When my wife and I were having some complications to have a child, the thought of ivf crossed our minds several times ( even our gynaecologist suggested it ) but we felt we needed to check what the church says about it.. when we read up, with a shattered heart we offered it to the Lord and decided against ivf.. long story short... when we were just about to start the process for adoption, God blessed us with our very own 1st born.. ( the time before the pregnancy, we prayed and prayed.. it was a horrible period in a spiritual desert)... I don't why we went through it but the experience brought us more closer to God, the church's teachings.... With the way the excess embryos are dealt with in a lab for experiments, it make us feel proud that we chose right with God and the church...
Such a good story, I know it must have been heartbreaking and very hard to go through infertility but your child is lucky to have faithful obedient parents like you to look up to.
Wow! All glory to the most high God! God has a purpose with everythying. I was thinking about the moral stuff IVF involves. I was wondering what will happen to the embryos the couple will not choose? They are either killed or experimented in! This is satanic (baal story) but many won't see beyond their pain and rather choose to please their own wishes. Even "believers" instead of believing God for a miracle or just accepting God's will.
@@navinfernandes747 that's great for you. Your faith was rewarded. What about the couple who isn't as lucky ? Are they evil for wanting to experience pregnancy?
As an infertile woman, I pray everyday that I can conceive. But if God never gives me a biological child, I know I can always adopt and love a precious baby. Being a parent is not always about blood. Being a parent is taking care and loving a child.
🙏 I am so sorry about your fertility struggles and I truly hope you can conceive someday soon. 💓 I have the utmost love and respect for those who open their hearts to adoption but NO ONE should have the awful Hobson's choice of adopting or never raising children.
@@enjoyinglife7143 no u don’t. They participated in evil. That’s like saying if you are going to talk about the evils of witchcraft, you have to bring on an actual witch!?
I’m struggle with reproductive issues as well…it’s painful and distressing I absolutely empathize with your situation.. Adopting is not an option for some couples.. There’s availability issues…and there’s so many hoops to jump through..you can be ineligible if both parents work long hours at demanding jobs..which ironically is how you afford to give children the best opportunities in life.. For some IVF is their only option for having a family..
@@marlonmoncrieffe0728 Wow what is wrong with adopting? Better to adopt then kill your own children to have a child. Every person who uses IVF and does not implant every single embryo is a child murderer and has had an abortion.
I’m Catholic (&pro-life) and I was unaware of the harm of IVF until recently. Thank you for explaining this. I had donated money to a family member so that they could start a family through IVF. And I feel bad for contributing to that technology but now I know more. May God have mercy.
I would suggest you read the Catechism on this. It is about more than the loss of the embryos, which is bad enough. Children are meant to be the result of the loving procreative act. Full disclosure: my first child was conceived via IVF. I have confessed and repented despite of course loving my child just the same. I didn’t know the teaching at the time. Would I have acted differently at the time had I known? I am not sure, but I know that I would not do it again.
@@stooch66 I totally agree with what you stated on the natural procreative loving act. I definitely need to read the entire catechism. It’s on my to do list. I came back to the church a few years ago. Cradle Catholic revert as they say so I’m still learning much as I go. I do believe children are blessings no matter what but thank you for sharing.
@@jmkm333 like I said, I was where you are. These channels have helped me a lot in my deeper conversion to Christ and so has listening to the Catechism. I listen to it once a year now. I was a very poorly catechized cradle Catholic. Yes, the child is a blessing, but we don’t have a right to that blessing, regardless of the means. God bless you!
@@stooch66 I will definitely look into listening to the catechism through audiobook or something and read. And yes these channels have taught me so much also! I agree they are gifts, not rights. God bless you too 😊😊
@@jmkm333 “The Catholic Catechism” (1982 edition) by John Hardon, SJ, has the most beautiful discussion about marriage, sex, and children I have ever read, and explains beautifully why contraception, abortion, and artificial means of conception are so evil. His discussion on these issues is so breathtakingly beautiful that I cried as I read.
It is such a sensitive topic. Being Catholic (and knowing the evils of IVF), I usually come off as the "bad guy" whenever this subject comes up... "So they can't use a condom so as not to have children but those who are infertile can't use IVF to have children they want". People basically think I'm an uncaring git. Even though I feel very bad for them not being able to have children naturally... sigh... I just can't accept being morally inconsistent and it's hard to do so without coming off as uncaring, inflexible and "extreme"...
When you tell the truth, you always open yourself up to appear as if uncaring, inflexible, etc. But what you are doing is actually the greatest kindness, never forget that, never lose sight of that. "The greatest kindness one can render to any man consists of leading him from error to truth" -St. Thomas Aquinas
@@alyce-kayruckelshaus1224 it is also immoral. The child is being conceived in the same way, just implanted into a woman who isn’t the biological mother. It can also lead to abuse of vulnerable women who become the surrogates. India recently banned them because of this.
There is no life until God breaths the breath of life into your body. That can’t happen until someone is born. Genesis 2:7 Douay-Rheims Bible And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
I often wondered what the argument ‘against ivf’ sounded like. It’s true, you never hear this side at all. I did know that it didn’t sit right with me and now I have a valid reason. The fallout is heartbreaking. Those people are alive in stasis, with no protective laws.
It's clear that there are ethical boundaries that need to be respected but It's still a miracle for both couples and single people to be able to experience the joy of being a parent.
Before my conversion to the one true faith, my wife and I went to a fertility clinic. Fortunately or unfortunately, the doctor chided my wife for having waited until age 29 to begin treatment, and we abandoned course after that. However, if we had continued, they would have extracted and fertilized multiple eggs and then implanted the most viable of them, discarding the rest. In other words, they would have, by definition, aborted a number of our children. That is the reality of IVF in a nutshell.
@@Hispanocel The first verse is saying before there was anything to be formed. Before the zygote/fertilized egg was formed. Before conception. Before our parents knew each other. Before the creation of the universe God already knew what kind of persons we would be from eternity past. Where did you get the idiotic notion that "before I formed thee in the belly I knew you" Meant God is talking about fertilized eggs???
@@denniswakabayashi9000 God knew Jeremiah before he was formed, before people are formed or even conception it is biblical knowledge that God knows them, thus” “before you were In the womb I knew you”, him talking about Jeremiah doesn’t take away those powerful words
and embryo is a child at an early stage of development. you can freeze a child at this stage. there is no genetic difference between u and ur embryonic self.
@@thesavannahpictures96 lets not try to be a doctor when you are not a doctor. That’s like those people calling climate change a hoax because they don’t believe in science.
@@pritha12345 I do not need to be a doctor to know this. I know the commonly known scientific fact that upon the moment of conception, an embryo has a completely unique set of dna, infinitely complex, has never existed before and will never again. This DNA is different from the mother and father and is therefore its own separate organism. The fact that this organism is genetically human means it is a human at an early stage of development. The fact that it is human gives it innate value.
@@pritha12345 It is an entirely scientific logical conclusion and based on grade school science. I do not by any means intend to sound like a know it all.
@@thesavannahpictures96 really science book says that embryos at its nascent stage are children?? Which science book says that?? Please share the name.
We went through IVF and I'm happy to debate fellow Catholics on this issue. A bit of background. My wife struggled with endometriosis, cysts and had issues with her cervix as well. It was extremely painful for her and demoralizing. We tried for over 5 years to conceive with no success and the doctors told us we had a 2% chance even with fertility assisted medication. We waited a further 1 1/2 - 2 years after this news before making a final decision to go through IVF but we had some clear boundaries, the primary one being that we would not waste or destroyed embryos. After a series of painful injections on a daily basis, they extracted 10 eggs and only 3 took. This cost us over 15k and we are by no means wealthy, both working in social services. The first two of the three were showing signs of struggle and we ended up having to implant them both together (praying and hoping for twins at this point). One failed and the other took (we keep a picture of them both to remember). After a wonderous and anxious nine months we were blessed with a beautiful baby girl who is about to turn 1. She lights up the room and we thank God for her every day. The third embryo is currently in cryopresevation and we are excited and hopeful to try for another child in November. Now on to her talking points. 1. She claims that the process of IVF is more risky than insemination in the womb. I would like some actual evidence of this because failed pregnancies are tragically common and at varying stages. There are many reasons why this occurs and often it is around genetic viability. In some instances it is actually easier for an egg to implant and attach in the womb with IVF due to the assistance it receives (which we opted for). 2. I agree with her position of abandoned embryo's being frozen or stuck in time. We would never abandon our children to the dustbin of time. 3. Donations for scientific experimentation is abhorrent but should not be conflated with the other points of the debate. Examples of the 3 or 5 month fetus being used for experimentation etc. is barbaric but already echo's many of the arguments made by the prolife movement. The moral arguments surrounding the treatment of IVF embryo's versus natural pregnancies' should be no different, so I don't really get her argument. If she's advocating for laws protecting IVF embryo's then I fully agree. 4. She discussed how many embryo's are "killed" in the process of selection. While it is true that there are testing methodologies that can screen for genetic disorders or potential issues with chronozones, this is not compulsory and something we did not sign up for. We felt it was too invasive and did not want to go down the path of eugenics. I believe she is conflating two issues here, where a number of embryo's simply do not take when inseminated without interference. Some simply do not divide or stop dividing shortly afterwards for varying reasons. 5. Masturbation. Well, sure, I had to masturbate in a closed room. It was specifically for the creation of life and not self gratification. I can understand how this process is controversial as the responsibility surrounding it is monumental. I am not an authority by any means but I did want to share why we did what we did and what our perspectives around this are. If we have sinned than I pray for forgiveness but I believe we entered into this process with the mindset and behaviour of wanting to respect the sanctity of life. I however certainly do not want to lead anyone into sin so please speak to those whom you trust and respect first.
@@Jade_902you could say this about premature babies put in incubators… it’s a blessing to live in a time where people can conceive children, through modern tech. we don’t have to force ourselves to live in an ancient era…we can take advantage of these technologies so long as it’s not abused and unethical.
IVF miraculous coincidence ,after praying a novena to St Mary MacKillop On there 6 attempt using IVF this couple were blessed with twins which were born on the 8th of August, the feast day of .... St Mary MacKillop. Lots of valid points here and many difficulties to discern but also some beautiful people in this world thanks to it! God bless
Also, folks, God does things to show us what we really need and might close the door on things we want, and he does so with reason. Adoption is an option ❤️
There are a lot of good points in this video but I also think, IF carried out ethically, it can be wonderful. I am lying in bed right now, with my delightful IVF toddler lying next to me. We have a son who was conceived naturally who is 6 years older and then struggled to conceive and I miscarried twins over the period of 4/5 years. By that point, I was in my early 40s so we tried ivf. We had 3 embryos over 2 rounds of treatment. I miscarried one, one was lost during the transfer process, which was very similar to having a miscarriage- only worse as I felt the clinic had been careless with my child (I considered each one to be my child as soon as they were embryos) even though they had never had an accident like that in their entire history. The 3rd embryo is our beautiful daughter, who I feel is a blessing from God. We went through this process before I was born again (still praying for my husband) and I’m not sure I would see it differently even being born again. Even as a cultural Christian, I prayed a lot for a sibling for our child and was unsure about adoption as I had heard a story about a horrible failed adoption. I agree that the idea of people having lots of embryos frozen and potentially discarding them or having them used for “research” (rather than donating them for other ivf couples to use where they might not have successfully conceived embryos via ivf themselves) is abhorrent. However, to say that Christians should not use ivf, to me, is like saying if you get cancer you should just pray for healing and not have medical treatment….
My older brother and younger siblings were conceived out of wedlock. Some children are conceived in rape, some while cheating on ones spouse. Most or many were conceived in sin, but God knew us before we were born. As a pro life Catholic myself, I'm learning more everyday and with every new bit of knowledge, fully aware God loves me and you regardless of our sins, am striving to become a saint. That's our mission in this life.
This is a conversation that needs to be had. I have been wanting to have it for so long and cannot find where to go to do that. I have so many questions!
I have 2 brothers who were born this way. And I thank God for that miracle. My mother was told she couldn't have any more children. I understand the problems outside of the actual result of allowing them to have children. I dont like the fact that they can use those babies for experiments. But after my mother gave birth to my two little brothers, she donated the rest of the eggs she had to someone who also couldn't have children. So I don't think it's inherently a problem. It just depends on the parents decision on what to do with the rest of the unborn children they have.
But see that’s a problem in and of itself right there. Your mom, bless her soul, donated those embryos to do something nice for someone else, but now, she’s made it possible for your siblings or you to engage in incest. Now that possibility is somewhere out there, and you never know, this world is really small. These are the things people don’t think about. There are definitely many ethical concerns that come about with IVF
@@ntmn8444 Not to mention how does your mother deal with knowing that she intentionally created children that she did not take care of? How does she sleep knowing she only loved two of her children enough to raise them?
It was mention in the Bible when God made Adam and Eve from dirt and they had their own babies Cain and Abel and had daughters and other sons also. Their sons grew up they got married to their sisters and had babies with their sisters .God allow Adam and Eve sons to get marry have sex with their sisters and have babies with them.God then decide it was wrong and it was incest for brothers to marry their sisters and let them them have babies with their sisters so he decided to make more human being from man ribs.
My Lord😢🙏🏻I am so sorry about this. I know something about IVF but I had never looked at it as profoundly as this. Thank you for sharing this. Lord have mercy🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻😢And I have lots of friends who conceived in this way. Truly the devil makes sin look like a good thing.🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I don't think this clip does the full argument justice, Matt. It makes IVF seem bad becuase of the shortcomings, mistakes, or chosen deaths of other embryos which doesn't sit well with the natural deaths/shortcomings of natural firtilization and births, such as miscarriages. If our technology could perform IVF without fail, would it then be morally acceptable? Perhaps this video should've focused on Natural Law as the basis of her argument.
Many people act as if "natural" is moral while "unnatural" is not without justifying the claim. (Related is vs ought" fallacy?) Most of medicine is fighting natural processes, yet we deem it moral. Not saying an argument couldn't be made for natural conception, but you do need to make it.
As an IVF baby, I am thankful to be alive and dismayed people think me and my siblings shouldn’t be here. Completely disagree with this take. You do not have to freeze embryos.
@@denniswakabayashi9000 Depends on the way the patient elects to do it. Thankfully, there are options that are good for Christians. Once embryos are fertilized, they actually have a higher chance of implantation than during natural conception. Moreover, the risks to the embryo is no greater than in a natural pregnancy. Most people are outraged by frozen embryos which I do not agree with either but you can choose to have no frozen embryos.
@@denniswakabayashi9000 I think people outraged by IVF need to take a developmental biology course before speaking about it. I’m pursuing an MD and the misinformation in this comment section is harmful. This is a great option for women with PCOS, endometriosis, fallopian tube obstruction, anovulation, etc. Be thankful you could conceive children before throwing stones at those who struggled.
@@Mel-zv1gf "Depends on the way" What are you babbling about??? You go into the process of assisted reproduction with the expectation that some or all of the embryos created will die.
@@Mel-zv1gf Main cause of infertility with females is the failure to ovulate. So a needle is inserted into the vagina to retrieve the eggs. These eggs would not have been naturally fertilized since no egg was being released from the ovaries to have a chance to be fertilized. Assisted reproduction does not ONLY include IVF but egg retrieval and a single sperm cell injected into an egg. You created embryos that would not have been created naturally Where you had the expectation that some if not all the embryos will die.
I will admit though I am pro life I was born from IVF so I can’t be agianst it because I’m glad to be alive and I’m glad my sister is alive. My mom had pcos and my dad was in his early 60s so they couldn’t have a child naturally so they did IVF. Then when I was eight after my dad died my mom gave birth to another one of the IVF babies because I told her I wanted a baby sister and she wanted me to have a family because my dads other children didn’t want anything to do with me and we lived in a different state and weren’t close with my moms side of the family. She had my sister who we named Rose, she still has several other babies that are frozen and she’s still thinking about what to do with them, she refuses to allow them to be experimented on but still hasn’t found anyone to donate them to. Was my birth natural, no but I’m glad it happend.
@@jonathanthainguyen it’s complicated, my mom grew up Christian, Catholic I think and my dad was Jewish. My dad died when I was one and his family didn’t want me so I wasn’t introduced to the Jewish faith. My moms an atheist though so I was raised atheist and I still am kind of, I do believe in god and I believe in Jesus and that he was the messiah, this will sound crazy but I think gods sent multiple different messiahs in different parts of the world based on who and what he thought would influence the people there more.
I pray she never deals with infertility. 1/8 women struggle with infertility. She has no right to speak on whether IVF is okay or no. Haven’t been through it, the struggle of having constant miscarriages, not being able to conceive and desperately wanting a baby, then shut up❤️all love and respect.
We are not promised children or motherhood/fatherhood. It’s a hard pill to swallow in a world so ugly, but truth is truth no matter how much it hurts. I was diagnosed with cancer at 23 in 2024. 2 weeks later I missed my period and on my 24th birthday I found out that I was pregnant with our first child. Between when I found out I had cancer and when I found out that I was pregnant, I had many tests, biopsies, and so on to determine stage and diagnosis. I was told what my treatment would be and the side effects one of which was possible infertility. I was recommended by my medical team to look into IVF if I wanted to preserve my fertility (I did not know I was pregnant at this time as it was within that period before I knew). Being Catholics, my husband and I both knew that IVF was wrong, but didn’t fully understand why. We agreed to at least go to the clinic to hear them out and upon leaving we were even more convinced that it was not for us and immoral. When I found out I was pregnant a few days later, it was not about me anymore. I decided to postpone chemotherapy for 3 months based off research that suggests chemotherapy is safer in the second/third trimester rather than the first. I was lucky that none of my doctors recommended abortion. 60% of doctors still do according to the Hope For Two Foundation that is a pregnancy and cancer research organization. I am now 34 weeks pregnant and will be giving birth to our baby girl soon. I still have treatment after she is born, and I haven’t been able to be scanned to see if the chemotherapy is working, but according to my clinical response, it is. Long story short, my baby came at a really “inconvenient” time (she was never seen as an inconvenience). I may not be able to have children after her or I might! Who knows but God. Before knowing about the pregnancy, I had to come to terms with the fact that we are not promised children or motherhood/fatherhood and subverting the natural order of things isn’t the right means to an end no matter what it is for. Even with the blessing of my baby, that is a lesson that still applies as I have always dreamed of a large family, but I may not be able to make that happen. But who knows but God! I know still I wouldn’t choose IVF or surrogacy to create more children. Who are we to play God for our knowledge of time and space is so futile?
I’m ashamed I had no idea about the harmful things that come from IVF. I never seen the evil in it, I knew it wasn’t right, only God should have the power to create life. But my goodness thank you for making this video and shinning light on this darkness that is happening in our world. May God have mercy on their souls, and save those babies. 🙏🏽 Brothers and sisters let us all pray for judges who sit in power to make laws; we must pray that they put laws against the use of embryos in experiments!!!
it seems lila wants everything she doesn’t personally agree with to be illegal. in vitro has been a life saver for many families that couldn’t conceive naturally. if you can’t conceive and you don’t want to do in vitro, that is your own choice to make, but you simply don’t have the right to take that choice away from other couples.
I've been aware of these negative aspects of IVF - the unnecessary destruction of God's children. And try to remember to pray for them and logically or not feel some guilt that I'm not doing anything else to help prevent this.
Even though I am a Catholic, I would say that I do not agree. If your intention is to create life, a very different logic applies than in the case of abortion. The wilfull destruction of embryo's (even though purely cellular) remains problematic, but since there is never the intention to kill embryo's, I think that the technology can be defended. Nevertheless, I am not sure whether I would personally be willing to make use of it.
@@trismegistus2881 it's a very unfortunate situation because the intentions of those who use IVF and almost always good and noble and your heart breaks for those who have to go through those lengths to have children. But if you accept IVF, you have to as a consequence accept things you ought not to.
(I say this just to help you consider other aspects :) Remember that with IVF they always implant more than one embryo, which means they always intend to abort at least one child. So even though they may be intending to help the woman conceive, it is always costing at least one other life. Not to mention the consequences of keeping frozen embryos as mentioned in the video. Makes my skin crawl. Here are a couple of links to look into as well: cultureoflife.org/2020/01/24/a-hard-truth-ivf-is-not-moral/ www.hli.org/resources/catechism-of-the-catholic-church-ivf/ studentsforlife.org/2019/07/21/the-pro-life-response-to-the-ivf-dilemma/
@@allioop8156 thank you, your reaction is greatly appreciated. I would say that the missing 'unitive aspect of procreation' seems less important to me than the embryo's which can't be 'used' in the process and are disgarded. Just like in the case of abortion, a lot of gruesome but important details are sadly omitted from the public discussion.
This is very true. It’s such a hard pill to swallow and sometimes it feels impossible! I was diagnosed with cancer at 23 in 2024. 2 weeks later I missed my period and on my 24th birthday I found out that I was pregnant with our first child. Between when I found out I had cancer and when I found out that I was pregnant, I had many tests, biopsies, and so on to determine stage and diagnosis. I was told what my treatment would be and the side effects one of which was possible infertility. I was recommended by my medical team to look into IVF if I wanted to preserve my fertility (I did not know I was pregnant at this time as it was within that period before I knew). Being Catholics, my husband and I both knew that IVF was wrong, but didn’t fully understand why. We agreed to at least go to the clinic to hear them out and upon leaving we were even more convinced that it was not for us and immoral. When I found out I was pregnant a few days later, it was not about me anymore. I decided to postpone chemotherapy for 3 months based off research that suggests chemotherapy is safer in the second/third trimester rather than the first. I was lucky that none of my doctors recommended abortion. 60% of doctors still do according to the Hope For Two Foundation that is a pregnancy and cancer research organization. I am now 34 weeks pregnant and will be giving birth to our baby girl soon. I still have treatment after she is born, and I haven’t been able to be scanned to see if the chemotherapy is working, but according to my clinical response, it is. Long story short, my baby came at a really “inconvenient” time (she was never seen as an inconvenience). I may not be able to have children after her or I might! Who knows but God. Before knowing about the pregnancy, I had to come to terms with the fact that we are not promised children or motherhood/fatherhood and subverting the natural order of things isn’t the right means to an end no matter what it is for. Even with the blessing of my baby, that is a lesson that still applies as I have always dreamed of a large family, but I may not be able to make that happen. But who knows but God! I know still I wouldn’t choose IVF or surrogacy to create more children. Trust in him for EVERYTHING.
I have cancer. I am only 34 years old and have not yet had children. I am currently undergoing IVF to preserve my fertility. The catholic church might not agree with me but I want to be to have a family. If the worst happens, my sisters are willing to donate their eggs to me in the future after I beat cancer.
@@anastrawberry8047 it’s glioma, so it’s incurable. I only trust my oncologist on this and nobody else. I went through egg freezing but it’s not a cure. Most of us relapse during pregnancy. It becomes a no man’s world of what to do. Attempt pregnancy but abort whenever things are ruled unsafe, surrogacy etc.
I was diagnosed with cancer at 23 in 2024. 2 weeks later I missed my period and on my 24th birthday I found out that I was pregnant with our first child. Between when I found out I had cancer and when I found out that I was pregnant, I had many tests, biopsies, and so on to determine stage and diagnosis. I was told what my treatment would be and the side effects one of which was possible infertility. I was recommended by my medical team to look into IVF if I wanted to preserve my fertility (I did not know I was pregnant at this time as it was within that period before I knew). Being Catholics, my husband and I both knew that IVF was wrong, but didn’t fully understand why. We agreed to at least go to the clinic to hear them out and upon leaving we were even more convinced that it was not for us and immoral. When I found out I was pregnant a few days later, it was not about me anymore. I decided to postpone chemotherapy for 3 months based off research that suggests chemotherapy is safer in the second/third trimester rather than the first. I was lucky that none of my doctors recommended abortion. 60% of doctors still do according to the Hope For Two Foundation that is a pregnancy and cancer research organization. I am now 34 weeks pregnant and will be giving birth to our baby girl soon. I still have treatment after she is born, and I haven’t been able to be scanned to see if the chemotherapy is working, but according to my clinical response, it is. Long story short, my baby came at a really “inconvenient” time (she was never seen as an inconvenience). I may not be able to have children after her or I might! Who knows but God. Before knowing about the pregnancy, I had to come to terms with the fact that we are not promised children or motherhood/fatherhood and subverting the natural order of things isn’t the right means to an end no matter what it is for. Even with the blessing of my baby, that is a lesson that still applies as I have always dreamed of a large family, but I may not be able to make that happen. But who knows but God! I know still I wouldn’t choose IVF or surrogacy to create more children. Trust in him for EVERYTHING.
Although not religious, I'm a spiritual person... and IVF is so creepy and morally wrong to me. I'm getting annoyed at all the women in my life pushing me to do it because I've been having trouble conceiving. I've been told maybe I don't want a child badly enough if I don't pursue IVF, but the thought of my child living its first moments in a petri dish is CREEPY! I want my child in my womb, where they're meant to be.
But the more important reason why IVF is not allowed is because we cannot separate the unitive and procreative aspects of sex. It destroys a marriage when the marriage is not open to life, i.e. that every time a husband and wife come together to celebrate the sacrament of marriage, they have the possibility of creating new life. That is why every form of contraception is morally unacceptable. it also applies to IUI and IVF. The procreative aspect of bringing a child into the world has to be within the unitive aspect of sex.
Honestly, I’d pass a law making IVF only available to those with documented fertility issues. Also Lila, talking about masturbation as a “moral complication” really? This isn’t 1932.
This is completely off topic Matt, but how do you feel about the American solidarity party when it comes to American national politics? I understand the use Catholic social teaching as a basis for their political stances, but it seems like no one's ever given them traction.
Natural rate of miscarriage of fertilized zygotes is 30-50%. Those over 40 may approach 80%. Clearly the speaker is making a cumalitive argument, but at the very least a high miscarriage rate is not inherently a reason against IVF. Certainly it may be higher now with IVF, but if we practiced on dogs/apes the rate might actually be lower than natural conception. Ought we to only use IVF if that were the case since human life is sacred? Obviously that is conceptual since we are using humans to improve the technology as well as animals, but at least it shows the immorality is not inherent but relative to miscarriage rates This does not address her other arguments of course, but some of them are trivial (wives can help their husbands obtain sperm).
When she talks about the death rate of embryos, I think she’s talking about all of them in general, not just the ones used in transfers and successful to implant. Quite often dozens of embryos are created and only a handful are given the opportunity to be transferred (and hopefully implant). In that case, the rate of death is very high. Miscarriages from embryos that were successful to implant is completely different.
She mentions the high miscarriage rate because it is one thing to naturally miscarry but another to purposefully put children in a situation where they are likely to die.
@@Mjl449 valid point and why I am uncomfortable with it. Still seems IVF isn't inherently wrong in that regard - only relatively wrong given current technology. One could advocate we improve the method in animals until it leads to less death than natural conception Of course this is only one part of her argument.
@@sophiapearl4942 Attempting to concieve naturally, if one is aware of the the science at the time, is purposefully (i.e. aware and accepting the risk) putting children at risk. Even more so if you are older than 35. Everyone who intends to have more than 3 children will more likely than not have a miscarriage (most without being aware of it). That said, IVF certainly has a much higher rate of zygote death currently but the difference is relative (and due to the system) and not inherent. If IVF had 0% chance of miscarriage would it not be the better option? That said, my argument more philosophical than practical given current state of the technology
@@natew6203 My point is that those miscarriages are at least springing from a natural process. The miscarriage rate does not have much bearing on the morality of IVF but it is still worth mentioning even if it isn’t a solid argument against it.
How do you know Satan didn't give us IVF? To say that just because your alive negates the evil in IVF by comparing it to modern medicine is a poor argument. You do not need to have a child. The fact that someone is alive is the by the goodness of God but does not erase the evil of many dead for the desire and will of your parents.
As a christian I'm still struggling to see how you account for a children born directly through IVF though. Like...a child is alive. Does God celebrate life or no? Is that child a mistake or no? On so many levels this argument is problematic to me. The argument that embryos could be used unethically or immorally says nothing about IVF at all. People unethically handle drugs....should we ban all drugs? It seems this argument against IVF has too many shaky premises and "what-if" statements that don't really provide direct support for the argument.
You may not have watched the video to the end, but the speaker directly said a child from ivf is not a mistake/problem. God wouldn't see it that way and neither does the Catholic Church. All life is sacred. That being said, I think what you were trying to say is that this video clip doesn't address wether or not ivf would be an okay thing to do if it were used properly. The video only say ivf is bad because of how it's done. And the current practice is bad because it directly causes the death of many embryos (persons) just so one life can be born. We don't trade lives. The current practice is horrible. But it would be really interesting to hear a discussion about if it'd be okay to do ivf if the process did not involve experimenting on and killing multiple embryos, but instead only created one embryo and implanted it. So the real question is, if it was done with only one embryo involved, would it be okay? I hope they discuss it in a future video.
Okay, Im not an expert but lets see if i can help, So, God basically still gives the grace needed for the child to be born in cases of IVF but he doesn't approve of the way the child was made. It's like if you steal money from the rich and give it to the poor, while giving to the poor is something to celebrate, the wicked action of stealing remains wrong. For the drugs, question, in this case of IVF, you are putting a unethically handling someone else's life without their consent, its like forcing a vaccine or medicine which may or may not work. People should have the right to choose their own medicine. Same way you can't force someone to be born via IVF cos its against embryo rights.
I think Lila really wanted to stress how IVF harms and kills children, which is of course the more urgent and persuasive issue of this topic - but the fundamental moral reason why it's wrong to create a child using IVF is because it separates the procreative aspect of the marital act (ie: sex) from the unitive one. For the same reasons it's wrong to masturbate, to have homosexual sex, or to contracept - these acts all divorce these two ends and are therefore intrinsically disordered. The Catechism declared the “inseparability principle” regarding the two ends: “the twofold end of marriage, the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couples’ spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family.” (§2363) The Catechism also teaches magisterially that “a child does not come from outside as something added on to the mutual love of the spouses, but springs from the very heart of the mutual giving, as its fruit and fulfillment.” (§2366) I would encourage you to look into this further and really examine Catholic social teachings on why God created sex and for what ends it was intended.
@@Lovrofthearts you get it! CONGRATULATIONS. Why is this so hard for "Catholics" to understand? It is also why so many are leery about getting the covid vaccine
Married for 6 years now and unable to get pregnant I’ve been labeled as infertile. Some have told me that one could be morally “safe” if they just implant all the embryos that were created in the lab. The problem with implanting them all is that inevitably the majority will fail to implant (i.e. will die). For example if you implant 4 embryos and only 1 implants, then three embryos (lives) are lost. That is more lives lost than during one typical abortion. To sacrifice three lives just to successfully acquire one is obviously ethically and morally wrong. Who is responsible before God for these lives lost?? I say this with a real fear of God: now at the age of 44 I’ve had to contemplate these stark realities while facing the fact that I most likely won’t have children since my conscience and fear of God will now allow me to go the route of IVF.
As someone with family trying IVF, I think that the level of judgement and overconfidence that you have to have to say something like this is toxic. I think you’ll run your life into a wall.
I have a question for anyone who may be anti-abortion. What if a 10 year old girl falls pregnant as a result of sexual abuse? Whether or not this particular hypothetical describes most abortions is not the point, the point is the hypothetical is totally realistic. In 2015, it made national headlines when a 10 year old girl in Paraguay fell pregnant as a result of rape perpetrated by her step father. One of the most common arguments by pro-life people is that child bearing is a natural part of being biologically female. For the most part, that is true. However, science teaches us that, when a girl first begins puberty, even though she is technically capable of reproducing, her body is not quite ready to do so. Statistics show that mothers under 15 years of age are five times more likely to die compared to adult women who give birth. I must ask all pro-life people this one question? If a 10 year old girl falls pregnant as a result of rape, should be be forced by law to remain pregnant or should she be allowed to terminate the pregnancy? If you said that she 10 year old sexual assault survivor should be allowed to get an abortion, I have some follow up questions. Should a 25 year old woman, who falls pregnant due to sexual assault, be allowed to abort? If not, then at what age does a female pass the cut off where abortion should no longer be legal? If, however, you believe that the 25 year old, who fell pregnant due to rape, should be allowed an abortion, should a 25 year old, who falls pregnant due to consensual sex, also be allowed an abortion? If you answered no, then A, why is aborting a pregnancy that resulted from consensual sex morally different from aborting a pregnancy that resulted from rape? And B, what if a woman lies about having been raped, so that she can have an abortion? Does she have to prove that she was raped before she can get the abortion? The investigation could turn up inconclusive. The investigation might take so long, that the pregnant woman ends up giving birth, before the investigation is over. There exist people who believe that abortion should be reserved for cases of rape. That is a lot simpler in concept than it is to execute. However, there also exist people who believe that abortion should be illegal, even when the pregnancy results from sexual assault. If you do that you will have children, who are not even old enough to be left home without a babysitter in some states, will be forced to give birth. If you believe that a pregnant 10 year old should be forced to give birth, I have another question. How would you feel about a policy that would allow for you to get sterilized, as soon as you hit puberty, whether you have your parents permission or not. If a girl hits puberty at 13, she can go to the free clinic to get sterilized and she does not need her parents’ permission. There is no age that a girl has to be to get sterilized per se, but she has to hit puberty. A complete abortion ban would force girls, who aren’t old enough to be left home without a babysitter in many US states, to give birth. If you are okay with that, then logically you should be okay with minors being sterilized without their parents’ permission, as holding any other stance would be saying that a 13 year old is mature enough to handle child birth, but not mature enough to handle under going surgery of which her parents don’t approve.
The minors that should be sterilized, in an an abortion free society, should be male. Not female. Women have enough to deal with, when it comes to reproductive rights.
There is much to be said about the snowflake babies. ❄ lots of them get destroyed. It is just not a good idea to play gods. This technology has also led to hybrid Frankenstein experiments. Part human, part animal.
I am an atheist and generally pro-choice (in most cases) but I really didn't know that much about IVF so this is interesting! So it's not immoral in of itself but it being encouraged in society can lead to some immoral actions. That makes sense
Is anyone organizing a march in DC this Summer to respond to the radical Lefts march this week? If not, I think we should organize one to show the left that the energy is on the side of life.
I hate to nit pick. But when Lila said that "Masturbation is a moral complication problem" erm ... There is no complication. No complication at all. In fact it is very un-complicated. Fact: masturbation is a mortal sin.
I agree with most things she says but the IVF thing when it comes to couples who automatically do IVF ( and don’t freeze them or give them to science and who demand the rest of embryos be given to the couple to disregard/bury) anyway maybe God gave doctors the wisdom on how to take his creation to his his people to help make a baby and he told in the Bible to procreate. But I do agree that eggs and more should not be frozen, stored, experimented on ect…
I'm not sure how to ask this, but isn't it the same thing when you are not conceiving naturally and your period comes instead of a pregnancy, that that egg and sperm with the potential of giving life have gone to waste? It wasn't the result of a human life and rejected itself from the woman's body. My mother had the experience six times after learning she had conceived a fetus, somehow her own body didn't support the pregnancy and resulted in a natural loss of her baby by miscarriage, not an abortion, so what is happening there concerning the church's view on prevention of life? It could be said that God didn't prevent those loss of lives or the babies would have lived and would have been born. The. babies died in utero. Also do you ever think of baby Jesus as the first ever in vitro baby? This child was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit through God, not actually by a natural conception of the marriage of Joseph and Mary and baby Jesus was placed into Mary's womb to grow into a baby. Is that not how Jesus was brought into the world? It seems to support in vitro as being perfectly alright. I'm just asking. I am struggling with fertility issues. I have never conceived and I am considering at almost 44 trying an in vitro chance. What is the difference if your conceived fetus stops living inside your natural body or in a freezer? It's a miscarriage either way. As well frozen embryos have the chance to be adopted and in a way have a better chance at survival instead of being rejected by a human womb. Don't you think?
Please use paragraphs, its difficult to read. I am not a medical expert but yes, embryos do not take for a variety of reasons, some of which are genetic viability. Sometimes the egg simply does not attach to the womb and is lost. Miscarriage's are tragic and can occur at any stage of pregnancy. I wont go into the immaculate conception argument because it is a miracle of God and I am woefully inadequate to address it. Adopting frozen embryo's is an option made available although I would stress that simply having multiple children is a better strategy. We were willing to have upwards of 4 to 5 children if faced with that decision, no matter how unlikely that may have been. I wrote an outline of me and my wife's experiences when going through IVF and our thought process when going through with the procedure. Feel free to go over it and respond if you like. Adopting frozen
Could IVF be done in a moral way? I have triplet brothers-in-law from this; the parents didn't discard any embryos, and kept all the kids that "latched". They did their darndest to save as much life as they created. If no life is ended or frozen in time with malice aforethought, could it be done morally?
I married a woman who had 2 IVF babies in a previous marriage. (Her first husband was sterile). I did not give proper consideration to all of the ramifications of this, all I knew at the time is that I had “fallen in love.” Well, the girls accidentally found out about their origin story at an early age. I am now divorced after a 23-year marriage. I’m convinced that the IVF story played a huge role. At the end of the day my wife and I had two children of our own, the old-fashioned way. So this means she had four children with three different men, two of those men she had never met or even laid eyes on. Bizarre.
What's happening to these babies? It's a scary thought to think that these embryos aren't protected, like Lila said. If they really wanted to, these scientists could be growing babies in incubators! How EVIL that would be! I just can't put anything past the abortion industries mode of operation
Serious question though, I carry a severe genetic illness, would it not be better to do ivf than risk having a child with this illness? I had a child before I was aware but now that I am, is it not better to do ivf?
you can make the best decision for yourself and your family. this is just one opinion on IVF and it's pretty extreme. there are many information videos out there that are less biased against it.
I hear in Ireland it’s actually a lot of the reformational folk that are actually pro life and so it’s sort of ended up the other way around there. However, I have never and would never consider IVF and because of simply that, I did not imagine some of these points. That really is awful to consider. Just not a nice thing to imagine. Set your mind on higher things. Yes though now you know though, it is important to help ensure proper seeds are planted… unfortunately now there is a devils seed being brought up here possibly. That’s unfortunate.
If you believe life begin's at conception why not name the "child", or give it funeral, and burial rites in the case of miscarriage? And don't tell me it's because the prospective mother had already just gone through a horrible experience, why put her through more? Then you're saying it's about the mother, and not the "child."
Just by Nicola saying she is from the "North" of Ireland gives away what side of the house she is from. 😂 She may be running in my area, no clue but I would support if she was.
IVF is a technology many couples partake in due to trouble conceiving. The costs are really expensive which can cause some of those parents to stop after failed attempts and not being able to afford more tries. It seems like the backend needs laws to protect the embryos that are not going to be used for their original purpose.
So basically if you and your wife wait till marriage, dont use any protection becouse its evil i guess,pray and pray to be fruitful and multiple like god says, and it turns out becouse of a medical condition you cant have one naturally,your fucked?
The arguments in this video are bad. :30 Whether the egg extraction procedures are damaging to the woman is irrelevant to whether it is moral. :43 What is the moral complication of masturbation? How is that immoral? 1:00 Not convinced by this point either. In regular sexual intercourse, embryos may die within the first few weeks before a woman even realizes she's pregnant. No one considers this immoral. This is recognized as a normal part of biology. 1:05 Whether it happens naturally is irrelevant to whether it should be allowed. If I made an artificial heart that can save lives, I shouldn't use it because it is unnatural, I should let the person die? Is that the logic? 1:15 Seems like you should pass a law dictating how many embryos can be created and how many have to be used before new ones can be created. Better to pass laws regulating a practice than to ban it outright. 2:03 High risk and existing compared to no risk by not existing at all? On net, the world is better off by IVF babies existing through a risky procedure than not existing at all. 2:28 Seems like you should pass laws granting legal status rather than ban the practice. 2:30 Are you saying that there is an obligation to take care of a defective embryos that has no chance of ever living? Why? Or is our obligation to just provide reasonable care? 3:08 Well, you actually are saying that these children are a mistake. If you had your way, these children would never exist because you would ban the means by which they are created. How is that not saying that these children are a mistake?
I agree with her and so does the Catholic church. I was diagnosed with cancer at 23 in 2024. 2 weeks later I missed my period and on my 24th birthday I found out that I was pregnant with our first child. Between when I found out I had cancer and when I found out that I was pregnant, I had many tests, biopsies, and so on to determine stage and diagnosis. I was told what my treatment would be and the side effects one of which was possible infertility. I was recommended by my medical team to look into IVF if I wanted to preserve my fertility (I did not know I was pregnant at this time as it was within that period before I knew). Being Catholics, my husband and I both knew that IVF was wrong, but didn’t fully understand why. We agreed to at least go to the clinic to hear them out and upon leaving we were even more convinced that it was not for us and immoral. When I found out I was pregnant a few days later, it was not about me anymore. I decided to postpone chemotherapy for 3 months based off research that suggests chemotherapy is safer in the second/third trimester rather than the first. I was lucky that none of my doctors recommended abortion. 60% of doctors still do according to the Hope For Two Foundation that is a pregnancy and cancer research organization. I am now 34 weeks pregnant and will be giving birth to our baby girl soon. I still have treatment after she is born, and I haven’t been able to be scanned to see if the chemotherapy is working, but according to my clinical response, it is. Long story short, my baby came at a really “inconvenient” time (she was never seen as an inconvenience). I may not be able to have children after her or I might! Who knows but God. Before knowing about the pregnancy, I had to come to terms with the fact that we are not promised children or motherhood/fatherhood and subverting the natural order of things isn’t the right means to an end no matter what it is for. Even with the blessing of my baby, that is a lesson that still applies as I have always dreamed of a large family, but I may not be able to make that happen. But who knows but God! I know still I wouldn’t choose IVF or surrogacy to create more children.
When my wife and I were having some complications to have a child, the thought of ivf crossed our minds several times ( even our gynaecologist suggested it ) but we felt we needed to check what the church says about it.. when we read up, with a shattered heart we offered it to the Lord and decided against ivf.. long story short... when we were just about to start the process for adoption, God blessed us with our very own 1st born.. ( the time before the pregnancy, we prayed and prayed.. it was a horrible period in a spiritual desert)... I don't why we went through it but the experience brought us more closer to God, the church's teachings.... With the way the excess embryos are dealt with in a lab for experiments, it make us feel proud that we chose right with God and the church...
And God bless yall. Thank you father.
Such a good story, I know it must have been heartbreaking and very hard to go through infertility but your child is lucky to have faithful obedient parents like you to look up to.
@@BXMKE all glory to God who helped us discern well and prevented us from a mortal sin...
Wow! All glory to the most high God! God has a purpose with everythying. I was thinking about the moral stuff IVF involves. I was wondering what will happen to the embryos the couple will not choose? They are either killed or experimented in! This is satanic (baal story) but many won't see beyond their pain and rather choose to please their own wishes. Even "believers" instead of believing God for a miracle or just accepting God's will.
@@navinfernandes747 that's great for you. Your faith was rewarded.
What about the couple who isn't as lucky ?
Are they evil for wanting to experience pregnancy?
As an infertile woman, I pray everyday that I can conceive. But if God never gives me a biological child, I know I can always adopt and love a precious baby. Being a parent is not always about blood. Being a parent is taking care and loving a child.
🙏 I am so sorry about your fertility struggles and I truly hope you can conceive someday soon.
💓 I have the utmost love and respect for those who open their hearts to adoption but NO ONE should have the awful Hobson's choice of adopting or never raising children.
OK…..if you are talking about the evils of IVF….you NEED to bring on a loving couple who have had children by IVF and have this discussion with them.
@@enjoyinglife7143 no u don’t. They participated in evil. That’s like saying if you are going to talk about the evils of witchcraft, you have to bring on an actual witch!?
I’m struggle with reproductive issues as well…it’s painful and distressing
I absolutely empathize with your situation..
Adopting is not an option for some couples..
There’s availability issues…and there’s so many hoops to jump through..you can be ineligible if both parents work long hours at demanding jobs..which ironically is how you afford to give children the best opportunities in life..
For some IVF is their only option for having a family..
@@marlonmoncrieffe0728 Wow what is wrong with adopting? Better to adopt then kill your own children to have a child. Every person who uses IVF and does not implant every single embryo is a child murderer and has had an abortion.
I’m Catholic (&pro-life) and I was unaware of the harm of IVF until recently. Thank you for explaining this. I had donated money to a family member so that they could start a family through IVF. And I feel bad for contributing to that technology but now I know more. May God have mercy.
I would suggest you read the Catechism on this. It is about more than the loss of the embryos, which is bad enough. Children are meant to be the result of the loving procreative act.
Full disclosure: my first child was conceived via IVF. I have confessed and repented despite of course loving my child just the same. I didn’t know the teaching at the time. Would I have acted differently at the time had I known? I am not sure, but I know that I would not do it again.
@@stooch66 I totally agree with what you stated on the natural procreative loving act. I definitely need to read the entire catechism. It’s on my to do list. I came back to the church a few years ago. Cradle Catholic revert as they say so I’m still learning much as I go. I do believe children are blessings no matter what but thank you for sharing.
@@jmkm333 like I said, I was where you are. These channels have helped me a lot in my deeper conversion to Christ and so has listening to the Catechism. I listen to it once a year now. I was a very poorly catechized cradle Catholic.
Yes, the child is a blessing, but we don’t have a right to that blessing, regardless of the means.
God bless you!
@@stooch66 I will definitely look into listening to the catechism through audiobook or something and read. And yes these channels have taught me so much also!
I agree they are gifts, not rights. God bless you too 😊😊
@@jmkm333 “The Catholic Catechism” (1982 edition) by John Hardon, SJ, has the most beautiful discussion about marriage, sex, and children I have ever read, and explains beautifully why contraception, abortion, and artificial means of conception are so evil. His discussion on these issues is so breathtakingly beautiful that I cried as I read.
It is such a sensitive topic. Being Catholic (and knowing the evils of IVF), I usually come off as the "bad guy" whenever this subject comes up... "So they can't use a condom so as not to have children but those who are infertile can't use IVF to have children they want". People basically think I'm an uncaring git. Even though I feel very bad for them not being able to have children naturally... sigh... I just can't accept being morally inconsistent and it's hard to do so without coming off as uncaring, inflexible and "extreme"...
This was really good. I didn't understand all this before. What is the Catholic church's stand on using a surrogate mother? (New Catholic here.)
When you tell the truth, you always open yourself up to appear as if uncaring, inflexible, etc.
But what you are doing is actually the greatest kindness, never forget that, never lose sight of that.
"The greatest kindness one can render to any man consists of leading him from error to truth"
-St. Thomas Aquinas
@@alyce-kayruckelshaus1224 it is also immoral. The child is being conceived in the same way, just implanted into a woman who isn’t the biological mother. It can also lead to abuse of vulnerable women who become the surrogates. India recently banned them because of this.
There is no life until God breaths the breath of life into your body. That can’t happen until someone is born.
Genesis 2:7 Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
You have a face inside the womb too!
So thankful you covered this topic.
Question: does a child formed using invito fertilization have a soul?
@@AteDarscagas Of course - that's not at issue.
I often wondered what the argument ‘against ivf’ sounded like. It’s true, you never hear this side at all. I did know that it didn’t sit right with me and now I have a valid reason. The fallout is heartbreaking. Those people are alive in stasis, with no protective laws.
It's clear that there are ethical boundaries that need to be respected but It's still a miracle for both couples and single people to be able to experience the joy of being a parent.
Frozen souls that get left in that state bc the man and woman got what they wanted and moved on……so said, I pray for these sweet souls daily
Before my conversion to the one true faith, my wife and I went to a fertility clinic. Fortunately or unfortunately, the doctor chided my wife for having waited until age 29 to begin treatment, and we abandoned course after that. However, if we had continued, they would have extracted and fertilized multiple eggs and then implanted the most viable of them, discarding the rest. In other words, they would have, by definition, aborted a number of our children. That is the reality of IVF in a nutshell.
Did she get pregnant? This is disgusting? I hope she got a baby using her own eggs
So sad.. did she get pregnant?
Before I made you in your mother's womb, I chose you. Before you were born, I set you apart for a special work. ~ Jeremiah 1:5
None of us are prophets unto nations.
@@denniswakabayashi9000 read the beginning
@@Hispanocel
The first verse is saying before there was anything to be formed.
Before the zygote/fertilized egg was formed.
Before conception.
Before our parents knew each other.
Before the creation of the universe God already knew what kind of persons we would be from eternity past.
Where did you get the idiotic notion that "before I formed thee in the belly I knew you"
Meant God is talking about fertilized eggs???
@@denniswakabayashi9000 God knew Jeremiah before he was formed, before people are formed or even conception it is biblical knowledge that God knows them, thus” “before you were In the womb I knew you”, him talking about Jeremiah doesn’t take away those powerful words
@@Hispanocel
So we both agree that Jeremiah 1 is not talking about fertilized eggs.
That Jeremiah 1 has nothing to do with IVF.
The embryos are cells and not children. You cannot keep a child frozen and alive at the same time but you can keep cells frozen and alive.
and embryo is a child at an early stage of development. you can freeze a child at this stage. there is no genetic difference between u and ur embryonic self.
@@thesavannahpictures96 lets not try to be a doctor when you are not a doctor. That’s like those people calling climate change a hoax because they don’t believe in science.
@@pritha12345 I do not need to be a doctor to know this. I know the commonly known scientific fact that upon the moment of conception, an embryo has a completely unique set of dna, infinitely complex, has never existed before and will never again. This DNA is different from the mother and father and is therefore its own separate organism. The fact that this organism is genetically human means it is a human at an early stage of development. The fact that it is human gives it innate value.
@@pritha12345 It is an entirely scientific logical conclusion and based on grade school science. I do not by any means intend to sound like a know it all.
@@thesavannahpictures96 really science book says that embryos at its nascent stage are children?? Which science book says that?? Please share the name.
We went through IVF and I'm happy to debate fellow Catholics on this issue. A bit of background.
My wife struggled with endometriosis, cysts and had issues with her cervix as well. It was extremely painful for her and demoralizing. We tried for over 5 years to conceive with no success and the doctors told us we had a 2% chance even with fertility assisted medication.
We waited a further 1 1/2 - 2 years after this news before making a final decision to go through IVF but we had some clear boundaries, the primary one being that we would not waste or destroyed embryos. After a series of painful injections on a daily basis, they extracted 10 eggs and only 3 took. This cost us over 15k and we are by no means wealthy, both working in social services. The first two of the three were showing signs of struggle and we ended up having to implant them both together (praying and hoping for twins at this point). One failed and the other took (we keep a picture of them both to remember). After a wonderous and anxious nine months we were blessed with a beautiful baby girl who is about to turn 1. She lights up the room and we thank God for her every day.
The third embryo is currently in cryopresevation and we are excited and hopeful to try for another child in November.
Now on to her talking points.
1. She claims that the process of IVF is more risky than insemination in the womb. I would like some actual evidence of this because failed pregnancies are tragically common and at varying stages. There are many reasons why this occurs and often it is around genetic viability. In some instances it is actually easier for an egg to implant and attach in the womb with IVF due to the assistance it receives (which we opted for).
2. I agree with her position of abandoned embryo's being frozen or stuck in time. We would never abandon our children to the dustbin of time.
3. Donations for scientific experimentation is abhorrent but should not be conflated with the other points of the debate. Examples of the 3 or 5 month fetus being used for experimentation etc. is barbaric but already echo's many of the arguments made by the prolife movement. The moral arguments surrounding the treatment of IVF embryo's versus natural pregnancies' should be no different, so I don't really get her argument. If she's advocating for laws protecting IVF embryo's then I fully agree.
4. She discussed how many embryo's are "killed" in the process of selection. While it is true that there are testing methodologies that can screen for genetic disorders or potential issues with chronozones, this is not compulsory and something we did not sign up for. We felt it was too invasive and did not want to go down the path of eugenics. I believe she is conflating two issues here, where a number of embryo's simply do not take when inseminated without interference. Some simply do not divide or stop dividing shortly afterwards for varying reasons.
5. Masturbation. Well, sure, I had to masturbate in a closed room. It was specifically for the creation of life and not self gratification.
I can understand how this process is controversial as the responsibility surrounding it is monumental. I am not an authority by any means but I did want to share why we did what we did and what our perspectives around this are. If we have sinned than I pray for forgiveness but I believe we entered into this process with the mindset and behaviour of wanting to respect the sanctity of life. I however certainly do not want to lead anyone into sin so please speak to those whom you trust and respect first.
Ends don't justify means
@@carolinpurayidom4570 Sorry I dont debate in slogans.
We shouldn’t be playing God.
I don’t understand how this would be considered sin
@@Jade_902you could say this about premature babies put in incubators… it’s a blessing to live in a time where people can conceive children, through modern tech. we don’t have to force ourselves to live in an ancient era…we can take advantage of these technologies so long as it’s not abused and unethical.
IVF miraculous coincidence ,after praying a novena to St Mary MacKillop
On there 6 attempt using IVF this couple were blessed with twins which were born on the 8th of August, the feast day of .... St Mary MacKillop.
Lots of valid points here and many difficulties to discern but also some beautiful people in this world thanks to it!
God bless
Also, folks, God does things to show us what we really need and might close the door on things we want, and he does so with reason. Adoption is an option ❤️
Just bought Lila's book and looking forward to enjoy reading it when arrives.
There are a lot of good points in this video but I also think, IF carried out ethically, it can be wonderful. I am lying in bed right now, with my delightful IVF toddler lying next to me. We have a son who was conceived naturally who is 6 years older and then struggled to conceive and I miscarried twins over the period of 4/5 years. By that point, I was in my early 40s so we tried ivf. We had 3 embryos over 2 rounds of treatment. I miscarried one, one was lost during the transfer process, which was very similar to having a miscarriage- only worse as I felt the clinic had been careless with my child (I considered each one to be my child as soon as they were embryos) even though they had never had an accident like that in their entire history. The 3rd embryo is our beautiful daughter, who I feel is a blessing from God. We went through this process before I was born again (still praying for my husband) and I’m not sure I would see it differently even being born again. Even as a cultural Christian, I prayed a lot for a sibling for our child and was unsure about adoption as I had heard a story about a horrible failed adoption. I agree that the idea of people having lots of embryos frozen and potentially discarding them or having them used for “research” (rather than donating them for other ivf couples to use where they might not have successfully conceived embryos via ivf themselves) is abhorrent. However, to say that Christians should not use ivf, to me, is like saying if you get cancer you should just pray for healing and not have medical treatment….
"IF carried out ethically"
How???
You go into the assisted reproduction process where you expect embryos will be lost.
Wow. Thank you for explaining this.
Without it, I’m not here.
My older brother and younger siblings were conceived out of wedlock. Some children are conceived in rape, some while cheating on ones spouse. Most or many were conceived in sin, but God knew us before we were born. As a pro life Catholic myself, I'm learning more everyday and with every new bit of knowledge, fully aware God loves me and you regardless of our sins, am striving to become a saint.
That's our mission in this life.
Glad you are!
How do you feel about the siblings your parents killed so they could have you?
God have mercy on us
That is so sad what actually happens. What a great explanation.
This is a conversation that needs to be had. I have been wanting to have it for so long and cannot find where to go to do that. I have so many questions!
I have 2 brothers who were born this way. And I thank God for that miracle. My mother was told she couldn't have any more children. I understand the problems outside of the actual result of allowing them to have children. I dont like the fact that they can use those babies for experiments. But after my mother gave birth to my two little brothers, she donated the rest of the eggs she had to someone who also couldn't have children. So I don't think it's inherently a problem. It just depends on the parents decision on what to do with the rest of the unborn children they have.
But see that’s a problem in and of itself right there. Your mom, bless her soul, donated those embryos to do something nice for someone else, but now, she’s made it possible for your siblings or you to engage in incest. Now that possibility is somewhere out there, and you never know, this world is really small. These are the things people don’t think about. There are definitely many ethical concerns that come about with IVF
@@ntmn8444 Not to mention how does your mother deal with knowing that she intentionally created children that she did not take care of? How does she sleep knowing she only loved two of her children enough to raise them?
It was mention in the Bible when God made Adam and Eve from dirt and they had their own babies Cain and Abel and had daughters and other sons also. Their sons grew up they got married to their sisters and had babies with their sisters .God allow Adam and Eve sons to get marry have sex with their sisters and have babies with them.God then decide it was wrong and it was incest for brothers to marry their sisters and let them them have babies with their sisters so he decided to make more human being from man ribs.
My Lord😢🙏🏻I am so sorry about this. I know something about IVF but I had never looked at it as profoundly as this. Thank you for sharing this. Lord have mercy🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻😢And I have lots of friends who conceived in this way. Truly the devil makes sin look like a good thing.🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
But IVF has given so much hope to so many couples?
I don't think this clip does the full argument justice, Matt. It makes IVF seem bad becuase of the shortcomings, mistakes, or chosen deaths of other embryos which doesn't sit well with the natural deaths/shortcomings of natural firtilization and births, such as miscarriages.
If our technology could perform IVF without fail, would it then be morally acceptable?
Perhaps this video should've focused on Natural Law as the basis of her argument.
Agreed
Many people act as if "natural" is moral while "unnatural" is not without justifying the claim. (Related is vs ought" fallacy?) Most of medicine is fighting natural processes, yet we deem it moral.
Not saying an argument couldn't be made for natural conception, but you do need to make it.
@@natew6203 Do you know what natural law is?
As an IVF baby, I am thankful to be alive and dismayed people think me and my siblings shouldn’t be here. Completely disagree with this take. You do not have to freeze embryos.
You do agree that embryos are lost in the process?
@@denniswakabayashi9000 Depends on the way the patient elects to do it. Thankfully, there are options that are good for Christians. Once embryos are fertilized, they actually have a higher chance of implantation than during natural conception. Moreover, the risks to the embryo is no greater than in a natural pregnancy. Most people are outraged by frozen embryos which I do not agree with either but you can choose to have no frozen embryos.
@@denniswakabayashi9000 I think people outraged by IVF need to take a developmental biology course before speaking about it. I’m pursuing an MD and the misinformation in this comment section is harmful. This is a great option for women with PCOS, endometriosis, fallopian tube obstruction, anovulation, etc. Be thankful you could conceive children before throwing stones at those who struggled.
@@Mel-zv1gf
"Depends on the way"
What are you babbling about???
You go into the process of assisted reproduction with the expectation that some or all of the embryos created will die.
@@Mel-zv1gf
Main cause of infertility with females is the failure to ovulate.
So a needle is inserted into the vagina to retrieve the eggs.
These eggs would not have been naturally fertilized since no egg was being released from the ovaries to have a chance to be fertilized.
Assisted reproduction does not ONLY include IVF but egg retrieval and a single sperm cell injected into an egg.
You created embryos that would not have been created naturally
Where you had the expectation that some if not all the embryos will die.
I will admit though I am pro life I was born from IVF so I can’t be agianst it because I’m glad to be alive and I’m glad my sister is alive. My mom had pcos and my dad was in his early 60s so they couldn’t have a child naturally so they did IVF. Then when I was eight after my dad died my mom gave birth to another one of the IVF babies because I told her I wanted a baby sister and she wanted me to have a family because my dads other children didn’t want anything to do with me and we lived in a different state and weren’t close with my moms side of the family. She had my sister who we named Rose, she still has several other babies that are frozen and she’s still thinking about what to do with them, she refuses to allow them to be experimented on but still hasn’t found anyone to donate them to. Was my birth natural, no but I’m glad it happend.
As am I my friend, as am I, the right to bear children does not belong to only those who do not struggle with fertility.
Thank you for telling your story. Are you a Christian?
@@jonathanthainguyen it’s complicated, my mom grew up Christian, Catholic I think and my dad was Jewish. My dad died when I was one and his family didn’t want me so I wasn’t introduced to the Jewish faith. My moms an atheist though so I was raised atheist and I still am kind of, I do believe in god and I believe in Jesus and that he was the messiah, this will sound crazy but I think gods sent multiple different messiahs in different parts of the world based on who and what he thought would influence the people there more.
I pray she never deals with infertility. 1/8 women struggle with infertility. She has no right to speak on whether IVF is okay or no. Haven’t been through it, the struggle of having constant miscarriages, not being able to conceive and desperately wanting a baby, then shut up❤️all love and respect.
100%
That’s an extreme statement. You should reword because the words you chose mean people shouldn’t have free speech
You don't have any right to speak on it too.
We are not promised children or motherhood/fatherhood. It’s a hard pill to swallow in a world so ugly, but truth is truth no matter how much it hurts.
I was diagnosed with cancer at 23 in 2024. 2 weeks later I missed my period and on my 24th birthday I found out that I was pregnant with our first child. Between when I found out I had cancer and when I found out that I was pregnant, I had many tests, biopsies, and so on to determine stage and diagnosis. I was told what my treatment would be and the side effects one of which was possible infertility. I was recommended by my medical team to look into IVF if I wanted to preserve my fertility (I did not know I was pregnant at this time as it was within that period before I knew). Being Catholics, my husband and I both knew that IVF was wrong, but didn’t fully understand why. We agreed to at least go to the clinic to hear them out and upon leaving we were even more convinced that it was not for us and immoral. When I found out I was pregnant a few days later, it was not about me anymore. I decided to postpone chemotherapy for 3 months based off research that suggests chemotherapy is safer in the second/third trimester rather than the first. I was lucky that none of my doctors recommended abortion. 60% of doctors still do according to the Hope For Two Foundation that is a pregnancy and cancer research organization. I am now 34 weeks pregnant and will be giving birth to our baby girl soon. I still have treatment after she is born, and I haven’t been able to be scanned to see if the chemotherapy is working, but according to my clinical response, it is. Long story short, my baby came at a really “inconvenient” time (she was never seen as an inconvenience). I may not be able to have children after her or I might! Who knows but God. Before knowing about the pregnancy, I had to come to terms with the fact that we are not promised children or motherhood/fatherhood and subverting the natural order of things isn’t the right means to an end no matter what it is for. Even with the blessing of my baby, that is a lesson that still applies as I have always dreamed of a large family, but I may not be able to make that happen. But who knows but God! I know still I wouldn’t choose IVF or surrogacy to create more children. Who are we to play God for our knowledge of time and space is so futile?
I’m ashamed I had no idea about the harmful things that come from IVF. I never seen the evil in it, I knew it wasn’t right, only God should have the power to create life. But my goodness thank you for making this video and shinning light on this darkness that is happening in our world. May God have mercy on their souls, and save those babies. 🙏🏽 Brothers and sisters let us all pray for judges who sit in power to make laws; we must pray that they put laws against the use of embryos in experiments!!!
Thank you sharing this Info, may God show mercy on them all. 😢🙏
it seems lila wants everything she doesn’t personally agree with to be illegal. in vitro has been a life saver for many families that couldn’t conceive naturally. if you can’t conceive and you don’t want to do in vitro, that is your own choice to make, but you simply don’t have the right to take that choice away from other couples.
Yes. I agree. It's going too far for me. Too much politics...
Yeah she's anti-birth control too.
exactly!
I've been aware of these negative aspects of IVF - the unnecessary destruction of God's children. And try to remember to pray for them and logically or not feel some guilt that I'm not doing anything else to help prevent this.
Even though I am a Catholic, I would say that I do not agree. If your intention is to create life, a very different logic applies than in the case of abortion. The wilfull destruction of embryo's (even though purely cellular) remains problematic, but since there is never the intention to kill embryo's, I think that the technology can be defended. Nevertheless, I am not sure whether I would personally be willing to make use of it.
IVF removes the unitive aspect from procreation. You can't really support IVF and be in line with catholic teaching.
@@spyroninja True, I have to admit that I should study it more, including the gruesome details...
@@trismegistus2881 it's a very unfortunate situation because the intentions of those who use IVF and almost always good and noble and your heart breaks for those who have to go through those lengths to have children. But if you accept IVF, you have to as a consequence accept things you ought not to.
(I say this just to help you consider other aspects :)
Remember that with IVF they always implant more than one embryo, which means they always intend to abort at least one child. So even though they may be intending to help the woman conceive, it is always costing at least one other life. Not to mention the consequences of keeping frozen embryos as mentioned in the video. Makes my skin crawl. Here are a couple of links to look into as well:
cultureoflife.org/2020/01/24/a-hard-truth-ivf-is-not-moral/
www.hli.org/resources/catechism-of-the-catholic-church-ivf/
studentsforlife.org/2019/07/21/the-pro-life-response-to-the-ivf-dilemma/
@@allioop8156 thank you, your reaction is greatly appreciated. I would say that the missing 'unitive aspect of procreation' seems less important to me than the embryo's which can't be 'used' in the process and are disgarded. Just like in the case of abortion, a lot of gruesome but important details are sadly omitted from the public discussion.
I learned something today. God bless
As a pro-life Catholic, all I’m gonna say is that there is a way to do IVF without breaking any of the 10 commandments.
What way is that?
@@user-vg8ez9cu6u one embryo at a time
There isn't a way without throwing out the teaching authority of the Church, as it has clearly defined that this is unacceptable.
@@SevereFamineI don't think you read my previous comment.
@@loannebhold I read your comment. Could you explain how to do that? Thanks
Youre not owed children, no matter how much you want them no matter how much you think youd be a good parent
This is very true. It’s such a hard pill to swallow and sometimes it feels impossible! I was diagnosed with cancer at 23 in 2024. 2 weeks later I missed my period and on my 24th birthday I found out that I was pregnant with our first child. Between when I found out I had cancer and when I found out that I was pregnant, I had many tests, biopsies, and so on to determine stage and diagnosis. I was told what my treatment would be and the side effects one of which was possible infertility. I was recommended by my medical team to look into IVF if I wanted to preserve my fertility (I did not know I was pregnant at this time as it was within that period before I knew). Being Catholics, my husband and I both knew that IVF was wrong, but didn’t fully understand why. We agreed to at least go to the clinic to hear them out and upon leaving we were even more convinced that it was not for us and immoral. When I found out I was pregnant a few days later, it was not about me anymore. I decided to postpone chemotherapy for 3 months based off research that suggests chemotherapy is safer in the second/third trimester rather than the first. I was lucky that none of my doctors recommended abortion. 60% of doctors still do according to the Hope For Two Foundation that is a pregnancy and cancer research organization. I am now 34 weeks pregnant and will be giving birth to our baby girl soon. I still have treatment after she is born, and I haven’t been able to be scanned to see if the chemotherapy is working, but according to my clinical response, it is. Long story short, my baby came at a really “inconvenient” time (she was never seen as an inconvenience). I may not be able to have children after her or I might! Who knows but God. Before knowing about the pregnancy, I had to come to terms with the fact that we are not promised children or motherhood/fatherhood and subverting the natural order of things isn’t the right means to an end no matter what it is for. Even with the blessing of my baby, that is a lesson that still applies as I have always dreamed of a large family, but I may not be able to make that happen. But who knows but God! I know still I wouldn’t choose IVF or surrogacy to create more children. Trust in him for EVERYTHING.
I disagree
I have cancer. I am only 34 years old and have not yet had children. I am currently undergoing IVF to preserve my fertility. The catholic church might not agree with me but I want to be to have a family. If the worst happens, my sisters are willing to donate their eggs to me in the future after I beat cancer.
I hope you get cured ! 🙏💖
@@anastrawberry8047 it’s glioma, so it’s incurable. I only trust my oncologist on this and nobody else. I went through egg freezing but it’s not a cure. Most of us relapse during pregnancy. It becomes a no man’s world of what to do. Attempt pregnancy but abort whenever things are ruled unsafe, surrogacy etc.
@@k2h2kqeb Hi Anna! I will pray for you, if you want.
Love from Spain💖
I was diagnosed with cancer at 23 in 2024. 2 weeks later I missed my period and on my 24th birthday I found out that I was pregnant with our first child. Between when I found out I had cancer and when I found out that I was pregnant, I had many tests, biopsies, and so on to determine stage and diagnosis. I was told what my treatment would be and the side effects one of which was possible infertility. I was recommended by my medical team to look into IVF if I wanted to preserve my fertility (I did not know I was pregnant at this time as it was within that period before I knew). Being Catholics, my husband and I both knew that IVF was wrong, but didn’t fully understand why. We agreed to at least go to the clinic to hear them out and upon leaving we were even more convinced that it was not for us and immoral. When I found out I was pregnant a few days later, it was not about me anymore. I decided to postpone chemotherapy for 3 months based off research that suggests chemotherapy is safer in the second/third trimester rather than the first. I was lucky that none of my doctors recommended abortion. 60% of doctors still do according to the Hope For Two Foundation that is a pregnancy and cancer research organization. I am now 34 weeks pregnant and will be giving birth to our baby girl soon. I still have treatment after she is born, and I haven’t been able to be scanned to see if the chemotherapy is working, but according to my clinical response, it is. Long story short, my baby came at a really “inconvenient” time (she was never seen as an inconvenience). I may not be able to have children after her or I might! Who knows but God. Before knowing about the pregnancy, I had to come to terms with the fact that we are not promised children or motherhood/fatherhood and subverting the natural order of things isn’t the right means to an end no matter what it is for. Even with the blessing of my baby, that is a lesson that still applies as I have always dreamed of a large family, but I may not be able to make that happen. But who knows but God! I know still I wouldn’t choose IVF or surrogacy to create more children. Trust in him for EVERYTHING.
Although not religious, I'm a spiritual person... and IVF is so creepy and morally wrong to me. I'm getting annoyed at all the women in my life pushing me to do it because I've been having trouble conceiving. I've been told maybe I don't want a child badly enough if I don't pursue IVF, but the thought of my child living its first moments in a petri dish is CREEPY! I want my child in my womb, where they're meant to be.
Many women who get abortions are mad when you tell them that it is murder too. Their emotions don't make abortion ethical either.
Your emotions to something doesn’t make it more true than the actual truth
Well said.
But the more important reason why IVF is not allowed is because we cannot separate the unitive and procreative aspects of sex. It destroys a marriage when the marriage is not open to life, i.e. that every time a husband and wife come together to celebrate the sacrament of marriage, they have the possibility of creating new life. That is why every form of contraception is morally unacceptable. it also applies to IUI and IVF. The procreative aspect of bringing a child into the world has to be within the unitive aspect of sex.
So an infertile couple should never have sex? Since they know they can't reproduce, having sex would be sinful, right?
Love this information!
Honestly, I’d pass a law making IVF only available to those with documented fertility issues.
Also Lila, talking about masturbation as a “moral complication” really? This isn’t 1932.
This is completely off topic Matt, but how do you feel about the American solidarity party when it comes to American national politics? I understand the use Catholic social teaching as a basis for their political stances, but it seems like no one's ever given them traction.
Why does it matter? They want to violate Church/State Separation. It bars them from politics.
Natural rate of miscarriage of fertilized zygotes is 30-50%. Those over 40 may approach 80%. Clearly the speaker is making a cumalitive argument, but at the very least a high miscarriage rate is not inherently a reason against IVF. Certainly it may be higher now with IVF, but if we practiced on dogs/apes the rate might actually be lower than natural conception. Ought we to only use IVF if that were the case since human life is sacred?
Obviously that is conceptual since we are using humans to improve the technology as well as animals, but at least it shows the immorality is not inherent but relative to miscarriage rates
This does not address her other arguments of course, but some of them are trivial (wives can help their husbands obtain sperm).
When she talks about the death rate of embryos, I think she’s talking about all of them in general, not just the ones used in transfers and successful to implant.
Quite often dozens of embryos are created and only a handful are given the opportunity to be transferred (and hopefully implant). In that case, the rate of death is very high.
Miscarriages from embryos that were successful to implant is completely different.
She mentions the high miscarriage rate because it is one thing to naturally miscarry but another to purposefully put children in a situation where they are likely to die.
@@Mjl449 valid point and why I am uncomfortable with it. Still seems IVF isn't inherently wrong in that regard - only relatively wrong given current technology. One could advocate we improve the method in animals until it leads to less death than natural conception
Of course this is only one part of her argument.
@@sophiapearl4942 Attempting to concieve naturally, if one is aware of the the science at the time, is purposefully (i.e. aware and accepting the risk) putting children at risk. Even more so if you are older than 35. Everyone who intends to have more than 3 children will more likely than not have a miscarriage (most without being aware of it). That said, IVF certainly has a much higher rate of zygote death currently but the difference is relative (and due to the system) and not inherent.
If IVF had 0% chance of miscarriage would it not be the better option?
That said, my argument more philosophical than practical given current state of the technology
@@natew6203 My point is that those miscarriages are at least springing from a natural process. The miscarriage rate does not have much bearing on the morality of IVF but it is still worth mentioning even if it isn’t a solid argument against it.
❤️❤️❤️❤️ thank you so much for sharing the truth ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Science can do many things, but those things may not be the best. If God wants you to have a child, He will give you a child.
Are you saying God didn’t want me to be born? Ridiculous comment.
My nephew and my neighbor’s baby are from IVF. Praise God for their lives.
How do you know Satan didn't give us IVF? To say that just because your alive negates the evil in IVF by comparing it to modern medicine is a poor argument. You do not need to have a child. The fact that someone is alive is the by the goodness of God but does not erase the evil of many dead for the desire and will of your parents.
@@katherineroe9137 Satan doesn’t give life. He takes it.
@@jkm9332 a lot of lives are taken using IVF
Wow. I didn't know any of this! Thank you Lila!
As a christian I'm still struggling to see how you account for a children born directly through IVF though. Like...a child is alive. Does God celebrate life or no? Is that child a mistake or no? On so many levels this argument is problematic to me. The argument that embryos could be used unethically or immorally says nothing about IVF at all. People unethically handle drugs....should we ban all drugs? It seems this argument against IVF has too many shaky premises and "what-if" statements that don't really provide direct support for the argument.
You may not have watched the video to the end, but the speaker directly said a child from ivf is not a mistake/problem. God wouldn't see it that way and neither does the Catholic Church. All life is sacred.
That being said, I think what you were trying to say is that this video clip doesn't address wether or not ivf would be an okay thing to do if it were used properly. The video only say ivf is bad because of how it's done. And the current practice is bad because it directly causes the death of many embryos (persons) just so one life can be born. We don't trade lives. The current practice is horrible. But it would be really interesting to hear a discussion about if it'd be okay to do ivf if the process did not involve experimenting on and killing multiple embryos, but instead only created one embryo and implanted it. So the real question is, if it was done with only one embryo involved, would it be okay? I hope they discuss it in a future video.
Okay, Im not an expert but lets see if i can help, So, God basically still gives the grace needed for the child to be born in cases of IVF but he doesn't approve of the way the child was made. It's like if you steal money from the rich and give it to the poor, while giving to the poor is something to celebrate, the wicked action of stealing remains wrong.
For the drugs, question, in this case of IVF, you are putting a unethically handling someone else's life without their consent, its like forcing a vaccine or medicine which may or may not work. People should have the right to choose their own medicine. Same way you can't force someone to be born via IVF cos its against embryo rights.
I think Lila really wanted to stress how IVF harms and kills children, which is of course the more urgent and persuasive issue of this topic - but the fundamental moral reason why it's wrong to create a child using IVF is because it separates the procreative aspect of the marital act (ie: sex) from the unitive one. For the same reasons it's wrong to masturbate, to have homosexual sex, or to contracept - these acts all divorce these two ends and are therefore intrinsically disordered. The Catechism declared the “inseparability principle” regarding the two ends: “the twofold end of marriage, the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couples’ spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family.” (§2363) The Catechism also teaches magisterially that “a child does not come from outside as something added on to the mutual love of the spouses, but springs from the very heart of the mutual giving, as its fruit and fulfillment.” (§2366) I would encourage you to look into this further and really examine Catholic social teachings on why God created sex and for what ends it was intended.
@@Lovrofthearts you get it! CONGRATULATIONS. Why is this so hard for "Catholics" to understand? It is also why so many are leery about getting the covid vaccine
@@Lovrofthearts I havre homosexual sex, been on birth control for years and masturbate several times a day. It's awesome. 😝
'Click here to watch the full episode' is still not working sir.
Can’t we admit that embryos are not the same as fully developed babies ? We know this instinctually
Doesn't change the fact that they are distinct organisms with wholly unique DNA and the ability to grow if not cut short by outside intervention.
I’m shocked beyond words 👀
Married for 6 years now and unable to get pregnant I’ve been labeled as infertile. Some have told me that one could be morally “safe” if they just implant all the embryos that were created in the lab. The problem with implanting them all is that inevitably the majority will fail to implant (i.e. will die). For example if you implant 4 embryos and only 1 implants, then three embryos (lives) are lost. That is more lives lost than during one typical abortion. To sacrifice three lives just to successfully acquire one is obviously ethically and morally wrong. Who is responsible before God for these lives lost?? I say this with a real fear of God: now at the age of 44 I’ve had to contemplate these stark realities while facing the fact that I most likely won’t have children since my conscience and fear of God will now allow me to go the route of IVF.
As someone with family trying IVF, I think that the level of judgement and overconfidence that you have to have to say something like this is toxic. I think you’ll run your life into a wall.
What did she say with which you disagree? I found it very informative.
I have a question for anyone who may be anti-abortion. What if a 10 year old girl falls pregnant as a result of sexual abuse? Whether or not this particular hypothetical describes most abortions is not the point, the point is the hypothetical is totally realistic. In 2015, it made national headlines when a 10 year old girl in Paraguay fell pregnant as a result of rape perpetrated by her step father.
One of the most common arguments by pro-life people is that child bearing is a natural part of being biologically female. For the most part, that is true. However, science teaches us that, when a girl first begins puberty, even though she is technically capable of reproducing, her body is not quite ready to do so. Statistics show that mothers under 15 years of age are five times more likely to die compared to adult women who give birth.
I must ask all pro-life people this one question? If a 10 year old girl falls pregnant as a result of rape, should be be forced by law to remain pregnant or should she be allowed to terminate the pregnancy? If you said that she 10 year old sexual assault survivor should be allowed to get an abortion, I have some follow up questions. Should a 25 year old woman, who falls pregnant due to sexual assault, be allowed to abort? If not, then at what age does a female pass the cut off where abortion should no longer be legal? If, however, you believe that the 25 year old, who fell pregnant due to rape, should be allowed an abortion, should a 25 year old, who falls pregnant due to consensual sex, also be allowed an abortion? If you answered no, then A, why is aborting a pregnancy that resulted from consensual sex morally different from aborting a pregnancy that resulted from rape? And B, what if a woman lies about having been raped, so that she can have an abortion? Does she have to prove that she was raped before she can get the abortion? The investigation could turn up inconclusive. The investigation might take so long, that the pregnant woman ends up giving birth, before the investigation is over.
There exist people who believe that abortion should be reserved for cases of rape. That is a lot simpler in concept than it is to execute. However, there also exist people who believe that abortion should be illegal, even when the pregnancy results from sexual assault. If you do that you will have children, who are not even old enough to be left home without a babysitter in some states, will be forced to give birth.
If you believe that a pregnant 10 year old should be forced to give birth, I have another question. How would you feel about a policy that would allow for you to get sterilized, as soon as you hit puberty, whether you have your parents permission or not. If a girl hits puberty at 13, she can go to the free clinic to get sterilized and she does not need her parents’ permission. There is no age that a girl has to be to get sterilized per se, but she has to hit puberty. A complete abortion ban would force girls, who aren’t old enough to be left home without a babysitter in many US states, to give birth. If you are okay with that, then logically you should be okay with minors being sterilized without their parents’ permission, as holding any other stance would be saying that a 13 year old is mature enough to handle child birth, but not mature enough to handle under going surgery of which her parents don’t approve.
The minors that should be sterilized, in an an abortion free society, should be male. Not female. Women have enough to deal with, when it comes to reproductive rights.
I really would also like an answer to these questions. I am against abortion for other reasons, but these cases have me concerned.
There is much to be said about the snowflake babies. ❄ lots of them get destroyed. It is just not a good idea to play gods.
This technology has also led to hybrid Frankenstein experiments.
Part human, part animal.
Your laws AREN'T pro-life
sex education IS pro-life.
I am an atheist and generally pro-choice (in most cases) but I really didn't know that much about IVF so this is interesting!
So it's not immoral in of itself but it being encouraged in society can lead to some immoral actions. That makes sense
Is anyone organizing a march in DC this Summer to respond to the radical Lefts march this week? If not, I think we should organize one to show the left that the energy is on the side of life.
I hate to nit pick.
But when Lila said that "Masturbation is a moral complication problem" erm ...
There is no complication. No complication at all. In fact it is very un-complicated.
Fact: masturbation is a mortal sin.
This lady is scary. Most implantations don’t work.
What is the failure rate? IVF docs told us it was very low, single percentages.
They are lying. Only 29% gets lucky between age 21 to 35.
@@holyempressw8531 Could you give me the source for the 29%?
I agree with most things she says but the IVF thing when it comes to couples who automatically do IVF ( and don’t freeze them or give them to science and who demand the rest of embryos be given to the couple to disregard/bury) anyway maybe God gave doctors the wisdom on how to take his creation to his his people to help make a baby and he told in the Bible to procreate. But I do agree that eggs and more should not be frozen, stored, experimented on ect…
I'm not sure how to ask this, but isn't it the same thing when you are not conceiving naturally and your period comes instead of a pregnancy, that that egg and sperm with the potential of giving life have gone to waste?
It wasn't the result of a human life and rejected itself from the woman's body.
My mother had the experience six times after learning she had conceived a fetus, somehow her own body didn't support the pregnancy and resulted in a natural loss of her baby by miscarriage, not an abortion, so what is happening there concerning the church's view on prevention of life?
It could be said that God didn't prevent those loss of lives or the babies would have lived and would have been born.
The. babies died in utero.
Also do you ever think of baby Jesus as the first ever in vitro baby?
This child was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit through God, not actually by a natural conception of the marriage of Joseph and Mary and baby Jesus was placed into Mary's womb to grow into a baby.
Is that not how Jesus was brought into the world?
It seems to support in vitro as being perfectly alright.
I'm just asking.
I am struggling with fertility issues.
I have never conceived and I am considering at almost 44 trying an in vitro chance.
What is the difference if your conceived fetus stops living inside your natural body or in a freezer?
It's a miscarriage either way.
As well frozen embryos have the chance to be adopted and in a way have a better chance at survival instead of being rejected by a human womb.
Don't you think?
Please use paragraphs, its difficult to read.
I am not a medical expert but yes, embryos do not take for a variety of reasons, some of which are genetic viability. Sometimes the egg simply does not attach to the womb and is lost. Miscarriage's are tragic and can occur at any stage of pregnancy.
I wont go into the immaculate conception argument because it is a miracle of God and I am woefully inadequate to address it.
Adopting frozen embryo's is an option made available although I would stress that simply having multiple children is a better strategy. We were willing to have upwards of 4 to 5 children if faced with that decision, no matter how unlikely that may have been.
I wrote an outline of me and my wife's experiences when going through IVF and our thought process when going through with the procedure. Feel free to go over it and respond if you like.
Adopting frozen
Have Dave Rubin on again to discuss this.
Could IVF be done in a moral way? I have triplet brothers-in-law from this; the parents didn't discard any embryos, and kept all the kids that "latched". They did their darndest to save as much life as they created. If no life is ended or frozen in time with malice aforethought, could it be done morally?
I married a woman who had 2 IVF babies in a previous marriage. (Her first husband was sterile). I did not give proper consideration to all of the ramifications of this, all I knew at the time is that I had “fallen in love.” Well, the girls accidentally found out about their origin story at an early age. I am now divorced after a 23-year marriage. I’m convinced that the IVF story played a huge role. At the end of the day my wife and I had two children of our own, the old-fashioned way. So this means she had four children with three different men, two of those men she had never met or even laid eyes on. Bizarre.
It is ok to do it. At least betterthan abortion.
What about a child that is here by IVF?
Toward the end, she directly says they have the same dignity and right to life as naturally conceived children.
What's happening to these babies? It's a scary thought to think that these embryos aren't protected, like Lila said. If they really wanted to, these scientists could be growing babies in incubators! How EVIL that would be! I just can't put anything past the abortion industries mode of operation
Can a person choose how many embryos. Like 3 max
Serious question though, I carry a severe genetic illness, would it not be better to do ivf than risk having a child with this illness? I had a child before I was aware but now that I am, is it not better to do ivf?
you can make the best decision for yourself and your family. this is just one opinion on IVF and it's pretty extreme. there are many information videos out there that are less biased against it.
I hear in Ireland it’s actually a lot of the reformational folk that are actually pro life and so it’s sort of ended up the other way around there.
However, I have never and would never consider IVF and because of simply that, I did not imagine some of these points. That really is awful to consider. Just not a nice thing to imagine. Set your mind on higher things.
Yes though now you know though, it is important to help ensure proper seeds are planted… unfortunately now there is a devils seed being brought up here possibly. That’s unfortunate.
What is the devil's seed?
If you believe life begin's at conception why not name the "child", or give it funeral, and burial rites in the case of miscarriage? And don't tell me it's because the prospective mother had already just gone through a horrible experience, why put her through more? Then you're saying it's about the mother, and not the "child."
It is also against God’s plan of creating a child naturally, one man one woman during the conjugal act.
Just by Nicola saying she is from the "North" of Ireland gives away what side of the house she is from. 😂 She may be running in my area, no clue but I would support if she was.
thank god i'm not pro life
This woman has straight up lost her mind.
If an embryo survives in an ivf its seen as alive but of an embryo same age is in a mothers womb its seen as not alive and allowed to be killed.
"these are children stuck in time" they could also be "children" on a crispy sock or something... what's the point?
IVF seems very selfish to me (for a number of reasons).
Thanks for this! Not a topic I've known much about.
We should not be playing God.
Do artificial uteruses (wombs) actually exist?
This is not true 60 percent success rate traditionally or ivf they are both on par
29% success rate. Wake up
My friend who got IVF said the technology was better so that no babies die. They didn’t make a batch for her I guess. I don’t know.
But it’s still creepy and not natural, it’s humans playing God. God is the one who creates life, it’s not up to us
I got a surrogacy ad before this video played lol
IVF is a technology many couples partake in due to trouble conceiving. The costs are really expensive which can cause some of those parents to stop after failed attempts and not being able to afford more tries.
It seems like the backend needs laws to protect the embryos that are not going to be used for their original purpose.
Thanks!
Wow
0:40 OMG
This is just such an absurd view
Sweet home Alabama 😢
Not accepting thanks
So basically if you and your wife wait till marriage, dont use any protection becouse its evil i guess,pray and pray to be fruitful and multiple like god says, and it turns out becouse of a medical condition you cant have one naturally,your fucked?
We are not promised children or motherhood/fatherhood. Truth hurts sometimes but that doesn’t make it less true
Hey, just wanted to tell everyone bashing IVF to go to Hell! Have an awful day!
Bless you, friend
The arguments in this video are bad.
:30 Whether the egg extraction procedures are damaging to the woman is irrelevant to whether it is moral.
:43 What is the moral complication of masturbation? How is that immoral?
1:00 Not convinced by this point either. In regular sexual intercourse, embryos may die within the first few weeks before a woman even realizes she's pregnant. No one considers this immoral. This is recognized as a normal part of biology.
1:05 Whether it happens naturally is irrelevant to whether it should be allowed. If I made an artificial heart that can save lives, I shouldn't use it because it is unnatural, I should let the person die? Is that the logic?
1:15 Seems like you should pass a law dictating how many embryos can be created and how many have to be used before new ones can be created. Better to pass laws regulating a practice than to ban it outright.
2:03 High risk and existing compared to no risk by not existing at all? On net, the world is better off by IVF babies existing through a risky procedure than not existing at all.
2:28 Seems like you should pass laws granting legal status rather than ban the practice.
2:30 Are you saying that there is an obligation to take care of a defective embryos that has no chance of ever living? Why? Or is our obligation to just provide reasonable care?
3:08 Well, you actually are saying that these children are a mistake. If you had your way, these children would never exist because you would ban the means by which they are created. How is that not saying that these children are a mistake?
This woman has such a limited point of view and lacks compassion for women who may have different realities from her
I agree with her and so does the Catholic church. I was diagnosed with cancer at 23 in 2024. 2 weeks later I missed my period and on my 24th birthday I found out that I was pregnant with our first child. Between when I found out I had cancer and when I found out that I was pregnant, I had many tests, biopsies, and so on to determine stage and diagnosis. I was told what my treatment would be and the side effects one of which was possible infertility. I was recommended by my medical team to look into IVF if I wanted to preserve my fertility (I did not know I was pregnant at this time as it was within that period before I knew). Being Catholics, my husband and I both knew that IVF was wrong, but didn’t fully understand why. We agreed to at least go to the clinic to hear them out and upon leaving we were even more convinced that it was not for us and immoral. When I found out I was pregnant a few days later, it was not about me anymore. I decided to postpone chemotherapy for 3 months based off research that suggests chemotherapy is safer in the second/third trimester rather than the first. I was lucky that none of my doctors recommended abortion. 60% of doctors still do according to the Hope For Two Foundation that is a pregnancy and cancer research organization. I am now 34 weeks pregnant and will be giving birth to our baby girl soon. I still have treatment after she is born, and I haven’t been able to be scanned to see if the chemotherapy is working, but according to my clinical response, it is. Long story short, my baby came at a really “inconvenient” time (she was never seen as an inconvenience). I may not be able to have children after her or I might! Who knows but God. Before knowing about the pregnancy, I had to come to terms with the fact that we are not promised children or motherhood/fatherhood and subverting the natural order of things isn’t the right means to an end no matter what it is for. Even with the blessing of my baby, that is a lesson that still applies as I have always dreamed of a large family, but I may not be able to make that happen. But who knows but God! I know still I wouldn’t choose IVF or surrogacy to create more children.
You lost me at the bit about masterbation. It's sad that people think this woman is smart.
Ok coomer
This is so unnatural 😢