So, what's your favorite part of Romulan lore? Let me know down below! BTW -- The first 1,000 people to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/orangeriver02221
It's fantastic! Thank you thousand times. Please, continue with such nasterpieces. I can't stop myself to think about all the informations from your video, thank you verry verrry much.
I known they aren't canon, but I love Diane Duane's books. My favorite episode is Enterprise Incident. The Romulans were my favorit Star Trek aliens from the Original series and the books - not as much in Next Generation, DS9, etc. Although I do like their come back in Discovery and Pickard.
I really hope they bring forth the very cooperative Romulan Republic depicted in Star Trek Online as canon at some point. Where Spock's former Romulan assistant D'Tan takes the the reigns as the people's political leader.
When Spock (TOS) seduced that lady Romulan where the Enterprise steals a Romulan cloaking device and uses it (breaking the established canon, changing the rules, that a ship having such a device must direct all power except life support and sublight engines to use it thus explaining why they must drop it to fire any weapons or use any shields but I digress), the Romulans having Vulcan-like psychic abilities was hinted at... Vulcan abilities were, up to then, limited to touch range (pretty much still are now). They used such touch in... enhancing and-or replacing... sexual contact. So, what was implied, was that if a Romulan had a Vulcan's discipline, they would more or less be Vulcans. Also, the Mintakans, an Agrarian-era cousin to Vulcans could be explained by the same separatists that spawned the Romulans... landing on some M-class planet, melting down all their technology, and creating something akin to MKS's "The Villiage" as a colony where all the children born into it would never know their high-tech origins. TNG's alteration of their warp core being based upon artificially created black holes was a cool twist and would explain why they never had any interest in other interstellar being's warp drives, probably seeing antimatter-matter use as unstable as we see an artificially contained singularity is. I mean, how would they use wormholes or transwarp conduits without imploding the thing they are traveling through? Meh... I'm sure there's lots of technobabble to justify that, like putting a hole in a hole full of holes without breaking reality itself.
Seeing as how Romulans and Vulcans can no longer receive Ribosomes from each other but Worf a Klingon was a compatible donor I think it isn't a stretch to assume the Romulans played with genetic engineering in their early history quite a bit.
@@carrollsanders9376 that actually makes sense maybe it works the opposite for other species or perhaps they found a klingon and since they are very strong the romulans wanted to use that and thus experimented with their own people and a klingon
The Mintakans, described as a proto-Vulcan race in TNG also had prominent forehead ridges. So the evolutionary aspect of the feature still is supported by canon.
the racial civil war is the most apt theory, and the most elegant one. Even post-Surak, and especially in the Enterprise series, Vulcans have shown a racist disdain for other species, and a fixation on cultural purity, i.e. being a "proper Vulcan"... such as T'Pol's problems with arranged marriage, and numerous others throughout all series... Enough canon elements exist to support the notion of a racial civil war, I think.
Vulcan had nuclear war, just like Earth. Maybe it also had eugenics war, just like Earth? Maybe they overlapped and blurred together in confusing ways, just like Earth? Vulcans have superior strength, speed, endurance, intelligence - along with a peculiar restraint of overwhelming emotions, aggression, arrogance. Just like human augments. "Racial war" taken to extremes. A species fighting vs the superior species it engineered from itself. If they cannot coexist in the same world then one must flee or die.
@@SBezmy Maybe even a species civil war. I'm of the camp that thinks the Romulans were always a separate species from Vulcans, they just considered themselves one since they were each others closest relatives. Think if Neanderthals, Denisovans, and Homo heidelbergensis were still alive today. We share many similarities but we also have enough differences to make us all visually distinct from each other, like our small to flat brow ridges on average compared to the large brow ridges all three species had.
@@sonikku956 I would like that, however the Romulans have both ridged and non-ridged individuals, while Vulcans do not. We’re probably over-analyzing, the lore always established the Vulcan-Romulan schism as an ideological conflict, and the shows’ makeup budgets over the decades are to blame for the rest :D god, I annoyed myself with that one.
Sublight generation ships would have undoubtedly been subject to massive amounts of mutation-inducing radiation. Combine that with smaller initial gene pools and you would get an amplifying founder effect for things like pronounced head ridges. Even in just a few thousand years.
A perfectly good explaination. It could also be supported by the ridges being thought of as "attactive" for a time and people with them having more children.
That is really an elegant solution! And the Romulans' appearance in TOS can be explained in that we didn't really see very many Romulans at all. In Balance of Terror most of them were wearing helmets - even in Enterprise Incident we didn't see very many. I was also very glad ST Picard showed both ridged and non-ridged Romulans - and the ridges varied in prominence among the individuals. This further supports the idea that the ridges are a trait that varies over the entire species.
SOUNDS nice, but the truth is that any deleterious effects (which they would be; such things are hardly EVER beneficial) would result in a non-viable population.
Well, except for the scientific fact that such hard radiation without out electromagnetic field and atmosphere to protect us leads to massive cancer and deterioration, not spidey powers. Natural selection happens over thousands of generations, not a long ride. That's why we send drones now. Whatever these creatures did (will do? will have been done?) they inflicted it on themselves. Like the portrayal of the Augments in STE S4. The road to hell is full of good intentions.
My take on Romulans, Remans, and forehead-Vs is that the Remans were the indigenous inhabitants of the planet Romulus, and when the Vulcans (or Debrune) landed on the planet, they interacted with the native Remans in a similar way to how Europeans interacted with native Americans - a lot of exploitation, and some intermarriage. After the first few generations on the planet, there comes to be a mixed population, of some still pure-blooded Vulcans, some pure-blooded Remans, and layers of "mestizo" castes of people with various degrees of mixed heritage. After a while, there's a backlash and racial codes introduce a "species bar" above which a person is considered "Romulan", and below which one is considered "Reman". Later still, after the Romulan population has grown and now needs off-world resources, the Remans are ethnically cleansed from their original homeworld and shipped off as slaves on the planet Remus. Without new Reman stock entering the gene-pool, the Romulan population begins to look a lot more consistently Vulcan, except for the pronounced forehead-V on some people with any Reman ancestry, which remains a stubbornly dominant feature. So in their natural state, Romulans have a diverse spectrum of forehead morphologies - basically like as is depicted on Picard, (and this can even be regionally varied as well, if you want to justify the comment in Picard about the V-forehead being characteristic of Romulan northerners) - but then politics gets into it... Smooth-forehead Romulans represent an elite blue-blood class who never interbred with the Remans, while the majority V-forehead Romulans are characteristic of the everyday masses. As these two factions rise and fall in power, the ever-fickle Romulans undergo cosmetic surgery to make sure they look like they belong to dominant faction. So in the Enterprise era, Romulus was in a more democratic phase, and so smooth-foreheads would implant Vs in their heads, but by the TOS era, there'll have been an aristocratic reaction, and V-foreheads will have had their foreheads surgically smoothened, and so on. At any time though, it would never be entirely out of the ordinary for someone to be walking around with a counter-hegemonic forehead, hence why when Spock is on Romulus in Unification, he doesn't feel any need to apply a forehead prosthesis when walking around in public. Once Romulus explodes and the Star Empire implodes, the impetus for doing all this collapses, and you see a lot more of the natural forehead variation. Yes, I've given this some thought...
"Smooth-forehead Romulans represent an elite blue-blood class who never interbred with the Remans..." not including every single member of the Romulan senate, including the Praetor, that was taken out in Nemesis.
@@shanenolan8252 My point was that the notion that smooth-headed Romulans represent the upper class is belied by the fact that there were none in their senate.
@@Raja1938 none in nemesis Senate, but in deep space 9 and tng there were . The proconsul and preator ( neral ) had the forhead , and the senator with spock in tng .didn't they . I thought the assassinationed preator had them as well. , either way there is form of cast system in romulan society and the remans
My theory on the forehead ridges is that those are actually sinuses. Makes sense for their position and shape. So these Vulcans settle the Romulus, with some of them having gene variation for large sinuses which causes the ridged appearance. It could be a recessive or cumulative (like skin pigmentation in humans) gene. And the group that settles up north is exposed to colder air, or even some specific air pollutants. So if you have a gene you are less likely to catch pneumonia, are in over all healthier , and as a result you develop into a strong and handsome person that gives you better chance of getting some. And the gene spreads, and if both your parents have gene, you get bigger and better sinuses. And repeat that over generations and you still have the same species, but with a regional variation in genotype/ phenotype. That's kinda how white skin evolved in Europe as well, in a relatively short amount of time.
Fan theory: The time of Surak was the Vulcan's version of the Eugenics Wars. The proto-vulcan race dabbled with Genetic Engineering and the various Vulcan offshoot races are the result. Current Vulcans are descended from their version of Augments that interbred with proto-vulcans over the centuries creating today's Vulcan race. This also explains why the Vulcans supported the Federation ban on Genetic engineering
Maybe the Vulgan genetic engineering also led to an augment virus equivalent to that which effected the Klingons, which eliminated the forehead ridges all proto-Vulcans used to have.
I suspect not, as Romulans are shown to be more free with their emotions, even somewhat flirty at times, This to me suggests they're more open to romance while the vulcans try to shy away from their emotions and live almost a monk like lifestyle. So I think Romulans engage in sex in a somewhat similar tendency as humans and that prevents Pon Farr while most Vulcans only engage for procreation and thus get the build up of hormones that leads to Pon Farr, there might be exceptions to this leading to the occasional Vulcan that doesn't get it and the occasional Romulan who does. I'm just guessing though.
Ponn Farr was a side-effect of the Vulcans turning to logic and suppressing their emotions. That's never been explicitly stated in any episode, but strongly implied by none of the Vulcan-like species in the series suffering this effect.
The Mintakans a "Proto-Vulcan" species have Romulan style head ridges so there is that. It's also probably possible that the head ridges are a recessive trait and the prevalence of it in Romulans/Vulcan Diaspora could be down to the Founder's Effect where a large number of those who left carried the recessive gene allowing it to be expressed in much greater frequency than on Vulcan (where the dominate genes giving a flatter forehead probably drown out the recessive brow ridges gene in all but very rare cases). Brow ridges might have even become a sign of status in Romulan culture and been selected for leading to it being expressed even more among the Romulans. At least that's my headcanon ideas anyways.
Well, that is a better explanation than a previous one on this thread at any rate. Actually, that is not bad. We know Vulcans were very war-like at that time, plus resources were scarce. A double threat. Maybe the ridged-kind were looked down upon and not thought quite worthy of Surak's teachings and so were the exact ones to go off and make their own colony. It is not inconceivable that those who became Romulan would carry the same philosophy which was natural at that time even though those who stayed as Vulcan had moved away from it. We frequently see even today that a man who feels slighted does not necessarily want to make things equal for all but wants to get his revenge by slighting others. Fear also plays a large component in this.
@@lexiburrows8127 Other way of looking at it, Surak followers were explorers while Romulans are expansionists. Also at my last RPG war gaming shop from 13years ago we debated by playing other games and Star Wars of the dangers of orbital kinetic impact rods, control of space power cause no government would send of exiles in a craft that could suicide their planet at 1/10th of c. In our collective view the Romulan won, sneered at the losers and left them to their slow radiation death. Try figuring out need coupling to maintain a stable gene pool that could roll over into a stellar empire within a few centuries. Other than arguing over what sub light speed the ships traveled, rule of thumb stated in the show max sub light impulse speed is 1/4th of c. Which at max is 1 light year pre year of travel, and that is still very slow. In that regards many Romulans were still left behind after the Surak war. My gaming shop wasn't into Grups Strek Trek system rules so we used Star Wars instead. First joke: Vulcan Merchants. Not all Vulcan merchants are Romulan spies, just some of them. But at least a Romulan will smile as they screw you over in a trade deal. a.) Any Romulan merchant is regarded as an imperial scout, any way you have to turn over your flight navigation computer as State property to maintain you trade permit. Other than that many Romulans do get .. around .. Vulcan, also to get along with their blood cousins. Who could been in D&D treated as multiclass ranger/psionists. As for Star Wars they be scout/force adepts. b.) The Star Fleet/ Federation and the Romulan Star Empire is in truth the Vulcan Empire, Vulcans have two branches of government to develop the industrial war complex. c.) Klingon ambassador yells at the Vulcan ambassador, " The Federation is a human empire ! " The Vulcan sigh, " We are doing our best for the humans not to think they are one. " d.) There is an independent family/nation of Vulcan Romulan merchants' information brokens controlling politics and trade behind the scenes. One sect branch is the source of tales across many worlds of .. Elf/elves. F-ckers think they are a bunch of comedians. e.) Romulans are still very .. touch .. empathic. When they try to strangle you with their hands, you know they are not happy with you at the moment.
I did notice Sarek’s skull in Picard S2E2 had the ridges, so perhaps the smooth-headed ones are actually just ones with extra padding. Fleshy forehead padding. Sarek obviously never looked “ridged” himself, but it would tie together the Mintakans and the range of different prominences on the Romulans. Plus it matches their higher, pointier brow-line, so it could just be a very pronounced brow muscle and supporting bone, with varying degrees of skin padding as mentioned.
Perhaps the Romulans with ridges were cosmetic like head binding was prevalent in many earth cultures. Maybe they found a way to stimulate bone or tissue growth in children to manifest the ridges as a sign of high status.
I can't remember which book - but she wrote "Spock's World" and the "Rihannsu series" ( "My Enemy, My Ally", "The Romulan Way", "Swordhunt", "Honor Blade", and "The Empty Chair"). I loved all of her books. I would think it was either "Spock's WOrld" or "The Romulan Way".
The journey through space and cramped space ships would have most likely been arduous, they may have had to make genetic modifications to survive the journey, or it may be genetic because of the ethnicity of the Vulcans who left, or it may because of having a more protein-rich diet, there are so many explanations for the ridges. Though not all Romulans have them, they do give a distinctive look.
Surely the brow ridges would be best explained by the _founder effect._ The point is that presumably the group of Romulans who original left Vulcan to found the original Romulan empire would have been a far smaller population than the Vulcan's who remained on Vulcan. Any small sample from a population has a tendency to not be representative of the whole population, so any unusual characteristics that happened to randomly be prevalent in the original Romulans would then proceed to become the basis for the whole Romulan empire, including perhaps a predisposition for brow ridges which may be a rare recessive trait among Vulcans. It is the same thing that happens when a family inbreeds. When a small population does not mix its genes with the broader population, peculiar deformities tend to appear. For example, consider the famous Habsburg jaw.
exactly! also atomic radiation from war and radiation from space travel exposure and then the environmental pressures of adapting to a completely different planet is more than enough to cauae extreme genetic mutation and variance in biology from the vulcans.
The Memory Alpha article "Saavik" states: The script for Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan notes that, "Lt. Saavik is young and beautiful. She is half Vulcan and half Romulan ..."
I was thinking that maybe the forehead ridges could have been due to Romulans tampering with similar viruses as to what caused the Klingons to lose their ridges, as seen in Enterprise. The only issue with that theory however, is that Romulans in Enterprise had ridges. Perhaps they played around with similar viruses before the one that inflicted the Klingons surfaced. Until there is a canon explanation, we'll never know for sure.
I think it’s just a mutation that some have. Of course it was cheaper in the 60’s but as an in universe explanation look at pardek I don’t he had very pronounced ridges
Iv always wanted to see the enterprise crew go thru the Earth Romulan war. Great concept that the culture that helped bring us into the warp era and helped form the federation also had an offshoot that we had to go to war with. It’d of been great!
@@shanenolan8252 there’s a couple guys on here that did some pretty cool break downs. I think VGM did a good one! I’d just like to see it in action. 🖖🏼
I have to say that I vastly prefer Spock's World's take on Vulcan history and the Romulan split: it wasn't atomic weaponry, but immense psychic power, strong enough to shake planets, that the ancient Vulcans warred with. Surrak's teachings tended to lead to quieter, less destructive psychic powers. Vulcan psionics - their great sorceries - were emotionally-driven, so controlling emotions meant they could do certain things more reliably, but less powerfully. The Romulans were a faction that embraced their powerful "magical" abilities, and left Vulcan to cultivate them away from the poisonous teachings of Surrak that sought to rob them of it. Tragically (or perhaps luckily for everyone else), their psychically-gifted members died off in plagues and other hardships on the way, leaving Romulans without even the powers Vulcans still have.
There is a novel based on this theory called the lost years about a "mind master" named zakal the terrible, probably the most powerful of them all and it was only after his death that surak was able to unite them. very well written in parts though overall it was not that well developed. but i liked it. The description of his abilities was horrifying, "the most powerful and feared mind lord in all of vulcan who couldreduce his enemies to cinders by willing it". But spock also mentions that none of the mind masters left with the Romulans. except S'task , suraks closest disciple. That being said, the Romulans had some psychic abilities but vastly reduced.
FOR ORANGE RIVER: Author Diane Duane, In one of her early star trek paperback books, did a history of the Vulcan exodus from Vulcan of those who disagreed with the teachings of Surak and what happened to them on their journey; it was not a nice and pleasant journey. I can not remember the title, though I have it packed in a box somewhere. Can anyone reading this remember the title?
That novel is "The Romulan Way". I still have a copy of it, and in my opinion it's one of the best TOS novels written. It has a rich backstory on the Romulans as well as Vulcan history around the time of the diaspora (her other novel "Spock's World" goes even deeper into Vulcan lore). I know a number of Star Trek fans consider the old TOS novels to be apocryphal/non canon, but I'd argue that with all of the inconsistencies across the TV series and movies from TNG onward (and I love all of them though not all at the same level), the older novels shouldn't be considered any less canon than what has been produced more recently.
Yes. 'The Romulan Way', as another poster has already said. For those not familiar, it is a story set in T.O.S. 'present' with the back-history of the Romulans and the description of the 'Sundering' alternating amongst the chapters.
Thanks for saving me all that typing. Diane Duane was one of the best Original Series script writers. She then wrote some novels that were lengthy and detailed to blockbuster movie quality after The Wrath of Khan. "My Enemy, My Ally" circa 1985, was part one of "The Romulan Way" which turned out to be The Rhiannsu Way or something. A more sympathetic look at a very alien culture. There were some great novels and great characters in those mid-80s books, the long ones, not just short direct to paperback ones. Several of the outstanding novelists like Greg Bear, Anne (A. C.) Crispin, John M. Ford, and Diane Carey produced novels of high quality and consistency. I thought Carey's novel "Dreadnought" and sequel "Battlestations" would have made a great movie length script with Piper and friends as the next gen.
@@walken31st I vastly prefer Diane Duane's novels over anything that isn't TOS, when it comes to Vulcan and Romulan history. The forehead ridges were stupid, as were the identical hairstyles (yeah, I know the Vulcan men all have the same style, but the women at least had dressier hairstyles). And the insane shoulder pads? DUMB. I can't take TNG/DS9-era Romulans seriously.
My theory on the forehead ridges and other oddbal ltraits such as the blood typing more closely matching klingon than vulcan would be gene manipulation. the push for this is quite simple. As exiles from Vulcan, once Pon Far hit they're screwed. So there is a definite and pressing push towards genetic engineering and modification. that and the time travelign from Vulcan to eventually settle would have caused mutations from imperfect radiation shielding. Drift between colony ships, and so on. It's likely only comparitively recently that they have tried a more measured genetic engineering program as opposed to eugenics based population modification.
Pon Farr hits Vulcans because of suppression of their instincts. The Romulans never submitted to Surak's lifestyle philosophies, so wouldn't have suffered from the associated ailment. I do agree however that mutations and genetic intervention would still have occurred during their long journey and following their resettlement.
How could Romulans have migrated from Vulcan thousands of years before and it not be known by all Vulcans? Spock was perplexed when he first saw them and speculated on their common ancestry in the early season 1 episode when they first meet. If people left Earth and moved to a different planet to settle and colonize, wouldn’t we all know?
I actually like the idea that Romulans weren't *directly* split from Vulcans but were still from a common ancestors like the Neanderthals were for us. It just make sense considering some of the physical and mental differences.
That was awesome man! And, indeed there is more to the Romulans (and other cousin races) than I was aware. Loved the "Yankees" comment too lol ... Always good to hear a UA-camr who, like me doesn't have any accent and sounds normal (unlike them folks on th' TV and wut not) ... Definitely enjoyed the video my friend! Keep on producing amazing videos please sir!
All I know is the Remens were the true people of Romulus . When the exiled Vulcans arrived, the kicked these aliens off to Remus. So, the Remens would live in the constant shadow of Romulus. These new people would now become Romulans and form an empire.
From the Star Trek novella The Romulan Way by Diane Dueane. There was a major cultural falling out led by one of Surek's "disciples" (can't find his name) who led an off world movement of Vulcans who did not wish to follow the tenets of logic per Surek. It was known as The Sundering and major spoiler alert just before the Praetor existence who took control of the Romulan's home planet after a hundred years and after the settling of their primary home world the Disciple was assassinated during a gathering of the Romulan assembly and in his dying breath voiced a prophetic saying about the destiny of the Romulan species.
Yes. The novels you refer to are "My Enemy, My Ally" and its sequel "The Romulan Way" by Diane Duane. A sympathetic look at a very alien culture calling themselves Rhihana as I remember. There were lots of good pocket paperbacks after The Wrath Of Khan. One I still remember fondly was "Dreadnought" and its sequel "Battlestations" by Diane Carey. I wore them out. 😉
The novel "The Romulan Way" explains why there are no telepathic abilities among the Romulans. The colonists used a technique called "boot-strapping" to give a speed boost to their sub-light ships by harnessing the mental abilities of an "adept", but ended up killing the adept. The long journey from Vulcan caused them to burn through their population of mental adepts, thus removing them from the gene pool.
I love how The Romulan Way shows that the Romulans aren't evil, they are just very paranoid for good reason. Their first contact was with the Orions, who came to Vulcan offering peace, but really meant the other thing. After the split, the first contact for the Romulans was with humans, who also came offering peace, but the Romulans didn't want to take any chances this time.
I always figured the Vulcans had basic warp drive when the Time of Awakening was happening. Based on what is said in Enterprise, it would still take decades for a ship to travel 100 light years at Warp 1. Given how devastated Vulcan was post war, I could understand that space travel wasn't a priority. Or maybe the country that represented the Romulans developed warp and never shared the technology with the Followers of Surak and they rediscovered the technology clearing ruins centuries later. On Earth, Warp Drive was invented in the US. Without first contact I could see them hoarding the technology and we are supposed to have better control of our emotions sans logic.
@@madflavour8548 really? You come here and comment on a year old comment of mine, with your incorrect spelling and and insult me by telling me to go read myself. I wanted Star Trek to make more episodes with stories about the Debrune because there is like one episode commenting on them. It’s not an expansive storyline across multiple episodes, just one episode.
@@ThePoopsmith-12345 a very immature response do you like me what I wanted to learn about the romulans ferengi Klingons I dedicate 12 hours a day to reading on these subjects
True, they still are Vulcans. There are human societies that haven't had contact with each other for way more than 2000 years (until recently, historically speaking).
If Coto or Sussman had his way-had a 5th season of "Enterprise" were allowed to continue, an episode might've seen Cdr. T'Pol discovering that her father was a Romulan-which might have explained her emotions that lay buried as her mother stated in 'Awakenings'. Still, though Vulcans didn't know what their Vulcan ancestors became as Romulans, would T'Les been likely to mate with someone who looked like V'Las or Stehl seen in 'Kir Shara'? I think she might've meant just the ancient Vulcan emotions before Surak taught them logic. Still, it might've made an interesting story as T'Pol might have discovered that if her father was a Romulan, he might've tried to kidnap her once to later start a colony called Hellguard, but changed his mind and disappeared, only to be found by her and the crew somewhere. Just my ideas.
Think we need to clear something up. Romulans are the original civilization of Vulcan. It was Surak and his followers that drove them off world. It's Romulans who are the ancestors of Vulcans, not the other way around.
In Roman folklore, Romulus and Remus we're newborn orphan twin boys a shewolf had suckled. They grew to found Roma (Roma), out of which rose the Roman Empire. Star Trek borrowed this, naming a binary star system Romulus-Remus, round which the Romulan Empire centred. In the TOS first-season episode "Balance of Terror", the dialogue introduced that the Romulans likely were an offshoot of the Vulcans. [Editorial note: the following paragraph must descend behind the subsequent one; however, I lack the means to effect this.] The Shin-zon storyline of Star Trek: Nemesis (2002, Paramount, Stuart Baird, Jerry Goldsmith) departed from this canon (I believe the Kelvin timeline narrative did, too, though that botch is not canon from conception to execution). In TNG two-part episode "Reunification", Ambassador Spock (Leonard Nimoy) discreetly travelled to the Romulan home world, and remained, in his effort to foster an underground movement toward reunification with their Vulcan kinfolk, and away from their long militaristic, autocratic culture.
Note that "she-wolf" or "Lupa" in Latin did not always mean a literal wild canine. The term also denoted a low-class sex worker. If the legend has a basis in truth, Romulus and Remus were likely nursed by a prostitute rather than a wolf.
You may have hit the nail on the head on why the Romulans have different appearances. Generation ships. They may not of had time to pick and choose who got on board the ships. And had to take all of their people with out any DNA screening. So all kinds of recessive genes could have been on too much of one or two ships. And with them being a closed system. A bit of inbreeding can happen. That and radiation leaks.
In Vulcan society circa 2150, mind-melding is seen as a perversion, a disgusting abberation; akin to the view of homosexuality in the 80's/90's/idiots are still talking like that now. This would suggest that those with telepathic ability were a minority at one point, thus the Rihannsu that left Vulcan would have been, statistically speaking, incapable of melding or other psionic abilities. Since melding became a social issue around 2150-2160, it indicates that it was known of for a long time (Oscar Wilde was jailed for gay. Gay decriminalised in the UK some 70-odd years later). I posit that Vulcan psionism is a product of the mental disciplines taught by Surak, techniques that allowed them to unlock dormant brain functions. The Remans have a far simpler explanation: it's dark and loud in the mines. You can't see to lip read, and you can't hear crap-all. Dormant abilities could have been awakened thusly: in Nemesis, we see that at least one of them is a more capable telepath than most Vulcans, who are limited to touch-telepathy, for which I have no explanation. Reman's gotta reem, I suppose
I will often watch these videos before I go to bed sometimes watching the same video several times. I had to stop watching because the outro music was a lil too loud and would wake me up if I happened to fall asleep (I often get insomnia). If the outro music was lower or eliminated as I don't really see a need for it anyway, you would have a sub and at least a few views on or videos from me and others like me. I do like the content and prefer your style over some of the other ST youtubers like Lore Reloaded (Dude is too trollish) or TrekYards.
Thanks for creating this video. It is very informative, and it has some intriguing theories. I do not have as much knowledge, but I do love the Romulans. A long time ago, I created my own theory about their origins. Just for fun, here it is: After the Vulcan civil war, the pre-Romulans fled the planet. They were defeated, weak, and desperate. Fortunately for them, the Preservers (or a similar group) decided to help them, though they possibly disguised themselves as space-faring merchants. In return for modest offerings from the pre-Romulans, the Preservers gave them crucial assistance (possibly temporarily), such as: faster-than-light travel; cloaking devices; a star map to the beautiful and healthy planet that would become known as Romulus; etc. And there was one more important gift: Roman culture. Realizing that the pre-Romulans needed a strong and organized culture, the Preservers gave them the knowledge of the glory of Ancient Rome. Well, if nothing else, these things are fun to think about. 🙂 Jolan tru.
everyone always disagrees with the way I write these things. for example I wrote that the bejorans destroyed all of cardassia then left for the stars leaving the cardassians to rebuild. while they settled bejor. in my version of the vulcan story the vulcans were divided when a magic minority of three percent waged war on the rest of them leaving only the vulcans who could escape for survivors.
The mintakans that are an earlier offshoot of Vulcans had forehead ridges. So it seems the Vulcans were the ones to loose it. Also half human Vulcan' s and half human Romulans look pretty much the same. So it seems the ridges aren't a dominant trait. Just a though.
best explanation to me is that the Romulans interbred with the native population on Romulus and the Remans interbred with a darkness dwelling species on Remus. After a couple centuries of rebuilding on Romulus they ventured to their moon and found people very different to themselves and promptly enslaved them. This too has been explored in beta canon.
When you show clips from various episodes you should footnote them as to their source so people can go back and look them up on their own. In my case some of your clips seem to be episodes I’ve missed,
The Romulans are Vulcans before genetic engineering. Just like on Earth they had a war about this issue but the genetically modified won this war on Vulcan. This is why the Vulcans are so strong and are unable to handle their emotions....just like human augments. Those Vulcans that lost took with them the pre logic warlike Vulcan culture.
"All the people who look a certain way left the planet or were exterminated, but it totally wasn't genocide and we are the good guys" - Vulcan High Command, probably
I kind of like the idea that the forehead ridges are the result of cosmetic surgery. It wouldn't be THAT weird compared to some of the body modifications humans have made in our diverse histories!
Ironically, things had spun completely out of control due to the Orion Crime businesses kidnapping and killing some of the intellectual leaders of Vulcan society that Surak's best student had to leave to restrain his breakaway neighbors from running totally amok- neither mentor nor student wished for the seperation nor welcomed it, S'atask deeply regarded his time as Surak's student in a college of sorts to be his idea of what Terrans would refer to as "Heaven"- he loved the courses; but their society was running completely amok and totally out of control as the Vulcans went berserk on their attackers the Orions and virtually wiped out the crime business's fleet and ability to operate.
While forehead ridges may be a bit unrealistic to develop in that short span of time, I don't think there's anything to say it's impossible. As for their psychic abilities, with how paranoid Romulan culture tends to be it wouldn't surprise me to learn that any discovered telepaths became pariahs. Likely killed or exiled to Remus, which would also help explain why some Remans showed stronger abilities than even Vulcans.
Good summary. I liked how you kept tying Romulan history to what was going on at Earth at the time. Really puts the events in context - Romulus was such a busy planet!
Having been a fan of Star Trek since it first aired in 1966, I have watched EVERY series and have read about 96% of the novels and paperbacks. Romulans are actually the descendants of Vulcans who left Vulcan shortly after a global conflict nearly destroyed their world during the time of Surak. Vulcans were as war-like as the Romulans in canon. When the majority of Vulcans started following the teachings of Surak in order to avoid another global conflict, a faction of the Vulcan people chose to leave and settled on two planets which they called Romulus and Remus approximately 5000 years before Earth's Bronze Age. They maintained their martial culture and began building their 'Star Empire'. much of which is mentioned in the novel "Spock's World".
The Romulans had an empire, suggesting after the destruction of their homeworld they still had many fully colonized worlds, why would the end of one planet of theirs turn them into refugees?
Because WRITING that's why. They wanted to destroy and gut a core species for there own purposes and Romulans were just the first on the chopping block.
This also begs another question. What about the Proto-Vulcan society that the Enterprise D encountered on Mintaka III? Would they be some kind of Romulan offshoot?
The description of them as "proto-Vulcan" would mean that they have no common lineage with Vulcans/Romulans. They simply evolved that way because of how similar Mintaka III's environment was with Vulcan. In biology, this is called convergent evolution. Personally though, I prefer thinking of them as descendants of some failed Romulan colony like the Debrune, and somehow lost knowledge of their origins.
@@Raja1938 problem here is that the Mintaka star system is a real one and is 1200 light years away from Earth. Given that the entire circumference of the Vulcan to Neutral zone planets (Debrune) to Romulus is a relatively tight circle of less than a hundred light years, giving support to sublight propulsion, it seems implausible that an offshoot occurred here.
I like how you achieved this conclusion, but I need to point out the Star Trek Voyager book String Theory, Evolution. In this book, the Psionic species called the Nacine whom had created offspring with the Ocampa This would have happened hundreds of thousands of years ago The Nacine could also have been the Outcasts and been the creatures in the spheres Something to think about Also look up KOL - Keeper of the Light
Vulcan and Romulan ship tech, Vulcans and most of the Alphas have wrap drives engines, Romulan ships have blackholes basically and then cloak tech which was before the Klingons.
While completely apocrypha, the game Star Fleet Battles states that as the Earth-Romulan war was officially ended, a few Romulan ships - manned by Remans - were in battle with an Earth ship over Remus. These Romulan ships were operating under communications blackout (normal at the time), and thus did not hear that the cease-fire had been signed. They attacked until the Earth ship went down on Remus, its antimatter detonating, and adding severe background radiation to the world. This caused the Remans something of a negative reputation within the empire. Remans were Romulans that inhabited the sister world, and were known for higher aggression. Such an antimatter detonation would easily explain the tidal lock of the world and mutation of its people. The radiation could easily have spread in smaller amounts across the system, and affected Romulan appearance to a lesser degree.
Concerning the ridges! because the vulcans that left, did so in space vessels with a limited size; They may have met another species along the way, that they used or allied themselves with, in order to increase their gene pool. This would account for some Romulan's having ridges and others not. It would also account for the differences between the Vulcans and the Romulans. In some Romulan's the ridges would be recessive genes, and not in others.
I have always wished that we had gotten a series, or at least a miniseries (on the scale of "The Winds of War") focusing on the Vulcan reformation. Ideally, back when Bruce Gray was still alive; I found his portrayal of Surak quite compelling.
I think I will go with the racial separatism explanation for the Romulan ridges. It also fits well with their authoritarian government. It explains part of their arrogance towards other aliens. However, the smooth headed Vulcans are still smug on the same subject.
If you want to read about Romulans, one author stands above all and her name is Diane Duane. Look for the Rihannsu series (Rihannsu is Romulan for "Romulan").
In the episode where Spock interacts with the Romulan commander, she appears to engage in empathic/telepathic link with Spock. They both touch each other's face the same way when Vulcans engage in telepathic mind
I know it's not canon, but there are books that suggest that the remans were the product of genetic engineering to help them survive on Remus and that the clan left there had telepathic ability where there wasn't as much in those that settled on Romulus, eventually breeding out of them.
I know that Neanderthals were and are the same exact species as modern Cro-Magnon man; and that's because just about every single human alive today has about 1.2% Neanderthal DNA in our genetic makeup, so sometime in about 50,000 years ago, each of us had at least one Neanderthal ancestor, and since our ancestors were fertile, Neanderthals *are* fully the same species as modern man- just simply a different race of human being, but the same kind of creature.
@@nadirjofas3140 Think of it: two self-aware and totally genetically compatible species? That's ridiculous; so no, Neanderthals were and are fully human and the same exact species as Cro-Magnon man... because just about every single human being today has approximately 1.2 % Neanderthal DNA in our systems- and we're fertile, so they couldn't have been two different species, at all, ever.
So, what's your favorite part of Romulan lore? Let me know down below!
BTW -- The first 1,000 people to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/orangeriver02221
It's fantastic! Thank you thousand times. Please, continue with such nasterpieces. I can't stop myself to think about all the informations from your video, thank you verry verrry much.
I known they aren't canon, but I love Diane Duane's books. My favorite episode is Enterprise Incident. The Romulans were my favorit Star Trek aliens from the Original series and the books - not as much in Next Generation, DS9, etc. Although I do like their come back in Discovery and Pickard.
Jolan tru!
I really hope they bring forth the very cooperative Romulan Republic depicted in Star Trek Online as canon at some point. Where Spock's former Romulan assistant D'Tan takes the the reigns as the people's political leader.
When Spock (TOS) seduced that lady Romulan where the Enterprise steals a Romulan cloaking device and uses it (breaking the established canon, changing the rules, that a ship having such a device must direct all power except life support and sublight engines to use it thus explaining why they must drop it to fire any weapons or use any shields but I digress), the Romulans having Vulcan-like psychic abilities was hinted at... Vulcan abilities were, up to then, limited to touch range (pretty much still are now). They used such touch in... enhancing and-or replacing... sexual contact. So, what was implied, was that if a Romulan had a Vulcan's discipline, they would more or less be Vulcans. Also, the Mintakans, an Agrarian-era cousin to Vulcans could be explained by the same separatists that spawned the Romulans... landing on some M-class planet, melting down all their technology, and creating something akin to MKS's "The Villiage" as a colony where all the children born into it would never know their high-tech origins. TNG's alteration of their warp core being based upon artificially created black holes was a cool twist and would explain why they never had any interest in other interstellar being's warp drives, probably seeing antimatter-matter use as unstable as we see an artificially contained singularity is. I mean, how would they use wormholes or transwarp conduits without imploding the thing they are traveling through? Meh... I'm sure there's lots of technobabble to justify that, like putting a hole in a hole full of holes without breaking reality itself.
Seeing as how Romulans and Vulcans can no longer receive Ribosomes from each other but Worf a Klingon was a compatible donor I think it isn't a stretch to assume the Romulans played with genetic engineering in their early history quite a bit.
True, but that incompatibility may have been due to sampling size. Crusher was limited to the Vulcans on board at the time.
@@Raja1938 Or it could be Romulans were exposed to the Augment Virus though the Klingons, and the ridges are a result of that.
@@carrollsanders9376 that actually makes sense maybe it works the opposite for other species or perhaps they found a klingon and since they are very strong the romulans wanted to use that and thus experimented with their own people and a klingon
dont forget they all originate from the same spacy
if if rare it wouldnt be that surprising to have, time to time, matches on that lvl even naturaly
Maybe to get some control of their emotions?
The Mintakans, described as a proto-Vulcan race in TNG also had prominent forehead ridges. So the evolutionary aspect of the feature still is supported by canon.
the racial civil war is the most apt theory, and the most elegant one. Even post-Surak, and especially in the Enterprise series, Vulcans have shown a racist disdain for other species, and a fixation on cultural purity, i.e. being a "proper Vulcan"... such as T'Pol's problems with arranged marriage, and numerous others throughout all series... Enough canon elements exist to support the notion of a racial civil war, I think.
Vulcan had nuclear war, just like Earth. Maybe it also had eugenics war, just like Earth? Maybe they overlapped and blurred together in confusing ways, just like Earth?
Vulcans have superior strength, speed, endurance, intelligence - along with a peculiar restraint of overwhelming emotions, aggression, arrogance. Just like human augments.
"Racial war" taken to extremes. A species fighting vs the superior species it engineered from itself. If they cannot coexist in the same world then one must flee or die.
Finally someone else remembers the Mintakans
@@SBezmy Maybe even a species civil war. I'm of the camp that thinks the Romulans were always a separate species from Vulcans, they just considered themselves one since they were each others closest relatives. Think if Neanderthals, Denisovans, and Homo heidelbergensis were still alive today. We share many similarities but we also have enough differences to make us all visually distinct from each other, like our small to flat brow ridges on average compared to the large brow ridges all three species had.
@@sonikku956 I would like that, however the Romulans have both ridged and non-ridged individuals, while Vulcans do not. We’re probably over-analyzing, the lore always established the Vulcan-Romulan schism as an ideological conflict, and the shows’ makeup budgets over the decades are to blame for the rest :D god, I annoyed myself with that one.
Sublight generation ships would have undoubtedly been subject to massive amounts of mutation-inducing radiation. Combine that with smaller initial gene pools and you would get an amplifying founder effect for things like pronounced head ridges. Even in just a few thousand years.
Lol I was thinking how to put that in to words. I agree.
A perfectly good explaination. It could also be supported by the ridges being thought of as "attactive" for a time and people with them having more children.
That is really an elegant solution! And the Romulans' appearance in TOS can be explained in that we didn't really see very many Romulans at all. In Balance of Terror most of them were wearing helmets - even in Enterprise Incident we didn't see very many. I was also very glad ST Picard showed both ridged and non-ridged Romulans - and the ridges varied in prominence among the individuals. This further supports the idea that the ridges are a trait that varies over the entire species.
SOUNDS nice, but the truth is that any deleterious effects (which they would be; such things are hardly EVER beneficial) would result in a non-viable population.
Well, except for the scientific fact that such hard radiation without out electromagnetic field and atmosphere to protect us leads to massive cancer and deterioration, not spidey powers. Natural selection happens over thousands of generations, not a long ride. That's why we send drones now.
Whatever these creatures did (will do? will have been done?) they inflicted it on themselves. Like the portrayal of the Augments in STE S4. The road to hell is full of good intentions.
My take on Romulans, Remans, and forehead-Vs is that the Remans were the indigenous inhabitants of the planet Romulus, and when the Vulcans (or Debrune) landed on the planet, they interacted with the native Remans in a similar way to how Europeans interacted with native Americans - a lot of exploitation, and some intermarriage. After the first few generations on the planet, there comes to be a mixed population, of some still pure-blooded Vulcans, some pure-blooded Remans, and layers of "mestizo" castes of people with various degrees of mixed heritage. After a while, there's a backlash and racial codes introduce a "species bar" above which a person is considered "Romulan", and below which one is considered "Reman". Later still, after the Romulan population has grown and now needs off-world resources, the Remans are ethnically cleansed from their original homeworld and shipped off as slaves on the planet Remus. Without new Reman stock entering the gene-pool, the Romulan population begins to look a lot more consistently Vulcan, except for the pronounced forehead-V on some people with any Reman ancestry, which remains a stubbornly dominant feature.
So in their natural state, Romulans have a diverse spectrum of forehead morphologies - basically like as is depicted on Picard, (and this can even be regionally varied as well, if you want to justify the comment in Picard about the V-forehead being characteristic of Romulan northerners) - but then politics gets into it... Smooth-forehead Romulans represent an elite blue-blood class who never interbred with the Remans, while the majority V-forehead Romulans are characteristic of the everyday masses. As these two factions rise and fall in power, the ever-fickle Romulans undergo cosmetic surgery to make sure they look like they belong to dominant faction. So in the Enterprise era, Romulus was in a more democratic phase, and so smooth-foreheads would implant Vs in their heads, but by the TOS era, there'll have been an aristocratic reaction, and V-foreheads will have had their foreheads surgically smoothened, and so on. At any time though, it would never be entirely out of the ordinary for someone to be walking around with a counter-hegemonic forehead, hence why when Spock is on Romulus in Unification, he doesn't feel any need to apply a forehead prosthesis when walking around in public. Once Romulus explodes and the Star Empire implodes, the impetus for doing all this collapses, and you see a lot more of the natural forehead variation.
Yes, I've given this some thought...
I believe in the first titan book they said the remans were indigenous to romulus.
"Smooth-forehead Romulans represent an elite blue-blood class who never interbred with the Remans..." not including every single member of the Romulan senate, including the Praetor, that was taken out in Nemesis.
@@Raja1938 that makes sense, an aristocratic senatorial class or patricians , considering they are based on the roman empire
@@shanenolan8252 My point was that the notion that smooth-headed Romulans represent the upper class is belied by the fact that there were none in their senate.
@@Raja1938 none in nemesis Senate, but in deep space 9 and tng there were . The proconsul and preator ( neral ) had the forhead , and the senator with spock in tng .didn't they . I thought the assassinationed preator had them as well. , either way there is form of cast system in romulan society and the remans
My theory on the forehead ridges is that those are actually sinuses. Makes sense for their position and shape. So these Vulcans settle the Romulus, with some of them having gene variation for large sinuses which causes the ridged appearance. It could be a recessive or cumulative (like skin pigmentation in humans) gene. And the group that settles up north is exposed to colder air, or even some specific air pollutants. So if you have a gene you are less likely to catch pneumonia, are in over all healthier , and as a result you develop into a strong and handsome person that gives you better chance of getting some. And the gene spreads, and if both your parents have gene, you get bigger and better sinuses. And repeat that over generations and you still have the same species, but with a regional variation in genotype/ phenotype.
That's kinda how white skin evolved in Europe as well, in a relatively short amount of time.
White skin evolved in Ethiopia and black skin evolved in China are you dumb
Fan theory: The time of Surak was the Vulcan's version of the Eugenics Wars.
The proto-vulcan race dabbled with Genetic Engineering and the various Vulcan offshoot races are the result.
Current Vulcans are descended from their version of Augments that interbred with proto-vulcans over the centuries creating today's Vulcan race.
This also explains why the Vulcans supported the Federation ban on Genetic engineering
Maybe the Vulgan genetic engineering also led to an augment virus equivalent to that which effected the Klingons, which eliminated the forehead ridges all proto-Vulcans used to have.
Do Romulans go through a pon farr like thing, or is that a Vulcan thing?
I suspect not, as Romulans are shown to be more free with their emotions, even somewhat flirty at times, This to me suggests they're more open to romance while the vulcans try to shy away from their emotions and live almost a monk like lifestyle. So I think Romulans engage in sex in a somewhat similar tendency as humans and that prevents Pon Farr while most Vulcans only engage for procreation and thus get the build up of hormones that leads to Pon Farr, there might be exceptions to this leading to the occasional Vulcan that doesn't get it and the occasional Romulan who does. I'm just guessing though.
@@GrimmShadowsII I am giggling. Imagine a Romulan in full on Pon Farr...And the command not knowing what was wrong trying to deal with it. :)
Ponn Farr was a side-effect of the Vulcans turning to logic and suppressing their emotions. That's never been explicitly stated in any episode, but strongly implied by none of the Vulcan-like species in the series suffering this effect.
Romulus looks a little bit like Venus with water.
The Mintakans a "Proto-Vulcan" species have Romulan style head ridges so there is that.
It's also probably possible that the head ridges are a recessive trait and the prevalence of it in Romulans/Vulcan Diaspora could be down to the Founder's Effect where a large number of those who left carried the recessive gene allowing it to be expressed in much greater frequency than on Vulcan (where the dominate genes giving a flatter forehead probably drown out the recessive brow ridges gene in all but very rare cases). Brow ridges might have even become a sign of status in Romulan culture and been selected for leading to it being expressed even more among the Romulans. At least that's my headcanon ideas anyways.
Well, that is a better explanation than a previous one on this thread at any rate. Actually, that is not bad. We know Vulcans were very war-like at that time, plus resources were scarce. A double threat. Maybe the ridged-kind were looked down upon and not thought quite worthy of Surak's teachings and so were the exact ones to go off and make their own colony.
It is not inconceivable that those who became Romulan would carry the same philosophy which was natural at that time even though those who stayed as Vulcan had moved away from it. We frequently see even today that a man who feels slighted does not necessarily want to make things equal for all but wants to get his revenge by slighting others. Fear also plays a large component in this.
I too subscribe to the idea that the romulan ridges are just a side-effect of inbreeding
@@lexiburrows8127 Add to that, maybe those with ridges weren't capable of telepathy.
@@lexiburrows8127 Other way of looking at it, Surak followers were explorers while Romulans are expansionists. Also at my last RPG war gaming shop from 13years ago we debated by playing other games and Star Wars of the dangers of orbital kinetic impact rods, control of space power cause no government would send of exiles in a craft that could suicide their planet at 1/10th of c.
In our collective view the Romulan won, sneered at the losers and left them to their slow radiation death. Try figuring out need coupling to maintain a stable gene pool that could roll over into a stellar empire within a few centuries. Other than arguing over what sub light speed the ships traveled, rule of thumb stated in the show max sub light impulse speed is 1/4th of c. Which at max is 1 light year pre year of travel, and that is still very slow. In that regards many Romulans were still left behind after the Surak war.
My gaming shop wasn't into Grups Strek Trek system rules so we used Star Wars instead.
First joke: Vulcan Merchants.
Not all Vulcan merchants are Romulan spies, just some of them. But at least a Romulan will smile as they screw you over in a trade deal.
a.) Any Romulan merchant is regarded as an imperial scout, any way you have to turn over your flight navigation computer as State property to maintain you trade permit. Other than that many Romulans do get .. around .. Vulcan, also to get along with their blood cousins. Who could been in D&D treated as multiclass ranger/psionists. As for Star Wars they be scout/force adepts.
b.) The Star Fleet/ Federation and the Romulan Star Empire is in truth the Vulcan Empire, Vulcans have two branches of government to develop the industrial war complex.
c.) Klingon ambassador yells at the Vulcan ambassador, " The Federation is a human empire ! "
The Vulcan sigh, " We are doing our best for the humans not to think they are one. "
d.) There is an independent family/nation of Vulcan Romulan merchants' information brokens controlling politics and trade behind the scenes. One sect branch is the source of tales across many worlds of .. Elf/elves. F-ckers think they are a bunch of comedians.
e.) Romulans are still very .. touch .. empathic. When they try to strangle you with their hands, you know they are not happy with you at the moment.
What if... Romulan forehead ridges were a once popular gene therapy to show patriotism by displaying the raptors wings on one's own face?
I did notice Sarek’s skull in Picard S2E2 had the ridges, so perhaps the smooth-headed ones are actually just ones with extra padding. Fleshy forehead padding. Sarek obviously never looked “ridged” himself, but it would tie together the Mintakans and the range of different prominences on the Romulans. Plus it matches their higher, pointier brow-line, so it could just be a very pronounced brow muscle and supporting bone, with varying degrees of skin padding as mentioned.
Got the Skillshare sponsorship going (achievement unlocked 😁) I am going to check Skillshare out and see if I can justify a subscription!
Perhaps the Romulans with ridges were cosmetic like head binding was prevalent in many earth cultures. Maybe they found a way to stimulate bone or tissue growth in children to manifest the ridges as a sign of high status.
I can't remember which book - but she wrote "Spock's World" and the "Rihannsu series" ( "My Enemy, My Ally", "The Romulan Way", "Swordhunt", "Honor Blade", and "The Empty Chair"). I loved all of her books. I would think it was either "Spock's WOrld" or "The Romulan Way".
In another comment, someone said it's The Romunlan Way"
The journey through space and cramped space ships would have most likely been arduous, they may have had to make genetic modifications to survive the journey, or it may be genetic because of the ethnicity of the Vulcans who left, or it may because of having a more protein-rich diet, there are so many explanations for the ridges. Though not all Romulans have them, they do give a distinctive look.
@@jamesabernethy7896 sounds good. Don't know why but I always liked the Romulans.
@@sparkygump More cerebral, plans within plans within lies. I like Klingons too but they are much more direct,with few surprises.
Surely the brow ridges would be best explained by the _founder effect._ The point is that presumably the group of Romulans who original left Vulcan to found the original Romulan empire would have been a far smaller population than the Vulcan's who remained on Vulcan. Any small sample from a population has a tendency to not be representative of the whole population, so any unusual characteristics that happened to randomly be prevalent in the original Romulans would then proceed to become the basis for the whole Romulan empire, including perhaps a predisposition for brow ridges which may be a rare recessive trait among Vulcans.
It is the same thing that happens when a family inbreeds. When a small population does not mix its genes with the broader population, peculiar deformities tend to appear. For example, consider the famous Habsburg jaw.
exactly! also atomic radiation from war and radiation from space travel exposure and then the environmental pressures of adapting to a completely different planet is more than enough to cauae extreme genetic mutation and variance in biology from the vulcans.
When a mommy Romulan loves a daddy Romulan very much, they share a very special "hug"...oh you meant the species 😁
Given their genetic history, you would think that breeding between Romulans and Vulcans can happen.
The Memory Alpha article "Saavik" states:
The script for Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan notes that, "Lt. Saavik is young and beautiful. She is half Vulcan and half Romulan ..."
@@dandeliondown7920 Spock mentions it in a deleted scene: ua-cam.com/video/7rKw66EU5Fc/v-deo.html
🖖😎👍Very nicely well done and very well informatively executed and explained indeed 👌.
I was thinking that maybe the forehead ridges could have been due to Romulans tampering with similar viruses as to what caused the Klingons to lose their ridges, as seen in Enterprise. The only issue with that theory however, is that Romulans in Enterprise had ridges. Perhaps they played around with similar viruses before the one that inflicted the Klingons surfaced. Until there is a canon explanation, we'll never know for sure.
It's funny they looked exactly like Vulcans in Star Trek TOS.
I think it’s just a mutation that some have. Of course it was cheaper in the 60’s but as an in universe explanation look at pardek I don’t he had very pronounced ridges
I've always thought that it could have been the other way around
I'd highly recommend the Rihannsu series of books by Diane Duane. They're so good that I wish they could be absorbed into canon.
There are other vulcanoid offshoots as well like Mintakans, Rigelians and Debrune
Iv always wanted to see the enterprise crew go thru the Earth Romulan war. Great concept that the culture that helped bring us into the warp era and helped form the federation also had an offshoot that we had to go to war with. It’d of been great!
The plan for season 5 of Enterprise was to include the Earth Romulan war.
@@GrimmShadowsII that would be great!
They did have some books on that war . Not bad
@@shanenolan8252 there’s a couple guys on here that did some pretty cool break downs. I think VGM did a good one! I’d just like to see it in action. 🖖🏼
@@freelancenerd4804 yes he did , a very good three part . Breakdown. Agreed
I have to say that I vastly prefer Spock's World's take on Vulcan history and the Romulan split: it wasn't atomic weaponry, but immense psychic power, strong enough to shake planets, that the ancient Vulcans warred with. Surrak's teachings tended to lead to quieter, less destructive psychic powers. Vulcan psionics - their great sorceries - were emotionally-driven, so controlling emotions meant they could do certain things more reliably, but less powerfully.
The Romulans were a faction that embraced their powerful "magical" abilities, and left Vulcan to cultivate them away from the poisonous teachings of Surrak that sought to rob them of it. Tragically (or perhaps luckily for everyone else), their psychically-gifted members died off in plagues and other hardships on the way, leaving Romulans without even the powers Vulcans still have.
There is a novel based on this theory called the lost years about a "mind master" named zakal the terrible, probably the most powerful of them all and it was only after his death that surak was able to unite them. very well written in parts though overall it was not that well developed. but i liked it.
The description of his abilities was horrifying, "the most powerful and feared mind lord in all of vulcan who couldreduce his enemies to cinders by willing it". But spock also mentions that none of the mind masters left with the Romulans. except S'task , suraks closest disciple. That being said, the Romulans had some psychic abilities but vastly reduced.
FOR ORANGE RIVER: Author Diane Duane, In one of her early star trek paperback books, did a history of the Vulcan exodus from Vulcan of those who disagreed with the teachings of Surak and what happened to them on their journey; it was not a nice and pleasant journey. I can not remember the title, though I have it packed in a box somewhere. Can anyone reading this remember the title?
That novel is "The Romulan Way". I still have a copy of it, and in my opinion it's one of the best TOS novels written. It has a rich backstory on the Romulans as well as Vulcan history around the time of the diaspora (her other novel "Spock's World" goes even deeper into Vulcan lore). I know a number of Star Trek fans consider the old TOS novels to be apocryphal/non canon, but I'd argue that with all of the inconsistencies across the TV series and movies from TNG onward (and I love all of them though not all at the same level), the older novels shouldn't be considered any less canon than what has been produced more recently.
@@walken31st What I like also is the glossary at the back of Romulan words.
Yes. 'The Romulan Way', as another poster has already said. For those not familiar, it is a story set in T.O.S. 'present' with the back-history of the Romulans and the description of the 'Sundering' alternating amongst the chapters.
Thanks for saving me all that typing. Diane Duane was one of the best Original Series script writers. She then wrote some novels that were lengthy and detailed to blockbuster movie quality after The Wrath of Khan. "My Enemy, My Ally" circa 1985, was part one of "The Romulan Way" which turned out to be The Rhiannsu Way or something. A more sympathetic look at a very alien culture.
There were some great novels and great characters in those mid-80s books, the long ones, not just short direct to paperback ones.
Several of the outstanding novelists like Greg Bear, Anne (A. C.) Crispin, John M. Ford, and Diane Carey produced novels of high quality and consistency.
I thought Carey's novel "Dreadnought" and sequel "Battlestations" would have made a great movie length script with Piper and friends as the next gen.
@@walken31st I vastly prefer Diane Duane's novels over anything that isn't TOS, when it comes to Vulcan and Romulan history. The forehead ridges were stupid, as were the identical hairstyles (yeah, I know the Vulcan men all have the same style, but the women at least had dressier hairstyles).
And the insane shoulder pads? DUMB. I can't take TNG/DS9-era Romulans seriously.
My theory on the forehead ridges and other oddbal ltraits such as the blood typing more closely matching klingon than vulcan would be gene manipulation. the push for this is quite simple. As exiles from Vulcan, once Pon Far hit they're screwed. So there is a definite and pressing push towards genetic engineering and modification. that and the time travelign from Vulcan to eventually settle would have caused mutations from imperfect radiation shielding. Drift between colony ships, and so on. It's likely only comparitively recently that they have tried a more measured genetic engineering program as opposed to eugenics based population modification.
Pon Farr hits Vulcans because of suppression of their instincts. The Romulans never submitted to Surak's lifestyle philosophies, so wouldn't have suffered from the associated ailment. I do agree however that mutations and genetic intervention would still have occurred during their long journey and following their resettlement.
Great video. Thanks!
How could Romulans have migrated from Vulcan thousands of years before and it not be known by all Vulcans? Spock was perplexed when he first saw them and speculated on their common ancestry in the early season 1 episode when they first meet. If people left Earth and moved to a different planet to settle and colonize, wouldn’t we all know?
I actually like the idea that Romulans weren't *directly* split from Vulcans but were still from a common ancestors like the Neanderthals were for us. It just make sense considering some of the physical and mental differences.
The Romulans came from the makeup department of Paramount Studios in Hollywood, California.
That was awesome man! And, indeed there is more to the Romulans (and other cousin races) than I was aware. Loved the "Yankees" comment too lol ... Always good to hear a UA-camr who, like me doesn't have any accent and sounds normal (unlike them folks on th' TV and wut not) ... Definitely enjoyed the video my friend! Keep on producing amazing videos please sir!
Thank you so much Clint!
All I know is the Remens were the true people of Romulus . When the exiled Vulcans arrived, the kicked these aliens off to Remus. So, the Remens would live in the constant shadow of Romulus.
These new people would now become Romulans and form an empire.
@@johnbockelie3899 Love this theory!
So the Romulans really *are* space Americans? ;)
What are the Romulans' TRUE Origins? Answer: The mind of Gene Roddenberry! Easy-peasy! \_(ツ)_/¯ 😜
The Romulan Commander from the original series third season The Enterprise Incident is HOTTT.
What're their origins? They're breakaway Vulcan colonists; the original series makes that abundantly clear.
Palpatines behind it all!
-Mr Plinkett
I'm so disappointed that the ST franchise never explored a Roman origins or Earth-romulan war movie or series.
From the Star Trek novella The Romulan Way by Diane Dueane. There was a major cultural falling out led by one of Surek's "disciples" (can't find his name) who led an off world movement of Vulcans who did not wish to follow the tenets of logic per Surek. It was known as The Sundering and major spoiler alert just before the Praetor existence who took control of the Romulan's home planet after a hundred years and after the settling of their primary home world the Disciple was assassinated during a gathering of the Romulan assembly and in his dying breath voiced a prophetic saying about the destiny of the Romulan species.
I believe the name your looking for is S’task
@@joshstarkey203 Thank you.
Yes. The novels you refer to are "My Enemy, My Ally" and its sequel "The Romulan Way" by Diane Duane. A sympathetic look at a very alien culture calling themselves Rhihana as I remember.
There were lots of good pocket paperbacks after The Wrath Of Khan. One I still remember fondly was "Dreadnought" and its sequel "Battlestations" by Diane Carey. I wore them out. 😉
The novel "The Romulan Way" explains why there are no telepathic abilities among the Romulans. The colonists used a technique called "boot-strapping" to give a speed boost to their sub-light ships by harnessing the mental abilities of an "adept", but ended up killing the adept. The long journey from Vulcan caused them to burn through their population of mental adepts, thus removing them from the gene pool.
I love how The Romulan Way shows that the Romulans aren't evil, they are just very paranoid for good reason.
Their first contact was with the Orions, who came to Vulcan offering peace, but really meant the other thing.
After the split, the first contact for the Romulans was with humans, who also came offering peace, but the Romulans didn't want to take any chances this time.
I always figured the Vulcans had basic warp drive when the Time of Awakening was happening. Based on what is said in Enterprise, it would still take decades for a ship to travel 100 light years at Warp 1. Given how devastated Vulcan was post war, I could understand that space travel wasn't a priority. Or maybe the country that represented the Romulans developed warp and never shared the technology with the Followers of Surak and they rediscovered the technology clearing ruins centuries later. On Earth, Warp Drive was invented in the US. Without first contact I could see them hoarding the technology and we are supposed to have better control of our emotions sans logic.
Always wanted to learn more about the Debrune civilization.
Than go and learn not everyone is going to spoon feed you knowledge like you are some kind of special boy think about it yourself
@@madflavour8548 really? You come here and comment on a year old comment of mine, with your incorrect spelling and and insult me by telling me to go read myself. I wanted Star Trek to make more episodes with stories about the Debrune because there is like one episode commenting on them. It’s not an expansive storyline across multiple episodes, just one episode.
@@ThePoopsmith-12345 time to grow up and do your own research like us adults do not everyone is going to spoon feed you
@@madflavour8548 💩🚽
@@ThePoopsmith-12345 a very immature response do you like me what I wanted to learn about the romulans ferengi Klingons I dedicate 12 hours a day to reading on these subjects
They don’t have a common ancestor with the Vulcans, they **are** Vulcans
True, they still are Vulcans. There are human societies that haven't had contact with each other for way more than 2000 years (until recently, historically speaking).
If Coto or Sussman had his way-had a 5th season of "Enterprise" were allowed to continue, an episode might've seen Cdr. T'Pol discovering that her father was a Romulan-which might have explained her emotions that lay buried as her mother stated in 'Awakenings'. Still, though Vulcans didn't know what their Vulcan ancestors became as Romulans, would T'Les been likely to mate with someone who looked like V'Las or Stehl seen in 'Kir Shara'? I think she might've meant just the ancient Vulcan emotions before Surak taught them logic. Still, it might've made an interesting story as T'Pol might have discovered that if her father was a Romulan, he might've tried to kidnap her once to later start a colony called Hellguard, but changed his mind and disappeared, only to be found by her and the crew somewhere. Just my ideas.
Think we need to clear something up. Romulans are the original civilization of Vulcan. It was Surak and his followers that drove them off world. It's Romulans who are the ancestors of Vulcans, not the other way around.
In Roman folklore, Romulus and Remus we're newborn orphan twin boys a shewolf had suckled. They grew to found Roma (Roma), out of which rose the Roman Empire.
Star Trek borrowed this, naming a binary star system Romulus-Remus, round which the Romulan Empire centred. In the TOS first-season episode "Balance of Terror", the dialogue introduced that the Romulans likely were an offshoot of the Vulcans.
[Editorial note: the following paragraph must descend behind the subsequent one; however, I lack the means to effect this.]
The Shin-zon storyline of Star Trek: Nemesis (2002, Paramount, Stuart Baird, Jerry Goldsmith) departed from this canon (I believe the Kelvin timeline narrative did, too, though that botch is not canon from conception to execution).
In TNG two-part episode "Reunification", Ambassador Spock (Leonard Nimoy) discreetly travelled to the Romulan home world, and remained, in his effort to foster an underground movement toward reunification with their Vulcan kinfolk, and away from their long militaristic, autocratic culture.
Note that "she-wolf" or "Lupa" in Latin did not always mean a literal wild canine. The term also denoted a low-class sex worker. If the legend has a basis in truth, Romulus and Remus were likely nursed by a prostitute rather than a wolf.
You may have hit the nail on the head on why the Romulans have different appearances. Generation ships. They may not of had time to pick and choose who got on board the ships. And had to take all of their people with out any DNA screening. So all kinds of recessive genes could have been on too much of one or two ships. And with them being a closed system. A bit of inbreeding can happen. That and radiation leaks.
In Vulcan society circa 2150, mind-melding is seen as a perversion, a disgusting abberation; akin to the view of homosexuality in the 80's/90's/idiots are still talking like that now. This would suggest that those with telepathic ability were a minority at one point, thus the Rihannsu that left Vulcan would have been, statistically speaking, incapable of melding or other psionic abilities. Since melding became a social issue around 2150-2160, it indicates that it was known of for a long time (Oscar Wilde was jailed for gay. Gay decriminalised in the UK some 70-odd years later). I posit that Vulcan psionism is a product of the mental disciplines taught by Surak, techniques that allowed them to unlock dormant brain functions. The Remans have a far simpler explanation: it's dark and loud in the mines. You can't see to lip read, and you can't hear crap-all. Dormant abilities could have been awakened thusly: in Nemesis, we see that at least one of them is a more capable telepath than most Vulcans, who are limited to touch-telepathy, for which I have no explanation. Reman's gotta reem, I suppose
Very interesting video. Definitely worth a subscription to see more of your videos. Thank you!
The forehead ridges always confused me in TNG, and I like the explanation that it was genetically added. Great video!
_Romulans, they're so predictably treacherous._ - Weyoun
A Video as interesting as the oldest enemies of United Earth... The Roumlans.
*Fascinating* 👍
I will often watch these videos before I go to bed sometimes watching the same video several times. I had to stop watching because the outro music was a lil too loud and would wake me up if I happened to fall asleep (I often get insomnia). If the outro music was lower or eliminated as I don't really see a need for it anyway, you would have a sub and at least a few views on or videos from me and others like me. I do like the content and prefer your style over some of the other ST youtubers like Lore Reloaded (Dude is too trollish) or TrekYards.
Thanks for creating this video. It is very informative, and it has some intriguing theories.
I do not have as much knowledge, but I do love the Romulans. A long time ago, I created my own theory about their origins. Just for fun, here it is:
After the Vulcan civil war, the pre-Romulans fled the planet. They were defeated, weak, and desperate. Fortunately for them, the Preservers (or a similar group) decided to help them, though they possibly disguised themselves as space-faring merchants. In return for modest offerings from the pre-Romulans, the Preservers gave them crucial assistance (possibly temporarily), such as: faster-than-light travel; cloaking devices; a star map to the beautiful and healthy planet that would become known as Romulus; etc. And there was one more important gift: Roman culture. Realizing that the pre-Romulans needed a strong and organized culture, the Preservers gave them the knowledge of the glory of Ancient Rome.
Well, if nothing else, these things are fun to think about. 🙂
Jolan tru.
I always figured the forehead ridges were a genetic left over from some species they conquered/interbreed with during the long migration to Romulus
everyone always disagrees with the way I write these things. for example I wrote that the bejorans destroyed all of cardassia then left for the stars leaving the cardassians to rebuild. while they settled bejor. in my version of the vulcan story the vulcans were divided when a magic minority of three percent waged war on the rest of them leaving only the vulcans who could escape for survivors.
The mintakans that are an earlier offshoot of Vulcans had forehead ridges. So it seems the Vulcans were the ones to loose it. Also half human Vulcan' s and half human Romulans look pretty much the same. So it seems the ridges aren't a dominant trait. Just a though.
Hi Tyler, it's guys, from the comments. In this section I will feed the algorithm gods with words.
best explanation to me is that the Romulans interbred with the native population on Romulus and the Remans interbred with a darkness dwelling species on Remus. After a couple centuries of rebuilding on Romulus they ventured to their moon and found people very different to themselves and promptly enslaved them.
This too has been explored in beta canon.
Your voice is remarkable; I would listen to you read instructional manuals just for the sound.
When you show clips from various episodes you should footnote them as to their source so people can go back and look them up on their own. In my case some of your clips seem to be episodes I’ve missed,
Beep boop. Feed the algorithm gods
I wonder if being voidborn for so long is what lead them to develop blackhole based warpcores.
The Romulans are Vulcans before genetic engineering. Just like on Earth they had a war about this issue but the genetically modified won this war on Vulcan. This is why the Vulcans are so strong and are unable to handle their emotions....just like human augments. Those Vulcans that lost took with them the pre logic warlike Vulcan culture.
"All the people who look a certain way left the planet or were exterminated, but it totally wasn't genocide and we are the good guys" - Vulcan High Command, probably
That time when Deanna troi became romulan ! That flooded my basement for real !
I kind of like the idea that the forehead ridges are the result of cosmetic surgery. It wouldn't be THAT weird compared to some of the body modifications humans have made in our diverse histories!
All one has to do is read Diane Duane's Rihannsu series to find out about "Romulans"
Ironically, things had spun completely out of control due to the Orion Crime businesses kidnapping and killing some of the intellectual leaders of Vulcan society that Surak's best student had to leave to restrain his breakaway neighbors from running totally amok- neither mentor nor student wished for the seperation nor welcomed it, S'atask deeply regarded his time as Surak's student in a college of sorts to be his idea of what Terrans would refer to as "Heaven"- he loved the courses; but their society was running completely amok and totally out of control as the Vulcans went berserk on their attackers the Orions and virtually wiped out the crime business's fleet and ability to operate.
While forehead ridges may be a bit unrealistic to develop in that short span of time, I don't think there's anything to say it's impossible.
As for their psychic abilities, with how paranoid Romulan culture tends to be it wouldn't surprise me to learn that any discovered telepaths became pariahs. Likely killed or exiled to Remus, which would also help explain why some Remans showed stronger abilities than even Vulcans.
Love romulans. Favourite trek species!!
... hmmmm 🤔 .... Hackensack New Jersey ? … lol
I’m looking forward to this
Good summary. I liked how you kept tying Romulan history to what was going on at Earth at the time. Really puts the events in context - Romulus was such a busy planet!
Awesome video as always!
They came from Outer Space, as I recall.
That was great.
Having been a fan of Star Trek since it first aired in 1966, I have watched EVERY series and have read about 96% of the novels and paperbacks.
Romulans are actually the descendants of Vulcans who left Vulcan shortly after a global conflict nearly destroyed their world during the time of Surak. Vulcans were as war-like as the Romulans in canon. When the majority of Vulcans started following the teachings of Surak in order to avoid another global conflict, a faction of the Vulcan people chose to leave and settled on two planets which they called Romulus and Remus approximately 5000 years before Earth's Bronze Age. They maintained their martial culture and began building their 'Star Empire'. much of which is mentioned in the novel "Spock's World".
Romulus was destroyed in the Kelvin timeline which splinters from the Prime. So did it occur in the Prime too? I don't consider Kelvin to be canon.
No, Romulus was destroyed in the prime timeline. The Kelvin timeline was created only after Nero & Spock went through the black hole.
The Romulans had an empire, suggesting after the destruction of their homeworld they still had many fully colonized worlds, why would the end of one planet of theirs turn them into refugees?
Because WRITING that's why. They wanted to destroy and gut a core species for there own purposes and Romulans were just the first on the chopping block.
I love this channel
This also begs another question. What about the Proto-Vulcan society that the Enterprise D encountered on Mintaka III? Would they be some kind of Romulan offshoot?
The description of them as "proto-Vulcan" would mean that they have no common lineage with Vulcans/Romulans. They simply evolved that way because of how similar Mintaka III's environment was with Vulcan. In biology, this is called convergent evolution. Personally though, I prefer thinking of them as descendants of some failed Romulan colony like the Debrune, and somehow lost knowledge of their origins.
@@Raja1938 problem here is that the Mintaka star system is a real one and is 1200 light years away from Earth. Given that the entire circumference of the Vulcan to Neutral zone planets (Debrune) to Romulus is a relatively tight circle of less than a hundred light years, giving support to sublight propulsion, it seems implausible that an offshoot occurred here.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Interesting. Maybe the Preservers had a hand in transplanting them so far afield!
Very interesting!
Excellent video. Thank you !!!!!
Tyler...your knowledge of the Star trek universe is great...much respect to you asa person...thanks from Adelaide South Australia
The romulans came from the writer of star trek story
I like how you achieved this conclusion, but I need to point out the Star Trek Voyager book String Theory, Evolution.
In this book, the Psionic species called the Nacine whom had created offspring with the Ocampa
This would have happened hundreds of thousands of years ago
The Nacine could also have been the Outcasts and been the creatures in the spheres
Something to think about
Also look up KOL - Keeper of the Light
Vulcan and Romulan ship tech, Vulcans and most of the Alphas have wrap drives engines, Romulan ships have blackholes basically and then cloak tech which was before the Klingons.
Great video! Always wondered about the ridges. I like the theory of genetic tampering and tinkering. Jolan Tru trek dogs!
While completely apocrypha, the game Star Fleet Battles states that as the Earth-Romulan war was officially ended, a few Romulan ships - manned by Remans - were in battle with an Earth ship over Remus. These Romulan ships were operating under communications blackout (normal at the time), and thus did not hear that the cease-fire had been signed. They attacked until the Earth ship went down on Remus, its antimatter detonating, and adding severe background radiation to the world. This caused the Remans something of a negative reputation within the empire. Remans were Romulans that inhabited the sister world, and were known for higher aggression. Such an antimatter detonation would easily explain the tidal lock of the world and mutation of its people. The radiation could easily have spread in smaller amounts across the system, and affected Romulan appearance to a lesser degree.
Concerning the ridges! because the vulcans that left, did so in space vessels with a limited size; They may have met another species along the way, that they used or allied themselves with, in order to increase their gene pool. This would account for some Romulan's having ridges and others not. It would also account for the differences between the Vulcans and the Romulans.
In some Romulan's the ridges would be recessive genes, and not in others.
2 minute ad made me wanna skip the video altogether. Lol.
But big ups on getting a sponsor. I know that is a great achievement
I have always wished that we had gotten a series, or at least a miniseries (on the scale of "The Winds of War") focusing on the Vulcan reformation. Ideally, back when Bruce Gray was still alive; I found his portrayal of Surak quite compelling.
I think I will go with the racial separatism explanation for the Romulan ridges. It also fits well with their authoritarian government. It explains part of their arrogance towards other aliens. However, the smooth headed Vulcans are still smug on the same subject.
Awesome! You have a sponsor!
"Romulans' *TRUE* Origins" are whatever the present owners of the franchise says it is.
YES!
MORE ROMULAN VIDEOS!
If you want to read about Romulans, one author stands above all and her name is Diane Duane. Look for the Rihannsu series (Rihannsu is Romulan for "Romulan").
In the episode where Spock interacts with the Romulan commander, she appears to engage in empathic/telepathic link with Spock. They both touch each other's face the same way when Vulcans engage in telepathic mind
Romulus was a dying and rising god. That's where the Romulans came from
You could offer a similar explanation for the ridges of the Romulans as there was for the differences of the Klingons of TOS to later ST series.
Love all things Romulan. Great video.
Thank you Jeff!
I know it's not canon, but there are books that suggest that the remans were the product of genetic engineering to help them survive on Remus and that the clan left there had telepathic ability where there wasn't as much in those that settled on Romulus, eventually breeding out of them.
I don't think they lost that war. It was more of a draw ended as truce like the Korean war.
Excellent video.
I know that Neanderthals were and are the same exact species as modern Cro-Magnon man; and that's because just about every single human alive today has about 1.2% Neanderthal DNA in our genetic makeup, so sometime in about 50,000 years ago, each of us had at least one Neanderthal ancestor, and since our ancestors were fertile, Neanderthals *are* fully the same species as modern man- just simply a different race of human being, but the same kind of creature.
Could still be different species.
@@nadirjofas3140 Think of it: two self-aware and totally genetically compatible species? That's ridiculous; so no, Neanderthals were and are fully human and the same exact species as Cro-Magnon man... because just about every single human being today has approximately 1.2 % Neanderthal DNA in our systems- and we're fertile, so they couldn't have been two different species, at all, ever.
@@chissstardestroyer nope
Where did they come from?
Where did they go?
Where did you come from Romulan Joe?!