As I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: "TO THE UNKNOWN GOD." Who therefore has saved you as unknown is the same Jesus Christ I now proclaim to you. (Acts 17:23)
I think everyone gets it a little backwards! "Belief in Jesus", is an indicator, or proof that someone IS a child of God. Repentance makes us clean from the world. We are COG from the foundation of the world. So that when we see him, we know him. God's Children before Christ, looked forward to a Savior. God "winked at their ignorance". Men could always see the promise of the savior through nature, and be saved by hope. Ro. 1.20 The covenants are a way of sanctification in this life.
Why do you assume that sin is a moral infraction, rather than how Scripture describes it - as the measure of our fallenness… the extent to which we fail to reflect the glory of God in whose image we were created? If your understanding of ‘sin’ as a moral infraction were correct (and you’re not), then you would have to admit that Jesus were guilty of having committed and act of sin when he healed the blind man on the Sabbath (4th Commandment ) in John 9… Yet, Jesus was without sin (2Cor 5:21), only because he and the Father are one (Jhn 10:30) - as God incarnate, Christ is the perfect image bearer of the Father Biblically therefore, sin is not a moral condition, rather, it is an ontological reality And by implication, why do you assume that the Law is a moral imperative rather than how Scripture explains it - as God revealing something of himself to His own? The Law is neither a capricious nor is it an arbitrary set of rules as Euthyphro suggested - rather, it reveals something of the person of God to His own (Psm 145:17/Psm 119:182, Psm 31:5/Psm 119:142, Psm 25:8/Rom 7:12, Gen 21:33/Psm 111:7,8, 1Pet 1:16/Rom 7:12, 1Jhn 4:8/Rom 13:10, Mat 5:48/Psm 19:7, Jhn 4:24/Rom 7:14, Deut 32:4/Rom 7:12, 1Jhn 1:5/Prv 6:23…) “I gave them my decrees and made known to them my laws, by which the person who obeys them will live” - Ezekiel 20:11 Scholars tell us that the Law was given to Moses around 1446 BC, some 4,500 years AFTER God spoke everything into existence by the power of His word and well after sin first came into the world with the fall of Lucifer… Sin therefore was in the world looooong before the Law was given to Moses! The Law (as the measure of our fallenness) therefore does not CONVICT us for the things we do - rather, it EXPOSES us for what we are - SINNERS (Gal 3:24)! So, we are not sinners because we sin - rather, because we are sinners, we sin - BIIIIIIIG DIFFERENCE!!! What you are preaching, is nothing less than ‘bootstrap salvation’ which intends to subordinate the sovereignty of God to the ‘sovereignty of man’ - you deny the fact that salvation is entirely an act of God’s sovereign of grace, not because of anything we do (or do not do) lest we have cause to boast and so, deny God His glory - Rom 9:16!
I wish someone would answer this: What makes me better than the people before Christ that had no chance of salvation. What was the point of their living if they had no chance to be saved? Were they simply just pawns for the Gods plan?
Thanks for the question! We invite you to call in to our weekly broadcast to discuss your thoughts with Greg Koukl. He'd love to hear from you. Or you can submit an #STRask or Open Mic question. Visit www.str.org/broadcast for details.
Acts 24:15 says "There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous". This will be after Armageddon when paradise is restored on Earth. This period of 1,000 years is referred to as Judgement Day(Rev 20:1-3) This judgement is based on your behaviour, not by what you did before you died but by what you do during judgement day.(Rom 6:7) Basically it doesn't matter when or where you were born everyone throughout history will exist together in this 1000 year period and get the opportunity to benefit from Christ's Ransom Sacrifice.
Poor answer. Read Hebrews 11 where it gives examples of gentiles receiving a good report because of their faith in action. Read Romans 2 where gentiles without the law are said to have done God’s will because of their conscience and that the law was in their hearts, though they weren’t aware of it. In the OT, it was God judging the conscience that saved people. They went to the bosom of Abraham to await the day that Jesus would complete his task.
The word says that all of creation knows that there is God. Before Christ came in earthly form there was creation that showed the wonders of God. Through this you either believe or you don’t . Jesus Christ said men are without excuse.
I don't think people who ask questions like that really actually care about the salvation of gentiles or Amazonian tribes or people isolated on islands who never knew about Jesus or lived before the time of Jesus. So the question is disingenuous to begin with. What would the same people say about those who lived before penicillin, or who didn't have access to it because they were to remote? You know what they would say? Oh well. That sucks for them. On my merry way. The simple fact of the matter is that they don't care. They just want others to be hopeless like them. They want to assault the faith of the simple. They want to destroy people eternally by ripping them apart from their only means of salvation, and they will act any way and say anything in order to do it. I didn't really want to believe it was as John put it in his epistles, but I'm starting to see it now: They are of the spirit of anti-Christ. Perhaps it really is that simple. A few may just be confused here or there, but not most. Most just want to steal, kill, and destroy like their father the devil. The best thing a Christian can do is be separate from the world... easier said than done, unfortunately. I am not one of those "optimistic" Christians. I think that the vast majority of humanity is condemned. These times were God's last gesture of good will to Man. He gave man mass media, and He gave his message to the world, and it was right at the center of the whole darn thing so we couldn't miss it, and yet the world AGAIN rejected Him. It's not with a light heart that I say that. I want the best for everyone, but the reality is that most of the world is chaff, and chooses to be. Just look at it. Look at the mediocrity, and the failure to really take what's serious seriously. Instead, it's all just a song and a dance purely for show and empty and devoid of meaning. That's 99 percent of everyone right there. Why should God save a bunch of empty meaningless vessels who merely put on the show of being real people, but when push comes to shove, they have no real substance other than the animating force of knowing that they are going to die and be nothing? Of course those types of desolate beings will want to destroy your faith in something other than desolation, and of course they would want you to believe only in all their desolate works made of glorified dust. They hate you because YOU are real, fellow believer in Christ.What use does it do to pray for the salvation of dust clouds? Even some of my very best friends from my youth... some died by their own hands through either stupidity or self-hostility... and I found myself sad and praying for them, and then wondering whether it even mattered because obviously these certain people I viewed as real and important didn't even view themselves as real or important. They saw nothing to save. Perhaps it is because they never saw at all. They never spoke at all. They never heard at all. They never breathed a true breath at all.But maybe I mourn because I don't know and can't judge for sure... however, when I do finally meet Christ and he reveals everything to me, perhaps all the condemnation of the vast majority of the world will then be seen as righteous judgment, much like a bell in a crucible....when the bell has set to its final form, the crucible is destroyed.
Jesus came for the lost sheep, he then asked for his followers to go to the gentile nations to look for the original Israelites not gentiles. Jesus called a gentile women a dog because he was a Jew. That's what Jew's call all Gentiles Gowm. Yahweh is a jealous God but Christians say every day that there is only One God. How is he Jealous then? Why couldn't Yahweh say that those God's don't exist at all and are just an illusion of the mind?
numbers 15 nd if a stranger sojourn with you, or whosoever be among you in your generations, and will offer an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD; as ye do, so he shall do. 15One ordinance shall be bothfor you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojournethwith you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD. 16One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you. 17And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 18Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land whither I bring you, 19Then it shall be, that, when ye eat of the bread of the land, ye shall offer up an heave offering unto the LORD. 20Ye shall offer up a cake of the first of your dough for an heave offering: as ye do the heave offering of the threshingfloor, so shall ye heave it. 21Of the first of your dough ye shall give unto the LORD an heave offering in your generations. Offerings for Unintentional Sins 22And if ye have erred, and not observed all these commandments, which the LORD hath spoken unto Moses, 23Even all that the LORD hath commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day that the LORD commanded Moses, and henceforward among your generations; 24Then it shall be, if ought be committed by ignorance without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour unto the LORD, with his meat offering, and his drink offering, according to the manner, and one kid of the goats for a sin offering. 25And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance: 26And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.
@StormTrek Of course we rest in faith and hope. We haven't attained it. We have it by the promise of God. It's his work. Best accomplished when we turn ourselves over to Him. AND you mean the Jews trust their linage to Abraham. not Adam. Abraham showed and confessed he also rested/believed in the promise of God. So that even if he killed his son. God would still fulfill His promise to make him father of many nations. Yes, we are justified by faith in Christ. So I'd say we agree.
If you read the Old Testament you have always had gentiles. When God made the covenant with Abraham that is when the Jews from the line of Abram were born so to speak. What about Adam and Eve, were they call Jews then, were they not saved, what about Noah, whom we all descended from, after the flood. God makes no mistakes
Jesus preached for one year Christianity lasted for 40 years. The destruction of the temple took place in 70 A.D. Jesus returned the kingdom back to the father. We’re in a different age when no more follow a guy named Derek Jester on UA-cam truth is all that matters tell the truth, bind yourself to it and
@StormTrek I don't know exactly what your on all about? But every body tracers their origin back to Adam! Able was killed and had no line. He was replaced by Seth. I really don't think you know what your talking about. Are you using drugs?! Also, it is very clear that Paul was sent to preach to the gentiles. As He himself proclaimed. Don't bother answering on my account. I've got better things to do then answer your gibberish.
The answer is that Christianity is man made, Judaism is man made, why don't you all see this? Is it because if you are brainwashed as a child before you can reason, you don't question it as an adult?
Thanks. That was helpful.
Rahab was from Jericho in the time of Joshua.
Job and Obadiah
Job remained with the Lord and Obadiah warning his people
As I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: "TO THE UNKNOWN GOD." Who therefore has saved you as unknown is the same Jesus Christ I now proclaim to you. (Acts 17:23)
I think everyone gets it a little backwards! "Belief in Jesus", is an indicator, or proof that someone IS a child of God. Repentance makes us clean from the world. We are COG from the foundation of the world. So that when we see him, we know him. God's Children before Christ, looked forward to a Savior. God "winked at their ignorance". Men could always see the promise of the savior through nature, and be saved by hope. Ro. 1.20 The covenants are a way of sanctification in this life.
Why do you assume that sin is a moral infraction, rather than how Scripture describes it - as the measure of our fallenness… the extent to which we fail to reflect the glory of God in whose image we were created?
If your understanding of ‘sin’ as a moral infraction were correct (and you’re not), then you would have to admit that Jesus were guilty of having committed and act of sin when he healed the blind man on the Sabbath (4th Commandment ) in John 9… Yet, Jesus was without sin (2Cor 5:21), only because he and the Father are one (Jhn 10:30) - as God incarnate, Christ is the perfect image bearer of the Father
Biblically therefore, sin is not a moral condition, rather, it is an ontological reality
And by implication, why do you assume that the Law is a moral imperative rather than how Scripture explains it - as God revealing something of himself to His own? The Law is neither a capricious nor is it an arbitrary set of rules as Euthyphro suggested - rather, it reveals something of the person of God to His own (Psm 145:17/Psm 119:182, Psm 31:5/Psm 119:142, Psm 25:8/Rom 7:12, Gen 21:33/Psm 111:7,8, 1Pet 1:16/Rom 7:12, 1Jhn 4:8/Rom 13:10, Mat 5:48/Psm 19:7, Jhn 4:24/Rom 7:14, Deut 32:4/Rom 7:12, 1Jhn 1:5/Prv 6:23…)
“I gave them my decrees and made known to them my laws, by which the person who obeys them will live” - Ezekiel 20:11
Scholars tell us that the Law was given to Moses around 1446 BC, some 4,500 years AFTER God spoke everything into existence by the power of His word and well after sin first came into the world with the fall of Lucifer… Sin therefore was in the world looooong before the Law was given to Moses!
The Law (as the measure of our fallenness) therefore does not CONVICT us for the things we do - rather, it EXPOSES us for what we are - SINNERS (Gal 3:24)!
So, we are not sinners because we sin - rather, because we are sinners, we sin - BIIIIIIIG DIFFERENCE!!!
What you are preaching, is nothing less than ‘bootstrap salvation’ which intends to subordinate the sovereignty of God to the ‘sovereignty of man’ - you deny the fact that salvation is entirely an act of God’s sovereign of grace, not because of anything we do (or do not do) lest we have cause to boast and so, deny God His glory - Rom 9:16!
I wish someone would answer this: What makes me better than the people before Christ that had no chance of salvation. What was the point of their living if they had no chance to be saved? Were they simply just pawns for the Gods plan?
Thanks for the question! We invite you to call in to our weekly broadcast to discuss your thoughts with Greg Koukl. He'd love to hear from you. Or you can submit an #STRask or Open Mic question. Visit www.str.org/broadcast for details.
Acts 24:15 says "There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous". This will be after Armageddon when paradise is restored on Earth. This period of 1,000 years is referred to as Judgement Day(Rev 20:1-3)
This judgement is based on your behaviour, not by what you did before you died but by what you do during judgement day.(Rom 6:7)
Basically it doesn't matter when or where you were born everyone throughout history will exist together in this 1000 year period and get the opportunity to benefit from Christ's Ransom Sacrifice.
Poor answer. Read Hebrews 11 where it gives examples of gentiles receiving a good report because of their faith in action. Read Romans 2 where gentiles without the law are said to have done God’s will because of their conscience and that the law was in their hearts, though they weren’t aware of it. In the OT, it was God judging the conscience that saved people. They went to the bosom of Abraham to await the day that Jesus would complete his task.
@legodesi Ok just clarifying. Let me ask you a question, do you think there is anything in past gentile's hearts that could've kept the law?
The word says that all of creation knows that there is God. Before Christ came in earthly form there was creation that showed the wonders of God. Through this you either believe or you don’t . Jesus Christ said men are without excuse.
I don't think people who ask questions like that really actually care about the salvation of gentiles or Amazonian tribes or people isolated on islands who never knew about Jesus or lived before the time of Jesus. So the question is disingenuous to begin with. What would the same people say about those who lived before penicillin, or who didn't have access to it because they were to remote? You know what they would say? Oh well. That sucks for them. On my merry way. The simple fact of the matter is that they don't care. They just want others to be hopeless like them. They want to assault the faith of the simple. They want to destroy people eternally by ripping them apart from their only means of salvation, and they will act any way and say anything in order to do it. I didn't really want to believe it was as John put it in his epistles, but I'm starting to see it now: They are of the spirit of anti-Christ. Perhaps it really is that simple. A few may just be confused here or there, but not most. Most just want to steal, kill, and destroy like their father the devil. The best thing a Christian can do is be separate from the world... easier said than done, unfortunately. I am not one of those "optimistic" Christians. I think that the vast majority of humanity is condemned. These times were God's last gesture of good will to Man. He gave man mass media, and He gave his message to the world, and it was right at the center of the whole darn thing so we couldn't miss it, and yet the world AGAIN rejected Him. It's not with a light heart that I say that. I want the best for everyone, but the reality is that most of the world is chaff, and chooses to be. Just look at it. Look at the mediocrity, and the failure to really take what's serious seriously. Instead, it's all just a song and a dance purely for show and empty and devoid of meaning. That's 99 percent of everyone right there. Why should God save a bunch of empty meaningless vessels who merely put on the show of being real people, but when push comes to shove, they have no real substance other than the animating force of knowing that they are going to die and be nothing? Of course those types of desolate beings will want to destroy your faith in something other than desolation, and of course they would want you to believe only in all their desolate works made of glorified dust. They hate you because YOU are real, fellow believer in Christ.What use does it do to pray for the salvation of dust clouds? Even some of my very best friends from my youth... some died by their own hands through either stupidity or self-hostility... and I found myself sad and praying for them, and then wondering whether it even mattered because obviously these certain people I viewed as real and important didn't even view themselves as real or important. They saw nothing to save. Perhaps it is because they never saw at all. They never spoke at all. They never heard at all. They never breathed a true breath at all.But maybe I mourn because I don't know and can't judge for sure... however, when I do finally meet Christ and he reveals everything to me, perhaps all the condemnation of the vast majority of the world will then be seen as righteous judgment, much like a bell in a crucible....when the bell has set to its final form, the crucible is destroyed.
salvation in promise for gentles and Jews.
Jesus came for the lost sheep, he then asked for his followers to go to the gentile nations to look for the original Israelites not gentiles. Jesus called a gentile women a dog because he was a Jew. That's what Jew's call all Gentiles Gowm. Yahweh is a jealous God but Christians say every day that there is only One God. How is he Jealous then? Why couldn't Yahweh say that those God's don't exist at all and are just an illusion of the mind?
numbers 15 nd if a stranger sojourn with you, or whosoever be among you in your generations, and will offer an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD; as ye do, so he shall do. 15One ordinance shall be bothfor you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojournethwith you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD. 16One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
17And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 18Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land whither I bring you, 19Then it shall be, that, when ye eat of the bread of the land, ye shall offer up an heave offering unto the LORD. 20Ye shall offer up a cake of the first of your dough for an heave offering: as ye do the heave offering of the threshingfloor, so shall ye heave it. 21Of the first of your dough ye shall give unto the LORD an heave offering in your generations.
Offerings for Unintentional Sins
22And if ye have erred, and not observed all these commandments, which the LORD hath spoken unto Moses, 23Even all that the LORD hath commanded you by the hand of Moses, from the day that the LORD commanded Moses, and henceforward among your generations; 24Then it shall be, if ought be committed by ignorance without the knowledge of the congregation, that all the congregation shall offer one young bullock for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour unto the LORD, with his meat offering, and his drink offering, according to the manner, and one kid of the goats for a sin offering. 25And the priest shall make an atonement for all the congregation of the children of Israel, and it shall be forgiven them; for it is ignorance: and they shall bring their offering, a sacrifice made by fire unto the LORD, and their sin offering before the LORD, for their ignorance: 26And it shall be forgiven all the congregation of the children of Israel, and the stranger that sojourneth among them; seeing all the people were in ignorance.
@legodesi Do you mean the law IN their hearts?
@StormTrek Of course we rest in faith and hope. We haven't attained it. We have it by the promise of God. It's his work. Best accomplished when we turn ourselves over to Him. AND you mean the Jews trust their linage to Abraham. not Adam. Abraham showed and confessed he also rested/believed in the promise of God. So that even if he killed his son. God would still fulfill His promise to make him father of many nations. Yes, we are justified by faith in Christ. So I'd say we agree.
If you read the Old Testament you have always had gentiles. When God made the covenant with Abraham that is when the Jews from the line of Abram were born so to speak. What about Adam and Eve, were they call Jews then, were they not saved, what about Noah, whom we all descended from, after the flood. God makes no mistakes
Jesus preached for one year Christianity lasted for 40 years. The destruction of the temple took place in 70 A.D. Jesus returned the kingdom back to the father. We’re in a different age when no more follow a guy named Derek Jester on UA-cam truth is all that matters tell the truth, bind yourself to it and
@StormTrek I don't know exactly what your on all about? But every body tracers their origin back to Adam! Able was killed and had no line. He was replaced by Seth. I really don't think you know what your talking about. Are you using drugs?! Also, it is very clear that Paul was sent to preach to the gentiles. As He himself proclaimed. Don't bother answering on my account. I've got better things to do then answer your gibberish.
Well person if you think this, why are you bothering to answer. Your heart has been prick and the Holy Spirit is drawing you 😢
The answer is that Christianity is man made, Judaism is man made, why don't you all see this? Is it because if you are brainwashed as a child before you can reason, you don't question it as an adult?
Prophecy fulfilled. Try reading isaiah 53 and comeback here after