Tysha is actually the secret mother of Tyrek, and a northerner (dark hair, and blue eyes). Tysha and Tyrion met when he was 13. At some point in the same year Tyrek was born. Coincidence? I think not. This is why Tyrek can become a horse, something we see the Starks do most of all. Upon learning that Tysha had fathered Tyrion’s son, Tywin was conflicted as he did not want to throw away a strong boy with the Lannister features so he made lil bro look after him or made lil bro’s widow look after him whilst he figured out what to do. Then he kind of forgot. So, yes, Tysha is a horse and finally reunited with her son Tyrek.
I always thought Tywin had no idea where she went, and “wherever whores go” was a dismissive quote insulting Tyrion. Tyrion knows this and his repetition of the phrase is him trying to rationalize it and try and find some meaning from Tywin’s last words.
Probably, but there's no reason to believe Tywin said that because he honestly didn't know. He likely said it because he knew it would hurt Tyrion, and he's never been overly fond of his youngest child.
I hate when content creators use clickbaity titles like this. It really makes me lose respect for them. It gets the video a down vote and I don't even bother watching it. That is exactly right. Tywin doesn't know and Tyrion will never find out. It's quite likely that she is dead.
Tysha used the silver and gold to play the Westerosi stock market, and eventually sailed to Braavos with her winnings, and secured herself a job at the Iron Bank. She also briefly trained with the Faceless Men and is posing as Tycho Nestoris, backing Stannis to exact revenge on the Lannisters. TYsha = TYcho, spread the word
Tyrion climbing through the sewers at Casterly Rock would be fitting since GRRM had the dwarf in Mystery Knight climb through the privy to steal the dragons egg
And we already have Dany sending forces through a sewer to capture a city. With so much foreshadowing it would be bizarre if C Rock was not captured using the sewers to infiltrate.
I believe that Lanna is Tyrion's daughter and The Sailors Wife is Tysha. All the typical 'evidence' notwithstanding I think Lanna is what proves it! She's golden haired and 14 years old (Tyrion is roughly 27 I believe and got married at 13 so the ages match). Going back to aGOT, one of Bobby B's bastards was a girl was named Barra, named for the shortening of Baratheon. Lanna fits the exact same naming style for Lannister.
its commonly thought that geogre forgot to un-age Lanna George was gonna do a timeskip and this was a first chapter so she's way younger i think 11 or 9
I think Gerion's confirmed bastard daughter Joy Hill is younger then Lanna. So Gerion went to Bravos on one of his voyages, „married” The Sailor's Wife, impregnated her with Lanna and then went back to Westeros got with Briony and they had Joy Hill?
@@marigold2459 yea 2 things 1 its thought that this is 1 of the early chapters geogre did and didnt go back to refix it.... and tyrion and her stayed at a sea town when they married so she could be refuring to that
Tysha reveal could be a great ending to Tyrion's story. He becomes the monster and we leave with him meeting his first love, a woman who hasn't seen him since he was a child. Could be a great contrast showing how far Tyrion falls by the end. To the point even his wife no longer recognises him.
So…a Better Call Saul ending Tysha: “You had them for 7 years.” Tyrion: “Yeah, I did.” Tysha: “86 years.” Tyrion: “86 years but, with good behavior, who knows?”
@@nont18411 I am sorry. but Jimmy never even did something so horrific to her as Tyrion to Tysha. It cannot be that she "finds out" the monster he has become, since she saw the monster back then, when he raped her after all others and payed her for her "services".
This doesn't make a ton of sense, both logistically and thematically. 1.) Tywin could easily have had Tysha killed, there's no reason for him to keep her around. Jeyne Westerling is a bad comparison because Jeyne is both high born and her family conspired with Tywin. Tysha was some commoner who could easily be disposed of. Even if Tywin randomly didn't want to kill Tysha, she could have just been given moon tea. Even if they didn't do that and Tysha was pregnant, Tywin had her assaulted by dozens of men so parentage would be utterly impossible to prove. If Tysha didn't get pregnant in such a scenario, there's no reason to keep her around after a couple months, she could have been forced out of the Westerlands and as a peasant she wouldn't have means or reason to return to Tyrion. 2.) Tywin's whole character is based on shame. Tywin feels shame based on the actions of others, especially in or relating to his family, so he seeks to brutally humiliate the perpetrators of whatever made him feel shame. Tywin humiliates Tytos' mistress, Tyrion, Tysha, etc. Tywin doesn't actually care too much about the succession and isn't actually nearly as Machiavellian as everybody thinks, either in universe or reading. If Tywin was actually concerned with securing succession, he would have remarried shortly after his wife died birthing Tyrion. He doesn't because he probably found the idea to be shameful. What I'm getting at is that Tysha was an object of shame to Tywin and he would be likely to brutally dispose of her like the mistress or the Reynes/Tarbecks. This is as opposed to Tyrion, who Tywin HAD to keep around to not incur further shame on the family name.
All good points bar Tywin remarried, for all his flaws I believe he didn't remarry because he loved his wife similar to how Cersei loves her children, and he could not replace her
I disagree entirely. What did tywin do with another "source of shame" that was public in the trial, Shae. He didn't have her killed or banished. He kept her close and in his "employ" where he could keep her quiet and not be used against him. We are told moon tea doesn't always work. We are shown examples in the history of false claimants ruining houses. Tysha could return with any kid who fancies himself a lord and pose a threat to the lannisters, they don't exactly have dna tests in westeros. I think saying tywin is obsessed with "shame" is a misreading of the text. Tywin is obsessed with the perception of his house. We see the tunnel in the tower of the hand that is evidently his. We see shae in his bed. We see his hatred of tyrion yet takes drastic action when tyrion is moved against. This isn't some sort of strong moral fiber that would lead to shame, it's a cynical, calculated set of actions to make the lannisters *seem* strong, seem honourable, seem united. I think he cares a lot about legacy and lineage, see his arguement with Jaime about leaving the kingsguard and his maneuvering to get a lannister on the throne. What else would you call that? Disregarding honour and oaths in the aim of a strong lannister household and continuing his lineage. I think its clear he didn't take another wife because he still considered Jaime to be his heir and expected his line to continue there. If not, as he says there is no shortage of lannisters. He has able brothers and nephews and grandchildren. Until joffery's death the clear choice for inheritance of casterly rock was Tommen, his line was not in peril he had multiple heirs.
I completely agree, and in addition - commoner bastards are not a big deal. Show aside (please let's forget that season), Gendry is not inheriting Storm's End. Dragon Stone is full of dragon seeds, but none of them have any money or power, none challenge Robert to the throne after Aries' death. Tyrion's marriage was declared null and void, so any children aren't even a "Hill" in title. However, I could see Tywin giving his brother the task of getting rid of Tysha, and Kevan having his wife take her to the silent sisters or something. That would set up Dorna a source at Casterly Rock who could inform Tyrion of Tysha's whereabouts.
this would be such a gut punch. Tyrion gets Casterly Rock and Tysha like he's always wanted but it's at the end of his mad bitter vengance tour across westeros, he's too far gone for them to give him the love and acceptance he really wanted.
Would be even better if after climbing up through the pipes the first person he killed in the rock was tysha and he only realized it after the castle was taken. He finally gets what he always wanted but now is more sad and self hating than ever before. He finally becomes the real imp.
I figured she got “Exiled” to Lys as in sold into slavery. Lys is Essos’ red light district a place multiple Targaryens and notable people ended up throughout World of Ice and Fire and whose traders are mentioned frequenting major Westerosi ports. It is also a place Tyrion could travel to at some point or that could have its slaves liberated by Dany. Depending on how villainous he is at the paint will decide if he realises it is her.
I can't see why Tywin needs to keep Tysha around to look for heirs, the most pivotal part of her story is tywin making himself and all his gaurd force themselves onto her. If he is worried or focused on an heir he wouldn't have given her additional chances to get pregnant in a time period that aligns so closely to when she and tyrion were together. Plus if I'm not mistaken the wedding was annulled so that would make any child a bastard and not an heir. Not saying the theory would be invalid, just that Tywin would likely need another reason to want to keep her close initially
Well, we *do* know what Tywin eventually does with another one of Tyrion’s partners. It may very well be he kept Tysha around under the *pretense* of monitoring for heirs, but truly for a much darker purpose…
Yeah would make more sense for him to kill her if it’s heirs he’s worried about. I honestly suspect if this is true then he did it to have something to lord over Tyrion. Say Tyrion finally stood up to him and tried to claim his rights (as the law would favor him when Tywin dies) all Tywin has to do is let it be known that if Tyrion won’t play ball tyshea dies.
I would also add that it's not really a tightly grasped secret that Tyrion had a wife and if the child had the some of tyrion's very recognizable traits people would put the puzzle pieces together.
I mean, it's fairly obvious. There's also the parallel between Tyrion and Lann the Clever, with both being known not for their brawn but their brains. Lann is said to have crept through some cleft of the rock, and Tyrion climbing through the sewers would be replicating the actions of his ancestor, both taking the Rock by trickery. There's the level of irony that despite his deformity, or perhaps because of it, Tyrion would embody the original Lannister more truly than Tywin ever did.
Would make sense for Tywin to keep her close just as he does with Shae. Maybe that whole thing with Shae should be a clue that Tywin kept Tysha around. Tyrion asks Tywin about Tysha after finding Shae in Tywin’s bed. For Tywin ‘wherever wh*res go’ means his bed. The answer has been under our noses this whole time. Of course Tyrion doesn’t have a nose…
having had the Red Wedding and Purple Wedding spoiled (duh) , the Tysha reveal left me reeling and i couldn’t wait to hear from both brothers perspectives
I had a similar experience, knew the major deaths going in, so the biggest shock I had was finding out Jon Arryns true killer. Love this story for having so many moments like that, that it’s almost impossible to not come out surprised by something
You’ve mistaken Tywin’s last words for “Wherever whores go”, when actually he said “wherever horse goes”. This reveals that Tysha was ahorse so that’s why Tyrion never saw her again. She was in the Casterly Rock stables this whole time!
Tysha being so close to Tyrion the whole time is a very tragic thought indeed. It makes sense but I still hope it's not the case, I hope there could be a happier answer.
Well done, as any good theory it is based in actual literary analysis and as you say this really fits the way GRRM likes to set things up. Casterly Rock seems to be the most sensible location from a plot perspective. If she's anywhere else any reveal or reunion would hinge on plot contrivance. Casterly Rock is the only place that seems like somewhere both her and Tyrion would end up. And them being together there (not that I would bet the house on a happy ending) would be the realization of Tywins worst nightmare, which is a nice thematic add on.
If it was the Sailors Wife for example, the reveal would demand Tyrion going to a random brothel in Braavos to find this person who was last seen on the other side of the world and has no good reason to be there. If GRRM resolved plot points like that we would have had Dream of Spring a long time ago
Let's hope Tyrion doesn't find her. Both are just beyond broken at this point it would be a worse end. Let Tyrion keep his fantasy of a better time before he ruins that too.
The book draws more attention to Tysha, I think, because they presented Tyrion's relationship with Shae as "love," whereas in the book, she was a prostitute that he had an ongoing relationship with, but they were clearly not in love.
I always thought she was a dead... Isnt it a play on the whole "where do ___ go when they die?" I never thought that Tywin would let his sons wife live. I always thought Tyrion asking people the question was him either being bitter or not wanting to accept his fathers implications and believe that she has to be SOMEWHERE. and not just dead despite her obviously being dead. Its Tyrion wanting to believe that despite all of the horrors hes experienced, there is still a possibility of a happy ending for him. The possibility that there is someone out there that truly loves him. Tyrions question of "where do whores go?" Is a representation of his fleeting belief that he is deserving of love. That in this world of evil there is some peice that can truly be unconditionally his... at least that has always been my theory.
if this is true, you think Tywin, sick and twisted fuck that he is, ever 'visited' Tysha to personally 'question' her like he did with Shae? Would be some Euron-level malice from him to do that after having her gangraped, but fits his character. Also, George has stated there's a character he regrets having killed off as they would have served a purpose in some future plot points, and it's been often theorized to be Kevan. This could add another layer to that, without Kevan around Tyrion can only find once he gets to the Rock, instead of having his uncle tell him as a captive or something
this is probably the best theory regarding tysha, I'm stuck on the sailor's wife theory, but this has convinced me to pivot hard. great vid Preston, you make waiting for the winds of winter bearable lmao
A credible theory, though I suspect we'll end up learning not where Tysha is, but where she went - that is, Tyrion's story is likely to end with him a bittersweet revelation of what became of her (perhaps exactly what you suggest - almost the Westerosi equivalent of being sent to a nice farm upstate) rather than an actual reunion. Bear in mind, after all, that Tyrion only knew Tysha for a blissful little honeymoon period. That doesn't mean his feelings weren't genuine, but it does mean they were never fully formed when Tysha was removed from the action, becoming an idea to him as much as a person. Laying aside the appalling way Tywin treated her, I've always read the whole Tysha episode as a commentary on the tremendous influence that giddy youthful experiences - a teenage fling, a missed opportunity, a band you put more effort into than the other guys - can have on the formation of adult personalities and relationships. I used to know a guy whose entire personality was constructed around the movie Highlander, who I found the most annoyingly shallow nitwit in the world until I found out what had been going on in his life around the time that movie came out, after which I had a lot more time for him. Most people have something like that in their backgrounds, and once you know about it, it can be the key to everything. A carefree teenage excursion out from under your father's thumb with a pretty little anti-Cersei who (through no fault of her own) didn't stick around long enough to prevent you from idealising her would fit the bill perfectly. As such Tysha may have actually shot her bolt, explaining almost everything we need to know about Tyrion; just as we don't actually need Jon Snow back after Hardhome, we don't actually need Tysha back for her to perform her central narrative function. If Martin says we'll find out what happened to her, then we must do him the courtesy of believing him and await the revelation (and its dramatic effect) with interest, but I don't think it means we'll actually see the poor woman herself again. The author who knocked over Robb Stark to avoid the son-avenging-his-father cliche seems unlikely to indulge the emotional reunion trope - "They embraced, and he didn't care if the wetness on his face was tears or rain" would be about the most hackneyed sentence for Martin to end Tyrion's story with. Apart from anything else Black Sails kind of beat him to the punch. That's a lot of words to add a minor qualification to a theory I think makes a lot of sense. Keep 'em coming.
Even if Tyrion found Tysha, would she still feel the same for him as she once did. Alot of years passed and both suffered trauma, not just Tyrions face being destroyed. Who knows if they will meet again.
if they do than it would be an ugly reunion. imagine: the man who saved you and married you but his father traumatized you and you lived horribly life after that. she would hate him
great theory! i’ve personally always thought that tywin kept tysha around for himself, like he did with shae, so tyrion might have been sent to work to keep him away from tywins quarters and maybe when he got bored of her he sent her to kevan and his wife. i also hold some belief that she could possibly be septa lemore.. though the jurys still out on that one
@ probably! though it has been like 15 years or something she might look completely different, it’s not a bulletproof theory by any means i just like the idea of tysha and tyrion having already met lol
Quinn, who’s letting you cook purely original theories in 2025? This is madness. I first read AGOT when I was 13, and the rest in the following years. Went down all the forum rabbit holes one could imagine in my “copious spare time” as George puts it. Not once did I come across something like this. Honestly, besides finding out she’s dead, this is the only Tysha theory that I even see as plausible. I can even picture the line being something along the lines of “She was right here, under my nose all along… at the very least, when I still had one” or something. Don’t claim to have GRRM prose skills 💀
Ok so, i was confused at the part where Tywin has to keep Tysha as a really big secret, and trusts his brother's house with her. Why does he need her alive? I just dont understand why if she is such a threat to him, why not just have her disappeared? Am i missing something?
@@clownpendotfart yeah exactly. I feel like the whole theory hinges on Tywin needing to keep Tysha alive, and keep her close even after 9 months. Willing to admit I missed a piece in the video but I'm not making the connection
This is a great theory! I feel like I’ve only really heard of Tysha being the Salior’s Wife, and it’s nice to hear a well thought out theory that says otherwise!
9:53 Any children born to Tysha would easily be a bastard and therefore valueless in the eyes on Tywin especially after he ran a train on her, it could be anyones child, and he/any men he had could attest to it being theirs.
She's in Lys. The books always mention the pleasure houses there. That's also where Edric Storm is. Dany is going to end up there with Tyrion and they'll run into both of them
Continuing to love your character playlists! Particularly the fact that you share my "one Springsteen song per playlist" rule that I set for characters in my writing. "My Best Was Never Good Enough" is the perfect vibe for Tyrion; a melancholy string of literary cliches, sung sarcastically by somebody fed-up with trying to be "good enough" for people who will never accept him.
Tysha is Lann the Clever reborn. Prove me wrong. But joke aside, one issue I have with this is if Tywin was afraid of Tysha and Tyrion producing an heir, why didn't he just have her killed? I don't think there's anyone who could stop him.
Great theory; I'm sold on it. I think it also fits in with some other parallels and a foreshadowing: 1--Tywin hid Tysha with his brother, Kevan, and had relations with her. This parallels Tyrion hiding Shae, and also parallels Tywin stealing Tyrion's women. 2--Cersei will end up retreating to the Westerlands because that answers the question, "where do whores go?". 3--Tyrion's quest is to reunite with Tysha; she's in Casterly Rock which is west of King's Landing, however, when Tyrion leaves King's Landing he travels in the wrong direction--to Essos. This is because, "to go west you must go east".
This is wild and very interesting! I think you could be onto something. The detail of Kevan's wife remaining at home is very compelling to me. If you are right, I wonder if actually Tywin's fathers mistress was actually also kept around. Publicly banished, but secretly kept in pocket at Kevan's, to keep her from being taken in somewhere else and being an embarrassment of some kind. I wonder if Kevan, when moving his household to the Rock, would risk bringing Tysha. Tyrion could show up there someday. But perhaps the calculation would be different for the other woman. It could be Tyrion meeting her that gives him a clue about where to look for Tysha. Great work!
"Gave his sons wife to the Lannister guards, then himself, then Tyrion" Did Tywin have sex with Tysha aswell? I don't remember anything like that whebn I read the books but admittedly been a few years since I read them, but I'm pretty sure he didn't "partake" in her, it would have went massively against the image he tried to project.
"After Jaime had made his confession, to drive home the lesson, Lord Tywin brought my wife in and gave her to his guards. They paid her fair enough. A silver for each man, how many whores command that high a price? He sat me down in the corner of the barracks and bade me watch, and at the end she had so many silvers the coins were slipping through her fingers and rolling on the floor, she …" The smoke was stinging his eyes. Tyrion cleared his throat and turned away from the fire, to gaze out into darkness. "Lord Tywin had me go last," he said in a quiet voice. "And he gave me a gold coin to pay her, because I was a Lannister, and worth more."
Interesting theory. I wonder how much impact Tysha will have on Tyrion's endgame, and I wonder overall if he's even meant to find her. I personally think she is meant to haunt him. I wonder what narrative value reuniting Tyrion with her would bring. Potentially, it could be a step in redeeming Tyrion's character? The idea of her having Tyrion's child is very interesting as well, makes a lot of sense for Tywin to keep her close by. One issue I wanted to point out: Kevan Lannister's family are not the Lannisters of Lannisport, as you mention in "The Secret Keeper" section. As I recall, he is a household knight, but not a landed lord of House Lannister, meaning his residence would have probably been Casterly Rock the whole time. The Lannisters of Lannisport are a cadet branch and we don't really know anything about them? I think the only member of that family that we see is Rosamund, Myrcella's companion and lookalike. Do we know that Kevan lived in Lannisport at that time? I don't recall this ever being mentioned. This is also why Kevan is very aggressive about pushing a marriage for Lancel with the Darrys, since it finally gives Kevan's family their own lands. Following your theory, it's still possible that Kevan and Dorna likely played a role in keeping Tysha hidden, but if they really did live in Casterly Rock, how did they do that? Alternatively, he may have kept her with the Lannisters of Lannisport anyway. If I'm wrong about this, please correct me, I'm searching for any sources that place Kevan in Lannisport at any point in his life, but I have found nothing.
I like this, we don't get a lot of new theories that are grounded and not tied to speculation on the magic of the world. This rings true to me. I've always struggled with the concept that tysha was a secs worker now thematically. Also with the idea of tyrion meeting her in essos somewhere feels contrived in a way that grrms plots usually aren't. Hitting him at his low point when he orders men to kill all the staff to prevent word getting out when they enter the bottom of the rock only to immediately see tysha either dead or before he can stop it and break while his men take the castle. His "victory" turning to ash in his mouth before it's even complete. A punishment for being more like tywin and one that reflects tywins cruelty in his own. All very grrm. The more I think on this the more obvious it seems. The point on tywin sending away someone who could be pregnant is very true and seems so obvious in hindsight. I also believe it's said that it was "handed off to the steward to deal with" meaning that the chances of her being part of the household staff is supported by the person in charge of the household staff being who tywin thinks off in relation to her. Even if not his own household.
Hoares ruled harrenhal and thus tysha being a hoare is the rightful heir to harrenhal and Tyrion and her will rule the iron islands riverlands and westerlands
Am not so sure about this, tansy tea is a thing, if he was worried about her producing a child he could just force her to dink everyday for a few months and after a year send her away, or you know he could just kill her. Your theory seems overly complicated for a character that doesn’t really have moral problems with killing.
That one line you said was hilarious, the one where you said at the conclusion of the story. I just checked with Vegas and the official betting line on George ever finishing the series is 99,999 to 1
Tysha is Quiathe who is actually Euron... Who is acctually bloodraven, who is actually time traveling Bran. Also Howland Reed might be in on it, trust me.
I thought to myself that "this title sounds like clickbait" but I clicked anyway. Well played Quinn. Edit: Given the horrific punishment that Tywin inflicted on Tysha, I don't think Tywin would assume that any child Tysha might have had after her marriage to Tyrion was annulled was of Lannister blood.
Tyrion was in charge of drains and sewers of the Rock. In The Mystery Knight we have a dwarf climb through the privy to get past guards. And we already have Dany sending forces through a sewer to capture a city. With so much foreshadowing it would be bizarre if C Rock was not captured using the sewers to infiltrate.
Keeping her close for a potential heir doesn’t make sense after nine months, though. And probably one of the reasons for forcing so many men on her was to further put paternity in question if she did get pregnant, in addition to humiliating her and teaching Tyrion a lesson.
That was definitely one of the reasons behind his torture of Tysha - as to why keep her around, I think even removed from the possibility of an heir he wouldn’t want the story of Tyrion’s marriage getting out, so he’d likely just continue with it.
@@QuinnTheGM The story is already out. His family brings it up in conversation, I believe it's been mentioned in Small Council meetings, the Faith know about it, and all those guards. I'd say instead that Tywin wanted it to be public to deter any more smallfolk from trying such a course of action.
I remember reading of an old house sigil having a chest full of silver coins and one gold coin. Knowing Tywin method of punishment to other houses, it seems Tysha belongs to a noble family
I really like this theory and you've clearly put a lot of thought into it, but I do have one problem with it. If Tywin was really that concerned about the possibility of Tysha bearing Tyrion's child, Why wouldn't he just have her killed? It's not like he'd spare a second thought for the life of a commoner. Also 0:58 I don't think it's mentioned anywhere that Tywin himself directly participated in the rape itself and considering how much he projects the (false) image of being above sleeping with prostitutes it would be incredibly out of character for him to do so.
Not a chance man, sorry. If Tywin were so worried about her being pregnant with Tyrion's heir why would he take her himself as well? Thus potentially creating his own heir?? Jeyne Westerling is NOT a fair comparison. Jeyne is not only Highborn but, is daughter to one of the Lannister's Bannermen. If they were worried about a serving girl's baby they would've just had her killed. It's not like Tywin is shy about things like that...
As someone who hasn't actually read ASOIAF, or watched GOT, hearing "And there's only one person Tywin Lannister would trust with such detrimental information... His brother, Kevin" threw me for a loop
It would be fitting for Martin's style and thinking if the end of A Song of Ice and Fire see bastards and children from mesalliances in most major seats. Gendry, Sweetrobin, a child of Tyrion and Tysha, Jon, Aegon and the Sand Snakes. If he decides that "the bastards shall inherit the earth", he would have enough pieces in play to make it happen.
Tysha's baby, if indeed, there was a baby, would need to look exquisitely Lannister-like for Tywin to have had any pity on the child. Tywin directed that Tysha be gang-r-worded by his guard. There's no westerosi "23andme" to confirm Tyrion as the father of any baby Tysha bears. BUT, if Tysha's baby comes out green eyed and golden of hair, I could see Tywin reacting like Roose Bolton did when Roose saw Ramsay's eyes.
Tywin’s orchestration of Tysha’s gang🍇 was specifically so that any child she bore could never truly be a valid claimant because even with green eyes and blonde hair, unless the child literally had dwarfism and heterochromia, no one would ever believe it was Tyrion’s
@@emilybarclay8831 I think we're trying to answer different questions. You are trying to answer what other people would expect Tyrion's child to look like. I'm trying to answer what it would take for Tywin to pity the child.
"I went to Lys with Lord Tywin once when he was hand to King Aerys" - Unnamed Lannister guard to Raff, Mercy, TWOW. Not like Lys is known for its active sex trade or anything.
All Tywin would need to do is keep her around for 9 months and now that there’s no child he could get rid of her. I could see Tywin charging Kevan to just get rid of her and Kevin takes pity on her and keeps her in his household under the nose of both Tywin and Tyrion
@@QuinnTheGM The intent was to publicly humiliate the mistress. After that, he didn't care what happened to her. Nor would it matter if the mistress turned up saying she was pregnant, since she had never been married and thus the child would be a bastard.
Also Thein didn’t pusnish his dads Mistress because she got roamnticcaly involved with Tyros, he punished her for overstepping her boundaries by presuming the lordship and rule of the castle while also invading the belongings of Tywin’s mother
My God, another ten years without a new entry in the series and we'll start discussing the epistemological positions on ontology of all the cultures of Westeros and Essos.
No idea where Tysha is but I think it’s entirely possible that Penny is Tysha and Tyrion’s daughter. This could also have dark implications depending on what Tyrion’s treatment will be towards Penny.
Amazing video! I think you are right and I also think that Tywin loved Tyrion. I think putting Tyrion in charge of the sewers gave him control and knowledge of 95% of the Rock. I think Bronn was Tywin’s agent when he joined Cat’s party at the Inn at the Crossroads to protect Tyrion. And also when he selected Shae from Tywin’s camp
Robb's wife Jeyne was in a completely different situation than Tysha. Jeyne's marriage was never annulled, and Tyrion didn't have political supporters like Robb who would be likely to rally around such an heir. Jeyne also only had to be secluded & watched for long enough to ensure she didn't have a child, that time period passed years ago for Tysha. There would no longer be any need to hang onto her, even under your theory. Really, the notion that Tywin is fixated on the inheritance of Casterly Rock is at odds with his actual behavior. Jaime was the in the Kingsguard for years, disqualifying him from inheriting, even while Tywin insisted he was heir. What was Tywin doing about Jaime's vows prohibiting such an inheritance? NOTHING! He only tries to remove Jaime from the KG after Barristan's dismissal has set a precedent and Jaime's loss of a hand creates an excuse for why he can't do his job. You have a very different notion of what constitutes a "smoking gun" than I do. There are lots of characters mentioned together in a single paragraph, that's not enough to indicate they've ever had anything to do with each other.
She's the handmaid that's shrinking Cersei's gowns.
HAHAHA
New headcannon unlocked
😂
👏😆
Girl, bye
Tysha turned into a horse to live out a life with Tyrek. She went wherever horse go
@Glidus get on this
Tysha is actually the secret mother of Tyrek, and a northerner (dark hair, and blue eyes). Tysha and Tyrion met when he was 13. At some point in the same year Tyrek was born. Coincidence? I think not. This is why Tyrek can become a horse, something we see the Starks do most of all. Upon learning that Tysha had fathered Tyrion’s son, Tywin was conflicted as he did not want to throw away a strong boy with the Lannister features so he made lil bro look after him or made lil bro’s widow look after him whilst he figured out what to do. Then he kind of forgot. So, yes, Tysha is a horse and finally reunited with her son Tyrek.
Brilliant.
Just did a horse laugh at this. Golden comment.
@@Quipek I came to comment the same thing haha
Me clicking this video: "Wow!! Has Quinn solved the mystery of Tyrion's long lost acrobatics proficiency??"
Tyrion being able to do a flip will become incredibly plot-relevant in TWOW
@@QuinnTheGM Quinn "Turns out, the human nose is the center of gravity in any well executed somersault."
@@Rhoxmaster316 LMAO amazing
my theory is he ate shit and fell over but jon misinterpreted it as impressive while drunk
*Monkey flip*
Tysha is in the walls of the tower of the hand scheming to kill my sweet boy Tommen
When I'm done with her, she will be singing to the stranger begging for his kiss
Who gave cersei a phone?
So true queen, speak your truth❤️👑
Cersei who let you have access to UA-cam
But Cercei, honey, you burned the Tower of the Hand.
I always thought Tywin had no idea where she went, and “wherever whores go” was a dismissive quote insulting Tyrion. Tyrion knows this and his repetition of the phrase is him trying to rationalize it and try and find some meaning from Tywin’s last words.
That's probably it but people like to look too far into things
Probably, but there's no reason to believe Tywin said that because he honestly didn't know. He likely said it because he knew it would hurt Tyrion, and he's never been overly fond of his youngest child.
Exactly this. It's tragic but that's it
I hate when content creators use clickbaity titles like this. It really makes me lose respect for them. It gets the video a down vote and I don't even bother watching it.
That is exactly right. Tywin doesn't know and Tyrion will never find out. It's quite likely that she is dead.
thats absolutely what I assumed when I read the chapters where it comes up
Tysha used the silver and gold to play the Westerosi stock market, and eventually sailed to Braavos with her winnings, and secured herself a job at the Iron Bank. She also briefly trained with the Faceless Men and is posing as Tycho Nestoris, backing Stannis to exact revenge on the Lannisters.
TYsha = TYcho, spread the word
🍳
Yup! That's the one!!
"someone cooked here."
Stock markets are an early modern invention.
Tyrion climbing through the sewers at Casterly Rock would be fitting since GRRM had the dwarf in Mystery Knight climb through the privy to steal the dragons egg
Tyrion was in charge of drains and sewers of the Rock.
And we already have Dany sending forces through a sewer to capture a city.
With so much foreshadowing it would be bizarre if C Rock was not captured using the sewers to infiltrate.
Tisha is actually Howland Reed who is actually Bloodraven who is actually Mushroom
Don't you forget that Mushroom is actually Daario
@@thenic3stguyyou forgot to mention that Daario is actually Euron Greyjoy
and they're all jaqen haghar
@@Wanup_VodkaWho might be Azor Ahai come again.
🤯
"Give me sweet lies, and keep your bitter truths." OH MAN GRRM'S PROSE IS THIS ELEGANT?? I should check these books out!!
Maybe you could even make some videos about these books idk
Winds of Winter is just Todd Howard quotes for 1400 pages
Just be ready for the blue balls to come as we wait
I believe that Lanna is Tyrion's daughter and The Sailors Wife is Tysha. All the typical 'evidence' notwithstanding I think Lanna is what proves it! She's golden haired and 14 years old (Tyrion is roughly 27 I believe and got married at 13 so the ages match). Going back to aGOT, one of Bobby B's bastards was a girl was named Barra, named for the shortening of Baratheon. Lanna fits the exact same naming style for Lannister.
If your numbers are right it does work rather well
I think her father is Tyrion's uncle Gerion Lannister.
its commonly thought that geogre forgot to un-age Lanna George was gonna do a timeskip and this was a first chapter so she's way younger i think 11 or 9
I think Gerion's confirmed bastard daughter Joy Hill is younger then Lanna.
So Gerion went to Bravos on one of his voyages, „married” The Sailor's Wife, impregnated her with Lanna and then went back to Westeros got with Briony and they had Joy Hill?
@@marigold2459 yea 2 things 1 its thought that this is 1 of the early chapters geogre did and didnt go back to refix it.... and tyrion and her stayed at a sea town when they married so she could be refuring to that
Tysha reveal could be a great ending to Tyrion's story. He becomes the monster and we leave with him meeting his first love, a woman who hasn't seen him since he was a child. Could be a great contrast showing how far Tyrion falls by the end. To the point even his wife no longer recognises him.
So…a Better Call Saul ending
Tysha: “You had them for 7 years.”
Tyrion: “Yeah, I did.”
Tysha: “86 years.”
Tyrion: “86 years but, with good behavior, who knows?”
@@nont18411 I am sorry. but Jimmy never even did something so horrific to her as Tyrion to Tysha. It cannot be that she "finds out" the monster he has become, since she saw the monster back then, when he raped her after all others and payed her for her "services".
To be fair, last time she saw him he was treating her to frappe.
This doesn't make a ton of sense, both logistically and thematically.
1.) Tywin could easily have had Tysha killed, there's no reason for him to keep her around. Jeyne Westerling is a bad comparison because Jeyne is both high born and her family conspired with Tywin. Tysha was some commoner who could easily be disposed of.
Even if Tywin randomly didn't want to kill Tysha, she could have just been given moon tea. Even if they didn't do that and Tysha was pregnant, Tywin had her assaulted by dozens of men so parentage would be utterly impossible to prove. If Tysha didn't get pregnant in such a scenario, there's no reason to keep her around after a couple months, she could have been forced out of the Westerlands and as a peasant she wouldn't have means or reason to return to Tyrion.
2.) Tywin's whole character is based on shame. Tywin feels shame based on the actions of others, especially in or relating to his family, so he seeks to brutally humiliate the perpetrators of whatever made him feel shame. Tywin humiliates Tytos' mistress, Tyrion, Tysha, etc. Tywin doesn't actually care too much about the succession and isn't actually nearly as Machiavellian as everybody thinks, either in universe or reading. If Tywin was actually concerned with securing succession, he would have remarried shortly after his wife died birthing Tyrion. He doesn't because he probably found the idea to be shameful. What I'm getting at is that Tysha was an object of shame to Tywin and he would be likely to brutally dispose of her like the mistress or the Reynes/Tarbecks. This is as opposed to Tyrion, who Tywin HAD to keep around to not incur further shame on the family name.
Exactly my thoughts are if he did keep her around it would be to have something to threaten Tyrion with if he dared stand up for himself
Yeah I do think he did as he said, kicked her out and didn't pay attention to where she went as long as she left Lannisport.
All good points bar Tywin remarried, for all his flaws I believe he didn't remarry because he loved his wife similar to how Cersei loves her children, and he could not replace her
I disagree entirely. What did tywin do with another "source of shame" that was public in the trial, Shae. He didn't have her killed or banished. He kept her close and in his "employ" where he could keep her quiet and not be used against him.
We are told moon tea doesn't always work. We are shown examples in the history of false claimants ruining houses. Tysha could return with any kid who fancies himself a lord and pose a threat to the lannisters, they don't exactly have dna tests in westeros.
I think saying tywin is obsessed with "shame" is a misreading of the text. Tywin is obsessed with the perception of his house. We see the tunnel in the tower of the hand that is evidently his. We see shae in his bed. We see his hatred of tyrion yet takes drastic action when tyrion is moved against. This isn't some sort of strong moral fiber that would lead to shame, it's a cynical, calculated set of actions to make the lannisters *seem* strong, seem honourable, seem united.
I think he cares a lot about legacy and lineage, see his arguement with Jaime about leaving the kingsguard and his maneuvering to get a lannister on the throne. What else would you call that? Disregarding honour and oaths in the aim of a strong lannister household and continuing his lineage. I think its clear he didn't take another wife because he still considered Jaime to be his heir and expected his line to continue there. If not, as he says there is no shortage of lannisters. He has able brothers and nephews and grandchildren. Until joffery's death the clear choice for inheritance of casterly rock was Tommen, his line was not in peril he had multiple heirs.
I completely agree, and in addition - commoner bastards are not a big deal. Show aside (please let's forget that season), Gendry is not inheriting Storm's End. Dragon Stone is full of dragon seeds, but none of them have any money or power, none challenge Robert to the throne after Aries' death. Tyrion's marriage was declared null and void, so any children aren't even a "Hill" in title.
However, I could see Tywin giving his brother the task of getting rid of Tysha, and Kevan having his wife take her to the silent sisters or something. That would set up Dorna a source at Casterly Rock who could inform Tyrion of Tysha's whereabouts.
Tysha is Darkstar. That's why Darkstar attacks Myrcella in AFFC.
Tysha is a ho
Hos are also sometimes referred to as women of the night
Darkstar is of the night
She is a lady of the night
The sands were duly grateful.
Logical. She was protecting her child’s claim against Myrcella’s
Tysha is in a pasture in the Westerlands - "Wherever horse go"
😭😭
this would be such a gut punch. Tyrion gets Casterly Rock and Tysha like he's always wanted but it's at the end of his mad bitter vengance tour across westeros, he's too far gone for them to give him the love and acceptance he really wanted.
Would be even better if after climbing up through the pipes the first person he killed in the rock was tysha and he only realized it after the castle was taken. He finally gets what he always wanted but now is more sad and self hating than ever before. He finally becomes the real imp.
I figured she got “Exiled” to Lys as in sold into slavery. Lys is Essos’ red light district a place multiple Targaryens and notable people ended up throughout World of Ice and Fire and whose traders are mentioned frequenting major Westerosi ports. It is also a place Tyrion could travel to at some point or that could have its slaves liberated by Dany. Depending on how villainous he is at the paint will decide if he realises it is her.
"Tysha is in Castelry Rock" of course, she wrote the pink letter there
I can't see why Tywin needs to keep Tysha around to look for heirs, the most pivotal part of her story is tywin making himself and all his gaurd force themselves onto her. If he is worried or focused on an heir he wouldn't have given her additional chances to get pregnant in a time period that aligns so closely to when she and tyrion were together. Plus if I'm not mistaken the wedding was annulled so that would make any child a bastard and not an heir. Not saying the theory would be invalid, just that Tywin would likely need another reason to want to keep her close initially
I came her to say just that.
Well, we *do* know what Tywin eventually does with another one of Tyrion’s partners. It may very well be he kept Tysha around under the *pretense* of monitoring for heirs, but truly for a much darker purpose…
Yeah would make more sense for him to kill her if it’s heirs he’s worried about. I honestly suspect if this is true then he did it to have something to lord over Tyrion. Say Tyrion finally stood up to him and tried to claim his rights (as the law would favor him when Tywin dies) all Tywin has to do is let it be known that if Tyrion won’t play ball tyshea dies.
I would also add that it's not really a tightly grasped secret that Tyrion had a wife and if the child had the some of tyrion's very recognizable traits people would put the puzzle pieces together.
Perhaps Tywin didn't: maybe Kevan took pity on her, and took her as a serving wench.
She is in a little town called “Wares horsgogh” Tywin was being honest, Tyrion just got offended and doesn’t know his geography.
Beautiful place near Gulltown in Mountain and Wales
Quinn found out where 'they' go while Tyrion was flabberghasted for a whole book 😂
Makes since. Where do whores go? Where the money is. Where is the largest amount of gold in Westeros? Castely fucking rock.
To be fair, it's been decades since Tywin spilled the beans, and Tyrion was not flabbergasted for decades. So. You know.
Mushroom tells us that Tysha was actually the bastard daughter of maester aemon,making her a secret targaryen
Mushroom was long dead before tyrion
@Brandonhayhew Septon Eustace tells us that Mushroom is the bastard child of bloodraven and a whitewalker, making him a secret targaryen
@@JAlves_17 what have you been smoking
@@BrandonhayhewMushrooms of course.
@@RKNGL Mushrooms
I’ve never even considered him taking the rock by sewer, it does make sense tho and would make the mention of his intimate knowledge of them relevant.
Honestly the only way to take the rock without a number of Lannister hostages to force them into surrender.
I mean, it's fairly obvious. There's also the parallel between Tyrion and Lann the Clever, with both being known not for their brawn but their brains. Lann is said to have crept through some cleft of the rock, and Tyrion climbing through the sewers would be replicating the actions of his ancestor, both taking the Rock by trickery. There's the level of irony that despite his deformity, or perhaps because of it, Tyrion would embody the original Lannister more truly than Tywin ever did.
Tywin was trying to say where ever Horse! go, Ie tyrek
Would make sense for Tywin to keep her close just as he does with Shae. Maybe that whole thing with Shae should be a clue that Tywin kept Tysha around. Tyrion asks Tywin about Tysha after finding Shae in Tywin’s bed. For Tywin ‘wherever wh*res go’ means his bed. The answer has been under our noses this whole time. Of course Tyrion doesn’t have a nose…
oh my god, it's so obvious now...
Considering how freaky Tywin is I wouldn't be surprised if after all the guards and Tyrion were done with her he had a go at her too in private.
That is more coerrent than a heir
having had the Red Wedding and Purple Wedding spoiled (duh) , the Tysha reveal left me reeling and i couldn’t wait to hear from both brothers perspectives
I had a similar experience, knew the major deaths going in, so the biggest shock I had was finding out Jon Arryns true killer. Love this story for having so many moments like that, that it’s almost impossible to not come out surprised by something
Maybe the real Tysha is the friends we made along the way
You’ve mistaken Tywin’s last words for “Wherever whores go”, when actually he said “wherever horse goes”. This reveals that Tysha was ahorse so that’s why Tyrion never saw her again. She was in the Casterly Rock stables this whole time!
Tysha being so close to Tyrion the whole time is a very tragic thought indeed. It makes sense but I still hope it's not the case, I hope there could be a happier answer.
GRRM does not do happy... i'm sorry
Well done, as any good theory it is based in actual literary analysis and as you say this really fits the way GRRM likes to set things up. Casterly Rock seems to be the most sensible location from a plot perspective. If she's anywhere else any reveal or reunion would hinge on plot contrivance. Casterly Rock is the only place that seems like somewhere both her and Tyrion would end up. And them being together there (not that I would bet the house on a happy ending) would be the realization of Tywins worst nightmare, which is a nice thematic add on.
If it was the Sailors Wife for example, the reveal would demand Tyrion going to a random brothel in Braavos to find this person who was last seen on the other side of the world and has no good reason to be there. If GRRM resolved plot points like that we would have had Dream of Spring a long time ago
Let's hope Tyrion doesn't find her. Both are just beyond broken at this point it would be a worse end. Let Tyrion keep his fantasy of a better time before he ruins that too.
Finally a comment that ins't some joke. After watching this I think he will find her dead or a wight or something
Tyrion unknowingly kills Tysha while taking the Rock, and later recognizes her as his lost love . Barber of Fleet Street style.
The book draws more attention to Tysha, I think, because they presented Tyrion's relationship with Shae as "love," whereas in the book, she was a prostitute that he had an ongoing relationship with, but they were clearly not in love.
I always thought she was a dead...
Isnt it a play on the whole "where do ___ go when they die?" I never thought that Tywin would let his sons wife live. I always thought Tyrion asking people the question was him either being bitter or not wanting to accept his fathers implications and believe that she has to be SOMEWHERE. and not just dead despite her obviously being dead. Its Tyrion wanting to believe that despite all of the horrors hes experienced, there is still a possibility of a happy ending for him. The possibility that there is someone out there that truly loves him. Tyrions question of "where do whores go?" Is a representation of his fleeting belief that he is deserving of love. That in this world of evil there is some peice that can truly be unconditionally his... at least that has always been my theory.
if this is true, you think Tywin, sick and twisted fuck that he is, ever 'visited' Tysha to personally 'question' her like he did with Shae? Would be some Euron-level malice from him to do that after having her gangraped, but fits his character.
Also, George has stated there's a character he regrets having killed off as they would have served a purpose in some future plot points, and it's been often theorized to be Kevan. This could add another layer to that, without Kevan around Tyrion can only find once he gets to the Rock, instead of having his uncle tell him as a captive or something
this is probably the best theory regarding tysha, I'm stuck on the sailor's wife theory, but this has convinced me to pivot hard. great vid Preston, you make waiting for the winds of winter bearable lmao
A credible theory, though I suspect we'll end up learning not where Tysha is, but where she went - that is, Tyrion's story is likely to end with him a bittersweet revelation of what became of her (perhaps exactly what you suggest - almost the Westerosi equivalent of being sent to a nice farm upstate) rather than an actual reunion.
Bear in mind, after all, that Tyrion only knew Tysha for a blissful little honeymoon period. That doesn't mean his feelings weren't genuine, but it does mean they were never fully formed when Tysha was removed from the action, becoming an idea to him as much as a person. Laying aside the appalling way Tywin treated her, I've always read the whole Tysha episode as a commentary on the tremendous influence that giddy youthful experiences - a teenage fling, a missed opportunity, a band you put more effort into than the other guys - can have on the formation of adult personalities and relationships. I used to know a guy whose entire personality was constructed around the movie Highlander, who I found the most annoyingly shallow nitwit in the world until I found out what had been going on in his life around the time that movie came out, after which I had a lot more time for him. Most people have something like that in their backgrounds, and once you know about it, it can be the key to everything.
A carefree teenage excursion out from under your father's thumb with a pretty little anti-Cersei who (through no fault of her own) didn't stick around long enough to prevent you from idealising her would fit the bill perfectly. As such Tysha may have actually shot her bolt, explaining almost everything we need to know about Tyrion; just as we don't actually need Jon Snow back after Hardhome, we don't actually need Tysha back for her to perform her central narrative function. If Martin says we'll find out what happened to her, then we must do him the courtesy of believing him and await the revelation (and its dramatic effect) with interest, but I don't think it means we'll actually see the poor woman herself again. The author who knocked over Robb Stark to avoid the son-avenging-his-father cliche seems unlikely to indulge the emotional reunion trope - "They embraced, and he didn't care if the wetness on his face was tears or rain" would be about the most hackneyed sentence for Martin to end Tyrion's story with. Apart from anything else Black Sails kind of beat him to the punch.
That's a lot of words to add a minor qualification to a theory I think makes a lot of sense. Keep 'em coming.
Even if Tyrion found Tysha, would she still feel the same for him as she once did. Alot of years passed and both suffered trauma, not just Tyrions face being destroyed. Who knows if they will meet again.
if they do than it would be an ugly reunion. imagine: the man who saved you and married you but his father traumatized you and you lived horribly life after that. she would hate him
great theory! i’ve personally always thought that tywin kept tysha around for himself, like he did with shae, so tyrion might have been sent to work to keep him away from tywins quarters and maybe when he got bored of her he sent her to kevan and his wife. i also hold some belief that she could possibly be septa lemore.. though the jurys still out on that one
Wouldn't Tyrion recognize her if she was Lenore?
@@sebastienrodin8329 Theres a whole thing about him just staring at her boobs all the time (also for the Lemore = AD theory) but yeah its weak AF
@ probably! though it has been like 15 years or something she might look completely different, it’s not a bulletproof theory by any means i just like the idea of tysha and tyrion having already met lol
Quinn, who’s letting you cook purely original theories in 2025? This is madness. I first read AGOT when I was 13, and the rest in the following years. Went down all the forum rabbit holes one could imagine in my “copious spare time” as George puts it. Not once did I come across something like this. Honestly, besides finding out she’s dead, this is the only Tysha theory that I even see as plausible.
I can even picture the line being something along the lines of “She was right here, under my nose all along… at the very least, when I still had one” or something. Don’t claim to have GRRM prose skills 💀
Great video! The surprise in Quinn’s voice “and it wasn’t about Jon Connington”
Ok so, i was confused at the part where Tywin has to keep Tysha as a really big secret, and trusts his brother's house with her. Why does he need her alive? I just dont understand why if she is such a threat to him, why not just have her disappeared? Am i missing something?
And why bother after a larger amount of time than a pregnancy takes to come to term?
@@clownpendotfart yeah exactly. I feel like the whole theory hinges on Tywin needing to keep Tysha alive, and keep her close even after 9 months. Willing to admit I missed a piece in the video but I'm not making the connection
Why did Tywin keep Shae alive?
@@chrisrubin6445 that is my question, yes.
Maybe for booning purposes like with Shae?
There's a barrier to us learning "where whores go," and that it's predicated on GRRM actually finishing The Winds of Winter.
Tysha is in Baltimore. She works at a dive bar named ‘3rd Base’. Shots are $2 during Happy Hour.
This is a great theory! I feel like I’ve only really heard of Tysha being the Salior’s Wife, and it’s nice to hear a well thought out theory that says otherwise!
9:53 Any children born to Tysha would easily be a bastard and therefore valueless in the eyes on Tywin especially after he ran a train on her, it could be anyones child, and he/any men he had could attest to it being theirs.
She's in Lys. The books always mention the pleasure houses there. That's also where Edric Storm is. Dany is going to end up there with Tyrion and they'll run into both of them
Continuing to love your character playlists! Particularly the fact that you share my "one Springsteen song per playlist" rule that I set for characters in my writing. "My Best Was Never Good Enough" is the perfect vibe for Tyrion; a melancholy string of literary cliches, sung sarcastically by somebody fed-up with trying to be "good enough" for people who will never accept him.
I think Tysha transcended the book and is now walking among us somewhere
Amoonguss
I love how the lack of winds is giving everyone schizophrenia trying to solve everything
Tysha is Lann the Clever reborn. Prove me wrong.
But joke aside, one issue I have with this is if Tywin was afraid of Tysha and Tyrion producing an heir, why didn't he just have her killed? I don't think there's anyone who could stop him.
If Tywin was really scared of Tysha's son wouldn't he have just killed her ?
Great theory; I'm sold on it. I think it also fits in with some other parallels and a foreshadowing: 1--Tywin hid Tysha with his brother, Kevan, and had relations with her. This parallels Tyrion hiding Shae, and also parallels Tywin stealing Tyrion's women. 2--Cersei will end up retreating to the Westerlands because that answers the question, "where do whores go?". 3--Tyrion's quest is to reunite with Tysha; she's in Casterly Rock which is west of King's Landing, however, when Tyrion leaves King's Landing he travels in the wrong direction--to Essos. This is because, "to go west you must go east".
This is wild and very interesting! I think you could be onto something. The detail of Kevan's wife remaining at home is very compelling to me. If you are right, I wonder if actually Tywin's fathers mistress was actually also kept around. Publicly banished, but secretly kept in pocket at Kevan's, to keep her from being taken in somewhere else and being an embarrassment of some kind. I wonder if Kevan, when moving his household to the Rock, would risk bringing Tysha. Tyrion could show up there someday. But perhaps the calculation would be different for the other woman. It could be Tyrion meeting her that gives him a clue about where to look for Tysha. Great work!
Wait. Tywin didn’t have sex with her. When did that come out?
Tysha clearly turned into a horse tbh it would be really weird if Tysha slept with Tywin it’s fucked up but definitely something GRRM would do.
If she’s a horse she definitely now is together with Tyrek and they’re at the place where horses go
@@chcucivtxzclccucifudohzfu6766 So they're in the stables at the Red Keep, and Ned's perching in the rafters above them.
"Gave his sons wife to the Lannister guards, then himself, then Tyrion" Did Tywin have sex with Tysha aswell? I don't remember anything like that whebn I read the books but admittedly been a few years since I read them, but I'm pretty sure he didn't "partake" in her, it would have went massively against the image he tried to project.
"After Jaime had made his confession, to drive home the lesson, Lord Tywin brought my wife in and gave her to his guards. They paid her fair enough. A silver for each man, how many whores command that high a price? He sat me down in the corner of the barracks and bade me watch, and at the end she had so many silvers the coins were slipping through her fingers and rolling on the floor, she …" The smoke was stinging his eyes. Tyrion cleared his throat and turned away from the fire, to gaze out into darkness. "Lord Tywin had me go last," he said in a quiet voice. "And he gave me a gold coin to pay her, because I was a Lannister, and worth more."
I don't remember him ever publicly having sex with anyone other than his wife.
Interesting theory. I wonder how much impact Tysha will have on Tyrion's endgame, and I wonder overall if he's even meant to find her. I personally think she is meant to haunt him. I wonder what narrative value reuniting Tyrion with her would bring. Potentially, it could be a step in redeeming Tyrion's character? The idea of her having Tyrion's child is very interesting as well, makes a lot of sense for Tywin to keep her close by.
One issue I wanted to point out: Kevan Lannister's family are not the Lannisters of Lannisport, as you mention in "The Secret Keeper" section. As I recall, he is a household knight, but not a landed lord of House Lannister, meaning his residence would have probably been Casterly Rock the whole time. The Lannisters of Lannisport are a cadet branch and we don't really know anything about them? I think the only member of that family that we see is Rosamund, Myrcella's companion and lookalike. Do we know that Kevan lived in Lannisport at that time? I don't recall this ever being mentioned. This is also why Kevan is very aggressive about pushing a marriage for Lancel with the Darrys, since it finally gives Kevan's family their own lands.
Following your theory, it's still possible that Kevan and Dorna likely played a role in keeping Tysha hidden, but if they really did live in Casterly Rock, how did they do that? Alternatively, he may have kept her with the Lannisters of Lannisport anyway.
If I'm wrong about this, please correct me, I'm searching for any sources that place Kevan in Lannisport at any point in his life, but I have found nothing.
I like this, we don't get a lot of new theories that are grounded and not tied to speculation on the magic of the world.
This rings true to me. I've always struggled with the concept that tysha was a secs worker now thematically. Also with the idea of tyrion meeting her in essos somewhere feels contrived in a way that grrms plots usually aren't.
Hitting him at his low point when he orders men to kill all the staff to prevent word getting out when they enter the bottom of the rock only to immediately see tysha either dead or before he can stop it and break while his men take the castle.
His "victory" turning to ash in his mouth before it's even complete. A punishment for being more like tywin and one that reflects tywins cruelty in his own. All very grrm.
The more I think on this the more obvious it seems. The point on tywin sending away someone who could be pregnant is very true and seems so obvious in hindsight. I also believe it's said that it was "handed off to the steward to deal with" meaning that the chances of her being part of the household staff is supported by the person in charge of the household staff being who tywin thinks off in relation to her. Even if not his own household.
Hoares ruled harrenhal and thus tysha being a hoare is the rightful heir to harrenhal and Tyrion and her will rule the iron islands riverlands and westerlands
2:08
"Future books" 😂
Good one.
Am not so sure about this, tansy tea is a thing, if he was worried about her producing a child he could just force her to dink everyday for a few months and after a year send her away, or you know he could just kill her. Your theory seems overly complicated for a character that doesn’t really have moral problems with killing.
That one line you said was hilarious, the one where you said at the conclusion of the story. I just checked with Vegas and the official betting line on George ever finishing the series is 99,999 to 1
Tysha is Quiathe who is actually Euron... Who is acctually bloodraven, who is actually time traveling Bran. Also Howland Reed might be in on it, trust me.
And they’re all secret Targaryens
this theory almost makes too much sense, another great video as usual!
Why did Kevin save Podrisk’s life?
Did Kevin put Podrick with Tyrion because that’s Tyrion’s son?
@@facelessstranger6439 While that could be cool, the timeline just doesn't quite add up.
I thought to myself that "this title sounds like clickbait" but I clicked anyway. Well played Quinn.
Edit: Given the horrific punishment that Tywin inflicted on Tysha, I don't think Tywin would assume that any child Tysha might have had after her marriage to Tyrion was annulled was of Lannister blood.
The mere possibility of Tysha claiming any child *might* be a Lannister is what Tywin would need to prevent.
@@Pipe42 No, I don't think a smallfolk would have any leverage once the marriage is wiped away.
@@Pipe42 why wouldn't Tywin just kill her, she isn't part of a noble family that is friendly to Tywin unlike the Westerling
Tyrion was in charge of drains and sewers of the Rock.
In The Mystery Knight we have a dwarf climb through the privy to get past guards.
And we already have Dany sending forces through a sewer to capture a city.
With so much foreshadowing it would be bizarre if C Rock was not captured using the sewers to infiltrate.
Keeping her close for a potential heir doesn’t make sense after nine months, though. And probably one of the reasons for forcing so many men on her was to further put paternity in question if she did get pregnant, in addition to humiliating her and teaching Tyrion a lesson.
That was definitely one of the reasons behind his torture of Tysha - as to why keep her around, I think even removed from the possibility of an heir he wouldn’t want the story of Tyrion’s marriage getting out, so he’d likely just continue with it.
@@QuinnTheGM The story is already out. His family brings it up in conversation, I believe it's been mentioned in Small Council meetings, the Faith know about it, and all those guards. I'd say instead that Tywin wanted it to be public to deter any more smallfolk from trying such a course of action.
Gotta say, love your content. It both makes me even more excited for winds, yet also makes the wait more bearable. Thanks!!
14:00 I've just now realised that the Westerlands look like Big Chungus
I remember reading of an old house sigil having a chest full of silver coins and one gold coin. Knowing Tywin method of punishment to other houses, it seems Tysha belongs to a noble family
I really like this theory and you've clearly put a lot of thought into it, but I do have one problem with it. If Tywin was really that concerned about the possibility of Tysha bearing Tyrion's child, Why wouldn't he just have her killed? It's not like he'd spare a second thought for the life of a commoner.
Also 0:58 I don't think it's mentioned anywhere that Tywin himself directly participated in the rape itself and considering how much he projects the (false) image of being above sleeping with prostitutes it would be incredibly out of character for him to do so.
Correct, the text says nothing about Tywin himself participating.
This is so brilliant!
Can’t believe that after all this years people still manage to craft convincing theories.
Not a chance man, sorry.
If Tywin were so worried about her being pregnant with Tyrion's heir why would he take her himself as well? Thus potentially creating his own heir??
Jeyne Westerling is NOT a fair comparison. Jeyne is not only Highborn but, is daughter to one of the Lannister's Bannermen. If they were worried about a serving girl's baby they would've just had her killed. It's not like Tywin is shy about things like that...
As someone who hasn't actually read ASOIAF, or watched GOT, hearing "And there's only one person Tywin Lannister would trust with such detrimental information... His brother, Kevin" threw me for a loop
It would be fitting for Martin's style and thinking if the end of A Song of Ice and Fire see bastards and children from mesalliances in most major seats. Gendry, Sweetrobin, a child of Tyrion and Tysha, Jon, Aegon and the Sand Snakes. If he decides that "the bastards shall inherit the earth", he would have enough pieces in play to make it happen.
Doesn’t make sense that Tywin would care about a possible child… he literally “gave her to his guards” as a way to refute any child being a Lannister.
Tysha's baby, if indeed, there was a baby, would need to look exquisitely Lannister-like for Tywin to have had any pity on the child. Tywin directed that Tysha be gang-r-worded by his guard. There's no westerosi "23andme" to confirm Tyrion as the father of any baby Tysha bears. BUT, if Tysha's baby comes out green eyed and golden of hair, I could see Tywin reacting like Roose Bolton did when Roose saw Ramsay's eyes.
Tywin’s orchestration of Tysha’s gang🍇 was specifically so that any child she bore could never truly be a valid claimant because even with green eyes and blonde hair, unless the child literally had dwarfism and heterochromia, no one would ever believe it was Tyrion’s
@@emilybarclay8831 I think we're trying to answer different questions. You are trying to answer what other people would expect Tyrion's child to look like. I'm trying to answer what it would take for Tywin to pity the child.
"I went to Lys with Lord Tywin once when he was hand to King Aerys" - Unnamed Lannister guard to Raff, Mercy, TWOW. Not like Lys is known for its active sex trade or anything.
All Tywin would need to do is keep her around for 9 months and now that there’s no child he could get rid of her. I could see Tywin charging Kevan to just get rid of her and Kevin takes pity on her and keeps her in his household under the nose of both Tywin and Tyrion
Maybe a minor plot, but you developed a very detailed theory. Congrats 🎉🎊
Pretty interesting. But one fatal flaw is why wouldnt Tywin just kill her. Why go through all that trouble of monitoring her.
He didn’t kill his father’s mistress either - seems like some psychological thing for him, likely why he got with Shae in the main series.
@@QuinnTheGM The intent was to publicly humiliate the mistress. After that, he didn't care what happened to her. Nor would it matter if the mistress turned up saying she was pregnant, since she had never been married and thus the child would be a bastard.
This was a fantastic video, i think your best so far!
Another Gem! Thanks! 👍😉 Quinn!!
Also Thein didn’t pusnish his dads Mistress because she got roamnticcaly involved with Tyros, he punished her for overstepping her boundaries by presuming the lordship and rule of the castle while also invading the belongings of Tywin’s mother
u figured it out and now grrm is gonna have to restart winds of winter
Underrated comment, plays on my fear that GRRM is obsessed with disproving all fan theories.
@ if he didnt give people so much time to study the books this wouldnt happen 😭😭🙏
@@quinnzel316 It's a vicious cycle.
GRrM hates his fans and has lost his passion for the story that he began 40 years ago and has written 5 books for.
My God, another ten years without a new entry in the series and we'll start discussing the epistemological positions on ontology of all the cultures of Westeros and Essos.
Honestly, love the dramatic tone in this video
No idea where Tysha is but I think it’s entirely possible that Penny is Tysha and Tyrion’s daughter.
This could also have dark implications depending on what Tyrion’s treatment will be towards Penny.
I have a strong suspicion of that too
This is the Asoiaf equivalent of being suspicious of birds and I'm all ears for it
I have believed that Podrick is very important because Kevin saved his life.
What if Podrick is Tyrion’s son and that’s why Kevin put them together?
At first I wasn't buying it but you convinced me that it's possible. Good work keep the interesting videos coming!
Starting the ASOIAF Theories playlist lessss gooo
We all know.
Tysha is Sir Pounce.
Why is anyone even wondering who she is.
"It is known"
Keeping her right under Tyrion's nose the whole time would be devious as hell
Amazing video! I think you are right and I also think that Tywin loved Tyrion. I think putting Tyrion in charge of the sewers gave him control and knowledge of 95% of the Rock. I think Bronn was Tywin’s agent when he joined Cat’s party at the Inn at the Crossroads to protect Tyrion. And also when he selected Shae from Tywin’s camp
The biggest hole in the theory of Tysha being pregnant with Tyrion’s child is that she was raped by dozens of Lannister soldiers too
Tysha could've been pregnant during that time. I think Tyrion was married to her for a while before that happened.
“You will find out in later books”
“No I don’t think I will”
Thanks GM you’re doing -gods- grrms work
Anyone: Gets a theory right
GRRM: frantic re-writing
Robb's wife Jeyne was in a completely different situation than Tysha. Jeyne's marriage was never annulled, and Tyrion didn't have political supporters like Robb who would be likely to rally around such an heir. Jeyne also only had to be secluded & watched for long enough to ensure she didn't have a child, that time period passed years ago for Tysha. There would no longer be any need to hang onto her, even under your theory.
Really, the notion that Tywin is fixated on the inheritance of Casterly Rock is at odds with his actual behavior. Jaime was the in the Kingsguard for years, disqualifying him from inheriting, even while Tywin insisted he was heir. What was Tywin doing about Jaime's vows prohibiting such an inheritance? NOTHING! He only tries to remove Jaime from the KG after Barristan's dismissal has set a precedent and Jaime's loss of a hand creates an excuse for why he can't do his job.
You have a very different notion of what constitutes a "smoking gun" than I do. There are lots of characters mentioned together in a single paragraph, that's not enough to indicate they've ever had anything to do with each other.
Tysha is currently knocking at Peter Griffin's door in a Family Guy side gag