In 1968 at Camp Sagamihara; The Japanese men who delivered the groceries from the base commissary. Pulled a wagon which had the capacity of a pickup bed. It connected right under the rear seat hitch. Of a upright ten speed bike. The trailer had two standard front wheels they used double tubes spaced for strength as required around the wheels...Bed was boards as i remember. These were awesome and incredibly practical i was 8 and have never forgotten them. Check asia history you might be impressed. :)
ever since I was a kid I hated cars, I had a massive problem with car sickness when I was young combined with the smells it was just over stimulating. when I first heard about ebikes I was like: I'll just use that. I also saw how people lived in the suburbs and thought: When I buy a house I should just make that a business, and then I'll be the most successful shop in town. years later I still believe in that, and having learned about zoning laws, minimum parking, and the lobbying and manipulation of housing and transit, has confirmed what I knew. I for one cant wait for the bike and transit revolution this country needs.
Wheels! From hike to bike with compassion for others. It is amazing what a difference this has made for so many in need indeed! Just think of the possibilities for helping the poor in places where they have to carry such heavy loads. I just have to share this wonderful video.
I've been trying to build the same concept, though with a mountain bike in-mind ...that was when I was a teenager. I'm now 39 y.o. and I've been attempting the same when it comes to mopeds :)
I really do wish the American infrastructure would allow for a more bicycle friendly environment.I was just amazed one night watching House hunters international and the town this couple was thinking of moving to only allowed bicycles.
+mavspecialgirl1 It used to be that way. Sense cars came along, the car drivers think the roads are only for them. Bikes was around long before cars. Now their egos dont want to share with the bike riders. We must go fast all the time, get out of our way. And they have the nerve to call the bike riders assholes. I think its the other way around. You can be riding your bike on the side walk and they will get out of their cars and try and fight you. I have had it happen. Car people just hate bike riders now days. I have been sprayed with who knows what, yelled many things at me. Like bike riders are nerds to be bullied. The school bullies are now the car drivers hating on bike riders.
+Jojo Gun Fang Recently fiancee got hit in the back with a pellet gun while riding his bicycle.Yes I've had some close calls,most by assholes talking on their cell phones.
Jojo Crazy Cat bike riders are generally entitled assholes and always will loose remember that when arguing with a 2 ton car. A lot of good it does you when they scrape you off the pavement. You can argue your point from the morgue
Thanks for your comment Steven. Consider supporting our feature length doc, LESS CAR MORE GO: www.kickstarter.com/projects/1887563980/less-car-more-go-the-cargo-bike-documentary
Holy crap, today is the 5th, and I find out there's a free screening near me on the 8th. I'll will try my best to make time to cycle the 20+ miles to go see it!
Actually Gary I'm hoping to capture a bit of the impact of bikeshare in LESS CAR MORE GO. The SF bay Area's CityCarShare is going to add 22 electric cargo bikes to its bikeshare program in the Spring 2014! I plan to capture the story and perhaps use it as an ending to the doc. Pretty cool stuff...
Guys before their time, innovative, Cargo bikes what a great way to simplify your life. You don't have to kill the family car, just step off in a new direction, reduce reliance on the car, there is so much you can do on a cargo bike in your home town and a great way to cycle camp.
There are people on here moaning about the man who whispers. We have a customer who comes in the shop where I work. He whispers. He has throat cancer. Yes, cancer is annoying, isn't it?
No need to get snarky. A person whispering without apparent need is odd, and for people to wonder about that is not so strange. Either it is explained or people will speculate.
I found this while trying to find a bike trailer that can haul extra bikes. I frequently want to pick my kids up from places and gave them ride there bike home but I need a way to bike their bike to them.
3:13 Is that a VAZ 2107? I knew they were produced under a license in Egypt until 2011, and there are quite a few of them in former Soviet satellites, but Nicaragua?
It's interesting how cargo bikes of all shapes and sizes were in use all over the world long before the so called 'American cargo bikes' were thought of....
i prefer a bike that i can carry my stuff. Would help people with no Bus or Taxi around. i used to live way out in the sticks as they say. Only way to get anyplace, you had to have a machine to get your stuff, or even go too work for money. No side walks. so the best thing for a poor person would be a bike with some type of gear carry ability. I just always used racks that i would find in a store. And hope it would fit. Many times they dont fit all bikes. Its probably best to look for a bike that comes with racks.I thought about getting a two seater bike and adding a rack on the back seat post. I would say im above average bike rider. I knew bike racers who thought they could out ride me. But im a long time and hard rider. So my legs are used to riding long amounts of time. So they would puff out of energy after a hard ride a block or two. I can ride 50 miles hard riding. But i do prefer long relaxed rides with my gear. Like hiking on a bike :) I just love the ride. Im also a motorcycle rider. I do the same on my motorcycles. My gear and my ride.
No one cars and yes you are poor so you have to try and prove your better Schlep then the guy with the more expensive bike. You still work minion wages so save it.
just keep in mind that your 'poormans' bike works day in day out. Theirs need to go to the shop every week for repairs and need to be cleaned every day
When riding a bike in America, you must face this reality: Welcome to the Jungle. Total hostility toward the bike and pedestrians. Live in a cage, drive a cage.
I biked in the 1980’s to late 1990’s in Silicon Valley and mountain areas around it and the only hostile people I ever ran into on the road was other rude cyclist. Cyclist are the most self entitled spoiled brats u have seen. Always challenging cars and trucks. I always laugh because a car will always win that argument. You can’t be right all the way to the morgue when they scrape you off the pavement in a bloody sack of meat parts. Cyclist are the biggest arrogant turds I have seen
I‘m a cyclist, but riding on the street you are an obstacle and slowing down traffic - there is no gain in „sustainability“ if you are slowing down 5 cars behind you to 20 km/h.
I am having the same problems and ideas. I had to sell my car because of loosing my job because of a motorcycle injurie to my arm witch I am soon to have fixed in February with more surgery removing bone and a screw. I was debating useing the trailer I used to drag my kids around and bording it out so I can collect fire wood/ fallen trees. but the tracks are single or there are bars to onley alow bikes.
My new "extended" cargo bike is great , but I find that with a real heavy load (maybe 150 LBS or even more) the bike seems squirrely or unstable - When I see videos of people riding these bikes with all kinds of loads , I wonder if my own experience is somehow unique !
+Alan Scott I was just wondering how they would fit in a car or SUV to take on a trip. Its hard for me to fit my mountain bikes in my SUV. I also worry about getting them stolen. I have 3 locks, but all locks are easy to cut. Yeah i would not want a bike that is wobbly. Specially if i was riding long distance.
I don’t know, I can’t see this become a thing here in Denmark, but could be interesting to try. But after riding bikes since I was 3 years old, ridding in traffic before I turned 5 and own a Christiana bike, mtb and track bike and have ridden most bike created. I really can’t see the benefit in, a big load in the back. Maybe if you ride on small tracks, but stil still in my eyes you can almost do the same on a normal bike!? But a normal bike is more movable, because of short wheelbase.
This was great and it really gave me a rush to see groovy people getting high on life and bikes - and possibly other things but I can let that slide - I came back to bikes after 14?15 years absence? But it was the idea of no rushing to get somewhere to camp just get there and enjoy the journey which was sparked off by talking to a guy on the train going to work on his bike and i felt shame I had a bike doing nothing except the odd ride at a weekend when it wasn't raining. Yes, I admit to being a weather wuss when it comes to freezing rain in my face or stinging my legs and arms. But when you get passed that, when you don't care because you as a fat middle aged man just got up a huge hill and can barely breath feel so much better, you think - I know what I’m going to do now. now I've got two bikes and a trailer, I am buying another and ride regularly but need more as I am going to ride a weekend covering 147 miles to see rellies. When i get better, from here - Colne Lancashire to wherever by bike. 8 months in the saddle is on my mind, per year.
Pedego 101 Electric Bikes a normal Electric drive will take the average "cyclist" about 10 -12 miles (yes?). I don't see it taking a bike, plus trailer very far at all, for very long. so you will have to spend mega dollars to carry extra batteries. only to still be stuck in a long stretch somewhere with no "outlets" to recharge. A 2-stroke can take the average cyclist 80 -100 miles........ so "with trailer" I see at least 50 miles....... and it is "cheaper" to carry 1 - 2 gal (maybe even 5 gal) of fuel in the trailer with the other supplies
NinjaViking1 Many electric motors go 40-50 miles and that's plenty for most people who are commuting or running errands. Sounds like you are talking about touring and I don't have much experience with that.
Just buy a cheap PRC made mountain bike from Big5. I got mine on sale for $99; a Kent Shockwave, not bad, it's got a frame strong enough for a gorilla. Then modify it any way you want. I made my own rear carrier from scrap material I found around the yard.
This thing may change the world.. instead using gasoline Why dont we use our feet?? Less polution save earth and live a very simple and happy life.. I saw this in my dream bicycle will be useful than machines that eats gasoline and diesel Keep it up..
Good video but you don't need a bike like that to haul things (and I see no mention of stronger/thicker spokes which is the REAL ISSUE when it comes to hauling more weight. I know this from first hand experience. They will break.) I built my own hauler from an old schwinn cruiser step thru frame. Got on bikeman4u.com and ordered an extra heavy duty rear wheel with coaster brake (11 gauge spokes!) and the biggest rear baskets they sell plus a pletscher double kickstand so I can load groceries w/o it falling over. Best money I ever spent.
In my opinion when ya got a piece of shit to advertise, flash the pictures fast, zoom in or out a lot, talk about non specifics and don't let anyone read anything. I think this qualifies
What the fuck is up with the guy who is speaking but we can't hear or understand what the hell he is saying. Sometimes the answer is to pass on a project. Come on!
I hope we learn to live sustainably at some point. It seems like we are trying to move mountains. It's hard to stay motivated sometimes, but I suppose we must.
True , not only that but are a way of life now. The world economy depends on road and car building. And oil to fuel it . Even more sickening is it depends on war to fuel production of products for sale in the war business. Yes business. Sickening and disgusting .. if you think I am exaggerating, let's see you or the world get out of cars for a year..
In 1968 at Camp Sagamihara; The Japanese men who delivered the groceries from the base commissary. Pulled a wagon which had the capacity of a pickup bed. It connected right under the rear seat hitch. Of a upright ten speed bike. The trailer had two standard front wheels they used double tubes spaced for strength as required around the wheels...Bed was boards as i remember. These were awesome and incredibly practical i was 8 and have never forgotten them. Check asia history you might be impressed. :)
John Beltman everyone seems to forget how bicycle crazy Asia was for so long.
I love the idea that you work for the world development and train people who are from developing countries. You are awesome!
Good vid. Cargo/utility bikes should be sold everywhere.
Or even a cargo type trailer for a bicycle. The majority of the ones for sale are to haul kids, and wouldn't hold up to hauling cargo.
Thanks to this passionate people we have options.
So inspiring from many angles. Helping the world, product design, love of life.
ever since I was a kid I hated cars, I had a massive problem with car sickness when I was young combined with the smells it was just over stimulating. when I first heard about ebikes I was like: I'll just use that. I also saw how people lived in the suburbs and thought: When I buy a house I should just make that a business, and then I'll be the most successful shop in town. years later I still believe in that, and having learned about zoning laws, minimum parking, and the lobbying and manipulation of housing and transit, has confirmed what I knew. I for one cant wait for the bike and transit revolution this country needs.
That was awesome, Liz! Looking forward to the full feature.
Wheels! From hike to bike with compassion for others. It is amazing what a difference this has made for so many in need indeed! Just think of the possibilities for helping the poor in places where they have to carry such heavy loads.
I just have to share this wonderful video.
Love this video of families having fun and getting exercise while going wherever to do their daily chores!
So good! Thanks for your hard work!
Awesome! Love to see more.
Great video....
awsome idea!
I'm building a Kona up and adding the xtracycle soon! I really liked this bit.
LEGEND!
Great and Very Simple. I love your extended bike
This is incredible!
Very cool!
Parabéns sua história 👏👏👏
I love it!
Beautiful
I've been trying to build the same concept, though with a mountain bike in-mind ...that was when I was a teenager. I'm now 39 y.o. and I've been attempting the same when it comes to mopeds :)
woah :) super cool Xtracycle. Congratulation. Great!
que historias, me gusta el entusiasmo y placer con que hace las cosas, dar solución a la gente desde ese lugar de gusto
i never had such a longtail
but cycling is a great source of happyness
Love this!
Where can I get one? I need one! I want one to carry my 85 pound Retriever when he gets tired and as he ages. Thank you, Pete, for sharing.
I'm getting the foldable electric Xtracycle Cargo Joe. I'll show you later this week the video.
Yup. Bought and read that issue of 'Outside'...more about 'Everest' than the bicycle. But yeah...had gear too...
Awesome
I really do wish the American infrastructure would allow for a more bicycle friendly environment.I was just amazed one night watching House hunters international and the town this couple was thinking of moving to only allowed bicycles.
+mavspecialgirl1 It used to be that way. Sense cars came along, the car drivers think the roads are only for them. Bikes was around long before cars. Now their egos dont want to share with the bike riders. We must go fast all the time, get out of our way. And they have the nerve to call the bike riders assholes. I think its the other way around. You can be riding your bike on the side walk and they will get out of their cars and try and fight you. I have had it happen. Car people just hate bike riders now days. I have been sprayed with who knows what, yelled many things at me. Like bike riders are nerds to be bullied. The school bullies are now the car drivers hating on bike riders.
+Jojo Gun Fang Recently fiancee got hit in the back with a pellet gun while riding his bicycle.Yes I've had some close calls,most by assholes talking on their cell phones.
Jojo Crazy Cat bike riders are generally entitled assholes and always will loose remember that when arguing with a 2 ton car. A lot of good it does you when they scrape you off the pavement. You can argue your point from the morgue
Love it! It would be great to see people rocking these around North American cities as an alternative to cars.
Wish these were still in production
What a great american story - is there goig to be another installment? This was a great story to watch! Really good video also!
Thanks for your comment Steven. Consider supporting our feature length doc, LESS CAR MORE GO: www.kickstarter.com/projects/1887563980/less-car-more-go-the-cargo-bike-documentary
When you take The purpose yo guide your life. Respect.
Holy crap, today is the 5th, and I find out there's a free screening near me on the 8th. I'll will try my best to make time to cycle the 20+ miles to go see it!
awesome
a soulfood buffet - can't wait wait to see more =)
Actually Gary I'm hoping to capture a bit of the impact of bikeshare in LESS CAR MORE GO. The SF bay Area's CityCarShare is going to add 22 electric cargo bikes to its bikeshare program in the Spring 2014! I plan to capture the story and perhaps use it as an ending to the doc. Pretty cool stuff...
Guys before their time, innovative, Cargo bikes what a great way to simplify your life. You don't have to kill the family car, just step off in a new direction, reduce reliance on the car, there is so much you can do on a cargo bike in your home town and a great way to cycle camp.
There are people on here moaning about the man who whispers. We have a customer who comes in the shop where I work. He whispers. He has throat cancer. Yes, cancer is annoying, isn't it?
fucking right it is
Oh my good i was about to explain about that, feel so guilty now😰
No need to get snarky. A person whispering without apparent need is odd, and for people to wonder about that is not so strange. Either it is explained or people will speculate.
Yes, please.
I found this while trying to find a bike trailer that can haul extra bikes. I frequently want to pick my kids up from places and gave them ride there bike home but I need a way to bike their bike to them.
very cool some days i have to pick up my daughter from school on my bike and roll her biker struggle all the way to school
3:13 Is that a VAZ 2107? I knew they were produced under a license in Egypt until 2011, and there are quite a few of them in former Soviet satellites, but Nicaragua?
That was fun
we need this with PAS in the central Alleghenies Ridge and Valley region of Pennsylvania.
where can i get one of these? i lve in portugal...
It's interesting how cargo bikes of all shapes and sizes were in use all over the world long before the so called 'American cargo bikes' were thought of....
i prefer a bike that i can carry my stuff. Would help people with no Bus or Taxi around. i used to live way out in the sticks as they say. Only way to get anyplace, you had to have a machine to get your stuff, or even go too work for money. No side walks. so the best thing for a poor person would be a bike with some type of gear carry ability. I just always used racks that i would find in a store. And hope it would fit. Many times they dont fit all bikes. Its probably best to look for a bike that comes with racks.I thought about getting a two seater bike and adding a rack on the back seat post. I would say im above average bike rider. I knew bike racers who thought they could out ride me. But im a long time and hard rider. So my legs are used to riding long amounts of time. So they would puff out of energy after a hard ride a block or two. I can ride 50 miles hard riding. But i do prefer long relaxed rides with my gear. Like hiking on a bike :) I just love the ride. Im also a motorcycle rider. I do the same on my motorcycles. My gear and my ride.
No one cars and yes you are poor so you have to try and prove your better Schlep then the guy with the more expensive bike. You still work minion wages so save it.
If you are interested in cargo bikes, check out a new model from Pelican-bike, in Denmark.
I know the feeling when im surrounded with people who ride high end bikes and i ride a poormans bike while waiting for the light to go green
just keep in mind that your 'poormans' bike works day in day out. Theirs need to go to the shop every week for repairs and need to be cleaned every day
People who own high end bikes worry about them being stolen.Better to buy an old bike and make it healthy,who cares if the paint work is in a bad way?
When riding a bike in America, you must face this reality: Welcome to the Jungle. Total hostility toward the bike and pedestrians. Live in a cage, drive a cage.
I happen to live in Miami now. ;)
Or "Drive in a Cage, live in a Rage" which so often seems to be the truth!
I biked in the 1980’s to late 1990’s in Silicon Valley and mountain areas around it and the only hostile people I ever ran into on the road was other rude cyclist. Cyclist are the most self entitled spoiled brats u have seen. Always challenging cars and trucks. I always laugh because a car will always win that argument. You can’t be right all the way to the morgue when they scrape you off the pavement in a bloody sack of meat parts. Cyclist are the biggest arrogant turds I have seen
I‘m a cyclist, but riding on the street you are an obstacle and slowing down traffic - there is no gain in „sustainability“ if you are slowing down 5 cars behind you to 20 km/h.
@@johnpossum556 I certainly have experienced road rage towards cyclists here in Central Pennsylvania
I am having the same problems and ideas. I had to sell my car because of loosing my job because of a motorcycle injurie to my arm witch I am soon to have fixed in February with more surgery removing bone and a screw. I was debating useing the trailer I used to drag my kids around and bording it out so I can collect fire wood/ fallen trees. but the tracks are single or there are bars to onley alow bikes.
what is the song at 4:30?
When did Surly get involved...?
Why not put the Cargo on the front and back? Like they have in Copenhagen
Xtrabike is a great idea
Liz,,,bike share is really making an impact for bicycling in many cities. that would be a new film project for you?
Did this ever get made? If so is it available to purchase anywhere? Thanks.
motherloadmovie.com
I breath exhaust fumes when I ride
My new "extended" cargo bike is great , but I find that with a real heavy load (maybe 150 LBS or even more) the bike seems squirrely or unstable -
When I see videos of people riding these bikes with all kinds of loads , I wonder if my own experience is somehow unique !
+Alan Scott I was just wondering how they would fit in a car or SUV to take on a trip. Its hard for me to fit my mountain bikes in my SUV. I also worry about getting them stolen. I have 3 locks, but all locks are easy to cut. Yeah i would not want a bike that is wobbly. Specially if i was riding long distance.
There's no other way to put it- the Big Dummy changed my life. And it's because of Xtracycle and Ross Evans and the good folks at Surly.
Hey Liz. Are you on Kickstarter with this ? Can I help ? I have a Trek Transport so I think I can relate.
What`s a normal Bike?
bicycles ,trailer, transporting, function, fun you my friend are 1000% in my book and that's all I can say.
is this film available to view somewhere?
motherloadmovie.com
I don’t know, I can’t see this become a thing here in Denmark, but could be interesting to try.
But after riding bikes since I was 3 years old, ridding in traffic before I turned 5 and own a Christiana bike, mtb and track bike and have ridden most bike created. I really can’t see the benefit in, a big load in the back. Maybe if you ride on small tracks, but stil still in my eyes you can almost do the same on a normal bike!? But a normal bike is more movable, because of short wheelbase.
All my Bikes are Cargo Bikes
This was great and it really gave me a rush to see groovy people getting high on life and bikes - and possibly other things but I can let that slide - I came back to bikes after 14?15 years absence? But it was the idea of no rushing to get somewhere to camp just get there and enjoy the journey which was sparked off by talking to a guy on the train going to work on his bike and i felt shame I had a bike doing nothing except the odd ride at a weekend when it wasn't raining.
Yes, I admit to being a weather wuss when it comes to freezing rain in my face or stinging my legs and arms. But when you get passed that, when you don't care because you as a fat middle aged man just got up a huge hill and can barely breath feel so much better, you think - I know what I’m going to do now. now I've got two bikes and a trailer, I am buying another and ride regularly but need more as I am going to ride a weekend covering 147 miles to see rellies.
When i get better, from here - Colne Lancashire to wherever by bike. 8 months in the saddle is on my mind, per year.
I think most stuff transported here could be done on a tandem with the rear position 'removed'...
................or even by trailer which can be unhitched from the bike when not required.
so how do these work how do these work with a 2 stroke or a 4 stroke engine mounted?
NinjaViking1 Most people are using electric motors -- better for the environment, quieter, no bad odors, less vibration and less weight.
Pedego 101 Electric Bikes
a normal Electric drive will take the average "cyclist" about 10 -12 miles (yes?).
I don't see it taking a bike, plus trailer very far at all, for very long.
so you will have to spend mega dollars to carry extra batteries.
only to still be stuck in a long stretch somewhere with no "outlets" to recharge.
A 2-stroke can take the average cyclist 80 -100 miles........
so "with trailer" I see at least 50 miles.......
and it is "cheaper" to carry 1 - 2 gal (maybe even 5 gal)
of fuel in the trailer with the other supplies
NinjaViking1 Many electric motors go 40-50 miles and that's plenty for most people who are commuting or running errands. Sounds like you are talking about touring and I don't have much experience with that.
I want The Carrygo Cargo Bike with an RV built on it for coast to coast bike travel - how much would that cost me lol.
Back when the bags where heavy and the riders where strong
If The XTRA CYCLE will fit on the back of a Car America is ready!
pass the torch to me i got this
Just buy a cheap PRC made mountain bike from Big5. I got mine on sale for $99; a Kent Shockwave, not bad, it's got a frame strong enough for a gorilla. Then modify it any way you want. I made my own rear carrier from scrap material I found around the yard.
Don't mean to be negative, but these are all over Holland. Have been for decades
Mostly Bakfiets (I have one, not common in the USA)
whats the point?
Nothing free in the Land of the Free. Pure, raw capitalism.
wy the one dude whispering?
that guy is so freaking weird LOL
Uhhhh,,,too secretive????
Throat cancer
@@WilliamL1988 throat cancer
Kinda seems like everyone hated InterBike.
The Dutch started it all, quite a while back...
I'd much rather have a proper Bakfiets. More cargo space and you can keep an eye on what you have.
I always have 200 pounds on my normal bike
Maybe loose some weight?
ps there were no fat Japanese like I am in Japan in the 1960's unless they were sumo...
This thing may change the world.. instead using gasoline
Why dont we use our feet??
Less polution save earth and live a very simple and happy life..
I saw this in my dream bicycle will be useful than machines that eats gasoline and diesel
Keep it up..
bike hipies
The best cargo bike for me is the nihola brand,you do not need to balance your bike anymore.
Too complicated. Here we just use a regular bike and add a side car. Cargo and passenger use.
Bikes are saving millions of gallons of gas a day.
Guys, why do you need a vegetable oil fuelled bus to go around? Take your cargo bikes! Be free!
LOL drama queens, it's just another cargo bike :)
but keep it on...
Why does this guy Whisper?
lol because he is a cool cat!
Good video but you don't need a bike like that to haul things (and I see no mention of stronger/thicker spokes which is the REAL ISSUE when it comes to hauling more weight. I know this from first hand experience. They will break.)
I built my own hauler from an old schwinn cruiser step thru frame. Got on bikeman4u.com and ordered an extra heavy duty rear wheel with coaster brake (11 gauge spokes!) and the biggest rear baskets they sell plus a pletscher double kickstand so I can load groceries w/o it falling over. Best money I ever spent.
Bicycles are competition to the dinosaurs.
In my opinion when ya got a piece of shit to advertise, flash the pictures fast, zoom in or out a lot, talk about non specifics and don't let anyone read anything. I think this qualifies
We will make this bike utopia happen somewhere in the world. Then the situation will be reversed and the car will better watch out.
whats with the whispering guy?
THROAT CANCER!
I like the concept, but the jump cuts, jittery cam, and shaky cam ruin the video. . . had to stop watching it.
What the fuck is up with the guy who is speaking but we can't hear or understand what the hell he is saying. Sometimes the answer is to pass on a project. Come on!
Cars are Destroying the environment
+David L Eating meat even more so. Go vegan.
+Mike Meagher I concur!
Mike Meagher, I disagree.
I hope we learn to live sustainably at some point. It seems like we are trying to move mountains. It's hard to stay motivated sometimes, but I suppose we must.
True , not only that but are a way of life now. The world economy depends on road and car building. And oil to fuel it . Even more sickening is it depends on war to fuel production of products for sale in the war business. Yes business. Sickening and disgusting .. if you think I am exaggerating, let's see you or the world get out of cars for a year..