@s devrim The Prophet had 1 Wife after she died he had other wifes . He also married wifes of fallen soldiers in order to care for them . He had no sexual intercourse with all of them and Aisha should be one of them. Dont try to see the world of today you have to think about circumstances and the time. You dont even have to go back 100 years to see that it was common to marry in Europe with 13-15 .
Bullshit...., Hw much u been paid...? Or rather u r just A plain murtad....if murtad...u got all e right...it's a free world right....? Free till ur soul at ur throat.......till then u still got time to go back to God..... .
As opposed to the equally stultifying secular repression of atheistic regimes (USSR, China, Nazi Germany) or a secular academic culture like the one that has shunned Ms. Ali for expressing politically incorrect opinions.
Ayaan, you are my hero.. home one day we all will make a better, humane world. Thanks for spreading your intellectual, rational thinking all over the world.
*Sadly, I think that Manji is in more danger than Hirsi Ali* Muslims don't listen to Hirsi Ali. She's an apostate. She's not Muslim. Manji talks to Muslims and some listen. She wants to reform Islam. She is far more dangerous to Islamists and Jihadists than Ali. I pray she keeps safe. Both are awesome and inspiring women, who can work together to make good.
She is a fraud. Look up the investigation of her past. She Lied her life completely. Then picked up,by intelligence to be front line fraud government agency.
Ignorant people tend to flock together. Sadly people get their education from clips on youtube. You will find what your looking for. Maybe look for the truth about Islam
She sells pure lies. She can’t even read The Qur’an so she makes up lies in the $6 billion+ taxpayer industry in The US. She singles out Islam for a reason, and it’s AIPAC money.
@@canimou atleast she is not calling killing and innocent human beings like muslims do because someone said something about islam or their madman prophet mohamad she is Somali hero
@@najkavlado5698 So what happened in The Iraq War, The Afghanistan War, The current apartheid of Palestinians by jewish colonists from West Europe? Read up or stay ignorant.
I don't think I've ever seen a person as calm as Ayaan. I have never EVER even heard her raise her voice, let alone yell. The word peaceful = Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Muhammed Hussain There are so many inhumane and bigoted cruelties in the teachings for centuries muslims have reinforces the need to pracise these inhumanities among each other through yearly pilgrimage etc. Christians in general has learned to update themselves about modern humanitarian values and learn to leave certain bible teachings behind for the sake of a more harmonious and progressive human society .. It saddens me tremendously everyday when I open the newspaper .. more often than not there is a case of cruelty against women, gays, non-muslims/atheists, critics of Islam/muslims, etc... and I'm not even talking about ISIS yet ..
Aisha was 6 years old were islam started. Allah raped that poor girl when he was 54 years old. That makes Allah a criminal and a pedophile. And that piece of shit must leading you the way,how to live??????????????????????????///
I'm a Chrstian and I kinda agree with Irshads approach. Ayaan's approach is too radical for 1.57 billion people. We're talking about 1.57 billion people to drop Muslim and look elsewhere for a God. Irshads approach is to reform "not" the Koran but how it is interpreted, and weed out the contradictions written in a 7century book that's making a lot of Muslim people suffers.
+Luke McCalister the problem is there is no such thing as a moderate muslim. the same way new age movement is not Christian. the quran speaks against the "moderate muslim" it says they are not true believers. I'm a Christian, but in order to reform Islam you half to get rid of the ladder half of the quran. Muslims will have to live only by the old because the ladder calls for bloodshed and the quran says the old is abragated
+Da Truth sets free : You have a disturted view of the Quran, you need to read the book to critisize it. What we need is to change the way some Muslims think. Please look at the Wahabist views on Islam. This is the source of most of the radicalisation in Islam. You want to disband the latter half of the book. Have you thaught about which part of your Bible you want to distroy, or the Jewish Torah for that matter.
I don't think people understand what Hirsi went through... and what countless women go through. She's got enormous courage to stand up against oppressors not only understanding, but comprehending what they're capable of.
Over all, a very nice, pluralist, open discussion. Both women are incredibly talented and erudite. Fareed did a solid job staying largely impartial. He's a force for fairness and conversation. Great meeting of minds here.
Not so much a debate, as a fruitful conversation between two wise and constructive women. Which is exactly what is needed. :) Thank you Fareed, thank you CNN! Edit: except Ayaan's move to start propagating for Christianity. I don't see how that would work. Better to free morality from religion's clutch altogether.
She is simply offering an alternative for the vacuum left for former Muslims. Christianity is relatively a benign religion by comparison. Perhaps in her mind ... it is a healthy transition to atheism.
Islam is a death cult. It is no different then a Jim Jones type of religion. Muhammad silenced his critics in a time where barbarism was common. Had he lived today he would be laughed off the internet. His only weapon was being born at the right time. It was a perfect storm in the Middle East.
I believe you are missing her point.she stated that she was not a Christian but that the message of Jesus Christ is a message of peace and morality,and that if you feel the need to worship a God you should focus on worshipping a God who's message is not a message of death and destruction but rather a message of equality among all human's
Adam Lecckius, one Ayan hirsi is a douche bag cheap liar con artist! She lied, deceived, hoodwinked the West to immigrate to Europe! You have a criminal among westerners! That is not uncommon! Birds of same feather flock ... ??
Sanaulla she is exposing your wicked religion for what it is. There is nothing more believable than a converted Muslim and their first hand experience with the evils of Islam and Muslims.
she didn't mean to say that it should be required by law, only that it would be a smart thing to do for them. As it would be with all the religious people. No matter what religion
I'm pretty sure she means they should CHOOSE to do it. If they like their religion so much they should stay in those countries where that religion holds sway (although they might pause to wonder why they are compelled to flee those same countries in favor of one founded on an entirely different set of religious principles). She's not saying the government should force them to abandon their religion.
And she has a point. It seems more and more obvious that the ideology and doctrine of the Quran, are absolutely incompatible with first world, western societies.
I love the pseudo-clickbait title. It turns out they're having a respectful discussion from two different viewpoints and consistently supporting each other in spite of passionately sharing different ideas.
Irshad Manji you the greatest , thank you very much for showing Muslims the reality , smart one will learn and re direct there headings and the ignorant will stay ignorant and will suffer. Reply ·
I have a lot of qualms about Ms. Ali's characterizations of Christianity, having been brought up a Christian and spending some time, regrettably, in a fundamentalist church before my disgust grew too great. There is an active strain within the Christian faith, especially in some Protestant churches and especially in American ones, that is pretty much the equivalent of the radical Salafi Islamic factions. Like them, they are a minority; like them, they thrive on the type of de-centralized institutional structure that Ms. Ali discusses; like them, if given political power they would be every single bit as intolerant, violent, and oppressive. Where they differ is that Europe and the US made a split between Church and State that puts limits on how much political power any Christian denomination can have. In the US especially, that line has been eroding for the past 40 years and is something we should be paying more attention to, perhaps instead of obsessing about the faults of Islam. Since she didn't grow up in a Christian-based culture she can't really be expected to be aware of the complications of those cultures. Otherwise, this was a really interesting and insightful interview with both women, and they both make some keen observations. Mr. Zakaria is a good moderator as well. Good show!
***** There are, in fact, various Muslim organisations who do all kinds of humanitarian work similar to this. You can't have a religion with one of its 5 pillars of faith being alms-giving and caring for the poor, widowed and orphaned, without having such things. Just look a little harder, and try not to assume such things don't exist for Muslims.
***** GIve them time, there'll be more. Anyway, quite a bit of the anti-homosexual laws in places like Uganda and other countries in Africa have more to do with Christian conservative groups from the US agitating there than it does with Muslims. The Christians are only a couple decades ahead in that regard, literally a couple decades, maybe 4 at most. I wouldn't start crowing about how backwards Muslims are and progressive Christians are just yet.
The craziest part about Hirsi is she hates Islam so much but she has not changed her Muslim name yet. WHY?? Because that name brought her so much fame and recognition. If these two ladies weren't bashing Islam, would you see them on TV?? No
Also she brags about circumcision in islam but never mentions the fact that Judaism preaches the same thing. Atheists are usually against all religions. But she seems to be only attacking islam. Hmm
I respect both these women and admire their efforts toward making the world a better place. Focusing simply on the exchange in this video, in the final comment at the end of the vid, Ayaan really nailed it. This is not the 16th century--the time of Luther--at this point, we can also pursue a path of encouragement to those Muslims questioning the general value and validity of their ideology and its manifesto (i.e. Qur'an).
very good chat between three Muslims. they are a good example for those who directly link Islam to terrorism without thinking they human being like anyone else .father mother brother sister. son .family etc. I think both ayan and irshad are right. irshad wants to bring in an open mindedness which id now absent for some reasons. sorry for my last comment. I am not an Islam hater. plenty of my friends are Muslims.
Islam is not a religion, it's a totalitarian ideology that uses its religious beginning to subvert modern societies in its quest to dominate the world.
I love what Ayaan is saying, and I don't like what Irshad is saying. Islam can't be reformed as its most sacred scripts has inborn violence and barbarism. So don't fall for that. And until the truth is faced the problem will not be solved.
Love what this girl is doing. But in my opinion, you don't need a "God" to give you a moral compass or to tell you how to live. It's actually kinda scary that people need an ideology to tell them the difference between right and wrong.
Yusuf Drake The golden rule. Treat others as you like to be treated. It's basic human empathy. Why is rape wrong? Because, idk, I wouldn't want to be raped? If you can put yourself in someone else's shoes, knowing what is right vs wrong is usually pretty clear in most cases.
So if one society decides for themselves that rape is acceptable, or theft is acceptable.. who is anyone else to tell them that it's wrong? what if that society lives by another rule called the Dark rule where anything goes and the strong survive.. and they claim this is basic natural instinct? Who can tell them that raping, stealing or murdering is wrong..? This is subjective morality and the objective morality that you're speaking of, where if 99% of the world were to start raping.. it doesnt change the fact that its wrong, this exists because it is how we were created. If you deny the creator, you deny objective morality.. My question simply is, Who decided what is "right" and who decided what is "wrong". If God does not exist. Are we not just animals then? and if we by chance do have a society that comes together to say murder is wrong.. then you might still have a minority that says murder is right and now you have an oppressed minority in that society.. i believe we were created with a fitra, and a fitra is basically the innate moral compass where you know or feel what is wrong from wrong.. of course this compass can be corrupted as u grow up.. but we are all born on it.. Many leading atheists have called on people to abandon objective morality all together because they know there is no ground to which they can hold that claim...
I don't consider the golden rule to be "objective" morality. Do one to others as you wish others to do to you, is in itself, subjective. So yes, another culture could consider rape, to use your example, to be culturally acceptable, it is by far in the minority, and is more often than not influenced by said culture and more often than not, radical aspects of some form of religion. At the end of the day, I just treat people nicely because I feel it is right, and I want to be treated nicely myself. I don't need a book, or an invisible man in the sky judging me to tell me to do so.
She IS Reza Aslan. No, seriously, she had a short debate with him and, in the space of an hour, you got a sense of just how amenable to reason Manji is - compared to Aslan.
Yayada Why why why are you praying 5 times a day,toward a criminal pedophile prophet???????? You cal that justice??? It should be a crime to pray for that rapist. Poor 6 year old Aisha.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali born in Marxist Somalia in the late 60's where Islam was completely banned from public life, she was born in a middle class secular family and attended a private Catholic school in Nairobi. Does everyone who criticises Islam become an expert nowadays? Long gone are the days of Bernard Lewis who actually had knowledge of what he was criticising now we have people like Hirsi Ali who can't speak a word of Arabic and never lived in a Muslim majority country for more than 5 years being called an expert. She is good though! She made her career out of this 👍
Wow, what a beautiful mind and dare I say it, soul, Ayaan Hirsi Ali has. Her charisma is going to waste as an atheist. She should have started a cult! Keep doing what you're doing, both of you ladies.
It's not a dialogue but a consipiracy when 3 like-minded people discuss an issue like this. Some main-stream Muslim should also have been there to have their say.
People need to first ask themselves if they need *any* religion. It's not difficult to simply accept life as it is with a beginning and an end that leave what's in between as the important part because its the *only* part we really know anything about! Plenty of secular people lead happy, productive, moral lives without entertaining silly notions about supernatural beings or forces! If people want to join a social club and discuss imaginative ideas about life, that's fine, but they shouldn't take nonsense seriously.
Its fashionable to say religion/ beleiving in life after death is for uneducated rubes. But consider that einstein, david bohm ( quantum physics) believed in god. Francis crick ( co discoverer of DNA) admitted it could not have evolved but must have come from outer space... or something. But go ahead and beleive you are just a meaningless assembly of cells...
MrAussieJules First, I don't care if it's 'fashionable'; I've considered religion to be ridiculous for nearly a half-century! Second, you offer rather weak examples: Einstein didn't believe in an afterlife, and was not a theist, he was more like a Deist; Francis Crick is an Atheist, like he says; Bhom was open to supernatural thinking, including believing that Uri Geller could bend spoons with his mind. Religious people usually cite the meaninglessness of Atheism. Unless you're an Atheist, you won't likely understand how silly that idea is. Knowing that our lives are limited by death give *more* urgency to make our lives count with legacy for others. Before you go spouting off about this subject, you should become *much* better informed. Otherwise, you're spreading bullshit!
Dominique Jenkins You're making a false equivalence. Judgement & opinion are abstractions that cannot bear evidence. There's a difference between deriving conclusions about reality & its workings with evidence versus imagining something supernatural as extant without evidence. The former can be verified by anyone, whereas the latter cannot be verified by anyone. So you've 'taught' it. Did it ever occur to you that repeating or making statements that are counterfactual is fraudulent? Teaching is a profession that should impart critical-thinking skills as well as honest knowledge itself; in that, you fail. When you 'teach' anybody about ideas that cannot be confirmed or tested as statements, you might as well be lying to them because you cannot know anything about undetectable objects, forces or entities. Have you 'thought' about that? I suggest that you study Enlightenment philosophers & modern epistemologists like David Hume, Adam Smith,Voltaire, Bertrand Russel, Karl Popper & Daniel Dennett. These people refined the definition of science as the methodical acquisition of knowledge through evidence and falsifiability. Without evidence, what you 'teach' is not knowledge.
So, just because Quran says that Mother's feet is like Paradise and to give Charity, it is the right religion for you?? All the religion does that and most does it much better than Islam. What they don't have is Prophet who kills, murders, rapes, pillages, and destroys and moreover ENCOURAGE muslims to fight till death for their religion. Absolute nonsense!. Islam is a cult and Ayaan Hirsi Ali is one of the bravest human being I have encountered in my brave, to go against such a sick perverted religion and its zombie adherents. Did you know her friend was stabbed in the chest with a note telling Ayaan she is the next?? Tell me what is the penalty for apostasy in Islam? And also tell me what does it say about beating your wife? Who comes up with this medieval nonsense and still thinks it is some sort of divine message??
When I see this hatred from Muslims towards Ayaan, it tells me one thing... She is right! Keep up the hate, your filthy religion is showing it's shit again.
She's not. She's an extremist herself and wants to "crush" Islam and leave no tolerance for Muslims. Read on, Reason: Why the initial aversion? Hirsi Ali: Because I thought they would be religious, and I had become an atheist. And I don't consider myself a conservative. I consider myself a classical liberal. Anyway, the Brookings Institution did not react. Johns Hopkins said they didn't have enough money. The RAND Corporation wants its people to spend their days and nights in libraries figuring out statistics, and I'm very bad at statistics. But at AEI they were enthusiastic. It turns out that I have complete freedom of thought, freedom of expression. No one here imposed their religion on me, and I don't impose my atheism on them. Reason: Do you see eye to eye with high-profile AEI hawks such as former Bush speechwriter David Frum and former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton? Hirsi Ali: Most of the time I do. For instance, I completely and utterly agree with John Bolton that talking to Iran is a sheer waste of time." "Hirsi Ali: Only if Islam is defeated. Because right now, the political side of Islam, the power-hungry expansionist side of Islam, has become superior to the Sufis and the Ismailis and the peace-seeking Muslims. Reason: Don't you mean defeating radical Islam? Hirsi Ali: No. Islam, period. Once it's defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful. It's very difficult to even talk about peace now. They're not interested in peace. Reason: We have to crush the world's 1.5 billion Muslims under our boot? In concrete terms, what does that mean, "defeat Islam"? Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there's no middle ground in wars. Islam can be defeated in many ways. For starters, you stop the spread of the ideology itself; at present, there are native Westerners converting to Islam, and they're the most fanatical sometimes. There is infiltration of Islam in the schools and universities of the West. You stop that. You stop the symbol burning and the effigy burning, and you look them in the eye and flex your muscles and you say, "This is a warning. We won't accept this anymore." There comes a moment when you crush your enemy. Reason: Militarily? Hirsi Ali: In all forms, and if you don't do that, then you have to live with the consequence of being crushed."
SuperCerebelum But even according to the imperatives as written in the Koran, Islam is in a war with everybody else. If sharia law were implemented, the Koran immutable, and Muhammad exemplary as written, then ISIS has it right. The position on the Koran and Muhammad will need to change for the broader Islamic society. Implicitly has has changed among some. If it doesn't, it will continue to be at war, and Al Qaeda, or Al Nusra, or Isis, or the Taliban will periodically take all scripture literally and attack on the pretext of disbelief alone. Islam cannot have a doctrine of belligerence, followed by actions of belligerence and not expect belligerence in response.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali, is a step a ahead of Irshad. Because, Ayaan Hirsi Ali knows the futility of any efforts to reform Islam, perhaps. Let Irshad work through it.....
song4night I get you just fine. Your self absorbed and ignorant hatred is repulsive. Moslem is not a race, it is persons who believe in Islam, if you didn't know that, your ignorance of the subject is abominable. Do you know that Muslims believe in Jesus, the Virgin Birth, the Miracles? Obviously not. You are caught in your own narrow minded and very limited view of what Jesus taught. Hirsi Ali did not support what you say, not at all, quite the opposite but you are so self involved, you believe it? Read your own gospels and then branch out.
By my silence you should take it that your incapacity for intelligent discussion is unworthy of debate. You have no idea at all what you are talking about, no knowledge of Muslims or this subject. Don't be arrogant - that is my message to YOU. You will have a life time of silence and from that the only thing you can "understand" is contempt for your mind. Thanks for being stupid.
Shy says song4night not using their real name and not saying anything worth reading. If you think someone is right, give something like a reasoned explanation, demonstrating knowledge of the subject - you can't.
I appreciate that Ms Manji wants to bring about reform to her religion, and wish her every bit of success on that road. I do worry that it such reforms may not be possible..
Ayaan Hirsi needs just to change religion and become Christian if she doesn't like Islam. Obviously she never read the Quran and has no idea about Islam. I understand she is making more and more money by more and more criticizing Islam so she will be more and more invited by media and considered as a star. In the western media more you are islamophobe more you will be listened to and invited to TV show. Nowadays it is a good marketing strategy if you want to make money..
reasons for growth 1.Muslim family 4-5 kids;others 2 or less 2.nobody can leave Islam,or they are dead 3.Muslim marries into some other religion,partner has to convert to Islam;never other way round 4.may be multiple wives? 5.mullah's fatwas against birth control 6.Taqiyaa;people,mostly females get fooled. -so no strangeness in it
you confirm your ignorance. There are 20000 converts in USA every year, 75000 in UK etc.the strangest thing is that 75% of the converts are women. These are facts from western observatories not from Muslim sources.
cjs maan Again! Mullah is a shia notion. There r no Mullah in Islam. There is no high authority like a Vatican in Islam that what makes Islam naturally democratic. Anyway you have your own opinion and I have mine.
"I have faith, but I have faith in human reason" - Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Human reason is finite, Gods reason is infinite , Aryaan reason is less the average college
Student
Baz Mohiuddin
Your god does not exist, Ayaan's logic does. I know which I'm going with
@s devrim The Prophet had 1 Wife after she died he had other wifes . He also married wifes of fallen soldiers in order to care for them . He had no sexual intercourse with all of them and Aisha should be one of them. Dont try to see the world of today you have to think about circumstances and the time. You dont even have to go back 100 years to see that it was common to marry in Europe with 13-15 .
@@bazmohiuddin2882 First, god must exist to have wisdom or any other kind of agency.
@@braveapollo5872 yup
I Agree with Ayan 100%. I left Islam when I was 14 years old and never been happier since.
May allah have mercy with you
Bullshit...., Hw much u been paid...? Or rather u r just A plain murtad....if murtad...u got all e right...it's a free world right....? Free till ur soul at ur throat.......till then u still got time to go back to God.....
.
Same here
Ayaan, you are NOT a failure, you are a hero for risking your life to speak out against ancient barbarism!
two sane intelligent women who think for themselves and putting out brilliant examples of how women can be when freed fron religious repression
well put
As opposed to the equally stultifying secular repression of atheistic regimes (USSR, China, Nazi Germany) or a secular academic culture like the one that has shunned Ms. Ali for expressing politically incorrect opinions.
gaglir
So you say its not a crime to pray towarrd a criminal pedophile warlord,with the name Allah?????????
You must be joking hee.
I love how she keeps her calm. Very admirable.
qwertyu600 agreed
Two very courageous and articulate woman
Irshad Manji never disappoints. It's refreshing seeing true scholars, true thinkers dissect society!
True scholars?? Lol clearly youve done zero research on who these people are.
Ayaan, you are my hero.. home one day we all will make a better, humane world. Thanks for spreading your intellectual, rational thinking all over the world.
Ayaan is so smart and articulate. I agree with her.
Ayaan Harshi ali always straight forward with truth, facts she is the best.
*Sadly, I think that Manji is in more danger than Hirsi Ali*
Muslims don't listen to Hirsi Ali. She's an apostate. She's not Muslim.
Manji talks to Muslims and some listen. She wants to reform Islam. She is far more dangerous to Islamists and Jihadists than Ali. I pray she keeps safe.
Both are awesome and inspiring women, who can work together to make good.
100% with Ayaan!
She is a fraud. Look up the investigation of her past. She Lied her life completely. Then picked up,by intelligence to be front line fraud government agency.
Ignorant people tend to flock together. Sadly people get their education from clips on youtube. You will find what your looking for. Maybe look for the truth about Islam
@@addonisa9841islamo-leftists demonize people who they dont agree with
These are two very strong very brave women.
only women talks against the bad in Islam & for the good in Islam, I respect these women.....
She sells pure lies. She can’t even read The Qur’an so she makes up lies in the $6 billion+ taxpayer industry in The US. She singles out Islam for a reason, and it’s AIPAC money.
Ayaan is so beautiful.
Realy???? Eugh....She looks like Drogba the footballer
it seems Muslim women are more educated, fearless & honest.
Noloso
Zakaria, Hirsi Ali & Manji are all gifted, nuanced thinkers. If Islam had more thinkers like these three the world would be a much better place.
How calm and composed ayan is!!!
Always
It is not calm, it means heartless. She is in search of fame by using Islam.
@@canimou lol islam is trash
@@canimou atleast she is not calling killing and innocent human beings like muslims do because someone said something about islam or their madman prophet mohamad she is Somali hero
@@najkavlado5698 So what happened in The Iraq War, The Afghanistan War, The current apartheid of Palestinians by jewish colonists from West Europe? Read up or stay ignorant.
I don't think I've ever seen a person as calm as Ayaan. I have never EVER even heard her raise her voice, let alone yell. The word peaceful = Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Wow ..... 2 extremely intelligent, brave and heroic women in 1 room ... thats a moment in time ..
I do agree with you,the fact is you left out one last word realistic ladies...
uuduu7, brother tell me more about her.I dont find any fault in Islam.
Muhammed Hussain
There are so many inhumane and bigoted cruelties in the teachings for centuries muslims have reinforces the need to pracise these inhumanities among each other through yearly pilgrimage etc. Christians in general has learned to update themselves about modern humanitarian values and learn to leave certain bible teachings behind for the sake of a more harmonious and progressive human society ..
It saddens me tremendously everyday when I open the newspaper .. more often than not there is a case of cruelty against women, gays, non-muslims/atheists, critics of Islam/muslims, etc... and I'm not even talking about ISIS yet ..
Aisha was 6 years old were islam started.
Allah raped that poor girl when he was 54 years old.
That makes Allah a criminal and a pedophile.
And that piece of shit must leading you the way,how to live??????????????????????????///
@@Jan-vc1qg educate your self first then talk about islam
Irshad's approach to the problem is to put lipstick on a pig.
your mom!! what, she's a pig wtf? go get checked loony
I agree I actually think putting a fresh of coat of paint in a rotting wooden pillar.
I'm a Chrstian and I kinda agree with Irshads approach. Ayaan's approach is too radical for 1.57 billion people. We're talking about 1.57 billion people to drop Muslim and look elsewhere for a God. Irshads approach is to reform "not" the Koran but how it is interpreted, and weed out the contradictions written in a 7century book that's making a lot of Muslim people suffers.
+Luke McCalister the problem is there is no such thing as a moderate muslim. the same way new age movement is not Christian. the quran speaks against the "moderate muslim" it says they are not true believers. I'm a Christian, but in order to reform Islam you half to get rid of the ladder half of the quran. Muslims will have to live only by the old because the ladder calls for bloodshed and the quran says the old is abragated
+Da Truth sets free : You have a disturted view of the Quran, you need to read the book to critisize it. What we need is to change the way some Muslims think. Please look at the Wahabist views on Islam. This is the source of most of the radicalisation in Islam. You want to disband the latter half of the book. Have you thaught about which part of your Bible you want to distroy, or the Jewish Torah for that matter.
Wow, i love those ladies.
I don't think people understand what Hirsi went through... and what countless women go through. She's got enormous courage to stand up against oppressors not only understanding, but comprehending what they're capable of.
Over all, a very nice, pluralist, open discussion. Both women are incredibly talented and erudite. Fareed did a solid job staying largely impartial. He's a force for fairness and conversation. Great meeting of minds here.
Two of my favourite people, Ayaan and Irshad.
Not so much a debate, as a fruitful conversation between two wise and constructive women. Which is exactly what is needed. :) Thank you Fareed, thank you CNN!
Edit: except Ayaan's move to start propagating for Christianity. I don't see how that would work. Better to free morality from religion's clutch altogether.
She is simply offering an alternative for the vacuum left for former Muslims. Christianity is relatively a benign religion by comparison. Perhaps in her mind ... it is a healthy transition to atheism.
Islam is a death cult. It is no different then a Jim Jones type of religion.
Muhammad silenced his critics in a time where barbarism was common. Had he lived today he would be laughed off the internet. His only weapon was being born at the right time. It was a perfect storm in the Middle East.
I believe you are missing her point.she stated that she was not a Christian but that the message of Jesus Christ is a message of peace and morality,and that if you feel the need to worship a God you should focus on worshipping a God who's message is not a message of death and destruction but rather a message of equality among all human's
Adam Lecckius, one Ayan hirsi is a douche bag cheap liar con artist! She lied, deceived, hoodwinked the West to immigrate to Europe! You have a criminal among westerners! That is not uncommon! Birds of same feather flock ... ??
Sanaulla she is exposing your wicked religion for what it is. There is nothing more believable than a converted Muslim and their first hand experience with the evils of Islam and Muslims.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is light to humanity.
Ayaan hirsi ❤❤🎉🎉👏🏻🙏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻 love from India
Wait... Did Ayaan Hirsi Ali just say that immigrant Muslims should leave their God behind when they come to America? Or did I misunderstand that?
she didn't mean to say that it should be required by law, only that it would be a smart thing to do for them. As it would be with all the religious people. No matter what religion
I support that statement wholeheartedly. Islam is a cancer and the more it grow, the more dangerous it becomes to the host.
That's what she said!
I'm pretty sure she means they should CHOOSE to do it. If they like their religion so much they should stay in those countries where that religion holds sway (although they might pause to wonder why they are compelled to flee those same countries in favor of one founded on an entirely different set of religious principles). She's not saying the government should force them to abandon their religion.
And she has a point. It seems more and more obvious that the ideology and doctrine of the Quran, are absolutely incompatible with first world, western societies.
What an amazing exchange of ideas. I thought it was powerful and persuading from both sides.
Fareed Zakaria's claim that there have been no attacks on US soil since 9/11 is absolutely false.
Ayaan is brave, and I admire her!
C.F.
Ayaan is my hero. Sigh.
she's a propaganda tool of the west trying to demonize islam- be careful what you believe in
Islam demonizes itself well enough, thank you very much.
jwclau1
A demon can not be demonized.
*****
Aboriginal Peoples were also demonized when westerners colonized them, could this be a trend you think?
ghostofdayinperson
you're demonizing yourself w/ your ignorance
These two ladies were respected and loved by people of all faith. They dare to say the truth and face danger with out FEAR!
One of the few intelligent conversations I’ve seen about this. For once Ayaan isn’t the only reasonable person speaking.
I love the pseudo-clickbait title. It turns out they're having a respectful discussion from two different viewpoints and consistently supporting each other in spite of passionately sharing different ideas.
Irshad Manji you the greatest , thank you very much for showing Muslims the reality , smart one will learn and re direct there headings and the ignorant will stay ignorant and will suffer.
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i cherish the wisdom of IYAAN. every word she calmly pronounces is full of good sense and wisdom.
I have a lot of qualms about Ms. Ali's characterizations of Christianity, having been brought up a Christian and spending some time, regrettably, in a fundamentalist church before my disgust grew too great. There is an active strain within the Christian faith, especially in some Protestant churches and especially in American ones, that is pretty much the equivalent of the radical Salafi Islamic factions. Like them, they are a minority; like them, they thrive on the type of de-centralized institutional structure that Ms. Ali discusses; like them, if given political power they would be every single bit as intolerant, violent, and oppressive.
Where they differ is that Europe and the US made a split between Church and State that puts limits on how much political power any Christian denomination can have. In the US especially, that line has been eroding for the past 40 years and is something we should be paying more attention to, perhaps instead of obsessing about the faults of Islam. Since she didn't grow up in a Christian-based culture she can't really be expected to be aware of the complications of those cultures. Otherwise, this was a really interesting and insightful interview with both women, and they both make some keen observations. Mr. Zakaria is a good moderator as well. Good show!
***** There are, in fact, various Muslim organisations who do all kinds of humanitarian work similar to this. You can't have a religion with one of its 5 pillars of faith being alms-giving and caring for the poor, widowed and orphaned, without having such things. Just look a little harder, and try not to assume such things don't exist for Muslims.
***** GIve them time, there'll be more. Anyway, quite a bit of the anti-homosexual laws in places like Uganda and other countries in Africa have more to do with Christian conservative groups from the US agitating there than it does with Muslims. The Christians are only a couple decades ahead in that regard, literally a couple decades, maybe 4 at most. I wouldn't start crowing about how backwards Muslims are and progressive Christians are just yet.
Its true that fundamental christians are dangerous
Such courageous women
Wow, we need more women like them to make a positive impact in the world.
Irshad you are the best, brave and very intellectual woman, so proud of you
Thank u Irshad Manji for granting Aryan's right to live. This exactly is the problem! You GRANT!
I admire Ms Ali's clarity of thought and the strength in her convictions.
I don't hear Zakaria speaking out against Radical Muslims..
He was Horney
The craziest part about Hirsi is she hates Islam so much but she has not changed her Muslim name yet. WHY?? Because that name brought her so much fame and recognition. If these two ladies weren't bashing Islam, would you see them on TV?? No
Why should she change her name? is Ibrahim Muslim. get your facts right idiot
Also she brags about circumcision in islam but never mentions the fact that Judaism preaches the same thing.
Atheists are usually against all religions. But she seems to be only attacking islam.
Hmm
MiximusRider
You are quite the rightest one over here, for calling him Idiot.
Sam Z
Are you muslim?
Who cares if she changes her name. She's incredibly brave, standing up to this BS and the bullies of the world. Islam can suck it.
Ayaan is brilliant!!
I respect both these women and admire their efforts toward making the world a better place. Focusing simply on the exchange in this video, in the final comment at the end of the vid, Ayaan really nailed it. This is not the 16th century--the time of Luther--at this point, we can also pursue a path of encouragement to those Muslims questioning the general value and validity of their ideology and its manifesto (i.e. Qur'an).
very good chat between three Muslims. they are a good example for those who directly link Islam to terrorism without thinking they human being like anyone else .father mother brother sister. son .family etc. I think both ayan and irshad are right. irshad wants to bring in an open mindedness which id now absent for some reasons. sorry for my last comment. I am not an Islam hater. plenty of my friends are Muslims.
"Welcome to pluralistic Islam". Well said Irshad !
Not much of a debate here, Irshad and Ms. Ali have far more in common than disagreement.
Jeremy Marshall Both of them are frauds.
Tell me a public figure that is true and genuine.
Two women I admire.
Don't lock humans in any book. You learn a little more about nature today; you need to update your books from yesterday.
14:52 "thank you". Subtle, but so good....
Ayaan is the only truthful one. Fareed defends the indefensible.
Islam is not a religion, it's a totalitarian ideology that uses its religious beginning to subvert modern societies in its quest to dominate the world.
I love what Ayaan is saying, and I don't like what Irshad is saying. Islam can't be reformed as its most sacred scripts has inborn violence and barbarism. So don't fall for that. And until the truth is faced the problem will not be solved.
I didnt realize irshad manji jihad a youtube channel (lol intended).
Love what this girl is doing. But in my opinion, you don't need a "God" to give you a moral compass or to tell you how to live. It's actually kinda scary that people need an ideology to tell them the difference between right and wrong.
I agree about not needing a god and I like both these women as they both face danger for speaking their minds so they deserve a lot of respect inho
will Can you explain to me where you define your right and wrong from? As in can you tell me why rape is objectively wrong?
Yusuf Drake The golden rule. Treat others as you like to be treated. It's basic human empathy. Why is rape wrong? Because, idk, I wouldn't want to be raped? If you can put yourself in someone else's shoes, knowing what is right vs wrong is usually pretty clear in most cases.
So if one society decides for themselves that rape is acceptable, or theft is acceptable.. who is anyone else to tell them that it's wrong? what if that society lives by another rule called the Dark rule where anything goes and the strong survive.. and they claim this is basic natural instinct? Who can tell them that raping, stealing or murdering is wrong..?
This is subjective morality and the objective morality that you're speaking of, where if 99% of the world were to start raping.. it doesnt change the fact that its wrong, this exists because it is how we were created. If you deny the creator, you deny objective morality..
My question simply is, Who decided what is "right" and who decided what is "wrong". If God does not exist. Are we not just animals then? and if we by chance do have a society that comes together to say murder is wrong.. then you might still have a minority that says murder is right and now you have an oppressed minority in that society..
i believe we were created with a fitra, and a fitra is basically the innate moral compass where you know or feel what is wrong from wrong.. of course this compass can be corrupted as u grow up.. but we are all born on it..
Many leading atheists have called on people to abandon objective morality all together because they know there is no ground to which they can hold that claim...
I don't consider the golden rule to be "objective" morality. Do one to others as you wish others to do to you, is in itself, subjective. So yes, another culture could consider rape, to use your example, to be culturally acceptable, it is by far in the minority, and is more often than not influenced by said culture and more often than not, radical aspects of some form of religion.
At the end of the day, I just treat people nicely because I feel it is right, and I want to be treated nicely myself. I don't need a book, or an invisible man in the sky judging me to tell me to do so.
Have these two women ever been seen or heard on the BBC?
Ayaan is awsum :)
Ayaan is the hungry black lady who came to America for better life and that her approach
keep the fight Aayaan hirsi Ali...we support you. Manji is still comfuse
Ayaan Hirsi Ali: beautiful, elegant, wit, eloquent, humble... what a great woman!
this was a great discussion! great views and great women!
Ayaan Hirsi Ali says the truth directly howsoever bitter it may be
Good discussions! both point of view are put nicely!
Ayaan is my hero!
sadly manji is wrong
She IS Reza Aslan. No, seriously, she had a short debate with him and, in the space of an hour, you got a sense of just how amenable to reason Manji is - compared to Aslan.
islam was never a religion of justice, Irshad is so wrong
irshad jihad is doing a little taqqyia here..
It's the only peaceful religion on earth.
Yayada
Why why why are you praying 5 times a day,toward a criminal pedophile prophet????????
You cal that justice???
It should be a crime to pray for that rapist.
Poor 6 year old Aisha.
+Luke Del Toroski she was fifteen.
I am waiting for the day when all of humanity realises that religions and other belief systems are just many paths that lead to same truth.
Allah will grant the first places in Paradise to Ayaan Hirsi Ali and saintly heroes like her.
This was a very civilized debate.
Ayaan keep up the good work in spreading love .....
Ayaan Hirsi Ali born in Marxist Somalia in the late 60's where Islam was completely banned from public life, she was born in a middle class secular family and attended a private Catholic school in Nairobi.
Does everyone who criticises Islam become an expert nowadays? Long gone are the days of Bernard Lewis who actually had knowledge of what he was criticising now we have people like Hirsi Ali who can't speak a word of Arabic and never lived in a Muslim majority country for more than 5 years being called an expert.
She is good though! She made her career out of this 👍
Two brave women
Irshad makes a better point ...
Change from within
I love Ayaan. I loved this debate... need more like it.
Wow, what a beautiful mind and dare I say it, soul, Ayaan Hirsi Ali has. Her charisma is going to waste as an atheist. She should have started a cult!
Keep doing what you're doing, both of you ladies.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali went beast mode.
The title of this video is debate, these two chicks agree with each other on every question. It should be called Zakaria debates Hirsi Ali
The days before Linda Sarsour. Sigh.
It's not a dialogue but a consipiracy when 3 like-minded people discuss an issue like this. Some main-stream Muslim should also have been there to have their say.
People need to first ask themselves if they need *any* religion. It's not difficult to simply accept life as it is with a beginning and an end that leave what's in between as the important part because its the *only* part we really know anything about! Plenty of secular people lead happy, productive, moral lives without entertaining silly notions about supernatural beings or forces! If people want to join a social club and discuss imaginative ideas about life, that's fine, but they shouldn't take nonsense seriously.
Its fashionable to say religion/ beleiving in life after death is for uneducated rubes. But consider that einstein, david bohm ( quantum physics) believed in god. Francis crick ( co discoverer of DNA) admitted it could not have evolved but must have come from outer space... or something. But go ahead and beleive you are just a meaningless assembly of cells...
MrAussieJules First, I don't care if it's 'fashionable'; I've considered religion to be ridiculous for nearly a half-century! Second, you offer rather weak examples: Einstein didn't believe in an afterlife, and was not a theist, he was more like a Deist; Francis Crick is an Atheist, like he says; Bhom was open to supernatural thinking, including believing that Uri Geller could bend spoons with his mind.
Religious people usually cite the meaninglessness of Atheism. Unless you're an Atheist, you won't likely understand how silly that idea is. Knowing that our lives are limited by death give *more* urgency to make our lives count with legacy for others.
Before you go spouting off about this subject, you should become *much* better informed. Otherwise, you're spreading bullshit!
Dominique Jenkins False belief? Oh, you mean something like believing the propositions for that which is wholly without evidence? Think about that.
Dominique Jenkins You're making a false equivalence. Judgement & opinion are abstractions that cannot bear evidence. There's a difference between deriving conclusions about reality & its workings with evidence versus imagining something supernatural as extant without evidence. The former can be verified by anyone, whereas the latter cannot be verified by anyone.
So you've 'taught' it. Did it ever occur to you that repeating or making statements that are counterfactual is fraudulent? Teaching is a profession that should impart critical-thinking skills as well as honest knowledge itself; in that, you fail. When you 'teach' anybody about ideas that cannot be confirmed or tested as statements, you might as well be lying to them because you cannot know anything about undetectable objects, forces or entities. Have you 'thought' about that?
I suggest that you study Enlightenment philosophers & modern epistemologists like David Hume, Adam Smith,Voltaire, Bertrand Russel, Karl Popper & Daniel Dennett. These people refined the definition of science as the methodical acquisition of knowledge through evidence and falsifiability. Without evidence, what you 'teach' is not knowledge.
Only progressive Muslims like Irshad Manji can reform Islam. Love her. It's not possible to remove islam, the only option is to reform it.
Hilarious. I think Fareed has been severely deceived I doubt that Ayaan has EVER been a 'devout' muslim in any capacity! LOOOOL
So what if she never was a devout muslim?
So, just because Quran says that Mother's feet is like Paradise and to give Charity, it is the right religion for you?? All the religion does that and most does it much better than Islam. What they don't have is Prophet who kills, murders, rapes, pillages, and destroys and moreover ENCOURAGE muslims to fight till death for their religion. Absolute nonsense!. Islam is a cult and Ayaan Hirsi Ali is one of the bravest human being I have encountered in my brave, to go against such a sick perverted religion and its zombie adherents. Did you know her friend was stabbed in the chest with a note telling Ayaan she is the next?? Tell me what is the penalty for apostasy in Islam? And also tell me what does it say about beating your wife? Who comes up with this medieval nonsense and still thinks it is some sort of divine message??
When I see this hatred from Muslims towards Ayaan, it tells me one thing... She is right! Keep up the hate, your filthy religion is showing it's shit again.
***** Bravo, well said!
You exhibit the blissfully ignorant certainty of the terminally stupid.
What's missing here is that everyone is forgetting that Islam stood up to scrutiny in the early years after the death of Muhammad (pbuh).
Ayaan you are right, God bless you.
I can see the peace and love of a Christian in Ayaan hirsi ali... may the lord Jesus Christ protect these women.
Hirsi is right.
"There hasn't been a second attack."
Ayaan is amazing!
two exceptionnal women. wow...
islam bashing:quick fame , easy money.
So I still love Islam.
Ayan Hirsi Ali doesn't seem quite right upstairs.
I think it's called forward thinking.
She may not be right minded according to believers, but she is very right minded according to unbelievers.
She's not. She's an extremist herself and wants to "crush" Islam and leave no tolerance for Muslims. Read on,
Reason: Why the initial aversion?
Hirsi Ali: Because I thought they would be religious, and I had become an atheist. And I don't consider myself a conservative. I consider myself a classical liberal. Anyway, the Brookings Institution did not react. Johns Hopkins said they didn't have enough money. The RAND Corporation wants its people to spend their days and nights in libraries figuring out statistics, and I'm very bad at statistics. But at AEI they were enthusiastic. It turns out that I have complete freedom of thought, freedom of expression. No one here imposed their religion on me, and I don't impose my atheism on them.
Reason: Do you see eye to eye with high-profile AEI hawks such as former Bush speechwriter David Frum and former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton?
Hirsi Ali: Most of the time I do. For instance, I completely and utterly agree with John Bolton that talking to Iran is a sheer waste of time."
"Hirsi Ali: Only if Islam is defeated. Because right now, the political side of Islam, the power-hungry expansionist side of Islam, has become superior to the Sufis and the Ismailis and the peace-seeking Muslims.
Reason: Don't you mean defeating radical Islam?
Hirsi Ali: No. Islam, period. Once it's defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful. It's very difficult to even talk about peace now. They're not interested in peace.
Reason: We have to crush the world's 1.5 billion Muslims under our boot? In concrete terms, what does that mean, "defeat Islam"?
Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there's no middle ground in wars. Islam can be defeated in many ways. For starters, you stop the spread of the ideology itself; at present, there are native Westerners converting to Islam, and they're the most fanatical sometimes. There is infiltration of Islam in the schools and universities of the West. You stop that. You stop the symbol burning and the effigy burning, and you look them in the eye and flex your muscles and you say, "This is a warning. We won't accept this anymore." There comes a moment when you crush your enemy.
Reason: Militarily?
Hirsi Ali: In all forms, and if you don't do that, then you have to live with the consequence of being crushed."
SuperCerebelum But even according to the imperatives as written in the Koran, Islam is in a war with everybody else. If sharia law were implemented, the Koran immutable, and Muhammad exemplary as written, then ISIS has it right.
The position on the Koran and Muhammad will need to change for the broader Islamic society. Implicitly has has changed among some. If it doesn't, it will continue to be at war, and Al Qaeda, or Al Nusra, or Isis, or the Taliban will periodically take all scripture literally and attack on the pretext of disbelief alone.
Islam cannot have a doctrine of belligerence, followed by actions of belligerence and not expect belligerence in response.
CHAS1422 No that is not true, islam is not about being at war with others but coexisting.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali, is a step a ahead of Irshad. Because, Ayaan Hirsi Ali knows the futility of any efforts to reform Islam, perhaps. Let Irshad work through it.....
Ayaan told the truth: Abandon Islam,find Jesus
***** a thousand years ago? Yes.Today Islam commits 70% of the world's crimes.It is evil gone wild
song4night I get you just fine. Your self absorbed and ignorant hatred is repulsive. Moslem is not a race, it is persons who believe in Islam, if you didn't know that, your ignorance of the subject is abominable. Do you know that Muslims believe in Jesus, the Virgin Birth, the Miracles? Obviously not. You are caught in your own narrow minded and very limited view of what Jesus taught. Hirsi Ali did not support what you say, not at all, quite the opposite but you are so self involved, you believe it? Read your own gospels and then branch out.
By my silence you should take it that your incapacity for intelligent discussion is unworthy of debate. You have no idea at all what you are talking about, no knowledge of Muslims or this subject. Don't be arrogant - that is my message to YOU. You will have a life time of silence and from that the only thing you can "understand" is contempt for your mind. Thanks for being stupid.
***** Don't be shy to speak brother.Which country are you in?
Shy says song4night not using their real name and not saying anything worth reading. If you think someone is right, give something like a reasoned explanation, demonstrating knowledge of the subject - you can't.
I appreciate that Ms Manji wants to bring about reform to her religion, and wish her every bit of success on that road. I do worry that it such reforms may not be possible..
Lol you look like a serial killer
Stacy Brain
Uh huh?!
You sound and look like a dumb ass
That's nice... Now you're blocked. Thanks for playing, but don't try again.
+Atheist Lehman you mad? disses a entire religion, someone disses him he starts crying lmfao
Ayaan Hirsi needs just to change religion and become Christian if she doesn't like Islam. Obviously she never read the Quran and has no idea about Islam. I understand she is making more and more money by more and more criticizing Islam so she will be more and more invited by media and considered as a star. In the western media more you are islamophobe more you will be listened to and invited to TV show. Nowadays it is a good marketing strategy if you want to make money..
Peter Kouswa Better an Islamophobe than anthrophobe -being hateful of whole humanity that most Muslims do.
it's just your opinion. I don't blame you for your ignorance. I am wondering why then it's the fastest growing religion. Strange! isn't it?
reasons for growth
1.Muslim family 4-5 kids;others 2 or less
2.nobody can leave Islam,or they are dead
3.Muslim marries into some other religion,partner has to convert to Islam;never other way round
4.may be multiple wives?
5.mullah's fatwas against birth control
6.Taqiyaa;people,mostly females get fooled.
-so no strangeness in it
you confirm your ignorance. There are 20000 converts in USA every year, 75000 in UK etc.the strangest thing is that 75% of the converts are women. These are facts from western observatories not from Muslim sources.
cjs maan Again! Mullah is a shia notion. There r no Mullah in Islam. There is no high authority like a Vatican in Islam that what makes Islam naturally democratic. Anyway you have your own opinion and I have mine.
Ayan is an oasis of intellect in a desert of political correctness