Speeds are definitely different chrono to chrono. My prochrono reads slow compared to the new garmin. Doing my sight tapes the garmin seems spot on. Nice thing is that you use the same chrono for all your tests which does compare apples to apples. Keep up the good work!
@podiumarcher I am absolutely loving all your videos and can't wait to see what's next but I would also love to see reviews on Athens archery I think they might have a good bow this year and would love to see your take on them and also I would like to see you doing reviews on the new OMP Phoenix fletching jig and the OMP Tru alignment laser and thank you so much for everything you are doing for archery and sharing your knowledge with all of us
wrt IBO speed and measured speed: yes, the weight of the arrow may be the same, however, we don't know the fletching and the arrow diameter the manufacturer used for their speed tests. If they used the thinnest arrow available, and a minimalistic fletching, e.g., 3 x 1.5" vanes with zero offset (or no vanes at all????), then of course this arrow will be faster compared to a 3 x 2" Blazer fletching with 1.5 degree offset and maybe a slightly thicker arrow. It's in the interest of the manufacturer that he optimises the speed test results, so he will likely build the fastest arrow possible for those testing....
For people asking about the hand held draw weight scale, I find they read about 2 pounds heavier than the draw board scale, both sold by LCA. We tried drawing slower on the handheld, and it read the same. The draw board scale reads a lower weight when we crank slower.
Just a left field thought here, but has the draw weight scale been checked for accuracy? It seems that these latest PSE bows are either running very "hot" out of the factory (e.g. 74lbs for a 70lb rated bow) or maybe the draw weight scale is reading high. I know that bow weights are mostly a little exaggerated towards the lighter end but if the 4.5lb bow weight was correct but came in 0.2lbs high using that scale then the scale would be reading about 4% high. If this is the case it would mean that when the scale is reading 70lb draw weight the bow would actually only be about 67.5lbs
Can you please do a review of the Easton FMJ T-64 arrows? I think they’re a really interesting idea but I’m not sure how good the idea is in practice. Would love to hear your two cents regarding them!
You have to take the actual chrono numbers with a grain of salt. I agree with you its the consistency of numbers. Comparing the "numbers" from one bow to another will show you one is slower than the other. This still looks like a solid offering from PSE.
I trust your testing! I've always shot 60-65 pounds 28.5-29"DL depending on the draw cycle, so for me the advertised FPS is just sort of a guide. I see your point with the vibration but again it's a starting point. To me it seems like it's the nature of the beast that all of the manufatures try to tame. Once all of the bows you've tested are outfitted for TAC/3D or a hunt they'll all feel different. I don't want a bomb going off in my hand but also I want may arrow to land behind my pin. I would like to know in your opinion is there certain cam in the PSE line up that work better for a specific DL. If I got the S2 I'd be towards the top of the module adjustment would that be my best option? I really enjoy your videos, Thank you!!
@@02firehawk555 so in other words it’s just marketing hype. I find it very peculiar that they are so obtuse about it. When I asked the PSE reps at TAC about it I basically got blank stares and no explanation. I shot PSE a couple years ago and fluff like this makes me think I won’t be shooting one again for quite some time.
Have you ever tried to use an Archery Design scale. It uses a much more accurate load cell to determine poundage. I have 3 different LC archery scales and I have found out that all 3 were off by 2 to 3 pounds, and I even calibrated them with the appropriate weight. It might explain why the bows in your videos are always so far under specs. Today I tested my Mathew’s V3X. With archery design I got 69.9lbs with the LCA I got 72.7lbs. Just a thought maybe the numbers would be closer with a more accurate load cell measuring device.
Hey MFJJ I got a quick question before I spend the money to find out they don’t fit. Easton 4MM titanium inserts, will they fit the black eagle X-impact. Can’t find anything on whether they will fit as black eagles X-impact are .165 inner diameter. If you can give me feedback on this it would be greatly appreciated !! Thanks
Since the speeds are consistent across all models, I would guess the chronograph PSE used was optimistic, like a green Caldwell upright model, the cheap one. The upside down Caldwell (also more expensive by 3x ish) you're using is more accurate in my opinion.
....maybe someone can enlighten me: .... my experience is that the vibrations depend strongly on the position of the string dampener, e.g., Bowtech stats in their manuals that the string should touch the dampener, and they ship their bows with the string literally sitting in the dampener. Now if I would adjust the position of the dampener that a credit card just fits between the string and the dampener the impact on vibrations would be a dramatic change from no vibration at all to very noticeable vibrations. And that's the case for most of the bows (no matter what brand) out there. Therefore, IMO, your assessments about the vibrations without further investigation and information of string dampener position and the potential impact of changing this position is just an anecdotal observation without real merits. Nothing wrong with this, but I bet a lot of guys use these "vibration results" at face value when indeed differences may only be caused by variation of the gap between string dampener and string.
We set all the string suppressors the same to begin with. Riser design, cam design have a lot to do with vibration. My results are accurate. If you actually compare some of these bows at the same time you will likely find the same
@@podiumarcher3447 thanks for the feedback - if the gap between string dampener and string is always the same then I correct myself and agree that it has merits. What is your recommendation for the position / gap? ...."digging" into the dampener like the Bowtech when they get shipped? ....just touching? ....or a credit card thick gap between string and dampener? ....or???
If I remember right in order to get IBO numbers you can actually go up two plus pounds on the draw plus arrow can be two-plus grains less.... If you look into a little bit you will find what I mean..
Is it possible that they are posting the speeds with 80# limbs? Instead of the 70# limbs. It seems like if they were true you might be 1-5 fps off rather than 14fps.
@@caliopie86 The speeds posted on PSE's website are listed as the ATA/IBO speed ratings so they can't be using a higher draw weight. Of course not many bows come close to their IBO speed rating but these latest PSEs seem below average in the results which is surprising because normally PSE bows are pretty good on the real world speeds.
Thank you.
Speeds are definitely different chrono to chrono. My prochrono reads slow compared to the new garmin. Doing my sight tapes the garmin seems spot on. Nice thing is that you use the same chrono for all your tests which does compare apples to apples. Keep up the good work!
Come on PSE, thanks for the review.
I got to shoot this bow last week. I enjoyed shooting it.
I trust your numbers it the same thing in racing we change the cars to qualify you couldn't run them for 10 laps that way but you get big numbers
Can you please do a 2023 shootdown pro video!? I love the longer ATA idea and their posted speeds seem very exciting!!!
continue doing what your doing, always great info.
@podiumarcher I am absolutely loving all your videos and can't wait to see what's next but I would also love to see reviews on Athens archery I think they might have a good bow this year and would love to see your take on them and also I would like to see you doing reviews on the new OMP Phoenix fletching jig and the OMP Tru alignment laser and thank you so much for everything you are doing for archery and sharing your knowledge with all of us
Any way you could do product review in Redline Torch bow site? Looks really solid.
I totally trust your testing. It would interesting to know why the manufacturers are able to get higher speeds. Thanks for the great videos.
Set up a fan on high blowing behind you towards your chronograph to help push that arrow. Lol.
wrt IBO speed and measured speed: yes, the weight of the arrow may be the same, however, we don't know the fletching and the arrow diameter the manufacturer used for their speed tests. If they used the thinnest arrow available, and a minimalistic fletching, e.g., 3 x 1.5" vanes with zero offset (or no vanes at all????), then of course this arrow will be faster compared to a 3 x 2" Blazer fletching with 1.5 degree offset and maybe a slightly thicker arrow. It's in the interest of the manufacturer that he optimises the speed test results, so he will likely build the fastest arrow possible for those testing....
@podiumarcher3447 could you review some of the top tier CBE sights. I like the idea of having metal sight tapes that are easy to change.
Ec2 cam e2 cam. Either had more issues than the other sgter a year that your shop has noticed.
Has customer service been good
Keep up the informative reviews!
These no nonsense tests are exactly what the industry needs. Please do bow build #2 and #3. I can't wait to see what you pick.
You know what I think about the speeds lie to compete. Sorry proff in the speeds
For people asking about the hand held draw weight scale, I find they read about 2 pounds heavier than the draw board scale, both sold by LCA. We tried drawing slower on the handheld, and it read the same. The draw board scale reads a lower weight when we crank slower.
When are you going to test the PSE Shootdown pro?
They have always made a pretty good product
Great review
Time to get a few obsession bows in there
Just a left field thought here, but has the draw weight scale been checked for accuracy? It seems that these latest PSE bows are either running very "hot" out of the factory (e.g. 74lbs for a 70lb rated bow) or maybe the draw weight scale is reading high. I know that bow weights are mostly a little exaggerated towards the lighter end but if the 4.5lb bow weight was correct but came in 0.2lbs high using that scale then the scale would be reading about 4% high. If this is the case it would mean that when the scale is reading 70lb draw weight the bow would actually only be about 67.5lbs
PSE does their ibo by LL mods set at 65% which is why the normal mods are low.
Would love to see a review of any of the APA Bows like the King Cobra DG or Black Mamba's
Can you please do a review of the Easton FMJ T-64 arrows? I think they’re a really interesting idea but I’m not sure how good the idea is in practice. Would love to hear your two cents regarding them!
I would appreciate a video of your favorite bows with the lowest amount of vibration while still maintaining speed.
Omnia
You have to take the actual chrono numbers with a grain of salt. I agree with you its the consistency of numbers. Comparing the "numbers" from one bow to another will show you one is slower than the other. This still looks like a solid offering from PSE.
Would love to see you guys bring in and test out Redline bow sights. Seems like a good company with some great customer service.
I love my redline
Video idea: how to get the most correction/forgiveness out of your arrow build.... field point build/fixed broadheads/expandable
I trust your testing! I've always shot 60-65 pounds 28.5-29"DL depending on the draw cycle, so for me the advertised FPS is just sort of a guide. I see your point with the vibration but again it's a starting point. To me it seems like it's the nature of the beast that all of the manufatures try to tame. Once all of the bows you've tested are outfitted for TAC/3D or a hunt they'll all feel different. I don't want a bomb going off in my hand but also I want may arrow to land behind my pin. I would like to know in your opinion is there certain cam in the PSE line up that work better for a specific DL. If I got the S2 I'd be towards the top of the module adjustment would that be my best option?
I really enjoy your videos, Thank you!!
Can you explain to me what the Full Draw Stability Technology is exactly? I can't find a definitive explanation of this anywhere.
Wider limb pocket
@@02firehawk555 so in other words it’s just marketing hype. I find it very peculiar that they are so obtuse about it. When I asked the PSE reps at TAC about it I basically got blank stares and no explanation. I shot PSE a couple years ago and fluff like this makes me think I won’t be shooting one again for quite some time.
@@raisingkane5486 cmon man it’s not that big of a deal, every company does it, shoot whatever you want to who cares about their marketing schemes
Anyone els notice Tim’s rattle can Bow in the back lol
I think we should Start a go fund me to get him a new chronograph!
BTW pse test speed with low letoff mods
Have you ever tried to use an Archery Design scale. It uses a much more accurate load cell to determine poundage. I have 3 different LC archery scales and I have found out that all 3 were off by 2 to 3 pounds, and I even calibrated them with the appropriate weight. It might explain why the bows in your videos are always so far under specs. Today I tested my Mathew’s V3X. With archery design I got 69.9lbs with the LCA I got 72.7lbs. Just a thought maybe the numbers would be closer with a more accurate load cell measuring device.
Hey MFJJ I got a quick question before I spend the money to find out they don’t fit. Easton 4MM titanium inserts, will they fit the black eagle X-impact. Can’t find anything on whether they will fit as black eagles X-impact are .165 inner diameter. If you can give me feedback on this it would be greatly appreciated !! Thanks
Since the speeds are consistent across all models, I would guess the chronograph PSE used was optimistic, like a green Caldwell upright model, the cheap one. The upside down Caldwell (also more expensive by 3x ish) you're using is more accurate in my opinion.
They probably shoot bareshafts and take those limb dampeners off
MFJJ. What do you think of the new Redline Torch bow sight??
When you changed the letoff did you change the module to be at 30”?
I understand that you use the same chorono and same release but have you tired a different one just curious
....maybe someone can enlighten me: .... my experience is that the vibrations depend strongly on the position of the string dampener, e.g., Bowtech stats in their manuals that the string should touch the dampener, and they ship their bows with the string literally sitting in the dampener. Now if I would adjust the position of the dampener that a credit card just fits between the string and the dampener the impact on vibrations would be a dramatic change from no vibration at all to very noticeable vibrations. And that's the case for most of the bows (no matter what brand) out there. Therefore, IMO, your assessments about the vibrations without further investigation and information of string dampener position and the potential impact of changing this position is just an anecdotal observation without real merits. Nothing wrong with this, but I bet a lot of guys use these "vibration results" at face value when indeed differences may only be caused by variation of the gap between string dampener and string.
We set all the string suppressors the same to begin with. Riser design, cam design have a lot to do with vibration. My results are accurate. If you actually compare some of these bows at the same time you will likely find the same
@@podiumarcher3447 thanks for the feedback - if the gap between string dampener and string is always the same then I correct myself and agree that it has merits. What is your recommendation for the position / gap? ...."digging" into the dampener like the Bowtech when they get shipped? ....just touching? ....or a credit card thick gap between string and dampener? ....or???
That looks like someone's rattle canned mathews on the couch lol .
I wonder why these bows are so much slower than the published ibo? I wonder if the two new Dudley bows will have the same results
If I remember right in order to get IBO numbers you can actually go up two plus pounds on the draw plus arrow can be two-plus grains less.... If you look into a little bit you will find what I mean..
They do it with low letoff mods at 65%
So is true PSE is having an affair with Hoyt she might be a red head😂😊
Is it possible that they are posting the speeds with 80# limbs? Instead of the 70# limbs. It seems like if they were true you might be 1-5 fps off rather than 14fps.
no they usually do it with Low let off mods or the fast mods on an EC cam at 65%
IBO speed is measured at 70lbs (350grain arrow @ 30" draw @ 70lbs)
@@Makka316 yes I’m aware but with speeds being 14-20fps slower wouldn’t that lean towards more draw weight?
@@02firehawk555 that must be the case with out adding draw weight.
@@caliopie86 The speeds posted on PSE's website are listed as the ATA/IBO speed ratings so they can't be using a higher draw weight. Of course not many bows come close to their IBO speed rating but these latest PSEs seem below average in the results which is surprising because normally PSE bows are pretty good on the real world speeds.
🤦🏽♂️ PSE once again failing to deliver the speed and smoothness of draw.
These companies are well known to try everything to cheat the numbers on their bows but simps are quick to jump on youtubers when they don’t match.
Is that tims ugly spray painted bow in that chair 😂😂
You mean the amazing work of art!?!?!