I think that’s also similar to rending abilities you find on weapons as well. If a weapon has +% rending that should further increase armor penetration.
Game needs a codex section explaining all the icons and what the stats mean etc. We shouldn't have to find these guides (although the are massively appreciated thank you for making this) outside of the game to be able to understand how these things work. I'd also love the enemy types to be explained in a codex (like a game wiki I can access in the Mourningstar) and be able to take a look at the enemy models in detail.
I agree, if you purchased the game on steam, go drop a negative review voicing your concern. It's the only way to get them to do anything sadly as they don't care
I agree. Coming from Vermintide 2 where they have made so many big improvements with the game over the years some of their decisions with Darktide really puzzle me and almost feel like a step backwards rather than them trying to do something new or different. The UI in vermintide has become very good and explains a lot yet in darktide it's worse than the original vermintide 2 UI. One of my big complains is the new revive system requires an ogryn to revive if you are taking damage otherwise it's interrupted. With the addition of a lot more ranged enemies in this game it makes reviving extremely hard in a horde situation and the downed person gets killed off faster as well it seems. I'd like to see it changed to somewhere between the 2 games. Revive not being interrupted by damage but you also take damage instead of auto blocking while reviving.
"Knowledge is power, power corrupts" Is what I read on the loading screen once. I thought it was just there for flavor, but I guess it was a direct message from developers.
The attack indicated by arrows is actually a heavy attack with extra cleave. The star-looking smash is an overhead strike meant more for single-target damage, usually with better stagger. The sword swing is a normal sweeping attack, and the sword stab is for piercing attacks, usually also single-target. This has been my experience with them at least.
These symbols all have names. "Strikedown" (the one on all axes, that makes you chop downwards at heads) seems to pierce armour good too. Vanguard is a sweep, Relentless is a _big_ sweep with extra cleave.
That was my experience too, as vanguard and relentless didn't appear to have any consistently different animations on ogryn weapons. So I guessed vanguard was similar to linesman or heavy linesman modifier from VT2 and relentless similar to tank modifier.
One thing I like about the dagger is its movement speed is faster, stamina drain takes longer and the stamina regen is faster than other weapons. And its a quick weapon swap so you can get out of a surround while weilding a ranged weapon.
It's dodge range is also extremely superb. The best in the game I think, capable of just about dodging anything with the right timing even while attacking. Also a thing I noticed with the knife is you can charge a heavy while sprinting. I've used this to dodge dance a plague ogryn while consistently stabbing it in the head. Such a fun and stylish weapon.
@@TheDoomsock dodge dancing around big slow enemies is a beautifully satisfying thing to do. Now just need to get a dagger with the backstab weakspot perk and be a true rogue.
This. I bought one just to try it out and, though it is lacking for crowd control, it's actually quite nice for veterans since you tend to stay at range anyway but you can still help with those tougher enemies. The extra speed also help me catch up with the group faster.
@@binjuice326 I run zealot as well and its so much fun when you push F, charge in like the maniac you are and land a power attack on the head to crit and delete the specialist
A few things to note, the bars are not comparable to other weapons. You compared the swords mobility bar to the axes mobility which you cant really do because because certain weapons will have higher dodge ranges regardless. Find a knife with almost zero mobility and then a eviscerator with very high mobility, the knife will still dodge further by a lot. After a ton of testing, the entire bar of mobility only increases your dodge range by that weapon type by about 20%, and im talking from an empty bar to a completely full bar. Another thing im not sure you are correct about the weapons rating having no relation to the damage, after some testing on multiple rating 400 eviscerators , a maxed out damage bar vs a completely empty damage bar only increased the weapons damage by about 10, not 10%.. just 10. (im hoping this is a bug though because currently it means that the damage bar should be ignored when deciding how strong a weapon is because that little increase will never change a weapons kill breakpoints) The gist is most of the bars have so little impact on a weapon you can basically ignore them outside of a few, specifically cleave targets, that one can actually being maxed out actually has an impact on your performance because of the increase to the amount of targets hit
All totally valid points man! I just didn't have another axe to show off that mobility and how that differentiates itself. So I sort of mucked up the test with a false comparison there, sorry about that brother - thank you very much about for keeping me honest! I also feel like these bars are bugged up the ass. I've seen a lot of different values result in a lot of different tests so it has made talking about them confusing until the devs said something
@@italianspartacus haha look at this, I just happened to be testing with a bugged weapon, from todays patch notes "Fixed issues where the Tigrus Mk II Heavy Eviscerator damage stat did not work as intended, damage defaulted to 50%. Now should scale damage properly.", So i think the bars are probably a bit stronger than i first figured but hopefully we get actual values soon, thank you for the testing!
Yeah I feel like so many of my videos are just going to be entirely out of date come the 30th, but that's fine if things get in a more stable and EASIER to understand place. I have a feeling Fatshark might be holding things back or lowering xp, and a number of other things, so that the game isn't fully discovered by the time the 30th comes - if that makes sense
Yes, it seems that all bars are only comparable between weapons of the same type. This is obvious with the "ammo" bar, but not so obvious with other stats.
Awesome video! I kinda wish that the game made even a rudimentaey attempt at explaining all of these things to you. Heck even the flavor text gives you a better idea of what the weapon does rather than the "new and improved" weapon stats UI. I really appreciate videos like these because of that!
you are right about the intended purpose of the weapon ratings, as that was confirmed by Hedge in the official discord just this morning and probably at other times but... Many weapons of the same type do more damage even when the sliders indicate that it does less over all damage. This goes for weapons that are exactly the same type and model as well. Thankfuly it was confirmed in todays patch notes that they are working to rework or improve this rating and slider system and it should be ready sometime after launch.
One of the reasons for this is that damage calculation is buggy as hell. +elite damage does 10x of what it says currently. So a low damage weapon with +6% elite damage will easily outperform a much higher damage weapon without that bonus.
@@Nachtwind7 it goes beyond even that unfortunately. I had two tigrus mkII eviscerators, the one with less rating and damage without any damage modifiers was outperforming the one with higher rating and damage and an extra dmg modifier. On all enemy types, Kinda crazy. Tested in the meat grinder, on malice.
@@starryeyes5860 Im almost open to the idea of not even including that stat randomness at all to be honest. Like if they want to force into the fact that you are using a salvaged level weapon, they could go onto antoher road or simply add clearly visible and readable maluses. I have gotten the same situation as you did with a higher weapon with a clear cut indication that it was better overall yet it performed very poorly. Hopefully they drop this "oh the same weapon and even same mark of weapon is different stat wise" shenanigans. It's basically a big gripe for me and possibly others as well.
I'm no expert but I build around the Eviscerator. From what I gather and seems acccurate it means shredding armor and staggering heavy enemies while the special is active, i.e. after revving a chain weapon. A chain weapon with high shred cuts down elites better if you commit to the special attack but it draws from other stats like mobility to do so. (I think!)
So "Cleave Target" is the same as "ignoring enemy hit mass"? I have an Antax with Brutal Momentum on it and very low Cleave Target (32% -> 0.8). The Cleave Target modifier shouldnt do anything at all then, if this Blessing procs. Or does that work differently? I heard a lot of different opionions on this, maybe you have an insight on this? :-)
Really appreciate the guide, very informative. I really hope there is merchant/work station that lets you change the weapon sliders to some extent. Otherwise the RNG on gear is gonna be very frustrating.
The video that fatshark just put out seems to indicate that we will be able to improve our equipment at some point. Probably level locked. My first character is only 9 so it's probably a ways off.
@@doomcookies I started seeing bolters, chain swords and power swords on lvl 20 and Plasma on lvl 28. I am not sure if i was unlucky, if those are the level requirements or i just leveled too fast and the shop wasnt refreshing fast enough.
This system is obtuse and needlessly dense while presenting little to no information without a video on youtube explaining it. That's a failure of design.
The fact that this video is required is baffling to me. I'm not sure why the game released without a better system in place for explaining different weapon stats and abilities. Just, give me some tooltips... Anyway thanks for the info, I learned a lot!
Devs are extremely bad and lazy. The tooltips are soo easy to implement a modder would have done it in 2-3 days but alas it's a "live service" game... heck even better, add a Codex with entries for each stat type and effect + video to further show it visualy. But that would take a whole week of 2 hours of work per day... god forbid asking that from fatlazy studio.
@@ravager990 Well, I don't know about all that my friend. The game is a lot of fun, and it has a lot of potential. The art design, sound design, gameplay, and "tactile feel" of the weapons and combat are all wins in my book. They obviously need to do a ton of work to improve the stability, load times, crashes, bugs, balance changes, etc. They also need to work on - like you said - a Codex or tooltips - or maybe additional tutorials to explain different weapon stats. On top of that they need to release new content in order for it to be a "full" experience. I will admit that this DOES feel more like a pre-release than a fully finished product. I appreciate your emotions, but I'm very weary of going full send on the negativity, because a) it's generally not very constructive, and b) if we want the game to improve and get better (which I hope we do, I know I do) then we don't want to dogpile with negativity, which could lead to the Devs abandoning the project. I'm thinking Dawn of War 3, as the most obvious example, but there are countless other games where this happened - where the response is too negative, the community so toxic, that the project just gets abandoned. Anyways, I hope you can find some fun yet, and if not, then perhaps revisit the game in a month to see if it's improved at all. I'm enjoying it quite a bit, regardless of all the issues, but to each their own. Cheers!
Keep in mind the weapon traits at the top matter (I.E assassin flurry swiftstrike etc) as it provide bonuses as well, I believe assassin along with mobility does provide dodge bonuses plus additional headshot damage, this is what makes variants tend to be so different
Would it? There's a reason graphs exist, and that's to convey numbers in a simple manner. They could probably make a mouse-over or a toggle to show numbers, but it's doubtful it'd help you be able to choose between a weapon.
@@TheStoic84 the lines don't mean anything really, all i can see is that one bar is slightly bigger than another. I would much rather have hard numbers. Like this i barely ever feel like a new weapon is an upgrade
@@MLF4468 You won't notice incremental upgrades, which is what you'll see as you gradually increase item levels. Darktide like Vermintide doesn't use huge numbers like WoW. If for example, you're doing 110 damage with a 1.1x damage multiplier on a 100 power level item and you upgrade to a 110 power level item that goes to a 1.11x damage multiplier, you're now doing 111 damage. These are the type of incremental upgrades that you get in Darktide. Darktide, like Vermintide puts the focus on making a variety of weapons and letting the player decide which weapon they like to use.
I’m not entirely sure the rating does increase…I have weapons at 430, curios 85-120…and my store is consistently a max of 82 curios, and 390 weapons. I have 50 hours, and this was true across 14 consecutive store refreshes yesterday. Easily the most frustrating part of the gearing thus far.
@@italianspartacus Hmmm..i have friends getting some stuff at 430-440 out of the store. One has upgraded items to almost 500. May have bugged past a soft-cap. We can hope!
OK maybe a dumb question but if Finesse on a MELEE weapon is weakpoint damage does mean I have to actually aim my melee swings for that weak point? Like am I supposed to be specifically slashing at faces as opposed to anywhere else on their body?
Yes, even with low finesse you do more damage if you stab a dude's face or go for the fleshy bit rather than armor. It is why we all love sweep attacks at head height
Ammo bar actually does make a difference in the overall mag, just more noticeable of the weapon has a lot of bullets like the braced infantry gun and the heavy stubbed. Low ammo weapons like shotguns tend to see less of a difference.
Bruh I want this on revolver so it can get 2 bullets per elite kill again for Veteran. 1 bullet per elite kill feels terrible right now. Since most elites take 2 or 3 headshots to kill minimum.
Okay, so does that mean if I see a 420gs rippergun and i buy that, all my ranged weapons can now be over 420gs or only the ripperguns? So I have to buy each weapon typ individually ( Knife,Shield,Club etc.?
Thanks for the video, really helpful! One thing that I want to know about this system: I reached lvl 30 on my zealot and I keep getting weapons of higher rating (only rare in the normal shop and purple/Orange in the contract shop). How does it increase? I think if I buy weapons with higher rating, I get even more rating (but I'm not sure). Is there a cap to it? In vermintide it was easy, everytime you open a box you have the chance to get ±10 iLvl from the maximum iLvl item you've get before stopping at 650 (350 from hero level and 300 from items), but here i couldn't find any logic, sometimes i get 350 rating, sometimes 450.
they need to put in actual numbers for better comparison, or put a red bar / green bar overlayed on the currently equiped weapon to quickly tell if it's better or not
Hey, first thx for your work and time to come along with stats. Don't get it why Fatshark didn't implement a codex and/or some kind of bestarium -.- ..except they force the rejects to increase brain activitiy.. Anyway, i have question about the weapons rating at the store: If i got it right you have to buy weapons sometimes with the highest score to just keep it in my inventory. So the game makes weapons with higher rating buyable? Was already wondering how to increase weapon stats after lvl30 besides Hadron and weapon blessing. (iam german so english isn't my native language, hope you got my point^^') And another think comes even in my mind: Missionscreen - do you (or some of you here) noticed this little imperial eagle like symbol below the mission pictures? What do they standing for? This eagle can have different numbers wings. Got several ideas but i wasn't able to get the reason out of it so far.
from what I gathered, each weapon type has all base stats. If no Bar is shown they are FIXED for that weapon type (all Catachan Mk3 have same block cost/defense). Bars show the range between minimum and Maximum possible Roll of those stats. Each bar goes from 0% to 100%. The power rating is the SUM of all these Bar percentages. you can think of Power rating as points the weapon can spend on those variable stats. Because we do not have access YET to the Base weapon stat numbers, and can only see the weapon-specific range as percentages, You CANNOT compare different weapons together since they might have different base stats and those stats might have tighter or wider ranges. You can however, competently compare the same weapon type with each other. this is easily seen with ammo. in the end, only life fire testing will work.
What is really awkward is Cleave Target is a slider. Say you are trying for a low dmg but high Crowd Control build. Cleave Targets Should just be a flat +X targets. Because with a slider, im assuming can be tested, maybe a soft cap. IE maybe having 50% of a bar is adding 2 more enemies per swing, and having a slider around 60% is still only 2 targets, thus making a soft cap of 2 targets @50% and maybe isn't worth getting the extra 10% and instead keep one that has less Cleave Targets but more Cleave Dmg.
This dude just made a video at the beach and was like: "The sun is actually green", points the camera up, "See it looks yellow, which means it's green." "This stuff on the ground is called blemf", points the camera down, "See it's made of tiny rocks." "The ocean actually goes away at night", points the camera to the sun soaked sea, "See it's here right now."
Why some weird bars. why not just number we could crunch. How the hell am i suppose to know how much more damage am i making if my damage bar is 2milimiters to the left or to the right, how many targets can i cleave if my bar is 2/3 full as opposed to 1/3 full. God this system is form over matter in its worst possible way.
7:29 - The Ammo value seems to add additional ammo on top of a base value that's the same for every weapon of that type. i.e. Your gun here might have 70 / 380 if it rolled with 0 ammo stat, which is the absolute minimum base value. If it rolled with the maximum ammo stat it might be 120 / 600 instead. It seems to be increasing a base value by some amount, instead of representing the actual amount... the same rifle wouldn't have 10 / 80 with a very low roll, for example.
Since the items you can buy update every 60 minutes and I'm done playing for the night just watching shows with the wife.. I feel like I need to log in before bed just to see if I can buy higher item level stuff just so I can potentially buy higher item level stuff when I log in to actually play tomorrow🤔
I can’t wrap my head around why it’s not explained in the game itself. Okay, they are planning to change it, that’s fine. But if the players don’t have any clue how it all works, what are they planning to base their decisions off? This prevents any feedback to even be formed.
So, the higher the rating, the greater the bonus of those bars? But the overall type(crowd control, assassin etc) also seems to make a big difference in how much damage they deal to different types. I have to say, I really like how obscure it is, this is what makes games like borderlands boring in the end: you start to look only at the stats...
If the item level determines how much goes into each bar (Stat bars) then why, when you upgrade the weapon and increase the item level, do the stat bars not increase at all? Now that we have numerical values in percentages...you can see without a doubt that NONE of the stat bars get ANY increase when you increase item level.
Basically means that better weapons aren't really better and are literally cosmetic mostly......the mundane combat of vermintide all over no matter how much better the "gear" nothing really happens.
Penetration is armour reduction. Other than that, all is good. Lasguns have penetration but they don't punch through targets. Bolt guns don't have penetration but can fire through soft cover and targets
I love the game, as I loved Vermintide, but Fatshark really don't know how to make stats and mechanics intuitive to understand. How about calling the "Damage" stat on weapons "Damage multiplier" or "extra damage"? And maybe give it actual numbers instead of bars? How much more damage to the base damage is a "half full bar"? 1.1? 1.5? 1.2? π?! Why are the offered weapons in a shop dependant on the highest weapon rating in my inventory? Instead of something that makes sense, like my trust level? Shop owner be like "Sorry I cannot sell u more powerful weapons until you have a little less powerful weapons in your inventory already! Here, buy this 205 weapon and I will have a 206 weapon next time!"
So what does it mean if a particular attribute is not on the weapon? For instance, what happens to your dodge if mobility isn't on the weapon? Is it just reduced to a base distance?
Thanks for clearing this up, information is so bad about the item stats. I find it odd that there isnt anything in the game that explains this, not even a popup when having the cursor on the stat icon.
They're the types of attacks, cleave, overhead strike, and a diagonal slash! :) the third one is the special. Press V and it'll give you a breakdown of the combo for your primary and secondary. For ranged weapons, it tells you if it's semi auto, burst, or full auto
"item rating is based on the highest rating for that category that you have" so that brought back that bs mechanic. great. easy enough to play around but everyone i tell about it hates it lmao.
You're not supposed to compare bars between weapon types like this, they are modifiers on the weapons base stats and all weapon types have different base stats.
thanks, that was some much-needed info though i figured out some of it. the part on ammo you just compared to rounds in the clip. you didn't compare to total rounds carried. the one had lower rounds in clip but a higher ammo capacity if i remember right.
I have a weapon with both finesse, and critical damage bonus. So finesse ONLY means critical headshots? And bonus critical damage is for critical body shots? Or all shots? It makes no sense
I believe that means it's even more damage to weak spots :) the crit damage threshold is much higher. Finesse is raw damage to the weak spot, vs crit damage is only in the event of a crit. Does that help?
TLDR: Attribute system and itemization is dogshit. If it takes someone making youtube video based on words of community manager in discord to break UI down it means your designers failed at their job miserably.
So i purchased the higest rating melee weapon and ranged weapon, but dindt get any new weapons after a mission (even with a level up). Any idea what im missing here?
I thought Penetration was how much damage went through armor?
Yeah it definitely is. Sometimes I'm just a fucking idiot hahahah
its more like how much armor your weapon ignores
@@wesgaminginc.439 Same thing different words.
Ok
I think that’s also similar to rending abilities you find on weapons as well. If a weapon has +% rending that should further increase armor penetration.
Game needs a codex section explaining all the icons and what the stats mean etc. We shouldn't have to find these guides (although the are massively appreciated thank you for making this) outside of the game to be able to understand how these things work. I'd also love the enemy types to be explained in a codex (like a game wiki I can access in the Mourningstar) and be able to take a look at the enemy models in detail.
I agree, if you purchased the game on steam, go drop a negative review voicing your concern. It's the only way to get them to do anything sadly as they don't care
@@ravager990 its not released yet... Kekw
I agree. Coming from Vermintide 2 where they have made so many big improvements with the game over the years some of their decisions with Darktide really puzzle me and almost feel like a step backwards rather than them trying to do something new or different. The UI in vermintide has become very good and explains a lot yet in darktide it's worse than the original vermintide 2 UI. One of my big complains is the new revive system requires an ogryn to revive if you are taking damage otherwise it's interrupted. With the addition of a lot more ranged enemies in this game it makes reviving extremely hard in a horde situation and the downed person gets killed off faster as well it seems. I'd like to see it changed to somewhere between the 2 games. Revive not being interrupted by damage but you also take damage instead of auto blocking while reviving.
You don't need to down vote the game over something so minor. You can express that to them in other ways
"Knowledge is power, power corrupts"
Is what I read on the loading screen once. I thought it was just there for flavor, but I guess it was a direct message from developers.
The attack indicated by arrows is actually a heavy attack with extra cleave. The star-looking smash is an overhead strike meant more for single-target damage, usually with better stagger. The sword swing is a normal sweeping attack, and the sword stab is for piercing attacks, usually also single-target. This has been my experience with them at least.
It seems like assassin type of attacks has higher crit chance, at least thats my feeling.
These symbols all have names. "Strikedown" (the one on all axes, that makes you chop downwards at heads) seems to pierce armour good too. Vanguard is a sweep, Relentless is a _big_ sweep with extra cleave.
That was my experience too, as vanguard and relentless didn't appear to have any consistently different animations on ogryn weapons. So I guessed vanguard was similar to linesman or heavy linesman modifier from VT2 and relentless similar to tank modifier.
They should include these in the trainign room maybe as a small video showing the effect of each stat.
They have already written a post saying they will go into more detail for all of the stats and such makeing it easier to read and understand
Dude it’s 10 in the morning I haven’t even rolled out of bed and you’ve already rolled out a darktide video
Darktide is a hell of a drug
10am and you’re still in bed? 🧐
@@solosnoop1 gotta stay on the grindset right?!?!?! haha!
@@sham5614 Exactly! 😂
One thing I like about the dagger is its movement speed is faster, stamina drain takes longer and the stamina regen is faster than other weapons. And its a quick weapon swap so you can get out of a surround while weilding a ranged weapon.
It's dodge range is also extremely superb. The best in the game I think, capable of just about dodging anything with the right timing even while attacking. Also a thing I noticed with the knife is you can charge a heavy while sprinting. I've used this to dodge dance a plague ogryn while consistently stabbing it in the head. Such a fun and stylish weapon.
@@TheDoomsock dodge dancing around big slow enemies is a beautifully satisfying thing to do. Now just need to get a dagger with the backstab weakspot perk and be a true rogue.
This. I bought one just to try it out and, though it is lacking for crowd control, it's actually quite nice for veterans since you tend to stay at range anyway but you can still help with those tougher enemies. The extra speed also help me catch up with the group faster.
I'm loving it on zealot, but I think the dodge range was nerfed in the latest patch... To be fair it was as fast as sprinting prior.
@@binjuice326 I run zealot as well and its so much fun when you push F, charge in like the maniac you are and land a power attack on the head to crit and delete the specialist
A few things to note, the bars are not comparable to other weapons. You compared the swords mobility bar to the axes mobility which you cant really do because because certain weapons will have higher dodge ranges regardless. Find a knife with almost zero mobility and then a eviscerator with very high mobility, the knife will still dodge further by a lot. After a ton of testing, the entire bar of mobility only increases your dodge range by that weapon type by about 20%, and im talking from an empty bar to a completely full bar.
Another thing im not sure you are correct about the weapons rating having no relation to the damage, after some testing on multiple rating 400 eviscerators , a maxed out damage bar vs a completely empty damage bar only increased the weapons damage by about 10, not 10%.. just 10. (im hoping this is a bug though because currently it means that the damage bar should be ignored when deciding how strong a weapon is because that little increase will never change a weapons kill breakpoints)
The gist is most of the bars have so little impact on a weapon you can basically ignore them outside of a few, specifically cleave targets, that one can actually being maxed out actually has an impact on your performance because of the increase to the amount of targets hit
All totally valid points man! I just didn't have another axe to show off that mobility and how that differentiates itself. So I sort of mucked up the test with a false comparison there, sorry about that brother - thank you very much about for keeping me honest!
I also feel like these bars are bugged up the ass. I've seen a lot of different values result in a lot of different tests so it has made talking about them confusing until the devs said something
@@italianspartacus haha look at this, I just happened to be testing with a bugged weapon, from todays patch notes "Fixed issues where the Tigrus Mk II Heavy Eviscerator damage stat did not work as intended, damage defaulted to 50%. Now should scale damage properly.",
So i think the bars are probably a bit stronger than i first figured but hopefully we get actual values soon, thank you for the testing!
Yeah I feel like so many of my videos are just going to be entirely out of date come the 30th, but that's fine if things get in a more stable and EASIER to understand place. I have a feeling Fatshark might be holding things back or lowering xp, and a number of other things, so that the game isn't fully discovered by the time the 30th comes - if that makes sense
Yes, it seems that all bars are only comparable between weapons of the same type. This is obvious with the "ammo" bar, but not so obvious with other stats.
I think you are the first to come out with this level of detail on what the tooltips say. Fantastic job.
Awesome video! I kinda wish that the game made even a rudimentaey attempt at explaining all of these things to you. Heck even the flavor text gives you a better idea of what the weapon does rather than the "new and improved" weapon stats UI. I really appreciate videos like these because of that!
I'm so glad the game gives you the actual numbers now not just a vague slider
you are right about the intended purpose of the weapon ratings, as that was confirmed by Hedge in the official discord just this morning and probably at other times but... Many weapons of the same type do more damage even when the sliders indicate that it does less over all damage. This goes for weapons that are exactly the same type and model as well. Thankfuly it was confirmed in todays patch notes that they are working to rework or improve this rating and slider system and it should be ready sometime after launch.
One of the reasons for this is that damage calculation is buggy as hell. +elite damage does 10x of what it says currently. So a low damage weapon with +6% elite damage will easily outperform a much higher damage weapon without that bonus.
@@Nachtwind7 it goes beyond even that unfortunately. I had two tigrus mkII eviscerators, the one with less rating and damage without any damage modifiers was outperforming the one with higher rating and damage and an extra dmg modifier. On all enemy types, Kinda crazy. Tested in the meat grinder, on malice.
@@starryeyes5860 Damage is not the only slider that adds damage. Shredder and Penetration also add damage to certain targets.
@@starryeyes5860 Im almost open to the idea of not even including that stat randomness at all to be honest. Like if they want to force into the fact that you are using a salvaged level weapon, they could go onto antoher road or simply add clearly visible and readable maluses.
I have gotten the same situation as you did with a higher weapon with a clear cut indication that it was better overall yet it performed very poorly.
Hopefully they drop this "oh the same weapon and even same mark of weapon is different stat wise" shenanigans. It's basically a big gripe for me and possibly others as well.
Any idea what the "Shredder" stat on chain weapons means?
I'm no expert but I build around the Eviscerator. From what I gather and seems acccurate it means shredding armor and staggering heavy enemies while the special is active, i.e. after revving a chain weapon. A chain weapon with high shred cuts down elites better if you commit to the special attack but it draws from other stats like mobility to do so. (I think!)
TLDR for normies such as myself:
Stars equal stats
I kinda needed this tbh. Thx. I didnt know why my weapon with less damage in the chart did more Damage while testing it
So "Cleave Target" is the same as "ignoring enemy hit mass"? I have an Antax with Brutal Momentum on it and very low Cleave Target (32% -> 0.8). The Cleave Target modifier shouldnt do anything at all then, if this Blessing procs. Or does that work differently? I heard a lot of different opionions on this, maybe you have an insight on this? :-)
Really appreciate the guide, very informative. I really hope there is merchant/work station that lets you change the weapon sliders to some extent. Otherwise the RNG on gear is gonna be very frustrating.
The video that fatshark just put out seems to indicate that we will be able to improve our equipment at some point. Probably level locked. My first character is only 9 so it's probably a ways off.
@@doomcookies I started seeing bolters, chain swords and power swords on lvl 20 and Plasma on lvl 28. I am not sure if i was unlucky, if those are the level requirements or i just leveled too fast and the shop wasnt refreshing fast enough.
Thank you! Finally someone explaining what the hell the stats are for. Hopefully FatShark adds some tooltips before/for launch.
Bummer you didn't address Psyker stats on weapons. Another video perhaps?
Some hard numerical scores would be nice
This system is obtuse and needlessly dense while presenting little to no information without a video on youtube explaining it. That's a failure of design.
This might be the most painful system of weapon stats I've seen in years. Thanks for explaining it, but I hate it
Sacred Bolter dont need no stability. I shoot, the Emperor aims.
Good video, loved the breakdown.
From what I noticed ammo is the max amount of ammo carried for said gun not per magazine
Both, because increasing the per mag increases the max amount!
The fact that this video is required is baffling to me. I'm not sure why the game released without a better system in place for explaining different weapon stats and abilities. Just, give me some tooltips...
Anyway thanks for the info, I learned a lot!
give. me. fucking. tooltips! AGREED BROTHER!
Devs are extremely bad and lazy. The tooltips are soo easy to implement a modder would have done it in 2-3 days but alas it's a "live service" game... heck even better, add a Codex with entries for each stat type and effect + video to further show it visualy. But that would take a whole week of 2 hours of work per day... god forbid asking that from fatlazy studio.
@@ravager990 Well, I don't know about all that my friend. The game is a lot of fun, and it has a lot of potential. The art design, sound design, gameplay, and "tactile feel" of the weapons and combat are all wins in my book.
They obviously need to do a ton of work to improve the stability, load times, crashes, bugs, balance changes, etc. They also need to work on - like you said - a Codex or tooltips - or maybe additional tutorials to explain different weapon stats. On top of that they need to release new content in order for it to be a "full" experience. I will admit that this DOES feel more like a pre-release than a fully finished product.
I appreciate your emotions, but I'm very weary of going full send on the negativity, because a) it's generally not very constructive, and b) if we want the game to improve and get better (which I hope we do, I know I do) then we don't want to dogpile with negativity, which could lead to the Devs abandoning the project. I'm thinking Dawn of War 3, as the most obvious example, but there are countless other games where this happened - where the response is too negative, the community so toxic, that the project just gets abandoned.
Anyways, I hope you can find some fun yet, and if not, then perhaps revisit the game in a month to see if it's improved at all. I'm enjoying it quite a bit, regardless of all the issues, but to each their own.
Cheers!
Why aren't these stats available in game with mouse over or clickable?
Thanks for the clarity.
Appreciate some breakdown. The lack of tooltips or a codex is f'ing appauling.
Some ranges weapons have Penetration, while others have Collateral. What's the difference then?
Keep in mind the weapon traits at the top matter (I.E assassin flurry swiftstrike etc) as it provide bonuses as well, I believe assassin along with mobility does provide dodge bonuses plus additional headshot damage, this is what makes variants tend to be so different
Nice video, except one little small mistake with the penetration for melee. I think it means how much it goes through the armored enemies.
agreed, I’m not positive but I’m pretty sure its armor penetration
I kinda wish we just got straight up numbers in the game instead of sliders.
"The item rating is not making this do extra damage" while he proceeds to prove himself wrong
Editing before I get replies, obviously I'm joking.
I was saying what I said KNOWING I'd get this comment Hahahaha
Thank you so much. I have been feeling like a moron in the meatgrinder trying to figure this out
Thank you for all the info really making the game better!!
Nice vid man! Excellent breakdown and good teaching methodology and demonstration. Appreciated.
I think actual numbers would be better than sliders. It would make it much easier to clearly see the differences in gear.
agreed .....
Would it? There's a reason graphs exist, and that's to convey numbers in a simple manner. They could probably make a mouse-over or a toggle to show numbers, but it's doubtful it'd help you be able to choose between a weapon.
@@TheStoic84 the lines don't mean anything really, all i can see is that one bar is slightly bigger than another. I would much rather have hard numbers. Like this i barely ever feel like a new weapon is an upgrade
green or red bars would be good if u compare weapons
@@MLF4468 You won't notice incremental upgrades, which is what you'll see as you gradually increase item levels. Darktide like Vermintide doesn't use huge numbers like WoW.
If for example, you're doing 110 damage with a 1.1x damage multiplier on a 100 power level item and you upgrade to a 110 power level item that goes to a 1.11x damage multiplier, you're now doing 111 damage. These are the type of incremental upgrades that you get in Darktide.
Darktide, like Vermintide puts the focus on making a variety of weapons and letting the player decide which weapon they like to use.
Thanks for making great Darktide content! Is there a discord for Darktide players? I wish more people used mics.
appreciate the vid. The naming was so frustrating
I’m not entirely sure the rating does increase…I have weapons at 430, curios 85-120…and my store is consistently a max of 82 curios, and 390 weapons.
I have 50 hours, and this was true across 14 consecutive store refreshes yesterday.
Easily the most frustrating part of the gearing thus far.
They soft capped it for the beta. Hopefully tomorrow it's going to be a wild time of discovery!!
@@italianspartacus Hmmm..i have friends getting some stuff at 430-440 out of the store. One has upgraded items to almost 500.
May have bugged past a soft-cap.
We can hope!
OK maybe a dumb question but if Finesse on a MELEE weapon is weakpoint damage does mean I have to actually aim my melee swings for that weak point? Like am I supposed to be specifically slashing at faces as opposed to anywhere else on their body?
Yes! Always! :)
Yes, even with low finesse you do more damage if you stab a dude's face or go for the fleshy bit rather than armor. It is why we all love sweep attacks at head height
7:43 i think ammo dictates how much more magazines you carry instead of the actual rounds inside the mag. Other than that, its an helpful video!
Sometimes it is both.
Ammo bar actually does make a difference in the overall mag, just more noticeable of the weapon has a lot of bullets like the braced infantry gun and the heavy stubbed. Low ammo weapons like shotguns tend to see less of a difference.
Its both
Bruh I want this on revolver so it can get 2 bullets per elite kill again for Veteran.
1 bullet per elite kill feels terrible right now. Since most elites take 2 or 3 headshots to kill minimum.
Okay, so does that mean if I see a 420gs rippergun and i buy that, all my ranged weapons can now be over 420gs or only the ripperguns?
So I have to buy each weapon typ individually ( Knife,Shield,Club etc.?
Thanks for the video, really helpful! One thing that I want to know about this system: I reached lvl 30 on my zealot and I keep getting weapons of higher rating (only rare in the normal shop and purple/Orange in the contract shop). How does it increase? I think if I buy weapons with higher rating, I get even more rating (but I'm not sure). Is there a cap to it? In vermintide it was easy, everytime you open a box you have the chance to get ±10 iLvl from the maximum iLvl item you've get before stopping at 650 (350 from hero level and 300 from items), but here i couldn't find any logic, sometimes i get 350 rating, sometimes 450.
I call them the 3 S’s
Swinging sword icon is a slash
Multiple Arrows is a sweep
Star burst icon is a strike
Also you can push shove enemies into whichever place you want them to stand for testing cleave or AoE
they need to put in actual numbers for better comparison, or put a red bar / green bar overlayed on the currently equiped weapon to quickly tell if it's better or not
Thanks for the guide, but it’s just another release where it’s probably worth coming back in 1 years time.. you know when they’ve finished the game 👍
Ive noticed on the recon lasguns there is a stat labled "collateral". What does this mean and what will a higher collateral do vs a lower collateral?
Thank you for the breakdown sir your gentleman and a scholar and willing to do the work that I am not but I'm grateful that you have done
Hey, first thx for your work and time to come along with stats. Don't get it why Fatshark didn't implement a codex and/or some kind of bestarium -.- ..except they force the rejects to increase brain activitiy.. Anyway, i have question about the weapons rating at the store: If i got it right you have to buy weapons sometimes with the highest score to just keep it in my inventory.
So the game makes weapons with higher rating buyable?
Was already wondering how to increase weapon stats after lvl30 besides Hadron and weapon blessing.
(iam german so english isn't my native language, hope you got my point^^')
And another think comes even in my mind:
Missionscreen - do you (or some of you here) noticed this little imperial eagle like symbol below the mission pictures? What do they standing for? This eagle can have different numbers wings. Got several ideas but i wasn't able to get the reason out of it so far.
from what I gathered, each weapon type has all base stats. If no Bar is shown they are FIXED for that weapon type (all Catachan Mk3 have same block cost/defense). Bars show the range between minimum and Maximum possible Roll of those stats. Each bar goes from 0% to 100%. The power rating is the SUM of all these Bar percentages. you can think of Power rating as points the weapon can spend on those variable stats.
Because we do not have access YET to the Base weapon stat numbers, and can only see the weapon-specific range as percentages, You CANNOT compare different weapons together since they might have different base stats and those stats might have tighter or wider ranges. You can however, competently compare the same weapon type with each other. this is easily seen with ammo.
in the end, only life fire testing will work.
What is really awkward is Cleave Target is a slider. Say you are trying for a low dmg but high Crowd Control build. Cleave Targets Should just be a flat +X targets. Because with a slider, im assuming can be tested, maybe a soft cap. IE maybe having 50% of a bar is adding 2 more enemies per swing, and having a slider around 60% is still only 2 targets, thus making a soft cap of 2 targets @50% and maybe isn't worth getting the extra 10% and instead keep one that has less Cleave Targets but more Cleave Dmg.
That was a VERY informative video. Great work, thumbs up & shared w/ friends.
This dude just made a video at the beach and was like:
"The sun is actually green", points the camera up, "See it looks yellow, which means it's green."
"This stuff on the ground is called blemf", points the camera down, "See it's made of tiny rocks."
"The ocean actually goes away at night", points the camera to the sun soaked sea, "See it's here right now."
You should make an updated version with penetration corrected and the new percentage based stats
Why some weird bars. why not just number we could crunch. How the hell am i suppose to know how much more damage am i making if my damage bar is 2milimiters to the left or to the right, how many targets can i cleave if my bar is 2/3 full as opposed to 1/3 full. God this system is form over matter in its worst possible way.
7:29 - The Ammo value seems to add additional ammo on top of a base value that's the same for every weapon of that type.
i.e. Your gun here might have 70 / 380 if it rolled with 0 ammo stat, which is the absolute minimum base value. If it rolled with the maximum ammo stat it might be 120 / 600 instead. It seems to be increasing a base value by some amount, instead of representing the actual amount... the same rifle wouldn't have 10 / 80 with a very low roll, for example.
I think it may effect the the amount of ammo you spend per shot, too. Maybe? Still learning.
Since the items you can buy update every 60 minutes and I'm done playing for the night just watching shows with the wife.. I feel like I need to log in before bed just to see if I can buy higher item level stuff just so I can potentially buy higher item level stuff when I log in to actually play tomorrow🤔
I can’t wrap my head around why it’s not explained in the game itself. Okay, they are planning to change it, that’s fine. But if the players don’t have any clue how it all works, what are they planning to base their decisions off? This prevents any feedback to even be formed.
So, the higher the rating, the greater the bonus of those bars?
But the overall type(crowd control, assassin etc) also seems to make a big difference in how much damage they deal to different types.
I have to say, I really like how obscure it is, this is what makes games like borderlands boring in the end: you start to look only at the stats...
If the item level determines how much goes into each bar (Stat bars) then why, when you upgrade the weapon and increase the item level, do the stat bars not increase at all? Now that we have numerical values in percentages...you can see without a doubt that NONE of the stat bars get ANY increase when you increase item level.
Holy shit I've been through 3 different youtube "comprehensive guides" for players and not a single one mentions weapon stats. Thank you for this
fastest video maker in the west
Basically means that better weapons aren't really better and are literally cosmetic mostly......the mundane combat of vermintide all over no matter how much better the "gear" nothing really happens.
Penetration is armour reduction. Other than that, all is good. Lasguns have penetration but they don't punch through targets. Bolt guns don't have penetration but can fire through soft cover and targets
I love the game, as I loved Vermintide, but Fatshark really don't know how to make stats and mechanics intuitive to understand.
How about calling the "Damage" stat on weapons "Damage multiplier" or "extra damage"? And maybe give it actual numbers instead of bars? How much more damage to the base damage is a "half full bar"? 1.1? 1.5? 1.2? π?!
Why are the offered weapons in a shop dependant on the highest weapon rating in my inventory? Instead of something that makes sense, like my trust level? Shop owner be like "Sorry I cannot sell u more powerful weapons until you have a little less powerful weapons in your inventory already! Here, buy this 205 weapon and I will have a 206 weapon next time!"
Well f me, now with the release update they included detailed stats and explanations for all weapons. Awesome!
So what does it mean if a particular attribute is not on the weapon? For instance, what happens to your dodge if mobility isn't on the weapon? Is it just reduced to a base distance?
So what I learned is item rating basically does increase damage 😂
Aside of attack type for each hit in combo, there is one more attack type for a weapon overall... That makes me confused, why it's here?
Really wish they used actual numbered stats instead of sodding bars, I basically have to guess what percentage they're going to do.
Thanks for clearing this up, information is so bad about the item stats. I find it odd that there isnt anything in the game that explains this, not even a popup when having the cursor on the stat icon.
Thanks! What about the 3 icons opposite the 'rating'. Have I missed an explanation for these somewhere?!
They're the types of attacks, cleave, overhead strike, and a diagonal slash! :) the third one is the special. Press V and it'll give you a breakdown of the combo for your primary and secondary. For ranged weapons, it tells you if it's semi auto, burst, or full auto
Basically you want to equip the shit with the higher rating number because higher = better.
"item rating is based on the highest rating for that category that you have" so that brought back that bs mechanic. great. easy enough to play around but everyone i tell about it hates it lmao.
I know I’m late to the party … but relentless attacks do more stagger and less damage .. while the other is vice versa
You're not supposed to compare bars between weapon types like this, they are modifiers on the weapons base stats and all weapon types have different base stats.
thanks, that was some much-needed info though i figured out some of it. the part on ammo you just compared to rounds in the clip. you didn't compare to total rounds carried. the one had lower rounds in clip but a higher ammo capacity if i remember right.
Hmm someone just made this same comment but I've seen it affect the clip.. I wonder what it actually is?
Thanks for explaining all this - Fatshark should just pay you for doing their work. :D
Highest I have currently is a 501 rating. I honestly wonder how high we can push it?????????
So the TLDR is that gear score does mean that the overall weapon is better but pay attention to stats to see exactly what your getting.
I have no idea why they insist on this stupid ambiguous system.
Just give us proper data, ffs!
Don’t waste your money on items you don’t use naturally as you level you’ll get higher and higher item ratings so just wait
Can someone tell me what Crowd Control does for the Ogryn weapons?
Wait so you dont need to equip a higher item level weapon for it to count for the store rolls? You only need to have it in your inventory?
I have a weapon with both finesse, and critical damage bonus. So finesse ONLY means critical headshots? And bonus critical damage is for critical body shots? Or all shots? It makes no sense
I believe that means it's even more damage to weak spots :) the crit damage threshold is much higher. Finesse is raw damage to the weak spot, vs crit damage is only in the event of a crit. Does that help?
@@italianspartacus that does make sense. Thank you!
Mobility also affects how fast you use stamina when running
imagine a company not putting a tool tip when you hover over each of the stats
So the sliders are buckets, and the power rating is how much water you have to fill them.
Sounds like I'm listening to a Khan Academy video with your voice lol.
You figured it out. Nice. Thanks for the video
Also your computer is nice
Do you only see those numbers in the Psykhanium, or is there a way to turn then on for normal play?
This is a fan-fucking-tastic video. Thank you for breaking this shit down.
“this is somewhere in between” and then proceeds to do the cleaviest of cleaving heavy attacks
Anyone else bored of this game after only a single day playing it?
It is absurd how cryptic the stats are in this game.
Like wtf is "Power"?
Those tiny little hashmarks mean something?! Jesus.
My brain is only good for recognizing minute details in a video game. Other Than that, I'm hardly above a functioning sentient cup of jello hahahah
@@italianspartacus haha, well particularly in this case, it's an appreciated skillset. Thanks for the helpful videos!
The fact armor doesn't give stat's is horrible end game going to be boring af without more loot
TLDR: Attribute system and itemization is dogshit. If it takes someone making youtube video based on words of community manager in discord to break UI down it means your designers failed at their job miserably.
Hahahaha spasibo bratan
ty
Yea I was like wtf is collateral and all the other stuff and has no description in game.
So i purchased the higest rating melee weapon and ranged weapon, but dindt get any new weapons after a mission (even with a level up).
Any idea what im missing here?
It'll update the shop in the next hour, so from when you posted this, in ten minutes, the shop will have better items in it :)
@@italianspartacus Thx man
So there is "Damage" and "First Target"...until there I thought I understood it.