I compared this with the Cadillac CT4V Blackwing, and ended up going with the Blackwing for a few reasons. 1) The manual shifter in the BW, is sublime. Absolutely sublime. The BMW shifter felt rubbery, and didn't fill me with joy. 2) The giant screen was a little extra and I don't think it will age well especially since I want to keep the car for the long haul. The Caddy's interior is a lot simpler, with physical controls for everything. 3) It costs a LOT more than the Blackwing, and to me didn't warrant the BMW premium. The only issue with the BW is that the rear seats are small...so if you're regularly hauling adults for long trips, it's not for you. But for kids (under 15yrs) and groceries, and daily driving, the Blackwing is perfect. I used to own an E39M5, and to me, the the Blackwing is the closest spiritual successor to that car available for sale now.
i looked between these two and chose the m3. however mine is a 22 without the dumb lazy long screen. I REALLY wanted the ct5 blackwing but it was 10k beyond what I wanted to spend.
I went through the same debate and ended up getting the G80 with a manual. I agree on the screen comment but I got lucky when I ordered mine. I had the option to order a 2022 or a 2023 with the screens. I opted for the 2022 which doesn’t have iDrive 8 with the massive screens. I’m glad I made that decision. Would be curious to drive a BW though, I never got to drive one.
Something that I feel would be a game changer for these daily-able sports sedans is active bushings. Imagine if you could firm up your subframe, suspension, engine, transmission etc bushings at the touch of a button. Can’t imagine how complicated that would be to develop and implement though.
From what I've heard, the general consensus on the G80 M3 is this: i) The controversial grill is growing on most people (key word being "most"). ii) S58 engine is the highlight of the G-series. iii) Most M fans consider it to be too big and heavy for an M3, but just fine as a new-old school M5 (circa E39) iv) Steering is very numb compared to key rivals. This is the most frequent complaint I've heard, but there are mods like suspension alignment, monoball front arm bushings (such as those from Dinan) and CSL flash tune steering that can fix this issue, but then it raises the question of why a performance car needs the aftermarket to fix it's shortcomings (i.e. do the manufacturer's homework) when rivals do it better from the factory? v) Chassis and suspension tune are great, but not enough to overcome the numb steering.
The steering comment was spot on. I have driven the F80 and the G80 and the steering is so stale in there, very little feed back and turning just feels so rubbery. I daily an 01 GS430 on coilovers and other suspension mods (not exactly a sports car) but I found even that cars steering to be miles better. Such a shame since the powertrain on this is out of this world. Also I hated the cluster so much 😂. Wanted to rip the silly laptop screen out of there. Extreme overkill, way way too much going on there, graphics all over the place. Overall you can’t complain about anything else though. The car is an animal. I will never forget the power on it, and despite the lack of feel, it was so agile and grips so well. My jaw was dropped driving it, but the steering was such a sharp contrast to the rest of the package. An absolutely amazing car nonetheless!
Seeing these reviews make me happy with my purchase. I understand the numbness and engagement but nobody can show me another NEW manual, rwd performance sedan on this level. Porsche is the only other similarly priced option for that type of drive. This car is still so much fun to drive and dravit grey is amazing.
@@Gurka84 base price is significantly higher. ~20k. They were also marking them up ridiculously. I know a lot of folks aren’t fans of the m3 look but the black wing is not a good looking car to me.
@@kentao4 BW isn’t too pretty but there are no big fouls like that M3 front grill. Anyway many think it’s the best driving sedan in this segment, the most engaging and fun.
@@Gurka84 the grill grew on me and now I like it. I just don’t like Cadillac long term. Interior is also blah. I like all the tech BMW now has. It’s a better package for cheaper
What a timely video. I have a 2023 M4 manual and I’m looking to replace it. I have very similar sentiments as you. It’s a competent and fast car, but I’ve just never formed that connection. I’ve never parked it and looked back.
I almost got an M4 but I got an RCF and I could never get rid of it. I stand in my garage sometimes and just admire it sometimes lol. Do you feel there’s a reason you couldn’t form a connection? I’d love to have a G82 as well.
Hi F, I checked in with you last September about the Integra Type-S, I ended up buying the BMW G80 M3 base manual without the bucket seats. I am loving it so far with the 🚗. Glad to see you made a review on the G80 manual.
I agree with your thoughts on the G80 manual. One of my friends is lucky enough to have G80 manual and CT5 blackwing, so I drove both and what a difference in engagement. The G80 feels sterile in comparison, but I will say I feel there’s a different character with the competition version vs the manual (in terms of sheer capability and competence). Like the car is optimized for automatic. Regardless, I’ve been turned off by BMW M almost entirely (I used to be a fanboy when I had E90 330 lol).
With the TCS dial 1-10, available with DCS off, you can control the amount of slip allowed. With the dial at 9-10 it won't let you overwhelm the tires. It's a much more digital experience and relies little on steering feel. With time behind the wheel you can begin to understand how the car behaves at varying levels of TCS, there is no emphases on feeling.
Amazing how much better the G80 looks with just a few mods. New grills, lowered and its like a new car. Can’t imagine trusting SPL arms with a car that heavy. People are having issues with the lighter GR86 and this thing weighs another 1000lbs.
I was on a Rally last year in my manual G80 and a Ferrari 458 was behind me all moving. When we pulled over for lunch, the 458 driver came up to me and said “that thing rips!! I had to really push it to keep up with you”
love the hips on these things. wish the 4vBW had the same flares...the aftermarket mid pipe options really open these babies up to a better experience. but in general there shouldn't be much of any complaints at this price point.
GR Supra is more playful than G80 due to its size and weight. Also has the better manual shift feel. Hard to compare FR vs FF driving dynamics since it's so dependent on how much you value power oversteer. But I'd say Supra is the most fun of all 4.
I had both an a91 manual Supra alongside a g80 m3cx, both completely stock. I couldn’t believe how much more connected I felt in the M3, even with steering. Of course the Supra felt better around tight, twisty stuff but the g80 was superior to me.
Any thoughts on how it compares to the M2. They should be basically be identical driving cars but I had a lot more fun driving the M2 for some reason, but appreciate the added practically practicality of the M3 and having 4 doors and useable back seats.
Great video per usual! Disappointed by the sound.. seems he has active sound coded off but to my ears this sounds way worse than the F80 (which nobody said sounded good). Sounds like forza.
I'm considering an m3 comp as my next daily to replace my integra type s as a daily once the used ones come down in price. Thoughts? I'm considering m3, RCF or maybe even a lc500 since I'll have a GX by that point
For reals. I wonder what in the world they were thinking. Seems like it's either a cost saving measure or saving 0.1 of fuel. Either way, it seems really misplaced in a sporty car
IMHO, The blackwing engine is perfectly fine when it’s evaluated without the notion of “it should have been a v8”. It feels naturally aspirated, revs out decently , doesn’t have turbo lag and has more than enough power for the road. Oh also flat foot shifting. Sounds mid though.
@@ramanapixelxl7572 V8 feel is more important. if you want actual performance numbers, the tunable BMW motors provide more value. this is part of why the Camaro SS 1LE is so beloved, despite being fairly slow in a straight line in stock form
I mean, you're entitled to like what you like. However, I think truly great designs don't need to "grow" on you and they aren't dependent upon certain colors to look good. Great designs are immediately apparent and striking in all the right ways. These things are "striking" in the same way Batman's Tumbler is "striking." I wouldn't call it pretty.
Nope. Still look ugly IMO. I live in LA where you see a bunch of these in all colors. Stock or modified with even the Adro front bumper they still look ugly. Great driving car for sure but definitely not something I'd look back at after parking
Your car selection, driving and analytical perspective is elite. Only thing missing is a dash of charisma for some Channel identity. A 90 sec intro over topic and location might be able to inject some audience bonding with you the host.
Love that this is still available in a stick, but to answer your question of where else can you get a daily usable sedan with a manual and around that level of performance: CT5-V Blackwing. It would be hard to choose between the two I think
Given the numb handling and all that leak of spiritedness of driving this car I stand for a wagon. For a grocery getter all these downers are forgivable since expectations are nowhere comparing to coupe. So yeas I think the only m3 that’s really worth it is wagon. If you wanna spirited driver you need to look for old school car
This car is not the best or fastest at anything. Last Gen corvettes are cheaper, made faster laptimes and are more reliable. The minute the warranty runs out the BMW will fall apart
*aftermarket zip tied suspension, i leld* *btw f80 is a dog. G80 is better in all aspects even in looks, bigger pig nostrils ftw, better air intake/cooling and aethetics*
@zygrane, I have a question. You may be able to help. I have an IS500. I love the engine and its built quality. That said, I am missing a manual. Any suggestions? I can do ITS, CTR, M2 and potentially Supra (no back seats). Any suggestions on a used market. 🤦🏼♂️ I do not know anymore. I even thought about RC-F Track Edition, I know it too is an automatic, but I was curious if its uniqueness would get me over the lack of manual.
@@LateNightDateNightprobably driver error on your behalf. My RCF has the TVD and is incredible in any situation. Even better with enhanced LCA bushings to deal with its weight.
My coworker purchased a '24 M3 Comp in the exact same color last month. It is a VIOLENT car.
violent LOL
I compared this with the Cadillac CT4V Blackwing, and ended up going with the Blackwing for a few reasons. 1) The manual shifter in the BW, is sublime. Absolutely sublime. The BMW shifter felt rubbery, and didn't fill me with joy. 2) The giant screen was a little extra and I don't think it will age well especially since I want to keep the car for the long haul. The Caddy's interior is a lot simpler, with physical controls for everything. 3) It costs a LOT more than the Blackwing, and to me didn't warrant the BMW premium.
The only issue with the BW is that the rear seats are small...so if you're regularly hauling adults for long trips, it's not for you. But for kids (under 15yrs) and groceries, and daily driving, the Blackwing is perfect. I used to own an E39M5, and to me, the the Blackwing is the closest spiritual successor to that car available for sale now.
i looked between these two and chose the m3. however mine is a 22 without the dumb lazy long screen. I REALLY wanted the ct5 blackwing but it was 10k beyond what I wanted to spend.
@@chitterlingsrtasty how much was the M3?
I went through the same debate and ended up getting the G80 with a manual. I agree on the screen comment but I got lucky when I ordered mine. I had the option to order a 2022 or a 2023 with the screens. I opted for the 2022 which doesn’t have iDrive 8 with the massive screens. I’m glad I made that decision.
Would be curious to drive a BW though, I never got to drive one.
Two different kind of buyers IMO. The people that know they want a g80 will get a g80
Would not touch anything made by General Motors after my piston slap fiasco M3 all the way.
Drove one of these (base 2022 manual) through Tail of the Dragon and was genuinely impressed with how well they hide the weight.
I drove mine all the way from Philly to the tail. Ton of fun.
Drove an x6m thing felt like a car 😂 hella light
@@NOCallerID00 lol really?
lol I’m at SoHo RN. I have a camp beside the tail.
Manual car video reviews will always get a like.
I will never be able to forgive BMW for not selling the touring here.
It's very unfortunate. At least they're bringing the M5 Touring.
They would've sold about 14 of them
But would you actually buy one?
@@opmike343 I would love to if it was available! Truthfully the M5 touring doesn't appeal to me nearly as much as the M3 touring does
@@andrewrossnagel9433 they would have genuinely sold out. The rs6 wagon sells out and so will the m5 wagon.
I was fortunate enough to drive a 2022 G80 manual at my dealership job. All imma say is the grind is gonna be tough, but I will own one of these😮💨🔥
Something that I feel would be a game changer for these daily-able sports sedans is active bushings. Imagine if you could firm up your subframe, suspension, engine, transmission etc bushings at the touch of a button.
Can’t imagine how complicated that would be to develop and implement though.
From what I've heard, the general consensus on the G80 M3 is this:
i) The controversial grill is growing on most people (key word being "most").
ii) S58 engine is the highlight of the G-series.
iii) Most M fans consider it to be too big and heavy for an M3, but just fine as a new-old school M5 (circa E39)
iv) Steering is very numb compared to key rivals. This is the most frequent complaint I've heard, but there are mods like suspension alignment, monoball front arm bushings (such as those from Dinan) and CSL flash tune steering that can fix this issue, but then it raises the question of why a performance car needs the aftermarket to fix it's shortcomings (i.e. do the manufacturer's homework) when rivals do it better from the factory?
v) Chassis and suspension tune are great, but not enough to overcome the numb steering.
The interior is so good, maybe better than most base model porsches, well besides the gauge cluster
and the nut cups.. LOL
@@mfujii1318 nut cups? yeah, the cluster is horrid.
@@KuostA the little thing between ur legs, awful.
The steering comment was spot on. I have driven the F80 and the G80 and the steering is so stale in there, very little feed back and turning just feels so rubbery.
I daily an 01 GS430 on coilovers and other suspension mods (not exactly a sports car) but I found even that cars steering to be miles better. Such a shame since the powertrain on this is out of this world.
Also I hated the cluster so much 😂. Wanted to rip the silly laptop screen out of there. Extreme overkill, way way too much going on there, graphics all over the place.
Overall you can’t complain about anything else though. The car is an animal. I will never forget the power on it, and despite the lack of feel, it was so agile and grips so well. My jaw was dropped driving it, but the steering was such a sharp contrast to the rest of the package. An absolutely amazing car nonetheless!
Seeing these reviews make me happy with my purchase. I understand the numbness and engagement but nobody can show me another NEW manual, rwd performance sedan on this level. Porsche is the only other similarly priced option for that type of drive. This car is still so much fun to drive and dravit grey is amazing.
What about CT4/5 Blackwing?
@@Gurka84 base price is significantly higher. ~20k. They were also marking them up ridiculously. I know a lot of folks aren’t fans of the m3 look but the black wing is not a good looking car to me.
@@kentao4 BW isn’t too pretty but there are no big fouls like that M3 front grill. Anyway many think it’s the best driving sedan in this segment, the most engaging and fun.
@@Gurka84 the grill grew on me and now I like it. I just don’t like Cadillac long term. Interior is also blah. I like all the tech BMW now has. It’s a better package for cheaper
What a timely video. I have a 2023 M4 manual and I’m looking to replace it. I have very similar sentiments as you. It’s a competent and fast car, but I’ve just never formed that connection. I’ve never parked it and looked back.
Time for a Giulia QV
I almost got an M4 but I got an RCF and I could never get rid of it. I stand in my garage sometimes and just admire it sometimes lol. Do you feel there’s a reason you couldn’t form a connection? I’d love to have a G82 as well.
@@2URLexHa! I have an LC500 coupe (a 2018 I’ve had since new) and that’s probably ruining a lot of the M4 for me. That LC is freaking ART.
Man I felt this. I’ve gotten rid of so many cars because I just never cared to look back
@@CapELarry damn right it is lol nothing will ever be like it. Especially since our V8 production has finished.
Hi F, I checked in with you last September about the Integra Type-S, I ended up buying the BMW G80 M3 base manual without the bucket seats. I am loving it so far with the 🚗. Glad to see you made a review on the G80 manual.
This is my current dream car, I want one so bad!
Tanzanite blue G80 is love
Best color for this car.
I agree with your thoughts on the G80 manual. One of my friends is lucky enough to have G80 manual and CT5 blackwing, so I drove both and what a difference in engagement. The G80 feels sterile in comparison, but I will say I feel there’s a different character with the competition version vs the manual (in terms of sheer capability and competence). Like the car is optimized for automatic.
Regardless, I’ve been turned off by BMW M almost entirely (I used to be a fanboy when I had E90 330 lol).
You know as well as I do. Ain’t nothing like a BMW
Hell yes throwing MCS on an already excellent chassis, thing's gotta be a BEAST on track
With the TCS dial 1-10, available with DCS off, you can control the amount of slip allowed. With the dial at 9-10 it won't let you overwhelm the tires. It's a much more digital experience and relies little on steering feel. With time behind the wheel you can begin to understand how the car behaves at varying levels of TCS, there is no emphases on feeling.
Amazing how much better the G80 looks with just a few mods. New grills, lowered and its like a new car.
Can’t imagine trusting SPL arms with a car that heavy. People are having issues with the lighter GR86 and this thing weighs another 1000lbs.
I was on a Rally last year in my manual G80 and a Ferrari 458 was behind me all moving. When we pulled over for lunch, the 458 driver came up to me and said “that thing rips!! I had to really push it to keep up with you”
the g80 is way faster than a 458
They make 470 rwhp with 93 octane, not the Cali 91 octane.
love the hips on these things. wish the 4vBW had the same flares...the aftermarket mid pipe options really open these babies up to a better experience. but in general there shouldn't be much of any complaints at this price point.
Which one would you say is more fun to drive between this M3 and a manual MK5 Supra, as well as an Integra Type S and FL5 Civic Type R ?
GR Supra is more playful than G80 due to its size and weight. Also has the better manual shift feel. Hard to compare FR vs FF driving dynamics since it's so dependent on how much you value power oversteer. But I'd say Supra is the most fun of all 4.
I had both an a91 manual Supra alongside a g80 m3cx, both completely stock. I couldn’t believe how much more connected I felt in the M3, even with steering. Of course the Supra felt better around tight, twisty stuff but the g80 was superior to me.
@@Zygrene Wow okay thanks for the feedback, and if money isn't a factor which one out of all of them would you prefer to have as your main car?
@@nlxsteve Yeah that makes sense seeing as it was the CX.
Car looks ugly 🤮
What does your plate mean? GTP? Great car and video! Looking forward to my g80
Yeahh I mean in todays economy if you're spending that kinda money on a sedan it needs to be able to be comfortable and hit the track
Any thoughts on how it compares to the M2. They should be basically be identical driving cars but I had a lot more fun driving the M2 for some reason, but appreciate the added practically practicality of the M3 and having 4 doors and useable back seats.
Would you say your Type S is more fun and engaging to drive and feels more connected than the g80?
Nice car.
Great review, thank you.
Is it OK if I hang onto my FL5 Type R?😊
Setting money aside, would you trade your ITS for this? In terms of fun.
The S58 has nothing on that Aprilia V4 in front of you! But it is still pretty incredible
Honestly I saw a super sick one yesterday, was like a dark red, did the yellow lights up front and lowered it was tolerable 😂 🐰
Ángeles crest. You can keep up with those guys but not my guys. 😅. Great video btw
Great video per usual! Disappointed by the sound.. seems he has active sound coded off but to my ears this sounds way worse than the F80 (which nobody said sounded good). Sounds like forza.
I love the front of this car.
I do too. Can't really understand all the hate. It looks nice and aggressive to me.
Nice review!
I'd take the RS3 for the daily
I'm considering an m3 comp as my next daily to replace my integra type s as a daily once the used ones come down in price. Thoughts? I'm considering m3, RCF or maybe even a lc500 since I'll have a GX by that point
Car companies should bring back the hydraulic steering.
For reals. I wonder what in the world they were thinking. Seems like it's either a cost saving measure or saving 0.1 of fuel. Either way, it seems really misplaced in a sporty car
@@TheChannel1978its not actually. Its for the lane keeping tech.
I love mine
Insane car for the money
Beautiful review. One question, why not opt for xdrive when you can change it to be RWD only?
you cant get the manual with the xdrive
I prefer the ct4 v blackwing over the g80. Although the rear is so beluga whale.
I wish the CT4-V BW had a better engine and interior
@@Zygreneagree they should've put Ct5 Engine in without supercharger at least
IMHO, The blackwing engine is perfectly fine when it’s evaluated without the notion of “it should have been a v8”.
It feels naturally aspirated, revs out decently , doesn’t have turbo lag and has more than enough power for the road. Oh also flat foot shifting. Sounds mid though.
Why ct4 when the ct5 is around 90k just like the g80.
The manual feels better and V8 sounds world better also the magnetic shocks are amazing.
@@ramanapixelxl7572 V8 feel is more important. if you want actual performance numbers, the tunable BMW motors provide more value.
this is part of why the Camaro SS 1LE is so beloved, despite being fairly slow in a straight line in stock form
Is it wrong that I actually like how these things look nowadays. I saw an Isle of Man green m3 the other day and it looked spectacular.
Can't believe it but I agree. Especially when the car is lowered a bit with a wider track.
I mean, you're entitled to like what you like. However, I think truly great designs don't need to "grow" on you and they aren't dependent upon certain colors to look good. Great designs are immediately apparent and striking in all the right ways. These things are "striking" in the same way Batman's Tumbler is "striking." I wouldn't call it pretty.
Nope. Still look ugly IMO. I live in LA where you see a bunch of these in all colors. Stock or modified with even the Adro front bumper they still look ugly. Great driving car for sure but definitely not something I'd look back at after parking
no you are not wrong. i hated the debut but it grew on me. picked one up in 22
I quickly got used the grilles on their own, but they don't match the rest of the car. Not a looker overall
I assume you're looking for a cts v blackwing
You could a brand new Mustang GT manual for 60k and it’s almost 500 to the wheel.. so there’s one.
Where did he get the suede boot for the manual shifter??
how do you feel about no Driving Assistant Professional with these cars?
Your car selection, driving and analytical perspective is elite. Only thing missing is a dash of charisma for some Channel identity. A 90 sec intro over topic and location might be able to inject some audience bonding with you the host.
Such an incredible car but I can’t get past that big ugly screen. Why couldn’t they integrate it into the dash more? Ugh
“High end suspension” zooms in on basic zip ties lol.
Go drive a 911 then talk about “super sharp and super precise “
I just can't forgive it's face AND the digital gauge cluster. Both will age very poorly.
Front looks ugly AF. I’ll keep my e46 m3 for life
It’s “its”
“Very high end suspension” held together with zip ties
Love that this is still available in a stick, but to answer your question of where else can you get a daily usable sedan with a manual and around that level of performance: CT5-V Blackwing. It would be hard to choose between the two I think
Rs3 8y rather, cheaper and still lot or fun.
Compare that to an alfa giulia qv
MT > AT
I own the '21 G80 6MT. If one drives with "Gear Shift Assistant," they are practically driving an automatic lol
Is this Grigio Telesto?
If anyone wants to buy a G80 on MCS in socal lmk 😂 I got a clean comp with MCS AND spl
Lmao I can vouch for Chris that he has a sick car
too much drone for a daily D: otherwise this is a great machine!
what road is this?
Can anyone tell what colour this is?
G80 is the best m5. Great great dd.
3700 lbs 🤯 did I hear the right?!
The new M5
@@iceberglounge the E39 M5 weighs 3950 lbs... this M3 is still lighter
Given the numb handling and all that leak of spiritedness of driving this car I stand for a wagon. For a grocery getter all these downers are forgivable since expectations are nowhere comparing to coupe. So yeas I think the only m3 that’s really worth it is wagon. If you wanna spirited driver you need to look for old school car
looks like a god damn boat
Sorry but the 2024 Model 3 Performance takes the cake for that. 10's quarter mile and 2.9sec 0-60 for sub 50k
a lot of F80 guys dont like to hear it but the g80 is just better in every way. only negative is the grill (which is subjective)
A faster car but a very disconnected one… I sold mines after half a year.
Road Name Plsss?
Angeles Crest
@@Unicornpirate Thanks, I thought this is somewhere in Bay Area😭
@@royaltyallen1162its not, its near LA.
⭐️🎤🔥
100k 😂😂😂 that is funny
definitely the toothiest
bro driving an m3 but zero aura. #skull
Lee Barbara Taylor Kevin Lewis Eric
The engine surprisingly sounds like meh.
This car is not the best or fastest at anything. Last Gen corvettes are cheaper, made faster laptimes and are more reliable. The minute the warranty runs out the BMW will fall apart
oink
Shit. I’m used to the ugliness lol
*aftermarket zip tied suspension, i leld*
*btw f80 is a dog. G80 is better in all aspects even in looks, bigger pig nostrils ftw, better air intake/cooling and aethetics*
@zygrane, I have a question. You may be able to help.
I have an IS500. I love the engine and its built quality. That said, I am missing a manual.
Any suggestions?
I can do ITS, CTR, M2 and potentially Supra (no back seats).
Any suggestions on a used market. 🤦🏼♂️
I do not know anymore.
I even thought about RC-F Track Edition, I know it too is an automatic, but I was curious if its uniqueness would get me over the lack of manual.
I had the IS500 LE for 8 months, was so freaking bored by it. RC-F track drives pretty much the same, like a damn boat.
@@LateNightDateNightprobably driver error on your behalf. My RCF has the TVD and is incredible in any situation. Even better with enhanced LCA bushings to deal with its weight.
Did you replace timing chain on this german garbage?😂
Great video mate💪
Is there anyway i could get your email?
Would love to send you something!
Your driving is a bit cringe …. You look very uncomfortable behind the wheel