Drakengard SUCKS... But It's Genius (NieR Series)
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- Опубліковано 9 бер 2024
- Always wanted to play Drakengard, but never did for some reason. I wanted to correct this because I'm such a fan of the NieR series, which spawned out of Drakengard. I CERTAINLY did not get what I expected, and that was both a good thing and a bad thing.
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#drakengard #nier #nierautomata - Ігри
yoko taro created drakengard with the idea that if someone was to murder another, that person must be a psychopath and thats why he gave you caim and the party members. whilst reflecting on 9/11 he came to the realization that anyone can kill another person if they think they are in the right. and thats how nier was born
Nothing more evil than a good person.
And then by the time DoD3 came out he had developed his thought from "you need to be a psychopath" to simply "you need to believe that you're right"
And then there is the whole "murderer's don't deserve a happy ending" thing despite giving 2b and 9s one while Caim and zero got killed off.
@@funaccount7665 the androids arent people
@@funaccount7665 Saying that 2b and 9s had a good ending is a huge reach. Its at best a completely "neutral" ending with nothing but the player's hopes attesting that the previous cycle of tragedy wouldnt continue.
It could just as easily go horribly wrong or even worse than before, people just headcanon the future as good because they want a nice ending for the characters.
So, Max didn't comment on, or perhaps missed, another layer to the endings.
The first ending, ending A, is the most "normal" one.
Your hero commits a great sacrifice and they stop the evil. Happy ending.
The more you play, and the more people you kill, the more you learn about your party and the more story you unlock, leading to other endings.
Which get progressively more tragic and gruesome.
So if you kill few people, it's almost like you see a sanitized version of history, where good guys fought a war against bad guys and won.
If you kill thousands, you see the story is actually about a bunch of psychopaths killing innocents in a nihilistic setting. You see in the world your own bloodlust and cruelty.
Basically "Dishonored" chaos level. I love to play "Dishonored 2" and Daud's first DLC from the first game in high/medium chaos. It just feels like the most realistic approach to a young woman who has all the power in the world and still faced the worst it had to offer, and to a serial killer desperate to do whatever it takes to avoid his death.
I wouldn't call the Empire "innocents". The Empire themselves invited The Watchers in for power. Hell, the practically created The Watcher's vessel with their own hands.
As for them being psychopaths, absolutely. They are all either broken in inherently damaged people. I'd argue the more you kill the more human they all become.
15:05 oh boy oh boy , that scene
14:03 actually i watched that video, it was interesting, i recommend other watch as well(really make you thinking about killing in real life and digital, examples of real life and other stuffs)
9:03 relaxation never was point lol, if anything it is disturbation
well i am glad someone talked about First Drakengard, (well , I am a fan of drakengard 3, and yeah i mean, sure that game sucks too but as you said, on purpose ,...it was somehow weird to love that game, but i say, characters were engaging (except desiples) ...but point is , while i am not so much into drakengard 1, i always found drakengard 3 , a game to look upon, even if it meant for a test, if anyone find to take look at first game, give chance to third game as well...(also got some cool manga and novel too...overal story is much more like nier series than frist drakengard)
@@zilchdelerion4076 Then you just removed all morality from it so saying Caim's actions are objectionable is moot and all the whining about how much he does it is ultimately hollow by anyone that brings it up. "Killing" doesn't even becoming a judgable offense since it is no longer a "choice" that can be "right" or "wrong". Which is counter to the narrative. Every soldier is essentially in a pact with The Watchers. You have to choose to form a pact. They all CHOSE to form a pact with them, even if they lacked all the context. The idea that the enemy army are a bunch of witless people who didn't make a decision flies in the face of the theme of the game itself.
Which is something I disagree with. They all made their decisions. Everyone agreed to what is happening on some level. The only time a character doesn't make a choice in Drakengard is when they are victimized by another humanoid's decision or with violence.
Just as a key, that's why they didn't kill or couldn't do anything with Furiae. They didn't care about Inuart's love for her, they didn't keep her alive for that. They NEEDED to break her, for her to end her pact by her own hand and destroy the seal. She needed to choose, and just like a horrible little human, she made the selfish choice. That's what Drakengard is mostly about.. humans making self interested choices and being forced to deal with the consequences of those choices.
@@zilchdelerion4076, wow, that’s a long-winded way of showing us in the audience that you only read the first few sentences of Exile_Sky’s comment and just ignored the rest for the convenience of your own argument. You completely ignored the points on how pacts in Drakengard/ Neir require *informed* consent of some degree, regardless of circumstance, and you completely ignored the point they made on how the game’s narrative and characters are structured around people’s independent selfish choices and the consequences of those choices.
And before you try to comment back at me trying to debate me on those points I just listed off, i want you to know that I DO NOT CARE. You’re opinions on weather you believe in those points or not are irrelevant to me. I’m only commenting here because I noticed that you essentially hand-waved those key points without actually addressing them in any way and thus I’m going to call you out on it. Because doing crap like that makes you look really bad, the “argue for the sake of arguing” type of bad. So my suggestion is that you fully read the comment you’re replying to so you don’t make yourself look stupid, and think very carefully before replying to it. Or just don’t reply at all if you are incapable of that.
The act of Angelus and Caim fusing their souls is mirrored by 2B and 9S with their black boxes at the beginning. God I love this series
Caim providing the choice of a pact or death mirrors God's proposal to humanity when they contract the WCS
you just eplained why thats my favorite scene in automata god this series is perfect
To get Ending E you need to get all 65 weapons, but you don't have to level them up.
pretty much this. imagine leveling all the weapons and then realizing you don't need that
@@flippypwnage2789 Mate, I would level up all weapons if that makes the final battle in Chapter 13 easier. I would do it.
@@MaxiePlaysRPGs I still have not beaten this boss. I just watched the ending on YT. I was close, though. Some day I'll revisit, but now I want to get through Drakengard 3 and NIER: Replicant.
@@MaxiePlaysRPGs I don't know, I haven't started Drakengard 3 yet. I'm pretty much new to this. I completed NIER Automata last year, including all endings and deletion of save data, etc. Then I decided to start with the Drakengard series and then I have NIER Replicant ready to go. I "finished" Drakengard 1, decided not to play 2, but watch it instead for the sake of the story and then I'll start Drakengard 3.
I thought so bc as max derrat I mostly used only the starter sword the entire game up to the mindf0ckery of ending E
Yoko Taro did what Toby Fox would repeat later on, making Genocide a boring monotonous task...
Funfact, Toby Fox is confirmed to be a big fan of Yoko Taro.
"The only winning move is not to play at all." - WarGames 1983
_WOULDN'T YOU PREFER A NICE GAME OF CHESS?_
The cold war was about ulta nationallism,not capitalism or communism,
the more evil and control they want,
the more propaganda they make.
they would each kill earth if they didnt get to control every1 on it.
Ultra nationalism is trying to control other countries because you think your country is the best.
This is just about the cold war basically.
u.s. and russia trying to control countries useing people leading both groups in the country.
"Wise men choose death before war. Wiser men choose not to be born."
-Angelus
Yoko Taro embodies the idea of hiding good ideas under strange and misdirecting visage. That was always my favorite part about video games and anime, when you sift through it and find something smart.
Caim is a tragic character, vengeance keeps him going. Without his words, his actions speak louder.
not really, vengeance is just a excuse, he keeps going because he likes killing as confirmed by the dod1 guidebook
@@aegrajagin his defense, the messed up state of the world took his family and kingdom away, which were pointed out to be his life's best years, and for good reason. Is it any wonder he hates it all in general ?
Plus, in ending B, he actually stops liking killing. That's why the ending is called "Flowers for the [B]roken Spirit". Furiae is the flowers. He's the broken spirit.
He killed her in angel form because, like Angelus comments, he wanted to give her peace. But when he saw more clones rising, he exhibited a complete lack of enthusiasm and never released Furiae's body as the clones rose in front of him as if they were his army to command. Because he realizes killing her at that point will be meaningless. He needs a reason to keep killing. If the act becomes meaningless for him, he'll give up entirely.
@@aegrajag And that's the consequence of his tragic past back in Caerleon, what's the not really point then?
@@aegrajag very true, a means to justify his ends.
@@JabamiLaindoesn't help his situation is very messed up, he's allied to a dragon and is stuck with a child, a priest, a cannibal and blind man with a secret and in different routes he finds out his own sister romantically loves him over Inuart.
5:03 The music of Berserk 97 fits amazingly well with Drakengard.
bro it really does. the tone is similar.
Indeed, I missed it at first
Well, it seems like the game was heavily inspired by Berserk.
The bother and sister lovers angle is the LEAST freaky thing about the stoey.
Caim does not reciprocate his sister's feelings. It's why she chose suicide.
West game dev could've never 💀💀💀
@@norasyikinali6283 Wouldn't that notion only be represented in the what if ending c? I see ending c as a what if Caim was there to know about his sister's feelings for him, but regardless or not he was present, it showed how the burden of her duty, the shame, and self-loathing were all the necessary ingredients for Manah to push her to her suicide and break the seal. Like, in the more "canon" ending, ending A, we only see her dead body when you arrive at the balcony, but we never see what happened.
So, I think ending c fleshes out, in sense, how she could have died. Driven by mad by her already broken psychological state, and during those moments, maybe what finally made her snap, was imagining Caim repulsion.
I think Leonard is one of the most profound and thought provoking character in drakengard/dragon on dragoon.
The reveal of his backstory felt like opening Pandora's box.
The moment you learned his "secret" you instantly begin to judge him.
Every interaction future and previous he has featuring Seere, children and even the child soldiers are suddenly twisted your mind instantly having created this deeply rooted bias against Leonard.
Yet we as the player know he hasn't ever done anything let alone act on those impulses.
He hates that he has these thoughts and he understands that they're wrong.
Yet it's like something in him was wired wrong and these strange and freakish desires that populate his mind refuse to go away.
We see first hand and through out the story the self loathing he feels how he punishes himself for feeling that way.
What truly seals the deal for me is that Leonard is a truly kind, genuine and sincere man.
That time of not knowing and building that bond is everything.
It makes you question so much once you learn.
Should we simply hate him? With the death of his family was he punished? Has he suffered enough? Will he ever suffer enough? Does he deserve to suffer? Is it really okay to turn our back on him?
We as people who have never had those thoughts could we ever truly understand the inner turmoil Leonard lives with?
There's no definitive answer and its truly one of those situations where we as the player are forced to think on our own and create our own opinion.
Leonard is fine compared to Arioch
Arioch is boring because shes just wacky edgy crazy almost no depth.
@@nantohoohkenI've been hearing that a lot, so I decided to try and develop her a little more in my fanfic saga. First we see her degradation through out the years, and when we finally reach the Arioch we know, I base her more after her "1.3" version, in which she's still evil, but can think things more thoroughly.
What do you mean "no depth"? Her whole family was taken from her and cruelly murdered. Her womb was taken from her because she was pressured to make a pact with the spirits. OF COURSE she would completely lose her mind after that. She's not "edgy" at all. In fact, I feel more sympathy for her than all Drakengard's characters combined. @@nantohoohken
its one thing we all lost with yokotarou going mainstream, look at how many heavy topics this game talk about and in such a different way. Think about what you're talking about, what Leonard feels, and see if any other game has something like that
Drakengard is something else man
Fun fact about ending A is that not only Caim's relationship with the dragon is one of mutual respect now, it's canonically romantic as well 😃
ah yes, the OTP of the DrakenNieR universe lol
Is that canon? I only played 1 (stopped playing console after PS2 so), and one of the weird choice US made was making the dragon an old lady type voice. In Japanese version, the dragon clearly is a male. So I highly doubt it's canonically "romantic".
@@andrewyp6724Not necessarily male, I believe the dragons in the series are sexless, with their gender being defined by their personality. Also in Japan, Angel (Angelus is the localized name) is also played by a woman. Regardless of the gender of either of the fictional characters, in Branch A into Drakengard 2, it's clear by Caim crying when the seal is put on her that he loves her. Drakengard 2, it's made even clearer.
caim fell for that Dragussy
@@SciontheDark No physical gender still means oral is possible, at least. Sad the dragon can't get any, though.
wait for drakengard 3 the worst best game ever
Agreed best worst game in the series lol
When I heard about the sudden rhythm game at the end I couldn't believe it 🤯
@@GraveReaperCushions Not surprising at all if you made ending E in OG Drakengard.
It's more like an old friend warmly taunting you over some old embarrassing incident.
What about Drakengard 2?
Eh if you play on emulator at 60fps the combat is actually less boring than Automata’s, since you can parry and need to think to dodge
21:57 Glory to Sexy Robotkind
lol, right? "hurray for sexy robots" _is_ a rather compelling point
Bear in mind: back when this was released, there was no Nier Automata or Nier Replicant/Gestalt. The main reason for players to try and get the multiple endings was to try and get a better ending than Ending A. But since the game punished all the killing the player engaged in, Endings B through E instead went progressively more demented and bleak-the opposite of what one would expect from a game with this structure.
16:25 I felt a mental connection to the NPC saying does spilling so much blood AMUSE YOU SO. pattern to MUSUO, interesting in my mind
"It sucks but it's good" is a feeling I have very much seen among most fans of the DrakenNier series. It's not fun to play, but that almost feels like the point. You aren't doing good things, it shouldn't feel good to do.
The game doesnt suck people always so dramatic
I didn't care for Nier when it was on 360, but who doesn't like Nier: Automata's gameplay?
12:50 you "only" need to get all weapons but it's not requiered to level them up.
But it does make "some" fight easier plus seeing the new effects numb the tediousness of going through this game "a bit"
@@akaviolaqrif350 The only real reason to upgrade all weapons would be the weapon stories. These are locked behind the weapon lvl. I agree you can upgrade some weapon to make harder battles and challanges easier,but even then it would make no sense to upgrade everything. And i think it's important to be clear,that you don't need to do that for ending E. You would be wasting hundreds of hours in a wrong assumption.
@@Sultansekte true I only ended up using like 5 good weapons
I hope max didn't drain his life to level up all the weapons.. LOL
@@akaviolaqrif350 I used only 2 weapons, LOL! I forgot their names, one was the sword that makes you invisible and the other was the red sword (when it levels up).
I truly loved Angelus. She was such a great character. Her and Kaim's development over the game culminate in Ending A. By far my favorite.
power couple lol
I’ve always remembered a interview about Drakengard 1 where Yoko Taro lamented on how can anyone expect to save the world from the top of a mountian of bodies.
It was my first PS2 game, and set my love for grim dark fantasy, after reading Glen Cooks Black Company.
In "Dishonored 1", middle chaos ending (Callista lives and Samuel doesn't betray you), while it is true the capital still has some plague, earlier in the game, some people claim the rats seem to be dying out. And it makes sense. You don't provide them enough corpses, they starve, so it's only a matter of time until the plague is fully gone. Maybe Sokolov and Piero will even help a little.
So I guess Yoko Taro has a point.
Kind of like what the other guy said. that line of thinking would work if you weren't literally fighting against an enemy bent on the destruction of your world
@@cricker1998 and yet do you save it? These weren’t my words but the directors.
Reading the weapons history and this whole game is depressing, And I love it.
I love reading the weapons stories. So interesting ! Wished some of them were more developed plot wise.
@@JabamiLainThe Weapon lore was what drove my teenage self to keep grinding and leveling up those weapons. The story of the ever-growing blade was one of my favourites, til it grew so big its own wielder couldn't swing it, yet he was found mysteriously killed by his own weapon. Leaving everyone to wonder how that occured. And the story of the pauper lord, whose over-taxed citizens thought he had been hoarding wealth, only to discover him as destitute as themselves.
@@tonts5329in my "DrakeNier" fic series, I try to involve the weapons' a bit more in the plot.
For example, Hymir's Finger (the growing sword) has an effect on Zero's Intoner mode, allowing her to keep it for as long as she likes and growing its power, as long as she keeps killing with it. Oh ! And the sword holds a proeminent presence in "Drakengard 1", being one of Caim's main weapons, needing to grow in power and strength in order to be able to keep wielding it.
And Saintly Brimstone's lore is now that the Intoners infused it with their own magic along with elf magic in order to enslave one of the lords, making the weapon unstable in magical terms, since if it's used on Intoner mode, it's gonna allow the wielder to destabilize the area's song power in various ways, but at the expense of the wielder's health.
I really do feel bad for everyone that played Automata before the original Nier. It really does change the way they all seem to look at the series and the first game and seems like it makes the overall experience lesser than what I felt when I played them in order the first time. I haven't played Drakengard.
You cited the fandom pages a few time. I just wanted to let you know that half the crap on there was completely made up by one guy. We've tried to reason with him many times that the information he's posting is largely inaccurate but he's forever insistance.
Goddammit! I'm really pissed off at the fact that the duo of least reliable source of game info, namely Fandom and Fextralife, always showing on top of Google whenever I search for something! Is there a way to point out the real ones instead of them to make more people know?
hey man, could you give me an example of these made up stuff?
@@Alecs250 most of the ancillary information about the political structure of each faction. Unnecessary emphasis of subhuman racism, especially the elves. Ignore that the Watchers, Gods, and Nameless are separate entities. A lot of this stuff I had personally contributed and I had to give up fighting with this person because they were just too stubborn.
@@DrakeVagabond oh thank you, good thing i always mix and match the places i read.
The elf thing might be something coming from Drakengard 3 but even then it was a footnote.
But wow people really think that God (in japanese its only one), the watchers (angels), and all that are one and the same? lol
Btw i recommend Accord Library if anyone is looking for more drakennier stuff to read
You gotta do Drakengard 2 now, everyone gives that game so much shit but it's pivotal to so much of both Nier and the Drakengard series.
It's SIGNIFICANTLY lighter in overtone but has in my opinion excellently sinister undertones and really fleshes out the world and lore in a way that isn't seen in the other games.
The shades from Nier come from Drakengard 2. Automata has a deep connection with 2 through its explanation of the biomechanical weapons called Dragons.
If you get an opportunity as well, I deeply recommend going through the direct inspiration of these games in Sakura Wars and Panzer Dragoon 1/2/Saga
It's pretty good but the combat is worse because of how much hp they give opponents. Like to get the 3rd ending u have to play 3 times and enemies do a ton of damage and a lot of hp so its annoying.
@@ethosterros9430 the endings aren't worth replaying the whole game for honestly especially not 3 times.
I thought the common consensus about Drakengard 2 was that it was not considered a real entry
@@etherealmako some bullshit that some guy says online shouldn't be taken as gospel, you should play the game for yourself and see.
The primary antagonist is literally a Shadowlord and does the same kind of attack patterns and movement as Nier, makes a pact with the Shades, and the pact mark appears in Nier.
@@Vanity0666 ending 3 is nice since it breaks the mold of how every ending 8n drakengard feels bad workout shoving it in your face. But ur right unless u really love the series and want completion it's not worth. The boss fighter mode is even worse just get 1 shot.
DRAKENIER BRAINROT
I love the nier ending because, of the sick fact that Caim had saved his own world, at the price of an other world and that he couldn't even live to see the hell he brought on this people.
My taste of evil is grim dark.
I don't know want this says about me, but I love it
I wished I could compare your evil taste with mine. But that would spoil my fic.
Caim literally jumps onto an f-16 and blows up all the other jets while riding it like a dragon
He doesn't fucking care about that nonsense
@@Vanity0666 Yah he is like murder is fun
@@Vanity0666 bruh wut
Caim likely wouldn't give a shit as long as his world was safe, and likely wouldn't even care about that since he only cared about protecting his sister who's dead anyway. He only ever really had murder on his mind to begin with.
To quote a well made post:
"Ok, here's what Drakengard is. Drakengard is the idea of having a game set your average, generic fantasy world, however, that generic fantasy world is ending. As in, it's getting fucking destroyed. It's about to get obliterated in its metaphorical and literal ass with the biggest dose of 'fuck you' you've seen in your entire life, there's is not a single thing about that world that isn't about to get beaten until it's a mushy mix of red and brown. Now, in order to convey this premise, EVERYTHING in Drakengard is designed to make the player enter the right mindset.
The soundtrack is experimental, droning, often dissonant, to wear at your mind.
The game-play is frustrating, repetitive, clunky, all to destroy your willpower.
The characters are either insane, murdering assholes, tragic victims of circumstances or straight up cowards, because everything you love and value must die and you must always be disappointed.
And lastly, the protagonist is literally Hitler. He's not 'the tragic hero', he's not the 'anti-hero' and he's not even a edgy try-hard. The protagonist of this game is literally a villain that you get to control. He will squash small children into the mud until they're a fine paste because that's just what he does on a regular basis. He doesn't understand anything that isn't "save my sister" and "murder fucking EVERYONE ELSE". This is because any positive feeling of being a hero and doing good deeds must be exterminated from your very bring and you must not take any form of pleasure whatsoever.
Drakengard is the video game equivalent of being strapped into a chair and having a big burly man smash every bone in your body with a baseball bat, starting from your feet.
The reason why this game has a fanbase is complicated, some people suddenly realize they love being smashed into pieces. There's a certain masochistic pleasure involved.
You say that and yet Caim is never happy to kill. It never satifies him. It doesnt save his sister.
I didn't know that there was a whole darn series made by this Yoko Taro, I only played Nier Automata because I accidentally purchased its OST on Amazon by 1-click pay while scrolling through, I was pissed but then I heard the music and fell in love with the beautiful lyrics and action pieces! Thanks for covering this wacky series Max, stay Yellow!!
Taro has made like 4 series, most of his stuff doesn't get out of japan. He does a LOT of stage plays.
I recommend Thou Shalt Not Die and the manga adaptation of SINoALICE
Bro, that's a crazy way to get into this game, nice
@@WesleyKhalillol I know, didn't even know about the purchase until I saw my bank statement XD
Play replicant, its basically a better drakengard
Drakengard has 3 games its self. Ending A leads to Drakengard 2, Drakengard 3 is a prequel, and ending E originally ment to be a joke leads into the Neir games
A righteous man can flood the world. An evil man is evil in all things.
Makes sense, I suppose.
Caim and Angelus actually fall in love.
Funfact, in a book called "Drakengard 1.3", Angelus turns into a literal angel (not one of the babies though), apparently through her power of her love towards Caim, who dies brutally. And Caim's death causes her to become like him, even as the world ends.
BTW, I don't blame either for falling for the other. Their darkness results from a twisted version of desirable qualities, such as Caim's unrelenting determination and Angelus's wisdom and maturity.
I gave you a like for the reflection because I truly liked it and I agree. However, every review always says that it's monotone that you either press square for attacks, or triangle for a magic "sometimes", and that's not true. Each weapon has its own combos that you have to learn, and you can press triangle at the exact time to connect the magic and weapon attack to create a finishing blow for the corresponding combo. And each weapon has up to 4 finishing blows, one per weapon level. Plus you can switch weapons midplay, so the amount of possible combinations is huge. The camera does suck though.
Fun fact, we and a friend of mine completed the game without knowing ending E was secret. In fact, we didn't know any of the alternate endings were unlockable, we were just so into the game that we completed every spot in the map tons of times just to reach level 99, and eventually the endings just were appearing on their own, even the final one. Caim's and Angelus' levels grow slower than the weapons'.
"Wise men choose death before war, wiser men choose not to be born..."
To put it succinctly, the first Drakengard is perhaps one of the greatest kusoge titles ever made...
I think that it's a bit unfair to call it that, it's far too polished for it to fit into that category.
Drakenguard is a pretty well made game, it's just not a well designed game.
From what I can tell, it was meant to be a flight combat game, then they added the melee combat sections as a means to add story content without it all being done in big expensive cutscenes, or long scenes of characters standing still and talking, and in the end what were intended to be an alternative to having long cutscenes ended up being the most significant proportion of the gameplay.
If you think about the game as a flight game with interactive battle cutscenes (like a precursor to the forced walking sections of later games) it does make a bit more sense, but they definitely overplayed their hand and the game ended up coming across more like a dumbed down Dynasty Warriors with dragons added as gimmick instead of an aerial combat game where you ride a dragon and have a basic combat mini game during certain cutscenes added as a gimmick.
@@casanovafunkenstein5090 the musou part was added because dynasty warriors 2 was suddenly a big hit and square enix wanted a piece of that musou cake
If spec ops is military shooter deconstruct then this is musou deconstruct
So being in junior high in the later 90's, I loved squaresoft games, stuff like Final Fantasy Tactics and Xenogears. I also loved Enix games like Star Ocean The Second Story. I loved dynasty warriors and I loved Panzer Dragoon, when they announced they were merging and making a Dynasty Warriors/Panzer Dragoon style game I was so hyped up. It was the first game I ever pre-ordered, and my first time playing a SquareEnix game. Picked it up opening day right when the store opened. 2 hours later, it became the first and only game I have ever returned. I explained myself to the same guy who I had bought it from and he just said "Hey...you had no idea it was going to suck so bad." and gave me a full refund.
Haha thank you for shedding some more light showing this game still actually has some merit.
Thanks to your video, I have had a moment to reconsider the value of the various endings in a Yoko Taro game. Normally, I gush over how cool something like ending E in Drakengard is because of the connection to other games. But now I see that I really should give more weight to the impact of other endings and what they can mean to myself and others. There is a lot that can be said with an ending, and how you choose to interpret that shouldnt just be taken more or less seriously because one ending is a "true" ending.
When I was 9 my grandmother got me this game cuz the cover looked neat. I don't think I ever recovered.
Seeing Max cover a game from my favorite video game series is a really pleasant surprise. I really hope that you cover Drakengard 3, it's such a well-written game with such an interesting story, too!
ending D was such a life changing experience as a kid, I played this game for years growing up haha
@13:00 honestly I loved reading the weapon stories so much and watching them change, I remember this so fondly and love that they kept it in the games
Such a fitting title. A couple of these games are really hard to sit through on a gameplay level, but my god. What a trip of a story!
People have already posted corrections about how to get the final ending so I won't say that, but I will say this tho. Caim IS the cool caim. But, I also have to say that it seems like you love the idea of Drakengard and not the whole of it. Which is perfectly ok; the game has always been for the weirdest of the weird.
I love this game so much! I've beaten it three times and 100%'d it twice for funsies. There really is something special that I don't get from the nier games, but I can't quite put it into words why exactly I feel that way.
I couldn't agree more. Dragon riding, mute murder hobo Caim is best Caim.
It's pretty wild that I was thinking of Drakan: Order of the Flame while watching you talk about Drakenguard. I couldn't remember the name until you brought up that you also played it back in the day XD.
I remember playing it when I was a teen, the opening music was amazing! The gameplay not so much, but it was interesting, although I didn't understand English too well at that time and most of the story and ideas got surely past over my head.
You unlocked a core memory for me, I used to have a demon disc with Drakan on it and I completely forgot about it until this moment. Also love to see you taking on Drakengard when I was a kid this was one of my favorite games!
This piece of art was really something. I've gushed about it on another person's video in the comments, because it was a big part of my teenage years. I'm surprised you didn't mention the repetitive soundtrack that sounds like it's skipping, only further emulating a sense of madness. Your thumbnail sums the game up how I do to my friends. While it's intentionally designed the way it is, I get it and it's amazing. I prefer an experience over something that is made to be "good because it'll sell", personally. (This was a hell of a game to step into, when I was so addicted to musou games at the time)
I too recently discovered a game which is the most conflicting thing I am obsessed about.
It's RAIN WORLD. Have you played it? I feel you would have a lot to say about it.
The gameplay mechanics are original and unlike anything I've seen, the art style, music, characters are beautiful, and the lore is deep existentialism.
But it is so damn hard and it gives barely any guidance that I had to spoil myself to check if it was even worth getting through it. It definitely is, I wish I hadn't spoiled it for myself, I recommend you try it if you haven't.
It is a great example of videogames as an artform.
Same
slugcat video pleasee!
I played the game recently and I only needed to collect the weapons, I didn't need to lvl them up. I still got ending E.
Always nice to see creators covering Drakengard. The game had a huge impact on me when I was a teenager with its grim dark story and characters, strange world, and progressively crazy and brutal endings. I also think the soundtrack for 1 and 2 are underrated and Growing Wings is still one of my favorite songs in gaming.
How did I not notice the quick reference to the Nevermind album art baby until now?
That's great.
And Ending E is my favorite because it drives the despair, pointlessness, and weirdness up to 11.
All you get for your heroic effort in the last battle is a missile to the face and the ability to ride on top of the fighter jet in a level.
It's perfect.
Max Deret on drakengard
this is looking to be one of my favorite watches already
>relying on shock value
>the one shot of A2 stabbing a robot child
i see what you did there
I just realized you used a song from eternal poison in the video, man I love that game so much. Will you talk about it some day too?
Own all the Drakengard games. I stumbled on them by accident because I love hack and slash games like Dynasty Warriors. It's definitely an inferior version of Dynasty Warriors, but the story and music actually got me hooked. I remember playing Drakengard 2 just to level up all the weapons so I could read the crazy stories associated with them. Good times.
Wise men choose death before war. Wiser men choose not to be born.
That's the classic Evangelion twist, but for videogames. First half makes you think things will go one way, but then they go into this insane direction to the point it seems nothing makes sense anymore at the end
I loved "Evangelion". When I finished watching it, it felt like a weight had been removed from my shoulders.
Also, I'm starting a post-Third Impact fanfic of it involving Marvel mainly, but to a smaller extent "Phantasy Star", "Tekken" and "Star Wars" too.
@@SolidLoachif this is because Misato never bothered to actually help her kids and monopolized her care towards Shinji, I see your point, but you have to remember some adults in real life are just REALLY sucky guardians.
And most teens are indeed foul tempered and even doormats. Asuka and Shinji are actually very realistic in their own way.
@@JabamiLain
While it holds a special place in my heart, I can see why some people hate it.
Evangelion TV series didn't tell the full story. Budget issue, and the main guy (not gonna search and write his full name) couldn't explain the whole concept, world, plot properly, even with more budgeted EoE. Too much catching clouds, flamboyant nonsense really.
I like the manga version because it at least tried to explain more details.
The new movie, hated the fact that Shinji had to do stupid s.. again. But I really liked the ending, the subversion. IMO, ending saved the whole thing.
It still didn't change the flamboyant, not specific, nonsense though.
At least, that's what it is if you tried to look into the plot or details of the series. If you look it in in main guy's intention/message, it makes way more sense and why he made the story that way.
Warning to Japanese youth.
1. Japan's bubble economy popped. I know you're confused living through all this, but you gotta stand up and push through (like a man).
Lyric of the opening: boy, become a myth/the greatness
2. More funny interpretation. Otakus/weebs. Get your a.. up and live like a human being (main guy he himself was one of the otakus btw, before he met his wife).
@@andrewyp6724really ? I think the story was pretty clear. There were two aliens. They came to Earth. One of them was separated into humans. A cult tried to revive the slumbering one. Didn't work, because it created more like him. And now both humans (Lilith angels) and Adam Angels fight each other. Some because they want to reunite and reform what they were, except this time together. Others because they're not aware of the damage they do. And humans are just ignorants.
The cult doesn't want the Angels to unify (they prefer to create their own), because they believe then they can manipulate the newborn beings into taking them to the hive the angels seek to accidentally create and put them on top, instead of letting them lose on the eithr.
As for the "Rebuilds". Never watched them. Never will. And the characters in general were stupid because they were psychologically damaged to not understand the simplest of human social mannerisms, be afraid of it, and every time they seemed to be making progress, Gendo and the cult ruined it. The saddest part is that when they weren't with their mentors, they were actually genuinely and nearly at peace. All the adults managed to do was destabilize them further.
Another game that I think is actively telling you to stop killing is Bloodborne - there's a subconscious tell from both the Doll and Gehrman, as well as multiple live characters you meet, that are telling you to not continue triggering things or bring about the dark divinity of the game. I believe that is why the default ending of the game is you waking up from the nightmare (because, well, you should.)
Imo, the multiple ending system is really a reference to the notion of Samsara. You are stuck in a cycle and each time you gain enlightenment until you are able to reach Nirvana and be free of the cycle. This reincarnation theme is apparent in lots of different ways throughout every Drag-On Dragoon and NieR game (and even in SINoALICE) but for some reason no western gamers seem to ever discuss it. There is a ton to say about this in each game.
Notably, Furies (renamed to Furiae in the English localization) is a reference to the Greek Furies (aka Erinyes). They represent the cycle of blood for blood vengeance within Greek literature. Yoko Taro's works are always extremely well researched and unfortunately a lot of details get changed in ways that make them harder to see in the English localizations of his games. Watchers refers to a type of angel (it was just "angel" in the original, but localized to watcher) and God was localized to "gods". Another big theme throughout the games is about the concept of God and they're essentially the true villain of both series.
I knew Zero had to remember what she did in the other routes ! She has a piece of god inside her ! And I don't see why Caim would abandon his sister, because as Seere's chapter proves, he CAN put his killing aside, if the person is actually someone he still hasn't given up on.
Also, I'm actually glad they localized the word angels to Watchers. It allows us to make the distinction between the babies and the angels of the Intoners.
The babies are the Dragons true forms. They have been redeemed in God's eyes, so they do what they refused to do the first time, which is to destroy humanity. I think Watchers empaphises why it had to be the dragons do do the work, and no other class of angel.
Yoko Taro is a PHD level troll
I feel like some titles like this one aren't exactly the most enjoyable video games, but they are still an unforgettable sort of art piece or experience that really makes an impression on you. I played this game years ago and yet I still find myself rewatching the endings from time to time. I feel this way about No More Heroes 1 as well.
Drakengard is basically how humans would really behave in a magical world. Is a game when you fall into madness, even the soundtrack is a clear example of that, is a very VERY twisted game
Drakengard was one of my childhood games.
Thanks for doing a video on it!
Drakan: Order of the Flame was my first video game too. I've never found anyone who remembered it.
Also, seems like you omitted that tge only decent character is the Dragon
Out of all of them, you can make a good argument that that is the case, but even then, Angelus (the dragon) is a bit too prejudiced for me to call them "decent" per se. Though if you go with Ending A Angelus, I would agree with that.
Hey Max. Just started the video and wanted to say I'm happy you're covering Drakengard. I had first played it when I was five years old in 2003, it was my first piece of media that really gave me a love of the weird/strange and its stuck with me all these years as my favorite game series (even though the gameplay sucks)
I really vibed with the endings that are completely bleak, to me it fits best to showcase that there can’t be a happy ending as the result of so much violence. Its one thing I suppose to have a hero violently fighting against an invasion and trying to save the world, but the game goes out of its way constantly to tell you Caim is not that character, he’s just seethingly angry and the war is just a convenient direction to point that anger. Theres no happy ending for that, even in the sequel with the war over he spends years just torturing manah before going on another rampage.
I feel Drakengard is severely overlooked and underrated.
Also I recently beat Ending E again, I didn't need to level the weapons only obtain them (which is a chore on its own with the damn hidden and timed chests)
Wait, you need to grind-out all of the weapons? I never did that, I only needed to obtain the weapons and I got the ending E. Is there a difference between the pal and ntcs-u version?
Ok first, Max I am beyond giddy to see you reference playing Drakan, I had almost convinced myself that I hallucinated the game considering how little coverage it has gotten anywhere else.
Taro's games to me are the most egregious and definitive answer to the question 'Are games art?' And I mean that in the most loving way possible.
The answer is of course, a resounding YES', and he uses suffering to prove it. I have so many thoughts about Nier and Automata and how I kept getting the creeping feeling that this wasn't so much a game as it was a crystalized transmission from a curious and twisted mind for the purpose of forcing me to re-examine all the things that I thought I valued in my lifelong love of gaming.
One persistent aspect of his works that spoke to me was that in so many cases, the choices we make do not often lead to the outcomes we anticipate, not just rpg style choices but player decisions like 'I will get the true ending', leading to literally days of grinding that is deliberately crafted to be so much more tedious than the 'reward' should justify. This forced me to re-examine my completionist mentality, and gave me some uncomfortable answers as to why I was that way. This is so wildly different from most other games where the results of our choices are almost always telegraphed and following a very simplistic morality.
I think that sums up my love of Taro's works: He forces us to confront those uncomfortable answers and re-examine our motivations. AND HE DOES IT WITH EVERYTHING. Not just story text, or character actions, but with the damn game mechanics itself and that is a level of genius that had he chosen instead to 'transmit' less humane values I would literally consider the games as cognitohazards. Instead I am thankful he has led me to being a better person through his intensely human and repeatedly heart rending themes and moments.
This reply has gotten far too long and yet I am still bursting with things to say. As always, thank you for your work, it gave me a lot to think about tonight.
Weapons have stories written in their descriptions?
Who did it first - Drakengard or FROM software? Was that a thing in King's Field or their other pre-Souls games?
It would be crazy if Yokotaro and Miyazaki collab for a game. That would something to look forward to.
actually good level design and game progression mixed with the goods of both companies combat system/designs and none of the bad, with an enthralling and deeply reflecting story and an even richer world?
hell yeah, and the best part is that i'm pretty sure that while they generally have different preferences, their tastes are surprisingly close, bar the futuristic and modern bits taro likes compared to miyazaki who afaik doesn't really have a specific love for more modern setting or elements even if he worked on AC(might be wrong tho)
yoko taro makes games, like he makes narratives
both make you feel like shit but in a good way
he is the embodiment of : beautifull pain
Drakengard is a story with no heroes, only villains that somehow did good.
Nier is a story with no heroes, only villains you can sympathize with. And they committed the crime of extinction.
Nier is a story with no villains, only heroes that somehow did bad.
Drakengard is a story with no villains, only heroes you cannot sympathize with.
(i am not counting pre-shade Tyrann in the first part)
I appreciate you covering Drakengard. The last I recall of this game was reading The Dark Id's LP, which reveled in this game's deranged story. Good to see you found some value in it all.
"Good," endings are the first ones you unlock in Yoko Taro's games. There's a resolution to the story and a somewhat happy ending.
The subsequent finale's require more killing and reliving trauma in order to unlock more secrets within the lore and more powerful upgrades for the player character.
Every time I think about what a badass Angelus is I get goose bumps. One of my all time favorites. I can't help but feel that she was the true hero of the story as well as the counterbalance to Caim's psychopathy.
this game was recommended to me by my cousin as a kid and man, it did not disappoint with its depth of story. some of the gameplay was atrocious but some games were like that back then but as a kid youre just Caim dealing with all his crappy situations. it really struck a chord with me. Seeing Caim as a mute murderer was badass. he definitely had some GUTS in him by the 2nd game. i wanted to play as him as soon as i saw him decimate a bunch of people with one giant sword swing.
Enjoyed the Keanu part
I think people often put him on a pedestal too much and I am sure even him would agree. He has always given me B tier actor vibes but obviously that isn't the case. I guess a way I could describe it is that character that hides their level of technique honed by experience. Oddly enough Taro feels the same way like I love Automata but there were moments that I truly questioned Taro's directing and decisions but at the end I was like "ah yes this Taro I shouldn't be surprised" great video man here's hoping we get a new drakengard game.
How to have fun with NieR Automata:
Step 1. Let somebody play the game and watch them instead.
Step 2. Forget that you enjoy core combat of action games.
Step 3. Listen to the soundtrack
Step 4. You are now free to claim that you are a fan of the game.
Yoko is a madman. The world needs more Yoko Taro’s.
One of my ambitions is to be called the "Yoko Taro of fanfic".
I played this game as a kid and even though the localization censored a lot of the more disturbing themes, they still seeped through. The game messed me up for a while.
Drakengard never sucked. This idea that we can like something bad is absurdly dumb. and it only feels bland because you played newer shit, a game 20 years from now will make Nier feel bland as well. You dont need to level the weapons to max.
You just don't like musou, dont call it repetitive, it is what it is.
Dude, a Much Ado reference! Been awhile since I've encountered anyone who knew that one. When Keanu said as Don John "I am not of many words," I cheered.
PLEASE make a video on Thief the Dark Project and the esoteric factions in the games lore.
i would like analysis on the guard fight in thief 2
that old Yellow gamestop sticker hit different
Glad to have some understanding of drakenguard's relation to neir now, without having to slog through it. Thank you for your public service
Will you ever make a video about replicant/first NieR game?
Whether OG or the remake.
Stay tuned!
@@maxderrat
👀
This is an awesome perspective. I've seen retrospectives of the games story and from all I have seen, this one seems unique.
It's wild you actually went for that ending despite the crazy amount of work it takes to get there. I'm the type to just play most games naturally, get whatever ending, and then just watch UA-cam videos of the other ones. 😅 Except for with the Nier games, funny enough. I actually did get all of those the right way.
I have spent so many hours grinding in Drakengard. I put on a podcast or YT vid and level up my weapons.
Yayy drakengard video!
Btw one game I think you would love and I'd like to recommend is moon rpg remix, very interesting.
You know the weird thing is I don't like ALL Musou games, but I love Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors. The reason is because I'm really into ancient history, warrior cultures, and martial arts. (Also being a martial arts practitioner myself.) I first played Dynasty Warriors because I read Romance of the Three Kingdoms as a kid beforehand. I first played Drakengard because I didn't know what it was about beyond the surface level which was a knight on a dragon going around and having fantasy adventures. I've been seriously interested in Arthurian legend ever since I was about four years old and fantasy as a genre just as long. So given I only knew what Drakengard was based on the box cover as a kid, you can see why I picked it up knowing what you now know about me.
Boy was I in for a shock when I realized as I played through it what it was REALLY like. For years I looked back on this game thinking, "That sure was messed up...but creative and made me think." Because of the tumultuous varying feelings I had for the game, I developed a respect and fondness for Yoko Taro and his work. It wasn't just because of the messages he has in his work, but how creatively he delivers those messages. I also respect him for his boundary-pushing and also his view of the world on top of his desire to make you think about what you're even doing in the first place.
The fact that he wants to make you think about your experiences with his games and all of the emotional content found within in the first place is something I can respect and admire. That and he really has evolved with time and experience with his work. If anything, he knows how to really pull on your heart strings and he always gives his dead-level best to create a true experience, not just push out a title that will bring in big sales. That's not to say other game creators don't still do that from time to time, but it's less common these days than it used to be, as jaded as that makes me sound. His work is always more of an experience than it is just a game is probably the best way I can say it. Sometimes the only way I can think to explain or answer questions like, "Why is this the way it is?," is simply, "Because Yoko Taro." In a way, I find that interesting.
I played Drakenhard but didnt finish it. All I remember thinking was it's like a Dynasty Warriors kind of game but with dragon combat. Never did it occur to me that it was a bad game. I only stopped playing it coz some of the dragon fights became too hard for me. Seeing this video is an interesting take on the game. It makes me want to play it again
Having never played this game, I had no idea that the pact visually mirrors the black box reaction in Automata. That’s a neat touch.
15:05 oh boy oh boy , that scene
14:03 actually i watched that video, it was interesting, i recommend other watch as well(really make you thinking about killing in real life and digital, examples of real life and other stuffs)
9:03 relaxation never was point lol, if anything it is disturbation
well i am glad someone talked about First Drakengard, (well , I am a fan of drakengard 3, and yeah i mean, sure that game sucks too but as you said, on purpose ,...it was somehow weird to love that game, but i say, characters were engaging (except desiples) ...but point is , while i am not so much into drakengard 1, i always found drakengard 3 , a game to look upon, even if it meant for a test, if anyone find to take look at first game, give chance to third game as well...(also got some cool manga and novel too...overal story is much more like nier series than frist drakengard)
Bland gameplay was one of the criticism toward Spec Ops: The Line, and allegedly, it was supposed to be this way.
I, for one, welcome our robot overlords.
Always interesting to see a story play through some absolute sludge of interactivity.
A crime! An absolute crime that you did not speak about the game's glorious soundtrack!
Honestly, I thought the music was okay. Maybe my assessment is unfair, though... because I heard the SSS-tier music from Replicant and Automata first.
Indeed ! The chaos is just wonderful ! And some of it should be used in "Kingdom Hearts". Truth be told, some of that cast could be toughened up a little.
@@maxderrat...I'll do my best to forgive you for this assessment.
@@JabamiLain rip stravinsky, prokofiev and bela bartok, lost to anime singing
@maxderrat i think the mysic perfectly replicates the insanity of the game, thats why its so annoying and repetitive
I absolutely lost it hearing you talk about having to grind all the weapons lmao. For the sake of seeing the ending pre-Nier, meanwhile I did it as a teenager before Nier even came out.... just because... >_>
I've never seen a game where every character is foul and deprave. Even the main character is a unhinged psycho, and the other likes to eat kids is messed up beyond relief. There's one thing I can't handle is cannibalism and creeps who take advantage towards kids.
That's the whole point.
I don't need EVERYTHING I play to be as depraved, but I wished more games would have a questionable cast.
I love this games story and i am terrified about any considerations for a remake
Memory unlocked. Oh my god. I played so much Drakan Order of the flame. Totally forgot about that game. Such an underrated gym.
@13:58 lolz at redoing this quest so many times to get the ending branch
I played maybe a couple hours of this game, years ago. Never knew the title until well after I played Neir. But I knew there was something bigger to it, even then. That pact moment was the spark for me.