How the INEOS Grenadier will Change Outback Towing. First Drive & Specs
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- Опубліковано 14 лют 2023
- Firstly, we tried to find a random trailer to tow-test the Grenadier. The problem was the event staff outnumbered the Press at the global launch of the hot-topic 4WD so try as we might, no mischievous plan got us what we really need to know - how does it tow? So call this a vehicle review, not a tow test but bear with us as the specs alone should have those of us looking to lug a heavy trailer around Australia interested.
For more tow tests, check out our channel and for in-depth caravan reviews and expertise head to caravan.hemax.com - Авто та транспорт
Hi all - We failed maths at school and made some mistakes (thanks to everyone that pointed them out). The table near the start is wrong but we can't update the video. This link - caravan.hemax.com/News/14649/FIRST_DRIVE_AND_TOW_SPECS__INEOS_GRENADIER - will take you to the written review with (hopefully) correct data. Thanks!
Best review I have seen of the Grenadier yet, well done!
Very well articulated, presented and concise. Well done!l
Magic video well done
super nice car INEOS Grenadiers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🚙🚙🚙🚙🚙🚙👍👍👍👍👍👍
It’s a super solid beast.
Great video. I’m ordering my trailmaster diesel.
Great review Tim, thank you. Will be interested to hear what you think about the petrol Fieldmaster, as I have one on order
I went to Scotland expecting to hate the petrol, but I preferred it. If you tow occasionally, I reckon it's the better engine with more top-end grunt and a slightly more refined cruise
I actually want one now.
And I can't agree more about the 70 series
Hi are you doing a towing test ?
Great video cheers
Dave
hahahahahhah if and when it ever comes. To be honest at this rate this thing is DOA - another credible review from the geniuses at Caravan world... LOL.
Well, this idiotic comment didn't age well.
My problem is, have the plastic bits bmw make use of in place of metal been replaced .Thermometer,boost pipe ,charge pipes ,hose pipe connections ,o rings,impellers ,coolant reservoirs , intake manifolds
Damn , that sucks !!! 😕
You like the lack of left foot driver … side foot space for long drives and any drive with the pipes below bulging up. They could have got that right.
I like the car still I would also like some alterations. Improvements.
There is already an aftermarket fuel tank available. Australian made. Not sure what the increase is though. As for the BMW engine. After a recent trip to Perth and back towing both ways I wouldn’t go near that V6 300 series. No one we spoke to in one was having a good time. In line 6 all the way for me.
Hopefully doubles it
There’s no long range fuel tank available yet
Just wanted to question you on your weights table. I believe your payloads left after a 350kg ball weight towing 3500kg are wrong. I haven't checked all of the vehicles though. As an example you spoke about the 300 Sahara. When towing 3500kg with a 6750 GCM the balance left for the car is 3250kg. The ball weight moves onto this weight making 3600kg, it also comes off the van. The result is more than the cars GVM so it cannot be that heavy when towing. Therefore the GVM is the limiting factor. If the car isn't going to go over it's GVM the ball weight and car weight must not be over 3280kg. If you take 350kg from the GVM it leaves 2930kg. This is the maximum the car can weigh before adding the ball weight. Therefore the payload left with the 350kg ball weight is 2930kg minus the kerb weight of 2630kg leaving only 300kg of payload not tge 420kg you said and had written down. I assume all your other payloads are wrong in that last column too. Some cars are limited with GCM and others with the GVM. I have recently done these calculations for over a dozen tow vehicles and most don't have much payload. For example the old 200 series has a payload left of about 370kg depending upon the model.
I want one
You missed on BIG competitor the current Defender. Also what are the axle load weights?
Hi which would you pick not towing ? A lot of touring and desert trips
Good question. The petrol is smoother and has more go but it's a touch thirsty. Definitely a Trialmaster for the excellent difflocks and BFG tyres plus raised intake.
@@CaravanWorldMagazine did you get any fuel figures not towing ?
@@kromey111 Not over big enough distances to report confidently on.
Two seat four door wagon (wish it had a longer wheelbase in this guise) in mid spec with just the basic options, is already over $115,000 and that’s before stamp duty, which was around $5,000 for a similarly priced LC200. It does look good but as usual, once it makes it to Oz they price it as high as they can and this price is despite the two tax breaks they get for having a 3,550 GVM ! All it does, is make the LC 300 GXL with a GVM upgrade look like great value.
My opinion for what’s it’s worth is that I doubt that Ineos will be able to keep up with demand in Australia!
I think they have done a very good job on the Grenadier, although at the end of the day judgement will come after 400,000km of hard off road work in Australia. How will it measure up to competitors? My guess is, and I really hope I'm wrong, not very well. I'm not interested in what "test" cars have done, the real world is very different. Comfort is relative, when it comes to getting yourself out of a tricky situation comfort is way down on the list. If comfort is your key criteria for off road vehicle selection then good luck to you.
If the test is "400,000 km of hard off-road work in Australia" and that is the market they are selling to, then it is tiny indeed. Very few people will use the Grenadier for the rugged usage that many imagine is what Land Rover has deserted. Farmers, miners, forestry, and utility providers went elsewhere a long time ago even before the so called original Defender was christened
i totally agree with you about comfort ,i ran an old style Td5 defender on my farm for 17 years from new sold it at 190,000 miles ,all the car magazines slated it about comfort ,i thought it was great and perfectly adequate as a working vehicle ,it was certainly a lot more comfortable to drive than my Hyundai car and for a change for a landrover was very reliable considering where i took it and how roughly it was used ,deep mud in fields feeding cattle ,heavy towing and chasing cattle ,the grenadier is designed to work and be off road it is not a bmw m sport
@Mahn England They seem to be positioning the Grenadier in the heavy duty segment, really now only occupied by Landcruisers where 400ks is not considered extraordinary mileage. If not the heavy duty segment then they will have an awful lot of competition. The point is if these things require a lot of engine and transmission work at 250k then they will get a reputation for fragility pretty quickly. I shudder to think about someone working on a BMW engine. There is a lot of hype surrounding the Grenadier, which for some people creates high expectations, let's see what happens. Seems to me to be more of a rehash of early Range Rovers.
The new LC300 won’t see 400,000km mate
This is what the new Defender should have been! Why didn’t Landrover listen! Well done Grenadier.....
So where - exactly- do you see the Granadier being superior to the new Defender?
@@scandinavia6271 cost,reliability ,aesthetics ,it will be purchased by the military,police,rescue services and farming industries.Cant see a farmer putting a couple of sheep in the back of the new defender somehow!
@@kevinrichards8119
1: Cost: The Grenadier is an expensive car - it’s pretty close to a base Defender and much more expensive than “Farmer vehicles” like Ford Ranger, Isuzu, etc. Cost of ownership can only be speculated..
2: Reliability: How can you judge reliability on the Grenadier, when they haven’t been able to deliver one yet!? Btw: JLR’s reputation for bad reliability happened when they put BMW drive trains in their cars…
3: Aestetics: To me the grenadier looks antiquated with a body design from last century. It claims to be “old school manual” but still have fancy electric Recaro seats, touch screen and auto gear box, etc..
The tests so far proves the Grenadier as inferior to the new defender in terms of on-road ride quality and off-road capability (specifically ground clearance and wading)
I don’t have any sheep’s - but may buy a few to test your claim when I can afford my new Defender 😉 Meanwhile, I am happy with my 7 year old RR - I can actually fit a couple of dead wild hogs in it when I go hunting I Sweden. 👍😃
@@scandinavia6271 ok ,you win ....best wishes from Wales 🏴
@@kevinrichards8119 it’s not about winning - it’s all in the dialogue. All the best to you as well 👍😉
Any thoughts on the petrol version?
Loved it. I’m in the process of writing the review and one thing I’m grappling with is whether the diesel is the right pick in Aus. I didn’t tow with either but drove both. The petrol was the better unhitched drive.
@@tvanduyl thank you.
I’m hoping to keep the car a long time and have opted for the petrol.
It looks too good to be true. It’s like a better version of the 70 series
i wish this was available in India
Did you use the maximum tow ball weight of each vehicle as mentioned on the compliance plate? Some vehicles do not allow the 350kg for towbar weight, even some can incur more of a reduction. While I'm here, if ya tow a 3.5t van you don't need to have 350kg on the towbar. 150kgs is enough.
super sir😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
I'm keeping my 10 year old d
LR Discovery 3, with it's 2.7 litres V6 Diesel, air suspension, ZF gearbox etc.
Best tow vehicle ever seen, because of the low gearing for maneuvring and the very tight turning circle
7 leather seats, ...
Super comfortable.
They go for around 8 to 10 k € used here
I wonder how these will go on Aussie cattle stations as a work vehicle.
1.8 million miles across how many vehicles? If there's 20 prototypes, that's an average 90k each.
How about the compliance of the recirculating ball steering and response while towing?
Important Note re Payload: Diesel Trialmaster variant only has 689kg Unhitched payload resulting in only 339kg Useable Payload (350kg ball weight) not 610kg useable as per Caravan World graph depicts.
I had placed a reservation fee as I was very keen on Grenadier Trialmaster primarily for towing offroad however have obtained a refund since driving one and speaking first hand to Australian Ineos Representatives at the test drive regards payload figures.
As I particularly wanted the Trialmaster variant as it comes with the locking front and rear differentials and dual battery system standard from the factory, Ineos Reps advised I needed to refer to the UK brochure for payload ratings. Why? Because the Australian brochure does not break up the Grenadier variants i.e diesel basic 5 seat Wagon or the Trialmaster or the Belstaff but the UK brochure does.
Problem is each different variant is fitted which different options which affect the payload, and this isn’t reflected in the AU brochure only in the UK brochure. Hence as stated above if you want the Trialmaster variant with the locking diffs and dual battery system payload drops to 689kg payload 90% fuel and liquid capacity (no driver).
Price ???
There is an online configurator here - ineosgrenadier.com/en/au/the-vehicle/vehicle-configurator. It has pricing.
Unhitched payload is 885 kg, minus 350kg towball weight gives you 535kg usable payload with 350kg ball weight, not 685kg as you say.
For Petrol, 810 - 350 = 460 for Diesel
That at least 200kg better than the LC300
I love when this came out years ago I was so damn excited as the US never received defenders or 70 series Land cruisers. But damn I'm so disappointed when they first Proudly stated a starting 40k USD ......and every year goes up 10k they promote this and that. I can buy a 2023 lc70 2 door manual for 37k from UAE , pay the VAT, IMPORT, Tax, container fees and all that shit PLUS put a fully built Cummins 5.9 and STILL have 30 grand left to buy/build a custom Overland trailer.......I mean come on man 90-100k? And that's before you buy EXTREAMLY custom attachments because so few aftermarket parts are available you are either stupid wealthy and just have to be that Rich guy to show off or be completely idiotic when you could buy something far less and build it far more capable and custom to you. Good luck
Great....about time they starting making vehicles for what they are intended for....but the price....these will make lc300 look like good value....I just can't justify spending this kind of money on a car that will only be lucky to have half the things u need
90ltr fuel tank is no good (amongst other things) in Australia especially when going remote.
Jerry cans are made that just clip-on the sides of the truck.
@@markrainford1219 I know. Still not enough in some places
How is it that the new Defender is not included in your comparison? It fared quite well in towing, on- and off-road here: ua-cam.com/video/hJvr_jFYadA/v-deo.html
Are you possibly afraid of the results in a head to head? 😛
Why would someone be afraid of seeing that?
The new defender isn't reliable enough to be included in the discussion.
Under $100k ? In Australia? Doubtful 🤨
Major automakers think that the more styling their vehicles would be, people would more incline to them. But, even in 2023, they didn't realize, the real car-guys just fall in love again and again with the basic, traditional, old-school design.
Has anyone actually got one yet?
No
Australian deliveries are meant to start in May.
But, we shall see.
The ETA keeps getting delayed !
BMW x5 isn’t a reliable vehicle, I had to involve fair trading for a brand new vehicle. Hope the new engines are better
Let me think ?
A new Indian Defender made in Slovakia or a French vehicle with a very suspect German engine ?
Both as British as a Germann Mini or a Chinese MG.
The Mini is produced in Britain though.
Strikes me they are building these for review companies, and making genuine original customers wait for there deliveries, thats why I cancelled our families Grenadier after waiting a year for delivery, not good
Ask anyone who has owned a late model BMW out of warranty about the long life of BMW engines. The fundamental internals may be ok, but everything that hangs off of them is designed to last the length of the warranty. Those engines will be the downfall once these get decent kilometres on them.
As opposed to failing DPFs on LC200s?
@@gerritvr4 really? Are you seriously trying to compare the long reliability of a 200 series to any BMW engine made in the last 30 years? You are extremely shaky ground there. And I have to say this is the first I have ever heard of 20 series having any endemic issues with their DPFs. No doubt there are failures but it is hardly a reputed weak point. It hardly compares to the litany of plastic parts used on all modern BMW engines causing failures time and time again.
Send me one today! ,for free!😊
how the eff is a new defender not in your comparison..... jesus it blows the toyotas out of the water
Absolutely inaccurate info !
The table with Payloads etc is wrong !
Usable payload figure is incorrect.
At GVM, less 350 kg Towball Down Weight, leaves u very little Payload.
LC 300 can’t be at its GVM, and still tow 3.5 tonne, because this puts it over GCM.
Patrol can be at GVM and still tow 3.5 tonne.
No mention of LR Disco & Defender which can also be at GVM, and still tow 3.5 tonne.
Max torque with the BMW diesel motor is 550 nm
Disco and Defender offer D300 motor with 650 nm.
This guy says that Grenadier is good value at under $ 100 k
Utility version is
2 seater only
Base model is $ 97 k
Plus options & On Roads
Station Wagon is a
5 seater
Base model is $ 98 k
plus options & On Roads…
I doubt anybody would not pick any options, so at least $ 110 k on road.
Next model option is the
Fieldmaster
Which has a List Price of
$ 10 k more…
This journo is totally clueless… 🤷🏻♂️
No safety features such as
AEB
Blind Spot Monitoring
RCTA
Lane Keep Assist
Lane Departure Warning
Etc. Etc.
Is a massive fail…
I'm sorry but how is a BMW engine and BMW transmission reliable? 😂😂 no thanks I'll stick to my Toyota.
😂😂😂😂Toyota is using this same engine. BMW is number 1 right now. B58 engine is JD powers number 1 powertrain right now. Bulletproof!
@@Jm8126-5 I have yet to see anything new and german actually reliable
As promising as the Grenadier may look, this 'will be, will be' is getting annoying, because unless it gets into customers' hands, it won't be anything other than a fantasy that failed to become reality.
This will go into production. Sad they are not offered in poor countries like india and african ones and if they survive in africa or india,then they are good. The roads and traffic are horrible. The worst of any country.
It’s being produced. It just takes a long time to build a car company from scratch while developing an all new global production car.
@oriondoublecrossed - they are being offered in Kenya. I believe they already have a dealership here
Your numbers don’t add up mate. Need to do your maths again
Can we get in US? Nope...so F24K off!
NO SAFETY CRASH TESTING !!!!😳
The Grenadier is built like a tank, so it will self evidently be safer than most vehicles on the road.
It will probably be tested after it's released. The vehicle is designed by Magna Steyr who designed the Mercedes G-Wagon, it weighs 2,740 kg/6,040lbs and has airbags for the front and rear passengers so I'm sure it is safer than most vehicles on the road.
Waste of time no towing !!!
ua-cam.com/video/dTcSRFjsVT8/v-deo.html *cough
Very sorry mate I’ve given thumbs up and subscribed
Went for a defender - Jim Ratcliffe lobbied for Brexit and quit Britain for Monaco for tax reasons. Goes against my principles to buy your product!
Outback touring, really? I live in Western Australia with some of the most isolated roads in Australia, where you can be a long way from a dealer. Why should anyone risk taking a car outback without local dealerships with backup spares. Are you also expecting to take this vehicle off road in the isolated outback solo and with no support, even fully kitted out with all the spares and tools I wouldn't risk it.
I own one and have done a couple of solo trips here in the WA outback . These things are tanks. And the local dealer has been very good.
Made by a huge Brexiteer in France!
Abandoned Wales!