Novus Ordo vs Latin Mass (Are both authentic Catholic Masses?)
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Novus Ordo vs Latin Mass (Are both Catholic Masses?) Some people say the Novus Ordo is not Catholic or is a different religion. Some say only the Latin Mass is legit. One prefer one or the other? This is what the Catholic Church teaches on the matter.
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Having grown up pre Vatican II And post Vatican II. I was in seminary at the cusp! We used ro chant the office in Latin. I love both
Viva Cristo Rey
🙏 The best of both worlds 🙏
For those whose name is written in The Book of Life, I imagine they only want the one to come.
My personal favorite form of the Mass is the Novus Ordo celebrated in Latin - but I love the Mass in either form. It’s too good to pick just one.
Not the LATIN per se!
It’s the orientation of man-centered vs God-centered. The words matter not the language so much. Laity were always to support through their prayer( ceaseless). Then go out and be the best example of a Catholic they could be. Telling the TRUTH’s of God’s as needed, nothing by coercion.
The Mass is a praise, worship and sacrifice to God (the Trinity), not about raising humanity to itself.
It is also instructed by God so that we worship in the way He will’s us to, not by our own intellect.
We agree. And both Masses are designed to do just that.
You know what I have a issue with. “If it’s done properly” for noves ordo. Why is this even apart of the statement ? When we say Latin mass it’s one way you don’t hear or “Latin mass done properly” because we see major issues with the noves ordo and the abuses we see.
I’m also going to say this, communion on the hand was done in the first century, BUT then it was condemned and spoken badly about, NOW! Saints, church fathers, popes, speak BADLY about communion in the hand. UNLIKE communion by the Mouth. So that says a lot. It’s a abuse! We have a longer tradition and holy men FAVORING communion by toung. So let’s not ignore that major factor on what’s holy and proven to be favored.
We were not advocating communion in the hand. And I think you missed the point. We both advocated and said we prefer communion on the tongue. So it seems like you're making an argument here that we are not making.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial I understand what you’re but here is the issue that I’m having. Example you’re saying “prefer” I’m saying from what we know the act in most cases are a abuse in in what we see today. Extreme cases would we see the reasoning to do so. But in general it’s act thats wrong. Reasons being is popes, Saints, church fathers, have spoken badly about communion in the hand. Because even they! Seen reasoning to speak badly about it even in councils.
Unlike communion by toung we do not see Saints, pope, church fathers, councils speaking badly about that. My point is it’s not what we prefer it’s what is most reverence and overall church teachings of tradition. I understand in early church history it was allowed by it became restricted and banned for good reasoning.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial The fact that you have to use the "if it's done properly" qualifier for the Novus Ordo is just proof of its inferiority.
@@chrisarmon1002 @Snaporino I think it's because TLM priests in our day are generally pretty conservative and put a lot of effort into "playing by the rules". But can the same be said before Vatican II? I really have no idea, but I suspect that the number of TLMs "not done properly" was much higher back then than it is now. If there were many priests back then who didn't care much for the rubrics, then I'd think there'd also have been many TLMs "not done properly".
That said, I've personally been to some TLMs in our day "not done properly", and many more that, although "done properly", are less than ideal. The biggest difference is that the issues and abuses in the TLM are generally pretty minor (as opposed to those which occur in the NOM) and are often overlooked on the basis that we are "in survival mode" or "lacking in resources". For example, when the server is sick, and there are no other servers to fill in, such that the the priest has no choice but to say Mass without a server, nobody really complains. Even though this is contrary to the rubrics and is therefore an "abuse". Further still, nobody complains that the server is usually a young boy rather than an ordained acolyte. (Altar boys are not technically an "abuse" and have existed since long before Vatican II, but are nevertheless not ideal. Ideally, the server is an ordained acolyte.) And does anyoone complain when Sunday Mass is a Low Mass rather than a Missa Cantata? Many TLM attendees are content with the Low Mass, and are grateful to be able to attend (as they should be), despite the fact that the Missa Cantata is (ideally) supposed to be the norm (at least in America, and I don't know the full history behind it but I think the Missa Cantata itself was a concession for the fact that most American parishes lacked sufficient resources to say a Solemn High Mass every Sunday).
The NO is Protestant, all aspects of a propitiatory sacrifice has been removed, it is a Lord’s Supper. Why do u think a lot of Catholics do not believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist? This is why they receive in the hand. A true Catholic believes it is a sacrilege. Only the priest with consecrated hands can touch the host
You Might be interested in the book, The Pope, The Council, and The Mass. It goes through a lot of objections people have and answers them. And in this case, shows that the nee Mass is not Protestant, and that it is still about the sacrifice, and the documents show this. It's still all about the eucharistic sacrifice. God-bless.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial No point in helping these people. All they do is throw the Pharisee stone at us like they did with Jesus.
@@daninspiration4064 No one is throwing a stone at you. We throw the stones at the men who infiltrated Christ's Church and defiled His sacrifice.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial It might be in the documents but it is not well represented in the liturgy itself. I mean the congregation does not read the documents, they just attend Mass.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial thank you , I will check it out
I came back to this. My church has latin mass the 1st of every Sunday of the month. What I don’t like in Novo is that I RARELY get Eucharist from the priest. Rarely. They always have helpers two or three on the side to give out the Eucharist. I don’t like that. I understand that I go to quite a large Catherdral- but regular “non clergy” men and women are giving the Eucharist. Should I make it a point not to accept from the men and women and ONLY take from the Priest?
It's up to you, but many people do prefer that. And they will get in the priests line, or they will switch over to the priests line to receive if they have the option. I (Bryan) have done that before as well. In fact I did it just the other day.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial oh okay! Thanks 🙏
What about the Eastern Catholic Rites on comparison to TLM and Novus Ordo?
They are beautiful Rites, reverent and ancient.
Why was the Chalice withheld from the laity?
I like both the Tridentine Mass ,which I prefer to call it, and the Novus Ordo if done properly and with reverence. What I don't like about the N.O. is the type of worship songs that are used. They seem to center on the "me", and "I", instead of praise to God. We need to get rid of the Glory and Praise songs or anything that comes from the OCP which is a very liberal press . They are OK for a Charismatic prayer group but not for Mass.
Also stop the holding of the hands during the Lord's Prayer or raising the hands (orans position) imitating the priest; that position is reserved only for the priest. Also the sign of peace is like a free for all. The "V" sign is NOT a sign of peace, the waving to your buddies all over the church is not the way it should be done. It should be done ONLY to those immediately around you. If the priest omits the sign of peace (which is his option) people start the waiving just as the choir is singing the "Lamb of God". If the priest omits is so should we. In my parish we have the organ for ALL masses. Mariachis are used only on Mothers Day Spanish Mass due to the large Hispanic influence. Watch this video from "Breaking the Habit" which gives a explanation of the many changes done to the TLM ua-cam.com/video/yXG__40rcHg/v-deo.html
Your attitude is what Pope Francis and Apostle St. James had warned us about. You worship rituals more than you worship the Lord. Putting tremendous value on rituals is considered idolatry because you're taking away attention from God. Does holding hands or raising the hands during Lord's Prayer lead us away from God and does the bible forbid us from doing this? You put your focus on worldly things during Mass that you forget why you go to Mass in the first place. I advise you to reflect on James 1:26-27 "If any think they are religious, and do not bridle their tongues but deceive their hearts, their religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world."
@@Hboogie182 Of course the bible says nothing about our posture during the Lord's Prayer. It doesn't give a list of things we should not do, or DO for that matter. That is the reason the CHURCH, with the authority given to her by Jesus, has set up the GIRM. We should try our best to follow those instructions. It says what we should do; it does not give examples of what we should not do as then there would be millions of books stating each and every single thing we should not do. Nowhere will you find for the congregation to hold hands or wave to our friends across the isles. It doesn't say that we cannot wear a bikini or thong to Mass. You don't know me so you are judging me as to my purpose in attending Mass. However, it is a distraction when I'm trying to focus on Jesus AND the Eucharist and people are scurrying around like squirrels and tapping me on the shoulder because they want to hold my hand. I do not think myself as being more religious than others and YOU are judging my "attitude". The Mass is not a free for all do whatever feels good; leave that up to televangelist and non-denominational congregations.
What we have here is a failure to communicate.
Why
@@Paixpeacehippy because both are valid. If not then Jesus Christ lied. He is YHVH Jeshua Hamashia. He said rhar he and the Holy Spirit will abide with us. If either rites are wrong than all of the History of the Catholic Church is wrong. The gift if speaking in another tongue given at pentacost doesnt apply to worship then God is a liar???
Latin mass. ❤️
They are like two different religions. When “experts” act as though they are two different expressions of the same faith, they lose credibility to me.
I attended a Traditional Latin Mass last Thursday and felt the same pull I felt when looking in on the beauty of an Orthodox Church. The reverence, the sanctity, the ancient tongue reciting the prayers of the faithful. It was transfixing. Since I was raised in the Roman Catholic faith and took four years of Latin in high school, I now know exactly where I belong. The Traditional Latin Mass. Venite adoremus, Dominum!
Indeed! It is beautiful, reverent, and you can concentrate. And it lifts your mind your heart and your spirit to transcend this Earth in order to pray and worship God more effectively. God bless you.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial thank you and God Bless you too!
Both Mass are valid. Some translations needed to be addressed and have been so with the most recent liturgical changes under Pope Benedict XVI. There have been some individuals who only believe the Latin Mass is valid, but my Bishop allowed one Mass a week in Latin at a small Parish. I attempted a strong, vibrant, reverent Parish that for more than 25 years has 24/7 Adoration in the Chapel, Mass twice a day week days, Saturday Vigil, and 4 Sunday Mass where the Church is full every service. I have been privileged to be both as a Cantor, a lector, and a Lay Minister on a retreat. You can hear a pin drop prior to Mass and then after communion. Blessed Sacrament seats well over 600 people.
Saying both masses are valid is like saying 2 + 2 can indeed = 5..
How is it possible we have diluted to very concept of truth to where now we are seriously accepting that there can be two entirely different Masses and its perfectly acceptable? And they are different. Not just the rubrics, the words of consecration, the doubtful and invalid orders of Paul VI, but the faith itself has been gutted by modernism.
Is it a wonder why 80%* of those in the Novus Ordo don't believe in transubstantation?
This is a liberal, modernist channel. Unsubscribed.
No it's not, not at all. We fight against modernism and liberalism. Calling names is not a replacement for intellectual arguments friend. People left Jesus and the Church too.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial So you're comparing your UA-cam channel to Jesus and the Church? Good grief.
The western rite orthodox churches do a reverent vernacular mass ad orientum with proper Eucharist distribution and laity involvement in the liturgy. Why can’t the RC church just do the same?
I firmly believe the new Mass harms the faith! Valid or no.
Why do you believe that?
@@CatholicTruthOfficial thank you very much for your videos, firstly. They are really helping me with my Protestant brother, as well as myself!
In answer to your question, I grew up in the NO and found the TLM 4 years ago. I can honestly say that the few times I had to attend a NO due to traveling in the last 4 years, it is virtually unrecognizable to me as the Mass. Of course there are many good holy priests, I know that. And I also understand that the V2 documents are far different than what was actually implemented, thus the new Mass. There are so many things I can say about why I think it harms the faith but to just list a few: lack of reverence, lack of emphasis on contrition with minimal discussion of the sacrament of confession, the Protestant feel of the Mass itself-all about the people, priest facing the congregation, round churches, shaking hands as you go up to receive the Eucharist, Eucharist in the hand with no mention of the sloppy dress/posture/manner of reception, the impression given that we are sharing a meal, not a sacrifice, EUCHARISTIC MINISTERS with un concentrated hands, talking before during and after Mass, every Tom Dick and Harry walking around in the sacristy, the removal of the tabernacle in some churches, changing the altar to a table, weak sermons made to please the congregations sensibilities rather than their need to amend their lives…the lack of the traditional devotions (first Friday, Saturday, devotion to saints besides just the few major ones), poor catechesis, taking children out during Mass to color…I could go on and on.
I truly believe if I had been raised in tradition and heard hard hitting truth from the pulpit, I would not have strayed as far as I did, endangering my soul so terribly. That is not absolving myself if culpability, don’t misunderstand. All three of my children do not practice the Faith, as young adults, and this is the experience of virtually every person I know who grew up in the NO. I hope you understand I mean no disrespect or judgment of NO priests or people who attend the NO.
Thank you again for your great service to us.
Peace.
Catholics forget that we go to mass to worship Jesus, not worship rituals. If you value rituals more than you value Jesus then you are committing idolatry. I like Novus Ordo because I understand everything so I can actively participate. With Latin Mass I am lost and have to be passive. What's the point of going to a mass where you don't understand anything? I'd be waiting mindlessly for the ritual to be over with. I go to Mass for the purpose of getting to know Jesus, get a deeper understanding of the bible, and to seek truth. Can I achieve this with Latin Mass? No because it's incomprehensible rituals that take attention away from the Lord.
I attend both and I agree , novus ordo is great especially with a great priest , homily, and music . I like understanding the prayers and words.
Not true it's about embracing God through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit Traditional is just that. It's spiritual. Not holy rolling.
Rituals are sacrifices. No one is sacrificing. It's a solemn way to give attention for whom we're there for God through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. It's about him not us.
You can learn it on your own if you want by studying or by reading the missal, but purpose of the Mass is not for you to understand every single ritualistic formulas, aside from the homily, which is indeed done in the local language even in the Vetus Ordo.
But the primary purpose is for you to relieve the SACRIFICE OF CALVARY. Therefore the liturgy has to be in conformity with this most sublime mystery that is the essence of the Mass. Therefore only a sacred language that is exclusively reserved for ecclesiastical purposes is fitting. Only sacred music is fitting like Gregorian or Polyphony. Only heavenly art is proper, not modernist/relativistic styles.
This creates the perfect supernatural setting for reliving the Sacrifice of Calvary.
@@turnmeondeadman4221The purpose of the liturgy is not the community, but it's to elevate your intellect to the contemplation of the most sublime mystery that is taking place before you. This is why the atmophere in order to be suitable to the essence of the mass has to be sacred and otherwordly as much as possible. This is why Gregorian chants, heavenly art, the incense, and the "mysterious" sacred language of the Church are fitting.
Now you have two different religious practices. All the churches were Traditional. So Novis Ordo should of built their own churches. Just like Protestant did.
No we have the same exact religious practice in different ways. According to you all of the Eastern Rite churches would be wrong also. But many predate the Roman Rite.
I do not think our preference matters, us Catholics should follow the Pope and the doctrine of the Church.
There are 23 rites in the Catholic Church and all of them are valid, including the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine Mass. Whether a particular rite is reverent enough or not is a matter of personal preference.
As Catholics, we can't disagree with an ecumenical council or with the Church, we can't be Protestants who believe whatever they want to believe, we can ask for a reform to make the Tridentine Mass more accessible, but to actively defy the doctrine of the Church and say that the NO is invalid is the opposite of being a traditionalist and would qualify as heresy, or at least schism.
Except both the TLM and Novus Ordo are two expressions of the same rite. I’m no expert, I must admit, I believe we are the only rite with two expressions. I’d rather have two different rites, to be honest.
@@EpoRose1 Yeah the novus ordo can be the American rite
I'm "booted out" of my Former Novus Ordo, partly because I'm "Un-double Fuel Injected" and because I refuse to accept the Host in my hand, as opposed on the tongue. I would be last in the queue and kneel down but the Priests refuse to honour our Lord in a Traditional way-Why???
If the Novus Ordo is "Done Properly"-What does THAT mean? Why aren't modern Priests aware of How to do the Novus Ordo 'PROPERLY'??? WHY are the N.O. Priests Ignorant of How to do the Novus Ordo Properly .....???????
@@juliankonkani Yes! You are Correct!!! I have found the same thing: deception and irrelevant in all things Liturgical.
Ambiguity in Church synodal documents was condemned by Pius VI in the encyclical "Auctorem fidei" on the so-called Synod of Pistoia.(first rise of modernists in Catholic Church).
"in order not to offend Catholic ears, they try to hide the snares of their deceptions under deceptive phrases, so that the error, hidden among the meanings, could penetrate souls all the more easily, so that - by changing the truth of the statement by a small addition or modification - a testimony that should bring health, after a certain amount a subtle change, it led to death. Since this unconscious and deceptive way of deduction is wicked in any verbal utterance, it can in no way be used in a Synod, the merit of which must consist primarily in adopting such clear and lucid expressions in the teaching that they would not leave space for the danger of ambiguity. "
What is also interesting same encyclical condemned Mass in vernacular language.
Why are modern day priests ignorant of a lot of things? Why don't they preach the truth like they should? Many just don't know better. They had bad formation in seminary. But if you heard my story in the video about the Mass that I attend the way the Novus Ordo is supposed to be done, then you will know what it means to be done properly. It's cannon law that a priest cannot refuse you to receive communion on the tongue. And they are wrong to do so. This is just one example of how many priests today are confused and actually don't know better on these matters. But they cannot refuse you refuse you coming in on the tongue and it's against the laws of the church to do so.
The Catholic Church also prevented Bible reading at sometimes in history. That doesn't mean Bible reading is wrong. The bottom line is that the Catholic Church with the authority that Christ gave her allowed for the common language. And it wasn't just like a few liberals voted for, over 2000 Bishop's voted to change the language of the Mass and only for against it. We also mentioned in the video that other councils have been ambiguous as well. It's very difficult to mar the meaning of the texts when taken in proper context.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial
Is there controversy over ambiguity of Council of Trent, or Vatican l ?
I never heard one. Maybe you know something, then please let us know.
Vatican ll breeds confusion
Even JPll who's right hand was Joseph Ratzinger, admitted in Ecclesia Dei.
"Moreover, I should like to remind theologians and other experts in the ecclesiastical sciences that they should feel themselves called upon to answer in the present circumstances. Indeed, the extent and depth of the teaching of the Second Vatican Council call for a RENEWED commitment to deeper study in order to reveal clearly the Council's CONTINUITY with TRADITION, especially in points of doctrine which, perhaps because they are NEW, have not yet been well understood by some sections of the Church."
So how Catholic can accept Vatican Il, when even author of document cannot explaine it?
Can you blame Abp. Lefebvre for hanging to eternal teachings of Church magisterium and rejecting novelties?
Hahaha! A proper NO mass that we cannot find is better than the Latin mass??!! Show me where I can find a proper NO mass….
We never said it was better than a Latin Mass. We said we prefer it. Second, I attend several reverent NO Masses, like the one mentioned in this video (that it seems like you didn't watch).
Does it matter (spiritually speaking) when both are done "In union with Francis?" It's the same beast.
Really helpful discussion. Thank you
I completely disagree with this guy.
There is almost zero chance of any Eucharistic abuse in the TLM as opposed to the N.O. The use of Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion in N.O. Masses is absolutely ridiculous, as is receiving in the hand. It makes it appear as if there is nothing special about the Eucharist and it cheapens the priesthood. Vat II has allowed all this. It opened the door to all these abuses.
And what of all the prayers at the foot of the altar and the Leonine Prayers that were done away with in the N.O.?
The argument that Communion was given in the hand in ancient times is specious at best and many have argued that it simply didn’t happen-that it wasn’t actually in wide use as many claim. Even if it was, that doesn’t mean that it was right to do then, either.
There is no need for any “participation” by the laity. The N.O., while valid is still an incredibly deficient form of the Mass.
This video was a swipe at traditional Catholics and the TLM and served only to belittle those of us who love and venerate it. It was very dismissive of us. SO disappointed.
Actually, the Novus Ordo , when done properly according to VII, is not deficient at all per the story I told in the video. But what you say and what you see in many parishes today is many times deficient and not what it should be. We would agree. So while we agree that It is listed, we also agree that it needs reform, to bring back respect, and the much greater reverence for the Eucharist.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial Any discussion of what the N.O. was “supposed” to be is academic because the abuses in wide use today are never going to be drawn back.
The N.O., with all the attendant abuses is not going to be changed on any meaningful level. The horse is already out of the barn as they say.
If you look at the differences in posture, the amount of blessings made over the Eucharist, the amount of times a priest genuflects in the TLM as opposed to the N.O., among many other differences, (like the removal of all the prayers I mentioned above), I’d argue the N.O. is absolutely deficient.
“Catholic truth” why are you propping up the New World order, the protestant developed, modernist liturgy? Shame on you.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial you and your guest promote the LIE of the 1960s antichrist modernist who sold the liturgical revolution under the banner of “well this is actually closer to the ancient right.“ Stooges, both of you
@@verum-in-omnibus1035 @Catholic Truth has done some good work on this channel, but this last video was a huge swing and a miss. His guest here is way off.
Lots of "Oh I think this was better then that" Not once a quote from a Pope or a Council and lets ignore the fact that the Anglican's service is almost identical to the Novus Ordo. That couldn't possibly be a problem. (Doctrine matters)
The ordiniariate for those coming from the Anglican Church use only male altar servers, male acolytes as readers, communion is by intinction which has to be on the tongue, and kneeling, (unless you have knee problems then standing is OK), the Confiteor is omitted but something similar is prayed before Communion and other prayers not in the Novus Ordo. Also the English uses the "Thee's and "Thou's". The priest also faces the same direction as the congregation. He does NOT have his back to the people. Otherwise you would have to say that the people in the first row have their backs to people behind them, the second row likewise and on down the line.
N.O. if not abuse ✅ Jesus can speak many language Jesus handed the loaf bread to his disciples Jesus did not feed us like a sheep 🐑 though he is our good shepherd everything Jesus has done made it clear and simple
Hello Mr Mercier, I have a question and my question is.That if a member of the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Christian Church does not confess his sins and does not receive Holy Communion for several years is that member excommunicated from the church,please let me know if this is true.I’d appreciate your feedback on this serious situation,thank you.
They they are not excommunicated I don't think, but they are in mortal sin. One must go to confession at least once a year on pain of mortal sin.
Authentic from Greek authentikos "original, genuine, principal. you take about communion on the tongue as "Innovation" while disregarding how the Holy Spirit fostered the awareness of the real presence in the church.
He was not talking about "innovation" in a bad way, to be fair. He was just noting that it did change from what it once was. Both men in the video agreed that on the tongue is better and more reverent.
For your own sake read the Didiche dates to the yr 90ad.
And read: John 14: 26 and adjoining verses.
We've read both and know both. Thanks though.
I know I'm late to this discussion but my takeaway from this is: are you receiving the literal body and blood of Christ in the Mass? If so, then what's the problem? That's what counts in the end unless I've missed something.
Tradition isn't to be looked down because it is what has kept our faith going before the bible.
As a newcomer to Catholicism currently entering RCIA, all the division and debate on this subject is really terrible. So much pride and egoism being inflated leading to sin. I have been to both types of masses. My favorite was a latin mass at a small nunnery. A very basic building and altar, but very reverent and magical/otherworldly. But that’s an hour drive for me, and it’s not a parish mass. Our bishop has required all parish churches to use the Novus Ordo, and my home one in a small rural town is perhaps the best of them, but there are a couple suboptimal aspects to it compared to a Latin mass. When the priest says a few self-demeaning jokes and everyone issues a canned chuckle in response, or everyone’s attention is taken off God when awkwardly giving one another the sign of peace, etc. I’d love to see an "ideal" Novus Ordo but haven’t been able to find one and have heard that they by and large don't really exist. The last one I attended was at a big fancy building, but the music was played by a guy up front on a guitar making frequent mistakes, the words of the scripture were read by a layperson in shorts and a T-shirt who misread and said at least one entirely wrong word without noticing, the Eucharist was distributed by a handful of lay helpers, and I just didn’t feel comfortable being there. I believe in the authority of the Church and will follow their leadership, but I do wish the mass felt more traditional - even though it’s a tradition I’m not personally acquainted with. Furthermore, it breaks my heart seeing open disagreement on this subject, and I wish the Church would address the problems and place firmer requirements on the Mass, and encourage unity rather than diverse allowances. If an ideal Novus Ordo can be that, then great! But that’s not what the current norm is. I do agree that there are drawbacks to the Latin Mass too, but those are much fewer and less jarring. It won’t get in the way of me choosing to join the Catholic Church, but may well shift where I attend mass most of the time in the future. I pray that I can avoid falling into a pride trap in the process.
Thank you for the comment. All good thoughts. Where do you live? I personally don't like any of the churches in my town. They're not bad, but they're not amazing either. So we travel about 20 minutes and there are 3 great N.O. churches in that town. We also like the Latin Mass as well.
Thankfully, unlike a Protestant service, the Mass is not dependent on the priest, and we can still enter into full communion with Christ through the Eucharist and through prayer. Hopefully you can find a good church in your area that you like.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial Hi! I'm in the Springfield, MO area in a rural area. It's a 20+-minute drive to my nearest church, and longer to others. Fortunately, I do like my local church, the priest, and the community as well. The more we've visited other places within our diocese, the more I appreciate "coming home" to my nearest local church, and I feel blessed to be where I happen to be. It's Novus Ordo of course, but is a pretty good one as far as I can tell. And if we get an itch for a Latin mass, I'm thankful there is one we can attend on occasion.
There are a couple places we've visited that we probably won't return to out of preference, but that's a great point you make about communion with Christ not being dependent on the priest (other than them having authority), and for that matter any other details.
Malo lava boys!!! Thank you both for your work for the people of God. God bless!!!
Without citation keep criticizing 2000 years of tradition big man, New World order for you right?
The Tridentine Mass is not 2000 years old. Sooo.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial It is the Mass of All Time.
@@miclam00 People call it the Tridentine Mass, but it is not a Mass invented at the Council of Trent. What St Pious V did is to codify the Roman rite as it came from apostolic times and suppressed abuses and standardize it.
Magisterium
@@CatholicTruthOfficial actually, it is. Read the 22nd Session from the Council of Trent. In fact, read the entire council. Nowhere do they create anything new, like V2 did with the NO.
Quote from "Luther on the Eucharist - Doctrine and Practice"
Presented at the “Luther. Katholizität und Reform. Wurzeln - Wege - Wirkungen "
2014-09-21 by the Lutheran "bishop" Jari Jolkkonen (available on the Internet).
["On the other hand in many practical and liturgical solutions he was a “reformist”. Some of the reforms, like the removal of the Eucharistic prayer, have not been accepted widely, not even in the Churches of the Reformation. But many other reforms are widely accepted both in the Lutheran Churches and the Roman Catholic Church. For example, according to the Second Vatican Council, the homily is an integral part of the mass. The Council prefers the vernacular language (instead of latin), a common mass (instead of a private), and the distribution of both the bread and the wine (instead of using only the bread, una specie). One could almost hear Luther whispering: “Great job this time, dear council fathers, thank you very much!”]
The protestants would not accept the Catholic Mass. Among other things karma they would not accept the true presence of the Eucharist, or the language of the euchrist being a sacrifice. They probably also wouldn't accept Chant, Latin, Incense, or other things as well.
I’m trying to convert my hubby ( the saga continues) is the latin mass better for a non-Catholic? We do both now.
It's preference. Some non Catholics love the Latin Mass (if they are prepared for it) and some prefer the Novus Ordo. The Latin Mass is a more beautiful experience, but many people don't know what's going on either. So, it depends. Sorry if that doesn't help.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial it helps. He loved the latin mass - and he kinda followed what was happening
Get well soon Bryan 🙏
On the tongue wasn't an "innovation". Yes, it was in the hand initially, but only for those living in persecution because no priest was available daily.
@Kristine Finley. Communion in the hand was practised at the 1st Mass instituted by Jesus and in the Masses celebrated by the Apostles and the Early Church Fathers. They who were taught personally by Jesus practised communion by hand. They gave us the NT. So they weren't wise and reverent ? Jesus wasn't reverent to Himself when the 1st Mass was communion by hand ? Jesus didnt teach communion by tongue. Neither did the Apostles and the Early Church Fathers.
@@jeremiahong248 Was it, though? -But surely the Apostles received Communion in the hand at the Last Supper? It is usually presumed that this was so. Even if it were, though, we would point out that the Apostles were themselves priests, or even Bishops. But we must not forget a traditional custom of middle-eastern hospitality which was in practice in Jesus’ time and which is still the case; that is, one feeds his guests with one’s own hand, placing a symbolic morsel in the mouth of the guest. And we have this text of St. John’s Gospel (13:26-30): “Jesus answered, ‘It is he to whom I shall give this Morsel when I have dipped It.’ So when He had dipped the Morsel, He gave It to Judas… So, after receiving the Morsel, he [Judas] immediately went out…”
Did Our Lord place this wet Morsel into Judas’ hand? That would be rather messy. Did He not perhaps extend to the one whom He addressed later in the garden as “friend” the gesture of hospitality spoken of above? And if so, why not with Holy Communion, “giving Himself by His own Hand”? -
(1) A more rigorous study of available evidence from Church history and from writings of the Fathers does not support the assertion that Communion in the hand was a universal practice which was gradually supplanted and eventually replaced by the practice of Communion on the tongue. Rather, facts seem to point to a different conclusion: Pope St. Leo the Great (440-461) is an early witness of the traditional practice. In his comments on the sixth chapter of St. John’s Gospel he speaks of Communion in the mouth as the current usage: “One receives in the mouth what one believes by faith.”
You can read the whole article by Fr Paul McDonald here: bfhu.wordpress.com/2010/07/02/history-of-communion-tonguehand/
@@kristinafinley2394
John 13:26
Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.
This verse doesn't really support communion in the tongue because it only mentions Judas receiving this way and then Satan entering him after he received communion.
The practice of doing away communion in the hand started after the Latin Mass was instituted as supported by your quote.
What is crystal clear is that Jesus, the Apostles and the Early Church Fathers didn't teach communion by tongue.
Michael Loften is learned. He wouldn't say something without proof. He mentioned communion by hand was common for 1000 years. Michael is an advocate of communion by tongue and he wouldn't say something contrary to his preference for communion by tongue if it weren't true.
@@jeremiahong248 did you even read the article at all? It addresses everything you just said.
@@kristinafinley2394 why is the article authoritative? The evidence the article listed is well after AD 400 which supports my assertion. It doesnt answer the glaring fact that neither Jesus, the Apostles and the Early Church Fathers ever taught communion by mouth.
There are Protestants who even say St Augstine affirms Sola Scriptures and some of the Early Church Fathers hold Protestant beliefs.
I have received communion by tongue, kneeling down too. The parishes in my country doesn't forbid it. But let's be accurate historically and theologically.
Lex orandi statuat legem credendi.
Praise be to God..so glad you are back and healthy. Brian God bless you.
Brian, I believe you are referring to the Mass Ad Orientum. It really is beautiful when done correctly. The current NO is so hodge podge, you really never know what you're going to get, or which liturgical abuses you'll get to witness.
If this were the case, then why not fight for the proper form of the NO mass? What sense is there in going back to an older edition of the mass that was made for a different culture?
@@themoderncatholicwarrior7216 ...Because that "different culture" happens to be superior albeit not perfect?
@@TheZeroSbr That is subjective. But regardless, we are not in that culture. Most people do not speak Latin, so they cannot truly engage in the work of the law.
@@themoderncatholicwarrior7216 No, it is not subjective. What you're saying is heresy, because that allows for the notion of "all cultures are beautiful", which is essentially moral relativism. This is one of the heresies contained in Modernism.
So what if they can't speak Latin? If this were an obstacle, why are TLM parishes booming? I'll tell you why: because it doesn't matter that they don't know Latin. This tired argument has never held any ground due to the fact that the congregation would have a side-by-side translation of what is being said in the vernacular. That's how it always was. Find any daily missal from 1962 and prior, and it will have both the Latin and the vernacular side-by-side.
@@TheZeroSbr I have been hearing about Latin mass parishes booming since I was 10. Yet today, those same parishes are dying. That was Our Lady’s church in Hampton and Corpus Christi in Tynong, Victoria Australia. That gospel message is that the HS came upon the apostles to speak in the native languages of the nation. They embraced what was good in the cultures.
Both of them are valid and have their specials. The tlm is is beautiful with the latin prayers that helps in spiritual meditation and the novus ordo for going along with the mass ( because i don't speak latin so obviously i stay quite during it )and the praise songs they have. It's safe to say that both are vaild and you can go to them both one for a low mass and the other for the sunday mass.
While I agree that NO mass is valid, I'm done with communion in the hand and lay Eucharistic minister. My only wish is TLM being available in my hometown. The nearest Latin Mass takes days to go.
both😃😃
Only the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Church follows the 7 Sacraments. If there are some changes, I think they must look into it. But I noticed that the Roman Catholic sometimes has Latin prayers in other instances which sometimes translated into English. And uttering the Lord's Prayer professing the death and resurrection of Christ.
Bryan, I am up with the same question. In our parish, there is a mass every Saturday. But it is celebrated alternately by a Priest and a Lay Minister. In the first two masses of the Lay Minister, as I am new here, I received holy communion. But now, I have decided not to receive if it is not celebrated by a Priest. What are your thoughts on this?
Is this a Saturday evening mass or a Saturday morning mass?
The one celebrated by Lay minister is not a Mass. It's a "communion service". So you are not required to receive, and you would not be required anyways.
Either way, I would probably try to go to another Mass, like on Sunday if you can. Or go to another church that has an actual Mass at another parish. Those would be some thoughts we have.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial It's a Saturday evening Mass. I'm just kind of worried, because even if I don't receive communion I feel troubled and uncomfortable, I just say to myself that " I'll just join the People with their prayers". But even that makes me uncomfortable. By the way, I thank you for your response.
There is nothing wrong with attending a communion service. It's usually because there's a shortage of the priest being able to do all the Masses. If you can go to another church or another Mass we would recommend it, but if not, it's not wrong to go if you don't have other options.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial Thank you for clarifying this. May God bless you.
If the New Order ordinations are valid, then you are probably right.
They are. We actually have a video coming out on this in the near future.
🙏
The Church was not established on a particular language or rite, it is the Spirit who gives life to the Mass. The Latin language was used in the Western Church because of the Latin Roman Empire of the West where they spoke Latin, Greek was used in the Eastern Empire, while Syriac, Armenian, Arabic are used in the oriental churches. Also the first churches of the Apostles wouldn't even go near in appearance, rites, and approaches compared with the Tridentine Latin Mass, they didn't even have a church building or a permanent Tabernacle.
Latin was decided on the language of the Church out of convenience and how ubiquitous it was, yes, but also in order to unify us. What other language can do that?
If the only thing that changed in the NO was the language, you might have a point.
@@TheZeroSbr The emphasis on the use of Latin by some sections of the Church is then not true to actual intention to why Latin was adopted as the language of the Mass in the first place, as part of the Roman Rite.
The adoption of a language to be used in the Liturgies was, and is always, for the purpose of evangelization and not in itself an inseparable part of the faith or the truth, that is the Church does have authority to change the language of the Mass of a certain rite in order to evangelize to the local peoples everywhere, as the various rites themselves were designed by the authority of the Church to suit the particular churches.
The Church seeks to preserve the richness of the rites that have come to existence over the many centuries of orthodoxy, but the Church is not bound to any particular rite or language as she journeys on to evangelize.
@@JohnR.T.B. Got any citations?
@@miclam00 The other rites of the other churches recognized by the Church differ not only in languages.
Mr Loftons comments are a joke. The Latin Mass goes back to Pope Saint Gregory the great with elements found in the first century. He should study the issue before acting as some sort of expert on the liturgy. PErhaps Adrienne Fortisque s short book on the Roman Liturgy would be a good start.
No, no it really doesn't at all. Mr Lofton is correct and has studied this extensively.
You say a lot of things, but you don't seem to have any citations anywhere. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but if you want to really convince people, please put citations in the video description.
If you go to Michael lofton's channel, Reason & Theology, his videos are in depth and he has countless quotes and slides on the screen that you can see.
I am in full support of Catholic Truth Ministries because you actually have done alot for the catholic community. It's time for certain egotistic people to step off their high spiritual horse and be obidient to the church's teachings.
I’m not going to try to talk above my pay rate, but I’ve been around the world so to speak, born into a Catholic family after VII, and now exclusively Latin Rite 1962 Catholic.
I’ll never step foot back into a Novus Ordo pseudo mass again after finding the Mass of all times. Maybe I should elaborate on what seems like harsh wording, but when you see the manifestation or real world effects of the Novus Ordo liturgy- the blatant disregard for humility, piety and modestly of most attendees before the Blessed Sacrament and the indifference of several priests to abuses or them initiating the abuse, I’m so done with it. Haven’t gone back in at least three years and no regrets.
Words cannot fully express the intrinsic beauty of the Latin Mass, and I’m not talking about the language barrier, which has been difficult to get used to, but the stark and straightforward Catholicism in the prayers and structure, the actions of the priest even are instructive. I’ve learned more about my Catholic Faith in three years of the Latin Mass than a lifetime of Novus Ordo, which to be brutally honest was a source of confusion at times.
While living as a NO Catholic I fell away, not blaming the NO, but it really didn’t feel so different when I experimented with Protestantism.
Only after going to the Mass of all time did it really hit me why the Protestants have such a problem with the Mass, it’s strikingly Catholic, until it isn’t after Fr. Dialogue gets through emasculating it.
When you see Protestantism for what it is, and read Quo Primum and pope St. Pius V and the Council of Trent, you understand why the Mass was codified and made unchangeable. It meant to prevent the “Protestant-ization” and errors so dangerous to souls.
Thank you for the comment. While I would agree with you that the Latin mass is more reverent and beautiful than the NO, and I can understand why you would want to go there, I would just say that there is no such thing as the mass of all time. That would imply that the Matthew go to has the same master has been there throughout all of history which is of course false. There are a lot of older Rites than the Roman Rite, and even the Roman Rite was not the original Rite and has gone through many changes down through the centuries.
Also, the mass was not made unchangeable. If you understand the context and what it's saying, and also understand that the authority of the Pope allows him to change what another Pope made, unless its Dogma and none of that was Dogma. Thank you for the comment though. We appreciate it.
Praise be to Jesus and Mary
Latin is a least of the problems
And who ever changed all this, you and I see that latin was not an issue, but liturgy and God,
So if all this is novas ordo and product or fruits of that change, then we should change it back to traditional regardless of history and language
Because we lost reverence to God gregorian chant, arhitecture, interior design, and how many souls for English or other language
That economy, trade and im useless in it, is even for me, bad
I know that was not goal or wish of V. II. but someone used the opportunity to destroy reverence to God and we all together should get it back
I hope u see my point
God bless you all
Agreed. Somebody definitely used the opportunity to destroy the things of God. And we need reform, to return to reverence, and to to what the Council actually called for. There are so many abuses that need to be fixed from the top down.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial We'd be better off pretending V2 never happened. Nothing good has come from that ambiguous mess of a council. God is not ambiguous.
best 👍👍because in our place in asia we use ordinary form mass .. and we are very disciplined in the holy mass and we do not willingly reduce or add norms in the mass existing .. we have to think balanced ..because this thing about the liturgy is very dangerous to people who do not understand about the liturgy Benedicat nos Deus omnes, amen.
The new order mass is easily arguably more protestant than the traditional mass. Facing man rather than God, treating it more as a family supper than a sacrifice, having lay people -- men and women -- hand distributing the body and blood of our Lord, altar girls, women lecters, no head coverings for women, jeans in church (even for women), etc. -- all these are much more protestant than catholic or scriptural. Allowing women and girls to have an authoritative role in liturgy and women dressing as men with no head coverings are even contrary to the New (and Old) Testament.
To be fair, those are the abuses of the new mass. Not what the new Mass is supposed to be. The documents in Vatican II called for none of that period those were all novel, uncalled for abuses. We agree that reform is necessary in many places and reverence needs to be brought back tenfold.
Why are you so infatuated with what women are wearing at church? Sounds carnal to me.
When Jesus preached to the crowds, did he face the people or did he face God? I rest my case.
@@bobblacka918 Jesus is God. And when Jesus is present (on earth talking to us or in the Eucharist), we are supposed to face Him, not turn our backs on Him to face each other.
@@deepforestfire I am concerned about what women wear in church because God is. It is an abomination for a woman to dress as a man (and vice versa), especially in church, and women are expressly commanded to cover their heads in church (and men to uncover their heads), for man was created first and the man is the glory of God and woman the glory of man, and man is the head of the wife as Christ is head of the church, and women are not permitted to teach or have authority over men and are to remain silent and if they have a question they are to ask their husbands at home. This is all Biblical and Traditional. Eve was deceived and Adam harkened unto the woman instead of obeying God, and this is happening now as well within the church.
I was born in 61, first precious years of my life was with the TLM, was glued to the altar and the reverence, as a young child, I new something very important was transpiring!. Then......for "50" years watch with great pain the destruction of the Holy Mass, it's beauty, reverence, adoration, worship, dress, traditions, it was very very gut wrenching, it was protestantized and I firmly believe it was intentionally done by the modernists!! The writing is so clearly on the wall. Francis overplayed his hand by shutting down all churches worldwide after we were "blessed" with the plandemic shortly after his pacha mama diabolical idol stunt at the Vatican. Faithful Catholics left without the sacraments flocked to the TLM, there they found shepherds who cared about the Salvation of their souls!!! Since it has flourished worldwide and people starving for truth are staying, what does Francis want to do??? SUPPRESS THE TLM....WHY?? It's not that hard to figure out!! He and most if the USCCB are wolves in sheep clothing, they threw our PRECIOUS LORD AND SAVIOR under the bus in the Most Holy Eucharistic by not calling out Biden, Pelosi and the like for their notorious, pathetic, diabolical evil they participate in PUBLICALLY, what they have done right before Advent, I'm afraid is going to bring more chastisements upon us......CATHOLICS, WAKE UP!! DO THE FIVE FIRST SATURDAY DEVOTION REQUESTED BY OUR LADY OF FATIMA!!! 📿
I am now 55 yo didn’t even know what was TLM much to experience it until my youngest son introduced the mass to our family few years back. Now we attend only Latin Mass. Sadly most people of my generation in Indonesia do not even know what is TLM. Nobody talks about it. Hopefully in this internet era more people will get the knowledge and benefit from the many resources like this podcast.
I too would love to celebrate God my Father through Latin Mass, as in revelation '... go to your former ❤... '
Why do you say only the Latin Mass is in Revelation? The Latin mass was not the original Mass. Just curious.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial I'm also curious.
When Rome embraced Christianity, did the Romans abandon their native tongue and favoured Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic?
If so, why did (St) Jerome translate the Hebrew texts into Latin, for the Bible-to-be?
Most of the world at that time, if they could read and write all, they read Latin. Much of the world at that time spoke Latin especially in Italy and Rome where the Pope was.
I love how you guys are attacking radical "traditionalism." (Or as I call it, neo-old Catholics)
As someone who once fell into the evil of sedevacantism, I know the dangers of this radical thought, and I can tell you, these radical views lead directly into sedevacantism and orthodoxy. If Catholic apologists don't start taking these issues seriously, many more people are going to fall away when scandal arrives.
What is the evil of sedevacantism?
@@ArmandoTheCatholic From my own experience, I would say pride. When I was considering sedevacantism and was more than just partially persuaded by their arguments, the main problem I saw in myself was wanting to dissociate from the "lesser" Catholics. Dr. E. Michael Jones once described schism very perceptively as "the death of charity", and I would say that was aptly descriptive of my own experiences with sedevacantism.
If you're not a sedevacantist, then how do you justify """""pope""""" francis being a manifest heretic?
@@purth Francis is not. Even if he were, the Church has never decided what exactly would happen with a heretical Pope and has never even taught that their could be one. It has been a debated topic for years. If you accept sedevacantism you destroy the visibility of the Church and might as well become orthodox or an Anglican. Almost all sedes I have had experiences with always end up completely rejecting Catholicism.
Is the evil of sedevecantism Is that it claims to be the only true Catholic Church and says the actual Catholic Church is from the devil. They also say there hasn't been a Pope in over 50 years. Not a true Pope. Thry are all false heretics according to sedevecantists. There are many more problems too including the pharisee pride mentioned above.
Protestisum is never an option. We have Eastern or groups like SSPX.
SSPX is not an option either until they come back into full communion with the Catholic Church. Pope Benedict said that they cannot have any active ministry until they reconcile some of their false teachings and also come back into communion with the supreme pontiff and Rome. Also, they are not an Eastern Rite.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial
"False teaching"
What document?
Which false teachings?
Holy Father, Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI, as expressed in the motu proprio Ecclesiae Unitatem, issued July 2, 2009:
In the same spirit and with the same commitment to encouraging the resolution of all fractures and divisions in the Church and to healing a wound in the ecclesial fabric that was more and more painfully felt, I wished to remit the excommunication of the four Bishops illicitly ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre. With this decision I intended to remove an impediment that might have jeopardized the opening of a door to dialogue and thereby to invite the Bishops and the "Society of St. Pius X" to rediscover the path to full communion with the Church. As I explained in my Letter to the Catholic Bishops of last 10 March, the remission of the excommunication was a measure taken in the context of ecclesiastical discipline to free the individuals from the burden of conscience constituted by the most serious of ecclesiastical penalties. However, the doctrinal questions obviously remain and until they are clarified the Society has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry. (emphasis added)
1. The SSPX is not in full communion with the Church and is invited by the Church to rediscover this path.
2. The SSPX has no canonical status in the Church and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry.
The reason that granting special faculties in narrow circumstances won't reconcile the SSPX with the Church is because as Pope Benedict XVI stated in his 2009 letter, "[T]he problems now to be addressed are essentially doctrinal in nature and concern primarily the acceptance of the Second Vatican Council and the post-conciliar Magisterium of the Popes." There is more too...
@@CatholicTruthOfficial
You are adding to the text
This documents nowhere says that SSPX holds "false teaching".
SSPX do not have their own teachings.
They just teach, what Church always teached except VC2 novelties.
As comes to"Doctrinal questions", it might refer to those new doctrines introduced on pastoral council, which after council all the sudden they became dogmatic and new way of Church.
Please listen on that Catholic Answers podcast "Status of Society of Pius X" part 1
You mention also that "goals of ecumenism is clear - is to bring people back to Church".
Is anything but clear, and it should be since
"Church committed herself irrevocably to following the path of the ecumenical venture.".
@@CatholicTruthOfficial hey Brian, the SSPX are valid Masses that may be attended by the faithful, without being in schism of the Church. Pope Francis even "re-instated" all of the priestly faculties, which I still find funny that a priest an SSPX priest could offer Mass but couldn't offer Confession or perform a Marriage. Did he stop being a priest in the Confessional? Pope Francis has his motives right now, with the suppression of the FSSP and ICKSP Masses, limiting when they can celebrate, etc. He's going to slowly push the traditional Catholics to the SSPX on purpose. The current SSPX bishops aren't getting any younger, and soon they will need to consecrate more bishops, which is going to put them in the exact same position as Archbishop Lefebvre was. Whether it's Francis or the next Pope, they are going to refuse the request of the Bishops, the Bishops will be forced to consecrate without papal authority as an emergency, then the Pope will ex-communicate the SSPX entirely cutting out any and all Tradition from the Church. Just need to follow the path of the decisions happening to see it all unfold in front of your eyes. Why would Pope Francis restore the faculties of the SSPX priests while at the same time limiting the TLM among the other groups? I have never attended an SSPX Mass, and the closest is 2 hours away, but if I'm forced to, I will do it, knowing full well any blow back by the Vatican is out of spite and not theologically sound doctrine. Sometimes, ex-communications are invalid, too.
I actually like Novus Ordo
I know very controversial opinion
No, apparently the controversial opinion is that you like the TLM.
Perhaps they're both controversial from differing sides.
I also like the Novus Ordo. If the Pope says it's okay, then it is okay. The Pope is Jesus's representative on earth. If you won't accept that, then you are not Catholic.
@@bobblacka918 the Pope thinks Biden is a good catholic. Is it true?
If the NOM is celebrating according to a traditional view of the Mass is good. I attended 25 years in the Mass celebrated in the "basilica of st. Mary at the martyrs" in Rome : traditional vestments (including priests Birettas, Latin chanting, music of the organ, no communion in the hand, everything polite and traditional.
If anyone has a question about I can answer.
I love you both. Keep up the great work and God bless you.
The encyclical of Pius V QUO PRIMUM clearly stated that any celebration of the sacrifice of the Holy Mass that was said in any other way, LET HIM BE ANATHEMA. By their fruits you shall know them - what is the fruit of this NEW ORDER (Novus Ordo) ? Mass APOSTASY.
No doubt this ignorance is not always CULPABLE - only our Lord Jesus Christ can make that judgement.
We must only obey ALL THAT IS NOT SIN. To sin is to miss the point, the bulls-eye on the target. What is our target ? It is to KNOW, to LOVE and to SERVE. This is the First Commandment. This love is not a feeling - it is AN ACT OF WILL. The Mass of the Council of Trent. may not please those who say that they "believe in the Holy Catholic Church" but actively PROTEST against it. Father forgive them - if they know not what they are doing to the Church of Christ.
The simple truth is that a pope has the authority to change or alter that, as does an ecumenical council. There have been many authoritative statements made by popes in history that have been changed, altered, or reversed by other popes because they have that authority to do so.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial which contradicts the word "authoritative"
Not in the least. It's because the pope is authoritative and has the authority from Christ that he can do this. He is the only one who can do this because of the Keys he was given.
If there are abuses of the NO, the problem is with the abusers.
If the Protestants adulterated the bible with their heresies, do we condemn the bible?
Now this is a solid point. But, the Bible doesn’t allow for abuses, and the NO does. The NO through the documents of V2 provides many options and vague instructions with very little guidance. If we constantly tell Protestants that the Bible requires an authority to interpret, then so do the documents of V2. If the Bible must be interpreted in the light of Apostolic Tradition, then so must the documents of V2. Otherwise, we ARE as the Protestants: interpreting things how we like and adhering to what we prefer instead of pursuing the truth.
Wasnt there Gallican rites and orher rites in the west.
5:05 is the TLM the Mass of all times ?
The TLM was not the 1st born Mass. The bible and the history of the Mass shows that the 1st Mass celebrated by Jesus was a Jewish Passover Meal with Judaic Passover liturgy in Aramaic.
The Mass celebrated by the Apostles, the Early Church Fathers for the 400 years was Jewish Passover liturgy in Aramaic, Hebrew or Greek.
The Latin Mass was instituted in AD 400 in Latin ONLY AFTER thr legalisation of the Catholic Church to facilitate the spread of Christianity.
The NO is instituted to facilitate the spread of Christianity in non Anglo Saxon world so that the local people in non Anglo Saxon countries can celebrate Mass in their own language to better understand and participate in the Mass. This is the reason why the conversion rate in Asia and Africa is the highest.
This is the reason why 1 month ago, a Chinese speaking Protestant was able to enrol for a Chinese RCIA in my parish and attend the Chinese speaking Mass. If not for the NO, this Protestant will remain a heretic.
Many countries - green mission fields would have fallen to the Protestants.
@@juliankonkani The 1st Mass and the Mass celebrated by the Apostles and Early Church are Jewish Passover Mass with Passover Liturgies !!!
The NO is created by Freemason or Protestant? Thanks for the propaganda!!
The NO was approved by the Magisterium which is never wrong ! Whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven !!
You are not a Catholic if you disobey the Magisterium !
God is showing all of you modern day Pharisees and Catholic talibans that He is happy with the NO that ALL recent Eucharistic miracles happen in reverently celebrated NO Masses. When the times are troubling, God sends a sign of affirmation. God has send sign that He is pleased with the NO to grant a number of Eucharistic miracles to reverently celebrated NO Massed.
@@juliankonkani Yes. Kindly look at the facts please. I urge you ...we don't need BJP behaviours in the Catholic Church, my brother.
@@juliankonkani i am not biased towards NO nor TLM. I am biased towards facts. In fact I support the retention and continue celebration of the TLM. And I find the Libtard leftist liberal Catholics like Biden, Pelosi a danger to our faith.
However, some of the facts put out by TLM supporters are skewed and historically incorrect.
And the SSPX is wrong on many fronts. My earlier support for the continuation celebration of TLM doesn't mean I have to support the schismatic SSPX. JESUS calls for oneness of the Church and faith. John 17:21. SSPX is breaching this.
Within the doors of the Church, we are brother and anything we can talk.
Outside the doors, no more brothers, only separated brethens at best.
@@juliankonkani i don't even read modernist literature. Unfortunately sir, you have been brainwashed by SSPX to ignore the facts. I am for FSSP and ICKSP. SSPX is Protestant in Behaviour. Bishop Schneider talk sense. That is why he is not SSPX. And Vigano despite the situation he is in, doesn't even bothered to join SSPX.
@@juliankonkani I read SSPX literature too. There is no evidence they support SSPX. Even if they did support SSPX. Only lip service. They don't even bother to join SSPX. Supporting TLM is not the same as supporting SSPX.
Support FSSP and ICKSP instead
I go to basically two different churches, my parish which is all English and prefers Eucharist in the hand, and the nearby Shrine, which is a combination of English and Latin and most receive on the tongue at the altar rail. I prefer receiving on the tongue but not wanting to cause any problems, I will receive in the hands if I see most parishioners receiving in the hand. The Shrine was built by Mother Angelica so the service is similar to the mass you see on EWTN except a little more sacred with the nuns singing and more Latin than the mass on EWTN.
Unless there is an altar rail, I cannot kneel at the altar as I have bad knees and would need assistance getting up.
I'm going to look for your video on tongue vs hands. Thanks for the informational videos!
The Magisterium approved the NO.
The Magisterium is never wrong according to the Bible and Sacred Traditions.
Bro. Jeremiah, we may not always agree with everything but this time you have my full support. You have helped many people esp catholics understand the TRUE Catholic teachings because you possess great knowledge and wisdom. I acknowledge that I myself have learned a lot from you. I love reading your comments! I know you have been producing good fruits. Keep up your good work. I also find ways to evangelize people and to bring them to God as many as I can. This is our mission: the conversion and salvation of souls. Do you have plan to create a channel that will propagate the Catholic Faith like this? I encourage you to have one because you are so good at explaining the Catholic Faith. God bless you, brother!
@@marietav7342 Ha ! Ha ! I didn't realise you have been following some of my comments.😃
Hope to see you comment too. There is just insufficient moderate voice in Catholic channels which are instead filled with extremist, talibanic rad trad voices, misinformation and propaganda. Many innocent are drawn and converted to their misinformation and error. More moderate voices need to counter these rad trads which are tearing the Church apart. The rad trads are nothing but modern Pharisees and behaving like them, sticking to small "t" traditions and ignoring Sacred Tradition, tradition with the big "T" .
@@jeremiahong248 Actually, I liked almost all of your comments. 😁 You are now one of my favorite commenters! Another favorite of mine is "Angelic Doctor" because I find him wise and knowledgeable too just like you. But I seldom see him comment now. I once came across him at Tim Gordon's channel and we exchanged words. He encouraged me to continue my ministry. For now, I have no time to debate with prots and rad trads because I'm busy with my work. But hopefully, some other time, I will be able to. But I often comment on the channel "Catholic For Rednecks".
Your rebuttals and explanations of the Catholic teachings are of great help for people who are confused with the teachings of the Church because of the lies, twisting of truth and confusion sown by these modern-day Pharisees. I hope and pray you become a saint someday or possibly, you are already a saint. :) I want to be a saint, too. Everyday, I pray to God to make me a saint. I have great confidence in God that He will help me or He is already helping me now to attain holiness. :) By the way, I like your name or username because Jeremiah is one of the greatest prophets in the Old Testament. God bless you and your ministry, brother! Praised be God!
@@marietav7342 Busy is good problem. At least got work in these pandemic times. I am still behind replying to a Protestant and a young teenager Aussie SSPX supporters. But I am still working now. Angelic Doctor seldom comment nowadays. I am still far from a saint. I only hope to just scrap through the gates Purgatory and then the gates of heaven. 😅
Commenting indeed takes up a lot of time. But sometimes I have no choice because of the rubbish written.
@@marietav7342 this Evangelical has been street preaching in major cities of Italy.
This video shows him hurling the usual Prottie accusations against Catholic teaching infront of Vatican. This is like someone coming to the front of my door and shit infront of the house
I have left Intelligently nasty comment directly to him twice. So far he hasn't rebuke back at me. I hope he does.
ua-cam.com/video/ZJzSExPcUPU/v-deo.html
What's the point of going to Latin mass that you don't understand?
Get out of USA and look at the world.
I would like missionaries in developing countries to discuss with Latin fans.
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I thought the same thing once. But there are booklets that have the words for you if you would like that, but also, it creates a transcendence Which allows you to enter into prayer very good very deeply and the worship of God very deeply. But it's a very deep kind of prayer that a lot of people don't understand or aren't accustomed to. It took some getting used to for me. Just my thoughts.
Yes, I wonder how the missionaries did for millennia without the Novus Ordo, all those who evangelized the New World. St Francis Xavier, etc 🤔Also, the Mass is not about you, it's about God, it's about the sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. Oh sorry, I forgot you are talking about Novus Ordo Mass, ok I understand your point then.
Latin is an anointed language, so are ancient Hebrew and Greek. Demons hate these 3 languages.
@@chaldeang7687 Correct, plus the 3 of them were on the Cross (the 3 of them are on the Mass of All Times)
@@chaldeang7687
I have very Catholic friends from India. Worship is being done in many languages there. Thanks to V2. All of these languages have their own exorcists in their respective diocese using local languages........India is the best example to compare with when comes to anointed languages. BTW Jesus mother tongue was Aramaic.
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Hi catholic truth (hope you say hi to me)
@humble Pius Peter. Hello ! Bryan has fallen ill from Covid 19 two days ago. This video was done about 1 month ago. Let's pray for his recovery.
Hello humble Pius
@@jeremiahong248 my beloved this video was done 14 hours ago if he has fallen ill why catholic truth would be making videos
@@humblepiuspeter7750 this video was done 1 month ago and is just published.
You can go to "community" and check out the announcement that Bryan is down with Covid
@@jeremiahong248 you are right my beloved he really is suffering with COVID 19 please pray for him my beloved Jeremiah
We actually had the bizentine rite priests.
Where’s the rest of this interview?
It's the next video before this one on our channel. ua-cam.com/video/AlMquHnwpc8/v-deo.html
@@CatholicTruthOfficial Hi Bryan ! This guy has done the great insult to Catholicism but preaching against the Church infront of Vatican. Would you like to do a rebuke video? Of all the Catholic channels I think you are most suited to do it. You have the fire and grit to take on any heretic for the truth.
Thanks a lot !
Here comes the militans....sign Jesus literally told the apostles to take it and eat it. I am pretty sure they didn't have Jesus feed it to each of him in the mouth. I don't get why it's such a big deal. Receive in Tongue or by hand. As long as we receive Jesus in reverance. Good grief on how people are being so petty to one another when we should be Loving one another.
I can't understand how Novus Ordo mass is considered disrespectful.
That hasn't been me experience. Certainly I can't recall Sunday mass as otherwise always being solemn and dignified.
Communion on the hand is no less solemn but it does give a lot of control of the precious host to the recipient..... And they are not often solemn enough.
Well if you go to a Latin Mass, you will see that everyone is very much dressed up, whereas the new mass, everyone is in jeans and T shirts and shorts many times. There's little reverence, little respect, and little understanding of why people are even there. If you go to a Latin Mass, Everyone receives communion mealing and on the tongue And then goes back to their pew and prays fervently. Whereas people in the new mass Do not receive it reverently, and don't even usually understand why they're receiving it at all. The music At a Latin Mass is beautiful and transcendent. Whereas most of the music in the new Mass is terrible, down-to-earth, very ordinary, and doesn't lift your mind or your heart to God.
None of this says anything about all of the abuses that have happened over the last 40 years in the new mass as well. Where people took a lot of liberties. People adding words to the mass and parts to the mass that don't belong there. Deleting other parts of the mass that should be there. Changing the prayers, and other sorts of abuses. The new Mass definitely needs to be reformed in many places. Those are some thoughts off the top of my head. :)
@@CatholicTruthOfficial I think most of your criticism is aimed at mass goers rather than the mass itself. In some cases rightly so, imo.
Where I attend, if the celebration of mass were non liturgical I would be the first to complain to the Bishop, Thankfully here, the ordinary form mass is conducted in a dignified manner.
Can I just say you these discussions are for Rome and we traditional catholica are to follow what the Magisterium decides. Just go to Mass in your parish and stop these snobbish discussions.✝️🙏💒
Perfect comment
I love the Novis Ordo Mass. Other people who love the Latin Mass can keep it. I have attended a few of them and it’s not for me!
I also prefer the N.O., but if you’re going to be nasty and attack the Latin Mass, maybe you should learn to spell “Novus Ordo” first.
You are the kind of person who gives Catholics a bad name.
@@b.j.andtheaffordables4979 Absolutely! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@@b.j.andtheaffordables4979 I was not being nasty about it. I said my simple opinion directly and that is all. I simply said that the Latin Mass is not for me. You are giving Catholics a bad name with your negativity. I know the difference between the English Mass and The Latin Mass. I didn’t put anyone down here and so you should not be putting me down. That is uncalled for.
@@Bergoglios_Bad_Lung Same comment above from me applies to you as well!
@@geraldineekhator5428 Please get help, Geraldine. I’ll pray for you.
Hocus pocus
Hocus pocus is a movie.
@@CatholicTruthOfficial 😉
Are y'all tryin to be satanic, or just naive?