The Truth About Seasoning Cast Iron (According to Science)
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2021
- Science based approach to seasoning cast iron cookware.
Welcome to Out There With Dan. Here we talk about cultivating an outdoors lifestyle as a life-long mission.
The title of this video is "The Truth About Seasoning Cast Iron (According to Science)"
#CastIron #CampfireCooking #CampOven
**Website**
www.OutThereWithDan.com
Mentioned in this video:
- Video on Borough Furnace (Eater UA-cam channel) -
• How Cast Iron Pans Are...
- Borough Furnace and Borough Furnace Seasoning Recommendations -
boroughfurnace.com/
boroughfurnace.com/pages/care...
- Sheryl Canter's Blog -
sherylcanter.com/wordpress/201...
- Other supporting information for additional reading -
www.cookingforengineers.com/ar...
firesciencereviews.springerop...
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
www.nature.com/articles/097269b0
Watch more videos here:
1) RESTORING ANTIQUE BILLY
• Restoring Antique Bill...
2) FIREPIT RIBEYE STEAK RECIPE
• RIBEYE Steak on the FI...
3) FOLDING FIRE PIT TIPS
• Camp Fire Tips for Fol...
Dan is an outdoors enthusiast from Melbourne, Australia. His video creations are about Camping, Overlanding, and Adventure Cooking and he aims to assist you on your own journey 'Getting Out There'.
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Without pretending to understand all the technical detail...The science based approach is to achieve a hard polymerised layer of dried oil, and the best way to do this is start with an oil high in polyunsaturated fats (especially Omega 3 Alpha-Linolenic Acid (ALA)), and heat it over its smoke point temperature until degradation and oxidation chemical reactions lead to a crosslinked solid material (hard dried layer) left behind which is bonded to the cast iron. - Авто та транспорт
This! This is it. This is the best video on youtube about seasoning cast iron. I've watched a ton of videos and was fairly familiar about the steps for seasoning with flax oil, but I've never before seen someone properly explain the polymerization process. Specifically that the cast iron *does* need to be above the smoking point, but not so high that it completely burns off. Very well done. I hope this gets a ton more views.
Thanks very much mate. I appreciate the kind words. Best wishes on your seasoning journey! 😬
Gday mate. I don’t know why this video hasn’t been viewed more than it has but I guess it’s because there is a lot of videos done on seasoning cast-iron. That said I think this was the best one I have seen on seasoning cast iron. The effort and research you put in to your videos, mate, make them really enjoyable and educational to watch. Keep up the awesome work.
This is a really uplifting comment. Thanks very much Jason. Glad you enjoyed it. The audience is growing slowly, and I'm learning at the same time with each video I'm making. It's really rewarding. Hopefully the video snow balls over time - I think it will. Glad to have you here :D
I agree, 3 coats into my cast iron skillet with this method and it's working a treat, can't wait to get to use it.
I searched "polymerization cast iron" on UA-cam and your video was the first result. Glad it was! I now feel like an expert on the subject matter! 😎 Great video my friend!
Hi r/Mr Redder - please forgive me for the one month turn around reply time. Thanks heaps for watching and I'm glad you got something out of it. If you are still on a knowledge hunt, check out a video by Jed at Cook Culture channel, title "Why ALL non-stick pans will wear out: I spoke with a Polymer Chemist" - this supports my outlined scientific reasoning to how flaxseed oil works best, but the video does not cover why a certain oil is better than another (ie. why would canola oil or grapeseed oil be better than flaxseed?). I just had a look at your channel - looks like you are having some fun! Best wishes mate
Done my own research and just cross referencing some info.
So glad you clarified it is a layer of plastic, not dried oil.
You want the oil molecules to energise enough to form radicals that will try to stabilise itself by binding to other molecules, but not too hot that it pyrolyses into essentially ‘wood gas (smoke)’, and yes, char - that can further burn into carbon dioxide and essentially disappear.
Also, there’s a lot of myth about chemical toxicity. Toxicity would imply some form of chemical induced poisoning or damage of the body system.
The visible smoke you see is made of pyrolyses hydrocarbon that manage to vaporise but are still big enough to be visible. If it’s visible, it is too big to be absorbed through your tissue cell walls
They would instead accumulate in the respiratory tract, and be cleared through mucus excretion.
The more concerning bits would be invisible, and would react with other free radicals quite rapidly to terminate the process. Free radicals are far more concerning to our atmospheric ozone layer than to our own body tissues as we have lots of water to neutralise free radicals.
The problem with flaxseed oil is that it has a lot of oxygen molecules incorporated into it,a structure. Sure it can form a good hard layer to protect the iron from rusting quickly, but the oxygen molecules are incorporated into hydroxyl groups when it is completely saturated (this is essentially it’s most stable state and will occur with time and exposure to the elements).
The hydroxyl groups can make it hydrophilic, which means things can stick to it from a macroscopic POV.
This means if we cook food on it, small pores will allow water molecules and hence protein molecules to seep into crevices and “stick”. This does not equate to the food molecules forming chemical bonds with the surface, but it does result in less non-stick property.
If we look at industry perfected non-stick, teflon uses polyethylene, in a saturated polymer. No oxygen, no hydroxyl group.
Therefore, we shouldn’t worry about drying, but about nonstick when it comes to the top most layer of the seasoning.
Therefore, for the top most layer, we should go back to using non-drying oils to form the polymer layer (as drying oils contain lots of oxygen molecules that made them unstable in the first place and prone to oxidising). The more saturated the hydrocarbon, and the longer it is, the more non-stick/teflon like the top layer would be.
From chemistry, we know that longer hydrocarbon molecules results in more viscous states, same with saturation.
From here, we can conclude that the top most layer should be formed with a fat that solidifies at room temperature. This leaves us with lard or butter.
Lard is more saturated than butter hence more solid at room temp, therefore, lard would be the ideal fat to use to form the top most surface polymer.
Hello Sir, apologies for the delay. I needed to take a short break. Your presented argument for the top layer being different seems very reasonable, thanks so much for sharing your obviously academic approach to the topic. The process shown in video is still performing strong for me - I am careful not to char or burn food on the surface - but I will consider a lard 'top layer' in the future. Happy researching. Happy cooking. Cheers.🙏
I watched for the science. I subscribed for the key advice to use flaxseed oil
Thanks mate! Glad you got something out of it. Welcome Aboard!
Great video! There is so much anecdotal knowledge out there, it's really nice to see someone actually do the research. This is really helpful. Thank you for sharing this information! This deserves more views. Best wishes from Germany.
Thanks Felix - You are welcome.. Glad you found it useful and appreciate the encouragement! Best wishes back to you from Aus!😬
This was the most excellent video of this subject
Thanks Jack. Glad you found it useful! Cheers
This video deserves much more love
Glad you thought it was worthwhile! Thanks for watching😬
Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful! Cheers Stephen
Science with Dan! Another great vid mate
Cheers Mick!
I’ve looked for a long time for this video…thank you!
Dr Strange -, there is certainly a lot of misinformation out there. Thanks for watching mate, glad it was useful. Best wishes!
I got into cast a few years ago and only bought old iron. Obviously it all needed to be completely reworked. I found basically this same method also and it is by far the best method to season cast iron. Great video and good scientific but not too complicated explanation.
Hey Thomas, Thanks for the feedback mate its really great to get this assurance people are finding my videos enjoyable or useful. Got any tips or advice in return? Cheers
Amazing ❤
Great vid! Thanks from Hong Kong ❤
You are welcome Heidi! Appreciate you watching and Thanks from 'Downunder'. Best of luck with your cast iron seasoning!
Really good job man!
Thanks heaps! Good luck :D
I wish someone would test sunflower oil, as from my experience it worked great on first try as a beginner and it has a sheen, all other oils are really expensive and rare here
Hi Alex. Don't overthink it. Sounds like you are on a winner - if it's working for you, don't get caught up with all the hype. Just get on with making some delicious meals 😁
@@OTWD This is the greatest advice, i did tend to overthink it
Although my seasoning did chip a bit in a week of cooking almost everyday but it might be due to the dents of the pan itself
So seasoning is a varnish just like tung oil and linseed oil that eventually hardens on wood. But at seasoning temperatures even more stable oils harden (polymerize and crosslink into a varnish). And importantly, it happens much faster.
I agree with this reasoning!
I think canola oil is just fine, just bake at slightly lower temp eg 200C. Also I use an old rag to wipe the oil - it stays with the gear and is used solely for this purpose. No flecks of paper from paper towel.
Glad that has worked for you. Happy cooking!
Yay polymer science!!
Thanks Vicky! Nothing like a some good ol'fashion hatchet simplified DIY science :D
Hello Dan from Wisconsin. I’ve really enjoyed your videos! I just picked up a new Dutch oven and plan to season it just like you did. How has yours held up? Have you had a chance to use/test it out? Keep up the good work!
Hi Josh, thanks so much for watching mate. Glad you enjoyed. I've heard the landscape of Wisconsin is very beautiful. My oven has held up great. Done a few stews and curries. Will do a cooking vid with it in a few months time and talk about how its going. Be patient with it, and you'll get a great result. Best of luck!
I recently switched to carbon steel pans. You season them the same way. The longer you use them the better they get. I love these pans. 👍
Despite making this video and going down this rabbit hole - I actually do most of my cooking on a carbon steel pan - it's an Aussie made 'Bedourie oven'. It's different to cooking on cast iron but the pros outweigh the cons for sure. Sounds like you reached the same conclusion. Thanks for sharing mate! PS. Keep making more videos !!😁
Great video. Found the article you referenced and read it thoroughly. Couldn't quite wrap my head around your reasoning to do that outside, versus in your house and just opening some windows. Surely lighting charcoal exposes you to the same amount of free radicals, irrespective of whether or not you are outdoors?
Hi Dustin, glad you appreciated the video. The article was an interesting read wasn't it? Thanks for calling out my pretty average explanation ... Ventilation in our house isn't great, and neither is the fan extraction in the kitchen)- If I had better ventilation inside I would have done it inside. Didn't want to put my daughter at risk, or kick them out of the house whilst I performed this science experiment! Kind of like using aerosol paint inside - you probably could do it, but its also probably always safer outside. In regards to comparing with cooking charcoal, I believe carbon monoxide is the main risk there (which is why there are warnings to use charcoal outside only). I use charcoal all the time - hopefully not shortening my life too much :D Atleast outside you can take a few steps upwind and the risks are mitigated. Thanks for watching mate. Let me know if you have any tips in return for cast iron. Cheers
Hey Dan, have you done any more pans besides your Dutch oven? I have a few cast iron pans, and I find that my newer Lodge pans take seasoning alright, but my 15” antique cast iron seems to grab and hold seasoning much better. It looks like it was machined or smoothed out after casting, or maybe just became smooth over the decades (I think it’s 60-80 years old), and it’s noticeably easier to season and to cook on.
Have you noticed any difference between seasoning smooth vs rougher pans?
Hi Nicholas, please forgive me replying two weeks after your comment. I've had to put the channel efforts on hold - we welcomed our son into the world on Saturday and I've been naturally pre-occupied. I've only seasoned this one dutch oven using this method. I've been thinking about your question. Most cast iron is cast in sand moulds, so you get a fairly rough and cheap finish straight out of a mould. I'm sure sand grain size and uniformity plays a role in smoothening the piece straight from the mould, but I gather its not economical to manufacturers to optimise the surface out of the mould. A smooth surface (by touch) comes from secondary processing (grinding, linishing, etc).This extra step is what sets apart cheap cast iron and more expensive cast iron cookware. At a macro level (by touch and feel), I do not think the roughness should have an impact on how well the seasoning layer bonds - although it probably influences how resilient it is to abrasion/cleaning (smoother the better- imagine a scourer taking off the peaks of the rough surface when cleaning ). More rough cast iron (as discussed usually cheaper also) generally comes as 'pre-seasoned'- and usually this implies a cheap wax coating or similar, and not a seasoning in the way I have spoken about. This is marketed as seasoning, but its essentially a coating to stop it rusting before you buy it in a store - and nothing more. This coating, unless totally removed MAY interfere with the layer of hard dryng oil seasoning one applies later. So may I suggest sanding/grinding/polishing back the cast iron until you have a fresh reactive surface, and start again. So to summarise, there should not be an intrinsic difference in the effectiveness of seasoning considering the surface roughness alone, however a rougher surface may indicate more commerical manufacturing techniques (coatings) that could interfere with a (more expensive) manual seasoning like flaxseed oil. I'm hunting for a pan/skillet, and will most definitely report back once I have a bit more experience to share. Good luck mate. Let me know if you have found any more juicy info. Cheers. Dan
Great video. Exactly what I had been looking for after also having been hooked to the subject. On another note, I think the background music is a bit too loud!
Hi Ola, Thanks for watching. Glad I could consolidate some information for you. And I appreciate the feedback about the music :) Best wishes.
Hello Dan. Great video, thank you! I have a question: I oiled a cast iron pan maybe too much and “coocked” at a too low temperature, and I ended up with a very sticky surface with, I’d say, a “dripping finish” on the outside of the pan.
What can I do now to recover it? Can I leave it in the hoven/kettle at 450/500F for an hour? Will the finish come out smooth? I’m very new to seasoning cast iron.
Any suggestion will help. Thank you!
Hi Marco. Sorry for taking so long to reply mate. Thanks heaps for watching and taking time to comment with your question. Did you manage to fix it? If I were you, I would start again - clean it with something lightly abrasive, try to get a fresh, clean, smooth surface to work with, and start again, layering carefully one bit at a time. I havent been able to recover in the situation you have described, and it will definately not last as long cooking - so best to accept and start again! Maybe I am wrong though and you were able to salvage it! Let me know. Cheers, Dan
Firstly, thank you for making this video!! I have a question. Once you have created a good polymer layer, can you then expose the cast iron pan to very high heat? Like for searing stakes. Or will that damage the polymer seasoning?
Hello! Thanks for watching, and you are welcome. I have heated mine directly in contact with hot hardwood charcoal and nothing bad has happened yet. You would require oxygen reaching the bare cast iron to interrupt the adhesion of the polymer-like layer. So as long as you are patient and get good coverage - go nuts! Interested to here how it goes. On a related note, soaps and detergents wont affect the layer (the 'dont use soap on cast iron' theory does not appear to be based on any scientific grounding - but any abrasion will damage the seasoning. Use a cloth, and be very gentle if you need to use anything more than that to scrub spots on the surface. Cheers, Dan
This is possibly the most sussinct explanation of evidence based cast iron care
Glad you found it useful, Laura. Thanks heaps for watching!
Hello from California!
Thanks for the great video.
I have a few questions:
1. If you apply to high a heat, the flax seed oil can blacken and fall off. Is this just during the seasoning process or forever?
2. After seasoning well with 5 coats, I have heard scraping and soap are fine because the polymerization is hard and won't be harmed. Is this true?
Thank you!
Kelly
Hi Kelly, Thanks so much for the kind comment! I've been to LA and Monterey CA, beautiful place. Its great to reach folks on the other side of the world :) 1) much of the black gross stuff will come off immediately (noticeable when you rinse after seasoning), but any seasoning left will probably be weakened/compromised, so will probably leach out/flake off onto your food when cooking. If I were you in this case, I would cut my loses, rub back to bare/fresh surface and start again (trying a lower heat). 2) Soap will not hurt it, though I would be gentle with scraping but you can be reasonable - check out this product on amazon "Tobepico Cast Iron Cleaner" Its hard, but not scratchy - so its ideal to use gently on seasoning. Good luck!
If your oil flakes off, you applied too much oil. Take a cloth rag and wipe the pot again - paper towels aren’t absorbent enough.
You want the oil to be almost gone. And you want to apply the oil when the pot is hot.
how do I leave it to smoke for an hour w/o the oil burning all off? also, I don't have access to flax seed oil where I live, - where can I find temperatures for other oil types? also, would you do the same thing for cast iron mortar and pestle?
Hi Mimosveta, I'm sorry its taken me so long to reply - I've been away for a few weeks. The whole idea is that the oil 'burns off' - thats what you want - heat it up to above the smoke point and wait for it to polymerise to a hard layer. I would google something like "Table of cooking oil smoke point" or something similar, and a table will come up in search showign different temps for different oils. I don't own a mortar and pestle, infact, I've only seen the ones made of stone, but after some quick research I see that people prefer to season them, atleast once before first use. The same principles should apply! best wishes
I have used grapeseed oil with really good results.
Great video. I swear by cast iron and love the science behind seasoning. I used this video to take some misinformed people to school, so thanks.
But I need to know: what animal is making that noise at the 10:00 minute mark? Lol.
Hi Rob, glad you enjoyed. Thanks for watching. There is a lot of misinformation out there. Its a bird,... now you brought it up its hard to ignore :D. Can't tell you what kind - The trees in our backyard brings some nice natives, but also a few pests!
How is your seasoning holding up? I found another UA-cam channel called Cook Culture and he has 2 videos where he talks about a Polymer Chemist, in the 2nd video it's the Chemist answering questions. He talks about the process that happens at the molecular level and what creates the bonding that creates the Polymer. He never says that Flaxseed oil is the best actually he on says that Grapeseed and Canola oils are very good at creating something called a double carbon which is what you want to create the oil to bond and form a polymer. Me I have no idea what is the best way or oil lol. He also says that using the highest temperature your oven can generate isn't necessarily the best way for the polymerization to happen. It might be the length of time that is more important than having the temperature at 500 degrees Fahrenheit. I'm probably gonna give Sheryl Canter method a try on one skillet a try what Cook Culture does with a different skillet. And see how they compare to the method I've been using which is from the UA-cam channel (the culinary fanatic) lol.
Hi Mate, so sorry I have not replied timely! I super appreciate your time and effort here crafting this comment. I had not seen Jed's Cook Culture channel, but Ive just watched a whole bunch! Have you done your experiment yet with flaxseed vs grapeseed/canola? I am super grateful that Cook Culture brought on actual professor, because it seems to be what's lacking in the cooking education space. A lot of here say and experience and past down generational knowledge - but my engineering brain needs a scientific approach! I did some chemistry at uni but polymerisation is a complex beast and I certainly don't have a doctorate ! Dr Zac Hudson is supporting my simplified scientific approach, explaining HOW it happens. but not WHY flaxseed or grapeseed or any other oil would be best. I believe flaxseed based on the reasons I outline is better - until I am proven wrong with scientific backing (which I welcome). I agree with the gentle, 'low and slow' approach too (above the smoke point temp) - makes sense that controlling the rate of reactions will yield the most uniform result. Best wishes mate! Keep me posted. I'm going to share those cook culture videos on my community tab - thanks for the advice.
Great video, but what's with the helicopter noise in the background?
Helicopter in my back yard, of course! I started the channel with the means I had until I was confident I would continue the passion project, that included a GoPro hero 4 that even with an external mic on, had these sound artefacts and feedback that was hard to manage. In late 2021 I bought a quality camera and microphone combination and my recent productions are a cut above in quality across the boar. Thanks for watching!
This is exactly what I was looking for. There are many different opinions out there about oils and temperature, so this helped me make an informed decision based on science. The two things I would personally change is the oil used and the temperature. If I season a cast iron pan at only 220 (I could be wrong on this since you might be referring to Celsius instead of Fahrenheit) the first time I cook anything at a temperature higher than 220, I'll get all those free radicals in my food and the seasoning will come off. However, if I use and oil with a high smoke point, like avocado oil and bake it at 450-500 F; most of the time I'm not cooking any higher than that so any time I cook after it has been seasoned, I can be confident that the seasoning won't continue to react at such a low temperature.
Unless you have more to add? Any thoughts?
Yeah, he’s talking Celsius (We use the metric system here in Oz)
@Dan, you might want to mention both measures for the benefit of our American brethren in future vids
Thanks. Appreciate you jumping in!
Hi Willy, Glad you liked the video and it was useful. Thanks for the encouragement 😬 As kindly mentioned - Celcius referred to in this video. Check out between roughly 4:00 and 6:00 minutes again - The layer from Flax Seed Oil will be more robust than other oils. Cheers!
I think the problem with flaxseed is that it's too hard. Something in between seems to be superior. Canola, vegetable, and Avocado oil are far less likely to chip
I haven't run into this problem yet. Will monitor and see how it goes! Thanks for watching Tim!
@@OTWD I'm interested in how many times by now you have seasoned and also how the performance has been for you. The cast iron community says a million different things about each seasoning type.
I formulate powder coatings, and if my background applies then we can see the bottom layer onto the base metal as a primer. In powder we want primers to have high crosslink density, and not too thick. High thickness can hurt some mechanical properties. Surface preparation is also key for adhesion to metal. Most of the failures we see in the field are related to dirty substrate (metal), which makes these pans kind of a nightmare haha.
But then after we have the harder high crosslink density layer (which is more brittle) we can add other layers to the top with less crosslink density, and apparently things like grapeseed oil have fewer reactive sites (double bonds) and will be perfect for that. It's possible that adding flaxseed oil on top of softer polymers will cause inter-coat adhesion problems because high crosslink density polymers can have higher surface energies. In other words the layer of flaxseed oil polymer might stick to itself more than whatever is underneath. Anything like a wax layer between the old stuff and what you're now trying to lay down would be even worse. All conjecture.
Not too thick for seasoning is so thin that it looks like you wiped it all off. Cloth works better for this because it absorbs better.
Flaking or chipping is generally because not enough oil was wiped off.
And you want to apply the oil to a heated pan so it starts to bind to small defects in the iron or to prior layers before polymerizing.
Back before modern times, lard had similar polymerization characteristics as flaxseed oil, because the pigs used for lard had a diet that incorporated certain elements that deposited into the fat. So that is why lard or bacon fat was often used for cast iron - it was the cheapest polymerizing oil.
“where all the free radicals hang out” hahaha
Thanks Elizabeth. I'm glad someone appreciates my jokes :D
I am honestly so confused! Just watched your video and another back-to-back. In the other video called something like flaxseed vs old school, Helen follows Sheryls method for flax seed oil seasoning and its a total fail.
Hi Kimberlindy, maybe you should try both yourself and see how it goes :) So far using flaxseed has worked well for me.
Flaxseed oil has a bad tendency of chipping off better off with vegetable or canola.
I haven't seen this, but I hope you are enjoying the hobby and making some awesome dishes! Cheers.😁
Boo use solidteknics cookware made in sydney
Heard of this manufacturer and might try in the future.
@@OTWD best ever
Odd, virtually none of the other experts use flax, and many videos show everything but flax.
Happy to learn about/try other alternatives with scientific backing - I just haven't found any others with such scientific reasoning. And my results match the theory. Let me know what works for you. Cheers
You seem cool but the music is too loud and annoying to tolerate the rest of the video.