Zappa needed a vacation once, or so he thought. He even booked a hotel room. He got bored out of his skull pretty fast and instead composed this piece. He was totally consumed by it for a couple of weeks. Best vacation he ever had, apparently.
I heard Terry Bozzio once talk about Nicolas Slonimski (not name dropping here) and his idea of balances in music performance. It goes a bit like this, if the rhythm is complex then the melody can be simple and vice versa. Zappa uses this balance too but also gets everything playing the same part like Indian classical music does. Fascinating.
14:20 Was a common technique that Frank used, to get a listeners attention back, usually in longer compositions ( "The Grand Wazoo" and "Big Swifty" both contain this) to blend in a change to the work with no other good way to transition into it. In a George Duke interview, he asked Frank why he would compose such beautiful pieces, then, seemingly "throw a wrench into them" Frank's reply was "it needed it".
Wonderful channel, just found you. I a big Zappa fan,saw over 30 concerts in NYC from 74-88,, every Halloween multiple shows,3 of 4 Christmas shows, stood 3rd row in front of Frank for the famous Ritz show,the Pier. I'm sure I'll be watching all your videos, you have a great collection on your oage.
Hi do you know which song was written first ? Between Frank Zappas Didja get any onya ? Song and Captain Beefhearts the blimp ?? Song theres a part of Frank Zappas didja get any onya that sounds like Captain Beefhearts Song the Blimp which song was written first ?? Didja get any onya ? Or the Blimp ?
Excellent analysis as usual. I've been listening to this work and it's corresponding album "Orchestral Favorites" since I was 18 back in 1979. After a few listens it became as memorable as a pop tune for me. This smaller ensemble version is more to my liking than then the larger L.S.O. version. Pedro's Dowry reminds me of a composition by serial composer Milton Babbit wrote called "All Set". I combined the two works here for shits and giggles. : ua-cam.com/video/ZqmBrXOx6jg/v-deo.html
Proving that a composition has a structural plan doesn't confirm that it is a good piece of music, it merely provides an academic with a means to keep their job. The best case scenario is that the audience perceives unifying aspects of the music subliminally and enjoys their development (or otherwise) while barely noticing. The worst case is that the composer ran out of ideas and hoped that re-using material would give musical necrophiliacs something to hump after their death.
To write therein that the identification of a compositional structural plan doesn’t confirm if the piece of music is good, merely provides a person with a means to express their opinion. The worst case scenario is when a person knows nothing about a composer but uses some generic philosophy about the virtues of perceiving musical unification subliminally without noticing. I find your language amusing and contradictory, you seem to be disparaging of academics yet your writing style leans towards academia, someone is definitely “humping”.
Congratulations on the chanel, all the videos have been very informative! Do you know where I can access the score you used for analysis of the piece? Thanks a lot!
@The1betal - Frank's music is disappearing from the collective consciousness and has been for decades. Zappa's fan base is dying off and young people don't care about his music. The same thing is happening with all the rock era music people think will last forever. Frank said many times that his music wasn't made for future generations and to "get it while it's hot."
@@Frunobulax74 Fair enough...... Beethoven, Mozart and the like's original fan base died off soon after them, but many of us today are their new fan base, and so it will be with FZ, because he's an eternal legend in their league. Be well
@@Frunobulax74 I only listen to uploads from people who compile his guitar solos. I guess that's really what I meant. Because MANY many of his solos are complimented so well by the band, that they truly are treasures, and I think they will endure the ages. I do agree though, that his releases containing lyrics won't be eternal. One can only listen to words for a short while before it gets old. And that's similar with the artists mention before, their stuff is instrumental, and therefor is ageless.
@@The1belal - I agree with your points. Frank's guitar solos were instant compositions and amazing. Frank said lyrics were put in his songs because people like to hear words/singing. His lyrics were topical and weren't intended for future generations. I hope Frank's serious pieces last for hundreds of years.
It took me many hours of repeated listening to Zappa’s orchestral pieces to become familiar with them. Gregory Peccary was a good starting point as it’s very accessible. When I got so used to the music and could expect the musical changes that happen, it stopped being strange and became wonderful. Push yourself, it’s worth it.
What a song. 2 favourite versions so far: London symphony 1st vinyl first side and 1975 live at the Royce Hall from the 40yr anniversary Orkestral Favourites cd. Could be somewhere within the 1988 tour frank did a Pedro's Dowry version. If so that would be be able to top those two versions. If anyone knows of better versions would love to hear.
On that note, I would like to ask the question: " could had zappa's 88 band had been able to perform a great version of Pedro's Dowry?". Is it easy to presume considering that same band performed Bolero? How about we let the expert answer this one ....😊
I just Googled isomelism and the results were amazing. The top results were filled with Zappa, but also Stravinsky and many others. BTW, Inca Roads has been my favorite song for many years.
chanan I had seen your oleo unison video ages back when I heard Shawn Lane talk about it being a time signature nightmare and now to discover that you are covering concepts of zappa's work on yt is truly a treat. iirc I read somewhere that you wrote a PhD paper on zappa's work. if possible I request you to please talk about the reharmonisation ideas of Jacob Collier. thanks man.
I never really followed his work when he was alive, but Frank Zappa was a true genius in music composition, math and a wide range of other things…have you ever seen his score sheets, written for each of his players. Very little was left to improvise. Many very accomplished musicians would look forward to trying to play Franks charts….!
Zappa needed a vacation once, or so he thought.
He even booked a hotel room.
He got bored out of his skull pretty fast and instead composed this piece.
He was totally consumed by it for a couple of weeks.
Best vacation he ever had, apparently.
See. He was right. He needed a vacation.
This is a great story, do you have a source I could read the whole account of ?
@@VanMan83 according to The Real Frank Zappa book, The Great Outdoors was from the car to the airport.
I heard Terry Bozzio once talk about Nicolas Slonimski (not name dropping here) and his idea of balances in music performance. It goes a bit like this, if the rhythm is complex then the melody can be simple and vice versa. Zappa uses this balance too but also gets everything playing the same part like Indian classical music does. Fascinating.
name dropper!
14:20 Was a common technique that Frank used, to get a listeners attention back, usually in longer compositions ( "The Grand Wazoo" and "Big Swifty" both contain this) to blend in a change to the work with no other good way to transition into it. In a George Duke interview, he asked Frank why he would compose such beautiful pieces, then, seemingly "throw a wrench into them" Frank's reply was "it needed it".
Absolutely amazing analysis and insight. I'm utterly impressed!
Thanks for your thoughtful analysis. Encore!
Again a well-crafted analysis of this difficult composition. Thx 🙏
Wonderful channel, just found you. I a big Zappa fan,saw over 30 concerts in NYC from 74-88,, every Halloween multiple shows,3 of 4 Christmas shows, stood 3rd row in front of Frank for the famous Ritz show,the Pier. I'm sure I'll be watching all your videos, you have a great collection on your oage.
It is difficult without subtitles and not great music knowledge.....but a fantastic work thank you !!!
Quite a theatrical piece of music.
Hi do you know which song was written first ? Between Frank Zappas Didja get any onya ? Song and Captain Beefhearts the blimp ?? Song theres a part of Frank Zappas didja get any onya that sounds like Captain Beefhearts Song the Blimp which song was written first ?? Didja get any onya ? Or the Blimp ?
Excellent analysis as usual. I've been listening to this work and it's corresponding album "Orchestral Favorites" since I was 18 back in 1979. After a few listens it became as memorable as a pop tune for me. This smaller ensemble version is more to my liking than then the larger L.S.O. version. Pedro's Dowry reminds me of a composition by serial composer Milton Babbit wrote called "All Set". I combined the two works here for shits and giggles. : ua-cam.com/video/ZqmBrXOx6jg/v-deo.html
Proving that a composition has a structural plan doesn't confirm that it is a good piece of music, it merely provides an academic with a means to keep their job. The best case scenario is that the audience perceives unifying aspects of the music subliminally and enjoys their development (or otherwise) while barely noticing. The worst case is that the composer ran out of ideas and hoped that re-using material would give musical necrophiliacs something to hump after their death.
To write therein that the identification of a compositional structural plan doesn’t confirm if the piece of music is good, merely provides a person with a means to express their opinion. The worst case scenario is when a person knows nothing about a composer but uses some generic philosophy about the virtues of perceiving musical unification subliminally without noticing. I find your language amusing and contradictory, you seem to be disparaging of academics yet your writing style leans towards academia, someone is definitely “humping”.
Haha
Neither, and both.
Are you planning to do any analysis of material from Civilization Phase III? That would be fascinating, I bet.
Thank you for the Zappa content. Can't get enough
My new favourite rabbit hole
6:30 surely that melody is from Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time? Or does it just sound like he's using Messiaen's scale?
Alexander Calder lol. Nice ref. Nearly tool my eye out on a Calder piece in a private gallery in the Hancock building. They were not amused
Congratulations on the chanel, all the videos have been very informative! Do you know where I can access the score you used for analysis of the piece? Thanks a lot!
Frank's work will be around for thousands of years (if we're still here). Thank you for the dissection. I'm sharing your great uploads.
@The1betal - Frank's music is disappearing from the collective consciousness and has been for decades. Zappa's fan base is dying off and young people don't care about his music. The same thing is happening with all the rock era music people think will last forever. Frank said many times that his music wasn't made for future generations and to "get it while it's hot."
@@Frunobulax74 Fair enough...... Beethoven, Mozart and the like's original fan base died off soon after them, but many of us today are their new fan base, and so it will be with FZ, because he's an eternal legend in their league.
Be well
@@The1belal - We will never know
@@Frunobulax74 I only listen to uploads from people who compile his guitar solos. I guess that's really what I meant. Because MANY many of his solos are complimented so well by the band, that they truly are treasures, and I think they will endure the ages.
I do agree though, that his releases containing lyrics won't be eternal. One can only listen to words for a short while before it gets old.
And that's similar with the artists mention before, their stuff is instrumental, and therefor is ageless.
@@The1belal - I agree with your points. Frank's guitar solos were instant compositions and amazing. Frank said lyrics were put in his songs because people like to hear words/singing. His lyrics were topical and weren't intended for future generations. I hope Frank's serious pieces last for hundreds of years.
One of my favourite orchestral pieces 🙂
AmaZing 🤩
Thanks so much for this amazing analysis!
Great use of your thesis!
this is too complex for my simple mind...
It took me many hours of repeated listening to Zappa’s orchestral pieces to become familiar with them. Gregory Peccary was a good starting point as it’s very accessible. When I got so used to the music and could expect the musical changes that happen, it stopped being strange and became wonderful. Push yourself, it’s worth it.
There's usually some belly laughs to be had in Frank's music and we're definitely there with bars 24 to 32.
For some reason bar 29 reminds me of American Drinks and Goes Home on the Ponty recording of King Kong.
superbe analsys, wel planned and well explained, good job.
Beautiful Chanan ! Big thank you !
Yes
What a song. 2 favourite versions so far: London symphony 1st vinyl first side and 1975 live at the Royce Hall from the 40yr anniversary Orkestral Favourites cd.
Could be somewhere within the 1988 tour frank did a Pedro's Dowry version. If so that would be be able to top those two versions.
If anyone knows of better versions would love to hear.
On that note, I would like to ask the question: " could had zappa's 88 band had been able to perform a great version of Pedro's Dowry?". Is it easy to presume considering that same band performed Bolero? How about we let the expert answer this one ....😊
One can find isomelism in Frank's rock songs as well. "Inca Roads" being a prime example.
I just Googled isomelism and the results were amazing. The top results were filled with Zappa, but also Stravinsky and many others. BTW, Inca Roads has been my favorite song for many years.
chanan I had seen your oleo unison video ages back when I heard Shawn Lane talk about it being a time signature nightmare and now to discover that you are covering concepts of zappa's work on yt is truly a treat. iirc I read somewhere that you wrote a PhD paper on zappa's work. if possible I request you to please talk about the reharmonisation ideas of Jacob Collier. thanks man.
You might be the most articulate person in the world
I never really followed his work when he was alive, but Frank Zappa was a true genius in music composition, math and a wide range of other things…have you ever seen his score sheets, written for each of his players. Very little was left to improvise. Many very accomplished musicians would look forward to trying to play Franks charts….!