PENETRATION - SATURATION - COATING, Oiling Wooden Tool Handles
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- Опубліковано 11 гру 2017
- 3 Major approaches or factors in oiling wooden tool handles with drying oils, like linseed. Pentration, Saturation and coating or finish. Finishes aim to form a barrier between the environment and the wood. A combination of penetration and saturation together fills the wood forming something like a finish that is embedded deeply in the wood protecting the wood fibers directly from the intrusion of moisture by repelling water as well as filling in the spaces that water would enter into the wood. Coating is faster and cheaper, but less effective and subject to wearing away with use.
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Oh man what an amazing tangent at the end! This has been a subject on my mind increasingly lately. The amount of people that make broad, encompassing statements as though they are a fact, as though they even have the ability to know something, is really starting to rub me the wrong way. My partner does it and a couple of my friends do it frequently too. I'm starting to see this as an immediate sign someone lacks either intelligence, or at the very minimum; the strength of being to accept they don't have the answers, no one else has the answers and no one ever will. I cannot understand people using ignorance like a safety blanket, its like a completely different mindset that allows people to just order their reality in an arbitrary way so they can direct all of their focus on themselves. Crazy.
Great video; I'm glad to hear a lot of that as I also use turpentine + raw linseed oil (never seen boiled for sale in Australia anyway), though I used about 30% turps rather than 50%. I can't remember where I picked up the info to use turpentine, but I've been worrying it might be a bad idea as I've heard very few people mention it in regards to axes. I do feel better to know both yourself and the gentleman in the video have used it plenty and not had any bad results. I find it leaves a less tacky/glossy finish and feels more like wood when you thin it out with turps.
Also accidentally left my cold steel shovel ass down in my oil bucket for a couple of weeks accidentally. I was expecting that to overly expand or soften the wood, but it actually came out pretty nice - very polished built up looking finish. There is however a significant visible gradient from the end of the handle to where it connects to the shovel head clearly showing the higher and lower saturation level haha :) A little too afraid to do that with my axes!
My ideas about that realm of fact, assumption, assertion, belief, language influence, ego and people's real motivations have evolved a lot over the past 5 years or less. I'm more and more inclined to be about embracing ignorance instead of insecurely grasping at "facts" and the known. There is a great letter by Wendell Berry on something like the wisdom of ignorance that opened some doors for me in that regard. Here it is. landinstitute.org/land-report-article/toward-ignorance-based-world-view/ I have another video recorded that I might publish soon that touches on some of my evolving philosophy. I think a lot of strong assertions and words we like to use that invoke finality, like never, always, fact, proper etc. are used to bolster weak or non-existent arguments and express opinions. Or they are used to not have to make an argument that we really can't actually articulate, because it is based on belief. The more strongly and frequently they are used the more I suspect there may be some bullshit afoot. I've become inclined to think that concepts like fact and certainty and their pursuit and valuation is misguided and much more based on ego, politics, ulterior motives and the deep roots of human insecurity than on the real pursuit of understanding and genuine inquiry. In this way, science seems to operate very much like religion.
I've arrived at very similar questioning to yourself, though I'm currently still operating under the premise that belief/faith/hope is an inherent requirement of the majority of current humans. For most, the pursuance of overarching "answers" to life seems to overshadow the ability to formulate questions that lead to more questions. I always thought that the entire point of inquiry.
CS.Lewis in "the abolition of man" makes some interesting observations about the way we learn "fact", interesting enough to prompt me to quit a degree in the sciences, and start the real learning.
I've pretty much been exclusively watching your videos for a couple of days now, SO MUCH VALUE! I wanted to weigh in here because I find it interesting that someone clearly driven by similar passions and interests to myself, but with a very different life, have arrived at such similar rumination, particularly how the current scientific community seems an awful lot like an organised religion.
Thanks
@@SkillCult this url no longer works
I definitely don’t believe you.
@@SkillCult whenever someone says that "knowledge is power". I usually reply, that "ignorance is bliss".
When we strongly belief we know something firmly. We tend to become fixated and closeminded. But when we instead try to "forget what we know" and and acknowledge that there's even more that we don't know. Then we become flexible and openminded.
This is what sages practise. Trying to see/percieve something with "fresh eyes", as if seeing it for the first time.
It's interesting to note, that it is believed, that the philosopher Sokrates (who was regarded as one of the wisest men on earth), apparently was known for these two quotes.
"The only thing I know, is that I don't know anything."
And regarding knowledge, "I feel as though, as if I am standing on the beach and have barely glanced a handful of sand grains".
Came for the oil, stayed for the philosophy. Cheers
Dang 3 years and no comment first
This is why I love your channel! Deep philosophy coming from something as seemingly mundane as oil wood finishes.
We have stuff to learn from everywhere I think.
You are really articulate and informative. Great videos.
Thank you.
I've restored old military surplus rifle stocks with the 50/50 linseed oil and turpentine method. Some classic formulas add beeswax for the 3rd category of coating. I had asked in another video about your methods, so here now I find answers that you find useful. Glad to know about flax oil.
Im so glad you are making videos again, absolutely love watching a skilled craftsman talk/work
I actually have lots of mostly finished vids and some series I'm trying to finish, but things have kept me from finishing stuff I started.
Hi Steven and Thanks! Wood from living trees is still alive even after it is fashioned into something. This you can feel when using a tool with an oiled handle as opposed to some slick plastic type finish. It is why an oiled handle feels good in the hand, feeling that life as you use the tool. Tools being extensions of our hands is all the more reason to feel that life and connection. I'm sure you have felt the vibes after finding an old well used tool. One that has been well taken care of and perhaps even loved by the user. That tool or tools that become the favorites because they feel so good in the hand and creating the best work we can produce. And about athorities? I'm with you there friend. My mentor was born in 1889 and was a cabinetmaker, blacksmith, shoemaker and rug weaver. He never told me how to do things but instead asked me how I would do something. So I'd go back to my shop and do something the way I had told him I would. The next morning he would ask, where is your piece? I'd say it didn't work. He would say I know damn well it did'nt work. I'd ask him why he didn't tell me so. He'd say because you would have done it your way anyhow. But now you've learned this on your own. Now go and do it right. I learned much from this old man John Groff. But he taught me by doing through my own experiences. In this way I learned well. Before he died at 92 he told me I was better than he was, which I had trouble excepting. But he said, what kind of teacher would I have been if you haden't been better. Hopefully you will teach someone to be better than you. I know this is a bit long but it all fits in to what you are talking about in this video. In sharing your skills you are keeping skills alive and I have learned much from you through me doing. I have 3 deer hides thus and 2 in lime. Skudding is coming soon. I've grown to love this process of making leather thanks to your clear and honest sharing. Damn good humor too, not to mention guitar playing, which I'd like to hear more of. Do some pickin when you don't feel like buckin, eh? Good December Steven! Happy holly daze. DaveyJO
Good story. There is an important difference between respect and absolute deference. Tanning leather is easy to fall in love with. Especially bark tanning. It's simply amazing. I don't play a lot anymore, but I always think I should. I can't send you messages, so if you need my address, you'll have to contact me through the website or something.
"We don't need belief. We can act without it." I've been thinking along these lines for the last several years, but you put it into words in perfectly. Thanks, no I can say I believe Stephen from SkillCult. Jk lol
Yeah, don't believe me ha ha. Now I have another word that I have to try not to say in videos and people will probably call me on it too. :)
Your a very smart fella who knows how to think and articulate ideas to others. I really enjoy and value listening to you.
Very good definitions and information! Thanks again.
Always a great video I really enjoy your information
Joe
Thank you for your good advice and teaching...
Hey, thanks for all your videos.
You're welcome.
I like your videos and thinking.
thanks
When I commented on your brush burning video, I was afraid you would take it wrong about me leaving my piles for wildlife. Instead you surprised me with your response. Now I see why. Love your attitude and outlook!
Thanks, I try to be reasonable. I do go on rants once in a while, but we all need to let off the pressure sometimes ;)
Yet another video I have found of yours to be beneficial!!Thank you for sharing!! Will be watching many others.And yes,I now have linseed oil on my shopping list!!:)
Very good explanation of how and why it all works. I am as guilty as anybody else. It is easy to watch UA-cam videos and believe what creators tell you is the way to do things. Without experience it could all be bull crap. The only way to find out what works for us is to do enough of something to find out what works for each of us. It will not happen overnight. That's the thing! Good no nonsense video. Keep them that way. That's what makes this channel different.
Hey, thanks. Fortunately we can act without full understanding. It's how we got this far for the most part!
There's more experts than people out there on the internet. And amazingly too few thinkers. I think that's why I enjoy your work.
I've been playing with flax seed oil and a couple of danish and tung oils (not mixing, just which ever one I feel like using that day on that project), and in a few years I might have an opinion on what I like. In the future, if my boys ask me why one over the other, the best I could tell them will be, because that's the one I liked. They can figure out why themselves.
If we're both still alive when you figure it out, let me know! Of course I won't believe you anyway lol.
Will do. But I'm a slow learner, so you better plan on hangin in there for awhile.
Thanks for the deep dives
Your welcome :)
Great video...subscribed
You give a lot of good insight to us,,,,,,, trying new things,, that's who we are. Thanks for the video.
You're welcome.
Thanks for sharing this!
You're welcome.
I get you. Keep up the good work
i dig what you put down, my friend :) thanks for the videos :)
After watching your last video on drying oils, and others, I've gone to using just Raw Linseed/Flax Oil on all my tool handles....very pleased so far! Yeah, personal and observed experience - the best knowledge!!
Cool, seems to work well for me. Like everyone else, I was concerned it wouldn't dry. I'm not sure it every dries as hard as oil using metal driers, but it's good enough for anything I've used it for so far.
Great info Steven. I love these chalkboard videos. I use organic flax seed oil to season all my cast iron too.
do you get an actual baked on thick finish like old cast iron gets? I've not had much luck building that up on my pans, but I think it may be because I cook with almost no drying or partially drying oils.
SkillCult yes. I keep a small container of flaxseed oil in the fridge with a little sponge. After I cook with and clean the pan, I lightly coat it, heat it to smoke point and wipe all the excess oil of with a clean rag. Every single time. Amazing seasoning.
I left a message on your website too. Trying to buy your tanning book.
I'm going with my gut and I am subscribing.
Dude! Hope you’re well, missed you for a while there. Hope you’re in a good place and healthy
Thanks, it's a rough ride, but I've been getting some breaks lately.
I have been mixing my gun stock oil about the same for the rifles I build. 50/50 raw linseed and turpentine once in a while I will add walnut oil, it is thinner and darker in tone and consistency. It works and my customers like it....
I might try it. I"m not crazy about the smell. I might try orange oil. I have about 4 gallons of the stuff from an old project.
I've been using sun bleaching process, which makes for a slightly faster curing time. Also there is a Tried and True danish oil, which is pure truly boiled linseed oil, food safe. It dries a little faster too, although not as fast as the hardware store BLO. It is not cheap though.
raw linseed isn't too common any more. You might find it at some paint stores. Otherwise, yeah, flax oil that people eat is exactly the same stuff.
I found some in a farm shop that's intended for horse feed omega 3 supplement, not bad price either
Flax oil and raw linseed oil are the same thing ?
Preach on brother! I believe! Lol, honestly great video man. Great way to look and think about things and thanks for your thoughts on oiling!
Started doing this a year ago with my cutting boards and kitchen utensils. Works great, i let them dry for a few months before i use them
Thanks for the tips!
I like my cutting boards dry, but never tried this type of thing. Should be great for knife and utensile handles for sure. I should do some of mine.
I use food grade mineral oil for my cutting board and wooden kitchen knife handles. Also a very light coat on the steel now and then, especially my bush craft knives. Think Flax would work just as well. Other oils are known to turn rancid over time.
“It is just unnecessary to believe things” -Edholm I love that.
My whole world has become wrapped around the advancement of a non-belief paradigm and responsible relationship with consumption and interpretation of information. they are simple ideas, but it can be very difficult to come to embody them in everyday thinking and communications since we live in a blatantly belief oriented paradigm.
On the surface, this video seems like some useful information about oiling, but if you allow it to penetrate, you may just realize that it's saturated with knowledge!
I'm just trying to sound clever. Seriously though- your content is great. I'm moving out to the woods in a few days (after a decade-long sentence in suburbia), and your videos have me overflowing with anticipation for the new projects and discoveries that are waiting out there. The property is low in the foot of the Appalachians, in SW PA. It's private, lush, and green, with hearty ferns under a tall canopy and a trout stream at the back of the property. At the front near the driveway, at least a half dozen fruit trees are already in their prime.
It's not as though I'm 'woke' or anything- I mean, I feel mostly asleep to be honest. But there's something wholly unnatural about much of what modern life has become, and it's encouraging for me to see others who can see that-and aim to correct it-from a larger, concept-based, approach. I'm no Luddite, but I'm ready to scale back some of life's noise and complexity. It has been corrosive, and it doesn't impress anyone.
One more thing: not to put words in your mouth, but I've read some of your thoughts here and there, and I think that you're right about the trap of becoming an _ideal_ for the vicarious experience of the viewer. That must certainly perpetuate inaction. As a thinking individual, I avoid that trap wherever possible: we all too readily fall into a pattern of _following._ Perhaps this is the source of both our brilliance and our stupidity; we've only learned tool use by parroting and refining the (often accidental) behaviors of our kin, but such copy-catting is also a gullibility that makes us susceptible to exploitation. I have no intention of patronizing you with some silly shower of feigned compliment; I simply wish to give you a most sincere nod of respect, and tell you that I find genuine value in your content. And for that, thanks.
Sorry about the ramble. I do that every time I write. Or think.
Awesome comment. Don't apologize to the likes of me for long comments lol. Property sounds great. Oh for a trout stream! Those are hard to come by in these parts. Remember that fruit trees are a great foundation for grafting on new varieties to try out. I'm not a ludite either, but I think it pays to examine how well modern life is serving us and how it's not on multiple levels. We tend to think in terms of categorical acceptance or rejection. Also, with something like labor or anything involving discomfort, our thinking tends to be one dimensional. Labor pays dividends in multiple ways and if we are so comfortable all the time that we become big sissies, how comfortable are we then? Good luck in your new endeavors.
Thanks!
Living the dream. Nice! Hope the first 2 years have ben good to you.
I only found and watched this because I leave my wood and wood-handled tools outside too much/often - thanks for the good info presented thoughtfully and eloquently - but I highly enjoyed your philosophy of science mini lecture. I have to tell friends and family too often that I only "test drive" ideas - for a while or for years - and those ideas are independent of the individuals from whom I heard them. Now I'll have to figure out what to do with the "boiled" linseed oil I have on hand - it may not saturate before drying but it may do me enough good anyway. Thanks.
I like the test drive analogy, that's great!
The trick for me is heat. Heat opens the pores of the wood and allows hot oil to penetrate deeper. On all my wooden bows, I apply hot oil (Fat) from a saucepan and then run my bow over open coals for 1-3 minutes. Than after several saturation coats over a 2 day period, I seal the wood with a beeswax/oil finish.
I have cut a cross section of a broken and well oiled longbow and have found a darker colored wood that extended 6/8ths of an inch from the surface to the center. I believe this to be the oil penetration.
I always tell beginning bow-makers that oiling does two things. Firstly, it slows down any existing moisture content (usually 8-12%) from escaping in a hot and dry climate. That’s not good for a bow, because the moisture content goes below 6% and becomes brittle and may break. Secondly, as we all know, oiling slows the penetration of water via humidity or rain. A bow will lose it’s cast and recover slower when the moisture content gets too high. A well oiled piece of wood will prevent that.
I personally use organic oils for my arrows, bows, and axe handles. Hog, Deer, and pretty much any animal fat that’s rendered works foe me. I also use coconut oil sometimes or a beeswax/fat mixture. I even dabble with mineral oil sometimes.
Any organic oil will work.
Great video, very interesting and informative!
Cheers
-Aaron
Thanks for another informative video! During the holidays, I've been scraping off the BLO from my other restored handles, getting them back down to bare wood, then trying the raw linseed oil. I must say, so far so good -- the oil is really absorbing into the wood without any tackiness on the surface. For my next set of fresh handles, I may make a tube out of PVC pipe, fill it with oil, and allow the handles to soak for a few days. I'm curious to hear if you think that would be worthwhile. Thanks!
I've been planning to do that for a couple of years here, but haven't tried it yet. I was thinking of using black ABS and figuring out fittings that would allow my to leave the oil in and seal the end up when it's not in use. Set in the sun, that should get pretty warm and speed things up. That could make some interesting experiments possible. That might allow really full penetration and saturation if that's what we want. I'm not sure it is. but I'd like to try it. I should hit the hardware store next time I go to town and get that set up.
Again I know it is an old video but my take has pretty much always been linseed oil. Recently been using Watco because I got several cans for a super discount. Its ok. For me this again falls into the category of things I dont think about much after the initial coating. Today I had a Ballistol coated rag and simply wiped everything around down with that. When I was younger the muzzleloading scene was where I found linseed and turpentine mix. It was the preferred finish when hand rubbed until it was hot in your hands. Left beautiful finishes. Curious as tonyour thouggts on soaking handles in kerosene. It was, and might still be, common practice to soak both tool handles and ramrods in kerosene. The difference in ramrod durability seemed to be substantial. Very forgiving and flexible. This kind of echos some points you have brought up.
Somenof the old ways in many things have turned out to be false so your points about keeping an open mind and assumptions are accurate IMO.
Good video and i saw your little tirade as a bonus. Love where your thoughts are at.
What's your opinion on the council tool Woodcraft pack axe I'm leaning towards that one I really like it
Great ! "If one understand why do things, then do not need rules" Too many people spend too much effort to learning rules, to little too understand why things are. 🙏
I’m not quite an expert like you but. I have found that after many applications such as 30-40 it developed a nice coating. But i wasn’t able to get anymore saturation. So I wiped it down with denatured alcohol and was able it get more applications of saturation before a coating developed. They handle color looks great, feels great and just gets a lite coat after a day of use.
I did order a set of Japanese water stones last night after watching you use those stones and why they were your choice ...
But with axes i'm going drop back to what i found looking at 3 different dealers and all the axes were wood handles models , i found one made by Husq that had correct grain and was hung straight out of the entire rack, for the brand i expected better workmanship .. Stihl brand i found was worse in their handles.. I didn't consider head shapes and or designs or head weight at the time i just wanted an axe that was built correctly .. The one dealer was funny , he said it's just an axe... Well ya oaky .. So i looked at replacement wood handles maybe 6-8 handles and found one that was good full length.. Now i have spent $70.00 for the axe and $23.00 for a handle ..I do not know with my skills if i could hang a new handle and hang it straight , so i said no i don't want to do that.. if i were to ruin the handle and have to buy a second handle then i would have $46.00 more into the adventure.. So it just ground to a stop ...
Yes where i live in the Pacific Northwest i see axe heads all the time at garage sales for $2.00-$5.00 and brands my grandfather owned too.. Someday i may tackle hanging a handle ..
I believe you are correct , learn how to hang your own axle handle , a skill i should learn how to do before i'm 80 which is not too far off ..Your video was good.. keep making them..
Binging these videos 3 years later, lol
I’ll keep watching if you keep talking, thank you for making me feel more normal 🙏🙏🙏.
Even off-the-cuff, great vid - thanks! Any thoughts regarding pine tar/pitch in these applications? I vaguely remember you mentioning that you contemplated doing some experiments with them.
+drason69 I have plans to experiment, but I haven't yet. I like the idea of pitch, but who knows. I know some use pine tar. The issue with either is getting them to penetrate when it's thick or solid at room temp, so either heat or solvent would be required.
Have you tried the 50/50 mix of linseed oil and turpintine ?
My Grandfather used it on all his tool handles and a couple rifle stocks.
Thanks for the video, you provided lots of good insight into the subject. Pocket83 sent me here!
Thanks!
LOL Life is like one big science experiment ,,,,, so rock on brother !
To me it is, except that I operate mostly outside of the bounds of scientific methodology. It's handy, but it ain't the only game in town. There is a lot to be said for intuition and doing a lot.
As bill j mentioned about alternatives. Can venison tallow or beeswax, perhaps a combination, be useful? Thanks Steve!
Brother, your stance on belief at the end of this video is one of the most beautifully put ways to say that, "belief" is only what someone else is telling you. Think for yourself. Take information from others and, with your own experience, draw a conclusion from that and your experiences. As equally important is to know when you are out of your realm of knowledge and experience. When this is the case, choose wisely who you look to for guidance. Folks need this message now even more than when you made this video.
If there is a single useful thing I could do in the time I have left on this planet, it would be to do what I can to help usher in the paradigm shift that is due and trying to happen. That paradigm shift is essentially away from the sacred institution of belief, whether it's from science, personal identity, group identity and dogmas or religion and toward an orientation with veracity. The hard thing to communicate is that truth is not really the changing of dogmas or beliefs. We are so entrenched in belief thinking that this is the default assumption that you need to find a "truth" that is righter than the "truth" you believed before, but the ultimate truth is that we are profoundly and ridiculously ignorant. But that is okay. we have functioned in this state of profound ignorance forever. If we would just recognize it and attempt to make peace with it, we would be much more functional and knowledgeable, not less. But chasing truths and trying to tie them down is fraught with danger and we just make more dogmas. These ideas are starting to gel in my head, but by it's nature, an orientation toward truth has to have vast open spaces and uncertainties. That is maybe the message really. At some point I will be able to articulate all of this better. The problem is not saying it, it's finding ways to actually communicate it effectively and offer tools to change the way we think, which requires pre-emptively heading off the traps we typically fall into, which all lead back to belief thinking. A good resource for this type of approach to life is eastern wisdom, which at it's best rejects belief and identity in an attempt to perceive the world fresh and unfiltered. Check out this short segment. ua-cam.com/video/nNcFquUuKww/v-deo.html We are so entrenched, whether by nature, or by nurture, perhaps both, in belief thinking that most people will not be willing to put in the work. But given tools that work, some will and eventually it will affect the people around them. Something has to combat the egomania, narcissism and tribalism that are ruling people's lives and interactions and not just wrecking any hope of social cohesion, but wrecking us from the inside out and making us grossly ineffectual. Try to tell anyone any of that now and you'll get mostly deer in the headlights looks lol.
@@SkillCult You speak to a truth . I do not understand the need for absolutes of a binary world. Freedom lies within the area between black and white.
I have some axe handles that I drilled a hole in the end of, filled with linseed oil (several times) and sealed back in 1980 or so. Seeing this video makes me want to try to inspect them to see if that was at all worth it.
I remember now hearing about people doing that, or suggesting it. I'm unwilling to sacrifice any entire tool handles just now, but I may change my mind...
I've always used boiled linseed oil cut with mineral spirits.
I read an article from a gunsmithing book, circa 1930's, stating that a very good way to make walnut stocks very water and humidity resistant is to is to saturate the wood with raw LO and 50% turpentine heated to boiling and apply liberally and after an hour wipe off excess and repeat every day until it will not take any more. The same oil is reheated for each application. Let set at least a week then apply thin coats of the same every 3 days until the desired finish is reached.
I love when you oil a wooden handle. It becomes a darker brown, and shines.
Flax seed oil for your cast iron.
Makes your kitchen smell like your shop as well as hammers.
I like to use tru-oil for my wooden hammer and axe handles but am concerned about the safety even after looking at safety specs. i am definitely going to start using hand protection when applyling with an old cotton t shirt. I have also been a fan of mixing turpentine and boiled linseed oil 50/50, but will now use the raw linseed oil instead, maybe mixing with turpentine. My rule is work outside, avoid inhaling , and (now) wear hand protection. As always, thanks for these great videos!
I really like the plain edible oil. I can add oil anytime of day and just wipe it off my hands and go back to whatever I'm going or eat stuff with my hands etc. Especially if going for some degree of saturation, it has to be applied a lot unless soaked.
A+ tirade at the end there. Steven do you have any thoughts on oil for wooden bows? Linseed still basically the best? Just wondering if a drying and hardening oil would affect bending wood at all. Thanks!
Well, I guess the one thing I would say is that I'd be cautious about saturating a bow like that. I have a gut feeling it would start to follow or become sluggish or something. Otherwise, linseed or any drying oil ought to be fine. I think a lot of people use beeswax or a beeswax oil mix.
Thank you for talking about concepts so we don't have to remember "the rules."
I've had people tell me this set of rules for oiling tool handles about times a day, then times a week, then times a month or something, and I was like I can't even remember that! And who cares anyway. How hot is it? what kind of wood? I have seen hickory that only soaks up a little, then that''s it, and other stuff that drinks oil like crazy.
Flaxseed oil like I would find at the super market?
I'll look at the local hardware stores but I dont recall seeing raw linseed.
I recently have switched to BLO/pine tar mix that logcabinlooms speaks of. I like the darker color it gives the wood (unnessary I know) my thoughts behind it is, the oil penetrates and the tar leaves a water proof coating. I really have no idea if it's any better or the same as just BLO? Figure I have nothing too loose. I have recently read some older books on early settlement, 1800's ect... The talk about BLO, Pine Tar and Turpentine in these books. Seems like they used these 3 things on everything. Not always together but they were common back then. I like simple.
I haven't got into pine tar at all yet, but I've done a few things with raw pitch mixed with oil and beeswax. I have plans to try all that stuff more, either with a solvent, or with heat to allow penetration, but I'd prefer heat. Pitch sure makes sense from a preservative standpoint and for permanence.
Pine tar deters rot
@@samhansen9771 yes
“Faith and Belief are overrated.” That’s one of things I love about this channel. Let’s hear it for critical thinking!
yeah, but real critical thinking, not the belief based rejectionist thinking that often passes for it.
Yes, water in wood, air drying and forced kiln drying will break open the cells releasing water past air drying. Was the end more smoke from the recent fires or a foggy morning? Handle finishes are fun. One thing I have have found is time and dirt put a polished finish on a well used handle, nothing like the old timer you mentioned though. I do find my most used handle has a nice gloss to it with little to no finish what so ever. I will now consider this info and work it into my process.... it will penetrate.
That was fog. I've read stuff before about bound moisture that is part of cells taking longer to leave, but reading more about it, there isn't a lot of solid info on it. I was reading an interesting paper on changes wood undergoes in seasoning, but their findings were essentially different from other previous studies on the same. They were all also looking at mostly very old wood, 60 years and more, compared to fresh dried wood. I'm interested in the first 20 or 30 years. The loss of bound water thing is possibly true in leather and hides as well, though I think it might also be degradation of proteins the that hold water in the skin and I don't know what that mechanism is. I'm not sure why he likes to resoak in that 50/50 in the off season. it may have to do with flexibility. Of course 50/50 solvent and oil is not just oil and maybe it is beneficial in some way to have that solvent or solved oil in the heart of that handle. He recommended that I treat some handles and test them against controls in a hydraulic press. I'd like to do that sometime. Nothing polishes like use. People ask me sometimes how to polish handles and make them look used. I'd feel like dumbass doing that. just use it. It takes surprisingly little work. One side effect of the cordwood challenge I'm hoping for is more dirty axes on youtube lol.
downeast primitive skills I agree on the well used tools needing very little...it seems like it's the little used tools that should be protected, so that when they are pulled out to do that specialized job they're in good shape.
I recently read a study of oil finishes and how they penetrate into hardwoods.They took equally sized pieces of different hardwoods and wiped some each day with drying oils for one week.They submerged some for three days and some for seven days.After allowing sufficient drying times they cut the pieces in half to see the amount of penetration.It was quite surprising to see how little oil actually penetrated past the surface.Of course the wood that was submerged for seven days had more than the others but it was not deep into the wood as you would hope for.There was very little difference from the wiped and three day submerged pieces.During the study they weighed each piece of wood before and after and they gained very little weight from the oil.If you ever break one of your older and well oiled handles it would be interesting to see the interior of the wood.
I have a Council Tool FSS Forest Service Boys Axe that I started applying layers of boiled linseed oil to without sanding the handle first as it did not look like it had a finish. As far as you know, was I correct or do these axes usually come with a light finish? If I want to go with the non boiled, saturated route will it be necessary to now sand off the coating of boiled linseed oil I have applied to get proper penetration and saturation?
The one I have here has no finish that I can see at all. If the BLO keeps soaking in and you don't mind using it, go for it, Otherwise, maybe scrape the surface a little or sand and see if the raw oil will soak in. If it it taking oil, just go for it.
Amen brother.
I like Tung Oil. Used to be big in my area. Ted Turner just tore down the old tung oil facility a mile from my property. Used to be number one until polyurethane. I like it except for the smell. Most all drying oils will slightly emulsify in water but resist at first. What I like is the dying oils soak in a bit, but polyurethane is on the surface like paint.
I'm not too familiar I think for handle saturation, anything reasonably drying is fine. Mr. chickadee just uses cheap veg oil.
I see you have had your fill of trolls also. Good to see you out there and looking better.
I really don't get very many actually, surpisingly few. I get more on videos that reach the general public more, rather than the people that are already into this stuff. Honestly, sometimes it's fun to tear them a new one :) I just think it's really not good how easily people believe stuff and how much they try to use it to even just have a position on something they don't need to have a position about at all.
Hi Stephen. Are you able to give an opinion on staining an axe handle? I’m restoring a hatchet head I found and like I’d a dark red/brown finish for the handle. Everything I’ve read however seems to indicate staining is problematic unless the tool is merely intended for a wall hanging. I know the idea of staining probably cuts against the grain of your thinking on things, but I think that’s why I’d like to know your thoughts. Thanks!
I can't say I know much about that. What about flame treatment ala buckin billy ray smith?
Howsit Steven.
Is the penetration and saturation a function of the oil to turps ratio and the density of the wood, and if so would reducing the turps over time with each soak ensure a progressive better long term outcome?
Seems likely, but I don't think it's necessary to overthink or tweak the process. I mean I'm happy with whatever soaks in easily enough over time. If you wanted a deeper soak maybe, or faster, but just getting about 18 inch or so seems to work pretty good.
All of us have told ourselves lies, that we believe to be true........... Like you said, it is human nature......comforting. We must come to the realization that beliefs can be dangerous. I like what you said about having all the doors and windows open. I also appreciate your honesty.......that I shouldn''t believe you just because you said so. The only real way to find truth is to experience it. Thank You
We are probably doing it all the time. Ideas and habits get so entrenched that we probably can't see them anymore.
How do you think some of this might be applied toward preparing reclaimed Douglas Fir for use in kitchen cabinets? I hate to just coat them with plastic, which is what most of the finishes seem to be. But I also don't want to get swept up in the hype of "miracle" oils, waxes, etc..
I wouldn't. I don't think you'll like the look. At least experiment first. Maybe if you put a wax or sometihng on top. But kitchen cabinets are going to get pretty grimy if they are not sealed. I'd probably look into a water based polyurethane like Bon Chemi. That stuff is amazing and goes on without any odor. I've done a couple of old fir floors with it. Super tough and looks great. You can get it in a satin if you dont' want the gloss look.
I have an old vw beach car with an era correct wood steering wheel, the wood is dry and obviously shunk as the metal rivits that hold it to the metal frame are loose and rattling, how should I replenish the wood so it swells a little and looks nice?
I would probably soak it in linseed oil. Hard to say how much it will swell though. I imagine there are other modern products for that too.
I bought a CRKT Tomahawk. The head wasn't trying tight for a while. I filed the top end of the eye, sanded the handle a little and soaked in in (boiled) linseed oil soaked rag for a week.
I'm worried it didn't swell the wood like I hoped. I can still see some opening on the bottom of the eye.
Should o have used a linseed/turpentine mix?
Do I need to get a new handle and try again? Or can I redo mine?
Put a steel wedge in it. Oil can work, but you usually can only do it once. Unless it's a drop in handle like a traditional tomahawk.
How is the charred axe handle holding up? Did you do that yet?
I didn't. I was reading recently about heat treating woods just the other day and it has a deleterious effect on strength, even kiln drying, let alone charring. I guess it's becoming a big deal for guitar tone woods now to heat treat wood to get resonant effects similar to aged wood. Charring the outside of wood may not matter, but it could also help initiate a crack and that is where a break starts. I should do one though, just because I like the look. I char other woods quite a bit. It's cool. I was just thinking yesterday about charring some wood for post experiments to see how long they will last if well baked deep into the wood.
You are a good brother . Stay lit
What are your thoughts on beeswax after you linseed oil I feel like I've been oiling this handle for days and I've seen guys use beeswax after they're done oiling
If you get that outer rind saturated it's really not necessary to do anything else. Beeswax will just wear off, like any coating.. If you want, you can stop and let it cure for a while, then go back to oiling in a couple weeks. That might slow down penetration and allow the oil to build up closer to the surface.
When final coat is done is the wood oily? When used in a hot environment does it deep oil out?
not when it really cures out, which doesn't take very long.
Great attitude regarding authority. You’ve arrived at a Socratic mindset and you’ll learn and refine your thinking your whole life.
I'm not familiar with him or much other philosophy. I try to keep that stuff as non-derivative as possible by avoiding consuming too much of other people's ideas. If we keep seeking truth or the closest thing we can find to it though, certain things become apparent. One is our counterproductive tendency to rally around authority and subjugate our thinking and our actions to other people. I say counterproductive, but that should be modified by context. If everyone thought for themselves in the military for example, it probably wouldn't run all that well :) I'm pretty well convinced that we need a paradigm shift in thinking away from belief and toward more open ended models where what we don't know and how often we might be wrong is given much more play and the veracity of information is viewed more truthfully. At least among people who choose to be thinkers. Even among the general populace though, thought may be able to be shifted in that direction eventually. We do have very plastic minds, even if a lot of our behavioral tendencies might be hardwired.
His most famous saying was "The only thing I know is how little I do know." and so in the books he's asking questions, why, why, why. Why is that good? What do you mean by good? etc. And no one can answer and he doesnt send you home with a slogan. The dialogs don't give a teaching (people say they do) but instead demonstrate a method that if you're bold enough you can imitate. Its basically just an interogation of recieved ideas, like your interrogation of boiled lso, and your interrogation of "why is the surface coat good? Do we even need it?"
Oddly enough he was a craftsman, a stonecutter by trade, and served in the Athenian army. Contemporary records indicate he shut up while deployed and was a good soldier.
We're hardwired to be social, but maybe not in groups so large and not with so much top-down presentation of Knowledge and Facts. We've unduly venerated "experts" and fetishize credentials to the point we over look results as an indication of competence.
I'm pretty excited to watch the rest of your videos and I'm pretty excited to see where you take channel or allow it to take you. Thanks for sharing with us.
Awesome comments. sounds like my kind of guy. One of my teachers used to say "the more you know, the dumber you are." I'm interested in approaching philosophy and most processes as an excavation of existing truths, or maybe inherent observations that could be made. For me, that is very intuitive. Much of my discontent with modern thought has come from attempting to use language to describe things that I can intuitively sense as emerging patterns in that way, and understand to a point. In trying to bring them to a communicable form, I realize how inadequate language is to the task. Simply taking the concept that a word is not a thing and the world cannot be accurately described throws authority into major question. So do things like perspective and bias and the obvious limits of human intellect. The first chapter of Sapiens, by Yuval Harari proposes that it's the ability to communicate and believe fictions which allowed Homo Sapiens to win the species race over other hominids. That totally makes sense to me, but it's super ironic, because effectively innovative and out-of-the-box thinkers have to essentially operate mostly outside of that mechanism. They are probably likely to be either elevated to authority status, or more likely marginalized, ignored and ridiculed. One of the reasons I chose the name SkillCult is to poke at people's brains to think about that authority paradigm, because I'm relentlessly encouraging people to think, which is the most un-cultlike thing possible lol. Something like the concept of authority can be useful in getting by day to day and making decisions, but more so if we view it for what it really is and note all of the assumptions made by all parties invovled, instead of elevating everything to some level of belief and then acting.
Does it ever polymerize?
Ever tried using scotch broom for the wood? I've made a little hatchet handle, and some knife handles from it. It can be an attractive wood
I haven't. I'll keep my eyes out for big pieces to play with.
Have you tried using a "wood hardner" then try to add the oil?
No, sounds too high tech for me. I'm happy with the oil.
I was working with a shipwright before, the project was a replica of the Danish Skuldelev 6 Longboat made from green (unseasoned) oak. Reason why green: seasoned oak would be much harder to work with. However this introduced a lot of shrinkage, warping, twisting and splitting into the workflow. I came back after a weekend to find a 1/4" gap in each of the decking planks I'd laid down, these same planks were snug on Friday when I set them.
Ideally (spoke the shipwright) we'd be using a series of fine pine tar oils. These oils were graded to suit different wood wetness and you'd work through them in sequence; starting with the lightest for maximum penetration, and as the wood cured using the 'coarser' oil to just soak into the surface a bit.
But this would have cost 100's of monies so we used vegetable oil to coat the wood instead This helped replace the lost moisture with a more stable oil and helped reduce the worst of the drying distresses in the planks. And it worked pretty well! Though without the glorious pineyous smell of the real tar oil.
(I then decided to use veg oil to coat some tools I'd salvaged and cleaned which was a terrible idea, the oil just dried like a skin on them and gummed up the workings. I use DT5 oil for protecting them now, does a good job).
What dilutes the pine tar oil? Turps?
@@AldoSchmedack As far as I know (and I don't know very far) the oils used to protect the drying wood are used as is, they're not concentrate and don't require thinning. They're not actually a raw pine tar, but a pre-processed derivative. But that isn't the question you asked; I'm not sure what would be used to thin the tar if you needed to do so, it wasn't a situation we encountered.
I'll admit, I love being outdoors and working outdoors, but my experience with the ax nowadays commonly starts and stops at camping. We used to have a fireplace in my childhood home that we used liberally in the wintertime. I did so much chopping in the autumn days back then I think I still have the callouses lol. However, I couldn't agree with you more about the nature of "belief" and the problems of binary (true/false) thinking. The moment one starts to believe something, then by definition, they believe that the opposite of what they believe, or anything else in the spectrum between "true" and "untrue" (as they have now been established by belief), to be false. I've found that when one chooses to believe something, or especially "in" something or someone, they close many, MANY doors, and ultimately they shut themselves off from possibility.
Thanks a lot for the video dude, I wish I would have caught it two years ago when it came out, but better late than never :-)
When you add a drying agent to an oil is it a 50/50 mix?
If you mean the metals that are added as a catalyst to speed oil polymerization, no. It's a very small amount. Lead used to be the go to substance for that, but not they use some other metals. There are old recipes for that. The substances were called Japan drier, because they were used to cure the oil to look like Japanese laquer ware. So any old references always refer to that term.
Thanks for sharing your approach on oiling tool handles:)
Ive been using the terp mix method aswell. start with 25/75 oil to tarp. than 50/50, then 75/25 followed by pure linseed oil. Same idea as you put it on each time untill wood doesnt take up anymore, then move on to next ratio.
You might find a drum or big can in animal feed suppliers. where i get mine its 100% raw for 5L for the same price as 750ML 'boiled' linseed oil in the hardware shop !
Keep it up man!
Excellent tip on the feed store oil. I'll check it out!
I used to get it by the gallon for free via a local farmer I used to do odd jobs for. He grew about a thousand acres of linseed every year and cart it to the oil pressing plant and he could always scrounge a few gallons. I wish I had laid down a store when I had the chance. A change of manager at the plant and that gig was over :
haha.... enjoyed that you suddenly veered off into discussing belief....interesting how believing other peoples thoughts, or your own for that matter,..... is what creates the state of the world exactly as it is now or anytime....inquiring into your own beliefs is quite a challenging endeavor and the most powerfully freeing thing one can do..... thank you! .......bye......c
I think one of the most important things to realize is that we may be largely unaware of our own biases, unconscious motivations and just plain obvious wrongness. My dad once said to me that everyone can see our own bullshit better than we can.
Look at that nice logo that's right side up ...... great info /////thx
ha, yeah, got it right this time.
What's the thoery of the old man for using oil and therpentine
turpentine is a solvent for oils, so it would thin the oil and probably allow deeper or faster penetration. I don't think it dissovles polymerized oil though, so not sure on the continued soaking.
I want to do this to my opinel 8. My question is will this swell the wood and make it difficult to open the blade? Any help would be appreciated!
Yes and even worse, the oil will gum up too. I would just do coats on the lower part of the handle and stay away from the hinge. that is what I did with mine.
it's pretty expensive but take a look at Allback linseed oil. I'm currently using the "boiled" version and it seems to soak in quickly and dries relatively fast if you're using infrared heat. doesn't contain any solvents or drying agents and lacks the proteins you find in food grade linseed oil that can lead to premature degradation i.e. mold, mildew etc. I believe it's produced for antique restoration. I've been using it for some time now and it's a joy to work with.
Thanks. I think the proteins can be precipitated by heating or other processes. I'm sure my old formulas books have that information. I know there are some non-toxic metals that can be used as driers. Iron is one of them. But presumably they are less effective. I have a lot yet to research on linseed and the other drying oils.
Handles first and then the tirade...I'm a recovering handle coater (swinging edge tools), and kicked the habit through observation. Coating wears, so why worry so much. I gradually became aware that the polish of use, is much more interesting than the gloss of finish.
Oil, and then on to the tirade...I've arrived to the same conclusions that you did about BLO but my problem has been finding an affordable source for raw linseed oil. I have 30+ wooden handles to maintain every year. Thoughts on sourcing?
On to the tirade...Bravo! We use authority and belief in many ways. Informationally (Miracle diet, Super-Food, Anti-oxidant), because it allows use to sign off on responsibility. A great example is Rome's use of lead to sweeten wine, and our modern belief that 'free range eggs, are much different than battery-caged.
Voyeuristically...Oh, watch someone cook, make something, opine, and now we don't have to!
Information comes from thousands of places in this day and age. Knowledge comes from experience...and that brings us back to participation and responsibility.
P. S. Did you flash a rawhide collar in this video? I need to try that stitch.
Someone left a comment saying to look into flax oil from feedstores sold in bulk. Worth checking into I'd say. Otherwise, I'm not sure. Even the cheapest stuff I find is still more than the 1 gallon can option of industrial stuff that I don't buy anymore.
Diet is the perfect example of a place people frequently put belief before action. The information age I'm hoping will eventually enlighten us more to the difference between information and knowledge. We'll see. It's inforhea out there.
That is the cheese glue and cloth wrap, not the rawhide one. It hasn't been used enough to say how it will hold up yet.
Found a bottle cheap enough to justify, First thing I noticed is raw oil's ability to penetrate. I keep feeding, and it keeps drinking, so I know it's sinking in.
On Another note. I'm tuning a CT B's axe for a gift, and the handle came unfinished!
The usual coating on the CT BA is some kind of wax that makes it unusable. Probably just supposed to protect the handle temporarily.
This came bare wood, and it was a happy surprise!
How does flax seed oil saturation affect the wood's flammability?
I imagine it is increased, but what would definitely be increased is it's fuel value, so it would burn longer and I would imagine hotter.
I like the idea of soaking the tools in the off season, but soaking all the long handled tools like shovels and rakes would take quite a bit of oil. Maybe a pipe filled with oil and you could cycle out tools in it for a week at a time throughout the year. Im not sure what the turpentine does though. Does that break down the “plastic” coating to allow more linseed oil to penetrate deeper?
I've been meaning to get together some different lengths of black ABS tubing to make handle soakers. Turpentine thins the oil. It might allow for deepr penetration, or faster, but it is not pure oil then.
SkillCult I was a little worried about pvc or abs because the oil might react with them. I have a bunch of scrap pvc pieces all sizes up to 4” diameter.
I dig what you're saying here on belief. Years ago I saw a bit on a tv show where one one the characters talked about the search for truth. In the scene he said that the search was like shining a bright flashlight into a dark room, and that the narrower, brighter beam lit up one small part of the room, at the expense of the shadows in the rest of the room.
Okay, I'm going to go figure out some stuff on my own. I bet I'll make some mistakes. I bet I'll learn from them. Hopefully.
That's an interesting analogy. I think there is often an over emphasis on solidifying and proving things that can lead to rigidity and closes the doors of perception. We all live in a mental maze by necessity, but certain habits, thought patterns and language can really limit our thinking. If we over value facts and their pursuit and importance, then we are more likely to find them when they aren't there and use those as roadblocks to further inquiry. Science is largely based on proving out knowledge to build on and I think the valuation of that can easily lead to misuse of the concept, outside of it's original intent. Too often when we talk about facts, we are actually describing about belief. Like any of the rest of it, the distinction is not always clear.
Love sign ... Linseed oil is same as Flax oil? ps you are doing good sharing ... thank you ... do yo have visiting hours?
yes
Yep, same stuff. No visiting hours. I'm a recluse.
Flax seed is what it's usually called when it's food safe.
can you use food safe flax oil like linseed oil?
Yes. Possible differences, some pointed out it contains impurities that can be precipitated out by cooking or other methods. hasn't seemed like a problem for me. The only other thing I can think of is that they may use different strains of flax for food or industrial use oils. But, given that the oils the health food people want are the same unstable drying fatty acids, it doesn't seem like an issue. I've used it a lot now and it seems to work fine right out of the bottle.
@skillcult. question about Sticky handles. Hm... Now I´ve saturated my Huls Bruk Hunting axe, with raw, cold pressed linseed oil (aka: Virgin Linseed Oil). Point being that the coldpressed would take longer time to cure ande thereby soaking (penetrating) deeper into the wood. I´ve treated it like this so far: 1x linseed oil every day for a week, once a week for a month and once per month thereafter. So far ive treated it the one week and there after 2 times. Now it has been sitting for a couple of weeks or four. The handle does NOT seem smooth but rather ... sticky. How come? And how do i get the smooth surface that i do want? Turpentine? br Wulff
You should either let it dry on the outside or not oil it anymore. If it's soaking it in, it won't be sticky. If it dries and then you add more, it might be a little sticky, but as soon as you wipe off excess and use it, it will polish down and smooth out. At least that is my experience. Wipe off the excess, stop oiling it; and use it a lot.
@@SkillCult Thanks a lot Dear SC! :) just came to think that i actually didnt wipe it very much after each oiling. Guess I should have wiped more excess oil off. Thanjs again man
Is black cumin seed oil drying or non drying oil?
I would guess drying. but I'm not sure I have some sitting around to experiment with , but never got around to it yet.
Thank you for the comprehensive analysis of the matter.Your way of thinking resembles the Ancients Greeks one ! Check it out!!!