Thanks for the shoutout, and great work! or should I say Great Work! I was just thinking about the union of opposites today regarding another piece of media. 🤔
It's like that Beavis and Butthead episode: "WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THE *SHADOW* AND WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THE *UNCONSCIOUS* AND WE'LL CERTAINLY BE TALKING ABOUT THE *OPPOSITES! DO YOU FIND THAT FUNNY?!"* 😂
the 10 minute lead up, to the 2 minute reveal and the 5 minutes of genuine excitement that your studies have lead to the creation of a video game. Congratulations. This is the same as the philosophers of ages past finding xenogears or any 90s jrpg. You are living an intellectually and spiritually stimulating life and I'm glad you can see the fruit bore.
16:17 Something I'd like to point out, Ending A is rather blatantly a criticism of the real-world Digital Age, and the Internet. The internet, like Logic, is a repository of all human knowledge, and can be accessed by anyone. And yet, despite the purpose of the internet as a way to connect people and share knowledge and experiences, it has also resulted in insulating behavior and depersonalization, which exactly what is said of Logic and the future it brings.
This. Seems less like the hivemind/loss of individuality scenario that we saw a few times, and more of a hyper-individualization, self-isolation and curated reality that reflects what we see today.
Yes but it's a little more complicated. Logic is not just the internet but postmodernity and hyperreality. In F&H 2 Rher surfaces our shadow selves. In particular, Rher surfaces the Sulfur God, the shadow of Almer. But Rher does not create our shadow. Rher is not really our enemy. Logic who ascends under Rher pulls a similar trick. Logic echoes Rher in sharing our unconscious. But Logic isn't responsible for our shadow. It's more of a you cannot shortcut enlightenment sort of idea I think. The internet reveals much of our darkest shadow but does not create it.
@@yum9918 that "hyper-individualization," as you call it, is one of the late stages of neoliberal society driven by rampant capitalism: people become less distinct because they believe they are MORE individual, isolating them while also removing their tendency to think, ironically, as a true individual. We are never as original as we think we are, and those who can see that facade stand to gain from it.
It's not really criticism though. The game mostly portrays Logic as a net positive for humanity, the same way the previous Age of Cruelty had been. That the negative consequences are worth it in exchange for advancement of humanity and real forward progress. Most people would argue the same for computers and the internet. 🤷 Hell, most would argue the same thing for capitalism, which has unquestionably pulled more people out of poverty than any other innovation in the history of mankind despite having some obvious ills. Real life isn't so damn black and white.
I hope Vinushka, the god of nature and the logic god will have more pressence in the third game, maybe set in a cyberpunk hive city nightmare and/or solarpunk feverdream with themes about humanity's complicated relationship to nature and technology
That's what I thought a third game could be about. In the first game we end an era with the birth of a new god, then the second game is about the end of that era ending it with yet another god being born. The third game could be set in this new era which would be more futuristic or at least modern.
I would definitely expect Vinushka to take a bigger role but for a different reason, along with the other old gods. Perhaps the next game will be set in Vinland, the nightmarish land of perpetual darkness closely tied to the old gods, a North America colony that remains mostly untamed by 1942 in game.
To be fair, there are hints that Vinushka was replaced by Logic, but I still suspect that the third game will focus on the consequences of Logic's creation
@@cdru515 I interpret it as an attempt to replace Vinushka, but he represents all natural cycles and biological life, as long as these are present he won’t be forgotten and will have influence. Might be a HUGE stretch, but Logic could be an aspect of Vinushka since it represents a very drastic change and human nature
In my head cannon, F&H3 could be a follow up in the future where Logic not only remains active, but pervasive in human lives. Most of humanity has merged with the structure as a means of connection, control by the state, or a means of enlightenment through a literal means of merging vessels. I could imagine in this day and age, the gods are near completely forgotten as Logic has dominated overall. However, with a stagnation of philosophical and religious presence, an erosion of spirit could emerge. With a lack of identity, the individual minds will degrade into monstrous beings that could only be found in moth eaten books that are considered antiques. Since most people are hooked to Logic, I can imagine there is some sort of life support, so production of ready made food is sparse. Those who haven't see the real world in their lives won't know how to navigate it. Those who lived in Logic will see the terror of their friends and family corrupt into monsters. The collective unconsciousness may try to develop a safe haven where they can retain themselves and each other. Wouldn't it be neat if that Haven was Ma'habre? It was always there, it just needed a medium to exist in. Just a thought
Enki ultimately proved that humanity could embrace their shadow self and come out with their mind and humanity intact in his S ending. Logic, as you mentioned, would eliminate personality and keep you trapped in a dreamlike state, which is ultimately no better than the new gods being trapped in that dining hall.
You deserve this tribute/Fame for all the culture and knowledge shared in all your videos. 3 years ago I left you a message and we discussed how people not worth of fame were idolized, now three years later, you get a great gift of the universe. I'm really glad my friend, enjoy and keep the good work! 👏👏👏👏👏
With the Shadow/Unconcious Self, I can't help but think about character's Moonscorched forms, and how some of them almost seem like a reflection of what they dislike about themselves. Levi's Weeping scope form is like how he was formed into a weapon by the state, Olivia's Mechanical Dancer being entirely metal, Marcoh's Giant being a massive brute with clubs for hands... And Daan, being Pocketcat, who actually seems to accept his transformation, does that make Pocketcat a Perfect Self, in some weird way?
theyre like a grim version of the Shadow selves in Persona 4, which, hey, another deeply Jungian series. Another notable one is Abella's Chaugnar being incredibly muscular and masculine, likely representing a repressed (since she doesnt seem particularly worried about it prior to turning) insecurity about her perceived lack of femininity.
This was lovely. I love the shout outs to Worm Girl and MautheDog. Incredible work as always. Congratulations on your work being cited. Side note: Have you played Who's Lila yet? The game straight up shouts out Jungian Psychology so I'd think it'd be up your alley.
That ending, yeah, the idea itself of merging by definition must have an opposite, separation, and both must be balanced. A merging where individual disappears in favor of the collective is not ideal, it's a merging done wrong. It's why the Marriage of flesh becomes more of a wretch the more it's practiced, the union of male and female is not supposed to be the literal erasure of sexual differences, and I grow more convinced that it's a resentful selfishness what drives it, the goal of never needing to rely on another human being. For them, needing something your body is incapable of providing on it's own is unacceptable.
I'm asexual and antinatalist. I resent the notion that I 'should' bring a baby into this world, just to pay a mortgage, suffer and die. No. I'm done wishing this would all just go up in smoke but I'm also just done.
Watching you'r videos are a delight, I feel like I not only learn more about philosophy than I did at university, but also understand the concepts far better. And I start seeing the patterns elsewhere as well. This video also reminded me of Hollow Knight, where the Radiance gave "Unity" (possibly similar to the Logic ending in FaH 2) to the moths, but they ultimately abandoned "Unity" for "Higher Thought" when they met the Pale King. The Pale King later used a Vessel (the titular Hollow Knight), a union of opposites (the shell of a Higher Being and a heart of Void), to seal away the Radiance. There's a lot more nuance to the story but the gist of it has a lot of familiar symbology.
The battle Royale until only one survives to reach the summit of a giant tower reminds me of digital devil saga I wonder where that idea comes from and what it symbolizes
Would you consider doing an analysis on the Watchmen tie-in comic/animated short film *"Tales of the Black Freighter".* (Granted you may have to read/watch the comic/film of Watchmen to fully understand it) Though it is its own story of a castaway sailor losing his sanity and morals trying to get home, the messages, themes & allegories tie into the Watchmen comic/film. It really shook me.
If I were to do it, I would want to do it while talking about the wider Watchmen story and lore simultaneously. Or, I would do a video on Watchmen first, and then do Tales of the Black Freighter.
Max Derrat not understanding that he is a force of nature here on UA-cam and not just one of the random essayists/analysts on the platform is hella funny to me :D
he is just another analyst tho, just because he's good and he is prevalent in your algorithm and bubble doesn't make him a force of nature, 99% of the youtube and general audience have never heard of him, stop thinking the world revolves around your interests, it's not healthy. this is no hate to max, he is a great guy with a cool channel.
@@stoffelthedestroyer3741 that doesn't even make any sense? how do you reach that conclusion? i wouldn't even be able to watch this video if i had that short of an attention span. you literally said nothing about what i wrote and simply insulted me for no reason, did i disrupt your masturbating session to youtube analysts?
What I have gleaned from your videos, writ large, is that when videogame developers want to get occulty/deep, they build a lore based on Jung's theories that I basically describe as "explaining psychology by applying mythology tropes" lol. It all feels secretly real, cuz the psychology it's based on of course feels familiar. And since the psychology reminds us of things we have experienced in our own lives, we assume the rest that doesn't feel familiar, must also be true. And thus the sensation that we're becoming party to deep dark mysteries. Your analyses are always spot on, but, game developers really love the Jungian occulty well lol
another thing to consider on the Conscious vs Subconscious is the other model, in which the conscious mind has two components, the Ego and Superego, The Id obviously matches the Shadow of Sulfur, and Superego being morality and religious beliefs matches well to the divine and kind Allmer, so we are left with the final one, Ego, which represents Logic, 3 guesses whos that part
16:53 but wouldn't that actually be worse? Like, rather than seeking new experiences and solving new problems, people would rather stay in our shared world, so there would not be any true advancement 🤔 after all, in f&h1 nash'rah says something along the lines of "humanity is chaos, not meant to be controlled"; but also this would mean that there's no hope either than joining the sulfur god or everyone ascending and becoming a new god...man this lore really makes you think
. (And a paradoxical self-contradiction) If humanity were to actually develop the impetus and involvement to really live, rather than be dissociated sycophants, Then they wouldn't need to defer to apathetic distant iconography. -But instead, Humanity is chaos. Unreasonable. Therefor, They tear through worlds, paradigms, abstract concepts, And ultimately invent a way to have even less responsibility for themselves, Only to spitefully disobey the ideals they made for themselves again. (The outer beings always retreat into the void, because humans freak them out.)
@@Владислав-ы9м5уthats kinda what I was thinking after watching this, Logic in a way has kinda won here - everyone being connected with the internet. Would rather stay in their homes rooted to their devices rather than going outside and doing anything. Doesn't need to be a full on matrix-like reality to achieve this sort of thing.
Holy shit how did i not notice what al-meer casting of his bad things down meant. I PLAYED P4 AND READ SOME OF JUNG AND I DIDN'T NOTICE NOOOOOOOOOO IT WAS SO CLEAR.
Trivia: Perkele is a finnish swear word, sort of the kind of "goddamn!" It is related to the christian devil, and in modern times is thought of as a synonym. Some researchers believe that it was also used as the name for the supreme god in finnish pagan beliefs and pantheon, commonly known as "Ukko" the thunder god. Haven't played the games, so can't provide any more input or analysis on the name. Of course, could also just be an easter egg kind of thing since so many non-finnish speakers know perkele as a finnish swear word ^^'
With the state of Lucid Dreaming. I don’t find it’s a good union of Unconscious and Conscious. At least from the Conscious perspective. When I lucid dream, I feel like I lack my higher thought, my creativity. I realise I’m dreaming but don’t actually do much with it. It’s more intense and can be pleasant, but I still lack something.
If you’re interested in occultism a good intro is this podcast called “Know Thyself”. It’s like putting your toe into the water. Caution though, shit gets really scary the deeper you go.
This is really cool, I'm glad Max's videos are bringing these great ideas into public consciousness. I hope more games use his videos as reference points.
Max, love you videos man. I really do feel like learning a lot from watching them. You were also an inspiration for me to start reading Jung's and Freud's work, together with Alan Watts' books
"Pegrrkele that is how it is pronounced." As a proud Finn, I can confirm. That is the way I try to say it from moment starting now. Better than our original way to say it.
Dangit, after watching this video I now need a "Welcome to the club" sort of meme consisting of game devs who do their own thing depicting at least Hideo Kojima, Koji Igarashi and Yoko Taro all together welcoming Miiro in cause good grief I completely lost it laughing my ass off when I got to the brain bit. On a side note, would be really neat to see ya meet & chat with the fellas from The New Gods' podcast sometime too I think.
I think if anything Fear & Hunger 3 will have to do with some sort of battle between gods like Logic and Sulfur over the state that humanity-between free will and true paradise. As for how that would look, I have no idea 🤷
as a fan of your channel, sir, it's great that your analysis has reached out to other creators and made them an inspiration for their works. I, too, am one of those. Hopefully, one day, I can share my works with you who were inspired by your videos. Thank you for the teachings.
You my have hit the nail on the head as to why i like this series with these two videos. I love the type of horror it visually shows but I knew it was something else, but I didn't know why till now.
I think Nas'hrah may be a new god that predates Alllmer, and that's why he was included in the Old Gods. He is a lower case "o" old god, but not an Old God.
Amazing breakdown and explaination of this game and comparison to Aion by Carl Jung. As someone mentioned already in the comment section (which I've said for years). A.I. will be the major collective which leads us to singularity point.
If you are on the radar of indie game devs of that caliber then you are also on the radar of the Department of Defense and probably multiple "breakaway civilizations" congrats brother.
Imagine being a (relatively) small time content creator and (directly) inspiring a video game that people will be referencing and inspecting the lore of and the characters included for years to come. Congrats, friend. You have achieved what many of us can only dream of.
Loved the video. I think Logic isn't purely or 100% in a combined mind state since she still recognizes Olivia and speaks as if she's emotional to be reunited with her. If she truly was just the databank for connecting thought wouldn't Olivia get the same response as the other contestants?
I originally questioned the reason why the logic project would be completed during the festival. Of course logic's symbol is vinushka's with a dash through it (the killing of vinushka possibly symbolism when we abandoned nature we moved to technology) So I had assumed rher was only tacked on. But this video made me realize Rher's festival was the perfect point in time because his dominion is the mind and *dreams*. With logic prioritizing the unconscious and conscious for union. I do hope you cover moonscorching, I am aware it would be similar to the union analysis you used, but I would like to see your interpretation of each moonscorch and what it means for each character.
I wish I could convey how hard my jaw dropped watching this. I LOOOOVE your videos on Funger so much and it's so cool how full circle this became!! EDIT: I totally made comparisons to Lain and Logic as well omg!!! I'm so excited someone is finally talking about it too
I wish AAA games could be as deep as Fear & Hunger has delivered here. I mean there's so much to talk about or even contemplate here. The fact that this game alone deals with the atrocities of mankind, and how the town itself has been completely lifeless due to the effects of the war. How this town alone worships a God known as the Sulfur God, and how his presence alone effected this entire city of Termina.
Im rather new to fear&hunger just watching gameplay of the most famous moments and small lore dumps here an there and I must say im really grateful for your video alongside these comments really helped me understand alot of the themes and knowledge behind the game. Thanks man
Props for learning how to say a lot of the names and terms. Being a pretty much unvoiced game, I had no idea even the town name wasn’t pronounced like pre-heave-el
I've been learning a lot about Yoga and Indian philosophy recently and I think you would find some of their concepts very fascinating. One of the main differences is that the Yogis did not try to understand the human mind by observing others, but by directing their focus deeply within themselves and exploring every possible nook of their psyche. There are of course also plenty of teachings about the wholeness of body and mind and transcendence.
Man, this video drops just when I grasp enough about Jungian psychology to actually understand the subject and what you're talking about. It's been a wild ride when I dropped into a rabbit hole last summer comparing Jungian concepts to plot elements in a less well known PS2 game (with ChatGPT as I knew jack about Jung at that point). What I discovered was... puzzling at first, and pieces kept falling into place and by the end I was convinced that the writer has to have taken concepts from Jungian psychology. That I'm willing to bet money on.
I am currently reading "hard boiled wonderland and the end of the world" by haruki murakami and I really love the atmosphere of the book even tho its hard to determine what are the themes and what is it all about in the end but at some point the main character is deprived of his shadow and your explanation of the shadow was very interesting and enlightning regarding this book and what was the whole purpose of the shadow existence
The occult references are pretty disturbing, but the regular references are pretty cool Reminds you that this game is basically Majora's Mask for depressed adults 😅
I think that becoming gods through technology is the epitome of biblical idolatry. It's an easy path to salvation that depends entirely on another object and removes any effort to change and be better. No matter how Logic, or real world AI, can come close to divinity, they are not the real thing, and will thus inevitably fail.
Hows it feel to know you helped inspire one of the most gnosis driven stories we've been blessed with to date? Congrats man. Your work potentially helped drive another down his path.
Now it suddenly makes sense to me why the Sulfur God looks like a human without the skin, if it is indeed the shadow, hidden side of humanity. It looks like what is left of a human (the dark, hidden inside) without the part that is usually visible (the skin, hair, eyes).
The answer to your last question will be different for each person. Not all people can handle enlightenment. Not all can become a divine singular. Or even just divine. For these being a cog in a greater machine is a comfort. So just as Logic is not the answer for everyone so too is enlightenment or ascension not for everyone. Perhaps that will be what gets explored in the next Funger. How Logic was not the answer that was needed and what that has brought into being.
Something interesting I noticed is that this extends even further than you explored in this video. The person who becomes Logic, Reila, similarly mirrors Alll-Mer in certain ways. Namely, and the wording is very interesting here, her sister Olivia possesses the Shadowed Soul. Olivia has the most unique reaction of any contestant to equipping a firearm for the first time, feeling like it makes her powerful. In Olivia's backstory, we learn Reila had a relationship with a college professor who turned out to be a member of the anti-Bremen resistance group, and this is how Reila is recruited to their cause. Olivia also specifically has the choice in her background to be jealous of this relationship and attempt to break them up or "steal her man away". Reila is eventually captured by the Bremen Empire (also similar to Le'Garde's imprisonment by the Kingdom of Rondon), but her story eventually leads her to Prehevil where she puts herself in Logic so that Kaiser can't, thus essentially sacrificing her life, humanity, and connection to her family, casting it away, to become an Ascended God. I feel like there's something here, but like most things in this game series it's done mostly by subtext rather than outright exposition, but I found it interesting nonetheless.
Man I'm so glad this is a game and a fictional work and this is not happening and could never happen in real life am I right fellas? Ahahaha I mean people preferring a digital world to reality? Losing individuality? Becoming cut off from the ancient wisdom of their collective unconscious? Couldn't happen for real. Never ever.
Thanks for the shoutout, and great work! or should I say Great Work! I was just thinking about the union of opposites today regarding another piece of media. 🤔
I loved your videos about Fear & Hunger.
One of the rare times I had already watched something before he even played the game it was about.
your lisa videos are based. thanks for posting your work for us to enjoy
Always a treat to see a Worm Gorl in her element! That being a wholesome eldritch entity of deep thinkin and good noise 😊
or perhaps even Great Worm?
And so Max has become the ouroboros, generating and devouring his own content.
😂
ISSA MEME MACHINE
When Max realized he was the Fear and Hunger 2: Termina all along, I genuinely couldn't keep my grin off my face.
Max to be added as a playable character in FEARFUL AND HUNGRY 3: How to Cook
Fearful and Hungrier 3: Cook Harder
the final chapter: fearless and absolutely full (ridiculously good ending)
"How to Serve Man"
IT'S A COOK BOOK!!
Fear and hunger 3: colon three
Fear and hunger 3 : let them cook
It's like that Beavis and Butthead episode: "WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THE *SHADOW* AND WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THE *UNCONSCIOUS* AND WE'LL CERTAINLY BE TALKING ABOUT THE *OPPOSITES! DO YOU FIND THAT FUNNY?!"* 😂
"DO YOU FIND FUNNY WE'RE GONNA BE TALKING ABOUT *THE SELF?!"*
@@Vincent_RabbitDO YOU FIND IT FUNNY BUTTHEAD? DO YOU FIND IT FUNNY WE’LL BE TALKING ABOUT THE OCCULT?
That was cool
AND... AND WE WILL DEFINITELY BE TALKING A LOT ABOUT OCCULT REFERENCES!
That union of opposites appears quite a lot throughout the series, as well as humanity's rejection of it. Vinushka is a prime example
Hey, it’s you 👆
A.I. the omissiah. Our collective ideas merging into a machine that can simulate being in a lucid state infinitely achieving Godhood.
"From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me[...]"
@@Manwendlil"For I craved the certainty of steel"
So... Basically the Matrix
I am now the toaster
Look at him! He's the toaster now...
I love how Prehevil is based on Prague which was a great alchemical centre in Europe
I can't imagine what it must feel like to have inspired a video game and to see it realised in your lifetime. Congrats, man.
I imagine my reaction would be similar to Max's. It's amazing.
I can't imagine a better content creator to inspire part of a video game.
the 10 minute lead up, to the 2 minute reveal and the 5 minutes of genuine excitement that your studies have lead to the creation of a video game. Congratulations. This is the same as the philosophers of ages past finding xenogears or any 90s jrpg. You are living an intellectually and spiritually stimulating life and I'm glad you can see the fruit bore.
16:17 Something I'd like to point out, Ending A is rather blatantly a criticism of the real-world Digital Age, and the Internet. The internet, like Logic, is a repository of all human knowledge, and can be accessed by anyone. And yet, despite the purpose of the internet as a way to connect people and share knowledge and experiences, it has also resulted in insulating behavior and depersonalization, which exactly what is said of Logic and the future it brings.
This.
Seems less like the hivemind/loss of individuality scenario that we saw a few times, and more of a hyper-individualization, self-isolation and curated reality that reflects what we see today.
Yes but it's a little more complicated. Logic is not just the internet but postmodernity and hyperreality.
In F&H 2 Rher surfaces our shadow selves. In particular, Rher surfaces the Sulfur God, the shadow of Almer. But Rher does not create our shadow. Rher is not really our enemy.
Logic who ascends under Rher pulls a similar trick. Logic echoes Rher in sharing our unconscious. But Logic isn't responsible for our shadow.
It's more of a you cannot shortcut enlightenment sort of idea I think. The internet reveals much of our darkest shadow but does not create it.
@@yum9918 that "hyper-individualization," as you call it, is one of the late stages of neoliberal society driven by rampant capitalism: people become less distinct because they believe they are MORE individual, isolating them while also removing their tendency to think, ironically, as a true individual. We are never as original as we think we are, and those who can see that facade stand to gain from it.
@@VeritabIlIti Rampant materialism of any kind.
It's not really criticism though. The game mostly portrays Logic as a net positive for humanity, the same way the previous Age of Cruelty had been. That the negative consequences are worth it in exchange for advancement of humanity and real forward progress. Most people would argue the same for computers and the internet. 🤷 Hell, most would argue the same thing for capitalism, which has unquestionably pulled more people out of poverty than any other innovation in the history of mankind despite having some obvious ills. Real life isn't so damn black and white.
Max: Let's take a look at the lore of F&H2.
Minutes later: Oh, it appears I inspired the lore.
Ending a is like the human instrumentality project from Eva.
The last minute of the video being frames from evangelion was a jumpscare
Also infinite dream from Naruto Shippuden
I hope Vinushka, the god of nature and the logic god will have more pressence in the third game, maybe set in a cyberpunk hive city nightmare and/or solarpunk feverdream with themes about humanity's complicated relationship to nature and technology
That's what I thought a third game could be about. In the first game we end an era with the birth of a new god, then the second game is about the end of that era ending it with yet another god being born. The third game could be set in this new era which would be more futuristic or at least modern.
I would definitely expect Vinushka to take a bigger role but for a different reason, along with the other old gods. Perhaps the next game will be set in Vinland, the nightmarish land of perpetual darkness closely tied to the old gods, a North America colony that remains mostly untamed by 1942 in game.
To be fair, there are hints that Vinushka was replaced by Logic, but I still suspect that the third game will focus on the consequences of Logic's creation
@@cdru515 I interpret it as an attempt to replace Vinushka, but he represents all natural cycles and biological life, as long as these are present he won’t be forgotten and will have influence. Might be a HUGE stretch, but Logic could be an aspect of Vinushka since it represents a very drastic change and human nature
Also David Martinez needs to be playable.
In my head cannon, F&H3 could be a follow up in the future where Logic not only remains active, but pervasive in human lives. Most of humanity has merged with the structure as a means of connection, control by the state, or a means of enlightenment through a literal means of merging vessels. I could imagine in this day and age, the gods are near completely forgotten as Logic has dominated overall. However, with a stagnation of philosophical and religious presence, an erosion of spirit could emerge. With a lack of identity, the individual minds will degrade into monstrous beings that could only be found in moth eaten books that are considered antiques. Since most people are hooked to Logic, I can imagine there is some sort of life support, so production of ready made food is sparse. Those who haven't see the real world in their lives won't know how to navigate it. Those who lived in Logic will see the terror of their friends and family corrupt into monsters. The collective unconsciousness may try to develop a safe haven where they can retain themselves and each other. Wouldn't it be neat if that Haven was Ma'habre? It was always there, it just needed a medium to exist in.
Just a thought
Enki ultimately proved that humanity could embrace their shadow self and come out with their mind and humanity intact in his S ending. Logic, as you mentioned, would eliminate personality and keep you trapped in a dreamlike state, which is ultimately no better than the new gods being trapped in that dining hall.
Wait... A mortal turned god who ascended by discarding his evil self?
Holy crap the Sulfur God is literally Demon King Piccolo from Dragon Ball
The video is great, but I can't get that thumbnail image out of my head.
HE'S BALLIN WITH THE MOON
You deserve this tribute/Fame for all the culture and knowledge shared in all your videos. 3 years ago I left you a message and we discussed how people not worth of fame were idolized, now three years later, you get a great gift of the universe. I'm really glad my friend, enjoy and keep the good work! 👏👏👏👏👏
With the Shadow/Unconcious Self, I can't help but think about character's Moonscorched forms, and how some of them almost seem like a reflection of what they dislike about themselves. Levi's Weeping scope form is like how he was formed into a weapon by the state, Olivia's Mechanical Dancer being entirely metal, Marcoh's Giant being a massive brute with clubs for hands...
And Daan, being Pocketcat, who actually seems to accept his transformation, does that make Pocketcat a Perfect Self, in some weird way?
Nah i think pocket cat just possed him due to trauma you tellin me that Dan who isnt a pedo becomes a pedo
theyre like a grim version of the Shadow selves in Persona 4, which, hey, another deeply Jungian series. Another notable one is Abella's Chaugnar being incredibly muscular and masculine, likely representing a repressed (since she doesnt seem particularly worried about it prior to turning) insecurity about her perceived lack of femininity.
This was lovely. I love the shout outs to Worm Girl and MautheDog. Incredible work as always. Congratulations on your work being cited.
Side note: Have you played Who's Lila yet? The game straight up shouts out Jungian Psychology so I'd think it'd be up your alley.
I don’t know exactly why, but I’ve been deeply fascinated by these games.
I can feel my fear and hunger obsession coming back full force…
That ending, yeah, the idea itself of merging by definition must have an opposite, separation, and both must be balanced. A merging where individual disappears in favor of the collective is not ideal, it's a merging done wrong. It's why the Marriage of flesh becomes more of a wretch the more it's practiced, the union of male and female is not supposed to be the literal erasure of sexual differences, and I grow more convinced that it's a resentful selfishness what drives it, the goal of never needing to rely on another human being. For them, needing something your body is incapable of providing on it's own is unacceptable.
Thank you Sir
I'm asexual and antinatalist. I resent the notion that I 'should' bring a baby into this world, just to pay a mortgage, suffer and die. No. I'm done wishing this would all just go up in smoke but I'm also just done.
@@Dunge0n people do more than that
@@Dunge0n Ok
Really fucking happy to see you delve into Fear and Hunger, specially Termina
you go Max, you're awesome, hearing your and Uberboyo's Aion videos gave me flashes of Fear and Hunger for some reason, and now I see why...
So glad you did a shout out for Worm Girl, her Cataclysm:DDA playthroughs are the most soothing post apocalyptic narrative I've ever fallen asleep to.
Watching you'r videos are a delight, I feel like I not only learn more about philosophy than I did at university, but also understand the concepts far better. And I start seeing the patterns elsewhere as well.
This video also reminded me of Hollow Knight, where the Radiance gave "Unity" (possibly similar to the Logic ending in FaH 2) to the moths, but they ultimately abandoned "Unity" for "Higher Thought" when they met the Pale King. The Pale King later used a Vessel (the titular Hollow Knight), a union of opposites (the shell of a Higher Being and a heart of Void), to seal away the Radiance.
There's a lot more nuance to the story but the gist of it has a lot of familiar symbology.
The battle Royale until only one survives to reach the summit of a giant tower reminds me of digital devil saga
I wonder where that idea comes from and what it symbolizes
Would you consider doing an analysis on the Watchmen tie-in comic/animated short film *"Tales of the Black Freighter".*
(Granted you may have to read/watch the comic/film of Watchmen to fully understand it)
Though it is its own story of a castaway sailor losing his sanity and morals trying to get home, the messages, themes & allegories tie into the Watchmen comic/film.
It really shook me.
If I were to do it, I would want to do it while talking about the wider Watchmen story and lore simultaneously. Or, I would do a video on Watchmen first, and then do Tales of the Black Freighter.
@@maxderrat Understandable. Love your videos. ❤️
@@maxderratwould you do a video about the hbo show as well? I'm curious about your opinion about it! (Cheers from Brazil)
Maybe! I've never seen it.
I might have to check it out, Watchmen as a movie still holds up and it's probably my favorite super hero movie. Top 5 for sure!
Another awesome video, thanks for your hard work in bringing these concepts to us.
You and Paul do a lot of work to educate us on alchemy and the occult and we have learned a lot. I hope you feel proud
Max Derrat not understanding that he is a force of nature here on UA-cam and not just one of the random essayists/analysts on the platform is hella funny to me :D
he is just another analyst tho, just because he's good and he is prevalent in your algorithm and bubble doesn't make him a force of nature, 99% of the youtube and general audience have never heard of him, stop thinking the world revolves around your interests, it's not healthy. this is no hate to max, he is a great guy with a cool channel.
@@Myhaay yes because you play fortnite all day and watch Logan Paul's apology video on repeat. go your way now, nothing for you here
@@stoffelthedestroyer3741 that doesn't even make any sense? how do you reach that conclusion? i wouldn't even be able to watch this video if i had that short of an attention span. you literally said nothing about what i wrote and simply insulted me for no reason, did i disrupt your masturbating session to youtube analysts?
What I have gleaned from your videos, writ large, is that when videogame developers want to get occulty/deep, they build a lore based on Jung's theories that I basically describe as "explaining psychology by applying mythology tropes" lol. It all feels secretly real, cuz the psychology it's based on of course feels familiar. And since the psychology reminds us of things we have experienced in our own lives, we assume the rest that doesn't feel familiar, must also be true. And thus the sensation that we're becoming party to deep dark mysteries. Your analyses are always spot on, but, game developers really love the Jungian occulty well lol
another thing to consider on the Conscious vs Subconscious is the other model, in which the conscious mind has two components, the Ego and Superego, The Id obviously matches the Shadow of Sulfur, and Superego being morality and religious beliefs matches well to the divine and kind Allmer, so we are left with the final one, Ego, which represents Logic, 3 guesses whos that part
16:53 but wouldn't that actually be worse? Like, rather than seeking new experiences and solving new problems, people would rather stay in our shared world, so there would not be any true advancement 🤔 after all, in f&h1 nash'rah says something along the lines of "humanity is chaos, not meant to be controlled"; but also this would mean that there's no hope either than joining the sulfur god or everyone ascending and becoming a new god...man this lore really makes you think
That's the thing. Instead of doing something revolutionary, we spend hours upon hours, staring into screens of our internet-connected devices.
. (And a paradoxical self-contradiction)
If humanity were to actually develop the impetus and involvement to really live, rather than be dissociated sycophants, Then they wouldn't need to defer to apathetic distant iconography.
-But instead, Humanity is chaos. Unreasonable. Therefor, They tear through worlds, paradigms, abstract concepts, And ultimately invent a way to have even less responsibility for themselves, Only to spitefully disobey the ideals they made for themselves again. (The outer beings always retreat into the void, because humans freak them out.)
@@Владислав-ы9м5уthats kinda what I was thinking after watching this, Logic in a way has kinda won here - everyone being connected with the internet. Would rather stay in their homes rooted to their devices rather than going outside and doing anything. Doesn't need to be a full on matrix-like reality to achieve this sort of thing.
Holy shit how did i not notice what al-meer casting of his bad things down meant. I PLAYED P4 AND READ SOME OF JUNG AND I DIDN'T NOTICE NOOOOOOOOOO IT WAS SO CLEAR.
This is Very reminiscent of The diamond sutra which states that there is no enlighment and The vows.
Trivia: Perkele is a finnish swear word, sort of the kind of "goddamn!" It is related to the christian devil, and in modern times is thought of as a synonym. Some researchers believe that it was also used as the name for the supreme god in finnish pagan beliefs and pantheon, commonly known as "Ukko" the thunder god.
Haven't played the games, so can't provide any more input or analysis on the name. Of course, could also just be an easter egg kind of thing since so many non-finnish speakers know perkele as a finnish swear word ^^'
Well here's another fun trivia:
Yahweh was likely based off the storm God in caananite pantheon.
That's so cool that the developer watches your videos. Still remember your vids from when you were on HBR.
With the state of Lucid Dreaming.
I don’t find it’s a good union of Unconscious and Conscious. At least from the Conscious perspective.
When I lucid dream, I feel like I lack my higher thought, my creativity. I realise I’m dreaming but don’t actually do much with it. It’s more intense and can be pleasant, but I still lack something.
If you’re interested in occultism a good intro is this podcast called “Know Thyself”. It’s like putting your toe into the water. Caution though, shit gets really scary the deeper you go.
This is really cool, I'm glad Max's videos are bringing these great ideas into public consciousness. I hope more games use his videos as reference points.
Excellent video as always, and how crazy that reference they made to one of your videos in the game, that just goes to show the excellent work you do🤓
Max, love you videos man. I really do feel like learning a lot from watching them. You were also an inspiration for me to start reading Jung's and Freud's work, together with Alan Watts' books
Dude I love the thumbnail!
Special thanks to Indi for her artwork!
Omg thank you!!! ❤❤❤
"Pegrrkele that is how it is pronounced."
As a proud Finn, I can confirm.
That is the way I try to say it from moment starting now. Better than our original way to say it.
Imagine playing Minecraft one day and realizing you were a part of the inspiration for it. Absolutely wild sht
Dangit, after watching this video I now need a "Welcome to the club" sort of meme consisting of game devs who do their own thing depicting at least Hideo Kojima, Koji Igarashi and Yoko Taro all together welcoming Miiro in cause good grief I completely lost it laughing my ass off when I got to the brain bit. On a side note, would be really neat to see ya meet & chat with the fellas from The New Gods' podcast sometime too I think.
> I open video
> video has signalis music
> video good o can just tell
then honestly you have a low bar
@@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120 that’s nuts!
all the lore videos i’ve watched has prepared me for a full comprehension of all the references you’ve laid out, maybe i’ll finally play the game
Interesting. Logic sounds a lot like instrumentality.
GOD DANG IT, ITS JUST "END OF EVANGELION" AGAIN!
I think if anything Fear & Hunger 3 will have to do with some sort of battle between gods like Logic and Sulfur over the state that humanity-between free will and true paradise. As for how that would look, I have no idea 🤷
as a fan of your channel, sir, it's great that your analysis has reached out to other creators and made them an inspiration for their works. I, too, am one of those. Hopefully, one day, I can share my works with you who were inspired by your videos. Thank you for the teachings.
You my have hit the nail on the head as to why i like this series with these two videos. I love the type of horror it visually shows but I knew it was something else, but I didn't know why till now.
11:37 😂 also that so sweet of Miro. You are now apart of the f&h lore.
I love to see how much your channel has grown
how do u hear a g at the start of perkele
@17:44 Nas'hrah is classified as old god, but he is new god.
I think Nas'hrah may be a new god that predates Alllmer, and that's why he was included in the Old Gods. He is a lower case "o" old god, but not an Old God.
Amazing breakdown and explaination of this game and comparison to Aion by Carl Jung. As someone mentioned already in the comment section (which I've said for years). A.I. will be the major collective which leads us to singularity point.
If you are on the radar of indie game devs of that caliber then you are also on the radar of the Department of Defense and probably multiple "breakaway civilizations" congrats brother.
at 1:55 you misspelled, its not the sulfur god, its the wagyu-beef god
Imagine being a (relatively) small time content creator and (directly) inspiring a video game that people will be referencing and inspecting the lore of and the characters included for years to come.
Congrats, friend. You have achieved what many of us can only dream of.
The Sulphur god is basically Piccolo crossed with Castlevania: Lords Of Shadow
OK I beat Termina and now I'm back for the video.
Loved the video. I think Logic isn't purely or 100% in a combined mind state since she still recognizes Olivia and speaks as if she's emotional to be reunited with her. If she truly was just the databank for connecting thought wouldn't Olivia get the same response as the other contestants?
I originally questioned the reason why the logic project would be completed during the festival.
Of course logic's symbol is vinushka's with a dash through it (the killing of vinushka possibly symbolism when we abandoned nature we moved to technology) So I had assumed rher was only tacked on.
But this video made me realize Rher's festival was the perfect point in time because his dominion is the mind and *dreams*. With logic prioritizing the unconscious and conscious for union.
I do hope you cover moonscorching, I am aware it would be similar to the union analysis you used, but I would like to see your interpretation of each moonscorch and what it means for each character.
Carl Young, I wanna be forever Youuuuung.
Young young young.
Now try pronouncing Jung's name correctly.
Gratz dude. Must be a great feeling to inspire something so dark and horrifying like Termina =p
I wish I could convey how hard my jaw dropped watching this. I LOOOOVE your videos on Funger so much and it's so cool how full circle this became!!
EDIT: I totally made comparisons to Lain and Logic as well omg!!! I'm so excited someone is finally talking about it too
In every video this guy has "the most shocking discovery of my youtube career".
I cant even say 1 perkelee correctly so kudos to you
edit: shout out to your Aion series.
I wish AAA games could be as deep as Fear & Hunger has delivered here. I mean there's so much to talk about or even contemplate here. The fact that this game alone deals with the atrocities of mankind, and how the town itself has been completely lifeless due to the effects of the war. How this town alone worships a God known as the Sulfur God, and how his presence alone effected this entire city of Termina.
Im rather new to fear&hunger just watching gameplay of the most famous moments and small lore dumps here an there and I must say im really grateful for your video alongside these comments really helped me understand alot of the themes and knowledge behind the game. Thanks man
Basically both endings are canon.
This video made me happy to know that your videos influenced someone’s art
I love these games. And your work. Haven’t played these enough to watch this, very excited to watch.
Props for learning how to say a lot of the names and terms. Being a pretty much unvoiced game, I had no idea even the town name wasn’t pronounced like pre-heave-el
almost didn't click because of the thumbnail and title but I'm glad I did, great video!
I've been learning a lot about Yoga and Indian philosophy recently and I think you would find some of their concepts very fascinating. One of the main differences is that the Yogis did not try to understand the human mind by observing others, but by directing their focus deeply within themselves and exploring every possible nook of their psyche.
There are of course also plenty of teachings about the wholeness of body and mind and transcendence.
Man, this video drops just when I grasp enough about Jungian psychology to actually understand the subject and what you're talking about. It's been a wild ride when I dropped into a rabbit hole last summer comparing Jungian concepts to plot elements in a less well known PS2 game (with ChatGPT as I knew jack about Jung at that point). What I discovered was... puzzling at first, and pieces kept falling into place and by the end I was convinced that the writer has to have taken concepts from Jungian psychology. That I'm willing to bet money on.
I am currently reading "hard boiled wonderland and the end of the world" by haruki murakami and I really love the atmosphere of the book even tho its hard to determine what are the themes and what is it all about in the end but at some point the main character is deprived of his shadow and your explanation of the shadow was very interesting and enlightning regarding this book and what was the whole purpose of the shadow existence
1 minute into the video and I already know that this is a masterpiece
I've been waiting for this video! It didn't disappoint!
That has to be the highlight of a youtube/gamer career to find out the creator of a game drew inspiration from your work
The occult references are pretty disturbing, but the regular references are pretty cool
Reminds you that this game is basically Majora's Mask for depressed adults 😅
I was not expecting that plot twist. That's pretty meta.
12:08, 14:58 So if I lucid dream long enough I can achieve "the self"?
Nobody has brought it up, but where didntoy get that art of Perkele??
Researching the lore just to discover you are a part of it, absolutely incredible.
8:15 what do you think about the black man saying that maybe the shadow overpower all mer
Missed you Max you're finally back in my feed
I think that becoming gods through technology is the epitome of biblical idolatry. It's an easy path to salvation that depends entirely on another object and removes any effort to change and be better. No matter how Logic, or real world AI, can come close to divinity, they are not the real thing, and will thus inevitably fail.
Hows it feel to know you helped inspire one of the most gnosis driven stories we've been blessed with to date? Congrats man. Your work potentially helped drive another down his path.
Now it suddenly makes sense to me why the Sulfur God looks like a human without the skin, if it is indeed the shadow, hidden side of humanity.
It looks like what is left of a human (the dark, hidden inside) without the part that is usually visible (the skin, hair, eyes).
The answer to your last question will be different for each person. Not all people can handle enlightenment. Not all can become a divine singular. Or even just divine. For these being a cog in a greater machine is a comfort. So just as Logic is not the answer for everyone so too is enlightenment or ascension not for everyone. Perhaps that will be what gets explored in the next Funger. How Logic was not the answer that was needed and what that has brought into being.
Something interesting I noticed is that this extends even further than you explored in this video. The person who becomes Logic, Reila, similarly mirrors Alll-Mer in certain ways. Namely, and the wording is very interesting here, her sister Olivia possesses the Shadowed Soul. Olivia has the most unique reaction of any contestant to equipping a firearm for the first time, feeling like it makes her powerful. In Olivia's backstory, we learn Reila had a relationship with a college professor who turned out to be a member of the anti-Bremen resistance group, and this is how Reila is recruited to their cause. Olivia also specifically has the choice in her background to be jealous of this relationship and attempt to break them up or "steal her man away". Reila is eventually captured by the Bremen Empire (also similar to Le'Garde's imprisonment by the Kingdom of Rondon), but her story eventually leads her to Prehevil where she puts herself in Logic so that Kaiser can't, thus essentially sacrificing her life, humanity, and connection to her family, casting it away, to become an Ascended God. I feel like there's something here, but like most things in this game series it's done mostly by subtext rather than outright exposition, but I found it interesting nonetheless.
Man I'm so glad this is a game and a fictional work and this is not happening and could never happen in real life am I right fellas? Ahahaha
I mean people preferring a digital world to reality? Losing individuality? Becoming cut off from the ancient wisdom of their collective unconscious?
Couldn't happen for real. Never ever.
lol I literally beat Fear and Hunger two days ago and just started Termina yesterday. Talk about fantastic timing.