I'm from Ireland. Drove past here with no idea what it was. Saw the flags and stopped. What a place. Thanks to the Welsh for properly memorialising it- good people.
My Great grand father was there, Thomas Ruane. His sister Sr Columbanus was in a nunnery close by and baked the famous cake with the key in it that allowed the men to escape. Thomas went on to be a councillor in Galway Ireland and he laid the building stone for the hospital in Galway. You will see this stone in the hospital as you walk in on the left hand side. He is buried in Claregalway cemetery in Galway.
I'm a lecturer in modern irish history in University College Cork, and I have found this very informative. The broad story is reasonably well-known, but the detail you provide is very welcome, and to see the actual location is really helpful. I've seen it marked on the map, but haven't previously visited when driving through north Wales. You've persuaded me to make the detour next time around! *Thank you!*
Both my grandfather and great grandfather ( both John Bracken ) were interned there after the 1916 rising . Thanks for putting a picture of the location on line . Seeing it makes it a bit more real .
Gosh I didn't know this. Two of my grandparents involved in 1916. I know my paternal grandfather was a cousin of Dan Breen. Grandfather was captured and tortured in Dublin Castle and then sent to, a concentration camp, don't know if it was Frogach. Lovely video. Thanks.
As well as Michael Collins many Republican leaders stayed at Frongoch, amongst the POW’s held at Frongoch were Dick Mulcahy, Dick McKee,Tomás Mac Curtain, Terence MacSwiney, Seán T O’Kelly, Oscar Traynor, Joe Clarke, Seán Russell, Tom Derrig, Domhnall Ó Buachalla, Seán Hales, Dr James Ryan, Brian O’Higgins and Séamus Robinson.
Really lovely to see the Welsh people have marked this place. Very important place in the formation of modern Ireland. Fair play to you and the people of Frongoch for maintaining education about such a place
Learn the FACTS before making stupid blinkered comments. Northern Ireland is not occupied .Your great Irish republican leader Michael Collins made an agreement to let the British keep Northern Ireland because of its mostly Protestant British inhabitants, So the British kept their side of the agreement and give the southern Ireland to the native Irish, but some Irish republican's didn't keep their side of the agreement to let Northern Ireland remain under the British, and took up arm's against the British hence the many year's since of senseless bloodshed by the terrorist IRA against the Protestant/British people mostly in Northern Ireland but also in mainland UK which resulted in the murder of many innocent men women and children.
@@garethpaul8136 stop posturing as a political/historical analyst, your understanding of the Irish conflict is one big cliché generated by British propaganda
@@roontunes just stating true facts, but some people don't like the truth because it doesn't fit the Irish republican agenda of trying to rewrite history.
A native of Limavady now an adopted son of Birkenhead....you have done a great service to the Welsh and Irish...thank you for sharing this with us all, best wishes from the wirral peninsula,bounded by the mersey and the Dee and the Dee and the Irish sea...geography and rhyme..E..😊😊😊
I wonder if it’s true the Vikings launched the colonisation of the Pale from The Wirral. We are Anglo-Irish Mancunians and some Norse antecedents have shown up in our DNA.
@@donquixote3927 The Wirral and parts of Liverpool are awash with Viking place names Kirby, West Kirby, Thingwall and Frankby to name but a few. Historians now identify Bromborough (my birthplace0 as the site of an enormous battle were the Saxons defeated the Norsemen and stopped the Danelaw reaching even further across Brittain.
@@donquixote3927 No Saxons were north of Watford Gap. As for the Norse in Wirral and South West Lancs , they were actually Norse-Gaels from whats known.. They'd left Ireland for Britain ie Northumbria/Danelaw.. York and Dublin (Northumbria&Ireland ) were unified kingdoms under Norse rule for decades .
@@Vandor1960 I read years ago that any English village, town or city with a name ending with the letters "by" was originally a Viking settlement. There was another name ending mentioned but I can't remember it. Don't know if this applied to Wales though.
@PatrickPennie Reading your text i got the feeling you were unhappy with me not knowing BALA. My father was a Donegal man and was very keen on. Eamon De Velera ,my Grandfather made his sons go over the Border and paint the post boxes green. So sorry i never heard about, BALA, TAKE CARE AND GOD BLESS YOU SIR 🙏 ❤️.
The Irish Volunteer had been founded in November 1913, it was a portion of the Volunteers that staged the 1916 Easter Rising. It was after many of them were released that the organisation was re-named the IRA as Sinn Fein were preparing to declare a Republic. So it is not the 'birthplace of the IRA'. You also argue that the prisoners were educated in 'Reading and writing'. As the vast majority were either from the professional middle classes, cultural nationalists, artists, writers and academics, its also a stretch to argue they needed such basic education. Many of the inmates had been members of the Gaelic league and like many nationalist movements they were focused on the restoration of what they saw as a legitimising native tongue. I understand that you may want to write your small town into a wider history, but please be accurate. Sinn Fein was a largely marginal political movement prior to the rising, and the rising was led largely by the highly secretive IRB. The British blamed Sinn Fein, but in truth they had little or nothing to do with the rising. When Frongoch is referred to as the 'school of the revolution', it relates more that a range of different groups had time and space to coalesce around a central banner, an uneasy alliance that would crack under the strain of the Anglo-Irish treaty of 1921. It was also from Frongoch that a generation of new leaders such as Michael Collins would emerge.
IRA was the name of the Fenian military wing . The name's been used since at least the 1860s. "During the Easter Rising, James Connolly was appointed Commandant-General of the Dublin brigade, directing the Army of the Irish Republic .IRA."
James Connolly was a member of the Citizen Army, although not its founder. I'm really not sure where you're getting the 1860 date from. The IRB was reformed in earnest after 1907 and had thrived primarily in the North prior. After the release of Tom Clarke the organisation moved forward largely under the guidance of Bulmer Hobson and was largely underground. The Irish Volunteers, later to morph into the IRA in 1918/19 was named as such after the Republic was declared in 1916. They had little or no public support and were referred to as the minority of the minority. After the execution of the leaders, continued fears of conscription and a massive decline for the dominant IPP, the reformed Sinn Fein party canvassed on the basis of a forming a Republic. Prior to this, Republicanism had been a very marginal political discourse. @@sisi2484
@tullinadaly I'm afraid youre wrong on the naming history, see my previous comment . The name IRA was used by the Fenian Brotherhood in the 1860s . IRA of modern times was created from the ica and volunteers etc in 1916.
Absolutely spot on. My gran-uncle by marriage, Frank Burke, was there too. He was on the roof of the GPO under the command of Padraig Pearse, who was a qualified lawyer and headmaster of St. Endas school. See my post above.
Hello. Thank you for making a very interesting video on Frongoch. We learnt about this place in history class when in secondary school. History is all around.me here in North Tipperary 😊. Keep making great videos😊
Thanks for these informative videos. The places you visit can easily be forgotten and lost to history. I love all this. My poor kids have to listen to me when I return home to Ireland and take them around our little gems of historical importance in our local community.
Interesting. My grandfather was one of Irish rebels interned at Front Goch after the Easter Rising of 1916 so the IRA was already in existence at this time. But from what I have read, it certainly was a place where their ideals and philosophies grew and developed.
@@davidpryle3935 Agreed David. My Grandfather was interned there, sent from Dublin initially to Knutsford 'Gaol', from there to Frongoch. He was a member of both the Irish Volunteers. 4th. Batt and the IRB.
Family legend has it that one of my Grandfathers brothers was involved at the Post Office in 1916 while another was killed on the Somme that same year.
The IRA didn't fight in 1916, the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Republican Brotherhood did. Later they were to amalgamate into the Irish Republican Army, it was they who went on to fight the war of independence. After the 1916 rising the British made the mistake of putting all the Irish prisoners in one place (Frongoch) as it became the school of revolution and the birthplace of the IRA.
My gran-aunt was married to one of those prisoners. His name was Frank Burke and I remember listening to my mother and himself chatting when I was a teenager. He told of the time he was occupying the GPO under the command of Padraig Pearse and his retreat flight down Moore Street under a hail of bullets. He went on to become headmaster of St. Endas school, (where Pearse had also been headmaster), and also a legend of Irish Sport. He won all Ireland winner medals for both hurling and gaelic football,and was on the field marking Michael Hogan at Croke Park on Bloody Sunday. When Hogan was fatally shot he lay over the priest that was giving him the last rites. and then crawled off the pitch with the priest at his side. He remembers Michael Collins drilling all the those imprisoned at Stafford Jail and Frongoch after 1916 rising. However he did not remain in any military faction upon his return to Ireland as he saw educating others more productive than killing fellow countrymen. He had met my grandmother's sister in Stafford Jail where she was among official allowed visitors to the Irish prisoners.
A very interesting video. I was born in 1952 in West Ireland and I knew that a few of my old neighbours were interned in Frongoch but I though it was an Irish Gaelic placename. Thanks for your report.
My Welsh mother in law came from a little village called Hook , South Wales i think..She told my son about Camp Frongoch year's ago. Thanks for reminding me of happier times. 🇮🇪 / 🏴 .
I learned something new today, which means it's a good day! That said, history is very important in helping guide us to make better decisions today but often the history, like this one, is unpleasant
There was a prisoner camp for Scottish soldiers in Wales, I know they nicknamed it the Bull Ring. I don’t know much about it, there’s nothing written down, but I do know from my Grandmother that Scottish troops were sent there after WW1, as the British Est., feared rebellion if they were returned home, most were sent to Murmansk, to fight the reds, while others were sent to Wales, that’s why our memorials have 1914-19 on them. There was a rebellion in Glasgow in 1919, Scottish troops were locked up, while English soldiers were sent in with tanks. The Est., also feared the land raids. Because the Highland clearances were still going on, any soldiers who fought for the empire were told they would get their land back on returning, they didn’t want them returning which is why Scotland had proportionally the highest losses of any nation in WW1. The land raids did happen, but due to the lack of manpower to work the land, the emptying of the Highlands especially accelerated
@@markmanc-zw3td You are correct, thank you, only Serbia lost more, but a lot of that was due to fighting on their own soil and the usual ethnic cleansing that happens there
@@DM-ur8vc take a trip to Scotland and look at the tiny communities with huge memorials, and the war date ending in 1919. Scotland, then Germany, then France had the biggest losses, and the huge Scottish dispora were listed under their own new adopted countries that they went to as refugees, especially Canada. The cemeteries of northern France will show a disproportionate number of Scots. I’ll give you an example from my family history, my granny came from a tenanted farm at Fortingall, they gave up the farm when her 3 brothers never returned, and it was the same everywhere else when the young men didn’t return, so causing another round of clearances, the previous ones carried out by the British aristocracy, sometimes they got help from the Royal Marines if families became stubborn!
@@DM-ur8vc what history tells you and what the realities are! British history is written to suit British agenda, or nationalism. The clearances were still going on in the 1940s. There was a Glen near me cleared 15 years ago, by a Lord, whose father was a friend of the great English nationalist Thatcher. The Scots were told they could reclaim their land if they fought WW1. The aristocracy knew a return of Scottish troops would cause problems, and it did, in Glasgow 1919 and again in 1923. Then there were the land raids. I’m not going to get through to you.
My grandfather Kenneth Shields Reddin ( a Judge) was arrested and transferred from Dublin by boat (he and many others were made to stand on the edge of the forward bow in wind and rain and some fell over board never to be seen again), he was retained in Wales in internment for 18 months with no conviction and eventually released home, he was a proud Protestant but Irish nationalist at the time but then converted to Catholicism there after - a lineage of great warriors in the British army (as many an Irish family has) but turned his back on the British Empire after that escapade and then fought against them legally in the courts and covertly through many media - reap what you sow
Interesting and well presented! Must get there the next time I visit Wales. I did learn of it in history but I must make a point of getting to see it as it is significant in our history.
We are taught about Fromgoch in secondary school history lessons in Ireland, if you have a good 5th or 6th class teacher in primary school, you may even know of Fromgoch that early on.
Yup, many years ago on my way back from nearby Portmeirion, I stopped off at Frongoch (and picked up a book there re this Univ of Warfare). Of course Collins and the others there built up their training for the 1919-21 War Of Independence...is mise..
why are you saying the words my name in irish at the end of the sentence it does not make sense or correlates to anything in your previous parts of your sentence lol slan gao faille
There is an old Book called, And The Gates Flew Open. It's all about the early days of The struggle for Irish independence and Frongoch is in there. Michael Collins was interned there and whilst there, he learnt some of The Welsh Language. There was another internment camp also and I think it was in Winsford in Cheshire but I have not been able to find anything out about it. Great Video.
I'm from Winsford and have never heard of this. My Grandfather was interned in Wales, and by chance, my Dad ended up in Winsford building the town centre where he met my mother. If you find any more about that I'd love to hear it.
@@gedohara1748 I'm sorry, it was actually Knutsford. I got the two of them mixed up. I have been reliably informed that a courthouse now sits on where the site was.
Very interesting. One complaint - it wasn't long enough. I could have learned lots more of this place. Which revolutionaries were here etc. You also have a very pleasant speaking voice. Thanks for the video.
You will get more info from following the replies and comments here, from the multiple descendents of the 1800 imprisoned there. They can elaborate more and by comparing accounts of that time you can form your own opinions.
Thanks for the video. My grandfather and grand-uncle were both in Frongoch. Among the classes they had was chess. My grandfather taught my father and he in turn taught me. So thanks to Frongoch I know how to play chess. Apparently there were so many rats some of the prisoners nicknamed it Francach - the Irish word for rat. I visited in 2020, definitely worth it for anyone if you’re in the area.
My Grandfather was East Galway IRA a few in his area of Lough Rea were sent to Wales. Ratted out by a family member no less. Liam Mellows would give talks in East Galway and Gort where my family are from. They put money together to buy Liam Mellows a motorbike but on one occasion he had to make a quick escape by other means his motorbike was taken to the local police barricks. My grandfather " liberated" the motorbike, its now in display in a museum in Galway.
I remember my old teacher telling us about this place and that it was called the "University of Revolution" because it spawned so many republicans and IRA members, many of whom had previously been moderates who had been falsely imprisoned for some vague connections to republicanism such as being part of the Gaelic League.
Yeah and what did it get them? Nothing but an early death so people like you can sit on St patricks day drinking guinness talking about how Irish you are, you probably vote sinn fein thinking your a republican, anything but cara
Tanks for this interesting video. Bala is also the site of an important Marian Shrine which deserves much more publicity than it gets. Perhaps you might consider this worthy project for a future blog? Your rewards will be great in Heaven if you do!
Very interesting. I lived just outside Wrexham for a few years, and love the whole Snowdonia range, but I always knew that English people weren't welcome in Bala for some reason. This makes a lot of sense.
No, Lake Bala. A village was cleared then flooded to make the lake. The lake supplies water to liverpool. Liverpool had a pretty large Welsh community, the Irish is well known. The Welsh not so much. In the past a fair few English people moved to Wales raising housing prices and reducing availability to the native Welsh There was also a time when criminals from Liverpool, Manchester etc would go to Wales to commit some pretty serious crimes. Burglaries, robberies, car thefts and selling contraband I went to school in North Wales, not far from Ruthin in the late 70's
@@jazztheglass6139 That's not correct. The village of Capel Celyn was flooded to make way for Llyn (Lake) Tryweryn, a few miles from Bala. Llyn Tegid (Bala Lake) is a naturally formed lake and the source of the river Dee.
When the prisoners were released from Frongoch, I wonder which way they travelled back to Dublin via Holyhead? Did they catch a train from Frongoch station towards Bala and then onto Chester direction and then to Holyhead. Or did they catch a train the other way to Ffestiniog then Llandudno Jnc and onto Holyhead. It would make for a bit of interesting railway history.
I should imagine they split up into small groups all going in different directions, not to draw attention to themselves and in case the authorities changed their minds. They were all let out in small draughts anyway. My own Gran Uncle was a Category A prisoner (not because he was dangerous, but because he was well educated and considered a main influencer), and was not let out until December 23rd.
The IRA , Army of the Irish Republic , Irish Republican Army name predates that time by some decades . the IRA of 1916 composed of the irish volunteers/ICA et al, predates it too.
If anyone is interested in the true story of Frongoch they could read two books on the subject one published in 1987 -- FRONGOCH, UNIVERSITY OF REVOLUTION by SEAN O'MAHONY -- [my relatives are noted on the roll call] and FRON-GOCH AND THE BIRTHPLACE OF THE IRA by LYN EBENEZER published in 2006 and dedicated to Joe Clark. In the first book, Mr O'Mahony lists the organisations which took part in the 1916 Rising : IRISH VOLUNTEERS; IRISH CITIZEN ARMY; HIBERNIAN RIFLES; CUMANN NA MBAN and the KIMMAGE GARRISON. The internment or concentration camp opened to Irish prisoners on 6th June 1916. They were brought by train.
The IRA are finished now, nobodies interested , they sold out twice, once in Collins era and once in Adams era and now the new IRA are nothing but a bunch of drug dealers. So I can respect the contributions of Terence McSwieney , Harry Boland , Constance Markiewicz, the 1981 hunger strikers , M- Farrell , the dark Hughes, Colin Duffy and others. Though, its dead! They've sold out the 32 county socialist Irish Republic that those mentioned fought and /or died for. Terence McSwieney died by hunger strike for what? So later MIcheal Collins and the free-state army can use British guns on IRA at the time, yet Collins is considered a hero by people in the south, why though?. Harry Boland shot by his own comrades hunger strikers left to die in their own excrement and the dark Hughes who give his lifetime in service of the Irish people who was left to die in a dingie flat in divis when he should of been given the medal of honour all of them should have. Its fecking rotten and sickening tbh
My god you have so much to say here but yet your channel has zero content. You are one of those comment BOTS the ones run by someone somewhere that pop up to attack comments that do not fit in well with some unknown person or organization. Explain why you have a big mouth here but a blank UA-cam channel. I don't think your post even makes any real sense either.@@DM-ur8vc
After doing a little digging, a Gentleman who's Grandfather was in Frongoch informed me that the other camp was in Knutsford and not Winsford, still in Cheshire though 👍👍
I read about Frongoch in a book I read about Michael Collins (written by Tim Pat Coogan). Michael was at Frongoch. Fancy the IRA being born in a sleepy little village near Bala Wales. Amazing really. Thanks for the video
Definitely not the birth place.... But its a good story. The IRA was already formed before 1916 , the irish republican army joined forces with the irish citizens army to form the main body of the rising on easter week 1916. James Connolly commanded the smaller irish citizen army ( ~ 500 volunteers ) Eoin MacNeill was the leader of the bigger force the irish volunteers which had elements already called the IRA , im not sure if it was a brigade or just a name they used to call themselves. The Irish Republican Army as we know it mainly formed after 1916 to fight in the war of independence. They mainly consisted of members who stayed after the split between the Irish volunteers, Two groups emerged The National Volunteers and The Irish Volunteeers . (~10,,000)
My Grandfathers brother Jack Corless was there with Michael Collins. He was tortured and had his eye cut out by the British. He used to make Dolls houses.idont think he ever came outside his house again after this experience.
But a group calling themselves the Irish Republican Army invaded Canada in the 1800s under the control of the invincibles, who were the precursor to the Dynamiters... so before the 1916 uprising. This was in the book "The Dynamiters: Irish Nationalism and Political Violence in the Wider World, 1867-1900" by Niall Whelehan.
@privatechannel8462, Wrong. They known as "The Fenian Brotherhood" made up of Irishmen who had fought in the American Civil War. Most were ex members of the Irish Brigade along with other Irish in US regiments which fought in the Civil War. It was these men, most poor and close to destitute, which changed by their courage and blood, the contempt and hate for the Irish in America. The Civil War ended in 1865 and the "invasion" of Canada was a squib. About two hundred thousand fought for the Union and about twenty thousand fought on the side of the Confederate States. And in at least two battles they fought one another close up. Men from Monaghan, Galway and Cork became Generals, having joined up as privates. General Patrick Cleburne from Cork was looked upon by Robert E. Lee as one of the greatest. General Thomas Francis Meagher was in command of the Union's Irish Brigade.
@@privatechannel8462, I gave you facts in my comment. I do not care about "Niall's thesis." He did not not do his research very well, if at all. I gave facts far beyond the narrow point of the false claim made. You may "believe" whatever you want but let "Niall" defend the claim you made.
No, it is not. I understand the point you want to make. The cause of the War of Independence was complex but began with the plantation was totally driven by the British Government need to support the loyalists in the north. The British support for the invaders. Meant that all of those that sent them were responsible.
I visited here in early 2024 with My Irish uncle. He was upset at the state of the shredded flags flying, which turned out to be due to the brutal winds that blow through here. The flags have since been replaced with newer ones. There is much more about to be exposed about the British Power in 2024 and what they were really upto for decades, even centuries. This is called the GREAT AWAKENING.
The IRA was not invented that prison. Michael Collins changed the name of the irb to the ira It's been around in one or another form since the United Irishmen 1790.
Ah thank you for this video, this was where they took my grandfather… he turn in his grave if he knew how the Irish politicians treat the people of Ireland now …. Worst than any British soldier ❤❤❤❤
I'm from Ireland. Drove past here with no idea what it was. Saw the flags and stopped. What a place. Thanks to the Welsh for properly memorialising it- good people.
Being Welsh i came across this plaque and Irish flag in Bala, sent a photo to my Irish friend, every day is a learning day 🏴🇮🇪
Before housing Irish prisoners Frongoch had German POWs from WW1 incarcerated there.
Frongoch is famous in Irish history. Thank you Erin for bringing this part of our story to a new generation. Excellent presentation style Erin.
JB
Her name is Erin that’s cool
Erin go bragh
Irland is lost to the E U Migrants
My Great grand father was there, Thomas Ruane. His sister Sr Columbanus was in a nunnery close by and baked the famous cake with the key in it that allowed the men to escape. Thomas went on to be a councillor in Galway Ireland and he laid the building stone for the hospital in Galway. You will see this stone in the hospital as you walk in on the left hand side. He is buried in Claregalway cemetery in Galway.
Oh fantastic story , my Grandfather was East Galway IRA and knew people who had been interned there.
Great story though I would add that the jail break was from Reading jail.
Nope, the jail was knocked afterwards due to the escape.
@StephenMerchant-up8sg
Sir, what a wonderful story ❤️. TAKE CARE and God bless you 🙏.
My mum told me that story when I was a wee fella.
I'm a lecturer in modern irish history in University College Cork, and I have found this very informative. The broad story is reasonably well-known, but the detail you provide is very welcome, and to see the actual location is really helpful. I've seen it marked on the map, but haven't previously visited when driving through north Wales. You've persuaded me to make the detour next time around! *Thank you!*
Keep an eye 👁 out for Welsh men in sheep's clothing , turning there backs on us a nation of celts ,our celtic cousins occupied the 6 counties ffs
I have only recently learnt of Frongoch as a place of Irish Internment. Thanks for this informative post.
Very interesting - I love when the interweb does what its supposed to do and educates us! Thanks Dr. Jones!
Ditto, take care and God bless 🙌 🙏 ❤️.
Both my grandfather and great grandfather ( both John Bracken ) were interned there after the 1916 rising . Thanks for putting a picture of the location on line . Seeing it makes it a bit more real .
I'm aware of Frongoch and its history, but I've never visited it. Looks like a beautiful village. I must take a trip soon. Thanks for the upload.
Gosh I didn't know this. Two of my grandparents involved in 1916. I know my paternal grandfather was a cousin of Dan Breen. Grandfather was captured and tortured in Dublin Castle and then sent to, a concentration camp, don't know if it was Frogach. Lovely video. Thanks.
As well as Michael Collins many Republican leaders stayed at Frongoch, amongst the POW’s held at Frongoch were Dick Mulcahy, Dick McKee,Tomás Mac Curtain, Terence MacSwiney, Seán T O’Kelly, Oscar Traynor, Joe Clarke, Seán Russell, Tom Derrig, Domhnall Ó Buachalla, Seán Hales, Dr James Ryan, Brian O’Higgins and Séamus Robinson.
That right! Frongoch was known as the Fenian university 😊🇮🇪✊
@@Candyfloss119 It was known as the University of Revolution.
Really lovely to see the Welsh people have marked this place. Very important place in the formation of modern Ireland. Fair play to you and the people of Frongoch for maintaining education about such a place
Frongoch camp was where a certain Micheal Collins became a respected leader of the movement.
from the ‘occupied north’, had never heard of this connection before, many thanks for this interesting post.
Learn the FACTS before making stupid blinkered comments. Northern Ireland is not occupied .Your great Irish republican leader Michael Collins made an agreement to let the British keep Northern Ireland because of its mostly Protestant British inhabitants, So the British kept their side of the agreement and give the southern Ireland to the native Irish, but some Irish republican's didn't keep their side of the agreement to let Northern Ireland remain under the British, and took up arm's against the British hence the many year's since of senseless bloodshed by the terrorist IRA against the Protestant/British people mostly in Northern Ireland but also in mainland UK which resulted in the murder of many innocent men women and children.
@@garethpaul8136 stop posturing as a political/historical analyst, your understanding of the Irish conflict is one big cliché generated by British propaganda
@@roontunes just stating true facts, but some people don't like the truth because it doesn't fit the Irish republican agenda of trying to rewrite history.
A native of Limavady now an adopted son of Birkenhead....you have done a great service to the Welsh and Irish...thank you for sharing this with us all, best wishes from the wirral peninsula,bounded by the mersey and the Dee and the Dee and the Irish sea...geography and rhyme..E..😊😊😊
I wonder if it’s true the Vikings launched the colonisation of the Pale from The Wirral. We are Anglo-Irish Mancunians and some Norse antecedents have shown up in our DNA.
@@donquixote3927 The Wirral and parts of Liverpool are awash with Viking place names Kirby, West Kirby, Thingwall and Frankby to name but a few. Historians now identify Bromborough (my birthplace0 as the site of an enormous battle were the Saxons defeated the Norsemen and stopped the Danelaw reaching even further across Brittain.
@@Vandor1960 Thanks Eddie. Yes, I had no idea there were so many traces of them in that corner of England.
@@donquixote3927 No Saxons were north of Watford Gap.
As for the Norse in Wirral and South West Lancs , they were actually Norse-Gaels from whats known.. They'd left Ireland for Britain ie Northumbria/Danelaw.. York and Dublin (Northumbria&Ireland ) were unified kingdoms under Norse rule for decades .
@@Vandor1960 I read years ago that any English village, town or city with a name ending with the letters "by" was originally a Viking settlement. There was another name ending mentioned but I can't remember it. Don't know if this applied to Wales though.
Thanks for your effort to record this important historical fact.
Loved your story, my self at 70 years old and Irish never heard this before. God bless you 🙏 ❤️ from Ireland 🇮🇪 ♥️ 🙏 😢
Same
I'm 70 too and I most certainly knew of this place my Grandfather Thomas Curran who fought with DeVelera in Bolands Mill was interested here
@PatrickPennie Reading your text i got the feeling you were unhappy with me not knowing BALA. My father was a Donegal man and was very keen on. Eamon De Velera ,my Grandfather made his sons go over the Border and paint the post boxes green. So sorry i never heard about, BALA, TAKE CARE AND GOD BLESS YOU SIR 🙏 ❤️.
@@GerryMcglynn they don’t teach us our history shocking
I learned about it in 1982 aged 12, in St Pats, Drumcondra.
Depends on tbe quality of teacher / school. @@grlfcgombeenhunter2897
The Irish Volunteer had been founded in November 1913, it was a portion of the Volunteers that staged the 1916 Easter Rising. It was after many of them were released that the organisation was re-named the IRA as Sinn Fein were preparing to declare a Republic. So it is not the 'birthplace of the IRA'. You also argue that the prisoners were educated in 'Reading and writing'. As the vast majority were either from the professional middle classes, cultural nationalists, artists, writers and academics, its also a stretch to argue they needed such basic education. Many of the inmates had been members of the Gaelic league and like many nationalist movements they were focused on the restoration of what they saw as a legitimising native tongue. I understand that you may want to write your small town into a wider history, but please be accurate. Sinn Fein was a largely marginal political movement prior to the rising, and the rising was led largely by the highly secretive IRB. The British blamed Sinn Fein, but in truth they had little or nothing to do with the rising. When Frongoch is referred to as the 'school of the revolution', it relates more that a range of different groups had time and space to coalesce around a central banner, an uneasy alliance that would crack under the strain of the Anglo-Irish treaty of 1921. It was also from Frongoch that a generation of new leaders such as Michael Collins would emerge.
IRA was the name of the Fenian military wing . The name's been used since at least the 1860s.
"During the Easter Rising, James Connolly was appointed Commandant-General of the Dublin brigade, directing the Army of the Irish Republic .IRA."
James Connolly was a member of the Citizen Army, although not its founder. I'm really not sure where you're getting the 1860 date from. The IRB was reformed in earnest after 1907 and had thrived primarily in the North prior. After the release of Tom Clarke the organisation moved forward largely under the guidance of Bulmer Hobson and was largely underground. The Irish Volunteers, later to morph into the IRA in 1918/19 was named as such after the Republic was declared in 1916. They had little or no public support and were referred to as the minority of the minority. After the execution of the leaders, continued fears of conscription and a massive decline for the dominant IPP, the reformed Sinn Fein party canvassed on the basis of a forming a Republic. Prior to this, Republicanism had been a very marginal political discourse. @@sisi2484
@tullinadaly I'm afraid youre wrong on the naming history, see my previous comment . The name IRA was used by the Fenian Brotherhood in the 1860s . IRA of modern times was created from the ica and volunteers etc in 1916.
ok@@sisi2484
Absolutely spot on. My gran-uncle by marriage, Frank Burke, was there too. He was on the roof of the GPO under the command of Padraig Pearse, who was a qualified lawyer and headmaster of St. Endas school. See my post above.
Thanks for posting regards from Ireland god bless wales god bless Ireland
Hello. Thank you for making a very interesting video on Frongoch. We learnt about this place in history class when in secondary school. History is all around.me here in North Tipperary 😊. Keep making great videos😊
Thanks for putting this together. Visited there a few years ago while on Holidays in England and Wales.
Thanks for these informative videos. The places you visit can easily be forgotten and lost to history. I love all this. My poor kids have to listen to me when I return home to Ireland and take them around our little gems of historical importance in our local community.
Great video. Most Irish people know about Frongoch camp but because it's in Wales it's a forgotten historical site.
I've driven through there a number of times over the last few years and wondered why there was an Irish flag there. Now it all makes sense! 😁
Interesting. My grandfather was one of Irish rebels interned at Front Goch after the Easter Rising of 1916 so the IRA was already in existence at this time. But from what I have read, it certainly was a place where their ideals and philosophies grew and developed.
No, the woman presenting the video is correct. When the rebels were interned, they were known as the Irish volunteers, and Irish citizens army.
@@davidpryle3935 Agreed David. My Grandfather was interned there, sent from Dublin initially to Knutsford 'Gaol', from there to Frongoch. He was a member of both the Irish Volunteers. 4th. Batt and the IRB.
Family legend has it that one of my Grandfathers brothers was involved at the Post Office in 1916 while another was killed on the Somme that same year.
To a point& my family are from the remote regions of Kerry! ( which I'm sure ur aware was quite the stronghold,for many reasons!)
The IRA didn't fight in 1916, the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Republican Brotherhood did. Later they were to amalgamate into the Irish Republican Army, it was they who went on to fight the war of independence. After the 1916 rising the British made the mistake of putting all the Irish prisoners in one place (Frongoch) as it became the school of revolution and the birthplace of the IRA.
Fascinating. I was completely unaware of this. Thank you.
My gran-aunt was married to one of those prisoners. His name was Frank Burke and I remember listening to my mother and himself chatting when I was a teenager. He told of the time he was occupying the GPO under the command of Padraig Pearse and his retreat flight down Moore Street under a hail of bullets. He went on to become headmaster of St. Endas school, (where Pearse had also been headmaster), and also a legend of Irish Sport. He won all Ireland winner medals for both hurling and gaelic football,and was on the field marking Michael Hogan at Croke Park on Bloody Sunday. When Hogan was fatally shot he lay over the priest that was giving him the last rites. and then crawled off the pitch with the priest at his side. He remembers Michael Collins drilling all the those imprisoned at Stafford Jail and Frongoch after 1916 rising. However he did not remain in any military faction upon his return to Ireland as he saw educating others more productive than killing fellow countrymen. He had met my grandmother's sister in Stafford Jail where she was among official allowed visitors to the Irish prisoners.
A very interesting video. I was born in 1952 in West Ireland and I knew that a few of my old neighbours were interned in Frongoch but I though it was an Irish Gaelic placename. Thanks for your report.
I holidayed in Bala years ago and wish I had known this back then.
Great video! Thank you & greetings from Canada
My Welsh mother in law came from a little village called Hook , South Wales i think..She told my son about Camp Frongoch year's ago. Thanks for reminding me of happier times. 🇮🇪 / 🏴 .
Very interesting piece of Irish history that was previously completely unknown to me.
Thank you.
I learned something new today, which means it's a good day! That said, history is very important in helping guide us to make better decisions today but often the history, like this one, is unpleasant
What a beautiful day you picked to film this,fantastic insight.
Nice video linking this small Welsh village to its important role in Irish independence from the UK.
There was a prisoner camp for Scottish soldiers in Wales, I know they nicknamed it the Bull Ring. I don’t know much about it, there’s nothing written down, but I do know from my Grandmother that Scottish troops were sent there after WW1, as the British Est., feared rebellion if they were returned home, most were sent to Murmansk, to fight the reds, while others were sent to Wales, that’s why our memorials have 1914-19 on them. There was a rebellion in Glasgow in 1919, Scottish troops were locked up, while English soldiers were sent in with tanks. The Est., also feared the land raids. Because the Highland clearances were still going on, any soldiers who fought for the empire were told they would get their land back on returning, they didn’t want them returning which is why Scotland had proportionally the highest losses of any nation in WW1. The land raids did happen, but due to the lack of manpower to work the land, the emptying of the Highlands especially accelerated
I heard that Serbia lost 60% of its male population in WW1 , so Scotland was higher than that ?
BTW love the Scots & Irish & Welsh 👍
@@markmanc-zw3td You are correct, thank you, only Serbia lost more, but a lot of that was due to fighting on their own soil and the usual ethnic cleansing that happens there
@@McConnachy Ahh, yes cheers , I see your point .
@@DM-ur8vc take a trip to Scotland and look at the tiny communities with huge memorials, and the war date ending in 1919. Scotland, then Germany, then France had the biggest losses, and the huge Scottish dispora were listed under their own new adopted countries that they went to as refugees, especially Canada. The cemeteries of northern France will show a disproportionate number of Scots.
I’ll give you an example from my family history, my granny came from a tenanted farm at Fortingall, they gave up the farm when her 3 brothers never returned, and it was the same everywhere else when the young men didn’t return, so causing another round of clearances, the previous ones carried out by the British aristocracy, sometimes they got help from the Royal Marines if families became stubborn!
@@DM-ur8vc what history tells you and what the realities are! British history is written to suit British agenda, or nationalism. The clearances were still going on in the 1940s. There was a Glen near me cleared 15 years ago, by a Lord, whose father was a friend of the great English nationalist Thatcher. The Scots were told they could reclaim their land if they fought WW1. The aristocracy knew a return of Scottish troops would cause problems, and it did, in Glasgow 1919 and again in 1923. Then there were the land raids. I’m not going to get through to you.
Excellent! Very interesting to learn this small but important peace of Irish/Welsh history.
Thankyou for posting. I hadn't heard any of this till now.
This is great. We didn’t get any detail about the camp in history lessons at school.
And it was Michael Collins that did all the networking in this camp.
My grandfather Kenneth Shields Reddin ( a Judge) was arrested and transferred from Dublin by boat (he and many others were made to stand on the edge of the forward bow in wind and rain and some fell over board never to be seen again), he was retained in Wales in internment for 18 months with no conviction and eventually released home, he was a proud Protestant but Irish nationalist at the time but then converted to Catholicism there after - a lineage of great warriors in the British army (as many an Irish family has) but turned his back on the British Empire after that escapade and then fought against them legally in the courts and covertly through many media - reap what you sow
Interesting and well presented! Must get there the next time I visit Wales. I did learn of it in history but I must make a point of getting to see it as it is significant in our history.
Great video 🇮🇪✝️🏴
As an Irishman thats very interesting & first I heard of that spot, fair play to you for sharing 👏👏👏🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪
I have a copy of the book setting out the history of the site. Fascinating.
Thank you ! This was ace I had no idea
Ireland stands today off the backs of them mem ! RIP lads ! Never forget !
Very interesting subject and extremely well presented. Thanks for this.
We are taught about Fromgoch in secondary school history lessons in Ireland, if you have a good 5th or 6th class teacher in primary school, you may even know of Fromgoch that early on.
I wouldn't have thought the Irish would find the North Wales climate too harsh.
Yup, many years ago on my way back from nearby Portmeirion, I stopped off at Frongoch (and picked up a book there re this Univ of Warfare). Of course Collins and the others there built up their training for the 1919-21 War Of Independence...is mise..
why are you saying the words my name in irish at the end of the sentence it does not make sense or correlates to anything in your previous parts of your sentence lol slan gao faille
There is an old Book called, And The Gates Flew Open. It's all about the early days of The struggle for Irish independence and Frongoch is in there. Michael Collins was interned there and whilst there, he learnt some of The Welsh Language. There was another internment camp also and I think it was in Winsford in Cheshire but I have not been able to find anything out about it. Great Video.
I'm from Winsford and have never heard of this. My Grandfather was interned in Wales, and by chance, my Dad ended up in Winsford building the town centre where he met my mother. If you find any more about that I'd love to hear it.
@@gedohara1748 I'm sorry, it was actually Knutsford. I got the two of them mixed up. I have been reliably informed that a courthouse now sits on where the site was.
Great video, thank you ! I never knew this piece of history!
Very interesting. One complaint - it wasn't long enough. I could have learned lots more of this place. Which revolutionaries were here etc. You also have a very pleasant speaking voice. Thanks for the video.
You will get more info from following the replies and comments here, from the multiple descendents of the 1800 imprisoned there. They can elaborate more and by comparing accounts of that time you can form your own opinions.
Thank you.@@fergusmoloney5259
Can we send Varadkar there?
Dim diolch
Maybe his new communist pal could take him back to China. More unpopular than Ahern even.
That fella belongs in India🎉😊🎉
Send him to Ukraine
Thanks for the video. My grandfather and grand-uncle were both in Frongoch. Among the classes they had was chess. My grandfather taught my father and he in turn taught me. So thanks to Frongoch I know how to play chess.
Apparently there were so many rats some of the prisoners nicknamed it Francach - the Irish word for rat. I visited in 2020, definitely worth it for anyone if you’re in the area.
My grandfather was also there, he taught my dad chess. THanks for sharing that as now I know another part of my family history...
Thanks very much for highlighting and educating from Belfast
That's a small bit of Irish history I never knew about. Thanks for uploading.
My Grandfather was East Galway IRA a few in his area of Lough Rea were sent to Wales. Ratted out by a family member no less.
Liam Mellows would give talks in East Galway and Gort where my family are from. They put money together to buy Liam Mellows a motorbike but on one occasion he had to make a quick escape by other means his motorbike was taken to the local police barricks. My grandfather " liberated" the motorbike, its now in display in a museum in Galway.
I remember my old teacher telling us about this place and that it was called the "University of Revolution" because it spawned so many republicans and IRA members, many of whom had previously been moderates who had been falsely imprisoned for some vague connections to republicanism such as being part of the Gaelic League.
Yeah and what did it get them? Nothing but an early death so people like you can sit on St patricks day drinking guinness talking about how Irish you are, you probably vote sinn fein thinking your a republican, anything but cara
I have not heard about this .well done
Much appreciated 👍 thanks
Interesting tbf Erin we had to do something.
I feel our hand was forced if it was for the Brits.
The ira wouldn’t exist imo
🙏🏻🇮🇪🙏🏻
Tanks for this interesting video.
Bala is also the site of an important Marian Shrine which deserves much more publicity than it gets.
Perhaps you might consider this worthy project for a future blog?
Your rewards will be great in Heaven if you do!
Yes, the Marian Shrine in Bala,
Very interesting. I lived just outside Wrexham for a few years, and love the whole Snowdonia range, but I always knew that English people weren't welcome in Bala for some reason. This makes a lot of sense.
No,
Lake Bala. A village was cleared then flooded to make the lake. The lake supplies water to liverpool. Liverpool had a pretty large Welsh community, the Irish is well known. The Welsh not so much.
In the past a fair few English people moved to Wales raising housing prices and reducing availability to the native Welsh
There was also a time when criminals from Liverpool, Manchester etc would go to Wales to commit some pretty serious crimes. Burglaries, robberies, car thefts and selling contraband
I went to school in North Wales, not far from Ruthin in the late 70's
@@jazztheglass6139 That's not correct. The village of Capel Celyn was flooded to make way for Llyn (Lake) Tryweryn, a few miles from Bala. Llyn Tegid (Bala Lake) is a naturally formed lake and the source of the river Dee.
It makes no sense .
When the prisoners were released from Frongoch, I wonder which way they travelled back to Dublin via Holyhead? Did they catch a train from Frongoch station towards Bala and then onto Chester direction and then to Holyhead. Or did they catch a train the other way to Ffestiniog then Llandudno Jnc and onto Holyhead. It would make for a bit of interesting railway history.
I should imagine they split up into small groups all going in different directions, not to draw attention to themselves and in case the authorities changed their minds. They were all let out in small draughts anyway. My own Gran Uncle was a Category A prisoner (not because he was dangerous, but because he was well educated and considered a main influencer), and was not let out until December 23rd.
Fantastic. Thank you Erin, every day a school day. Btw history hons student
The IRA , Army of the Irish Republic , Irish Republican Army name predates that time by some decades . the IRA of 1916 composed of the irish volunteers/ICA et al, predates it too.
If anyone is interested in the true story of Frongoch they could read two books on the subject one published in 1987 -- FRONGOCH, UNIVERSITY OF REVOLUTION by SEAN O'MAHONY -- [my relatives are noted on the roll call] and FRON-GOCH AND THE BIRTHPLACE OF THE IRA by LYN EBENEZER published in 2006 and dedicated to Joe Clark.
In the first book, Mr O'Mahony lists the organisations which took part in the 1916 Rising : IRISH VOLUNTEERS; IRISH CITIZEN ARMY; HIBERNIAN RIFLES; CUMANN NA MBAN and the KIMMAGE GARRISON. The internment or concentration camp opened to Irish prisoners on 6th June 1916. They were brought by train.
The IRA are finished now, nobodies interested , they sold out twice, once in Collins era and once in Adams era and now the new IRA are nothing but a bunch of drug dealers. So I can respect the contributions of Terence McSwieney , Harry Boland , Constance Markiewicz, the 1981 hunger strikers , M- Farrell , the dark Hughes, Colin Duffy and others. Though, its dead! They've sold out the 32 county socialist Irish Republic that those mentioned fought and /or died for. Terence McSwieney died by hunger strike for what? So later MIcheal Collins and the free-state army can use British guns on IRA at the time, yet Collins is considered a hero by people in the south, why though?. Harry Boland shot by his own comrades hunger strikers left to die in their own excrement and the dark Hughes who give his lifetime in service of the Irish people who was left to die in a dingie flat in divis when he should of been given the medal of honour all of them should have. Its fecking rotten and sickening tbh
I have not been aware of this place before, but will certainly seek it out when over that way.
Fair play Erin..part of what got us the freedom to move and decide in our own nation
Clover hat
Thank you for the very informative video.
A nice little video on the history of the Irish Rebellion. Hopefully, Wales and Scotland can be free one day.
My god you have so much to say here but yet your channel has zero content. You are one of those comment BOTS the ones run by someone somewhere that pop up to attack comments that do not fit in well with some unknown person or organization. Explain why you have a big mouth here but a blank UA-cam channel. I don't think your post even makes any real sense either.@@DM-ur8vc
And Ireland as well
Free lol
Apparently, the SAS developed some of it's tactics from experience fighting the IRA.
The Boers taught all of you 😄
@@damianvisser977 Yup, they certainly gave the British a run for their money - ! 😆
@@damianvisser977 And the Australians brought in to fight the Boers in the same manner, taught them.
@@damianvisser977: Nothing we couldn’t have learned from ‘Rogers Rangers’.
After doing a little digging, a Gentleman who's Grandfather was in Frongoch informed me that the other camp was in Knutsford and not Winsford, still in Cheshire though 👍👍
Bravo!Erin thanks soo much.
I read about Frongoch in a book I read about Michael Collins (written by Tim Pat Coogan). Michael was at Frongoch. Fancy the IRA being born in a sleepy little village near Bala Wales. Amazing really. Thanks for the video
Definitely not the birth place.... But its a good story.
The IRA was already formed before 1916 , the irish republican army joined forces with the irish citizens army to form the main body of the rising on easter week 1916.
James Connolly commanded the smaller irish citizen army ( ~ 500 volunteers )
Eoin MacNeill was the leader of the bigger force the irish volunteers which had elements already called the IRA , im not sure if it was a brigade or just a name they used to call themselves. The Irish Republican Army as we know it mainly formed after 1916 to fight in the war of independence. They mainly consisted of members who stayed after the split between the Irish volunteers, Two groups emerged The National Volunteers and The Irish Volunteeers .
(~10,,000)
It's a huge part of my families history here in Ireland, never occured to me to check it out now? Or even to locate it on a map? So thanks😁
Very interesting cheers for the information 👍
This is absolutely fascinating
Thanks for this video about this oft forgotten but very important site for us Irish people.
Both my grandfather and great uncle were there . Sean Kelly and james(Seamus) Kelly.
Great bit of history and this lady is easy on eye also .
Not all prisoners were realised at the same time.
My Grandfather Edward Lyons was in the second lot, released at Christmas.
Dwi wastad yn cael teimlad annyfir wrth yrru drwy'r lle a nawr rwy'n gwybod pam.
What a load of old wank 🙄
Missed that when we visited Bala... enjoyed the steam railway though.
I want to here your thoughts on modern jails.
My Grandfathers brother Jack Corless was there with Michael Collins. He was tortured and had his eye cut out by the British. He used to make Dolls houses.idont think he ever came outside his house again after this experience.
Thank you
Great video!
A fine historic spot, thanks Erin.
My grandfather and his brother were sent there
IRA all woke now 😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
Brilliant my friend never new that
But a group calling themselves the Irish Republican Army invaded Canada in the 1800s under the control of the invincibles, who were the precursor to the Dynamiters... so before the 1916 uprising.
This was in the book "The Dynamiters: Irish Nationalism and Political Violence in the Wider World, 1867-1900" by Niall Whelehan.
@privatechannel8462, Wrong. They known as "The Fenian Brotherhood" made up of Irishmen who had fought in the American Civil War. Most were ex members of the Irish Brigade along with other Irish in US regiments which fought in the Civil War. It was these men, most poor and close to destitute, which changed by their courage and blood, the contempt and hate for the Irish in America. The Civil War ended in 1865 and the "invasion" of Canada was a squib. About two hundred thousand fought for the Union and about twenty thousand fought on the side of the Confederate States. And in at least two battles they fought one another close up. Men from Monaghan, Galway and Cork became Generals, having joined up as privates. General Patrick Cleburne from Cork was looked upon by Robert E. Lee as one of the greatest. General Thomas Francis Meagher was in command of the Union's Irish Brigade.
@ccahill2322 you say that. But its in the aforementioned book, which was Nialls thesis. Ill dig out the page number when i get a mo.
@@privatechannel8462, I gave you facts in my comment. I do not care about "Niall's thesis." He did not not do his research very well, if at all. I gave facts far beyond the narrow point of the false claim made. You may "believe" whatever you want but let "Niall" defend the claim you made.
@ccahill2322 let me dig out the paragraph. The book is very well researched. Ill be back once i find it.
I am not trying to argue.
There were 999 likes... so I made it 1000. Thats a first for me🎉
No, it is not. I understand the point you want to make. The cause of the War of Independence was complex but began with the plantation was totally driven by the British Government need to support the loyalists in the north. The British support for the invaders. Meant that all of those that sent them were responsible.
I visited here in early 2024 with My Irish uncle. He was upset at the state of the shredded flags flying, which turned out to be due to the brutal winds that blow through here. The flags have since been replaced with newer ones.
There is much more about to be exposed about the British Power in 2024 and what they were really upto for decades, even centuries. This is called the GREAT AWAKENING.
The IRA was not invented that prison. Michael Collins changed the name of the irb to the ira It's been around in one or another form since the United Irishmen 1790.
Ah thank you for this video, this was where they took my grandfather… he turn in his grave if he knew how the Irish politicians treat the people of Ireland now …. Worst than any British soldier ❤❤❤❤
It's was known as the Irish Republican brotherhood before the IRA