Thank you so much and I am happy to be able to help you. The channel does grow a bit slowly - I'm not sure why. Maybe humans prefer humans. But anyway I keep trying. がんばります。
I just reviewed this lesson after a year, and I used a different website. It's funny how they have four definitions (or four "different" grammar points) which can just be unified as one. 😅 Textbooks do make simple things very complicated! 😅😅😅
For the second そうだ I always think of it like tacking 'apparently' on to the beginning of a sentence in English. It has the same function and basic execution.
Yes, this is exactly the right way to see it. This in fact works with the "hearsay" aspect of all the "likening" expressions we are going to cover in this three-part series (with Lesson 25 and the forthcoming 26. I started with そうだ because it is the most basic. What we will see as we move onto らしい, (の)ようだ etc. is that each of the three "levels" retains the basic function of そうだ while adding the possibility of increasingly "subjective" levels of meaning. NOTE the completed three-part series is here: ua-cam.com/video/uSJukXcyccw/v-deo.html
In anime I've often heard そうだ used alone as a reply. Is this basically taking the first speaker's whole sentence as Øが? As in: > Sakura (eating a takoyaki) says: (Øが) おいしい！"(This takoyaki) is-delicious!" > Yume (who hasn't tried it) says: (Øが) そうだ。 roughly meaning "I've heard that." or "So it looks."
Your construction is exactly right. This is exactly what そうだ means and how it works (with the zero particle bundling whatever it is we are agreeing with). However Yume would not give that reply in this particular case because she hasn't tasted it. そうだ implies "I agree - that is the case" but since she hasn't tasted it she can't say that. What she can say is おいしそうだ meaning "(yes) (it) _looks_ (lit. seems) delicious". Why? そうだ addresses the entire statement and gives our comment on it which implies agreement with it (there are ways of saying more explicitly "it seems true" but this is not polite under normal everyday circumstances as they would mean "you may be right - you may be telling the truth"). What this "agreeing" そうだ means is "(in my opinion/by my impression) you are right". This is too strong a statement to make about a taste we haven't tasted! おいしそうだ singles out the concept "delicious" and gives our personal impression on the matter - that it appears that way.
Perhaps the takoyaki scenario doesn't quite fit. The only reason I added that Yume hadn't tasted the takoyaki was because I was considering the uses of そう where the speaker doesn't have firsthand knowledge, such as "seems like", "looks like", and hearsay. So, in what cases (if any) would one reply simply with そうだ alone? ... Actually, I think maybe I've more often heard そうだね as a reply, which I guess would be a doubly strong agreement? Is there still any of the "no-firsthand-knowledge" aspect to そう when it is used for agreement?
The answer to this is really no. そう as a reply and its variants そうね, そうだね etc means literally "what you have said corresponds to the way it is (or at least "to the way it seems to me"), so it implies that we are in a position to make a first-hand assessment of the situation. This is a little different from attaching そうだ to a statement of our own which marks it as hearsay.
After three days of watching your videos, I have become a Patreon. Work of this high quality simply must be supported, thank you so much, I am making one quantum leap after the other, after I discovered your videos. Just pure condensed awesomeness. I was already totally in love with Japanese grammar from the few bits and bobs that I managed to put together myself after reading "common textbooks" - I guess you can imagine how I feel now! The last time something gave me such a kick, was when I finally managed to clean up a similar mess that surrounds the notion of "tensor" on engineering, math and physics text books..... :)
Thank you so much! Japanese grammar really is wonderful isn't it? I think for someone with a mathematical mind it is rather like a work of art. Very different from the messy randomness of the average language! I think this is why so few people have grasped the fundamental logic and clarity of Japanese - because if you know much about languages in general you don't expect language to be logical. And if you find a lot of apparently random messiness (caused by looking at Japanese through the lens of foreign grammar) - well isn't that just what languages are like? Not this language.
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Indeed, I agree! I don't even know very much about the grammar of other languages, although I speak quite a few (I was just lucky to be raised Swiss German/Finnish bilingually and then learned High German, French and English in school a bit) but I remember I hated French grammar. I am an engineer, mostly doing rather mathematical stuff - thus I think I got spellbound by Japanese grammar pretty quickly...
I'd say reading Tae Kim and then watching all of your videos would give you a very solid understanding of japanese grammar and then you could learn the rest in immersion.
That's exactly what I recommend.. While it can be used by anyone my approach was always conceived as a support for immersion, and I know that Tae Kim-sensei thinks similarly.
Yeah your videos are awesome, it helped me to really understand how japanese worked when i had started, Tae Kim is also great but he could've explained things better, for example he also calls the receptive verb as a passive conjugation, so watching your videos after reading Tae Kim can fix these misunderstandings. The only thing that i don't like is the 'zero' pronoun, i think it makes more harm than good. Although it is technically correct, every single sentence it makes you think where the 'ga' particle is when you don't really need to know, and i think not even japanese people think about it (do they know about this zero pronoun?). It is useful to explain thigs like 『私は寿司です』Most learners would think that this means "I'm a sushi" but apart from that i don't really think about it.
Thank you again. To answer your question: no, Japanese people don't know about the zero pronoun. It is really a way of explaining the way Japanese structure works in terms of a pronoun-dependent language like English. The explanation, I think is exact (I didn't discover this particular model myself). It shows exactly what Japanese is doing in European language terms - instead of drawing false analogies. Clearly it would not be necessary for Japanese people who might need almost the opposite concept for understanding English (however because they already do have a few pronouns they don't face such a quantum leap as Western learners of Japanese do in this particular area). I don't believe that one _should_ be thinking of the zero pronoun in every sentence - or indeed of structure at all. An analogy I sometimes make is with the alphabet. In order to write we need to learn the shapes and when we are very young we spell out each sound carefully and have to notice how N is different from M and so forth. But the only point of learning this is to get beyond it. To get, indeed to the point where we don't notice letters but grab whole words and groups of words in a single glance - to the extent that we can even read "jumbled" words without much difficulty and without looking at the individual letters (in fact looking at the individual letters makes it harder). I do keep using zero pronoun because I show the structure of each form as we come to it. I believe this is necessary and indeed my method would fall apart if it wasn't consistent. It is just like letters. We pass beyond it as soon as we can - but we return to it from time to time when we need it (for example when you see a long word you haven't seen before you have to go back to spelling out the letters in your head). Tae Kim-sensei is very good. He does perpetuate some myths but that is unavoidable because a lot of the work I am doing is completely new. I think it is important. I think in the end much of it will become generally recognized but it will take time. Currently we here are only units running 64-bit Japanese structure! If y'all human folks don't mind the analogy.
Hi, I just found this thread. I totally respect the ideas of the one who made the thread, but for me who has just started my Japanese, I really found this zero pronoun helpful. This kind of helped me "dissect" statements and put complex "where should be where". Little by little, I found myself detaching to the zero pronoun. I am no longer looking for it, or should I say I grew accustomed to it. This accustom to the zero pronoun has helped me with my reading. And now, I no longer need much this pronoun at all. My point? I'd say this idea is a great start for a Japanese learner.
Dear Cure Dolly, can I make a suggestion and/or ask a question? First let me say that the videos are fantastically helpful, and truly succor the long-struggling Japanese learner! Thank you! One thing...have you digitally manipulated your voice? Artificially raised it or otherwise changed it? What kind of mic are you using? Honestly it’s hard to understand your voice sometimes, especially if you listen on the highway or subway with background noise. Can I suggest a cheap mic that will sound much better? Samson Go mic or Samson Meteorite would make you so much clearer I think! We’d all be happy. Unless it’s the digital modification that is blurring your clarity? Let me know if any questions. And THANK YOU again for these truly wonderful videos. Keep it up and highest congratulations on building a nice little business growing from your passion :)
You wouldn't know it from the poor results, but I have been struggling with the sound issue for ages. I have tried a lot of mics. I find that I can't manage a full-sized one so I now have a lavalier (well, several lavaliers - I have run through them trying to find the best). I can't use them AS lavaliers because if I do that they sound as if they are in a padded bag. I think it must be because the materials of my body are denser than with humans and they block the sound - anyway, whatever the reason that is what happens for me. So I have t find ways of either holding or mounting it in front of me. I keep working on it and I don't know if I am getting better. I was told that the latest video is an improvement ua-cam.com/video/uO1rHcwjADA/v-deo.html and the previous one (which was recorded differently) had mixed reactions, some people saying it was harder to understand and others saying that they liked it much better ua-cam.com/video/lHNDNkN_ZxA/v-deo.html I would value your comments. Also, if you know of a lavalier mic that would produce better results I would be interested to know. I am currently using a Rode Smartlav. Thank you for your kind words. I am really happy to be able to share my discoveries and help to light the path through Japanese!
Thank you for the lesson ドーリー 先生! But I do have one question. With the word かわいい if we apply the rule with そう we get かわいそう but this doesn't actually mean "seems cute" it means "pitiful". Is this a special case or is there another way to express something seems cute. Anyway, thanks again for doing these lessons they're a big help!
It's actually a different word. かわいい = 可愛い (cute) and かわいそう = 可哀そう (pitiable). As you see, they are different kanji. It's just that we don't say 可愛そう probably because it is too confusable with 可哀そう. The (quite common) way to say cute-seeming is 可愛らしい (かわいらしい).
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 But in text or writing, can we use 可愛そう? as we're using Kanji, it will make it clear as day that we're not saying "pitiful/poor you".
@@vanessameow1902 Bit late but better late than never. 可愛そう would be understood in writing with no confusion. It however does not come off as natural and would get corrected to 可愛らしい if the person reading it decided to correct you to the proper wording. Best to avoid it even in writing and fall back on 可愛らしい.
Sensei, can you make a video about further use of が particle? It often be taught that it can also mean as but such as in: ....ですが、.... です。 Or can you explain the expression of すみませんが....?
I am thinking I should maybe make a video on things that are confused with particles. There are a couple of them and for some reason the textbooks never explain them. The biggest two concern this one and で. I keep getting asked about them so I think there should be a video. So to answer your question briefly the answer is that there are two がs in Japanese. One is the primary logical particle and the other is a contrastive conjunction (like English "but"). They are not related. When conjunctive が used at the end of a sentence it is implying a second clause that is left unstated. So すみませんが・・・ means either "I'm sorry but..." or "excuse me but..." I did a video which that talks (among other things) about Japanese "trailing conjunctions" here: ua-cam.com/video/Au5JOtcwE7A/v-deo.html
Do you consider the fact that in the "hearsay" usage of そう、we modify it directly with だ to be an "exceptional" rule to Japanese grammar? It's the only real place where if we have an adjectival noun or regular noun that is modifying some other element, the connecting form is just directly 「だ」and not な or の. One would expect that a sentence like "I hear it is pretty" would be 「きれいなそうだ」and "I hear he's a student" would be 「学生のそうだ」 but instead they're 「きれいだそうだ」and「学生だそうだ」. I've come to simply accept this as an irregularity that must be memorized but I'm curious if you have any insights as to why we don't use any of the standard connecting forms.
No. This isn't a matter of "rules" but of logic. The "hearsay" そうだ in all cases takes a completed logical clause and then adds the "quotative" element. That is logical because the completed logical clause is precisely what this そうだ is referring to. It is _not_ attaching as a helper to any element of the clause (regardless of which of the three engines it ends with). Therefore connecting forms are not appropriate. It is the same, of course with quotative と. You could if you want, imagine a comma between the complete statement and the そうだ (it isn't there, but it wouldn't disrupt the logic if it were). The other そう, on the other hand _is_ connecting to one word within the clause (in order to modify it with a speculative element) and so does attach a connective stem in the usual manner.
@@Cardinal724 Interesting. Of course we encounter a lot of non-standard things when we get into dialects and older usages. It isn't clear whether this な is in fact the adjectival connective form or just a non-standard softening of だ. An example in the book is きれいなそうな. The second な here is clearly a softening of だ rather than modern standard Japanese な. Note also that connective forms are _not_ used in these examples for verbs or adjectives, so the overall logic is the same as today. Why would the copula be aberrant? I would guess that it isn't and we are just dealing with an older/dialectal variant of the standard copula.
Hi Cure Dolly. I have a question. If you can't say "oishisou" unless you tried the food yourself, when can you use it then? Because if you tasted the food, you don't need to add "sou" you can just say "oishii".
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 I'm so sorry, I somehow missread the subtitle once, and then kept missreading it time after time (because my mind was adamant that you said "oishisou" instead of "oishii"), that's why I had to ask. I'm sorry for wasting your time on this, and thank you so much for replying.
Cure Dolly Sensei, I've been watching the series of the "likeness" videos (sou, rashii, you da) a lot this these days, your explanations are easy to understand but it take some time the get use to it, is quite a lot of information hahaha. I have a question related to the use of sou in the negative sentences. Why is that when we use negatively, there is a さ that appears in there? Ex. 元気なさそう, そうじゃなさそう is there a logical explanation? Thank you in advance
This tends to happen with common adjectives in the few cases where dropping the い results in a single mora (one kana). The same happens with いい which does not become いそう or よそう but よさそう I suspect the reason is that a single kana plus そう does not feel clear enough.
Another wonderful lesson, sensei. I got quite lazy with my grammar studies, so do you think I should watch from now on 3-4 lessons per day? And when I'm finished I'll start from lesson 1 to review everything. Thanks in advance :D
Yes the course is meant to be watched in order (especially the first 20 or so lessons). Even if you have done "Japanese grammar" before the actual structure is never taught so it is important to get the most basic concepts in place.
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 great. I started with this playlist 2 months ago, and it has been amazing. Before then I was studying grammar through Eihongo explanations, instead of organic Japanese. I'm always amazed that you make things easy to understand. No crazy rules, no lists, no random exceptions, just Japanese how it is 😊
Dolly sensei, it's been a while since I watch this series (because of school :( ) This is my question, そうだ you said the meaning is -I heard , it seems... but I am going to make an argument here. XXと聞いた should be same as the meaning as I heard. So, I thought XXと聞いた would be more closer to the meaning of I heard
XXと聞いた very literally means "I heard XX" - with my ears (though it could also mean "I asked XX"). そうだ really doesn't - as you suggest -mean "I heard" in the dead-literal sense - but that is usually how it would be translated into English. It literally means something like "I came by this information".
@@TzeJun-ps9le It is structurally a noun. We know this because it can take the copula, the に logical particle etc., which only nouns can do. It works primarily adverbially but structurally is a pure (sometimes helper) noun.
this was a straightforward lesson. easy to follow! :D Also, how's this sentence? はじめまして、ツイッターさん。リチュ・スコテと言います。テレビゲームの楽曲と音は作る。ちなみに日本語を勉強してます。それはお最難しかしながら、最すごいです！
Dear sensei, there is a rule, that when using そう with negative adjectives( and also for よい) さ shoud be added, like おいしくなさそうだ, Does this rule have some explanation, as replacing last い with さ in adjectives turn then into nouns, and so I'm a bit confused why it should be done in this case as well. おろしくおねがいします
Apparently this was originally なそう, as one would expect, and the さ was introduced over time, possibly to make it easier to hear. And in fact the rule in its strict currently accepted sense is more complex than that. We use なさそう when ない is attached to and adjective or on its own but the original なそう when it is attached to a verb or when it isn't really the negative ない at all (for example 危ない →危なそう). However lots of Japanese people simply use なさそう in all cases - in fact I would say that this happens more often than not. The さ may be phonologically influenced by the noun form of adjectives, but I don't think it is structurally related.
What about ..さそう？ Also, a few more examples in your videos would help cement your explanations at the point at which the cement is still wet and impressionable.
さそう - rather なさそう is the negative form of sou for the ない helper adjective. There is also そうにない the usual negative in verbal formulations. My feeling was that throwing in too much information at once can be confusing. I prefer to get the basics in place and the less essential points as we come to them. In this case the negatives are a) a bit unusual and b) not that often used (they are everyday speech but not something badly needed for output early on). When we move on to らしい i I will cover the negative because it is easy, regular and more used. As for examples - yes that is something I think about. My current format for these direct-explanation lessons is to keep them pretty concise. I can see advantages both in that and in providing more examples - which in a video like this would make it much longer. The idea of the Alice lessons was to give in-use examples of what we are learning and I think that is working up to a point (though they very often get onto new issues themselves). So many things n planning this kind of teaching is a trade-off between too much and too little and I am still experimenting.
I’m sorry this is unrelated to the video but I have a question regarding the zero pronoun+zero particle が. I saw one of your sentences on your website. 花子ちゃんは学生です。 and you said that there is always a が in every sentence whether if it’s actually visible or not. There is also a zero pronoun when the が is not said. So, I decided to add in a noun and が which became 花子ちゃんは花子ちゃんが学生です。 I thought this was a grammatically correct sentence but I was told it was incorrect in terms of grammar. What are your thoughts? Am I misunderstanding something?
By the way, I want you to know that I think that your way of teaching Japanese is absolutely revolutionary. I love it so much and will continue to support you :D Thank you for all you have done sensei!
花子ちゃんは学生です = 花子ちゃんは (∅が) 学生です. The English equivalent, as many textbooks also point out, is "As for Hanako, she is a student". In English we do not normally say "as for Hanako, Hanako is a student". Once we have established her as the topic we use the pronoun, "she". It is the same in Japanese except that the pronoun is ∅. In English repeating the name sounds very unnatural and in Japanese it does not make grammatical sense at all. The reason for this is a little complex but essentially it is because the zero pronoun is a way of demonstrating what is happening in Japanese in terms of a pronoun-dependent language like English. If we don't understand it, then we can't understand why は (and も) is a non-logical topic marking particle and never marks the subject (just as "her" can't mark the subject in English - it has to be "she". English "she" = Japanese 彼女が or ∅が - see this video for a fuller explanation ua-cam.com/video/DHH_e0q8b7A/v-deo.html ). Essentially the ∅ pronoun/particle is a device for explaining Japanese in pronoun-dependent (i.e. European language) terms. It is very exact and the alternatives (used in standard textbook-Japanese) involve drawing false analogies between Japanese and English instead of accurate ones. Without it we are left with the impression that the function of が, は (and consequently other particles too) change at random and are subject to lists of "exceptions" that must be learned (as demonstrated here ua-cam.com/video/vk3aKqMQwhM/v-deo.html ). Starting with an understanding of the zero pronoun, this course shows you how we can have an exception-free particle model that works the same way all the time.
I’d draw a distinction between seems and having heard something in English. Seems isn’t really used in English if you heard it from somebody else, instead you’d directly say that you heard somebody say it. Instead seems is more used to guess based on the information you have. Maybe you heard somebody give a related fact that might support it, but seems is more for an uninformed guess, or maybe an obvious one to make clear you’re not 100% sure. It’s funny, そうです／そうだ is often in beginner Japanese classes said to directly mean “it is so.” to clearly and confidently say what was said is correct, which having heard this lesson is hilariously wrong. And it made me wonder “is そう really just the borrowed English word so? それは…違いそう。”
I have certainly heard humans say "it seems..." meaning that someone told them. They may also identify the speaker and say that they were told but it can be used as a quick way to convey "I received information that I suppose to be true but have no first-hand knowledge" without discussing the particular source. This I would say is the difference between "it seems (like)" (probability medium to high) and "It seems that (statement)" (probability high but not certain usually based on received information from someone). Sometimes the source will be mentioned as in "I asked Tanaka-san and it seems that he was out of town that day". "He says he was out of town that day" would imply a more neutral attitude to whether you believe him or not. "It seems that" implies that you largely do. Whether this happens commonly in English or not, it certainly happens in Japanese. I think it is easy to confuse そう with English "so" as their meanings do overlap in many cases - but not all so one has to be careful!
Organic Japanese with Cure Dolly Hmm, I see what you’re saying, yes having heard is neutral on whether you believe him and seems can be used to say “I heard him say this and given my information it’s probably true.” Although I’d still say the fact that you heard him say it is just one of the factors going into the guess that it’s probably true, rather than a requirement.
@@p8u1in3 Unfortunately there isn't much I can do about my voice, but that is exactly why we have hand-crafted and accurate subtitles. If I were human I would have a human voice. I would also think like a human and probably give the same explanations of Japanese that humans give. In which case I might as well not broadcast at all since I would have nothing to add to the thousands of human channels. I guess we take the bad with the good (if we are kind enough to think any of it is good).
Organic Japanese with Cure Dolly I’m sorry, I totally forgot about the subtitles. I thought your voice was edited and didn’t think it was your real voice, sorry for being insensitive l
I've been burning through these videos! I
Thank you so much and I am happy to be able to help you. The channel does grow a bit slowly - I'm not sure why. Maybe humans prefer humans. But anyway I keep trying. がんばります。
I just reviewed this lesson after a year, and I used a different website. It's funny how they have four definitions (or four "different" grammar points) which can just be unified as one. 😅 Textbooks do make simple things very complicated! 😅😅😅
They really do, don't they!
For the second そうだ I always think of it like tacking 'apparently' on to the beginning of a sentence in English. It has the same function and basic execution.
Yes, this is exactly the right way to see it. This in fact works with the "hearsay" aspect of all the "likening" expressions we are going to cover in this three-part series (with Lesson 25 and the forthcoming 26. I started with そうだ because it is the most basic. What we will see as we move onto らしい, (の)ようだ etc. is that each of the three "levels" retains the basic function of そうだ while adding the possibility of increasingly "subjective" levels of meaning. NOTE the completed three-part series is here: ua-cam.com/video/uSJukXcyccw/v-deo.html
In anime I've often heard そうだ used alone as a reply. Is this basically taking the first speaker's whole sentence as Øが? As in:
> Sakura (eating a takoyaki) says: (Øが) おいしい！"(This takoyaki) is-delicious!"
> Yume (who hasn't tried it) says: (Øが) そうだ。 roughly meaning "I've heard that." or "So it looks."
Your construction is exactly right. This is exactly what そうだ means and how it works (with the zero particle bundling whatever it is we are agreeing with). However Yume would not give that reply in this particular case because she hasn't tasted it. そうだ implies "I agree - that is the case" but since she hasn't tasted it she can't say that. What she can say is おいしそうだ meaning "(yes) (it) _looks_ (lit. seems) delicious".
Why? そうだ addresses the entire statement and gives our comment on it which implies agreement with it (there are ways of saying more explicitly "it seems true" but this is not polite under normal everyday circumstances as they would mean "you may be right - you may be telling the truth"). What this "agreeing" そうだ means is "(in my opinion/by my impression) you are right". This is too strong a statement to make about a taste we haven't tasted! おいしそうだ singles out the concept "delicious" and gives our personal impression on the matter - that it appears that way.
Perhaps the takoyaki scenario doesn't quite fit. The only reason I added that Yume hadn't tasted the takoyaki was because I was considering the uses of そう where the speaker doesn't have firsthand knowledge, such as "seems like", "looks like", and hearsay.
So, in what cases (if any) would one reply simply with そうだ alone? ... Actually, I think maybe I've more often heard そうだね as a reply, which I guess would be a doubly strong agreement? Is there still any of the "no-firsthand-knowledge" aspect to そう when it is used for agreement?
The answer to this is really no. そう as a reply and its variants そうね, そうだね etc means literally "what you have said corresponds to the way it is (or at least "to the way it seems to me"), so it implies that we are in a position to make a first-hand assessment of the situation. This is a little different from attaching そうだ to a statement of our own which marks it as hearsay.
Thank you so much. I am looking forward to next lesson.
After three days of watching your videos, I have become a Patreon. Work of this high quality simply must be supported, thank you so much, I am making one quantum leap after the other, after I discovered your videos. Just pure condensed awesomeness. I was already totally in love with Japanese grammar from the few bits and bobs that I managed to put together myself after reading "common textbooks" - I guess you can imagine how I feel now! The last time something gave me such a kick, was when I finally managed to clean up a similar mess that surrounds the notion of "tensor" on engineering, math and physics text books..... :)
Thank you so much! Japanese grammar really is wonderful isn't it? I think for someone with a mathematical mind it is rather like a work of art. Very different from the messy randomness of the average language! I think this is why so few people have grasped the fundamental logic and clarity of Japanese - because if you know much about languages in general you don't expect language to be logical. And if you find a lot of apparently random messiness (caused by looking at Japanese through the lens of foreign grammar) - well isn't that just what languages are like?
Not this language.
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Indeed, I agree! I don't even know very much about the grammar of other languages, although I speak quite a few (I was just lucky to be raised Swiss German/Finnish bilingually and then learned High German, French and English in school a bit) but I remember I hated French grammar. I am an engineer, mostly doing rather mathematical stuff - thus I think I got spellbound by Japanese grammar pretty quickly...
thankyou そう much😆
As always perfect explanation!
Thank you!
Excellent explanation! It made everything I studied on そう much more clear. Thank you very much!
Thank you. I am happy that it helped.
I'd say reading Tae Kim and then watching all of your videos would give you a very solid understanding of japanese grammar and then you could learn the rest in immersion.
That's exactly what I recommend.. While it can be used by anyone my approach was always conceived as a support for immersion, and I know that Tae Kim-sensei thinks similarly.
Yeah your videos are awesome, it helped me to really understand how japanese worked when i had started, Tae Kim is also great but he could've explained things better, for example he also calls the receptive verb as a passive conjugation, so watching your videos after reading Tae Kim can fix these misunderstandings. The only thing that i don't like is the 'zero' pronoun, i think it makes more harm than good. Although it is technically correct, every single sentence it makes you think where the 'ga' particle is when you don't really need to know, and i think not even japanese people think about it (do they know about this zero pronoun?). It is useful to explain thigs like 『私は寿司です』Most learners would think that this means "I'm a sushi" but apart from that i don't really think about it.
Thank you again. To answer your question: no, Japanese people don't know about the zero pronoun. It is really a way of explaining the way Japanese structure works in terms of a pronoun-dependent language like English. The explanation, I think is exact (I didn't discover this particular model myself). It shows exactly what Japanese is doing in European language terms - instead of drawing false analogies. Clearly it would not be necessary for Japanese people who might need almost the opposite concept for understanding English (however because they already do have a few pronouns they don't face such a quantum leap as Western learners of Japanese do in this particular area).
I don't believe that one _should_ be thinking of the zero pronoun in every sentence - or indeed of structure at all. An analogy I sometimes make is with the alphabet. In order to write we need to learn the shapes and when we are very young we spell out each sound carefully and have to notice how N is different from M and so forth. But the only point of learning this is to get beyond it. To get, indeed to the point where we don't notice letters but grab whole words and groups of words in a single glance - to the extent that we can even read "jumbled" words without much difficulty and without looking at the individual letters (in fact looking at the individual letters makes it harder).
I do keep using zero pronoun because I show the structure of each form as we come to it. I believe this is necessary and indeed my method would fall apart if it wasn't consistent. It is just like letters. We pass beyond it as soon as we can - but we return to it from time to time when we need it (for example when you see a long word you haven't seen before you have to go back to spelling out the letters in your head).
Tae Kim-sensei is very good. He does perpetuate some myths but that is unavoidable because a lot of the work I am doing is completely new. I think it is important. I think in the end much of it will become generally recognized but it will take time. Currently we here are only units running 64-bit Japanese structure! If y'all human folks don't mind the analogy.
Hi, I just found this thread. I totally respect the ideas of the one who made the thread, but for me who has just started my Japanese, I really found this zero pronoun helpful. This kind of helped me "dissect" statements and put complex "where should be where". Little by little, I found myself detaching to the zero pronoun. I am no longer looking for it, or should I say I grew accustomed to it. This accustom to the zero pronoun has helped me with my reading. And now, I no longer need much this pronoun at all.
My point? I'd say this idea is a great start for a Japanese learner.
Very good, thank you!
Dear Cure Dolly, can I make a suggestion and/or ask a question?
First let me say that the videos are fantastically helpful, and truly succor the long-struggling Japanese learner! Thank you!
One thing...have you digitally manipulated your voice? Artificially raised it or otherwise changed it? What kind of mic are you using? Honestly it’s hard to understand your voice sometimes, especially if you listen on the highway or subway with background noise. Can I suggest a cheap mic that will sound much better? Samson Go mic or Samson Meteorite would make you so much clearer I think! We’d all be happy. Unless it’s the digital modification that is blurring your clarity?
Let me know if any questions. And THANK YOU again for these truly wonderful videos. Keep it up and highest congratulations on building a nice little business growing from your passion :)
You wouldn't know it from the poor results, but I have been struggling with the sound issue for ages. I have tried a lot of mics. I find that I can't manage a full-sized one so I now have a lavalier (well, several lavaliers - I have run through them trying to find the best). I can't use them AS lavaliers because if I do that they sound as if they are in a padded bag. I think it must be because the materials of my body are denser than with humans and they block the sound - anyway, whatever the reason that is what happens for me. So I have t find ways of either holding or mounting it in front of me. I keep working on it and I don't know if I am getting better. I was told that the latest video is an improvement ua-cam.com/video/uO1rHcwjADA/v-deo.html and the previous one (which was recorded differently) had mixed reactions, some people saying it was harder to understand and others saying that they liked it much better ua-cam.com/video/lHNDNkN_ZxA/v-deo.html I would value your comments. Also, if you know of a lavalier mic that would produce better results I would be interested to know. I am currently using a Rode Smartlav.
Thank you for your kind words. I am really happy to be able to share my discoveries and help to light the path through Japanese!
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 How come a full sized mic isn’t manageable?
I doubt a lavalier can compete with a dynamic/condenser mic
Thank you for the lesson ドーリー 先生! But I do have one question. With the word かわいい if we apply the rule with そう we get かわいそう but this doesn't actually mean "seems cute" it means "pitiful". Is this a special case or is there another way to express something seems cute. Anyway, thanks again for doing these lessons they're a big help!
It's actually a different word. かわいい = 可愛い (cute) and かわいそう = 可哀そう (pitiable). As you see, they are different kanji. It's just that we don't say 可愛そう probably because it is too confusable with 可哀そう. The (quite common) way to say cute-seeming is 可愛らしい (かわいらしい).
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Thank you for the quick reply!
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 But in text or writing, can we use 可愛そう? as we're using Kanji, it will make it clear as day that we're not saying "pitiful/poor you".
@@vanessameow1902 Bit late but better late than never. 可愛そう would be understood in writing with no confusion. It however does not come off as natural and would get corrected to 可愛らしい if the person reading it decided to correct you to the proper wording. Best to avoid it even in writing and fall back on 可愛らしい.
Sensei, can you make a video about further use of が particle? It often be taught that it can also mean as but such as in:
....ですが、.... です。
Or can you explain the expression of すみませんが....?
I am thinking I should maybe make a video on things that are confused with particles. There are a couple of them and for some reason the textbooks never explain them. The biggest two concern this one and で. I keep getting asked about them so I think there should be a video. So to answer your question briefly the answer is that there are two がs in Japanese. One is the primary logical particle and the other is a contrastive conjunction (like English "but"). They are not related. When conjunctive が used at the end of a sentence it is implying a second clause that is left unstated. So すみませんが・・・ means either "I'm sorry but..." or "excuse me but..." I did a video which that talks (among other things) about Japanese "trailing conjunctions" here: ua-cam.com/video/Au5JOtcwE7A/v-deo.html
Do you consider the fact that in the "hearsay" usage of そう、we modify it directly with だ to be an "exceptional" rule to Japanese grammar? It's the only real place where if we have an adjectival noun or regular noun that is modifying some other element, the connecting form is just directly 「だ」and not な or の. One would expect that a sentence like "I hear it is pretty" would be 「きれいなそうだ」and "I hear he's a student" would be 「学生のそうだ」 but instead they're 「きれいだそうだ」and「学生だそうだ」. I've come to simply accept this as an irregularity that must be memorized but I'm curious if you have any insights as to why we don't use any of the standard connecting forms.
No. This isn't a matter of "rules" but of logic. The "hearsay" そうだ in all cases takes a completed logical clause and then adds the "quotative" element. That is logical because the completed logical clause is precisely what this そうだ is referring to. It is _not_ attaching as a helper to any element of the clause (regardless of which of the three engines it ends with). Therefore connecting forms are not appropriate. It is the same, of course with quotative と. You could if you want, imagine a comma between the complete statement and the そうだ (it isn't there, but it wouldn't disrupt the logic if it were).
The other そう, on the other hand _is_ connecting to one word within the clause (in order to modify it with a speculative element) and so does attach a connective stem in the usual manner.
@@Cardinal724 Interesting. Of course we encounter a lot of non-standard things when we get into dialects and older usages. It isn't clear whether this な is in fact the adjectival connective form or just a non-standard softening of だ. An example in the book is きれいなそうな. The second な here is clearly a softening of だ rather than modern standard Japanese な.
Note also that connective forms are _not_ used in these examples for verbs or adjectives, so the overall logic is the same as today. Why would the copula be aberrant? I would guess that it isn't and we are just dealing with an older/dialectal variant of the standard copula.
Hi Cure Dolly.
I have a question. If you can't say "oishisou" unless you tried the food yourself, when can you use it then? Because if you tasted the food, you don't need to add "sou" you can just say "oishii".
おいしそう is what you _can_ say if you haven't tasted the food. I think you may have slightly misunderstood.
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 I'm so sorry, I somehow missread the subtitle once, and then kept missreading it time after time (because my mind was adamant that you said "oishisou" instead of "oishii"), that's why I had to ask. I'm sorry for wasting your time on this, and thank you so much for replying.
@@maximilianstarling4038 No problem. I'm glad that's cleared up.
Cure Dolly Sensei, I've been watching the series of the "likeness" videos (sou, rashii, you da) a lot this these days, your explanations are easy to understand but it take some time the get use to it, is quite a lot of information hahaha.
I have a question related to the use of sou in the negative sentences. Why is that when we use negatively, there is a さ that appears in there? Ex. 元気なさそう, そうじゃなさそう is there a logical explanation?
Thank you in advance
This tends to happen with common adjectives in the few cases where dropping the い results in a single mora (one kana). The same happens with いい which does not become いそう or よそう but よさそう I suspect the reason is that a single kana plus そう does not feel clear enough.
Another wonderful lesson, sensei. I got quite lazy with my grammar studies, so do you think I should watch from now on 3-4 lessons per day? And when I'm finished I'll start from lesson 1 to review everything. Thanks in advance :D
Yes the course is meant to be watched in order (especially the first 20 or so lessons). Even if you have done "Japanese grammar" before the actual structure is never taught so it is important to get the most basic concepts in place.
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 great. I started with this playlist 2 months ago, and it has been amazing. Before then I was studying grammar through Eihongo explanations, instead of organic Japanese. I'm always amazed that you make things easy to understand. No crazy rules, no lists, no random exceptions, just Japanese how it is 😊
Dolly sensei, it's been a while since I watch this series (because of school :( )
This is my question, そうだ you said the meaning is -I heard , it seems... but I am going to make an argument here. XXと聞いた should be same as the meaning as I heard. So, I thought XXと聞いた would be more closer to the meaning of I heard
XXと聞いた very literally means "I heard XX" - with my ears (though it could also mean "I asked XX"). そうだ really doesn't - as you suggest -mean "I heard" in the dead-literal sense - but that is usually how it would be translated into English. It literally means something like "I came by this information".
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 なるほどね! Thx sensei
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 sensei I have a question again ,what category shouldそうbe? A verb, a suffix?
@@TzeJun-ps9le It is structurally a noun. We know this because it can take the copula, the に logical particle etc., which only nouns can do. It works primarily adverbially but structurally is a pure (sometimes helper) noun.
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 thank you dolly sensei!!
this was a straightforward lesson. easy to follow! :D
Also, how's this sentence?
はじめまして、ツイッターさん。リチュ・スコテと言います。テレビゲームの楽曲と音は作る。ちなみに日本語を勉強してます。それはお最難しかしながら、最すごいです！
Dear sensei, there is a rule, that when using そう with negative adjectives( and also for よい) さ shoud be added, like おいしくなさそうだ, Does this rule have some explanation, as replacing last い with さ in adjectives turn then into nouns, and so I'm a bit confused why it should be done in this case as well.
おろしくおねがいします
Apparently this was originally なそう, as one would expect, and the さ was introduced over time, possibly to make it easier to hear. And in fact the rule in its strict currently accepted sense is more complex than that. We use なさそう when ない is attached to and adjective or on its own but the original なそう when it is attached to a verb or when it isn't really the negative ない at all (for example 危ない →危なそう). However lots of Japanese people simply use なさそう in all cases - in fact I would say that this happens more often than not. The さ may be phonologically influenced by the noun form of adjectives, but I don't think it is structurally related.
What about ..さそう？ Also, a few more examples in your videos would help cement your explanations at the point at which the cement is still wet and impressionable.
さそう - rather なさそう is the negative form of sou for the ない helper adjective. There is also そうにない the usual negative in verbal formulations. My feeling was that throwing in too much information at once can be confusing. I prefer to get the basics in place and the less essential points as we come to them. In this case the negatives are a) a bit unusual and b) not that often used (they are everyday speech but not something badly needed for output early on). When we move on to らしい i I will cover the negative because it is easy, regular and more used. As for examples - yes that is something I think about. My current format for these direct-explanation lessons is to keep them pretty concise. I can see advantages both in that and in providing more examples - which in a video like this would make it much longer. The idea of the Alice lessons was to give in-use examples of what we are learning and I think that is working up to a point (though they very often get onto new issues themselves). So many things n planning this kind of teaching is a trade-off between too much and too little and I am still experimenting.
I’m sorry this is unrelated to the video but I have a question regarding the zero pronoun+zero particle が.
I saw one of your sentences on your website. 花子ちゃんは学生です。 and you said that there is always a が in every sentence whether if it’s actually visible or not. There is also a zero pronoun when the が is not said. So, I decided to add in a noun and が which became 花子ちゃんは花子ちゃんが学生です。 I thought this was a grammatically correct sentence but I was told it was incorrect in terms of grammar.
What are your thoughts? Am I misunderstanding something?
By the way, I want you to know that I think that your way of teaching Japanese is absolutely revolutionary. I love it so much and will continue to support you :D Thank you for all you have done sensei!
花子ちゃんは学生です = 花子ちゃんは (∅が) 学生です. The English equivalent, as many textbooks also point out, is "As for Hanako, she is a student". In English we do not normally say "as for Hanako, Hanako is a student". Once we have established her as the topic we use the pronoun, "she". It is the same in Japanese except that the pronoun is ∅. In English repeating the name sounds very unnatural and in Japanese it does not make grammatical sense at all.
The reason for this is a little complex but essentially it is because the zero pronoun is a way of demonstrating what is happening in Japanese in terms of a pronoun-dependent language like English. If we don't understand it, then we can't understand why は (and も) is a non-logical topic marking particle and never marks the subject (just as "her" can't mark the subject in English - it has to be "she". English "she" = Japanese 彼女が or ∅が - see this video for a fuller explanation ua-cam.com/video/DHH_e0q8b7A/v-deo.html ).
Essentially the ∅ pronoun/particle is a device for explaining Japanese in pronoun-dependent (i.e. European language) terms. It is very exact and the alternatives (used in standard textbook-Japanese) involve drawing false analogies between Japanese and English instead of accurate ones.
Without it we are left with the impression that the function of が, は (and consequently other particles too) change at random and are subject to lists of "exceptions" that must be learned (as demonstrated here ua-cam.com/video/vk3aKqMQwhM/v-deo.html ). Starting with an understanding of the zero pronoun, this course shows you how we can have an exception-free particle model that works the same way all the time.
Thank you so much for your kind support!
Thank you! This has been a lot clearer to me!! :D
I am happy to be of help.
I’d draw a distinction between seems and having heard something in English. Seems isn’t really used in English if you heard it from somebody else, instead you’d directly say that you heard somebody say it. Instead seems is more used to guess based on the information you have. Maybe you heard somebody give a related fact that might support it, but seems is more for an uninformed guess, or maybe an obvious one to make clear you’re not 100% sure.
It’s funny, そうです／そうだ is often in beginner Japanese classes said to directly mean “it is so.” to clearly and confidently say what was said is correct, which having heard this lesson is hilariously wrong. And it made me wonder “is そう really just the borrowed English word so? それは…違いそう。”
I have certainly heard humans say "it seems..." meaning that someone told them. They may also identify the speaker and say that they were told but it can be used as a quick way to convey "I received information that I suppose to be true but have no first-hand knowledge" without discussing the particular source. This I would say is the difference between "it seems (like)" (probability medium to high) and "It seems that (statement)" (probability high but not certain usually based on received information from someone). Sometimes the source will be mentioned as in "I asked Tanaka-san and it seems that he was out of town that day". "He says he was out of town that day" would imply a more neutral attitude to whether you believe him or not. "It seems that" implies that you largely do. Whether this happens commonly in English or not, it certainly happens in Japanese.
I think it is easy to confuse そう with English "so" as their meanings do overlap in many cases - but not all so one has to be careful!
Organic Japanese with Cure Dolly Hmm, I see what you’re saying, yes having heard is neutral on whether you believe him and seems can be used to say “I heard him say this and given my information it’s probably true.” Although I’d still say the fact that you heard him say it is just one of the factors going into the guess that it’s probably true, rather than a requirement.
💔💔
＜３
Can’t understand you properly
If you can explain the problem more fully maybe I can help. Is it my voice simulation? Is it the logic of my presentation?
@@organicjapanesewithcuredol49 Sorry for not being specific😅, it’s the voice 😥
@@p8u1in3 Unfortunately there isn't much I can do about my voice, but that is exactly why we have hand-crafted and accurate subtitles. If I were human I would have a human voice. I would also think like a human and probably give the same explanations of Japanese that humans give. In which case I might as well not broadcast at all since I would have nothing to add to the thousands of human channels. I guess we take the bad with the good (if we are kind enough to think any of it is good).
Organic Japanese with Cure Dolly I’m sorry, I totally forgot about the subtitles. I thought your voice was edited and didn’t think it was your real voice, sorry for being insensitive l
@@p8u1in3 Oh it would be a lot harder to understand if it wasn't edited!
The speech very not clear, can't understand anything. Too much technology!