Great video! You fooled me, I was sure the PCGS Morgan was going to grade at MS-63 and the NGC at MS-64. That’s how I buy coins, by eye appeal. Good lesson as people sometimes forget, don’t by the holder or grade but look closely at the coin. If it makes you happy to add to your holdings/collection, then buy it and you will have a beautiful collection you can be proud of. Thank you.
Got the PCGS correct and I called the NGC 64+. The luster at first to me when flashed looked different. However when your swirled it around the cartwheeling came in. Good video though, thanks Ben!
Just came back around to this video. I would buy the NGC and submit to PCGS as a crossover. I had an ANACS MS64 crossover to a 65 in a PCGS holder. I have also had one coin upgrade to a + resubmitting.
I agree. The NGC Morgan seems, to my eye, be a nicer coin. On your "Old Pueblo" website, is the NGC 85cc Morgan the same as in this video? Was looking to maybe purchase it but it's a different Cert # and looks different.
Very informative video. I look at the coin and not the grade so much. I have some very nice 62’s in my collection that visually would stand up to 64’s that I have seen. That is of course in my opinion.
The lamination peel on the NGC coin is what probably made the grade lower. If I got the NGC coin, I would see that error every time I looked at it. So I would pick the PCGS coin.
Lamination mark near the M in Unum on the NGC is pretty noticeable, but agree with you on the fields and the discoloration. NGC must really dislike the lamination.
Real tough call. Both beautiful, both alot going for them, and both got there dings. I am far from expert, but I probably would've picked the PCGS. Mostly cause the peel you pointed out. In the video it looks alot like a cut, gouge. either way enjoyed video, and am loving learning. Thanks much appreciation.
NGC photographs all its coins so I looked at the photos on the NGC site. The coin has some gouges on the rim at 12:00 on the reverse, and something strange is happening on the rim at about 4:00 right before where the plastic holder covers up part of the rim. Then at 9:00 on the reverse, the rim is sort of bulging out in a strange way and doesn't match the other parts of the coin. The toning looks crusty and has a negative impact on the eye appeal, and maybe these reasons are why the coin only got a 63. But the luster and relative lack of marks are superior for a 63. There's no photo for the PCGS dollar but it does appear to have been dipped. It's a low-end 64 which is often found in investment lots. I wouldn't be happy with a 64 with all those marks in front of the face and with somewhat impaired luster.
The Luster on the NGC looks better too. I just like the looks of the bright white luster better with a little light toning around the rim. Out of these 2 coins I would take the NGC but I think they both look like 63 too me. I think I would though shop for a different coin all together the error with the chunk missing I do not like that and the PSGC I don't like the stains dots on the back. Just because I don't like that to some collectors might be collecting error coins and weird toning. To each there own.
Agreed with your analysis Ben........But!!......That '85 CC Graded by PCGS WAS INDEED GRADED VERY CLOSE TO 21 Years Ago (As From '99-2001 is when PCGS Had BOTH their (Internal) "SERIES #" ! And the Actual Number that the Coin was Graded in the Order of that MS-64's Grading sequence as far as "Series # 52 (Morgan $'s), And it was the 29th "64" '85 CC To Be Graded a MS-64 (Either That Year Of Grading) Or She was the 29Th '85CC Morgan to be Graded using THAT Particular "Slab Info Card"!........ I know this because I happen to Own (In THAT Era Holder, a 1873-Proof Trade Dollar That (AT THE TIME WAS THE ONLY 1873 PR-Trade in DCAM (DEEP CAMEO!❤️) As She was Labeled Series 51 COIN 1 !!!.....And I Held THAT '73 PR-62 DCAM TRADE $ HIGHEST!..AND ONLY GRADED 1873-PR-DCAM!!......FOR 6 YEARS!!......UNTIL A PR-63 DCAM COIN # 2!! .....CAME IN TO BEAT ME OUT IN EARLY 2006!! 😔😖😢......Then Somebody beat His/Hers OUT IN 2009 With a 73 PR-64 DCAM COIN #3!........But To THIS DAY THERE IS ONLY 3 "SERIES 51" (TRADE) Proofs 1873 DCAM's" (Of course PROOF) GRADED BY PCGS!!.....NGC HAS NONE!.....NEITHER DOES ANAC's!!........BUT JUST HAVING "COIN #1" On The Holder is Special!.....At least to Me!.......I Will ADMIT THAT I ACTUALLY CALLED PCGS AND MADE THEM CHECK AT WITH AT LEAST 4 PEOPLE! TO VERIFY THAT A "PR-63 DCAM" Was INDEED GRADED BACK THAT VERY DAY! IN '06 Back when they Produced The "PCGS COIN POPULATION "WHITE BOOK" that they sent to "GOLD" Members back then!.......AS I WAS LITERALLY SICK AND WHINNYING LIKE A BABY 👶 WHEN MY COIN GOT BEAT!!🤣🤣🤣😖.......Oh it was like I Lost A Friend Or Something!!😖😖.......WHAT A BABY 👶 I WAS! MY WIFE SAID THAT I NEEDED TO GET SOME "PROFESSIONAL MENTAL HELP!!"..........And She Was Right!😳😳😁😁🤣........Yeah! I can laugh Now!....BUT BACK THAT DAY!😱😱.....What a Freaking Jerk I Was!...... Sorry Ben!......Had To Get That Story Out!........Plus it was THAT PCGS TAG TYPE THAT REMINDED ME!!....LMAO! Sean Reilly....
I didn't wait for your opinion or read the others: both at 63 IMO. That facial on the NGC is problematic. Lots of chatter IMO on fields and devices on the PCGS coin. I don't really like either.
Yep me too...it's almost like the NGC had its damage concentrated in one area while the same amount of damage was spread evenly across the surfaces on the PCGS. So both 63s, until he told us the NGC gouge on the obverse was done by the mint and on that, I raised it to a 64.
If the coin graded 64 is actually a 64 then I have some 65s or 66 key dates. My 78cc PL and 85s have no chatter anywhere nothing on the face and they are both 64 +. I don't like to get my coins graded maybe I should. I could then unload them for substantially more than I have into them. I have almost a complete set most of which range from 62 to 64.
I picked the ngc coin as the more appealing one as well, i did guess the grade for both of them as a 63 however if you want to get technical the ngc coin has less surface flaws than the pcgs coin, the dark looking hits on the cheeks are a bit distracting but not as severe as the deep gashes on the pcgs coin in fact the pcgs coin has a much worse strike. I will repeat myself here the pcgs coin has much much more severe surface flaws.... i think it should rather be a 62 than a 63 just technically speaking. But me personally i would not buy any of these coins
Larry Stendebach MS62 on the PCGS.....?? I was thinking that was more of an attempt at humor than an actual opinion. The PCGS coin is accurately graded, albeit on the low end of the 64 spectrum. The NGC coin is a RARE undergrade..... it’s usually the exact opposite with them.
@@theblake5356 I agree this is the opposite of the norm...PCGS usually grades stricter than NGC. That being said...respectfully...that coin is a 62. I a have graded tens of thousands of Morgan dollars, built multiple complete sets and feel like I know the series very well. That is a classic bag coin - strong luster but with so many marks...and many deep. PCGS just got it wrong. Would make a bet with you if the OP cracked and sent it back in raw...but he would be silly to do so on that coin.
Larry Stendebach Well to each their own I guess.... I too was a grader at PCGS from 1993-97 until they gave the grade or trade ultimatum. Were you at PCGS or NGC?
I think the PCGS coin is better, because (for me) the markings on the cheek (NGC) are much worse to look at than the markings in the field (PCGS). The small toning spot on the back of the PCGS coin is nothing.
I enjoyed your "unfair grading" video. 😀 I learn new things about coins each day. Thanks!
I see them both as the grades they were given with the ngc coin having a lesser eye appeal but they are in your hands not mine. Thank you for sharing.
Great video! You fooled me, I was sure the PCGS Morgan was going to grade at MS-63 and the NGC at MS-64. That’s how I buy coins, by eye appeal. Good lesson as people sometimes forget, don’t by the holder or grade but look closely at the coin. If it makes you happy to add to your holdings/collection, then buy it and you will have a beautiful collection you can be proud of. Thank you.
David Baker buy for beauty!
Always enjoy your videos, thanks
I thought the NGC was better too. NGC may be more strict in their grading?
I graded both at 63. I know the lamination is a mint error but to me it's distracting. Thanks Ben
Great video. Thanks for sharing. Love those CC's. Happy Hunting! GD
Got the PCGS correct and I called the NGC 64+. The luster at first to me when flashed looked different. However when your swirled it around the cartwheeling came in. Good video though, thanks Ben!
Just came back around to this video. I would buy the NGC and submit to PCGS as a crossover. I had an ANACS MS64 crossover to a 65 in a PCGS holder. I have also had one coin upgrade to a + resubmitting.
Always enjoy your comments and teachings, would you care to put value price wise on these two?
I agree. The NGC Morgan seems, to my eye, be a nicer coin. On your "Old Pueblo" website, is the NGC 85cc Morgan the same as in this video? Was looking to maybe purchase it but it's a different Cert # and looks different.
jayyk31 you are correct- different NGC one is available- and at this time the PCGS Coin is available . Thanks
I agree with you just didn't like the chin wonder what the NGC coin would have gotten at PCGS thanks
I like NGC just for the slab design.
My favorite slab is the old small ANACS slabs. Compact!
I like the NGC coin better I thought the PGCS was ms63 myself😊👍 thanks for sharing
Very informative video. I look at the coin and not the grade so much. I have some very nice 62’s in my collection that visually would stand up to 64’s that I have seen. That is of course in my opinion.
The lamination peel on the NGC coin is what probably made the grade lower. If I got the NGC coin, I would see that error every time I looked at it. So I would pick the PCGS coin.
NGC very accurate!
Great Analogy! Possible the mark are from a dye clash?
The 63 would be the higher grades coin in my eyes as well, plus I prefer the MS 63 because I'm a sucker for toning
Lamination mark near the M in Unum on the NGC is pretty noticeable, but agree with you on the fields and the discoloration. NGC must really dislike the lamination.
David Ufford that lamination is big
Great Metal and Perfect Video from Your Friend in YTube of Morocco
Real tough call. Both beautiful, both alot going for them, and both got there dings. I am far from expert, but I probably would've picked the PCGS. Mostly cause the peel you pointed out. In the video it looks alot like a cut, gouge. either way enjoyed video, and am loving learning. Thanks much appreciation.
NGC photographs all its coins so I looked at the photos on the NGC site. The coin has some gouges on the rim at 12:00 on the reverse, and something strange is happening on the rim at about 4:00 right before where the plastic holder covers up part of the rim. Then at 9:00 on the reverse, the rim is sort of bulging out in a strange way and doesn't match the other parts of the coin. The toning looks crusty and has a negative impact on the eye appeal, and maybe these reasons are why the coin only got a 63. But the luster and relative lack of marks are superior for a 63. There's no photo for the PCGS dollar but it does appear to have been dipped. It's a low-end 64 which is often found in investment lots. I wouldn't be happy with a 64 with all those marks in front of the face and with somewhat impaired luster.
Addendum - the planchet flaw DOES distract from the overall appearance. I can not get over the NGC facial "crunch"
I thought both were 63s, with the NGC one being slightly nicer.
I would of took the NGC coin, excellent video 👍
Love that blunt intro, "unfair video of grading"
Call em like I see em!
I would re-submit the NGC one. That coin is at the very least a 64 imho.
The Luster on the NGC looks better too. I just like the looks of the bright white luster better with a little light toning around the rim. Out of these 2 coins I would take the NGC but I think they both look like 63 too me. I think I would though shop for a different coin all together the error with the chunk missing I do not like that and the PSGC I don't like the stains dots on the back. Just because I don't like that to some collectors might be collecting error coins and weird toning. To each there own.
I'm at 4:51 and I agree that the NGC coin is nicer. I would possibly resubmit the NGC. I do have a CAC membership, however, I have yet to use it.
In the Morgan dollars, the date and the mintage is also important as to the grade.
Agreed with your analysis Ben........But!!......That '85 CC Graded by PCGS WAS INDEED GRADED VERY CLOSE TO 21 Years Ago (As From '99-2001 is when PCGS Had BOTH their (Internal) "SERIES #" ! And the Actual Number that the Coin was Graded in the Order of that MS-64's Grading sequence as far as "Series # 52 (Morgan $'s), And it was the 29th "64" '85 CC To Be Graded a MS-64 (Either That Year Of Grading) Or She was the 29Th '85CC Morgan to be Graded using THAT Particular "Slab Info Card"!........
I know this because I happen to Own (In THAT Era Holder, a 1873-Proof Trade Dollar That (AT THE TIME WAS THE ONLY 1873 PR-Trade in DCAM (DEEP CAMEO!❤️) As She was Labeled Series 51 COIN 1 !!!.....And I Held THAT '73 PR-62 DCAM TRADE $ HIGHEST!..AND ONLY GRADED 1873-PR-DCAM!!......FOR 6 YEARS!!......UNTIL A PR-63 DCAM COIN # 2!! .....CAME IN TO BEAT ME OUT IN EARLY 2006!! 😔😖😢......Then Somebody beat His/Hers OUT IN 2009 With a 73 PR-64 DCAM COIN #3!........But To THIS DAY THERE IS ONLY 3 "SERIES 51" (TRADE) Proofs 1873 DCAM's" (Of course PROOF) GRADED BY PCGS!!.....NGC HAS NONE!.....NEITHER DOES ANAC's!!........BUT JUST HAVING "COIN #1" On The Holder is Special!.....At least to Me!.......I Will ADMIT THAT I ACTUALLY CALLED PCGS AND MADE THEM CHECK AT WITH AT LEAST 4 PEOPLE! TO VERIFY THAT A "PR-63 DCAM" Was INDEED GRADED BACK THAT VERY DAY! IN '06 Back when they Produced The "PCGS COIN POPULATION "WHITE BOOK" that they sent to "GOLD" Members back then!.......AS I WAS LITERALLY SICK AND WHINNYING LIKE A BABY 👶 WHEN MY COIN GOT BEAT!!🤣🤣🤣😖.......Oh it was like I Lost A Friend Or Something!!😖😖.......WHAT A BABY 👶 I WAS! MY WIFE SAID THAT I NEEDED TO GET SOME
"PROFESSIONAL MENTAL HELP!!"..........And She Was Right!😳😳😁😁🤣........Yeah! I can laugh Now!....BUT BACK THAT DAY!😱😱.....What a Freaking Jerk I Was!......
Sorry Ben!......Had To Get That Story Out!........Plus it was THAT PCGS TAG TYPE THAT REMINDED ME!!....LMAO!
Sean Reilly....
I like the NGC better
I didn't wait for your opinion or read the others: both at 63 IMO. That facial on the NGC is problematic. Lots of chatter IMO on fields and devices on the PCGS coin. I don't really like either.
perfect example of your latest video
Pcgs is an
Ms62, ngc is an ms63
I thought both were 63s to my eye
Yep me too...it's almost like the NGC had its damage concentrated in one area while the same amount of damage was spread evenly across the surfaces on the PCGS. So both 63s, until he told us the NGC gouge on the obverse was done by the mint and on that, I raised it to a 64.
I was guessing both were 65.. nice coins. I thought the fields were nice. But with that ding on the NGC slabbed coin I shoulda known better..
If the coin graded 64 is actually a 64 then I have some 65s or 66 key dates. My 78cc PL and 85s have no chatter anywhere nothing on the face and they are both 64 +. I don't like to get my coins graded maybe I should. I could then unload them for substantially more than I have into them. I have almost a complete set most of which range from 62 to 64.
I picked the ngc coin as the more appealing one as well, i did guess the grade for both of them as a 63 however if you want to get technical the ngc coin has less surface flaws than the pcgs coin, the dark looking hits on the cheeks are a bit distracting but not as severe as the deep gashes on the pcgs coin in fact the pcgs coin has a much worse strike. I will repeat myself here the pcgs coin has much much more severe surface flaws.... i think it should rather be a 62 than a 63 just technically speaking. But me personally i would not buy any of these coins
They look at the cheek before the fields. That hit by the nose on the NGC coin is what did it.
Great example. The PCGS coin is over-graded. I graded them MS-62 and MS-63 respectively. NGC coin is certainly better.
??.... an attempt at sarcasm?
@@theblake5356 no sarcasm - why would you think that?
Larry Stendebach MS62 on the PCGS.....?? I was thinking that was more of an attempt at humor than an actual opinion. The PCGS coin is accurately graded, albeit on the low end of the 64 spectrum. The NGC coin is a RARE undergrade..... it’s usually the exact opposite with them.
@@theblake5356 I agree this is the opposite of the norm...PCGS usually grades stricter than NGC. That being said...respectfully...that coin is a 62. I a have graded tens of thousands of Morgan dollars, built multiple complete sets and feel like I know the series very well. That is a classic bag coin - strong luster but with so many marks...and many deep. PCGS just got it wrong. Would make a bet with you if the OP cracked and sent it back in raw...but he would be silly to do so on that coin.
Larry Stendebach Well to each their own I guess.... I too was a grader at PCGS from 1993-97 until they gave the grade or trade ultimatum. Were you at PCGS or NGC?
The 63 looks better to me. At least it looks like original luster.
Hey bud is there any way I could send some pictures of 3 cois to you and help me decide if I should send them or not? If not I understand. Thanks!
jrduke45 better images at www.oldpueblocoin.com
Thanks. I don't really wanna sell I just wanna send off to NGC.
I think the PCGS coin is better, because (for me) the markings on the cheek (NGC) are much worse to look at than the markings in the field (PCGS). The small toning spot on the back of the PCGS coin is nothing.
Nonetheless both are great coins
NGC Morgan should have been ms63 plus. they must of had a bad day. maybe the coffee was to week
The PCGS coin is accurately graded. The NGC coin is probably a 64+.... a 65 if not for the nose.
I like the ms 63 NGC coin, But I buy PCGS coins 99 percent of the time, I know buy the coin not the holder.
I agree with the grading ngc has a busted nose
I disagree, they are both solid MS63s
Haha. Don't like either.
Peace dollars are better