What if Tom Bombadil is given the Ring? | Tolkien Explained
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- Опубліковано 23 вер 2024
- At the Council of Elrond, many ideas are thrown out for what to do with the One Ring. Today, we look at Erestor's recommendation to give the ring to Tom Bombadil. We see why he believes it to be a good idea and why, ultimately, it is not!
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Rivendell - Jerry Vanderstelt
The One Ring - John Howe
The Lord of Rivendell - Peter Xavier Price
Tom Bombadil with Ring - Elrodimus Flash
Tom Bombadil - John Howe
The Council of Elrond - Alan Lee
Tom Bombadil - Anke Eissmann
Tom Bombadil - John Howe
Elrond - Alystraea
Tom Bombadil - borja pindado
tom bombadil - dracarysdrekkar
erestor - mellorianj
Leaving the Barrow - Anke Eißmann
tom bombadil - Steve Airola
Gandalf - Elrodimus Flash
Tom Bombadil - Olanda Fong-Surdenas
Tom Bombadil - Tolman Cotton
Ring a dong dillo - Matt Stewart
Old Tom - Ralph Damiani
Gandalf, A Light in the Dark - Matthew Stewart
Tom Bombadil - Elrodimus Flash
Gandalf - Catherine Karina Chmiel
tom bombadi - dracarysdrekkar
Gandalf - Elrodimus Flash
tom and goldberry - Ralph Damiani
In the house of Tom Bombadil - Anke Eissmann
Battle of Pelennor Fields - Magdalena Katanska
Grond - Ralph Damiani
The One Ring - John Howe
Tom Bombadil and Goldberry - Abe Papakhian
Tom Bombadil - Tom Romain
Old Man Willow - J.R.R. Tolkien
Glorfindel - Ralph Damiani
Glorfindel of Gondoli - Marya Filatova
Glorfindel - Marya Filatova
Glorfindel - Alystraea
Tom Bombadil - dracarysdrekkar
Saruman the White - Daniel Govar
Finrod - Jenny Dolfen
sauron army - weta
Tom Bombadil PJ - John Howe
Entering Mirkwood - Ted Nasmith
galadriel - Ann Shetelia
The Cleansing of Dol Guldur - Ralph Damiani
Gandalf - Jenny Dolfen
#tombombadil #lordoftherings #tolkien
Old Tom would probably toss it but only after he made up a song about it. Tom has a ring of gold and power ,I tossed it by a hill when I picked a flower.
What? The thing I picked's not flower, it is the One Ring, I threw it on the groooound!
Found Tom's account!
So he’s an idiot?
I love the fact that, unlike other videos in this series, this hypothetical question is entriely dealt with in-universe by the characters, making this video more reportage than theory...
Unreliable narrator. These characters have been wrong before and have "knowledge" that we are not shown or told how they obtained it. "Dealt with" is a strong word I feel for a couple of conjecture statements.
I mean, the title does say Tolkien explained, not Tolkien theory.
It’s for people like myself who haven’t read or finished the books but have seen the movies. I’m 300 pages through the first book atm.
Frodo: Why can't we call Tom Bombadil to help us defeat Sauron?
Elrond: Tom Bombadil is indeed very strong, but he is not interested.
Frodo: But if we tell him that Sauron called Goldberry a whore?
*Roll Credits*
Tom: "A whore, you say? Well, I suppose he's not wrong. She was a bit wild I your youth."
Tom would have a laugh
LMFAO!
Neither Tom nor Goldberry would accept Sauron's gift and return it.
😉
*LOL!* You had me spit out my coffee!!
Hilarious!! 100%!!
Bombadil is an enigma. One of my favorite theories is that hes a force of nature, kinda like how ungoliant represents darkness, tom represents music
@dimitrilitovsk2372
I had the theory that he was Father Time. He's oldest and fatherless, he had to exist before everything could come into being. The Ring can't effect him, nothing can stop the march of time itself. If he were Father Time that would also explain his love of music since music is all about timing. Just my personal perspective on Tom.
He is the Truth incarcerated. Simply that. He is very over thought.
"Force" of nature? His loud singing?😂
ya I think he is the incarnation (or the mind) of the World when it was sung into by song and music. like you said. I find it making the most sence.
@VoiceoftheRings no. Not world mind. Just Truth. Just Fact. He only has control of what can hear him, and nothing has power over him. But to him, the world is irrelevant.
Everytime I think of Tom Bombadil, I think of the scene in HP: Philosopher's Stone with the mirror of erised, where Dumbledore says to Harry 'The happiest man on earth would look into the mirror and see only himself exactly as he is'.
That's a brilliant connection.
Tom is definitely the happiest as he is the eldest
J.K.'s books did have plot holes and she wasn't by no means perfect, but her books are still great. Fk the accusations.
@@vario6492 Man, I though HP was so boring always. The first books are good and I like the first movies too, but it doesnt even come a tiny bit close to anything written by Tolkien
@@vario6492I mean, is it accusations if they say yes that’s who I am?
I think this video interprets Tom's downfall as being one of might, that Sauron's forces would overcome him through force. I interpret it very differently. I think the risk is that even if the ring is safe with Tom (assuming he doesn't throw it away of course), that doesn't stop Sauron. He would continue to conquer Middle Earth and likely succeed. And then when there's nothing left and nature is quite literally destroyed (forests burned, lakes drained etc), or the music no long flows to use the other interpretation of Tom (i.e. there's no free folk left and all is brought in line with Sauron's will), Tom will simply cease to be.
The ring was a powerful weapon for Sauron, but it was also an essential weapon for the good guys. Not to wield it's power, but as something physical they could destroy to end Sauron. To put it another way, if the ring were hidden forever more, Middle Earth would still fall, so thank goodness Sauron was linked to that pesky, vulnerable ring!
I feel the same about Tom. By the time Sauron would be able to invade Tom’s forest, Tom would simply no longer exist. There would be no battle or exchange of magic spells. I honestly don’t think Tom would kill another living creature, even orcs, goblins, and trolls.
Sauron would invade Bombadil's realm, end up waking up naked in a field, forgetting why he was there, and leaving.
That is funny.
Ayo💀
Sauron would simply wait until Tom Bombadill got bored, forgetful, or just happened to do something else, leaving the ring unguarded, and have someone pick it up. Tom would be a near all-powerful guardian, but he couldn't be bothered...
This is the most likely outcome.
Honestly, I think he simply would just come himself and ask him nicely, and Tom would just give it to him or something stupid like that.
Then Sauron would just leave.
_"Would Old Man Willow claim the ring and go on a Hobbit eating spree"_ was not on my NOTR bingo card.
I imagined the willow marching through Hobbiton towards the Green Dragon furiously swinging its branches. Poor hobbits would definitely think they've had too much ale.
He'd probably lose it💀
Seems to everyone's answer. :( I would like a new idea on it.
@OrhallaZander He'd lose the ring wearing it on his toe. Happy?
He'd probably forget about it💀
@@OrhallaZander Tom puts on the ring, the nazgul declair him their leader but flee in terror when he starts to sing, decide the ring is not worth it, then they change their ways and become good men again, one starts a bakery, the others go their separate ways and live similar mundane lives until they die of natural causes. Tom goes on with his life and forgets he's wearing the ring, Sauron, driven mad by toms singing orders the orcs to tear his tower down, thus ending the third age. 100 years later tom trades the ring for a slice of pie.
@@waldos.429 the story of the day
Tom (sees the ring): ooh a doughnut
He just eats it💀
He does come across as a flighty dope. I’m so glad they didn’t use him (much less those horrible songs) in the movie
mmmm, danger donut
@@dearthditch he wasnt that at all. He was just so powerful and loving he appears that way by choice. When they are at his home he wove his stories and appeared in different ways. To him everyone is a little childe not just in age but understanding.
If the bad guys don't learn about Tom having the Ring, here's what would most likely happen:
Gandalf: Bombadil, where is the ring I entrusted on you?
Ton: Oh, that old thing? I threw it in the river.
Gandalf: You WHAT!
Gandalf: "Sh*t. Here we go again"
Then, two hobbits discover it, and one kills the other for it...
This whole thread is wild.
im wondering if Tom put the ring down somewhere and his wife found it, could she be turned evil?
I threw it on the groooound!
I’ve always loved that line ‘if all else was conquered, bombadil too would fall last as he was first’
😂😂 wth
Tom did wear the ring for a brief moment when Frodo passed in his home
The ring did not grant him invisibility and seemed to have zero effect on his mental state
Tom was also able to see Frodo while he was using the ring
Given this brief scene is safe to assume that Tom is unaffected by the ring
This raise a very obvious question on the nature of Tom himself given that even maiars like Gandalf and Saruman are able to be subject to the ring power
That make Tom at the very least a valar in terms of power level
But we know each valar by name and he is not one of them
The most probable origin is the same of ungoliant
A spirit of arda herself created during the music or a spirit of the void trapoed and given form in arda during the music
Tom was able to a
see Frodo when he wore the ring. That speaks volumes. He is an enigma so much more powerful than people imagined but he didn’t care to use any of it
@@generoberts9151 and yet Tolkien wrote " that even he would fall to Sauron". He wouldnt write that if it wasnt true.
@@kokainkalle Not sure what “fail” pertains to in context. What is this in reference to in the literature?
@@kokainkalle not exactly
tolkien actually wrote about this point
by having gandalf speaking we know that
tom would be a terrible ring keeper becasue he would not understand its nature power and danger
to him it is simply a trinket
at best he will lose it by not paying attention to it
at worst the ring would in the end be taken by sauron after the dark lord vanquis the elf and the men of west as not even tom alone cannot stop the armies of sauron and all his servant
tolkien is stating that tom is not a suitable solution becasue of that
that is the in world explanation
in a very basic narrative terms tom is not a suitable solution becasue he is so damn powerful that it act as a deus ex machina
giving him the ring would instanlty solve the matter at hand and would nullify the need of the fellowship of the ring and even the story itself
tolkien is doing the very basic act of explaining to us the reader why giving the ring to this apparently all powerful individual that is not affected by the ring isn't a good idea a question that would inevitably pop up in the mind of the reader if the author did not adressed it as the simplest and most effective solution
yeah giving tom the ring would only post pone the problem but it would solve the issue for nearly all the non immoratl characthers in the books and end the story right there
not great. so tolkien is forced to make the all powerful tom a non solution with a convining explanation and go on
tom is an anomaly
it is not a recognized "power" in the mythos of arda
he is not recognized between the valar/ainur and he is much more powerful than any maiar we know of
not only his power makes no sense, his origin and nature is wrapped in mistery
he seem a man yet he awoke before both the men and the elves
one of his title is literally fatherless
also at a narrative standpoint he makes little sense being a joyfull and merry charachter tossed into the middle of nowhere during a scary scene where the hobbit risked their lives
his behaviour and description fit much better into a kid tale or even the hobbit story than in the lord of the ring tone and mood
not even the silmarillion explain tom in better terms
What if Tom is Ugoliant after she ate her own hunger and got all the chill.
Where would we be without TomDaBombadil19?
Just don't give him the ring... 😉
“The wise, the great and those who happened to be around…” you make it sound like they consulted EVERYONE even the janitor and the mailman for their opinion.
That was good👍😂
That idea comes dangerously close to the truth...
“It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If we take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale."
Said an old and wise firebender.
Janitors see a lot of crap, of course they should be consulted.
And don't get me started about mailman.
I mean, they invited some old ranger. Strider, wasn't it?
My god, the idea of Old Man Willow getting the ring is one of the funniest what if’s I’ve ever heard.
If you’re ever fighting for an April Fools idea, that’s a video right there.
On a more serious note, what about giving it to TreeBeard?
Defeating Sauron required the destruction of the One Ring, not hiding it. By the time of the War of the Ring, Sauron did not need to have the Ring to conquer the Free Peoples.
You know we love the “What If X Took The Ring?” series, Matt! And you know what I’m going to ask again already!
Please, please do a “What If Sam Took The One Ring?” video following an alternate path starting right after Sam takes the ring from Frodo’s “dead” body in the wake of their encounter with Shelob.
Only in this tragic story, Sam never realizes that Frodo is still alive and resolves to finish the quest to destroy the One Ring by himself. I would be so thrilled to hear your creative take on this idea knowing Sam is arguably the most noble and incorruptible creature in all of Middle Earth save Tom.
Pretty please? 😁💕😁
I'm afraid there's not enough story left to explore at that point. And Sam's path would be the same either way: He can't go back (not that he would, anyway), so he'll try to make it to Mount Doom, facing the same problems.
But I love the general idea! My variation would be "What if Frodo didn't make it to Rivendell, so Sam stepped up as the new Ringbearer?"
YES PLS WE NEED THIS
"Oh Tom Bombadil
He's a jolly fellow!"
I think his boots were Yellow.
"Bright blue his jacket is
And his boots are yellow!"
Hey dol merry dol, derry dolly dillo!
The ring holds no power over Tom because its power is temptation. Everybody wants SOMETHING. Gandalf wants to defeat Sauron, Galadriel wants to preserve the elves, Boromir wants to protect his home. But Tom Bombadil has everything he wants already, so the ring can't offer him any temptations. His utter contentment makes the ring, and all of its power, worthless to him.
My intepretation of Tom and Goldberry is that they represent the spirit of humour and love that rises above dark times. It would make no sense for Tom to take the Ring because he exists apart from Men, the Ainur, evil and all the trouble of Middle Earth. It's not a question of power but purpose, and that purpose was vested in the Fellowship and Frodo in particular.
Plus, there’s no need for 2 1/2 more books.
Goldberry and the smart trees are the Entwives.
I don't think it's not within his power to resist forever. For one he is only found if he wishes to be found. The Hobbits found him in the Old Forest but his place was not always there and moves around. From things mentioned by Tolkien in his many letters and back story material Tom was the embodiment of the Song. Sauron and all his might could never hope to destroy Tom no matter what ring he had. I doubt Sauron would even be able to sense the ring if someone was wearing it in wherever Tom's domain currently was. Tom was beyond his power or that of his armies. However being the physical embodiment of the Song Tom would know what needed to happen to the Ring and so would have refused to take it or at the least would have taken it but also arranged for the Ring to be put back on its path for humanity to decide if they would destroy it or be subjugated by Sauron. It was always humanity's choice and would know that only humanity could make it in order for the Song to fulfill its purpose.
I've always seen Tom as being a representation of Tolkien himself. The fact that he lives near the Shire, which was based off of tolkien's hometown and the fact that he doesn't have a true presence in the world - he just shows up randomly when he's needed. He isn't actually a part of Middle Earth, he just has a connection to it.
Plus Tolkien isolated himself from the modern world.
I also like the theory that Tom is a disguise for Illuvitar just as Gandalf is a disguise for Olorin.
@@HarlequinWriterit can’t be. Eru as the creator of all things would know what the ring is and how detrimental it is to Arda (middle earth). If Eru really was Tom Bombadil, then it would be contradictory for him to be so nonchalant with the ring if given as described, because he would understand its severity. There’s also the fact that he is already present in the quest of the ring shown when he returns Gandalf to the fellowship.
@@johnpaul5447 true enough. Clarification, I just like that theory, I don't believe that it's true. Tolkein himself basically just equates the Tom Bombadil is just... him.😆
On another note, I was under the impression that it was Manwe or Nienna who had sent Gandalf back. That's interesting! To say nothing of how much sense it makes.
Why does Tom's picture look like Jack Black
And Goldberry looks like Kyle Gass.
I love when people ask this especially because this shows that they try to seem like they've read the book and/or have extra knowledge, since Tom is not in the movie, but didn't actually read it since they straight up ask and answer this question during the Council of Elrond.
A lot of people seem to get this wrong about LotR: Sauron, at no point, _needs_ the Ring to win the war. He was crushinating the free peoples right up to the very end.
Sauron poured his power, malice, and will to dominate Middle-earth into the Ring, and he is thus weakened without it, and strengthened with it. I do not know if he could win the war without it, but there is much I do not know.
@@GamerElf12 But we don't have to speculate. From the very first meeting in Lothlorien (where they form the Fellowship), all of the leaders agree that it's only a matter of time before Sauron takes over the whole land if unchecked. And Sauron goes on to do exactly that: he may have lost the first battle of Minas Tirith, but Aragorn knows he'll come back in a month or so and the town's out of tricks to pull and undead armies to summon. That's why he goes with the last vestiges of his armies to the Black Gate, as nothing more than a distraction where he's outnumbered something like 50 to 1. Whether Sauron is powerful or not is immaterial: his armies are doing a pretty bang-up job with him just being an eye.
@@danielgehring7437 You are correct, but he wasnt a physical large flaming eye. With the exception of Peter Jackson's movies, of course. Yes I was incorrect, it is more about strategy and numbers than physical power in war.
Yes but was he burninating them?
Aragorn should have had the undead army kill all of mordor. They agreed to fight, he never said just for 1 battle.@@danielgehring7437
I see Tom Bombadil as the incorruptible essence of childhood innocence. After all, the story of Bombadil began as one for Tolkien's children, and it was a bit jackhammered into the lore of LotR. So, whether Tolkien consciously saw it that way or not, he was trying to reconcile the unreconcilable, the innocence of childhood into a world of adult darkness.
I see him as Truth incarcerated, and simply that.
I've always wondered, if the smiths of Rivendell had encased the ring in Mithrill, would that possibly have blocked the ring's influence or maybe hidden it's presence?
That kind of mithril forging was a dwarf thing.
@@Roboticus_Prime_RC I'm sure the Elven smiths would have been more than capable of doing the job but I'm thinking that the ring would probably not have accepted it and just shed the Mithril off afterwards.
What would happen if Tom Bombadil would appear at San Diego Comic-Con?
thanks for the video, Matt!
I don't think he'd come. After all, Goldberry is waiting.
Maybe Rory Kinnear will be at Comic-Con.
I got an idea. Time to grow my beard and eat a bunch of edibles
People would congratulate him for his great Tom Bombadil cosplay.
MATT as Tom Bombadil at Comic-CON!
I could actually see giving Tom the ring as being a way that Saruman obtains it - but not through his armies, but by simply heading to Tom, and asking. Even without trying to use his "voice" on Tom, Saruman could likely convince Tom that the ring would be safer with the Wizard, and then of course, bad stuff happens.
I doubt it. And I suspect it was him who told Gandalf the only possible way to destroy the Ring.
Gandalf is not a simply wizard; he is a Maia. Tom can only be a reincarnated Valar, existing since the beginning of time, power in his singing, stayed in Arda, not affected by the power of the Ring...
Gandalf must have seek his advice when he was searching the Ring and hunting Gollum. He returns to visit him after the Ring is destroyed, to report to him?
@@rubenlopezusa Saruman is on the same level as Gandalf, and Tom... isn't a Valar. He's a complete break in the worldbreaking: a cameo from a story that predates that world and shares no continuity with it.
The closest equivalent, in-world, would be something like Ungoliant: Something that wasn't created, but came from beyond.
@@Tzizenorec Tolkien didn't leave much written but he left us clues maybe to finish his story on another moment. What other beings sign as expression of power and exist before the creation of Arda? What beings cannot be corrupted in any way by the Ring created by a Maia? What beings are married or live with a life partner? And the list is long. You cannot provide a valid reasoable reason to argue with my comment.
@@rubenlopezusa I can't even figure out what your argument is. Ungoliant and Tom Bombadil are both things that predate the creation of Arda without being included among the Valar. It doesn't make sense to me to stuff them into the Valar despite not behaving like them at all, just because you don't want any other pre-Arda things to exist besides the Valar.
@@Tzizenorec it's not an argument, it's an opinion. You are the one arguing, saying something Tolkien never wrote. He tells us Eru creates Arda, Melkor is sent before anyone else, and then the other Valar.
It's not a matter of what I want or not; no living creature existed or arrived before the Valar. Period.
Ungoliant seems to appear from Darkness, and after the Valar, so she might be a Maia. However, Tom is different. He clearly says he was there before the Dark Lord, which must be no other than Sauron because he cannot have arrived before Melkor. On the other hand, like the Ainur, he uses music as a source of power; he is described with a beard, like Orome, and like him, he has a close relationship with Elves and nature. He had a big pony, which could be Naha's form. Orome was known to be a raider and a huntsman and Tom cannot be human because humans are created after the dark Lord arrived.
We know immortal entities adopt different names and forms when they stay in The Middle Earth. Maia Olorin is Gandalf, Tom could be Orome, and Goldberry could be Vana. And it's not unrealistic; they all loved the Middle Earth and its creatures.
Read The Silmarillion; it's all in there.
"Those who happened to be around"
* Shows picture of Legolas *
#SweetBurnBro
Legolas is a baby compared to Tom 😂
And one other thing about Saruman - was he to learn about the Bombadil having the Ring, he would have pretty much no troubles getting to the old forest, and I'm sure the old mage would easily convince Bombadil to give him the Ring
I believe Tom Bombadil was meant to not only be neutral as the Grey Jedi are depicted in Star Wars but to actually be an example of the query of use of the third eye. Intellect and being expanded from the reach of mortal affairs and in turn granted a place all his own. If Sauron was so inclined to focus solely on Tom for understanding there was a different power at work perhaps his efforts would change and mastery of such could instead lead him to a different calling.
*Ah yes, now we're asking the REAL questions*
I know, right?
People don’t seem to understand why Frodo was the ONLY one that could’ve brought the ring to Mordor.
Frodo idolized Bilbo and wanted nothing more in life than his own adventure. He didn’t want power, he didn’t want glory. He wanted an adventure and the entire trip was exactly what he wanted. The ring had nothing to offer him that he didn’t already have.
But ultimately it did corrupt his heart at Mount Doom when he refused to throw it in the fire like Isildur before him. It was Gollum biting off his finger and then falling into the fire which destroyed the ring, but it was Frodo’s compassion and pity allowing Gollum to live when he was tempted to kill him that ultimately saved Middle Earth
@@sargonsblackgrandfather2072 Yes it did, but that’s because it was, in his mind, the end of his journey. He was about to accomplish what he set out to do. That’s why it was also important for Sam to be there to hold him accountable, help him commit to it and keep his spirits up. It’s suggested that going home wasn’t on Frodo’s mind when he questioned Sam why he was saving the bread. Sam said to him, “ for the journey home, Mr. Frodo.” And Frodo’s eyes light up and he smiled for the first time in a long time. It suggests that he realized the journey wasn’t over and the ring lost grasp of him for a brief moment.
Gollum biting it off his finger was an unplanned, but helpful, scenario. I like your insight on how important Frodos compassion was and how that played an important role in destroying the ring through showing Gollum compassion!
I can't really imagine Tom being up for mass warfare with orcs anyway. He would probably just leave as soon as he became unable to keep his domain as he likes, not fight against all odds for a greater world he has no interest in. He might just leave for another continent or area, maybe he would leave Arda, maybe taking the ring, maybe not. The ainur who entered Arda became bound to it, not sure if Tom plays by the same rules though.
Or he might join Treebeard in FangornbForest
@@Enerdhil I had the same thought, it would have had the same end though, just at Fanghorn instead of his own woods. If Sauron really wanted all of Middle Earth he would have just had to eventually leave it.
@@railroadbluesy2169
True, in fact, if Tom and Goldberry could escape to Fangorn Forest, they would probably find out that Sauron burnt that to the ground first.
With all his ability he’s unwilling to help or at least ringerbear? (the ring has no influence on him) Im not sure I would be cool with tom after he that 🙎♂️
@@061romell
Tom Bombadil is a pacifist. He will never purposely engage in any kind of conflict. He has power, as we see in his encounters with Old Man Willow and the Barrow Wights. The One Ring has no effect on him whatsoever, so he should be the perfect person to carry the Ring to Mount Doom. However, his pacifism would never allow him to get involved. Plus, he would never leave Goldberry. He has responsibilities to her that he must meet.
Easy fix. All the free peoples of Middle-Earth convince Tom to take the Ring, but if he insists on throwing it away, to throw it away into Orodruin. Lol. 😂
Always excellent.
FWIW - I suspect if Saruman learned Tom had the ring, I think he would just go ask Tom for it knowing how persuasive he was and how little Tom cared for such things... his betrayal was not well known, he was very 'persuasive', and Tom may well not work out Saruman's evil intent for himself - after all, in spite of his suspicions even Gandalf was literally caught unawares.
Would Saruman find out? Probably before Sauron, if the council managed to get the ring to Tom in secret. Saruman had spies and friends everywhere, a good many either unaware of his 'fall' or sympathetic to him personally.
All i see is a perfect role for Jack Black
So it came to pass that 3 days after the 'Council of Elrond' Gandalf accompanied by Frodo (& the ring) met Radagast the Brown and Gwaihir the Great Eagle in Rivendell. It was an uneventful trip for Gandalf & Frodo on the back of Gwaihir to Mount Doom. Upon arrival, Frodo tossed the ring into the depths of the mountain (under Gandalf's watchful eye) and they once again jumped on Gwaihir for their return journey to Rivendell and everlasting peace on Middle-Earth.
Gwaihir is the size of a Roc, and the eagles are PROUD. There would be a civil war and betrayal for the ring before they got to Mount Doom.
There was also an army of orcs and the Nazgul around the mountain.
The best they could hope for is the cracks of doom being open to the sky and a traitor getting the One Ring, but losing flight and falling into the fires of mount doom.
It's also a long journey, so it would be have multiple night grounded, which would mean ambushes.
Oh, and Rohan/Gondor would probably fall too, since the fellowship wouldn't pass through there.
Question: Any signs Sauron or even Morgoth actually had any affection for the orcs or liked them? Were they perhaps disgusted, but just using them as pawns? Evidence either way? Morgoth wanted the power to create life, but could only corrupt; was he happy with the result of his work? Sauron loved order, but orcs are wild, dirty, and hard to control. Maybe the plan was to win, and then eventually kill the pawns?
Morgoth corrupted elves into orcs in the first place, my guess would be that he would be hateful of them yet. I do not know of any evidence to indicate that they had any affection or appreciation for them.
Next video : what if Goldberry gets the ring.
Yes. That is a great question. That is the what-if question on which Matt should have made his video.
I don't have to watch this again you have said countless times what will happen ❤❤😂😂😂
Found your channel 2 year’s ago, and your videos have helped me understand when i reed the silmarillion 👍🏻 you have made me love the world of lord of the rings even more then i did before 🙂
What if Radagast was Bombadil's roommate?
Or butler
Three's a Company!!
Awesome Video Nerd of the Rings! Loved it. Glad you covered this ! :D
why did you remake this ? or its that you have mention that specific thing about Tom not caring etc ..in multiple video and thought its a remake ? oh its bc Tom is hot topic now ? that why we see him everywhere
I think you are right
he would probably just write a song about it.
(Chorus)
Hey, ho! The One Ring's song,
It whispers in the dark, but it don't last long.
For Tom's the master, in his land so fair,
No Ring can bind him, no Ring can snare.
He’d probably just look at it😂😂😂
I'd love to see a new trilogy that would be created to explain Tom's character and the reasoning for his existence.
Tom sounds like a borderline fourth wall break in the sense that he reflects the absurdity of human concerns back at the reader, by simply not giving them power.
Alternate Universe: After rescuing the Hobbits from the undead, they confide their story to him about the ring, and ask him to help.
Goldberry says he should do it, and be home in time for dinner.
Tom asks a giant eagle for a ride to Mount Doom.
Tom drops it in from a bombing altitude, and makes it home for dinner.
The eagle brings the Hobbits back to the Shire after dessert.
Tom composes an 8,000 stanza melody about the flight.
The next day he forgets all about it.
When the witch king was slain was he really destroyed or was simply his physical form was destroyed and his sole returned to the dark tower so it could heal and regain its form?
His ring was a subsidiary of the power of the One. If his spirit survived Merry and Eowyn, it certainly would not have survived the unmaking of the One.
Why not give it to Tom DaBombadil then?
Divine adhd is the worst kind of adhd...
The depiction of Tom around 1:26 made me think of Jack Black. This led me to imaginie Tom's songs interpreted by Tenacious D. Rock!
Came here for this comment.
And the one at 6:30 is Peter Jackson !
saw this after i posted the same thing😁
@@passingtime7203 lol, exactly what I think Tom Bombadil would be like. xD Posted it before I read the comments as well. ;)
We need a what if old man Willow gets the ring now lol, "one root to rule them all, one root to find them, one root to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them" 🌳+💍
Absolutely love your “What if?” videos!!!
The are are two reasons Bombadil is in LOTR:
1. Because Tolkien was releasing a book of his earlier short stories and poems shortly after LOTR titled "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" and he wanted a tie-in as a marketing move.
The book bombed so badly that a lot of Tolkien fans never heard of it.
2. Bombadil is actually Tolkein's first character
It's the name of a wooden doll he and his children played with as he made up stories with them...stories that eventually became "Middle Earth".
Tolkein subtly references this a couple of times in Fellowship of the Ring.
Benn following the hobbit since 1978. Tolkien went through a traumatic time in ww1, like most did. All the characters in his books have purpose, except 1. Tom bombadil does not. My gut feeling is that tom is like god in the lord of the rings. He has the power to change it all. But leaves those tasks for his subjects. Just a theory.
The Council of Elrond already answered this:
‘But within those bounds nothing seems to dismay him,’ said Erestor. ‘Would he not take the Ring and keep it there, for ever harmless?’
‘No,’ said Gandalf, ‘not willingly. He might do so, if all the free folk of the world begged him, but he would not understand the need. And if he were given the Ring, he would soon forget it, or most likely throw it away. Such things have no hold on his mind. He would be a most unsafe guardian; and that alone is answer enough.’
‘But in any case,’ said Glorfindel, ‘to send the Ring to him would only postpone the day of evil. He is far away. We could not now take it back to him, unguessed, unmarked by any spy. And even if we could, soon or late the Lord of the Rings would learn of its hiding place and would bend all his power towards it. Could that power be defied by Bombadil alone? I think not. I think that in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was First; and then Night will come.’
The ring would not be destroyed. Sauron would conquer by force alone and when all was conquered (ant they would b) he would then at his leisure lay siege to Bombadil until the ring was his again.
This is in the video.
This is in the video.
*This. Is. In. The. Video.*
So giving the Ring to Tom would be like giving the Ring to any character played by Jack Black?😂
Yes. That's right.🤣
So funny you said that. I just commented that the thumbnail looks like Jack Black...
@@carysage yeah, also the personality, but maybe a bit less silly
Remember don't forget Debbie!!! Always enjoy the ending.
I had no idea Jack Black was actually Tom Bombadil
This video was brought to you by „TomdaBombadil19“!
"Wanna give the Ring to old Tom?"
Gandalf:"naaah he's a moron"
I’ve never thought about old man willow in this theory. That would be a good “what if” cause Tom wouldn’t care about it, but the ring wants to be found.
The concern of Tom with the One Ring in his possession wouldn't be that he would just lose it. It is that Tom would easily give it away as it was given to him. Just like how Frodo gave him the Ring, Tom looked at it and just handed it back. If you could even convince of him to take the Ring, you could make the same assumption that you could convince him to give it to whoever asked of him. Sauron wouldn't need to burn down the old forest. He would simply walk to the front door and ask for it. Remember that Sauron does not resort to violence immediately, he always does things the nice way first. There is no need to get your hands dirty if they're willing to comply.
You know how Dorothy just dances and skips down the yellow brick road…. That’s Tom just all across middle earth.
You can’t give this guy the ring 😂😂
I have a question. 💍 If a dragon or some huge being came in possession of the ring would ot grow to fit them? So would Ancelagon the black have a ring the size of a small mountain for example?
Related to what Glorfindel said, even if they could hide the ring forever, that wouldn’t stop Sauron from overrunning the rest of the world.
So why does he even need the ring if he can conquer everything without it ?
I didn't read or watch the series , just glimpses of it. So just asking.
Also his ork army is often defeated , so can he really conquer everyone ?
Cant they just assassinate him :D ?
@nerdoftherings: can you please do a video on Goldberry. You (and others) have done a few videos on Tom Bombadil, but to my knowledge no one has done a video on Goldberry.
I would be very interested to hear your (or anyone's) thoughts and theories, specifically on her origins.
Assuming she is a maia, why is she also called "river-woman's daughter"? To my recollection all maiar where created (not born) by Eru, and the only maia capable of reproducing was Melian (her only child was Luthien), which was a special circumstance granted by Eru. (early drafts of the Simarillion had the Ainur capable of reproducing but this was later abandoned if I recall correctly)
Or is she not a maia at all, but a creation of Eru meant specifically to be Tom's wife?
One can argue that with the ring out of action under Bombadil guardianship the Elves will be able to use their rings of power freely and thuse be able in alliance with the free humans to defeat Sauron with relative ease. After all the largest part of the power/ essense of Sauron was locked in that ring isn't so knowing with certainty that it will not be used would be a serious advantage.
I fully believe that Tom would last the longest out of everyone in Middle Earth but as was said at the council, he would fall last just as he was the very first. There's no way a husband and wife could stand against all of Middle Earth twisted to evil and turned against them unless they were Valar, and even then it's questionable at best
On a side note I like to think Tom would forget The One simply because he's always singing/smoking Old Tobey
As Valar they could stand against all of twisted middle earth,but they are not
but what if bombadil is illuvitar?
can he stop the armies if he had the ring then?
I believe he is Truth incarcerated.
I was on the page on which you made this video when the notification came and i was like what a fuckin coincidece
I view Tom as the embodied spirit of the land he tends. He seems like a force or being that found the beauty in the simplest of lives and embraced it fully. I’m not sure Tom would fight Sauron’s forces either, more like as they invade and destroy his forest his spirit would simply cease to exist, having been extinguished with the innocence and purity of his lands. I don’t see him coming to blows or casting spells to kill other living things, even if they are orcs, trolls, and goblins.
I thinks you forget that Tom is friends with Master Chief and The Jedi, who will come to his aid at his time of need .
Sly Marbo would no doubt come to his aid
The only way to eliminate the threat of Sauron was destroying the Ring. Even without it, he outlasts the Elves and Men over hundreds/thousands of years, and eventually controls all of Middle-Earth.
Haven't you covered this before? Or have I just watched too many LOTR videos?
He would try and flip it into his coat pocket like Bilbo did, miss and watch it tumble into the woods
Just from a cursory reading of LoTR....it's quite clear Bombadil is not normal within that world. To wear the ring and he not go invisible or Frodo wearing it and Bombadil seeing Frodo still, clearly indicates he is the earthly avatar of the creator. Only something above them all would have that power because even other Maiar can be consumed by it..
I love your "what if" vids!
Even if Bombadil would keep the ring, anyone could simply ask him to hand over the ring. Why use armies when a simple question is enough. Tom has no interest in the ring and as long as the visitor is not trying to change or destroy his realm, he would give the ring away. Saruman would go to Tom, ask him for the ring and Tom would willingly give it away because Saruman want's to have it. No threat or violence is needed. Tom does not care for anything that goes beyond his realm.
You know, Tom's jolly and childlike demeanor, innocence, playfulness and absolute disregard/ignorance of gravitas sometimes make me wonder if he isn't an author's children's insert. Or the concept of childlike innocence personified. A beautiful thing, as an idea older than old, but evergreen and unaffected by the grave matters of more serious folk. The last thing to stand and perhaps fall when all should come to darkness.
I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough in Tolkien's works to gauge the validity of this thought but I do think it's a beautiful one.
He's one of the kids' dolls/toys
As far as the stories are written down versions of giving bed time stories and the like, tom is an inclusion of a toy in the story, and he was clearly present enough in those stories to make it into the written one.
His personality was probably defined by one of the kids or by how they played with the toy
Gandalf had answered this question in FotR. He would have lost it, and even if he still possessed it sauron would have overpowered him.
What if the Fellowship stayed with Fordo ?
After Boromirs death and the capture of Merry and Pippin. Aragorn decides that protecting the ring bearer is more important then anything else. So Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas decide to follow Fordo and find him walking circles in the Dead Marshes.
About Goldberry,
Is it possible that the Withywindle gave birth to Goldberry only because Tom was wondering all the way down to the Brandywine and he was lonely, or the spurit in the river sensed it?
Maybe the Withywindle was hallowed by Ulmo, and maybe in some way Eru allowed for the creation of Goldberry as he allowed for the creation of the Dwarves and Ents.
I think in the Old Forest, Goldberry is like Eve, while Tom is like Adam.
That's a beautiful thought. Adam and Eve unmarred in Eden.
@@Eowyn3Pride
Yes, exactly. I also believe that the Elves were meant to be a "sinless" race. Of course, we have the Fëanorians and Eöl and Maeglin, but Elves generally don't commit "sins" in lore.
What if? As much as I love ''What Ifs'', the explanation is in the first part of the novel! He (Tom Bombadil) would either throw it away or simply forget about it. Why? Because, as he is his own master, the ''one ring'' is a mere trinket to him. Nothing special!
Great video! I believe Tom would forget about it. Also at this time in the story the Balrog had not been defeated yet. If Sauron sent word to the Balrog to help retrieve the ring in the name of Melkor. Then that will be to much evil for even Tom to ignore!
So, I would start by saying I agree, and Bombadil wouldn't be a good protector; people can hype up his unlimited might, and proclaim him Eru Illuvatar, or Tolkien, on Middle Earth, but it's never that good and decency have unlimited power; it's that they have enough, and I don't think he does here. Still, I don't see why it couldn't work? Don't enlist Tom, but do take advantage of his proximity. He seems content to remain in his domain, and I doubt he constantly tills, shifts, and reshapes it; Tolkien seems to like to at least throw shade on some degrees of change, when they don't automatically mean better, so I imagine a lot of Tom's home is mostly unchanging. Dig a hole, drop a box holding tbe Ring in, and fill the hole in, then let proximity win. Tom doesn't have to actively guard it; it's no worse than assuming most people won't approach the Desolation of Smaug, which makes it rather safe. As for getting it there, that doesn't seem too hard. Sauron has spies, sure, but the book established that the Lord of the Rings has no ability to actually sense them; he knew not, for sure, where the Elven Rings were, or even one brimming with his own essence, and sometimes the Nazgul seem little better at locating it. Make a bit of a show leaving Ruvendell; doubtless those same spies saw the Fellowship when it did leave. Let them follow that group, and THEN send the stealthy ones back. If stealth was ever the strategy, it woyld work here, and then back to Tom, a hole in tbe ground, and no one knowing where it went. It doesn't sol e the problem, which is the point; Sauron doesn't ever need to get the Ring back to win, but the Free Peoples can ONLY win by destroying it, so hiding it ANYWHERE, instead if trying to unmake it,is pointless. He'll still win, eventually, and it wasn't through all their armies, or the might of their Wizards, that they won, but because they destroyed the Ring.
At the risk of asking a dumb Star Wars question, how did they figure out that the Ring could be destroyed where it was made, and that that place was the Cracks of Doom?Saruman spent time in the East, but even if he was "learning the craft of the enemy", what said Mount Doom? Celebrimor didn't make Rings in a volcano; I would assume that the Gwaith i'Mirdain used a shop, and forges, if you will, and so it would make sense that Sauron did so in the deepest bowels of his secure Barad-dur, which wasn't raised atop the volcano. It's convenient that our heroes didn't have to pierce that dread place, but what said Mount Doom?
Actually, destroying the Ring in the fires of Orodruin must have something to do with "Morgoth's Ring" power in the volcano itself.
The reason why is because the temperature needed to melt metal is actually much hotter than that of lava. So obviously the hottest temperature was not the main issue.
I think we can assume that Sauron figured out a way to obtain the power Morgoth imbued into Arda and that was through his Magnum Opus: the creation of Orodruin in the First Age. Maybe it takes this same power to unlock the Ring's power.
Or maybe Tolkien just sucked at science.🤣
I mean even if Tom faced Sauron he's not much of a warrior , he would simply give the ring to him if Sauron asked nicely .
One scenario I haven't seen covered (if you know of a video, please tell me) is what if no one EVER found the ring after Isildur lost it? What if no one ever checked the river, Deagol hadn't stumbled across it, and Sauron had to proceed without it? Would they be able to beat him? Would it just be delaying the inevitable doom with unending resurrections?
Sauron wins in this scenario. Remember, the forces Aragorn led to the Black Gate were going to be overwhelmed, and that would be the end of that. Afterwards, it would be simply a matter of time before Sauron marched forth to take Lorien, and then Rivendell; head north and take out Dale and the Lonely Mountain next.
The bigger question is, what if Sauron had been smart enough to play the long game? Sauron would easily win against Men, his immortality made him seen a god to them. The Elves were going to leave, he simply could have waited them out.
@@scoobysnacker1999 Well the question is, how would they have planned differently if there was no Ring strategy? Would they have done everything exactly the same? Seems incredibly unlikely.
@@Halloweenowl Just looking at everything big picture, it seemed like Sauron had Middle Earth in his grasp, if he only waited. The Elves were going to leave and outside of Numenor, he owned Men. The only way he loses is if he can be 'killed'; the only way that happens is if he removed most of his power and placed it somewhere vulnerable (as he did, with the Ring).
The sticking point is Numenor, and how Sauron can defeat it without dying. If he had enough fea to come back from that without making the Ring initially, he wins.
As for the Third Age, Sauron was rolling to victory without the Ring. If it had stayed lost, he wins. If someone else claims it, he wins. Only way he loses is with the Ring's destruction, which he incorrectly calculated was impossible.
@@scoobysnacker1999 Yeah, I agree that he probably would have won. The question is HOW would it have changed the battles, the decisions, everything? Would they have tried to appeal to the Valar? Would Saruman still support Sauron in the hopes he would come across the ring eventually, or would he re-ally with Middle Earth against him? Would Glorfindel have been a more prominent figure throughout the war? It's those kind of things I am curious about.
What if arvedui survived the shipwreck or didn't get in the ship while it is storming at Sea and become king of Gondor with his wife becoming the queen and rulling the Kingdom instead of arvedui for compromise after the last anárion king got him self slain by the Witch king me by Eärnur arvedui Fíriel Aranarth the Witch king got slain by Fíriel.
What if the balrog that would become Durin,s Bane was slain in the war of wrath
Better questions would be, “Why is Tom Bombadil in the books at all?” Or, “Given that Tom Bombadil doesn’t fit into the rest of the vast and well constructed mythos, why spend any important thought on him?” Beorn could be the subject of such questions as well. These characters seem to be fleeting ideas that probably would have been better suited to an editor’s cut.
saruman at that point, with his betrayal not yet well known by all, could simply walk into the forest and ask for ring, not knowing better, he would simply hand over the ring, which would remove the seal of the valar, giving saruman full strength with which he would over take mordor and likely get durin baine on his side, not to mention the blue wizards will likely rally to him and with them the men of the east
Could you pls do "what if Bilbo joined the fellowship in rivendell" ?
Tom is clearly confined to the Old Forest, likely because Goldberry can never travel far from the Withywindle, her river-mother.
we finally get to see who Tom Bambadil is, on the second season of Ring of Power
It was. He looked at it. Flipped it around. Gave it back.
What about Goldberry? If Tom had the ring, would the Ring influence her the same way it did with Sméagol over Deagol? Would Goldberry be able to help Tom positively? Tom might not be inspired by the ring, but he IS inspired by his beloved… and why wouldn’t that count for something?