1:03 -- I thought CAC awarded a green bean for more than just the top 1/3 within a grade. On their website, CAC says the following (taken from their FAQ section): "For many years, coin dealers and advanced collectors have used the letters A, B, and C among themselves to further describe coins. C indicates low-end for the grade, B indicates solid for the grade, and A indicates high-end. CAC will only award stickers to coins in the A or B category. C coins, although accurately graded, will be returned without a CAC sticker." So if CAC will sticker an "A" and a "B" grade coin, wouldn't that be 2/3 of the coins within a grade?
That’s assuming that 1/3 of coins are A 1/3 are B and 1/3 are C. C being average for the grade imo is more like 2/3 of all graded coins. John is reluctant to call coins over graded so he throws those in the C category as well when really they should be placed in a D or F category. I think we’ve all seen coins that we would classify as below average or over graded. Bottom line I would say that about 1/4 of all graded coins are Cac worthy imo
Thanks big daddy! You are correct about the A and B and NOT the C…also that doesn’t really tell us exactly how many coins make the grade and how many don’t.
The thing that bothers me about CAC is that there is no way to know if a coin has been previously submitted to CAC and not stickered. It would be much better if CAC would maintain on online database that could be checked to see if a given coin had been previously submitted. Of course, CAC is more than happy to keep charging people for multiple submissions of the same coin, so I'm not expecting this to happen.
They only charge for the coin if it passes so the only costs would be for shipping and insurance on coins submitted multiple times. My theory is that Cac doesn’t want to create a 3rd tier of coin prices being Cac, failed Cac, and not yet submitted. They don’t want that “failed Cac” category I think
It would be educational to view several equivalent coins of the same grade, some CAC and others not. Then compare and try to determine their differences. Or, ask if maybe some of the coins would get a green bean if submitted. Thanks for the informative video. Love that OPC seal of approval!
I wouldn't mind CAC if they actually put the coin in their own slab if they disagreed with the grade! Love your baseball analogy! And thanks so much for passing along great knowledge!
Sometimes I wonder with things like CaC if it is better to give them a little gristle with your meat. IE if you are sending in 5 MS 65 Saints that are all in the top third, if you are more likely to have them all CaC if you add another 65 with them that is only typical, so the other coins compare favorably to it.
I love Bay Bridge Halves. I own around 75 of them, best one is a rainbow toned PCGS MS-67. My lowest one I got graded VF-20 by SEGS. I think the coin was over graded, should have been VG-10 Details, Cleaned. I'd love to dig up a Bay Bridge Half Dollar in Fair or Poor condition if it exists for my collection.
Comparison of genius - what a great comparison Ben well done! I wish though...that you would have simplified it and said that if you are getting these FOR SAVINGS....and have a recommendation from that perspective with the value added via SHEET ;) Thanks for everything you do!
Ben, if I'm not mistaken, it sounds like you've warmed up to CAC. Why I like the CAC concept: It's an inexpensive way to gain further recognition (read: value) for a coin that may appear under-rated, and without the risk of a bad crack-out. The other concern--which you humorously poke fun at--is what's to stop sticker-mania? Granted, few in the industry are as well-known as John Albanese. I dunno, but for now, it appears that CAC's business is very strong. Clearly, John and Co. have recognized and satisfied a need among the numismatic populace.
Hey Ben let's look at your baseball analogy. I'm not disagreeing with you,, just giving another perspective. Yes a ball down the middle is pretty but any major league pitcher can do that. It's expected. It's the one on the edges that that are truly spectacular! I would say that if CAC were to use that analogy they would only sticker coins that are exceptional for the grade, not just ones down the middle.... I guess achieving the gold sticker would be likened to a wicked nasty slider....a beautiful pitch but very difficult to hit! Thanks Ben.
It seems to me that it would be fairly easy to fake CAC stickers. Other than the hologram effect, is there anything that keeps fakes from being made and used?
I don't think this is necessary for most coins. At some point you have to trust the grading companies (and PCGS and NGC are largely trusted). A use case I could understand for getting a CAC opinion on a coin would be for a high-value coin where I felt the coin is better than the grade, and I was planning on selling the coin, and I didn't want to pay to have it re-graded. For most other situations, I don't feel it would be worth the cost or effort. Thanks for sharing!
Wow ! - YOU have a huge strike zone, especially to the 👈left and the right👉 !!! ⚾️⚾️⚾️ I can see why you’re a coin dealer and not an MLB umpire. 🧐 😲😳😬 🤣😂🤣 Thanks, Ben, ”The Coin Geek”🤓 !
Thank you for the education on what CAC actually does, it really helped clear up how they "grade" the grade, so to speak. However, the fact that CAC exists illustrates how broken the coin grading system is. It's obvious that grading isn't an exact science and one grader's opinion of a coin will probably differ from another, but it sucks to know that an MS65 grade isn't universal; that it requires a "third party" to validate how well someone else did their job. Which makes me question why we put so much value into grading at all. The whole CAC business model comes off as a racket. You want to maximize the value of your coins? Get it graded to validate authenticity and get an expert opinion on it's condition, then submit that same graded coin to another grader to validate that opinion. Just really rubs me the wrong way. Finally, you've demonstrated that in the end CAC's opinion on a coin is nothing but that: an opinion, and not the final say in how accurate the grade is. I do not find the toning on that commem you showed attractive. Many do, as does CAC apparently, but as you stated in your video several other collectors do not; the opinion that this green bean provides is subjective. In the grand scheme of things, what does that sticker really mean? Rant over. Great video.
You could, and there's a chance the new buyer will look it up, but probably only on higher end coins. I'm not fond of the CAC concept at all. It messes everything up and it's still an opinion despite what they say about what coin 'deserves' the bean.
@@lawrence5039 exactly. Wish people would just learn to grade. It's not difficult and if you've done it a decade or longer your opinion is just as valid as these guys.
PCGS & NGC would go under. John and the few CAC employees that he trusts would never see the light of day again with their workload. Never going to happen.
A video that is mildly positive about CAC? Who are you and what have you done to Ben the Coin Geek?!? The one element I’d add to the strike zone analogy is pitch doctoring. Some coins, like early gold, are notorious for having being heavily processed and doctored. CAC filters out what the TPGs often straight grade; they are the overbearing umps that check every ball for foreign substances.
The opinion of graders changes over time. Originally, uncirculated grades were only MS-60, 65, and 70. Then, 63 was created. When all numbers between 60 and 70 began, even some experienced numismatists thought that such minute increments were impractical. Now, should we believe that there are gradations WITHIN a single numerical grade?
I think all of this is hurting the hobby. So think about it. I am a coin collector. I buy a 1921 Morgan in an MS64 holder. Say it cost me $100. It doesnt have a sticker. How do I know if it has already been submitted? Who benefits? If I send it in and I get a sticker whats the big deal? Is it now worth more? Im sure it is worth something but does it cover the cost and time involved. If I have a $1000 coin and send it in do I win or lose if I do or dont get a sticker. Are you telling me that my coin is lousy for the grade. My coin is inferior? Or my coin is superior? Why is this all necessary. The coins have already been slabbed. I personally dont buy into it. I also dont like the fact that a coin with a sticker cost me more. I also dont like the fact that buying a coin without a sticker opens me up to wasting money on a maybe for a sticker. I would suggest that the majority of the people selling a coin will tell the buyer they dont know if it has been sent to CAC. This is my reasoning. I hope it makes sense. ABC, inferior or superior. This does a number on my OCD. Maybe thats a good idea for a sticker. I have OCD therefore I need to waste my money getting another opinion on my slabbed coin. If I dont get one does that mean I better sell my MS64 so I can buy a better MS64. Forget it. I wont play this game. Its a money making scheme. I wonder home many coins have been submitted multiple times and have either continually been rejected or eventually get that sticker. I think this is bad for the HOBBY. If your in it for an investment then you do what you need to. I am a genuine collector. Will I ever sell a coin. Maybe. If I do should I be penalized because I never sent my coin in for a sticker I had graded myself by a tpg. Anyone can call a coin a C on one day and 3 months later call it a B. What if its a C+ should it get half a sticker. It sounds like childs play but its really happening. The big money coins are really where you can get zinged or have a win. Ill say im sorry for the rant but those stickers bother me. I think they are a dark cloud on our hobby. Who really benefits? Who profits regardless of the outcome? That is the big question and the point I am making. Who profits no matter what the outcome? Its always been said "buy the coin not the holder". I say buy the coin not the sticker". Amen.
1:03 -- I thought CAC awarded a green bean for more than just the top 1/3 within a grade. On their website, CAC says the following (taken from their FAQ section):
"For many years, coin dealers and advanced collectors have used the letters A, B, and C among themselves to further describe coins. C indicates low-end for the grade, B indicates solid for the grade, and A indicates high-end. CAC will only award stickers to coins in the A or B category. C coins, although accurately graded, will be returned without a CAC sticker."
So if CAC will sticker an "A" and a "B" grade coin, wouldn't that be 2/3 of the coins within a grade?
That’s assuming that 1/3 of coins are A 1/3 are B and 1/3 are C.
C being average for the grade imo is more like 2/3 of all graded coins. John is reluctant to call coins over graded so he throws those in the C category as well when really they should be placed in a D or F category. I think we’ve all seen coins that we would classify as below average or over graded. Bottom line I would say that about 1/4 of all graded coins are Cac worthy imo
Thanks big daddy! You are correct about the A and B and NOT the C…also that doesn’t really tell us exactly how many coins make the grade and how many don’t.
@@TheCoinGeek Of course A coins can get the gold bean.
Ben, your coins are MS65, your drawing is PO1 :-)
I love the baseball pitch analogy. That definitely helps explain it. Thanks as always for the great content!
Way to stir the CAC pot on a Monday, Ben. And I thought it was going to be a quiet day on UA-cam.
Excellent analogy Ben! Loved it!
Thank you for your simple way of explaining the process.
The thing that bothers me about CAC is that there is no way to know if a coin has been previously submitted to CAC and not stickered. It would be much better if CAC would maintain on online database that could be checked to see if a given coin had been previously submitted. Of course, CAC is more than happy to keep charging people for multiple submissions of the same coin, so I'm not expecting this to happen.
They only charge for the coin if it passes so the only costs would be for shipping and insurance on coins submitted multiple times. My theory is that Cac doesn’t want to create a 3rd tier of coin prices being Cac, failed Cac, and not yet submitted. They don’t want that “failed Cac” category I think
It would be educational to view several equivalent coins of the same grade, some CAC and others not. Then compare and try to determine their differences. Or, ask if maybe some of the coins would get a green bean if submitted. Thanks for the informative video.
Love that OPC seal of approval!
Yes the ball that is right down the middle is hit for a home run, and the one that is right on the edges strikes the batter out.
Great Analogy!
I wouldn't mind CAC if they actually put the coin in their own slab if they disagreed with the grade!
Love your baseball analogy!
And thanks so much for passing along great knowledge!
Not only was it drawn terribly, home plate was drawn terribly backwards.
😍
Sometimes I wonder with things like CaC if it is better to give them a little gristle with your meat. IE if you are sending in 5 MS 65 Saints that are all in the top third, if you are more likely to have them all CaC if you add another 65 with them that is only typical, so the other coins compare favorably to it.
Fan of the content! Like the extra look at CAC and I always find your opinion of the added sticker amusing.
I love Bay Bridge Halves. I own around 75 of them, best one is a rainbow toned PCGS MS-67. My lowest one I got graded VF-20 by SEGS. I think the coin was over graded, should have been VG-10 Details, Cleaned. I'd love to dig up a Bay Bridge Half Dollar in Fair or Poor condition if it exists for my collection.
Comparison of genius - what a great comparison Ben well done! I wish though...that you would have simplified it and said that if you are getting these FOR SAVINGS....and have a recommendation from that perspective with the value added via SHEET ;) Thanks for everything you do!
It would be so cool if J. Albanese replied to your video, or recorded a chat with you. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for the content
Ben, if I'm not mistaken, it sounds like you've warmed up to CAC. Why I like the CAC concept: It's an inexpensive way to gain further recognition (read: value) for a coin that may appear under-rated, and without the risk of a bad crack-out. The other concern--which you humorously poke fun at--is what's to stop sticker-mania? Granted, few in the industry are as well-known as John Albanese. I dunno, but for now, it appears that CAC's business is very strong. Clearly, John and Co. have recognized and satisfied a need among the numismatic populace.
I think you should have your own “OPC” grading stickers.
Hey Ben let's look at your baseball analogy. I'm not disagreeing with you,, just giving another perspective. Yes a ball down the middle is pretty but any major league pitcher can do that. It's expected. It's the one on the edges that that are truly spectacular! I would say that if CAC were to use that analogy they would only sticker coins that are exceptional for the grade, not just ones down the middle.... I guess achieving the gold sticker would be likened to a wicked nasty slider....a beautiful pitch but very difficult to hit! Thanks Ben.
It seems to me that it would be fairly easy to fake CAC stickers. Other than the hologram effect, is there anything that keeps fakes from being made and used?
You can look up the PCGS or NGC # on the slab in the CAC database to verify that the coin was granted a sticker legitimately.
I thought that's why the grading services had plus grades??
Why dont they grade ICG or ANACS??
I don't think this is necessary for most coins. At some point you have to trust the grading companies (and PCGS and NGC are largely trusted). A use case I could understand for getting a CAC opinion on a coin would be for a high-value coin where I felt the coin is better than the grade, and I was planning on selling the coin, and I didn't want to pay to have it re-graded. For most other situations, I don't feel it would be worth the cost or effort. Thanks for sharing!
There is a sticker company for each side of the slab!!! QA,MAC, LITTELTON and others!!!💰💰💰
👍 The CAC market and the coin market all together are still on 🔥 and i love it!
That pen doesn’t get a CAC sticker.
Wow ! - YOU have a huge strike zone, especially to the 👈left and the right👉 !!! ⚾️⚾️⚾️ I can see why you’re a coin dealer and not an MLB umpire. 🧐 😲😳😬 🤣😂🤣 Thanks, Ben, ”The Coin Geek”🤓 !
How does one submit to CAC for a sticker? I’ve got a MS66+ graded by PCGS that I’d like to try and get a gold sticker on.
Thank you for the education on what CAC actually does, it really helped clear up how they "grade" the grade, so to speak. However, the fact that CAC exists illustrates how broken the coin grading system is. It's obvious that grading isn't an exact science and one grader's opinion of a coin will probably differ from another, but it sucks to know that an MS65 grade isn't universal; that it requires a "third party" to validate how well someone else did their job. Which makes me question why we put so much value into grading at all.
The whole CAC business model comes off as a racket. You want to maximize the value of your coins? Get it graded to validate authenticity and get an expert opinion on it's condition, then submit that same graded coin to another grader to validate that opinion. Just really rubs me the wrong way.
Finally, you've demonstrated that in the end CAC's opinion on a coin is nothing but that: an opinion, and not the final say in how accurate the grade is. I do not find the toning on that commem you showed attractive. Many do, as does CAC apparently, but as you stated in your video several other collectors do not; the opinion that this green bean provides is subjective. In the grand scheme of things, what does that sticker really mean?
Rant over. Great video.
Cant you just tear the cac sticker off and put it on another slab? Or am I wrong?
You could, and there's a chance the new buyer will look it up, but probably only on higher end coins. I'm not fond of the CAC concept at all. It messes everything up and it's still an opinion despite what they say about what coin 'deserves' the bean.
@@lawrence5039 I get the concept but the security is lacking. No beans for me!
@@lawrence5039 exactly. Wish people would just learn to grade. It's not difficult and if you've done it a decade or longer your opinion is just as valid as these guys.
What’s next? Someone that will verify the CAC certification. Anything to drive up the price of a coin so it is out of reach for the average collector.
Hey coin geek I just got a ms 65+ 1927 Saint for $2,900 did I get a good deal?
Maybe CAC should start slabbing coins,and bypass NGC or PCGS
Good idea. They are probably the only company that would be able to pull this off
PCGS & NGC would go under. John and the few CAC employees that he trusts would never see the light of day again with their workload. Never going to happen.
@@MakeNumismaticsGreatAgain never say never
A video that is mildly positive about CAC? Who are you and what have you done to Ben the Coin Geek?!?
The one element I’d add to the strike zone analogy is pitch doctoring. Some coins, like early gold, are notorious for having being heavily processed and doctored. CAC filters out what the TPGs often straight grade; they are the overbearing umps that check every ball for foreign substances.
Funny strike zone analogy but a pitch down the middle isn't better than a pitch on the edge .... Good video though.
Seems like a reseller thing.
The opinion of graders changes over time. Originally, uncirculated grades were only MS-60, 65, and 70. Then, 63 was created. When all numbers between 60 and 70 began, even some experienced numismatists thought that such minute increments were impractical. Now, should we believe that there are gradations WITHIN a single numerical grade?
Ben, the more graders that confirm your grades, the better the grade. A solid grade is a solid grade. CAC is the best, in my opinion.
Comment down below.
All about money the more you pay the higher grade youll get
I think all of this is hurting the hobby. So think about it. I am a coin collector. I buy a 1921 Morgan in an MS64 holder. Say it cost me $100. It doesnt have a sticker. How do I know if it has already been submitted? Who benefits?
If I send it in and I get a sticker whats the big deal?
Is it now worth more?
Im sure it is worth something but does it cover the cost and time involved. If I have a $1000 coin and send it in do I win or lose if I do or dont get a sticker. Are you telling me that my coin is lousy for the grade. My coin is inferior? Or my coin is superior?
Why is this all necessary. The coins have already been slabbed. I personally dont buy into it. I also dont like the fact that a coin with a sticker cost me more. I also dont like the fact that buying a coin without a sticker opens me up to wasting money on a maybe for a sticker. I would suggest that the majority of the people selling a coin will tell the buyer they dont know if it has been sent to CAC. This is my reasoning. I hope it makes sense. ABC, inferior or superior. This does a number on my OCD. Maybe thats a good idea for a sticker. I have OCD therefore I need to waste my money getting another opinion on my slabbed coin. If I dont get one does that mean I better sell my MS64 so I can buy a better MS64. Forget it. I wont play this game. Its a money making scheme. I wonder home many coins have been submitted multiple times and have either continually been rejected or eventually get that sticker. I think this is bad for the HOBBY. If your in it for an investment then you do what you need to. I am a genuine collector. Will I ever sell a coin. Maybe. If I do should I be penalized because I never sent my coin in for a sticker I had graded myself by a tpg. Anyone can call a coin a C on one day and 3 months later call it a B. What if its a C+ should it get half a sticker. It sounds like childs play but its really happening. The big money coins are really where you can get zinged or have a win. Ill say im sorry for the rant but those stickers bother me. I think they are a dark cloud on our hobby. Who really benefits? Who profits regardless of the outcome?
That is the big question and the point I am making.
Who profits no matter what the outcome?
Its always been said "buy the coin not the holder". I say buy the coin not the sticker".
Amen.