp/1621389626/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= The text began its life as a post on my Substack, Tradition & Sanity, which you might enjoy: traditionsanity.substack.com/
Going to Mass is both obligatory under normal circumstances and very important. However there is much more to being a Christian than just going to Mass. In a lot of ways we are way too hung up on it right now. A couple of generations of Catholics in the 20th century grew up thinking that all they had to do be a Catholic is just show up for an hour on Sunday morning so the Catholic identity got way too wrapped up in 'going to Mass'. That is probably one of the reasons why there was such a move on to make it supposedly more 'pleasing to the people'. I am going to make an educated guess that in centuries gone by there were probably monks in the deserts of Upper Egypt who did not hear the Divine Liturgy every Sunday, maybe only a few times a year, but who lived infinitely more Christian lives than people who just show up every week just to meet their obligation
When I was pregnant with my third child my priest told me that I was not bound to Sunday obligation during pregnancy and for the first year after the baby is born. I am so thankful to him for that because a mother is already doing a holy work and it is burdensome to the family. Kind of like the rules of the Pharisees.
I can tell you, the NO Mass is what makes me actually question the "canonization" of Paul VI. See my chapter in this anthology: www.amazon.com/Are-Canonizations-Infallible-Revisiting-Disputed/dp/1989905641
I have seldom missed Mass even on vacation. Girl Scout camp was a different story but I had responsibilities. I had a mental fart that needed me to go to counseling to get me back to Mass, I think I can call that sick, it didn't last very long.
Thank you thank you thank you for talking about particles of Our Lord being trampled on. I can't get anybody to listen to me about this. Not even tlm priests
We have a Latin Mass in the area where the Chapel hold only about 1 quarter or less of the people attending. Most of them watch the Mass on the monitor. If I find the English Mass had been tore more appart or our priest turns into a clown I could find myself with no ability to go to Sunday Mass.
I was told by a SSPX TLM Priest that if we don’t have a TLM nearby that we can watch it online on UA-cam, attend another valid rite, pray the whole entire Holy Rosary instead of attending the N.O. Also if it’s 2hrs away or more that we are not obliged to attend for travel reasons like you mentioned in this video.
Dr. K, I wish I could give this 1000 thumbs up. I’ve been praying and feel such anguish the Sundays my large family doesn’t drive a considerable distance to the TLM and just try to do our best to sanctify the day at home. Your talk was what I needed at just the right time. Dr. K, do we owe others an explanation of why we don’t attend the local NO on a Sunday we don’t attend the TLM? I don’t want to cause scandal, but it’s also none of their business either. Specifically with family members who see no way around the precept of the Church compelling us to go to Mass. Thoughts?
All of my thoughts on this topic are in the lecture. It should be clear that I am definitely not saying that Catholics can remain for any long period in a situation where they are not able to fulfill their Sunday obligation if there is any way they could move to a place where this will be possible. For a short time it could be tolerated but it's not a long-term solution.
I agree wholeheartedly. If your church does not permit infant communion or has separated the 3 initiation sacraments but up to 17 years, you have a duty to become Eastern Orthodox
Those are not RC traditions but can be found without leaving the Catholic Church through its Eastern rites which provide those same threefold sacraments to newborns.
That's a laughable exaggeration. For the Orthodox, everything is dogma, nothing is custom, and no reason can ever be given for anything Western - it's always automatically wrong.
It seems like all of those reasons that were enumerated at the beginning could apply to almost anything and cause people to rationalize not ever going to Mass 😢
@@DrKwasniewskiI definitely do not think that you are trying to say that. So maybe you need to do another video to kind of help explain it to people that think that is what you might be saying. It does seem in the comments that people would misunderstand that.
I grew up as a Catholic, attending Catholic schools from 1959 to 1971. Most of those years we had what you now call the TLM. I never, ever heard about these myriad reasons for missing Mass. if you were very ill, of course. If you were forced to work, yes. But you were expected to remedy any situation that interfered. Vacation? Nope. Inadequate clothing? Nope. Causing trouble with your husband? Nope- time to bring in the priest if that were the case. As an aside that’s not relevant, very few if any of us wore mantillas. Rather, we wore hats, and some women wore small round lacy things- “ chapel veils” which they pinned to their hair. We as Catholic School students were forbidden by the nuns to wear those. We had to have a proper hat.
Yes. Head coverings were required, not veils per se. Regarding Catholic schools: naturally they would emphasize a simple understanding of obligation for children, you can't get into complicated scenarios with them. But adults need a better compass for navigating the difficult situations that arise.
Why are you suggesting that people not attend Novus Ordo if there’s only Novus Ordo? Why are you leading others to commit mortal sin by missing masses? Isn’t that leading others to perdition? You shouldn’t lead others away from the Eucharist by not attending Novus Ordo if there’s only Novus Ordo that is in existence. Receiving the Body Of Christ is more important than the type of mass attended. Please stop leading others to perdition. Please don’t advise others to commit mortal sin. Ask for your followers to pray for your conversion instead
If you actually listened closely to the lecture, you would not offer this distorted summary of it (which probably owes more to Michael Lofton than to anything I said). You are in the grip of the "black and white" notion I mention at the start, where one "must go no matter what." This is contrary to the general views of all moral theologians. More to the point, you have bought into the idea that only the laity have duties, and their duties are absolute. However, the pastors of the Church also have a duty, a solemn obligation, to provide a valid, licit, fitting, and authentic Mass in the rite of the faithful. The duties of pastors are, in fact, more grave than those of the laity, because the former are in a position to do something about it, whereas the latter are at their mercy. Finally, it is perfectly clear that I urge people not to take their obligations lightly and to find a way to fulfill their Mass obligation even if it means moving to another city or state.
The last Gospel is not part of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. it is an explanation to the pagans (facing North while reading) who we are worshiping for their understanding.
I'm not sure where you got that idea. The Last Gospel was originally added as a devotional thanksgiving for the priest and was eventually incorporated into the rite by Pius V.
I attended an Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy where, afterwards, a devotional 40 days prayer was sung in memory of the deceased. I had a dinner party I was hosting later that afternoon. I did not attend Mass that Sunday. Please advise.
As I said in the talk, I would not give personal advice unless I knew the full situation in detail. However, it seems to me that hosting a party would not, in itself, be a serious enough competing obligation to release one from the obligatio of attending Mass. Canon law currently defines the obligation as participating in any Catholic rite. An Orthodox rite, although sacramentally valid, is not a Catholic rite.
I have a specific question. If I go camping in the middle of nowhere where there's no possibility of me getting to Mass on Sunday, and trust me most of the time I will drive 2 hours away from my campsite to get to a mass on Sunday while I'm camping, do I have to get a dispensation from my priest before I go on that camping trip?
I totally disagree with this answer. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is “becoming” an integral part of our Lord’s life, death, and resurrection. Choosing to isolate yourself from being at the foot of the cross is antithetical to calling yourself a Christian. A good and holy priest would make this clearer to you if you could ask one. There are good reasons why you could not be at the foot of the cross but if you choose earthly pleasures over an obligation you cannot be dispensed from your obligation. Plan your excursions around Christ not your self.
Normally one should plan all excursions with the possibility of getting to Mass on a day of obligation. Thus, one should begin a camping trip on a Sunday afternoon perhaps, or end it on a Saturday, so that the Sunday Mass is reachable. On the other hand, all of the classic moralists say that a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to visit somewhere special could in fact be an excuse. It is not always wrong to take a job or a trip that requires a single or a temporary missing of Mass.
@@jonwood431 And what about all those eremites that went to the deserts and missed most of the masses in their lifes? We venerate them as saints, so, what should we think about that?
In very grave error, you are subtly turning disobedience into a virtue. Seeding doubt and promoting dissent is always the wrong path. You truly have many wonderful talents to give to the whole Church, with your knowledge of beautiful art, church architecture, books, music, Gregorian Chant, liturgy, etc. Help build the entire Body of Christ with your talents. Help your bishop too, who frequently speaks of bringing more beauty and reverence into the Mass. Your talents are needed to expand beauty and reverence where it is lacking. It will be tough work for sure.
It's easy to say that but harder to prove it. If you think that I am not collaborating with good bishops and clergy, you would be mistaken. In any case, as I have said in many ways, obedience to the disobedient is itself disobedience, and God will not judge kindly those who could have known better or should have resisted, and did not.
@DrKwasniewski , thanks for taking the time to read and respond to these comments! I'm curious, what would you say about St. Padre Pio, who had his faculties to hear confession taken away (among other things) - for no good reason - but chose to humbly submit to it?
Who do you think you are, Dr. Kwasniewski, to advise Catholics to skip their Sunday Mass obligation? I don't care what number of random priests you can quote that say under certain circumstances, Catholics can skip their Sunday obligation. All of the examples they gave (e.g., illness, required work) are not equivalent to skipping a Mass--Novus Ordo Mass or otherwise--because it offends the faithful. Would you similarly advise a faithful Catholic who regularly attends the Novus Ordo Mass that they could skip their Sunday obligation if the only Mass available to him was being said by a SSPX priest because it would offend his sensibilities? If not, then you might want to reconsider making yourself the final authority on this.
If you actually listened closely to the lecture, you would not offer this distorted summary of it. You are precisely in the grip of the "black and white" notion I mention at the start, where one "must go no matter what." This is contrary to the general views of all moral theologians. More to the point, you have bought into the idea that only the laity have duties, and their duties are absolute. However, the pastors of the Church also have a duty, a solemn obligation, to provide a valid, licit, fitting, and authentic Mass in the rite of the faithful. The duties of pastors are, in fact, more grave than those of the laity, because the former are in a position to do something about it, whereas the latter are at their mercy. Finally, it is perfectly clear that I urge people not to take their obligations lightly and to find a way to fulfill their Mass obligation even if it means moving to another city or state.
This lecture was very helpful to me as I'm stuck with no car and church is not only more than 3 miles but a dangerous 3 and I have obligations at home plus my own disabilities going on. I appreciate him explaining this issue in full detail.
Or how about Protestant architecture or music that teaches Protestantism? Immodest dress? Irreverent behavior? Knowing most present statistically are in heresy? Worldly sermons? Aside from the problem of the Canon and Offertory or rupture from tradition. I therefore fail to see practically any case that would obligate attending. The traditional style reverent NO, where modesty and reverence are the norm is so rare it is practically non existent, so I fail to see how any Catholic must give any substantial consideration about the obligation to attend. There are so many reasons not to attend. Even heterodox sermons, psychologically or spiritually abusive priests or deacons, obviously unstable practices, etc. The Novus Ordo split the Latin Church into not only practically two rites, but two Latin churches. The traditional Latin rite church vs the New rite Latin church, which is practically in a state of material heresy and schism. The traditional movement has many problems, because of the Crisis in the Church, but it represents the true Church.
Luke 22:32: “I have prayed for thee (Peter), that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.” It is Jesus who promises never-failing faith to Peter and his successors, including Francis. Cardinal Ratzinger, in Donum Veritatis (instructions to theologians), from Article 17: “…magisterial decisions in matters of discipline, even if they are not guaranteed by the charism of infallibility, are not without divine assistance and call for the adherence of the faithful.” (approved by JPII, May 24, 1990) Some who call themselves theologians in the Church simply refuse to believe Jesus’s promise in Luke 22:32, and they reject the instructions in Donum Veritatis - as written by a future Pope and approved by a future Saint. As a result, in grave error they obstinately promote disobedience to the Magisterium and the teaching authority of the Church. Obedience is tough work. We would rather be in charge of the operation.
Thanks. I see you are a hyperpapapalist. We've seen the rotten fruits of that approach well enough to stay far away from it. I accept Luke 22:32. But I don't read it in the narrow and contestable way you do.
I'm glad to be in good company, since Cardinal Ratzinger and JPII clearly were both hyperpapalists to have written and signed that "matters of discipline... are not without divine assistance and call for the adherence of the faithful."
55:26 I fail to see how this is different from any given liberal moral theologian arguing for the primacy of conscience in order to skirt rules he doesn’t like. One can offer valid criticisms of the new liturgy, but to say that one is not bound by the Sunday Obligation if no Latin Mass parishes can be found would be an example of an appeal to a malformed conscience. The Church has been very clear regarding the necessity of attending some liturgy on Sundays and Holy Days, regardless of its quality. It is still the One Sacrifice of Christ on Calvary in any liturgy if the priest has valid orders, and to not be able to see that with the eyes of faith, even in spite of many potential distractions, could point to a certain lack of faith in the Holy Spirit’s perpetual presence in the Church.
If one goes to a sacrilegious mass, where people can easily lead you into sin, and that is your option, then it would be worse to go than to not go because you are at risk of sinning greatly. That makes it a profanation of the sacrifice, which is a bad thing. Even though the Eucharist is there, it won’t bring benefit because one isn’t disposed to receive the graces if they are actively sinning.
@@kevingoodsirjr3218 well, for example, at one of the masses around me, many of the women dress like prostitutes, and can easily draw one who is weak into lustful thoughts. That not only makes one sin in that way, but distracts from the sacrifice. Further, the risk of sacrilege is great, and that is objectively evil. So if you approach and step on the body of Christ, you have been led into that. It is runs the risk of teaching heresy, as they sing Protestant songs, some of them have Protestant theology. It can lead one into heresy, therefore. Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. If one, in worship, prays Protestant prayers (as worship songs are), one can be led into believing Protestant errors. Those are just some examples.
@@kevingoodsirjr3218I'll give you another example. Years ago I went to a Novus ordo Mass for Easter. At that mass instead of reading readings from the Bible they read made up poems about the Earth and sky and bunny rabbits. I kid you not. It was at a parish that I did not normally go to and I never went back to that parish while that priest was still the pastor. That was clearly heresy fortunately I did not have any children with me. But I can't imagine going to that parish every Sunday. If that was my only choice I would have to not go. Fortunately for most of us that's not our only choice. But I will also echo what another commenter said. If you go up to receive communion and a paten is not being used then particles of Our Lord are falling on the floor to which you are then stepping on if you go up. That is a sacrilege if you know that it's happening and you do it anyway.
I agree with you for the most part. I think things need to be very very serious in order to not go to any mass that you might be able to get to. Everyone's situation is a little bit different but I can't imagine very many situations other than things outside of my control like being sick or my car breaking down as excuses for me to not go to Mass. I even thought about the whole pandemic thing happening again and this time I do not think that I would watch it on TV I think I would go to the building that the tlm mass is being said and kneel outside the door of the parish as the mass is going on. And when the pandemic was going on I only watched Mass on TV twice maybe three times. After that I just prayed the parts of the Mass for the people in my Missal.
Would that it were so simple. What if the husband says, "We're going to the Novus Ordo," but the wife knows well that she should not, and should go to the TLM instead - should she obey? Most of the time spouses have to work these things out between themselves. After all, it is Church teaching that in the fulfillment of one's religious duties one is not wholly subject to any human authority.
It does seem like there were a lot of pretty lame reasons for not going to mass. That I would imagine a teenager rationalizing why he or she's not going to go by using these excuses.
I'm afraid you don't know how theology works. All of the theologians I cited were learned, approved, and regularly consulted. Their books carry nihil obstats and imprimaturs. There is nothing "lax" about them, and, moreover, you will find that nearly all moralists argue the same as they do, and have so argued for centuries. As I said at the beginning of the talk, uneducated Catholics often think of the Mass obligation in black and white terms. They are welcome to think that, and in some cases it is perhaps best that they be mistaken, as it is better to err on the side of fulfilling a positive commandment than to err on the side of leaving it unfulfilled without good cause. But the entire purpose of this lecture is to show that it is not a black and white matter. I made sufficiently clear the difference between Church teaching and my own opinions.
@@DrKwasniewski Nihil obstats and imprimaturs aren't infallible. And it is just false that what you are repeating is perennial. I don't think St. Alphonsus would cheer on people missing Mass to fly off on an exotic holiday. The fact that the 20th Century moralists you cited considered that a 'grave' cause says more about them and their idiocy. They may be 'learned' but they are idiots. Manifestly. Clearly that is not a grave cause. And only a grave cause can dispense from a grave commandment, obviously.
It depends on the Mass- was the Mass created by a Freemason and approved by Protestants about 50 years ago, or the one created by Jesus and followed by the faithful for almost 2000 years since its inception ?
If that's what you got out of this talk, I would recommend listening to it a second time. For it is not possible to derive that conclusion from what I said.
I am delighted to see this topic, Dr. Kwasniewski. I go to daily mass (novus ordo, because that’s all we have at my parish) and get something out of it, in addition to the Eucharist of course, because the group of people at daily mass is generally reverent. However, Sunday novus ordo mass is a party atmosphere. I find it very difficult to force myself to go.
My husband and I are both 70. We are planning to move soon to a city where there is the TLM. In the meanwhile, Sunday mass is tough for me.
We found that too. We also would like to move closer to a TLM but haven't been able to sell our property. Perhaps God has a different plan for us.
Don't give up!
Thank you, Dr. Kwasniewski. You have further strengthened what Bishop Schneider advised regarding the Sunday obligation. I live in a Pacific island and the nearest TLM is 3,000 miles one way over ocean. I have had it with the NOM with the lay women lectors, female acolytes, extraordinary ministers of the Holy Eucharist, the protestant hymns and music, the irreverence that people do before, during and after mass, and the priests "performing" especially in homilies (dad jokes, standup comedies and for instance there was no supernatural multiplication of the bread and fish but a "miracle of sharing"). I might be moving out soon and relocate to where there is a very accessible TLM. God bless.
All of the like-minded people in your area need to get together and talk to you your Bishop. Even if that means camping out in front of his office until he agrees to talk with you.
@KM:
Also, Fr. Hewko, SSPX-MC, has daily TLM on his channel on UA-cam. You'd have to do a spiritual Communion. He talks about that in his sermons, occasionally. He is very strict and tradional. I don't understand what exactly the problem was concerning the "Marion Corps" sort of branching off from the SSPX, but he is tradional.
@@KMF3This is my thought: every practicing Catholic should be camping out (more or less) at the Bishop’s chancery until there can be a proper solution to our problem with what is taking place in our church in regards with the new Mass. I don’t believe we can just throw up our hands and not attend the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Every Catholic must put the work and time in until changes are made.
Thanks for clarifying this issue. I am one stuck without a car at the moment and the 3+ mile walk is quite a dangerous one. My priest visits. I'm disabled so talk to God all day long most days anyway so He knows my situation.
This is the second speech I have heard from Dr. K. In both of them I am impressed by the perfect selection of words and phrases. Thank you, Dr. K, for composing these talks
Thanks for your kind words!
Thank you for sharing this talk, Dr. Kwasniewski. I thought it was a an excellent and convincing talk. I shared it with a men’s group I’m in, asking for thoughts, and some objections were brought forward. I wanted to bring up what I thought was the strongest objection.
If there’s doubt about whether something is sinful, then one should refrain from doing it. One cannot act on a doubtful conscience.
If you’re in doubt about whether a certain action is chaste, you shouldn’t do it.
If you’re in doubt about whether it’s sinful to go to a Novus Ordo Mass (even if it would be the only way to fulfill your Sunday obligation), then you shouldn’t go.
I think that the principle is correct and applied correctly in these two cases, but the objection tries to apply that principle to not attending Mass: If you’re in doubt about whether it’s sinful to skip Mass when a Novus Ordo is the only option, then you shouldn’t skip.
Does the principle apply to all of these cases in the same way? To me there’s something different about the last case, but I can’t put my finger on it.
Thanks for your kind words and for this question.
Every judgment of conscience requires a knowledge of the particulars at hand. That is why I was careful to say that much depends on what one knows to be the case -- both with an available Novus Ordo, and with the Novus Ordo as such. When I was very ignorant of liturgy, I wasn't even aware of the abuses, illegalities, sacrileges, etc. that were taking place in front of my very eyes. Now I do know, and therefore I would not be able to go to certain Masses that, decades ago, I attended regularly. Do you see what I mean?
This is how it is for the moral life in general: people are not born well-formed, they must become well-formed. In the best-case scenario, we grow in our moral knowledge and in vritue, and we avoid sin more and more as our conscience becomes more sensitive (but not scrupulous - that's something else!).
I think it is hard to maintain, absolutely, that it is sinful to attend the Novus Ordo. Which is why I never said that in the lecture. Nevertheless, I think it is very hard for the Novus Ordo to be done reverently; it has many defects baked into it. Indeed, it is a perplexing thing, and puts one in a bind, which is why I also said one should avoid being in a place where there is only the Novus Ordo available.
This is so very timely for me to hear, especially after attending NO mass on Pentecost Sunday where the priest sang parts of Alicia Keys’ “Girl on Fire” during his homily to relate it to the Holy Spirit.
That is absolutely disgusting. Such a priest should be disciplined.
I was stingy about buying the book or paying for the substack because I wanted to know more only about this 1 topic. Thank you for your generosity Dr., I will put this knowledge to good use & share with friends!
What is the title of the book?
For whatever a recommendation from a random Catholic on the internet is worth, Bound By Truth is an excellent book and worth buying if it’s in the budget! God Bless!
"Bound by Truth" has, as one of its chapters, a version of the text that I gave as this lecture. It's not identical but there's a good deal of overlap.
www.amazon.com/Bound-Truth-Authority-Obedience-Tradition/dp/1621389626/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
The text began its life as a post on my Substack, Tradition & Sanity, which you might enjoy:
traditionsanity.substack.com/
@@whoislikegod9880 ...I bought the Kindle.
Going to Mass is both obligatory under normal circumstances and very important. However there is much more to being a Christian than just going to Mass. In a lot of ways we are way too hung up on it right now. A couple of generations of Catholics in the 20th century grew up thinking that all they had to do be a Catholic is just show up for an hour on Sunday morning so the Catholic identity got way too wrapped up in 'going to Mass'. That is probably one of the reasons why there was such a move on to make it supposedly more 'pleasing to the people'. I am going to make an educated guess that in centuries gone by there were probably monks in the deserts of Upper Egypt who did not hear the Divine Liturgy every Sunday, maybe only a few times a year, but who lived infinitely more Christian lives than people who just show up every week just to meet their obligation
Thank you Mr. Kwasniewski so much for this video. I really needed this clarity. God Bless 🙏
You are very welcome
Dr Peter K is a saintly man. I will say it again, a saintly man.
When I was pregnant with my third child my priest told me that I was not bound to Sunday obligation during pregnancy and for the first year after the baby is born. I am so thankful to him for that because a mother is already doing a holy work and it is burdensome to the family. Kind of like the rules of the Pharisees.
Thank you. Ive been to NO Masses that made me actually question my fsith.
I can tell you, the NO Mass is what makes me actually question the "canonization" of Paul VI. See my chapter in this anthology:
www.amazon.com/Are-Canonizations-Infallible-Revisiting-Disputed/dp/1989905641
I have seldom missed Mass even on vacation. Girl Scout camp was a different story but I had responsibilities. I had a mental fart that needed me to go to counseling to get me back to Mass, I think I can call that sick, it didn't last very long.
Thank you thank you thank you for talking about particles of Our Lord being trampled on. I can't get anybody to listen to me about this. Not even tlm priests
Our ICRSS priests are meticulous about this. So grateful.
@@sueadauctus3306 yes the fssp priests are as well. But no one seems to think it is a problem at NO Mass.
Another great talk, greetings from Poland.
Glad you enjoyed it!
We have a Latin Mass in the area where the Chapel hold only about 1 quarter or less of the people attending. Most of them watch the Mass on the monitor. If I find the English Mass had been tore more appart or our priest turns into a clown I could find myself with no ability to go to Sunday Mass.
I was told by a SSPX TLM Priest that if we don’t have a TLM nearby that we can watch it online on UA-cam, attend another valid rite, pray the whole entire Holy Rosary instead of attending the N.O. Also if it’s 2hrs away or more that we are not obliged to attend for travel reasons like you mentioned in this video.
Well, you answered your question my dear friend! God bless you!
Dr. K, I wish I could give this 1000 thumbs up. I’ve been praying and feel such anguish the Sundays my large family doesn’t drive a considerable distance to the TLM and just try to do our best to sanctify the day at home. Your talk was what I needed at just the right time. Dr. K, do we owe others an explanation of why we don’t attend the local NO on a Sunday we don’t attend the TLM? I don’t want to cause scandal, but it’s also none of their business either. Specifically with family members who see no way around the precept of the Church compelling us to go to Mass. Thoughts?
All of my thoughts on this topic are in the lecture. It should be clear that I am definitely not saying that Catholics can remain for any long period in a situation where they are not able to fulfill their Sunday obligation if there is any way they could move to a place where this will be possible. For a short time it could be tolerated but it's not a long-term solution.
Why are you asking Peter this question?
Ask your bishop about your Sunday obligation - he is the authority in your diocese.
I agree wholeheartedly. If your church does not permit infant communion or has separated the 3 initiation sacraments but up to 17 years, you have a duty to become Eastern Orthodox
Those are not RC traditions but can be found without leaving the Catholic Church through its Eastern rites which provide those same threefold sacraments to newborns.
That's a laughable exaggeration. For the Orthodox, everything is dogma, nothing is custom, and no reason can ever be given for anything Western - it's always automatically wrong.
It seems like all of those reasons that were enumerated at the beginning could apply to almost anything and cause people to rationalize not ever going to Mass 😢
Not true, and my words could never be construed to mean that.
@@DrKwasniewskiI definitely do not think that you are trying to say that. So maybe you need to do another video to kind of help explain it to people that think that is what you might be saying. It does seem in the comments that people would misunderstand that.
Obviously these reasons can be invalidated if they are used as excuses, just like anything else, intent can either make or break it.
I grew up as a Catholic, attending Catholic schools from 1959 to 1971. Most of those years we had what you now call the TLM. I never, ever heard about these myriad reasons for missing Mass. if you were very ill, of course. If you were forced to work, yes. But you were expected to remedy any situation that interfered. Vacation? Nope. Inadequate clothing? Nope. Causing trouble with your husband? Nope- time to bring in the priest if that were the case.
As an aside that’s not relevant, very few if any of us wore mantillas. Rather, we wore hats, and some women wore small round lacy things- “ chapel veils” which they pinned to their hair. We as Catholic School students were forbidden by the nuns to wear those. We had to have a proper hat.
Yes. Head coverings were required, not veils per se.
Regarding Catholic schools: naturally they would emphasize a simple understanding of obligation for children, you can't get into complicated scenarios with them. But adults need a better compass for navigating the difficult situations that arise.
Why are you suggesting that people not attend Novus Ordo if there’s only Novus Ordo? Why are you leading others to commit mortal sin by missing masses? Isn’t that leading others to perdition? You shouldn’t lead others away from the Eucharist by not attending Novus Ordo if there’s only Novus Ordo that is in existence. Receiving the Body Of Christ is more important than the type of mass attended.
Please stop leading others to perdition. Please don’t advise others to commit mortal sin.
Ask for your followers to pray for your conversion instead
If you actually listened closely to the lecture, you would not offer this distorted summary of it (which probably owes more to Michael Lofton than to anything I said).
You are in the grip of the "black and white" notion I mention at the start, where one "must go no matter what." This is contrary to the general views of all moral theologians. More to the point, you have bought into the idea that only the laity have duties, and their duties are absolute. However, the pastors of the Church also have a duty, a solemn obligation, to provide a valid, licit, fitting, and authentic Mass in the rite of the faithful. The duties of pastors are, in fact, more grave than those of the laity, because the former are in a position to do something about it, whereas the latter are at their mercy.
Finally, it is perfectly clear that I urge people not to take their obligations lightly and to find a way to fulfill their Mass obligation even if it means moving to another city or state.
The last Gospel is not part of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. it is an explanation to the pagans (facing North while reading) who we are worshiping for their understanding.
I'm not sure where you got that idea. The Last Gospel was originally added as a devotional thanksgiving for the priest and was eventually incorporated into the rite by Pius V.
@@DrKwasniewski
Thank you. I never thought about that.
I attended an Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy where, afterwards, a devotional 40 days prayer was sung in memory of the deceased. I had a dinner party I was hosting later that afternoon. I did not attend Mass that Sunday. Please advise.
My understanding is that they do have valid holy orders and therefore a valid liturgy and Eucharist.
As I said in the talk, I would not give personal advice unless I knew the full situation in detail. However, it seems to me that hosting a party would not, in itself, be a serious enough competing obligation to release one from the obligatio of attending Mass. Canon law currently defines the obligation as participating in any Catholic rite. An Orthodox rite, although sacramentally valid, is not a Catholic rite.
@@DrKwasniewski
I’m off to confession. Thanks. Great presentation!
I have a specific question. If I go camping in the middle of nowhere where there's no possibility of me getting to Mass on Sunday, and trust me most of the time I will drive 2 hours away from my campsite to get to a mass on Sunday while I'm camping, do I have to get a dispensation from my priest before I go on that camping trip?
No dispensation needed (and I never have heard of anyone seeking or getting such a dispensation).
I totally disagree with this answer. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is “becoming” an integral part of our Lord’s life, death, and resurrection. Choosing to isolate yourself from being at the foot of the cross is antithetical to calling yourself a Christian. A good and holy priest would make this clearer to you if you could ask one. There are good reasons why you could not be at the foot of the cross but if you choose earthly pleasures over an obligation you cannot be dispensed from your obligation. Plan your excursions around Christ not your self.
Normally one should plan all excursions with the possibility of getting to Mass on a day of obligation. Thus, one should begin a camping trip on a Sunday afternoon perhaps, or end it on a Saturday, so that the Sunday Mass is reachable. On the other hand, all of the classic moralists say that a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to visit somewhere special could in fact be an excuse. It is not always wrong to take a job or a trip that requires a single or a temporary missing of Mass.
@@DrKwasniewski thank you for your answer. Very helpful.
@@jonwood431 And what about all those eremites that went to the deserts and missed most of the masses in their lifes? We venerate them as saints, so, what should we think about that?
In very grave error, you are subtly turning disobedience into a virtue. Seeding doubt and promoting dissent is always the wrong path.
You truly have many wonderful talents to give to the whole Church, with your knowledge of beautiful art, church architecture, books, music, Gregorian Chant, liturgy, etc. Help build the entire Body of Christ with your talents. Help your bishop too, who frequently speaks of bringing more beauty and reverence into the Mass. Your talents are needed to expand beauty and reverence where it is lacking. It will be tough work for sure.
It's easy to say that but harder to prove it. If you think that I am not collaborating with good bishops and clergy, you would be mistaken. In any case, as I have said in many ways, obedience to the disobedient is itself disobedience, and God will not judge kindly those who could have known better or should have resisted, and did not.
@DrKwasniewski , thanks for taking the time to read and respond to these comments! I'm curious, what would you say about St. Padre Pio, who had his faculties to hear confession taken away (among other things) - for no good reason - but chose to humbly submit to it?
Who do you think you are, Dr. Kwasniewski, to advise Catholics to skip their Sunday Mass obligation? I don't care what number of random priests you can quote that say under certain circumstances, Catholics can skip their Sunday obligation. All of the examples they gave (e.g., illness, required work) are not equivalent to skipping a Mass--Novus Ordo Mass or otherwise--because it offends the faithful.
Would you similarly advise a faithful Catholic who regularly attends the Novus Ordo Mass that they could skip their Sunday obligation if the only Mass available to him was being said by a SSPX priest because it would offend his sensibilities? If not, then you might want to reconsider making yourself the final authority on this.
If you actually listened closely to the lecture, you would not offer this distorted summary of it.
You are precisely in the grip of the "black and white" notion I mention at the start, where one "must go no matter what." This is contrary to the general views of all moral theologians. More to the point, you have bought into the idea that only the laity have duties, and their duties are absolute. However, the pastors of the Church also have a duty, a solemn obligation, to provide a valid, licit, fitting, and authentic Mass in the rite of the faithful. The duties of pastors are, in fact, more grave than those of the laity, because the former are in a position to do something about it, whereas the latter are at their mercy.
Finally, it is perfectly clear that I urge people not to take their obligations lightly and to find a way to fulfill their Mass obligation even if it means moving to another city or state.
This lecture was very helpful to me as I'm stuck with no car and church is not only more than 3 miles but a dangerous 3 and I have obligations at home plus my own disabilities going on. I appreciate him explaining this issue in full detail.
56:26 Wow. Up until this point i had imagined you talking to a packed football stadium!
Our large crowd of 200 was the night before. This talk was lighter in attendance. But that's why we film and put them up on UA-cam!
It seems that the audio is only playing through the speaker (earphone) on the right.
Well, I don't know why, and there's nothing I can do about it.
@@DrKwasniewski There is certenaily a possibility to replace the audio, but I can't help how to do it.
Or how about Protestant architecture or music that teaches Protestantism? Immodest dress? Irreverent behavior? Knowing most present statistically are in heresy? Worldly sermons? Aside from the problem of the Canon and Offertory or rupture from tradition. I therefore fail to see practically any case that would obligate attending. The traditional style reverent NO, where modesty and reverence are the norm is so rare it is practically non existent, so I fail to see how any Catholic must give any substantial consideration about the obligation to attend. There are so many reasons not to attend. Even heterodox sermons, psychologically or spiritually abusive priests or deacons, obviously unstable practices, etc. The Novus Ordo split the Latin Church into not only practically two rites, but two Latin churches. The traditional Latin rite church vs the New rite Latin church, which is practically in a state of material heresy and schism. The traditional movement has many problems, because of the Crisis in the Church, but it represents the true Church.
Luke 22:32: “I have prayed for thee (Peter), that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.” It is Jesus who promises never-failing faith to Peter and his successors, including Francis.
Cardinal Ratzinger, in Donum Veritatis (instructions to theologians), from Article 17: “…magisterial decisions in matters of discipline, even if they are not guaranteed by the charism of infallibility, are not without divine assistance and call for the adherence of the faithful.” (approved by JPII, May 24, 1990)
Some who call themselves theologians in the Church simply refuse to believe Jesus’s promise in Luke 22:32, and they reject the instructions in Donum Veritatis - as written by a future Pope and approved by a future Saint. As a result, in grave error they obstinately promote disobedience to the Magisterium and the teaching authority of the Church. Obedience is tough work. We would rather be in charge of the operation.
Thanks. I see you are a hyperpapapalist. We've seen the rotten fruits of that approach well enough to stay far away from it.
I accept Luke 22:32. But I don't read it in the narrow and contestable way you do.
I'm glad to be in good company, since Cardinal Ratzinger and JPII clearly were both hyperpapalists to have written and signed that "matters of discipline... are not without divine assistance and call for the adherence of the faithful."
55:26 I fail to see how this is different from any given liberal moral theologian arguing for the primacy of conscience in order to skirt rules he doesn’t like. One can offer valid criticisms of the new liturgy, but to say that one is not bound by the Sunday Obligation if no Latin Mass parishes can be found would be an example of an appeal to a malformed conscience. The Church has been very clear regarding the necessity of attending some liturgy on Sundays and Holy Days, regardless of its quality. It is still the One Sacrifice of Christ on Calvary in any liturgy if the priest has valid orders, and to not be able to see that with the eyes of faith, even in spite of many potential distractions, could point to a certain lack of faith in the Holy Spirit’s perpetual presence in the Church.
If one goes to a sacrilegious mass, where people can easily lead you into sin, and that is your option, then it would be worse to go than to not go because you are at risk of sinning greatly. That makes it a profanation of the sacrifice, which is a bad thing.
Even though the Eucharist is there, it won’t bring benefit because one isn’t disposed to receive the graces if they are actively sinning.
What sins could you possibly be in danger of being led into? I’m not sure I understand.
@@kevingoodsirjr3218 well, for example, at one of the masses around me, many of the women dress like prostitutes, and can easily draw one who is weak into lustful thoughts. That not only makes one sin in that way, but distracts from the sacrifice.
Further, the risk of sacrilege is great, and that is objectively evil. So if you approach and step on the body of Christ, you have been led into that.
It is runs the risk of teaching heresy, as they sing Protestant songs, some of them have Protestant theology. It can lead one into heresy, therefore.
Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi. If one, in worship, prays Protestant prayers (as worship songs are), one can be led into believing Protestant errors.
Those are just some examples.
@@kevingoodsirjr3218I'll give you another example. Years ago I went to a Novus ordo Mass for Easter. At that mass instead of reading readings from the Bible they read made up poems about the Earth and sky and bunny rabbits. I kid you not. It was at a parish that I did not normally go to and I never went back to that parish while that priest was still the pastor. That was clearly heresy fortunately I did not have any children with me. But I can't imagine going to that parish every Sunday. If that was my only choice I would have to not go. Fortunately for most of us that's not our only choice.
But I will also echo what another commenter said. If you go up to receive communion and a paten is not being used then particles of Our Lord are falling on the floor to which you are then stepping on if you go up. That is a sacrilege if you know that it's happening and you do it anyway.
I agree with you for the most part. I think things need to be very very serious in order to not go to any mass that you might be able to get to. Everyone's situation is a little bit different but I can't imagine very many situations other than things outside of my control like being sick or my car breaking down as excuses for me to not go to Mass. I even thought about the whole pandemic thing happening again and this time I do not think that I would watch it on TV I think I would go to the building that the tlm mass is being said and kneel outside the door of the parish as the mass is going on. And when the pandemic was going on I only watched Mass on TV twice maybe three times. After that I just prayed the parts of the Mass for the people in my Missal.
If the husband says, "We're going to the Latin Mass", the wife needs to obey.
Would that it were so simple. What if the husband says, "We're going to the Novus Ordo," but the wife knows well that she should not, and should go to the TLM instead - should she obey? Most of the time spouses have to work these things out between themselves. After all, it is Church teaching that in the fulfillment of one's religious duties one is not wholly subject to any human authority.
Giving some opinions of a few lax moralists is NOT giving Church teaching (which you as a layman have no right to be a spokesperson of orthodoxy for).
It does seem like there were a lot of pretty lame reasons for not going to mass. That I would imagine a teenager rationalizing why he or she's not going to go by using these excuses.
I'm afraid you don't know how theology works.
All of the theologians I cited were learned, approved, and regularly consulted. Their books carry nihil obstats and imprimaturs. There is nothing "lax" about them, and, moreover, you will find that nearly all moralists argue the same as they do, and have so argued for centuries.
As I said at the beginning of the talk, uneducated Catholics often think of the Mass obligation in black and white terms. They are welcome to think that, and in some cases it is perhaps best that they be mistaken, as it is better to err on the side of fulfilling a positive commandment than to err on the side of leaving it unfulfilled without good cause. But the entire purpose of this lecture is to show that it is not a black and white matter. I made sufficiently clear the difference between Church teaching and my own opinions.
@@DrKwasniewski I need to go back and listen again
@@DrKwasniewski Nihil obstats and imprimaturs aren't infallible. And it is just false that what you are repeating is perennial. I don't think St. Alphonsus would cheer on people missing Mass to fly off on an exotic holiday. The fact that the 20th Century moralists you cited considered that a 'grave' cause says more about them and their idiocy. They may be 'learned' but they are idiots. Manifestly. Clearly that is not a grave cause. And only a grave cause can dispense from a grave commandment, obviously.
Very wrong to be leading people AWAY from the Holy Mass. SHAME!!!!!
Even if it involves spiritual harm to one’s soul? I don’t think so.
It depends on the Mass- was the Mass created by a Freemason and approved by Protestants about 50 years ago, or the one created by Jesus and followed by the faithful for almost 2000 years since its inception ?
If that's what you got out of this talk, I would recommend listening to it a second time. For it is not possible to derive that conclusion from what I said.
Did you even listen to the talk? It was quite clear he was discussing the abusive or scandalous mass which is by definition not holy.
Once one goes to the TLM it's very painful to go to the NO