Don't Let The Flat Range Ruin Your Rifle Setup
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Don't Let The Flat Range Ruin Your Rifle Setup
Have you or someone you know been spending too much time on the flat range? Does your rifle setup reflect that bias of speed and distance?
One mistake many of us suffer from when it comes to our rifle setups is configuring the gun for the flat range. When you get a red dot sight on a short system with quick splits and easy rounds on target, it feels like that's what you want and need. But then you go outside.
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Dude... as a marine vet i can tell you right now we used 4x acogs and using a 3x magnifier with a red dot is perfect for your area... if your shooting at enemies past 400m your wrong... you should be breaking contact at that distance... no one is going to break cover to shoot at you from 500m unless they know 100% that they have you dead to rights and in that case it doesnt matter what optic you have...
Semper Fi bro. Spot on advice.
Trench grenade is wrong about lpvos
Why would you be breaking contact when you are defending your home?
@@FranklinGray I don't think you understand the context of what he's implying. He's not suggesting stopping engagement altogether if you are protecting your home. He is suggesting that you are ineffective and inefficient attempting to engage beyond 300 to 400 meters. I agree, at those distances protecting your home you are responsible for every round and successfully hitting adversaries with the ability to move and NOT hit your neighbor or other innocent person is a high consideration. However, I can tell you his context was drawing from his military background, in that engagement beyond 400 meters with M-16/M-4/AR-15 while possible is not actually ideal. And, we all know, bad actors trying to move across your property and break into your house will close the gap for you to better effective engagement ranges. At the end of the day everything is situational and you'll have to make that call yourself if you ever have to.
Knowing you can do it is your best friend. Distance is your friend. You don’t know what will happen but having the skills to do so is a force multiplier.
Still solid advice though just depends on logistics of everyone else’s situation.
I think about it like this, SBRs with red dots for urban and night time use, 16" GPR with 5x prisim and piggy back red dot for more open areas during daytime or long duration, and for SPR I use .308 in a Savage MSR-10 Hunter model with a 16" barrel with a 4-18 power scope
Yep, but some others will not have the luxury of various set-ups and need to go with a GPR.
20" all the way.... and everyone will want a Magic Sabre....🤣🤣
I’m super excited to hear your review of the PSA Saber
Good call! Brass fax did something like this same idea. About 2 years ago (city) I think the vid is called why you need a magnifier on your rifle. 🤙🏻
He's a wise guy. Not in an ironic way either.
@@MagicPrepper 😂
I'm liking these reality check videos.
Longer barrel for distance and more accuracy. With your place I would not build anymore AR-15. You need an AR-10 .308 or 338 Lapua
Already have that position filled 😉
I'm confused why my comment in this thread got deleted when others didn't. Does you tube delete them?
Magic. Definitely would be interested in you trying out some “budget” stuff. PSA would be great. Most of us are in the budget to mid range when it comes to this stuff. We want reliable gear but we don’t want to dump our kids college fund into it.
Ansolutely Love that MCX set up Magic. Great paint job too!
I constantly run into this philosophy in the desert
Personally I went with the 16" Giessele rail set up from PSA just because it had a pinned & welded (aslo Giessele) gas block for 100 more bones.
Some good food for thought. Not everyone has the money to blow, and I'm probably into guns more than I am into prepping (though I practice both), so I have three guns lined up for my rural situation. A Sig Canebrake is setup almost identically to MP's MCX for in the house to just around the outside of the house, maybe 50 yards. Next to it is a PWS MK111 as my sort of all-around rifle with an Eotech XPS3, then next to that is a PWS MK116 with an LPVO as my longer range rifle, given that "range" for me is between 300-400 yards before my view is blocked by trees or hills. I do have to agree with recon1986 though, that 400 yardish ranges are "break or do not contact" ranges for me.
An additional consideration regarding the "flat range" is also shooting rested on the flat range. Besides getting outside the 25 yard zone, you need to elevate your heart rate. I have a 100 yard range on my place and I run the CSAT 100-7 drill at least weekly. I can tell you that it is MUCH harder to be accurate with a 150 heart rate than with a 60 heart rate. In fact on that drill, I have found that I am much more accurate prone at 100 than kneeling at 75 when my heart rate is up. Especially when shooting for time.
Some good advice Mr Magic
For a home land where you can see over a mile I’d deff choose the 20” Wylde with a long range scope and a secondary red dot and for sure a bipod
That’s kinda what I remember North Dakota looked like. I grew up in the Bismarck Mandan area. College in grand forks and worked in Dickinson/Williston for a decade or two. We used to stand on the tailgate of the pickup and we could see at least 10 miles or at least where the next town popped up out of the prairie.
I’m in rural Kansas and it’s literally flat and pretty much wide open. I can count the miles just by counting tree rows/ shelter belts. I had a thought process of a short barreled upper once, and it was VERY short lived. I don’t and won’t own a barrel shorter than 16”. Short barrel rifles are pointless to me in my area. Then consider for decades military did CQB missions with 16”+ rifles. 1. I have an astigmatism and can’t run a red dot even if I wanted to. My minimum optic is a 3x prism scope that I regularly train doing CQB with and improve each time.
I believe people watch to many movies and play to many video games thinking they are going to be like Rambo kicking in doors and clearing buildings like in the military with a massive logistics system backing them. Granted there may be some scenarios were that comes into play, but that’s like fighting off an invading force like another country, terrorist cells or cartels. Most scenarios will consist of total collapse where its people on their own and not a common enemy. Honestly even if I was in an urban high populated area I wouldn’t be looking to going out on missions kicking down doors, clearing buildings and basically looking for a fire fight.
My Suggestion, and what I plan to do. Instead of buying a complete rifle or complete upper, gather parts and put one together yourself. I purchased an Adams Arms stripped upper and had it checked and it’s within specs. I also attached it to all my lowers and it fits them all well. My plan is to buy a 20” Criterion barrel, a good bolt carrier group and just throw it on an existing lower until I get a lower built. Arken ep-5-25x56 scope with mil/vpr reticle. This will allow me to be able to utilize the full potential out of 556, which I need for my location. If I get my eyes fixed I might add a red dot on top of the scope.. Don’t get me wrong, I do have a AR10 in 308 with a scope for longer shots, but I have a lot more 556 rounds than I do 308. Eventually I plan to build a 308 long range bolt gun as well..
From what I can tell Criterion is touted as making some of the best AR15 barrels. And they aren’t that much more expensive than like a Ballistic advantage barrel (although you can often get ballistic advantage barrels on sale)..
Seriously. If you still have the Aero precision or the Ruger just swap a Criterion 20” barrel, like a BCM bolt carrier group, Sprinco buffer spring and a CMMG Zeroed lower parts kit in it and call it a day.
Side note.. I realize you are looking for budget options to share on the channel to help people. However, although showing people how to assemble parts on UA-cam is a no no you can still walk people through the steps you took to work through any issues you may have by assembling a rifle from parts you gathered. Although I don’t advocate for people to assemble their first rifle from parts, I do advocate people know how to work on their firearms and work through problems. Even the top tier firearms can and will go down. No better way to learn your rifle and potentially learn problem solving than assembling your own. You are a smart guy with a platform that have no doubt can work through the issues that may arise. That’s valuable information as well
North central Kansas here.
@@trasvarvare Southwest here.
I wouldn’t recommend anything arken makes. Everything else seems solid tho
South Texas hunter here, have 11k acre ranch to play on and kill a lot of shit and recently taken some classes from Bruiser Industries and opened my eyes to long range and rapid target engagement. Look him up, you’re welcome.
To add to your line of thinking, this is what I’ve found works for me for 556 out to 1243 yards on a 10”x10” target so far.
You make your money on a barrel and glass.
18” criterion (centurion and bartlein would be the others i recommend)
Semi monolithic upper
Mil/mil scope with a Christmas Tree reticle ( NF mil-xt, vortex EBR7C)
Good trigger
Good bipod
Rear bag
Tripod highly recommended
Get quality training
Suppressor is a crucial tool
My current main squeeze:
semi monolithic Seekins upper
18” criterion
77g Imi razor core
Altas bipod
Pint size game changer
Microbest chrome bolt (they make BCMs and SOLGW bolts)
CMC trigger
Arisaka bag rider added to the stock
Nightforce ATACR 4-16 w mil-xt
12:00 rmr
Badger 1.54 mount
Applied Ballistics app
SA adjustable gb
Springco spring w h3 buffer
KGM r556 suppressor
The gun mows shit the fuck down and doesn’t move. For example, predictive doubles on an 8” plate at 400 off barricades w .2 splits is normal work for the gun.
With speed drop, quick wind and trued data in the AB app.. and the 12:00 rds you become highly proficient from 0 to 1200+ yards with a 556.
@@mrpatriot76 I want to try an Arken, seen several good reviews. Worse case scenario I have a 10/22 I can throw it on.. lol
💯% Get a Sabre Magic. I bet you’re gonna love it. I certainly do. Mine’s a 20” .308
A Desert Tech WLVRN in my opinion is the ideal firearm platform, with a conversion kit, in either 308 or 5.56 depending on, which completed platform you purchase it as. however a PSA Sabre is not a bad choice either but you cannot quickly convert to a smaller or larger caliber if needed plus you have the added benefit of full lenthe barrels in a short package like the DT WLVRN
Great topic. I would however not use a lpvo. A proper scope with parallax adjustment capability will work much better. I can recommend the sig 556 dmr for longer range, but that’s bit heavy… The CMMG MK3 is a got choice in .308
14.5" pinned & welded FN CHF barrel rocks it
PSA PSA PSA
Try to saber with the 16 cold hammer forge
Run a 16' AR with a 1-6x LPVO and 45 degree pistol red dot for training/competition so it can be a great platform.
Yes, this is the reason i built a 20" heavy barrel ar15.
I would be interested in learning more on your Ruger woes and even possibly doing some colaboration to find solutions and get a viable outcome this video is great to reinforce the fact terrain will dictate tools and implementation
IWI Zion SPR might be a good route to explore too
Thanks MP
Anytime!
Speaking of the SPR setup, it seems that a 4X magnification scope such as a 4-16 or 6-24 would be ideal to use. I suspect that a multiplier of 4X would be easy to produce and provide you will great optical quality at a very reasonable price. In regards to using a 16, 18, or 20 inch barrel it would be interesting to see if a shorter barrel with better ammo would be superior to a longer stainless barrel with regular ammo.
If going with 20 inch for the spr, I feel like m193 isn't the best choice. Sure it has great performance from short to medium ranges, but if you're wanting to stretch it out, go heavier
Scrap the M193 and go with M855a1 (barriers) or the 77g Black Hills (all ranges with no barrier). The 77g is really good for me and my 18' PSA stainless. All that said, I'll stick with 308 for anything outside the house...even in the house these days...
I run a 18 inch CHF PSA rifle and it shoots .90 inch groups with everglades 55 grain version 2 bullets
Yeah M193 sucks at any distance past 200 yards in most guns. Velocity plummets quick. 77 grain ftw 👍
The wylde chamber is great for different loads. I am slowly shifting from m193 to 62 grains and more as that will be the prominent surplus. Thing is I still have tons of 55 gr even with 4 to 6 practical matches and practice for them.
Sucks that you have had such a rough experience building a .300 blk. My Ballistic Advantage Hanson upper with a m4e1 lower has been great after a short break-in with the 110gr. Maybe 100 rounds? At first it couldnt fully chamber the 125gr and 150gr after a few shots (the only ammo i had at the time)
Great advice here man. This channel is a goldmine and I love the discussions like this. We al need to put a little thought processing into the things we are doing sometimes.
Get the Sabre
IWI 18” Zion Z15 SPR. Budget quality. It’s a shooter.
I dont care what anyone says. Your war/combat rifle should be a 16" AR15 chambered in 5.56NATO with back up irons and some kind of optic with zoom... i use a red dot and 3x magnifier on mine but an acog or LPVO 1-6 would work also...
I have a AR 15 with a 18 inch barrel using a leopold vxr firedot patrol scope with 3-9x40 magnification which i love to shoot but lately I have been practicing using a 16 inch ar 15 with carry handle sights like what i had in the army and its fun lol
My AK is apparently a red dot killer. Two different dots up and quit on me within a few hundred rounds. The latest was a romeo5, a cheap optic but had great reviews from every source I found. I decided screw it, no more cheap optics. Next dot is gonna be no less than $500, and a magnifier will be with it. Instead I gave into weakness and bought a cheap prism optic, because of the etched reticle. The 3x fixed magnification has been making me feel sick to my stomach because i lost the ability to do what a dot lets you do. This video is helping me cope, thank you 😂 It's a monstrum raven 3x32, if anyone has experience with it and wouldn't mind telling me what I can expect down the road. Already learning target acquisition and shooting with both eyes open is gonna take some training, unlike a dot. I would really rather have a dot and a magnifier, but I don't want to pour money into optics when my gun has already taken out two. I'm hung up on having a dot because if shtf, the situation i fear the most is being caught in a gun fight while out in a vehicle. I'd like to be able to have that dot for quick aiming for those vehicle to vehicle or vehicle to parking lot type distances. Maybe an acog + rmr down the road. But my driveway is very long, and straight, and my yard is more than 100 yards across in every direction. So this vid makes me see a helpful perspective. I only got a prism for the fact of working without batteries. But maybe there is a real pro besides that.
Dude, magic is always keeping me in check.
Might want to look into the accuracy of the Radian rifles. Expensive but it might fill the role you are needing.
I started hunting coyotes with 4x. Inside a year, changed to 4-14x
eh, it might be reasonable to bring back the old Magic Prepper trick of using an AR-10 as an AR-15. keep that .300 blackout handy for around the property, car, etc. and have an AR-10 DMR with a longer range scope for your "backyard" 🤷♂
I can probably set up a 100 yard range in my middle woods and the targets will be near the bottom of a valley in the woods. Can't get much safer than that.
You should look into the IWI 18”SPR rifle. There is a ton of great reviews and at a budget price
Keep in mind the twist rate for the barrel lengths. You want a twist rate designed for the ammo you plan to use. You are in the same area I am when it comes to each firearm having its nitch. I have different length barrels and different twist rates for each. That being said, it's harder to find an SPC that does everything you need. I am slowly coming to the conclusion that a long-range rifle works for most situations except CQB. But I have others designed for those occasions if needed. So you ha e to figure out what the longest distance you think is a good distance to shoot and still be able to hit the target and take the target down.
I say 6.5 grendel for long range uo to 800 and regular 16 in 5.56 for up to 400 yards and a shorter option for closer urban enviroments.
Exactly what I have!
My concern isn’t the distance but how well can you identify things in a tree line 150-200 yards out. I can hit that distance fine with any sighting solution but hostiles aren’t likely to be just out in the open like a flat range. That’s where I’m trying to figure out a workable solution.
Since you are set on the BCM GPR I think it makes more sense to go with a longer range SPR, especially with the .300 blk you just showed covering those CQB ranges. Personally it seems like the 20" is the way to go, but in an AR-10 at .308 or larger. If you are going SPR might as well fill a niche you don't quite yet have and start venturing into longer ranges imo. 5.56 just isn't really going to be worth it when you're going over that 300-600m range when you want consistency, it can be done, but... ya know...
I’m capable of 500 yards and in repeatable hits need to get a spotter scope to see my hold at further distances
You need a Forward Controls Design FDE dust cover for your BCM. For Your SBR go Geissele Super Duty.
I just watched an older video where you stated the superiority of 7.62 NATO vs. 5.56. Why don't you build an AR10 to fill this requirement?
IIRC Nothing was wrong with your Ruger MPR Upper itself right? Thats an 18" Cold Hammer Forged 5R 1/8 twist Barrel - Just throw it on another Lower.
2:49 I’d love to have the horizon in my view from home like that but I live in San Diego
I’m gonna tell you this. I’m a shft situation there probably be more people shooting from a distance just to not engage in short range combat. That will happen once the threats have if not been mostly neutralized. Helpful tip you ain’t gotta be a top tier sniper to do so.
Aero precision “not really work out?” I have 3 and they’ve all worked out. What happened
Gas port was undersized. Not enough gas for the system to function properly. The real let down was the customer service interaction. I could have fixed it myself but that shouldn't have been a necessity.
Im a bcm and colt guy ( perfect combo of price and proven). 16 in barrel ftw. I am florida man so we dont have those long views, shorter barrels would work but 16 or 20 inch to get that velocity.
And i figure you have a 50/50 chance against a guy with a nightforce. Most people dont practice.
Do yourself a favour and make a range card for your location. You can use an OS map to identify features, distance and bearing. That way, you will be able to quickly and effectively dial in and engage the target. It will also help you to coordinate with team members.
Also, take the time to identify dead ground, choke points and obstacles. This information will give you a significant advantage in an engagement and defence.
Personally, I like my LAR-8 mounting a cheap scope with a holographic site on top of it. The scope and site hold it's zero even with 1,200 rounds of 308 on a 16inch barrel. The scope is zero at 100 yards and the site is zero at 25 yards. At 15 yards the hit is 6 inches low and at 50 yards it is 2 inches high. So the site is good for quick shooting at anything less than 75 yards. The scope is for long shots that I can take my time with and hit 1 MOA. 200 yards is 2 MOA clicks, 300 is 6 MOA, 400 is 10 MOA and 500 yards if 14 MOA. Doubt I would be shooting at anything longer than 500. My cheap scope is 4 - 16X....plenty good for the mountains.
BTW: liked it so much I put the same scope on my wife's AR-15 and same zeros.
Sharpening my skills by competing in rimfire competition at a local range. So far two weeks in and I’m looking like I need more practice.😢
What happened to the aero? I’ve been using their m5 for a while and it’s been great. But of course I built it with great parts
Thank you Magic !!!
Man the accuracy issue with the aero id just buy a Faxon barrel and call it a day. Ive got a killer M4E1 with a Faxon 20in barrel i built out. I know newbies wont be building 1 out but a complete lower, upper, hand guard, barrel and send it to a local gun smith isn't a big deal. Faxon has a 416 stainless that's nitride treated, it has accuracy and will last. I know there was an issue with aero customer service, idk what exactly happened bcuz I wasn't there.... and it's no excuse but idk of q single company that does high number sales whose customer service makes me happy
That’s my vote. Either a Faxon or Criterion 20” with a good BCG and Sprinco buffer spring and you’re good to go..
I don’t advocate for people buying parts and assembling their first rifle. However, for prepping it makes sense for people to know how to work on their rifle and problem solve if issues arise. No better way to get experience and learn than assembling 2nd or 3rd and beyond from individual parts. Some of the best shooting rifles I’ve shot were assembled with money spent on parts that actually make the rifle assembled on parts that really don’t make a difference on accuracy and dependability. Granted not going to win a beauty contest.. lol. He can literally add an adjustable gas block and buffer to it and tune it himself for suppressed and un suppressed if need be
another point. people should try to get out and train outside of the flat range. go to the woods, mountains desert.. should long and close, all different positions, etc. sitting a bench shooting a paper target at a single known distance is nothing like shooting in a real situation.
Sucks your MPR didn't work out. Some apples go sushi
Im old , scope what your area need is and has !
You might as well go with the 20" as you have the short barrels covered.
@Magic Prepper - Dude the stupid bots have been dropped on your channel. I will report all that I see.
Please do
How do you know bots have been dropped? And what is the point? Tech deficient here.
@@jeremykeckler3267 Bot accounts with Onlyfans like profile pics spamming messages unrelated to the video topic and content.
Looks like high tension power line way out there
The 20 inch will meet your needs just fine in your area
I live in the suburbs and have never owned an sbr, I just do not see the point in going through all that extra paper work to be able to shoot less far in the grander scheme of things sure it's a low probability I'll have to engage at 200 meters but if I do a standard barrel is both cheaper and more likely to get the job done.
I wish the Sabre came in an 18" barrel
It does but only as a $1500 MK12 clone. And... yea
Ballistic Advantage 20” DMR ???
How many criminals have you seen running around with nightforce optics on their KAC’s or LMT’s?
Adam’s arms P2 .308. 1400$
Took a 16” to 900. Easy day.
Yes get a Sabre! 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
Noted
Get another BCM.
Sabre would be a great one to review I've had my eye on it for quite some time
Right on man
What kind of illuminator do you use on the 300 BLK Sig?
It has a Surefire vampire light and a Steiner DBAL D²
20 inch Wylde
20 inches as Mr Stoner intended
lol I just showed a friend this the other day and showed him how bad he needs at least a magnifier, even at 100 yards can get a much tighter group. Would be bad if your opponent did and you didn’t
20", but the stainless steel barrel is gross.
No BLA BOSS intended. How about harbor freight security. Cuz they have it. And some rocks. 16$ can tell you in the house something is?
That was an awesome outro
Flat and see forever....
Exactly why short barrel AR'S or AK'S not good... Urban or thick forests OK but in Kansas... lol
Good afternoon, thanks for sharing YAH bless !
Yes do a Sabre review. Been looking to upgrade.
Noted
If not your first rifle you should really try buying parts and assembling your own.. Nothing against PSA, you can literally build a really good rifle off a PSA lower and a stripped PSA upper. Knowing how to work on a rifle as well as work through issues is extremely important in prepping. Even top tier firearms will fail when you need them the most. And if that’s during SHTF there will be no company to ship it to or no warranty..
No cotton mouth. You sound fine sir.
20
Yeah check out the SABER
Acog
My back yard is about the size of your dirt backstop, unfortunately living in town.
Get a sabre 100%
Hes a bad person if hes planning to blast people from 500 + yds away hes the raider aggressor prepper
Silly assumption based on biased context. With the same logic, every military or police sniper is a bad person apparently. And that's not a "plan". It's a capability. Take a bath.
Your AO looks like Ukraine....a battle rifle would be the freedom stick I'd choose.
Comment for the algo.
Magic why are you flagging yourself in the thumbnail? :P
Bad habits 😆
Question, Magic. I have a wife that is completely supportive of defense tools and prepping. Curious if you, or many of your subscribers get a lot of resistance to it? As wives are concerned.
My wife was totally against buying guns and ammo and well, just about anything. She is Tongan and grew up where every single dime was put to use to feed, clothes, and shelter so I understand where she is coming from. With that said, I took her to the range to learn how to shoot her new AR-15. It was real hard to get her to shoot it, but once she did and saw how easy it was, she started having fun. On the way home she asked me to buy more ammo. Moral of the story: get her into it.
@@FranklinGray Awesome 👍
I know a guy that could get you hooked up I think.
From PSA
Home defense shotgun would be far superior. But, I guess you have to have a fully kitted out gun for every conceivable Mad Max fantasy instead.
Fake news
@magicprepper haters gonna hate
@@assurancearms6271 Not a hater. Just able to laugh at his compulsion to buy guns that don't make any sense--just be cause he can.
@@litsci4690your compulsion to equip yourself with a firearm that has the most inferior ammo capacity is beyond me. Branch out. There are many more capable options out there.
@@bmrz38 Tavor TS12. 16 rounds. Get a fucking clue. How many 12 gauge rounds does it take to put you in the ground?
A more usless video, I cannot find.
Ah yes, the Frizzler 🪄 🏫 🚎