The consent conversation...needs some work 😬| Khadija Mbowe
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- Get into some permission, pleasure, and sensual self exploration with the LELO IDA Wave! 😏lelo.to/Khadij...
my links:
Instagram, Tiktok, Twitter
@khadija.mbowe
Patreon: / khadijambowe
Podcast: theleftovermil...
booking: khadija@sparkmedia.la
Books
Re-thinking Sex- Chirstine Emba
All about Love- bell hooks
The Right to Sex: Feminism in the Twenty-First Century- Amia Srinivasan
Permission to feel- Marc Brackett
Had it coming- Robyn Doolitte (this is the only one I haven’t read)
Some Reads
Consent at Every Age
www.gse.harvar...
SlutWalking gets rolling after cop's loose talk about provocative clothing
www.theguardia...
Aziz Ansari and the Paradox of ‘No’
www.theatlanti...
I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life
babe.net/2018/...
‘No means no’ to ‘yes means yes’: How our language around sexual consent has changed
www.washington...
MeToo movement
en.wikipedia.o...
The Dangerous Insufficiency of ‘No Means No’
www.theatlanti...
Leading with Empathy: Tarana Burke and the Making of the Me Too Movement
www.casesolved...
No Means No
csaonline.ca/c...
The truth about false assault accusations by women
www.bbc.com/ne...
Informed Consent
www.ama-assn.o...
The History Behind Sexual Consent Policies
www.npr.org/20...
Farrah Kahn
www.torontomu....
A Socialist, Feminist, and Transgender Analysis of “Sex Work”
/ a-socialist-feminist-a...
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AD Music
Opportunity Walks by Kevin MacLeod
Link: incompetech.fi....
License: creativecommons....
The rumors are true...I'm on Satan's favortie app: twitter.com/khadijambowe
I ain't even get a follow back 🥲
This video makes me feel normal. I can't read signals at all. When I asked my partner if she wanted to be with me, she kissed me for what seemed like forever. I told her that I still need a yes or no answer.
Instantly followed!!
Twitter can be toxic, sure-but so can life.
As in, all of it.
That definitely does not mean that good people with good intentions should not participate.
Thank you Khadija for contributing to the Twitterverse!
I find Twitter can be useful in tracking news and events quickly, and it can also be a way to support each other and lift each other up.
yay 🤩
Hey Khadija! I really enjoyed watching your video! There’s a really cool book by French feminist philosopher Geneviève Fraisse on consent, and it says exactly that we should focus more on desire rather than the mere act of consent. It’s very well documented and I recommend it a lot. I haven’t found the English translation cause I read it in Spanish, but in French it’s called Du consentement
I learned that at 20, going over someone's house that is a male = consent in their minds. Even if they are just friends. 😐 And when I retell the story, the response is "why did you go over there".
I was having this same thought. It's as if existing in a female body in a space alone with a man means you are asking to be sexually assaulted. I think about all the derogatory comments made about the women that Bill Cosby assaulted. From both men and women. Like what did those women expect to happen, meeting a man alone in his hotel room. Assumption being that they were down to fuck, instead of seeking career guidance from a respected entertainer.
This needs to be talked about more!
I think two things can be true. As if you go to a steakhouse and you order chicken, that's weird but it doesn't mean you can't order chicken at a steakhouse. I maintain that rule myself but I also completely hold the right to not engage in activity when I don't want to. I think it's fair to say that two things can be true and one is not weighted more or less than the other
Dude. For real. 🤍 for you
@@politicomonsoon I don’t think that both things can be true. Bc from what it sounds like is that the friend became friends with op with the intention of it turning into something else. I feel the friend did not view op as a friend but an a person for their pleasure without consideration to what op wanted/did not want.
Something that bothers me is how for so many people, consent just means getting a "yes" so that way they can do whatever they want. To them, consent is literally just getting a "yes", regardless of the context. They will pressure others, coerce others, manipulate others...etc if it means getting that yes so they can proceed to do whatever they want regardless of how the other person feels.
Consent should be about making sure the other person knows whats going on, knows what yall are gonna be doing, and without any sort of pressure or coercion agrees to do it because they want to do it. If you have to manipulate or trick people into saying yes then that yes is meaningless. Consent isnt something you should feel like you're "getting away with".
ABSOLUTELY
That last sentence is especially true! Well said
This is what bothered me about the Louis CK story. From his own accounts and the accusers’, it sounds like he did actually ask first, but then either went ahead without waiting for an answer, or got a “hahaha okay” but didn’t stop when they were like “oh my god I thought you were kidding, stop it!”. Which suggests he only viewed asking for consent as an annoying little thing you quickly pay lip service to so you don’t feel like an abuser.
I totally agree with you and they seem to think that one yes is all they need and that the other person can not withdraw their consent once they have forced that one yes, and that no mean yes bull boils my blood
This ^^ And consent is also asking midway of doing things, like intercourse. Just cause a person consents to intercourse, doesn't mean they want to be touched a certain way, or want their shirt on or whatever to make them comfortable
I love when people ask others midway of things for consent, even if it's "small" like asking if they can touch their partner(s) a certain way it's just so sweet :((
Even in 2022 sexual consent is still a radical idea in our culture
It'll always be until it isn't
its honesty ridiculous how many fundamental aspects of human interactions aren't firmly and unambiguously established in the collective (un)consciousness yet and still.
That's because there's over a thousand years of sexual disfunction that's never been properly examined and has been perpetuated. People are finally getting sick and tired of the abuses of perceived power and relearning how to get their power back.
Here is a list of things that, as a cis man with a lower than average sex-drive, I have had to learn the hard way through personal experience over the past 2 decades because no one in my life ever taught me anything different:
1. It is possible for a guy to not want to have sex.
2. It is possible for a guy to not want to have sex even with someone he is actively attracted to.
3. It is possible for a guy to not want to have sex even if he is physically aroused.
4. It is possible for a guy to be aroused, and want to masturbate, but not have sex.
5. It is possible for a guy to want to have sex, and then change his mind halfway through.
6. It is possible for a woman to have her self esteem damaged and her feelings deeply hurt when her male partner doesn't want to have sex with her because she has spent her whole life being told that all guys are ravenous horn-dogs who will take ANY opportunity to enthusiastically rail any girl they are attracted to, and thus is forced to conclude that her partner finds her deeply unattractive even when that couldn't be farther from the truth.
7. It is possible for a guy to essentially pressure himself into obligatory intercourse with his consenting partner because he has spent his whole life being told that is what he is supposed to want.
All of these are things I have personally experienced. My life could have been drastically improved in so many ways if everyone just talked about this more, and more often, and started the conversation in a structured and careful way at a young age and continued it throughout all stages of social and physical development.
💜
Omg I hope Khadija pins this post! I'm not sure if you know how many people need to hear this list. Thank you so much for your vulnerability and transparency. I ("we" I'm sure) appreciate you ❤️
Thank you for sharing such personal advices to us🙌🏾‼️
Wow! Thank you this is very informative and reassuring.
very very well put. slay.
AMAB here, and yes the whole "boys will be boys" narrative always struck something within me. It never felt right for a plethora of reasons
Whenever I hear it I think “ok, so why can’t “boy” mean something else? Boys will be… nice!”
@@rosamy2017 Not just that they use the same excuse for men like " men will always be men" its like it doesn't help especially when women say that. It's annoying.
Being AMAB myself, I eventually realized that my reaction to "boys will be boys" was not only outrage at the behavior that the narratives excuses, but also personal offense at the way that it demeans and debases men. Because if somebody insists that "boys will be boys" as a reason for not holding men responsible for our actions, they're really saying that "boys will be boys, *and that's all they can be*."
So in making excuses for men, the narrative supposes that we are each no more than just our gender. But we are whole people, and we should be insulted by the implication that we are on some level interchangeable with any other boy. Plus, when somebody says "boys will be boys," their definition of "boy" is usually "immature, predatory animal that should be mothered and coddled its whole life" -- which is not something that I enjoy being compared to.
Sorry, but I’m genuinely unaware and curious what does “AMAB” stand for or mean?
@@forevernatalyn assigned male at birth
When men are taught to view women as sex objects that exist for their pleasure and view sex with women as something they do TO you and not WITH you, it leads to not caring about your consent and normalizing sexual assault as something that men just do.
I truly believe there are a lot of men who have assaulted women and genuinely don’t understand what they’ve done wrong because these things are treated so normal. I’ve even seen this in my own life.
Edit: Just so this is clear, they may have not seen the problems within their actions but that is not to imply they innocently raped someone. Doing so and having no remorse or care about what they did due to not seeing women as human or caring about consent is deeply violent and misogynistic. I don’t want the wording I used to overlook that.
This!!
Actually while these men may not realize what they’re doing can be classified as rape or assault however they understand that they’re causing harm. They just don’t care and will do a bunch of mental gymnastics to avoid accountability. It’s a real phenomenon that researchers of abusers have discovered. Most if not all abusers never will describe their actions as abuse. I guess what I’m saying it’s not a lack of education issue here it’s moreso the lack of empathy and ego that prevents male abusers from admitting fault
@@Princess-rb9yd I agree. There have been plenty of times where someone will have a conversation about what consent is and what would count as assault and Ive seen men get ridiculously angry and defensive about the fact their being called rapist, not at the fact they raped someone before. Not seeing an entire group of people as human or as just sex objects will really lead to a lack of compassion, empathy or understanding of this group. You wouldn’t be a person with feelings and thoughts you would just be there for their sexual consumption.
I don’t really think it’s a lack of education but more just rape culture/misogyny making it to where the mens violent behavior towards women doesn’t get acknowledged as violent bc the behavior is seen as natural or normal. The lack of empathy would still need to be there though.
@@Princess-rb9yd oh yeah, they know on some level that they're doing horrible things, they just don't examine it on purpose
Women are taught that men are money bags... See how I over generalized all women as gold diggers? How did that feel? Not good? Great! Now you know how bs your comment sounds.
I think an idea of "go hug/kiss your uncle/aunt" as threatening to further understanding of consent is underrated. I was so uncomfortable as a child to hug or kiss some relative I barely knew, but it was almost a ritual. I even didn't know if that person initially wanted to have a hug, but I was told that it's rude if I didn't do it. Told by someone else (my parents), like the 3rd party! And of course it is a perfect soil for some horrible ideas about having an "obligatory sex". Khadija's idea of educating children AND adults is so on point!
Yes! I was in my thirties before I learned from a Tumblr post that I could decline hugs, and that I should ask if someone wants one, and it's important to give kids the choice, too. I immediately started asking my niece if she wanted hugs and told everyone in our family, and speaking up if someone told her "go hug Grandma goodbye" - and it's had such a positive impact! And now she runs up and ASKS me. 🥰
Yep. I refuse all affection ordered by another adult. If a kid doesn't want to hug me, it's normally because they don't remember me, they're tired, etc. I don't pretend to be hurt. I don't beg. I just treat them well and normally that hug gets earned when they trust me and want to show me affection before they leave. I at least get a high five which means I've made a new little friend. That feels way better than them doing it because their parent yelled at them.
When my brother was a skinny funny looking kid he used to hide under our parents bed whenever family and friends that where too tactile, with hugs and kisses, visited us. It was big bed with little space underneath so the adults couldn't get to him. He was always a very non tactile person, even with people he likes, and that's okay.
Today he's a big man, got some muscle in him so no ones dare to force anything on him lol
I am from Portugal and the greeting culture is so tiring to me, amongst other things but that is more of a me thing. Time and time again I was pressured by adults, even to this day, to kiss people on the cheeks as an hello or goodbye. If I didn't want to do that? Then certaintly I must at least hug them! Apparently a wave is too "impersonal".
Since I grew up like that once I moved and started meeting the "family friends" that live in a new country I tried my hardest to not be pressure into it. They either get a wave or a verbal hello if I don't feel like it. I have also tried my hardest to showcase, especially to younger kids I know, that it's alright to refuse that. I don't ask for them to kiss or hug me. I tell them to greet me. Is that a wave, an hello or even just a nod? That is okay acknowledge that I said hello and I am cool with that.
The amount of times I have seen a kid that was born where I live currently but is raised by Portuguese parents having to go through the same exact thing. "Oh won't you say hello to [my mom's name]". Forcing this 12 year old kid to kiss an full adult cheek. The adult in question wasn't much better as she employed the common tactic of "pretending to be sad due to not getting a hug or a kiss".
Rambling done, sorry for the wall of text. Thank you for taking time out of your day to read this mess.
I was a very very affectionate child, but when I got to around 9 or 10, I just didn't want to do that anymore. My mom was so unhappy about this, and told me I was being inconsiderate. She told me I was hurting people I love by not hugging them, and she still does. I've told her I don't want to anymore, but she still doesn't listen.
Obligatory sex is entirely why it took me a decade to finally come to terms with being asexual. I thought that because I had sex in relationships I could not be ace, but I was only having sex because it was so normalized and expected. I was never given the alternative option of choosing no. This is why I am so adamant about normalizing asexuality and not letting it be shrugged off as not as important of a sexuality because a lot of us, especially boy/men, are told they have to want sex to be happy and it is expected in any romantic relationship. Having asexuality as a normalized concept to developing teens is SO IMPORTANT to avoid so much pain and trauma.
I’m going trough the same process (and dipping my toe in the aromantic spectrum too). It is difficult I find, to see what is ‘’me’’ and what is ‘’because of social pressure ‘’.
I 100% agree!
@@anne8663 Yes, I agree. It is very difficult to peel back the layers of what you are told you are supposed to be and find out who you actually are. The entire decade it took me to come to terms with being ace I knew someone was different and going on and I would spend some time trying to figure it out but societal norms and people in my life always overpowered my individual feelings and thoughts. I wish you the best of luck figuring out who you are, it is a difficult but worthwhile process.
@@TinyGhosty So glad you commented this because I'm going through the same thing too! As a little kid and I'm 19 now, my family is judgmental and society expects so much from you even making you feel bad for being different not fitting in with these standards. I was always told that I needed to have sex and I needed to be into men so I never actually had time to actually explore and see what I liked which is very damaging to me now, I can read, talk, think, watch a movie with sex scenes and even like to pleasure myself but do I want to actually engage in sexual acts with anyone? No, then I found out I'm aegosexual.
@@TinyGhosty It is comforting knowing I am not alone feeling like this. Thank you a lot for your kind words!
I’m kinda going through the same situation, I feel like I still need to figure myself out to put the label of asexual on myself but it’s so frustrating telling others that I might not be interested in sex and the only response I would get would be “oh you just haven’t found the one yet” or “youre too young to decide that” it feels so invalidating and I begin second guessing myself
The uncle example you gave hit way to close to home.
Short Story: Parents, please don't make your kids hug people, even family.
Long story: Had an uncle who would hug me and my siblings for super long, rub up and down our sides and kiss the afab people's necks sometimes. He also grabbed my sisters butt at my older brothers wedding "as a joke" 🤮🤮🤮
He would also take A LOT of pictures of the kids, especially while swimming or the very little kids in the bath, and even of random young girls when we would go to the beach with the family.
At about 16, I had enough. I had tried multiple times to get him to stop giving me his long hugs and taking pictures of me. I told him that I don't like hugging or having pictures taken of me (not true in all context, but absolutely true for him) and I told my very unhelpful father that if he didn't help enforce the boundaries, I would start refusing any visitation with him.
The amount of times I had been forced to hug him "Because he's your uncle" still makes my skin crawl if I think about it too long.
It took me until I was 16 to stand up for my bodily autonomy, but even that makes me lucky because a lot of people never get that opportunity.
I read your comment and I'm kinda seething rn.
I'm sorry it happened to you and your siblings.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately its way too common of an experience 🥲 I have somewhat of a similar experience growing up. Whilst my uncles didn't go as far as yours, they still made me incredibly uncomfortable with their slightly too long hugs with their hands just a little too low on my back. Constantly being told I needed to hug my male extended family members even when I didn't want too or didn’t actually know them well. When telling my parents I don't feel comfortable hugging my mums 3rd cousins, uncles, brother or whatever just because he's technically family, they just couldn't understand why. I don't know if this is a thing specific to the Polish side of my family but I've also seen it in other Polish circles, but for some reason I find many middle-aged Polish men just have an extra dose of audacity, where they feel its perfectly fine to compliment young girls appearances or jokingly flirt with them, even in front of the parents. It makes me so uncomfortable and now when I see them acting the same way to my younger cousins, I always try and step in if they don't accept her refusal of their hug.
The worst moment I can recall was when one of my uncles (also my godfather) insisted that I owed him a one on one dinner when I turned 18. No matter how hard I fought it with my parents they still made me go. The idea of a fresh 18 year old girl being forced to have a sit down dinner with a 50 something year old man whom she is not close with just because I was his god daughter was disturbing to me. I did not owe him anything, he hadn't put in much effort to be close to me and I had not returned it either but suddenly I must dress up nicely and go to a restaurant for dinner with him. To make it worse, he essentially (whether as a joke or not, I'm not sure) tried to black mail me into this dinner by telling me he would stop giving me money (which he would on my birthday and Christmas) unless I out in the effort to have dinner with him. It was the most uncomfortable 2 hours of my life.
It's been a few years now and this behaviour has died off, I think they caught on to my discomfort FINALLY.
It's sad to see that the lines of consent are still either ignored or blurred in the eyes of so many men, even within family relationships.
It's pathetic that many of these so-called family members (parents especially) know who all of the family perverts are and subject their children to these filthy bastards and bitches. I think that the best way to help stop the madness is openly address the issue and give full details and even state examples of other people who have spoken about the perverts. You may have a few people angry with you and not talking to you...usually for a while or forever, but at least you took ALL of your power back.
what the actual fuck. solidarity for you, this is so unbelievably fucked up
god this happened with me and my grandpa. to make a long and terrible story very short: me too. massively huge kudos to you for standing up for your bodily rights, especially when you were still so young, and i truly admire you for putting your foot down like that. though i wish so many of us didnt have to be the sole protectors of our bodies in the first place. im full of anger and feelings of solidarity for you and your siblings, and for anyone else in the world this has happened to 🤝💞💞
As a man, the notion of being characterized as a sex hungry fool who will go to absurd lengths to obtain sex simply because of the gender that was assigned to me at birth has always been immensely off-putting (Rather hurtful actually). Doubly so as a black man because, as FD Signifier so eloquently put in his most recent video, we're *perceived* to be these inherently lustful creatures born for sex. Because of the way this mindset proliferates, we aren't often given an avenue for exploration outside of that hypersexuality. And it's demoralizing to be viewed as such by society, especially by the folks in your own community.
Whenever I listen to a black podcast and they respond to story of a black dude doing something stupid for or because of sex and the hosts respond "Oh, of course he would. He's a nigga! What else would you expect?", I get tight, not just for myself but for the black boys (or children socialized as boys) who are coming up now and being confronted with that same social stigma. I know the sort of pain that leads to and I hate the thought of kids my cousin's age enduring the same inner turmoil I went through as a black kid. People make it out to seem as if black male hypersexuality is as certain as gravity and it's so upsetting because it so often leads to relentless pain. One day, I hope we can view these attributes as ones we were socialized with rather than something inherent to our nature. Thank you so much, to you and F.D, for pushing this conversation forward.
I watched that video by FD and it was so enlightening. His channel is golden.
I agree that FD Signifier is another brilliant creator who uses his channel to educate about healthy masculinity.
I get the strong (and I think, sometimes intentional but in a real and natural way) vibe that his intended audience is young black men, and that he sometimes seems surprised when he mentions he has seen he has broader appeal than what he thought.
However, I definitely think healthy messages and being open to changing your views based on new information are both beneficial to everybody, though sadly not everyone is receptive to healthy messages and some seek content that is more self-serving and short-term-gratifying rather than content that truly helps themselves and others grow and improve themselves and the world around them.
I don’t expect amazing creators to change the world alone, though I do hope they influence all of us to keep striving toward an excellent future of supporting each other and the world while preventing harm to each other and the world.
@@SDBartel definitely. His views on manhood are pretty universal and can help people of other ethnicity aswell.
Sex* not gender assigned at birth
you’re definitely right. but as a black woman who was assaulted many times by black men, we should understand that these stigmas won’t go away unless the behavior is too
in the asexual community, when talking about compulsory sexuality, there are also situations where you were coerced, but not necessarily by your sexual partner. it's more of a societal issue. like you think you're supposed to be having sex or at least want to because that's what the world tells you, so you just kind of force yourself.
I honestly struggle with this so much. My first time was definitely informed by societal coercion rather than coercion from my partner. But with the second time it's honestly unclear precisely how I felt coerced into it. I definitely didn't want it but I still let him push me in that direction. And it's hard to dissect. Because I did hesitate several times but when I finally put my foot down because it hurt it did stop so like. He did try respect consent. So idk
I was SAssaulted by a man I went on a date with- I went over to meet him at his house (I was homeschooled , so I was NOT experienced enough to know the implications, and feeling the need to explain this up front is probably saying something on its own), but I was literally told “it’s not SA because you willingly went to his house”. I was automatically the recipient of the responsibility for this assault. And this lead me to accept getting SA’ed repeatedly because this taught me SA doesn’t count if it’s from someone you chose to see.
So thank you for having this conversation, I’m so thankful someone is talking about this. Hopefully this will help others who may be very naive like myself avoid these dangers. I appreciate your voice!!
That's awful I'm sorry that happened. I had the same thing happen to me basically. I was also told repeatedly "I made a choice" to be around him as if that made it my fault somehow. People don't chose to be sexually assaulted.
@@alexthompson2466 Thank you for your compassion and being vulnerable, I’m so sorry that happened to you too. We persist 🫶🏻
So as a cis straight man I have had some weird interactions around consent. I am terrified of making a woman or anyone feel uncomfortable so whenever I want to do anything I always just ask out loud in plain words like "can I kiss you?" and I can not express how many women have laughed at me for asking, or tried to explain to me that I'm just supposed to somehow tell that they wanted to and leaned in. One woman's exact words were "I would have if you hadn't asked" (she was actually very cool and we still ended up making out later and she even expressed a few days after that she thought about it and appreciated me asking first). I don't really have a point here but it's always been a really confusing thing that happens pretty consistantly the first time I kiss a woman. But also I refuse to not ask because the one time I don't is going to be the time she didn't want to.
you were right to ask and your reasoning is correct. Even if those women didnt want you to ask, how the hell are you supposed to know if they wanted a kiss or not? What if they didnt and you kissed them anyway and then both of your nights are ruined?
Unfortunately this issue with lack of respect for consent is something that all genders perpetuate in different ways. Laughing at people who ask for consent is a harmful thing, and im glad at least one of those girls thought about it and realized that you actually didnt do anything wrong. I think with time, as more people explicitly ask for consent and are careful about it, it'll be more normalized and so wont feel out of place.
This is what should be the case all the time and I'm happy some people finally get it, after so many not.
I know it sucks sometimes, but you've got the right idea. Not only are you making sure to treat people well, which is good and important, but you're setting yourself up for better intimacy. Women who expect you to read their mind or, worse, expect you to keep going if they resist (this happened to a friend of mine and he cut thinks off right away), aren't really mature enough to have good, fulfilling, safe sex. They need to unpack that and learn to communicate. Either they'll learn that from having a partner who's smart about consent or they'll select themselves out of that kind of relationship with you. Conversely, women who appreciate your care for their well-being and their agency will be better partners and more likely to treat you the same.
Some women have been taught by films, society etc etc that its sexy if a man can just read her mind / body language in the heat of the moment. In the films men start kissing and then the two characters rip their clothes off each other OR given the context and timing etc just have a sweet end of date kiss. It has been normalised for many women that that is 'hot' .. problem is it's not, it just normalised what men think / hope women would respond like if they just went for it.. most films are made by men, especially old films.. and girls just like boys mostly learn how to act from films (as many parents dont truly teach consent..) some women have been brainwashed that men should just be able to read their mood / body language and if they're manly theyll know the right moment.. but this is very dangerous territory, one time a guy will read the mood wrong purposefully or not and then it wont be so fun anymore.. consent is seen as more sexy now but itll take time to fully unbrainwash some women and men out of these dangerous ideas.. please keep going you're doing good in the world, remind them that consent is not lame its sexy and respectful..
@@anz10 I hear what you're saying, but equally have been in the situation where a guy kept asking me permission for everything like "can I kiss you" and tbh it made my pussy dry up. On an intellectual level I appreciated the concept behind it- he wanted to be sure I consent- but on a sexual level, it killed the buzz for me. Maybe part of the buzz of a sensual encounter is "where will this go" "what will he do now" (speaking personally of course). I am not wanting to downplay the importance of consent, it is very crucial, but I also feel like it's not the worst thing in the world for someone to try kiss you and you just stop then and say "uh I'm good thanks". Or someone to drift their hands downwards and that drifting hand to be caught and you can say "no thanks" "not down there" "hands stay above the waist" or whatever. Idk maybe my desires are just the product of trauma/society/etc. I feel sensual encounters are a bit like a dance when they're good, and the best dances are instinctual and responsive to each dancer's body motions.
"I used to love Pocahontas and then I found out,"
Is a crazy relatable statement oh my gosh
The topic of consent is often multifaceted and much more nuance than just a "No" or "yes" which often ignores the problem of coercion and power dynamics. People can emotionally and financially manipulate people into having sex with them which is a form of rape we neglect to talk about.
This includes bosses asking for "sexual favors" for a promotion or withholding love from a partner unless they provide you with sex. Oversimplifying consent makes it a lot easier for our society and legal system to create loopholes for rapist and sexual assaulters to negate responsibility for their actions.
Your so right.
the legal allowance for sexual assault and rape is so real. And it's an international issue. Apparently in Denmark rape is only classified as so if it is determine that you could not physically defend yourself. Im not dansk myself so idk all the ins and outs so idk who makes the decision that the victim was able to physically defend themselves but placing blame of stopping rape onto the victim shouldn't be included in the law at all.
@@elleofhearts8471 That is terrible! Also how can you determine whether or not a person could defend themselves? I feel that will lead to a lot of assumptions. Regardless, if someone was robbed they were still robbed even if they could've "stopped it".
I feel like this will also lead to a lot of female rapist to get away with rape since men are widely considered to be stronger than women. Rape is more than just physically forcing someone in alley way and we need to talk about other forms of sexual assault and rape.
@@mercury6284 thats what I want to know! thats so blatantly having the legal system stacked against victims of sexual violence on an institutional level. And you just know people with bigger bodies, more developed bodies, and have bodies that are perceived as threatening such as racialized poc are going to get the worst of it. And that is so deeply embedded into that legal definition of a legitimate victim and legitimate instance of sexual violence. Along with the belief that sexual victimhood is validated based on victim response to it during the fact. its as if to say:
"you can definitely stop your own sexual victimhood if you try hard enough and if you dont try hard enough to the satisfaction of the arbiters of that legal definition (idk who determines it, idk a whole lot about the Danish legal system), then nothing wrong occurred" (or at least refusal to call sexual violence by its name and possibly downgrading it to being a "misunderstanding" by someone who "should've been physically capable" of stopping their own victimization as defined by the opinion of your body and physical capability of someone other than yourself) . Its giving victims the least amount of control over the narrative and their own sexual justice.
Whats equally disturbing here is this divorcing of the body and mind in the course of sexual violence. Theres no room allotted for the mental responses or physical manifestation one may have to the realization of whats happening or the inability to know how to respond. "Freezing up" is something that can happen, and that legal definition leaves no allowance for that. it holds victims to the standard of pushing past their involuntary mental response to sexual violence to respond physically in order to prove their status as a legitimate victim while disregarding the fact that consent is not being mutually exchanged. if youre mind freezes, so does your body, even if you "look fine" from someone else's perspective. Thats a second layer of hell they're putting victims through.
Why is it so hard to place wrongdoing on the person doing the assaulting? what is so hard to understand about "if you dont r+pe people, r+pe will not occur"? what is it with this desire to narrowly define what sexual violence is and creating a narrowly defined victim profile? its deliberately trying to provide legal protection and consequences to the least amount of people as possible. It so clearly sends the message that as a society youre ok with sexual violence and dont want to deal with it on an institutional level.
its so obvious that states around the world dont care about sexual violence let alone trying to prevent it in the first place.
@@elleofhearts8471 Yeah that is so true. Victims have many different responses to rape, like freezing, and we shouldn't take silence as a yes. Involuntary bodily responses also doesn't excuse rape. If a guy gets an erection (which is a natural reaction to stimulation) it is still rape! If a girl gets wet or aroused, it is still rape. If they verbally told you no or didn't consent to the act and you still continue to force yourself on them, it is rape. Point-blank🙌.
"Pleasure for all"
Oh gawd, now they're gonna say consent is socialism.....
Looool
Tbh, socialism doesn’t seem too bad of a system than what we have now 😌
@@hermionesvillage agreed. I was talking about the ole fox news talking points. I could hear Tucker Carlson in my head "Sex should be socialist? Equal sex for everyone? Is this what they want now, all sex all the time with all the people?"
I giggle tremendously just imagining it. He really is unintentionally hilarious even while being terrifying 😅
😂
i would love to have/hear a consent conversation that is specifically in the context of gay men, because that socialization of "boys are mindless horn dogs" doesn't just go away once you discover you're gay lol, and gay men friends of mine have had their consent breached to various degrees from obligatory s-- to much worse
Oooooo yes that would be fascinating to me
Jumping the gun here, but this reminds me of a college party scene in Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt (writers were mocking the emphasis on clear verbal consent). It’s frightening that some think being a little extra cautious to prevent rape is something to laugh about or deride
Omg yeah I've seen this topic be joked about far too many times before and it's always so uncalled for. Why clear consent given through communication is so ridiculous, why is that funny or something to be embarrassed about?!. It's very disturbing to me the way some people (a lot) treat this topic.
Right?! Like you'll find men that are always complaining about how women are so hard to understand and make no sense, yet make fun of giving clear, verbal consent because they're so sure in their ability to read that a woman wants sex...WITHOUT her saying anything??? Make it make sense.
"Sometimes you crank that soulja boy and sometimes that soulja boy cranks you." Philosopher and Scholar - Khadijda Mbowe
I’ll say that as a man it isn’t just an extreme overemphasis on sex (and more specifically, sexual dominance) that we’re expected to uphold. When you’re told the only appropriate way of expressing love is through sex, that permanently damages a man’s ability to express love and affection in any other way. We’re actively encouraged to dismiss and belittle women’s expressions of love. This starts almost immediately, with boys being conditioned to turn their nose up at anything remotely “feminine”, from the notebook to, say, crying. This leaves young, impressionable boys with the only in to the adult world being through exploitative pornography and depictions of women in “masculine” media being nothing but objects for the pleasure of men. I hate to say it, but I feel like the only way to combat rape culture is for men themselves to find some Jordan Peterson-esque redpilled “intellectual” movement repackaging old feminist ideas. Men, the way they are now, are not going to listen to women.
"Men, the way they are now, are not going to listen to women" - THIS
thank you for sharing and taking the time to write up the whole comment too - just that ending really struck the chord. Kuncan Dunster's youtube video about male youtubers making commentary on alpha male content touched on that point (great video)
Ayyy hope you've heard of F.D signifier, dude is exactly what you said in your last line. Gives fantastic insights on masculinity and what it means in an equitable society, amazing and intelligent breadtuber.
And you're right, men cannot see women as human in the same capacity as to listen and derive insight from.
"When you're told they're only way to express love it through sex" what do you mean by this, what other methods are we missing out on?
@@kinganarkzie Platonic affection, talking honestly with others, doing things together (especially with women/AFABs) without an agenda attached, a whole wide range of bonding over hobbies, caretaking... It seems like guys/AMABs miss out on a lot.
Take the whole entire concept of friendzoning, which is based on two wildly off assumptions. The obvious one is being owed romantic/sexual feelings for being nice, but the other is that friendship is less than which is completely untrue. My close friends are so far the best any kind of relationship I've ever had.
@@milsthebard1085 thank you taking the time to explain, I feel this must be a cultural thing though because its standard where I'm from to do stuff like what you mentioned, it honestly just sounds like having a friend unless I'm misunderstanding you. Pretty much every romantic relationship I have been in has had a "this is also best friend element" to it.
I think friend zone is just someone you like that does not like you back, which no matter how good looking or how great your personality is, will happen to everyone at some point, no?
The argument she shouldn't be wearing that is so wrong on many levels. My mom always said what about the elderly women wearing a hospital gown. People who act like what a women is wearing means anything. Are completely denieing that SA happens to anyone regardless of what they are wearing or look like.
I also heard stories of girls dressed in burqas still being groped by men on the streets. It has nothing to do with her clothing and she's not asking for it.
People always like to bring up how porn messes with your view on sex and how it propagates a bad image of women's sexuality but like, as a dude, I feel like being shown way too many James Bond movies as a little boy fucked my understanding of consent up way worse than porn ever could've.
I am a girl but James Bond was always so disturbing to me. The portrayal of flirting etc in a lot of movies especially older ones is so fucked up
Let's be fair, mainstream media did more damage to women's rights than porn, but porn is the only one getting ire because it features sex workers.
I just started listening to a podcast called "Kill James Bond" that's going through each movie and trying to enjoy what can be salvaged but mostly tearing the movies apart. It's been VERY cathartic to finally hear other people calling out what a sex criminal that guy is! Also, terrible at his job. I felt like I always knew it, but he's such a worshiped figure and very pop culture it made me certain I was wrong somehow.
There is this video called "s*xy born yesterday" trope in movies analyzed. I think it is really good.
I believe if people are taught about sex properly, porn wouldn't have the effect or place it has, or at least be very different.
Enbie here, but speaking for when I identified as male:
There were *multiple* occasions when I had sex with women who I wasn't attracted to or interested in because I didn't think guys could say no to sex. I thought that refusing would be unfair to the girls who were into me (I thought that their pain of rejection mattered more than my own wishes and pleasure), and that it would be failing to perform masculinity for myself.
It's fascinating hearing this from an amab person because as an afab person I've dealt with so many experiences where I've had sex i didn't want/enjoy with people because I didn't want to hurt *their* feelings going into a lot of what the video talked about with women being raised to be people pleasers and accomodators. I've only really ever thought about it from the afab side of things because that's my lived experience, but there is pressure in the bedroom for people socialized as either gender to have sex out of obligation, although for different reasons. It's sad to me because it makes me think so much of the sex people are having, especially within hookup culture, might not even be truly wanted by either party involved.
This exactly. I had that exact experience and unfortunately it was also my very first sexual experience. I was very high, and she was drunk and we had very adamantly expressed sexual interest in each other throughout the relationship and to cut a very long, codependent story short we also didn’t think we would see each other again after this encounter. There was this idea in the air that we HAD to have sex, no matter the circumstance nor how mentally ready either of us actually were, and we were both young and had a lot of attachment trauma. In hindsight, we also had very very poor boundaries in general, but certainly with our bodies as I think we both would learn from the experience. I overvalued the potential reaction she’d have to rejection, while meanwhile I’m struggling to be aroused in the first place because I’m innately uncomfortable with the spontaneity. But at the time, to me, it seemed that was the only way she would believe that she had value to me. I remember her literally crying because I couldn’t get it up, and feeling locked in because it’s like “oh well now I HAVE to fuck her and not only that, I have to OVER-PERFORM my sexual desire for her so as not to hurt her feelings and her self worth. Otherwise I’m a bad person. So I’m having this extremely fucking uncomfortable, icky, creepy sex that makes me feel dirty because she and I have basically been conditioned to think that the only expressions of intimacy are in sex, and men can only prove their love for you through sex. To her, it was “I need to do this or else I’m worthless” and to me it was “I need to do this or else I’m rejecting her very existence”. I’m sure to this day her friends regard me as a predator, and I can’t even feel mad or wronged by that simply because whether we like it or not, men and women are taught to constantly attach false meaning to the actions of the other party. Sometimes there’s just no way around those sexual encounters that make you feel icky after the fact. Saying this all to say that yes, I agree that yes from both parties is not enough when we take into account that yes for men and yes for women have very loaded meanings and implications. Under patriarchy, sex has far too much psychological subtext for us to gloss over it with something as basic as no means no and yes means yes.
Oh man, Ive been waiting with baited breath for this one!
About 3 years ago, I met a man who surprisingly had an extremely in depth understanding of consent, and a respect for my consent that shocked me and opened my eyes to just how important it is to teach young people about consent as soon as possible. It's not "woke" to advocate for people feeling comfortable in the bedroom, but it IS vitally important!
I wonder though if he was the norm and what we view as "consent" now is just overly complicated
We should teach Affection and Sexuality to children, cause they learn better, faster and bring those knowledges into their future, into their growth as people. But even just mentioning it, people GO OFF! They think you out there teaching kids Kamasutra and stiff 🤦♂
@@MrReset94 Still I understand them. There is a time and place and sexuality for kids is not something that is needed
@@lovely1641 I wish I could confidently say I felt like he is the norm, but I don't. I've dated men who felt like the moment we committed consent was implied from then on out, I've dated others that assumed if we were laying together going to sleep, consent was implied. And nearly all of them felt that if they were "turned on" then that must mean I was also turned on, and therefore consent was implied at least in those circumstances.
What's funny about my experience is that I was a sex worker for a few years, and "Johns" tended to understand consent, at least in those circumstances, better than most men I had dated, especially when it comes to certain sex acts I wasn't comfortable with. Nearly every man I dated would debate with me about what bargains they could make to do those sex acts, or worse, they would just try to slip them in, as if they were hoping I wouldn't put up a fight. But men who paid for sex with me nearly always respected my rules.
I think consent is a complicated thing, and it only feels like we're over-complicating it now because our society hasn't made a woman's experience of sex to be important. Very few men place a woman's pleasure at the center of their sexual experience, and very few women even know to put their OWN pleasure at the center of their sexual experience.
I still remember the first time my boyfriend didn't come. He had let me get mine, and that satisfied him. I was worried that maybe I had turned him off somehow, and when I asked him about it, he said "that was always the plan" and then laughed. At 35 years old, that was the first time I had ever had sex with a man who only cared about making ME feel good. It was actually mind blowing and really made me think a lot about the way our culture views a man's ejaculation as the ultimate goal of any sexual experience. And we wonder why so many women haven't ever experienced an orgasm...
@@justhearmeout3959 Hi is there a way to connect with you
As a trans masc I remember being to told that Testosterone would make me agressive and more sexual , but it didn't change how I viewed other people so there was never the need to dominate. That really only came out of social situations -- not my hormones levels.
Our hormones fluctuate our mood not our personalities, u always remain who u chose to be.
@@bhavya5692 _yes this_
I think you run risks of missing out on a lot when you view it as all socialization or all biology.
Both can and do factor in.
When looking at America alone…. It’s a country with 330 million people. The idea that you can re socialize all through Ivy League edu has its fair share of problems, especially if you attempt to punish people that never had a chance to obtain this.
The carceral separatist, aka radfem/TERF/SWERF (this is exactly what it is), notion that it’s all socialization, that women (hetero because that all that was being discussed by carceral separatists/lesbian separatists) cannot really consent to sex with men due to vague power imbalances and that consent needs to be removed from the legal equation and replaced with want is a different kind of crime scene.
This is exactly how the right erodes and undoes the freedoms won by feminists.
In fact, the only supporters of the first affirmative consent policy written by a handful of teenage girls, who were deeply influenced by carceral separatism/lesbian separatism/political lesbian radical feminism (know it or not) at Antioch College in Ohio in 1991, were Christian Nationalists on the right and carceral separatists/sex negative radfems on the left.
It is still widely supported by the far right and it’s not hard to see why.
The policy re defined most sex acts as non consensual by default.
What could Christian Nationalists on the right, who had been seeking ways to roll back the sexual revolution for decades, do with that under the law?
A lot of really bad things. Especially when considering that most sex acts were redefined as non consensual to erode due process.
The right to a fair trail IS NOT, contrary to deluded beliefs at the moment, something that erodes victims rights or gives unfair advantages to perpetrators. The expansion and adoption of widespread due process was a goal of the civil rights movement.
Not without hiccups. When anti lynching advocates were making headway many years ago a group of “feminists” started proposing immediate death for anyone accused of rape.
Guess what happened next?
They were widely condemned by many anti lynching advocates for good reason. They were undoing the progress they had made.
Those “feminists” were the foremothers of what we know as “radical feminism” today. I prefer to call them carceral separatists because they are authoritarian, socially and legally punitive, anti sexual liberation for heterosexual women alone (as if this is even possible b/c if you take one of us down you take all of us down) and have been in a political alliance with Christian Nationalists on the right for the last 5 decades. They have found themselves on the same side of the fight with them over, and over, and over.
It protects people accused of crimes (not just rape) from the awesome power of the state and helped stop lynching on site. You can’t remove it from one type of crime without eventually obliterating it and eroding all of our rights. When you open that door it’s hard to close it.
Is due process used perfectly 100% of the time? No. Many still have their rights violated but they have legal avenues to correct this and we don’t have as many people being brutally murdered.
Back to it… early on during the 1960s leg of the sexual revolution carceral separatists started pumping out books and papers on rolling back sexual liberation for hetero women alone because “they had been turned into the sex slaves of left wing men”.
Ideas of removing consent from the equation followed.
Keep in mind this was during the same time that carceral separatists were demanding that hetero women leave their husbands, get rid of their sons and become lesbians for the feminist cause - like it or not.
It wasn’t going too well for them.
So…. Flash forward to Antioch College 1991.
Teen girls write the first AC policy, base it entirely on carcerl separatism, erode peoples rights in the process and radfems + Christian Nationalists light up.
They immediately wanted to adapt it for laws at large. Sex positive feminists (actual SPs, not whatever the hell the 2010 garbage was) shut it down.
People on the left knew they immediately had to shut it down in 1991 because they saw their wheels turning. It was dead by 1993 and should have remained buried.
Janet Halley wrote an excellent- OG sex positive/actual sex positive - paper titled The Move to Affirmative Consent that lays out the many legal problems with it. She lays out how it’s another intentional move rightward for feminism at large. One of many over the last 5 decades.
She correctly notes the problems with affirmative consent policies. One of the big ones being that it has absolutely nothing to do with teaching consent or better practices. It doesn’t actually encourage setting boundaries, discussions, etc.
It is an authoritarian policy that seeks to gain and maintain control by way of harsh social and legal punishments.
The environment on Uni campuses since it’s revival and widespread adoption is a nightmare. Civil rights groups constantly have to monitor policy changes under the banner of affirmative consent re education that erode rights and present deeply unfair/insane practices.
How do you claim to support discussion and affirmative consent while punishing male students for … to pull from one of many examples … asking if their partner is interested in having sex after an extended period of making out, saying okay when the girl says no, and then checking in/asking again after they continue making out for another hour?
How do you punish male students for saying what they want/do not want from the interaction while claiming to encourage discussion? Saying - I’m not interested in a sexless relationship - something every guy and girl should be able to say if that it how they feel (and this could be due to many factors) is a punishable offense if it falls from the lips of the guy alone.
Again… it has nothing to do with teaching students about conversations, setting boundaries, expressing their wants and desires. It’s hyper focused on punishing the fumbling ways tin which teens might say something.
It’s primarily focused on removing the validity of consent which is why every Uni campus that has adopted it has seen more than one situation where both the guy and girl were ignored when they repeatedly stated they consented to sex.
This is a feature built into the laws of several idiot countries that have adopted a terrible, rights eroding, policy written by a few teen girls in 1991.
There is so much more to say …
When considering the many different backgrounds people have, and the issues with access that they face, the most responsible thing you can do is encourage conversations between those involved. Not punish them if they say something awkwardly that is still valid.
You have to encourage the setting of boundaries.
Unfortunately all talk of responsibility (with freedom comes great responsibility is true) and accountability amongst feminists was deemed victim blaming by way of overwrought screeching when various scenarios were being discussed long ago. Not actual cases. Scenarios.
Sex positives encouraged examining yourself. If you do not think you would like/enjoy/be able to emotionally handle a one night stand … avoid, avoid, avoid. Just keep in mind that things can and will change as you get older depending on various circumstances.
If you want to wait until marriage… please do.
No one, and I mean no one, was demanding that all girls go out and “have sex like men and do porn”. That was a common right wing and carceral separatist trope. 99% of the time they were distorting and conflating conversations between adult women with advice for teens in an attempt to silence… for the children.
Contrary to carceral separatist belief… saying no is as big of a part of agency as saying yes.
After all the original slogan was no means no and yes means yes. It’s all the same thing no matter which short handed version of the slogan is used. It’s a catchy protest slogan. Not a law.
Neither no means no or yes means yes = seemingly encourage ongoing communication at every single mundane level of the encounter, or trying to enforce rules about your boyfriend of 3 years needing to get permission to touch your clothed hip every single time (as the teens at Antioch attempted to overreach and enforce in 1991) and then punish someone for checking in as the situation escalates. This is batshit.
People have different comfort levels and they need to be encouraged to voice them, as opposed to attempting to enforce the comfort levels of a few on all by way of policies and laws. That is not what we currently have. No one is mandated to have sex. Girls are not sent away to homes for wayward “prudes” if they are not ready to have sex yet.
Girls were sent away, shunned and punished if they had sex outside of marriage.
So much more to say …
I don’t want to sound heartless because I am not. As most sex positives are (again, nothing to do with 2010 but actual sex positive feminism) I wholeheartedly support improved sex education and always have. I support improved conversations.
We just don’t have the time or energy to address every single encounter a woman looks back on from the “new” framework of unwanted-ness now that consent has been written off by some. Our prisons are already exploding largely because of carceral separatists and Christian Nationalists. We already have a very large problem with the vast expansion and watering down of the definitions of rape/assault.
I’m not talking about reasonable inclusions like rape in marriage, being too intoxicated to consent (and contrary to popular delusional beliefs this does not = having one drink or blowing a .08).
Part of the carceral separatist movement has always been re-defining rape/assault to anything you might look back in years and years from now, ignore the fact that expressed consent was given, and decide that it really wasn’t what you wanted at the time.
This is a legal horror show.
You have to remove all accountability and responsibility from women in order to do this and this is incredibly dangerous. So is invalidating consent.
There are better ways to go about this. Stressing accountability and responsibility for everyone - not just some - is required to do it. That doesn’t mean blaming people. It means encouraging them to think about what they will and will not like in that moment.
I’ll give an example from the 1990s. Andrea “I was abducted by aliens” Dworkin and Catherine “Satanic Ritual Abuse is real” MacKinnon were teaching older teens/young women that having a consensual one night stand with a guy that you like - in hopes of it leading to flowers and subsequent phone calls - is rape if the phone calls never come and you feel bad about the situation.
This is regret. It’s okay to experience regret. It’s there for a reason. It lets you know that this situation wasn’t a good fit for you and you need to avoid it. It lets you know that being upfront with yourself and others is a better option. It’s not wise to have sex with secret ulterior motives attached. The carceral separatist focus was on punishing teens/young men for not being able to read minds while telling the female teens/young women to ignore the feeling of regret/not learn from it and pretend this was a non consensual encounter.
It’s MacKinnons political definition of rape and it comes with many issues.
Still… a lot
* I’ll add that I was very grateful for nuanced sex positive feminist discussions that were very caring/understanding MOM 101 when I was a teen. It wasn’t feminists trying to blame girls for everything and let boys off the hook. It was ladies talking lady stuff. I did spend a good bit of time thinking about what I would not would not like/be willing to do before I had sex. I knew I was not equipped for a one night stand at that point. I didn’t go near them. I am pushing 50 now and have a different outlook. Nothing but sill doesn’t work for me but I can and will enjoy with zero regret at times. When you’re younger… if someone finds it isnt for them after they fact I do not want them to beat themselves up. I also don’t want them to beat someone else up because they experienced regret. It isn’t going to help. Hitting pause, stepping back and accessing the situation will. Waiting 30 years and looking back in an attempt to catalog every wrong move when your memories are not going to be accurate/fresh can create several issues.
Thank you for speaking about "Men and boys think about sex all time". I expected this from my husband when I 1st started going out with him. I kept reading him saying, "I don't want to have sex right now" as he wasn't attracted to me. All because I had been socialized to think cis men want it all the time. Its simply not true. In fact, I tend to want it more than him and felt ashamed in admitting to that. It took a bit for me to accept what I had been taught was 100% wrong.
"Yes" isn't enough. There are things that compromises consent. Manipulation, intimidation, coersion, inebriation and sneaky surprises were situations I encountered.
I just subbed. Great video that sparked a lot of conversations, and gave me resources too. Much appreciated.
Don't forget mental illness and trauma. Traumatized people have an impaired ability to say no *to anyone*, not just the people who hurt them.
Hell yes all of these are important and nreds to be talked about more than they are
There's a lot in this vid so in the effort not to write a novel, I'll comment on only one piece. In regards to actually walking the walk on protecting children whether or not you have them; yes. I think way too many of us let our stances on not wanting children and the desire to let EVERYONE know that we "don't like kids", hinder us from actually creating environments for them that we wish we had. Children are humans, we all had to go through that stage. In our unpacking of our own childhood trauma, we need to be active in not being the exact same adult that caused us that trauma. The parent is not, I repeat, is NOT the only one that can f**k up a child. They live in this world with us and many of them will, in the very near future, be an adult in our space. Learn about them and look after them. They are people. If we truly give a damn about consent, then the care and consideration of the young is a must.
THISSSSSSSS
Preach 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Yeah like some people take that they don’t want kids and just blow it up into such severe hatred. It’s really sad to see
❤❤
This was so wholesome
I'm autistic along with having a developmental disability. My relationship with my personal autonomy & learning about my ability to give consent has been a sordid affair. I'm a lil too raw & tender to go into detail, but need to thank you. This is a messy topic, but we are all with trudging through the mud to get this sorted.
I completely understand as an autistic myself. Consent is dodgy because of not being able to decipher social cues not to mention not knowing you've been violated until someone tells you or it can come up in a conversation. I hope you know your not alone.
I feel you on this on such a deep level, it's unreal. Thank you for voicing this. 🖤
autist solidarity ✊
I don't actually know if I'm autistic. I was diagnosed with ADHD at a young age and various things have lead me to question that, as an afab person. I think some of the social insecurities around these possible diagnosis allowed me to be taken advantage of. I don't really know if it's the same, but I feel what you're saying on some level. I didn't know how to say what I was feeling and I don't know if he knew I was even upset because I didn't understand how we got there. I didn't feel safe speaking up for myself for some reasons and just kinda let it happen. I still don't know how to feel about it almost 10 years later.
ugh thank you. i have autism as well and as much as I like the idea of partnership, the thought of actually being intimate with smn terrifies me. I’m really not the best at detecting a good liar (a lot of ppl lie to be polite), or when ppl do that thing where they “suggest” smth or “offer” smth but rly it means “let me do this”.
It’s hard to talk abt bc the conversation online is boiled down to “only yes means yes and anyone who says anything more complicated is an abuser” - and while that is a rly good measure ofc - it completely neglects that in irl ppl aren’t robots. That they want to navigate sexuality with a lot more like ,, conversational subtlety? And that most ppl r off put by the blunt nature of those of us that communicate through the strict, direct binary of yes = yes and hesitance/maybe/no = no. Sigghhhhh
P L E A S U R E
No but forreal, "Do you like this?" and "What do you like?" solves a WHOLE LOT of problems.
As someone who was socialized as a male, I always hated that I was slightly treated, or considered like a "sexual threat" growing up, and always had mainly female friends, so it was noticeable.
🥺💕 yea these convos need work
@@KhadijaMbowe OMG, I've never thought this would catch your attention, love your videos and keep up the good work!
victimizing yourself and villain zing the women, instead of recognizing the women are the victims here because of how men in general treat them. couldn't care less for your oppressor tears.
My female friends' mothers assigning me sexual intent at like 10 or 11 sometimes made me feel dirty to be honest.
@@ac2060 what
The consent conversation definitely needs some work, I am excited for this one! I remember on the radio people were talking about an app that let partners sign a document that gives their consent... Ironically, I feel like something like this would allow for more abusive behavior. "But you said and signed here that...."
I think people's biggest misunderstanding of consent that the "yes" can become a "no", for whatever reason. When I was young, my first boyfriend would guilt me for wanting to stop every time I wanted (but of course when he wanted to stop we always did). There is also the fact that women are expected to preform all types of things sexually for a man in straight relationships, despite their personal comfort level. Thankfully that relationship didn't last very long, but my queer identity actually was the one that made me think about my boundaries a bit more. I realized, I don't have to put up with a man's BS and should be just as vocal to what I needed to feel safe as if I was with a femme person.
"I just think it's terrible to assume that all men think this way." You have no idea how refreshing it is to hear that and how much I appreciate that statement.
Yay for this video! I’m a sex educator, and you hit so many of the points I teach in my classes-my only hard and fast rule being, “if you can’t talk about sex with a person, don’t have sex with them!” Whether that’s over the course of a night or years, the communication is foundational. I also emphasize clarifying our own pleasure points first-knowing how intimate certain types of touch and sexual expression feel to you is so important for negotiating those boundaries with partners.
I also like to have students think about what it might feel like to not get consent-what if you’re reading the situation one way, you ask for consent either verbally or physically, and your request is rejected? I hope that validating, preparing for, and processing potential feelings of hurt or embarrassment in those situations will help people accept them and respond with respect instead of shame.
The narrative of "boys being boys" or that men can't contain themselves has always pissed me off, so much so that I still have a complicated opinion about men in general that I'm only now finding the emotional energy to sort through. Any time I get even the slightest wiff of locker room talk or "alpha male" behavior, I immediately found a way out of the room as fast as possible. I'm not sure who put the idea in my head that it was all bullshit but it's the sort of thing that once you see it you can't un-see how disrespectful and harmful that mindset is.
It's not only so freaking harmful but it's like - sooooo offensive to men. I wish it was talked about more bc i feel like there are so many resources helping afab people unpack how they've been victimized by this mentality but for people socialized as men the only messaging we have is like "you're the problem you're terrible"
Like, right? None of this shit helps. While yes, sexual urges may be difficult to contain, my guess is that it's so difficult because no one taught men how to contain them in a healthy manner. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're taught that "containing it" isn't manly. There's so much bullshit attached to being a man, which is a shame because being a man isn't a bad thing.
@@dorikaplan7060 I hate it. It's like calling men and boys mindless animals and expecting them to take it as a positive. edit: By ''it'' I mean ''boys will be boys''/''men can't control themselves''.
I'm really excited to be able to hear your thoughts about this cause I was literally trying to find information about consent and literally found it to be super insufficient and lacking. Like I feel like its gestured at opposed to being properly fleshed out and it's kinda hard to have conversations with men because there are so many things that get kinda treated as green lights when that wasn't the intended message
Yes!
I don’t know if you’re still searching, but in case you are, consider looking into kink resources, since consent is often taught in those spaces. There are plenty of resources online or in book format, but you could even search for physical classes. The local dungeon where I live requires people to attend their consent class before being allowed in, for example.
But virtually every online kink educator has something on consent or negotiation. Evie Lupine and Morgan Thorne come to mind. Vanilla wise, I know Lindsey Doe (Sexplanations) and Hannah Witton have talked about this.
Geneviève Fraisse has a book on consent from a feminist perspective
I had a teacher(in a class of ENTIRELY afab kids) talk about a girl who punched a guy who sëxuâlly âssâulted her and STRAIGHT UP said the girl had it coming because of what she was wearing, and that it was in boys' biology to not be able to resist temptation
What really made it scary was that she raised TWO boys while carrying this mentality
We need to normalize women using self defense when being attacked in any manner by a man without consequences!!
No jail time for the victims
The height of #metoo was rough for me personally. I was assaulted in late 2016, and still going through the aftermath a year later when the movement became mainstream. Having to see and hear news stories, "opinion" pieces, and comment threads about SA was incredibly triggering. Who wants to reminded of something they are already constantly thinking about? It's the reason why I was glad that it kinda died out.
I feel terrible thinking that since it did bring out an important convo that needed to be had, but the media used it to sensationalize SA at times. Something that the mainstream media has always done regarding SA, but now there was a hashtag. It also allowed reactionaries to weaponize it and downplay consent, SA and survivors.
I doubt I'm the only survivor that felt that way and wish the relationship between media perception and SA survivors was discussed more.
One thing I always like to bring up during consent conversations to show how messy it can be is my experience (so content warning, I won't be graphic though).
I was 19 at the time, I have anxiety and this often made me focus on people pleasing and the thought of letting someone down was something I couldn't face. I was also young and dumb and hadn't properly realised that yet. I arranged to meet with a guy the day before and at that time I did want to, but the day of, I was feeling off and didn't really want to go through with it. I convinced myself that when he got there I'd get in the mood and the idea of cancelling was something I couldn't do.
I want to be clear, throughout the process he asked for consent, "is this okay?" "Do you want this?" Etc. But the idea of honestly answering those questions with "I'm not really feeling it" never crossed my mind. In fact, when he would ask, I panicked thinking he might have picked up on the fact I wasn't into it and then tried to make myself perform and seem more enthusiastic. And afterwards I felt awful, I couldn't stay in my bedroom where it happened unless I was drunk, knowing that while he had done everything he was supposed to, I was still hurt, my anxiety had taken away my autonomy. It's really hard realising the person that you can't trust to look after you is yourself. My mental health took away my ability to consent.
I bring this up because I think it's important to know how consent models can fail when faced with real messy lives. Honestly I don't have a solution to prevent what happened, I don't really think there is one, I think when something like this happens the best we can do is listen and support each other.
I spent a long time after that learning how to be honest with myself when it came to sex, it's still really hard and if I feel unsafe I've been known to resort to a white lie to help me leave a situation, but it's helped me feel like I can start trusting myself again.
I've long thought one of the biggest problems is that a lot of people approach sexual exchanges only caring about their own pleasure. And I definitely feel like some people are socialized to be willing to forego caring about their own pleasure in favor of pleasing another.
My worst run in with lack of consent was, ironically, in the BDSM scene. I feel like a lot of members of that community pride themselves on being so damn careful, but fun fact: they're no more careful than anyone else. In my experience, there are a lot of people in the scene who end up there because they really do enjoy hurting other people, and they want a social contract to back up their actions. I was guilted into activity, shamed into activity, shocked by so much of the callousness I encountered. It felt lot of people didn't care about the enthusiastic yes persisting through an interaction. It's been years since my worst experiences with one of their spokespeople and I still wonder WTF I was thinking letting myself be alone with him when I knew he expected me to roll over and resume our prior relationship. Hint: if the person you're expecting to sex up is shocked when you suggest it, they might not be into you.
YUP so many BDSM community members paint their community in such a white washed brush, acting as if being in a BDSM event or relationship is so much more safe and free and progressive than a vanilla one. I get why they are so defensive about their community since its so stigmatized, but like you said the reality is that the BDSM community is no better (or worse) than vanilla communities when it comes to this type of stuff. Our entire culture doesnt understand or respect consent, and the BDSM community is part of that culture and thus has the same issues
Yep, the Safe Sane and Consensual get thrown out once folks get the Top disease of power and don't check in nor ask. I have seen so many people who claim to be consensual and then engage in behavior that is not consensual. Not even checking in, just showing up with their own agenda and making lots of demand and yelling. Even those who wrote some of the educational books that we might read, are guilty as charged.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I have definitely encountered men like that too.
Yes! I was slapped by a dom without my consent years ago and I’m still like how does this happen in this pure space *sarcasm*. It’s also a group filled with a lot of really traumatized people (the community also doesn’t want to admit that). I think there’s inherently misogynistic aspects of BDSM like the amount of male doms to female is a clear indication that there’s some power stuff going on and how aggressive it’s getting due to mainstream p0rn. We can’t talk about it because it’s kink shaming and “subs” have all the power 🙄, but if an abusers in the room that’s out the window. If a sub doesn’t know how to say no and feels uncomfortable then what?
It’s also wild that it’s considered this counter culture when it’s just a bunch of people getting off on misogyny and repackaging r*pe culture. Misogyny is completely normal. It’s nothing inherently subversive about that. I’m not shaming anybody because I’ve been a part of it, but I think a society of people that touch strangers, invades personal space (and gets angry about getting called out), and records random people to post online are not going to just understand consent when the clothes come off. Nobody’s perfect but it’s so weird how people act like BDSM is an exception to all societal norms.
What happens a lot for new subs getting into BDSM is those gross top types will seek inexperienced people to take advantage of them. I hear about it a lot. Wished the community did more to not protect those kids of people.
I've been fighting with myself about this around an inappropriate relationship I had in high school and the role of consent and power dynamics in it. He was only 2 years older than me, but he was also my volleyball coach. The first time anything happened, consent was... questionable, despite I didn't want to be there anymore. After he made me keep it a secret, he kept pushing me into sexual things all of high school. It was really confusing and he treated me really shitty and I became suicidal. But I don't think he thought of it as assault, despite it felt to me, like I was being violated. Something I've been really confused and angry about lately. So I appreciate this video.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. It was wrong
Hope u heal ❤️
Most abusers don’t realize their actions. It doesn’t take away from your trauma or make what happened to you any less illegal or morally wrong
Coercion at its finest.
I was just thinking about this topic and talking to a friend about that.
Edit: I think one of the main things that muddy discussions of consent is that people immediately jump to the legal implications. And they are looking for something that clearly translates to law and punishment.
B-b-b-but if kids are encouraged to recognize and assert their bodily autonomy, how will we get them to voluntarily consent to being soldiers and workers?!
Such a great video, this is a topic that I think about a lot. So much so that I've been piecing together an essay of my own. I think our ideals and goals around bodily autonomy, pleasure, and consent are at odds with the general atmosphere of domination we live in. It really doesn't help things that sex is presented as something for people (especially masc people) to "get". A complex bundle of friendship, lust, agency, and vulnerability is flattened to quantity. Not only are people (usually femme people) objectified as a matter of course, but the very activity itself becomes an object to be earned, stolen, possessed, withheld, etc. Sometimes I really think the commodity form has colonized our entire social existence.
I feel like my life would have been better in so many ways if I could have received proper sexual education growing up. I'm bi, but I couldn't really understand that in my youth. The sex I had with some of my also-amab friends was always under a pall of shame and absolute secrecy. It couldn't be acknowledged, but my very real attraction to women could be, and was rigorously encouraged. How could I be gay if I had so much hetero longing? I had sort of compounding insecurities around women because my "achievements" in homosexuality undermined and invalidated the few "accomplishments" I had with women. That's all really changed for the better in adulthood, but it's frustrating to have been victim and participant in the stigma around sexuality.
The stigma and obfuscation around sexuality leaves us vulnerable to abuse and manipulation. I think that's a feature and not a bug for all of the hopeful tyrants in our lives.
Being someone who was socialized as a man I’ve always been uncomfortable with the way I was expected to always be wanting sex. I remember as a preteen hearing the popular myth that men think about sex every 7 seconds. It struck me as absurd, but at the time I accepted it as fact and came to assume that it just meant I was weird. Growing up I had more desire for a romantic partner than solely a sexual one. I was often ridiculed for this by my peers which lead to a lot of confusion and deeply held insecurity. All this to say that yeah I think your critique regarding this as far as it relates to my experience is spot on.
As a cis man with a higher sex drive, the existence of of culture around boys and the "always thinking about sex" narrative had me thinking that my experience was normal and led to me not questioning behaviors and impulses in myself that I didn't realize at the time would have a negative impact on my socialization. Now it's all just a bunch of work to do to try and unlearn those pieces that I don't like so that I'm not fighting my brain all the time.
As a guy, yes, the way that I was told that i was gonna have tons of sex, and be a player, etc, just bc I was born male? Horrible. I was laughed at by my stepmom when she found out I was 15 and didn't even have my first kiss (she said I was behind). And then talked abt how she expects to catch me having sex in my room at least once. Like the way it felt made me feel like all guys are expected to be... bad people. And it sparks the thought that maybe alot of guys are bad ppl because we are socialized that way... But we not ready for that conversation.. Love the video as always Khadija
I absolutely think there is validity to the fact that the men who have done bad things with me are a product of their environment. It is sad, and it is not an excuse. But if we deny the fact that we’re creating the problem there’s no way for us to fix it so I think it is an important point.
Oh, wow, I'm sorry your stepmom treated you like that, man. Inappropriate and cruel.
yep. a whole mess
There are videos out there in UA-cam that like to perpetuate this narrative. They make it seem like a scam that benefits the boys at the expense of the girls.
If you're curious, just go to the search thing and type How Fathers Treat their Daughter vs their Sons (or vise versa).
One UA-camr skit for the first three minutes was stupid enough to kind of admitted he treated girls like objects when he was in his teens, when he has talking to his "son". UA-camr was Tpindell on that one.
Ugh what your step mom said was hella weird and enforces this belief that boys are just super hyper sexual beings by nature
This was such an amazing and informative video! The saddest thing in my life is that I do not have any women/nb friends that haven't been through s-a (including me). I've been working with teenagers for 15 years and I can't count the amount of girls who shared their s-a with me...
I am ace, tall and big amab-nb and even if I didn't feel in danger in any way, after saying no during the first date, she "went for it" during the second date without asking, I felt too bad to say no.
During the first date, she kissed me, after telling me that she couldn't stop herself. I was okay(ish) with that. I should have seen the red flag right there but like I said, I'm big + and she's small, what can happen?... She then ask me to go back to her place, I said no, that I prefer taking more time. She pushed a bit by questioning me, while looking sad, about if I was attracted to her. So during the second date, I felt bad about hurting her feelings/confidence. I never said yes. She knew I didn't like it like that. She didn't ask that time. Pleasure was VERY absent. I'm okay now, i'ts been a while.
Don't hesitate to ask for help. It's not your fault. Victim blaming never helps.
I'm sorry that this happened to you.
@@cyncynshop thank you. We all need solidarity and community 💜
That's not ok. I'm sorry you had to deal with it.
I am a professor and researcher that focuses on sexual assault prevention and this video is pretty in line with research about consent. We are so uncomfortable existing in a gray area and so much of the conversation about consent is messy and nuanced. You really captured that. If you want to follow-up from an academic perspective, I am happy to talk about my work and the work of my colleagues to reduce power based violence.
Loved the video. Got mad about a related part of this topic. Wrote a little. Thought it was a rant worth sharing with the class.
⚠️ Trigger Warning: All the damn things. ⚠️
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So, here's a situation where "the consent conversation" is pretty irrelevant to the actual problem of a lack of consent.
Around five years ago, my white, rich AFAB r*pist accused me of SA in order to get away with r*ape.
Our friends knew that I was going throught the worst period of my life during my parents' divorce, and that I was relying on friends and mentors to try and keep myself safe, both physically and psychologically, from the dramatic increase in racist and homophobic abuse I was experiencing. Yet, my friends cut off contact without a word for almost two years at my most vulnerablre choosing to "believe" an almost complete stranger over someone they'd each known for around 3-5 years. All of them were self-identified leftists and liberal, many were socialist or communist leaning, most were queer. All of them kept up with "the discourse," and had strongly progressive feelings about topics like consent, mental illness, wealth, and appropriation. All were white, and were either wealthy or middle-class.
It took me so long to examine what had happened. I was socialized female and taught by my white mom that not being color blind was wrong, and that "no one would be able to tell" I'm POC anyway (spoilers: everyone can, it's very obvious), and that if someone (*cough* someone white *cough*) says they believe or think something it's immoral to doubt their honesty, even if you can't prove it. So I resisted thinking that my friends could have been anything other than fools, stupidly but honestly duped into believing the "wrong person." After all, I hadn't believed myself--why would anyone else?
Eventually I realized that a big factor in my friends' "decision" might have had to do with all the free work I was doing for them for the theater group they wanted to start, for which I'd just asked to be given appropriate credit and compensation. At the time, I was too preoccupied with the complete inability to contact the outside world, due to my only "parentally approved" friends all ghosting me at once and my r*pist issueing vague threats over dms. They had always threatened to ruin my reputation if I left or fought back, anyway, so I kind of expect them to spread rumors and for me to have to douse some social fires in order to get my normal life back.
And then I did leave, and all of my friends ghosted me while that person I left took both my work and my spot in the group as well. Funny how that happened.
I don't on the whole know what any of this means, but I think the main thing that's been occupying my mind since is, without radical redistributions of power and effrctivr harm reduction strategies, "the discourse" is meaningless to effect change. It will only become another tool to bolster preexisting systems of oppression. As a brown, disabled, AFAB, aro/ace spec queer I've had several different "situations" happen to me over the years, as well as other types of discriminatory bullying, because... well, I'm in the American midwest. But while the most dramatic and awful fallout has usually been the fault of my homophobic, racist family deciding to punish *me* for what someone else had done *to* me, the more consistent theme was the rich and powerful getting their way, no matter what. That I was always stuck on one side of that dynamic is just a numbers thing.
To combat this, we need justice. We need youth liberation and reparations and Land Back and everything else that will help to shrink the massive power gaps between social groups. There will always be terrible opportunists in the world--but if a society relies on a corrupt distribution of power, then power can only afford to reward the corrupt, and must do, to effect its own perpetuation. The more equal and equitable a society, however, the more the empathetic and liberatory influences are required and, so empowered, can flourish to their full capacity.
Life sucks but flowers grow and we can make things better. And, anyway. That's what's been on my mind.
That is honestly something I've experienced and observed too in regards to the person with more social standing/power being the actual manipulator, but they spin it around and accuse the victim. It's frightening how quickly people will turn on you instead of them actually trying to get to the bottom of what happened.
I'm really sorry you went through that. There's a book that touches on things you've experienced. It's called Conflict is Not Abuse by Sarah Schulman. It's a difficult but interesting read that really talks about how poorly we handle some issues in progressive spaces. Especially how coercive social tools like shunning don't actually solve the problem and can even reinforce inequalities, just like you've said. I think this book will validate a lot what you have experienced. I should emphasize that your milage may vary with Schulman's analysis but I found it to be insightful.
For me enthusiastic consent isn't just the verbal part. Right? You want movement, verbal reactions, a face that shows they are liking whatever is going on, etc.
If someone sinks into themselves, gives you blank stares or won't look at you, is tense, and a ton of other cues, then that's a no go.
I know it can get messy when being coy and playing the game is still a thing for some people and still pushed in some cultures but if you see a person as a whole person more than one cue should be in place to let you know that you're getting a thumbs up or thumbs down.
I wish I had someone tell me to explicitly talk about consent with my son when he was in elementary school. We never forced him to hug relatives and we made sure he knew to come to us if an adult was touching him inappropriately but we didn't talk about how to tell when something doesn't feel right with a peer. How to pay attention to how actions and behaviors made him feel and what to do if he finds himself in a situation with someone, be it an adult or classmate, that makes him uncomfortable. It seems like common sense in hind sight.
I wish my parents had had a conversation with me about the likelihood that a friend or peer may try to take advantage of me. Or explain to me that people may read the same situation different than I do and how to speak up if I didn't like what was happening. This isn't to imply that survivors of rape or assault are to blame for not speaking up. I think I personally would have been able to cultivate more confidence within myself to say when I'm not okay with a situation.
Not blaming my parents but this really is something I wish more parents knew. Having appropriate conversations with preteens about how to respect boundaries and even read nonverbal cues of friends and partners would do so much in protecting people, especially children.
Agree 10000%. At the age of 9 or 10 I had a neighborhood friend who was 5 years older and she would invite me over to swim in their pool or hangout and play sims, but she started inappropriately touching me and other girls in the neighborhood while at sleepovers. We all cut her off but nobody said anything about it for years because of the fact that she was a teen girl. We figured she was just weird and had bad taste in jokes that made us uncomfortable but now as an adult I look back and cry because she was a babysitter for the longest time. If she was doing this to me and the other girls that lived in our neighborhood what would stop her from doing this to all the children she was PAID to watch as a 15 to 18 year old?! Makes me so sad that we didn't understand what was happening to us. I don't blame our parents because something like that wouldn't come to their minds, an old guy in a white van maybe, but not a teenage girl.
Thought provoking, thank you.
For me, a dude in his early 50’s, virtually none of what you were talking about has ever been a good fit in my life. I’ve never been particularly interested in sex at any point in my life and, honestly, if it was a major driving force for the guys around me they rarely ever mentioned it. I have definitely met plenty of “horn dogs” but they really don’t make up all that large a group as compared to the non horn dogs and, even then, a considerable portion of them were women.
That being said, though, I have found that the very aggressive male horn dog is, in fact, extremely aggressive on what they feel they are entitled to and disturbingly willing to cross just about any line to get (take) it. Extremely manipulative, extremely focused on themselves and what their partner should be doing to give that to them, and often couldn’t care less, especially after the fact, about what trauma they are leaving in their wake. I suspect any conversation on this sort of topic will inevitably be heavily distorted be the sheer number of people that have been impacted by folks like this which is, probably, a very different thing than there actually being a massive proportion of our population actually being this sort of person.
As a child there were plenty of things, with regards to this topic, that happened to my mom, my sister, and myself … much of them pretty much from the same person … but I can’t say that much of any of them left me with any real desire for sex nor a particularly well developed sense of sensuality. And none of it left me with any sense of “boys will be boys” hyper sexuality.
What it did leave me with was a belief that nobody could ever desire me in any real way at all and that I’m not worthy of any of that kind of human contact.
My way of dealing with this distorted world view was to become, basically, the exact opposite. I’ve never, ever, in my entire life been able to have a sexual relationship with anyone that I did not have a strong emotional connection to already. Virtually all the sex I have ever had has been from the perspective that I am there to satisfy my partner’s needs not my own, pretty much to the point where most of my partners have never been in any position to satisfy me much at all … sometimes to their great confusion and disappointment.
As an adult the number of partners I have had can be counted on one hand. I was strongly attracted to each of them when we were sexually active and went to great lengths to try to please them. I learned how help my partners achieve orgasms and, for one of them, the first orgasms they had ever experienced. Not a badge of honor, really, nor a bragging thing, because I grew up hearing so many women talk about how often they faked their orgasms and hated sex that I have never been able to trust that any of the women I’ve been with weren’t also just lying to me just as those other woman I grew up around were lying to their partners.
My first girlfriend experience turned out to be a horrible one … one that I barely survived. Through her I learned about the flip side of the “horn dog” coin. She loved sex. Wanted sex. Needed sex. In fact, used it as a measure of how deeply I cared for her or how much I wanted her. In a world in which every guy is supposed to be obsessed with sex at all times is it really all that unbelievable that some folks would come to believe that if a guy doesn’t want sex with you then he obviously doesn’t really want you? This was, ultimately, terrifyingly destructive to our relationship, for many reasons, and I ended up having all sorts of sex I never wanted to have all in a desperate act to show her how much I cared for her.
You think a guy can’t fake it? You couldn’t possibly be more wrong if you do and you probably have not knowingly spent much time around sexual abuse survivors. “Survivors” is the key here … we do what we must do to survive. But no matter how real it looks, or seems to be, some, most, or all, of it is most likely anything but most of the time … no matter how much we want it to be.
I’m on my second marriage. I have five kids from my first. I have tried to teach all of my kids better ways to be, feel, and act, than most anything I was ever taught. But life likes to mess with you pretty much no matter who you are and what you try to do.
You mentioned people are often extremely bad at body language. This resonates strongly with me. In my case I am hyper aware of certain kinds of signals most strongly associated with dangerous and predatory men. If you are this kind of person I probably smell that in you the moment I see you walking in my direction. However, just because someone flashes something does not mean they are thing, desiring, or doing any such thing and this has cost me many more times than once.
On the other hand it wasn’t for years after becoming more experience with intimate situations that I came to realize the sheer number of times that some of the women I was hanging around were all but throwing themselves at me, all for naught, because society apparently makes damn certain that women don’t assert what they desire and I was completely, ridiculously, unaware that any signals were, in any way, being thrown around at all let alone being thrown, or could ever be thrown, in my direction. Which meant that I, in essence, simply rejected their overtures, rejected them, when I in no way ever meant to any such thing and never even knew I was being asked. The worst one of these was a friend I had, with her own tragic, traumatic, history that made any such overtures almost torturous to engage in on any level. Without meaning to I actually ended up rejecting her overtures about as harshly as I can imagine doing and still feel sick about that to this day … but I had no clue. And, in this specific case, was made all the worse because I had been making plenty of overtures towards her for months but never realized the complicated emotional hellscape that was her reality.
Heck, being bad at this whole “signals” thing actually turned me into the bad guy once. And that event was entirely because although I was hyper vigilant and aware that “no means no” I hadn’t yet became aware that the lack of “no” didn’t mean yes. In fact, in this case, it was worse because the woman in question basically went into her own survival mode so there was tons of “that looks like a ‘yes’ so we must be doing pretty good!” Thankfully, as bad as that event was for, ultimately, both of us it never got the opportunity to any near as far as it could have but, sadly, did go rather farther than just kissing someone when that actually wasn’t the vibe.
To be honest I can’t even remember the last time I’ve had sex … married or not. Heck, I can’t even remember the last time I’ve even desired to have sex. As a father, of both girls and boys, this whole landscape of the post 30+ years, for me, has left me feeling despair for my children. I barely managed to make my way through to where I am now and everything just seems so, so, much more dangerous, confusing, and traumatizing than the dangerous, confusing, and traumatizing garbage I went through growing up and wandering through adulthood.
But I am glad for your conversation. Your apparent awareness of, and willingness to discuss, the subject at broad levels and willingness to shine lights on things that might be very little more than massive misunderstanding, and your hunting for ways to bridge that misunderstanding, is about the best I can really hope for in this conversation space.
So, yeah. Thanks for that. “Everybody is evil except the victims” has always been difficult road to wander given that, in any non-trivial life, we will all find ourselves the victim, the perp, or both, many times in life and, by my experience anyway, almost never because we were actually trying to be any of those things.
I find your conversation wonderful, enlightening, at times uncomfortable, but always engaging. You’re awesome and not just because I said so :-)
Wow wow wow! Thank you for this comment !
Yes, as a straight guy, the stereotype of the always horny shallow dude feels insulting. When I was a teenager, I was quite shy and generally wouldn't feel comfortable talking about sex (I was a virgin until 25). A lot of this was due to religious hang-ups at the time, but I do remember how uncomfortable it made me when grown men casually sexualized women. I assumed I simply wasn't "mature" enough to comfortably talk like that. Surely these adults weren't just being horny in public - Someday I would be old enough to understand.
Well, I'm 32 now, and it turns out the way these men would talk was exactly as messed up as it sounded. What I thought was maturity was actually the exact opposite.
Actually yes, thank you for asking about "Does the idea of men being bestial sex machines bother you?".
It is a dehumanizing mindset that society has taken for granted that allows our members an excuse for their selfishness and cruelty. Why should women need to protect themselves from me when I ought to be a fully functioning human being, capable of rational thought and restraint. Not only does it dehumanize men and women, but it hence restricts the sorts of experiences that we can have with one another due to societal expectation and thus further drives a wedge in our understanding of each other.
Absolutely agree that being sexualized as men are robbed of their agency and pressured into being sexual from young ages and it is honestly gross
You can stop saying ’alleged …’ after they get a sentence - after that are ’convicted …’. :)
Consent conversations/conversations about predatory behavior cements my understanding that
1. Individuals know what they're doing when it comes to assault/harassment, the language is just missing
2. Individuals will go far and beyond to set up a situation to appear innocent just to turn around and violate
3. People don't understand the various forms of manipulation
when she talked about men and women not understanding each other, and it’s so true. My bf had a hard time understanding my soft no’s. I didn’t understand how he didn’t catch what I was saying but he honestly didn’t get it. It was hard to understand but I feel I’m supposed to catch on to what ppl are saying without being told while guys aren’t expected to be as aware. We are at an understanding now but I had to teach him to take a fucking hint.
This conversation is super close to me as a female. I’m in a fantastic relationship rn but the conversation of consent has been brought up as our main issue and it’s really hard. As I’m the one who’s left with the responsibility of killing the mood and making it awkward because it’s uncomfortable calling him out. He is actively working on this conversation and takes me very seriously but it has been hard and had me questioning things but I saw how he actively changed his behavior, He’s amazing and understands me and why it’s hard for me. But wow this video hit close to home.
Im sure when u and your partner put eachothers feeling above yourselves , then both parties can find a common ground , also I'm not in a relationship rn or ever was , so do what protects both of your feelings and bodies and simultaneously put trust in each other is the way to go. Obviously through a conversation.
@@bhavya5692 exactly, you couldn’t have said it better❤️
The “being alone in a room with a woman= consent” is so normalized that even a lot women talk about consent like this. I took a guy home with me one time after a party (I knew the guy he’s friends with one of my bffs) bc long story short, he had nowhere to sleep. Later I heard that apparently as soon as I had said he could just sleep on my couch that night , he thought it was an invitation for sex. Hell, even my friends (all women) thought I was inviting him for sex. My intention was ONLY to not have him sleep on the streets or having to search for a hotel. He assaulted me that night. I wanted to tell my friends but they were teasing me for “bringing a guy home” asking me if he was good. They had already assumed what we were gonna do despite me never being interested in men. Everyone thought being alone in a room = consent. Everyone. So for a long time I thought it was my fault, I still sometimes do. We need to talk abt this stuff more so 1. SA like this doesn’t happen in the first place 2. Others don’t (often unintentionally) victim blame. And many more reasons ofc
As a trans lady, I will admit this space is tricky to navigate. Male socialization DOES teach us to view women a certain kind of way, and I can and have been part of the problem. But nobody cares if we are the victims. Or, people will call us groomers, for the very fact we are trying to leave that socialization behind. But also try to build relarionships. But also not be murdered for "trans panic," like stuff. Like. Being Cat called affirms my gender while it gives me two different kinds of panic attacks. Lol.
If it makes you feel better there are people out there who understand social programming and only asks you to try to overcome it. And respects you a great deal when you do.
The part of catcalling reaffirming your gender is so real:(
To say that catcalling affirms your gender is very sexist and trivialising to this experience that is traumatic for most women, as most of us experience catcalling when we are very young. The fact you have the privilege to experience catcalling as affirming, and not terrifying and degrading just shows that you are not so far removed from male socialisation as you seem to think. If you are genuine about wanting to overcome it then listen to female voices when we tell you that you're being sexist.
@@april5706 Well she never said it wasn't also terrifying. In fact she said it's terrifying in two ways, I'm assuming the two reasons to be scared as a trans woman are 1. The same reason cis women are afraid and 2. Being found out to be trans and then being attacked for reactionary homophobic/transphobic reasons. .... So it's The fragility of men's perception of women as objects being thrown off because someone they perceive as a man was sexually attractive to them. I think it's actually quite useful to feminism to think about this because that rage shows that they are disturbed to find that someone "like them" could be a sexual object. They want to get rid of trans women because it forces them to think about sexuality in a different way.
@@april5706 The only reason catcalling is gender affirmation is because it is something girls and WOMEN experience. Connecting to women though the good and the bad of the current social experience of existing as a woman is not sexist. You can't really just take the good without the bad. Trans women fight along side women against sexism all the time for this reason because they experience it too.
Man I’m sorry you went through all those unwanted and uncomfortable sexual experiences Khadija. Glad you were able to work through it in therapy - something I need to start going to!
You are ridiculously smart. Even when I agree with you I leave your videos with something new to think about. Thank you Khadijah for being so eloquent
I've been in the BDSM community for a long time, and it is incredible to me how little the normies discuss literally anything ever AND how many things they think are normal that are absolutely fetishistic: gender essentialism, not talking, predation, rape play.
Like, it's *okay* to be into objectification but that's fetish play and requires consent.
i'm reminded of that tumblr post that talks about how all those little details of the western hetnorm marriage tradition are fetishistic lollll.....
@@Envy_May
If you ever find it can you link it? I’m actually very interested in that.
@@-alovelygaycat- if i stumble across it again and i remember ! i tried to look for it just now but i couldn't find it
IKR?? The cishet normies are downright *disturbing*.
The trope about horny out of control boys and men does piss me off and still makes me feel very conflicted about my gender identity. This hyper-sexual focus on men's psyche is such a big part of conventional masculine identity it sometimes feel easier to just dissociate oneself from masculinity than trying to find a non-toxic way to be a part of it :c
Yes khadija the whole “being a man” means you can’t help being aroused by any kind of advance made by a female who would be considered at least minimally conventionally attractive or s extremely reductive and a constant source of frustration for me personally… I think it’s important to point out how unfortunately woman sometimes contribute into this trope as much as men do. FDs latest vid on objectification of black men was very insightful on this point and helpful for someone like me who has long struggled with this problem. I’d suggest you give it a watch but I know you’ve probably watched it already lol
As a man who was once a boy in retrospect I certainly crossed some lines and even possibly assaulted an ex because our definition of consent is what you talked about, no means no. But pretty much everything aside from no is "yes". That combined with men being taught to persue past rejection because women are just playing hard to get blah blah blah. But yeah, there need to be a social reconstruction of consent and assualt becuase clearly what we're working with isn't working
Live tweeting and as a response to your question about how men feel about being socialised to be sex centered all the time. But yeah it's pretty tedious, there are a few times where I've either been pressured into sex or had to firmly put my foot down and reject it for a couple of reasons. One, they were drinking and that's not how consent works, 2, I just wasn't in the mood, or 3, I have anxiety so people touching me can sometimes give me a panic attack. And once or twice I was this 🤏 close to a panic attack and literally had to shove a young woman off me and then comfort her because she internalized my rejection as a personal flaw.
So not only is it a set up for men but also potentially for women in moreways than talked about. Like how men rejecting women is pretty much the altimate L for a woman in the eyes of society. It's something men will often also weaponize to degrade women, see example Men Degrading Women They Get Rejected By By Saying Shit Like "Yeah I wasn't really attracted to you anyways f*t b!tch"
@@thegoodgodabove8264 I've heard this from many women too. That they take it as a personal failure or something is physically wrong with them or you don't like them as a person to some extreme degree. It's really sad.
I've studied sociology and human sexuality. I believe we need words for "misreading the signs" and "regretting sex" because the absence of these words forces people to use "sexual assault"' and "rape." Both of which requires force or a complete inability to give consent.
Sex you didn't really want or felt coerced into or "just let it happen" isn't sex by force and doesn't happen without the ability to consent. Again I think some bigger more influential brains than mine should come together and label these phenomena so that people can use the appropriate language.
And not incite defensive argument over whether it's a serious concern or not due to the extreme implications of the language.
@@SoulDevoured I disagree. Force isn't always necessary. I've been in situations were force wasn't a factor and it happened. And this was after I was very explicit about my lesbianism. But there was a huge power dynamic. Like, them being an officer and me being a pvt.
.....
Soooo I’m a cis male that went to “all boys” high school and the conversations about consent and a healthy sexual interactions among my peers were near none existent. We would have lessons about it but a lot of people would gloss over or mess about. But what stuck with me was that there were a lot that assumed that they knew all about sex because another male figure told them (a dad or older brother, etc).
I used to think it was weird that my peers were so focused on this stuff. It was literally just people talking about hero normative sex because they thought they had to. No one knew what they were talking about, but from talking to people years later it was just done because it was expected. So who exactly expected it?
I assume at home for many. My own wasn’t an escape because my primary male figure was all about that kind of talk. Even to the point I was being questioned about why I wasn’t having sex or seeking out a girlfriend. I was expected to be sexually active and I wasn’t. Which lead me to questioning my own gender and sexuality way before I probably should in ways that probably weren’t healthy (but that’s a whole other thing). But I can’t just disregard the sheer amount of media out there that didn’t help either.
I really think that we should have a social interactions course requirement in elementary middle and high schools. It’ll help with conflict resolution, sexual consent issues, and navigating social hierarchies in the workplace and in casual environments
I love Consent! We should all be on the same page about consent!
Oh, MAN, as a Gen X I am really, really feeling this one. I remember, vividly, being in both high school and college having arguments with my class mates (sometimes in class) about even the simple concept of no means no being valid. The pushback wasn't even exclusively from boys and men, either, because of how fierce the socialization of the gender binary and all that went along with it, was. I think for many of us Gen X folks (and I'm including myself in this generalization) we never got any further than yes means yes in the conversation (at best) in practice. Meaning, that we often didn't know what to do once we got past the basic stage of either yes or no and just don't have the language to explore, openly, with our partners what we meant when we said yes. I think of how often I heard, over the decades, about how much having a nuanced conversation was killing the vibe or taking the spontaneity out of sex. For reals, I heard that one SO MANY TIMES, so it's no surprise that once the opportunity came up to have these more nuanced conversations my default was 'oh, whatever you want' and not something more honest. It's an ish, for sure. Thank you to all the Millenials and Zoomers who are willing and able- you make this Gen X auntie so proud.
It's sad how slowly things progress
As someone socialized male, one of the details that really bugs me about the narrative around the immutable s*x drive of men is, like you said, the lack of agency and self control. Even as someone with an extremely high s*x drive, it is easy to draw a line between solo personal pleasure and s*x. Can't find someone who consents enthusiastically? rub one out. Is it as good? no. Does it scratch the itch? yes, and now you can move on. No need to involve someone who doesn't want to be there.
I’m a cis het man and I’ve never really been that comfortable with the idea that men are all sex crazed. Even when I’ve had a consistent sexual partner, there’s just so much more to life that I find fulfilling. It feels like one of those things that is required to fulfill traditional masculinity.
Have you heard of cuddle party? It is an event where we spend the first 2 hours practicing consent exercises. It is great for men who do not understand consent. As a woman, I'm realizing I did not understand consent in some ways.
'Can I sit down next to you?'
'Are you comfortable with my arm here?'
They are sometimes called a platonic touch workshop. Great for interacting with people in group settings in 2022
OMGG what???
@@KhadijaMbowe I forgot the best part!
When someone tells you no, the expected response is 'thanks for taking care of yourself.'
AMAB here, identify as gender fluid. Tbh, it really resonated with me when you were talking about how frustrating it must be for people to assume that you're thinking about sex all the time, that it's your only concern when interacting with people you're attracted to. As a teen, sure, hormonal lust is a wild thing and it does feel all consuming as I was learning to figure out my body and what I desired. But now I'm almost 30 and like.....a friend asked me if I was asexual because I don't feel like hooking up with strangers anymore, in a pretty pitying way. No shade to people who are asexual, but how is it that the sex drive of AMAB's is either horny rapist or castrated eunich.
This is also why I have complicated feelings about gay men because on the one hand, being visibly queer and sexual is still radical and important. But on the other hand, I am constantly frustrated by being reduced down to just wanting to fuck everything and all gay men are inherently promiscuous and can't control themselves like no. Sexual identity is about more than sex, it's about love and desire and intimacy and none of those things have to be inherently sexual. And I see a lot of older single gay men (my future lol) feeling trapped by their intense erotic desires and lamenting the fact they could never find anyone to couple with and I can't help but feel like this is partly way. Men need more options to express desire, intimacy, and love in ways that aren't sexual.
I'm honestly so glad I found your channel. I have so many thoughts on this topic.
Trigger warning: SA
When I was 12, I was sexually molested. I'm not about to make excuses for the person but they were 15 at the time and it was very clear that it was an immediately regretted action for them. I obviously had so much anxiety and sexual discomfort after that but never once did I blame them. I could never rationalize it. And while I understand that SA is NEVER okay and NEVER justified, this particular situation seemed unlike the malicious ones. I'd known this person all my life. We were raised in a conservative Christian community where discussions on sex were really taboo. I genuinely think that the actions of SA was charged by a combination of sexual curiosity, misunderstanding of social cues, and a huge lack of consideration of the age gap that created complicated power dynamics.
None of those things are personal motivators. I mean that all those factors in this particular instance was socially conditioned.
And I could never explain why I never blamed them or thought ill of them without making it sound like im sympathizing with a predator.
This video shone a lot of light onto the absolutely problematic portrayal of gendered sexual expectations. And i feel relieved to have heard it articulated in this way.
I found your videos incredibly educational. It led me down a rabbit hole of feminism, men's rights activism, patriarchal toxicity. It's painful, but eye opening. Consent is a hard topic. I'm afab and I've kissed someone bc I misinterpreted the situation... And I've been (almost) kissed the same way. And that haunts me to this day. I've been sobbing for hours (stress and alcohol makes me cry lol) and this guy (i guess) tried to cheer me up with a kiss. While both of our partners were around us, somewhere. I was stunned, how could he interpret me sobbing my heart out as a good time to make a move on me... But what was worse abt this almost kiss was that several friends saw it happen - and still deny it bc they didn't want to make our partners mad???! So I was just losing my mcfreaking mind that ppl would go to such lengths to keep the peace in a friendship. It wasn't a big thing. But made me wonder if I've ever been in a dangerous situation - would they have denied it the same way?
Also, I appreciate the positioning of the ads!! :) Makes it nice like a nice little breather from the hard topic.
“Explaining is not excusing” is a bar
i swear, I ALWAYS got mad at people, because they wouldn't let me explain things, they'd always say I'm excusing myself, or I'm making excuses. I want to tell literally everyone "explaining is not excusing"
FIRES
F - freely given
I - informed
R- Reversible
E - enthusiastic
S - Specific
Yes the narrative of ‘men are always slaves to their libidos’ does piss me off, a lot. Sure, I get really horny sometimes, but no different than literally every female friend I’ve ever had has experienced the same way. The part that really f*cks me off is how (this is a huge generalisation but also my lived experience) middle aged white women I’ve worked with use this ‘stereotype’ of men always being horny / always eager to talk about sex to make often incredibly inappropriate statements and observations about me. I feel bad for them as when I call them out on it (normally pointing out that what constitutes sexual harassment can apply to both women’s and men’s behaviour and asking them to back off) they do genuinely look really confused as they’ve bought so heavily into the narrative that men are always unable to resist anything to do with sex, so to be faced with a man who is outright refusing to accept sexual comments / conversation is baffling to them. This is why men need feminism too - among many, many other reasons obvs…
I was so nervous to watch this thinking it might be triggering, but it was so empowering!!!! Thank you for all the amazing resources ❤❤❤
I definitely have read the vibes WRONG 😭 it sucks but it’s part of the human experience. We have to learn from our mistakes and not overstep boundaries
The funniest ad-break happened. Between parts 3 and 4 Khadija's last words were "So how do we fix this?" Ad starts "with [company name]".
As a parent, I wanted to say that there are so many amazing accounts on consent parenting and sex positive parenting that have helped me navigate this stuff. From day one we never made our kiddo hug or touch anyone they didn't want to.
What surprises me the most is how much adults think kids should blindly consent to anything they say or do and how mad they get at me and my kid, when my kid doesn't feel comfortable with physical play and leaves the situation. I have had grandparents literally screaming at me because they put my child in an "playful" physical hold and the only way my kiddo could get out of it was to kick their way out. I no longer allow this grandparent in my kids life but it is shocking how much grown ups think kids have no bodily autonomy. Thank you for this complex conversation, I love what you had to say.
Not a lawyer but: you can drop the “alleged to have done such-and-such” and move directly to “convicted for such-and-such” after the conviction for the allegation in question.
I do still think it’s not correct to say “so-and-so ABSOLUTELY DID such-and-such” unless it happened to you or you were in the room as a first-hand witness.
Also, another brilliant take in this video overall. ❤️
I was already familiar with a lot of what you discussed (except for your personal experiences-thank you for being brave enough to share, it helps even though some will use it to enhance their own ***holeish behavior and comments, though thankfully I rarely see idiots in your comments section), but one thing you mention that was a new take for me: the transition over time from “no means no” to “yes means yes!” to “#metoo”… I lived through a lot of this (though admittedly only in the USA, I have family in Canada but have never lived there), but I never connected the dots as well as you did in this video.
Your honest combination of well-researched and off-the-cuff takes on the topic of consent (and many other things) are more nuanced and thoroughly developed than most commenters can dream of (though there are some other good commenters/teachers I am proud to learn from on UA-cam and I hope this trend continues to grow).
Thank you as always for putting in the effort and sharing your thoughts.
I always learn something important from each of your videos. ❤️
I am a guy and it definately bothers me that society tells me that I cant control myself. Its insulting.
Omg, this gave me flashbacks to my youth. How many times I thought I was safe with guys who were just friends who didn't understand the situation the way that I did. This is a conversation that all young women need to have, whether in the 1980s as I did, or right now. It scares me that this is still happening.
I'm definitely going to watch this at least a couple more times in short order.
I suspect far more conversation is required than a lot of people are willing to do. Anecdotally, I've found that successful poly relationships with asexual &/or aromantic people involved work well because so much more clear communication happens. It's not the amount of talk, but the quality of it, and misunderstandings get worked through earlier, rather than later (or not at all).
the wild thing about miscommunication + being a neurodivergent woman is I have near misses with dangerous situations that I didn't even realise were happening at the time; it isn't until years later that a lightbulb will suddenly go on and I'll look at it with new insight (so, you really can't assume that everyone present knows what even their own body language is saying!) This whole socialisation of everyone to have obligatory sex makes me wonder... how many times couples have sex where ~neither of them actually want to? And how many miserable low-/high- sex drive couples are out there rn, thinking there's something wrong with them, because they've both been conditioned to believe that men are supposed to want it at all times? SMH
This comment section makes me so happy! Not because people are admitting to feeling miserable. It’s so wonderful to read the support everyone is giving each other, sharing information or experiences that they found helpful or important. I also really love see F.D. Signifier brought up and recommended. Like, I’m tearing up just thinking about it all.
As a former consent educator I very much enjoyed this video, Especially the part of pleasure that’s where we would focus on. The goal is to move into a consent culture where people are more aware and empathetic towards everyone’s boundaries.
Yes looking forward to this!
theres Too Much going on in the world rn for me to sit and watch this whole thing buuut! i appreciate u and your videos khadija. this comment is for the algorithm
So glad to see you touch on this. I have been in countless situations where the men i'm friends with think that our relationship is something it isn't even after i'm transparent with them about what I feel about them. these people also happen to be people i create/make art with which makes it tricky because while i connect with them creatively, it stops there - at platonic. There will be moments where there isn't even a conversation about how each other feels, it is just assumed on their end that i feel the same as they do which is a big issue for me.
While they may accept in the moment that I don't see them in a romantic/intimate way, later on down then line, it is always brought back up again whether it be from them overstepping and trying to touch/make a move on me or them asking me for the umpteenth time if i like them or when i'm gonna "stop playing"........
It seems like no matter how transparent i am or how many boundaries I put up in regards to certain men, I find myself in a similar situations almost made to feel bad about not feeling the same way about them as they do me. It feels extremely predatory imo because I don't see myself as an outwardly sexual or inviting person in that way especially with the opposite sex. I actually tend to play up my 'homegirl' energy around men in order to throw them off of being attracted to me in a non platonic way and it does work some times, but overall it's shown me how important it is to limit the people i allow in my space and not befriend people who are not on the same page as far as attraction and interest overall.
ok *continues watching* lol
Even though I'd firmly communicated my intentions, wants, and desires with men in the past, there were always those select few who would refuse to listen and still push my boundaries. They were cut off with a quickness of course.
thank you so much for your insight!! to add on, i think that by seeing consent through the lens of pleasure, we can also highlight the significance of "no means no". saying no to sex, and having your partner respect that signifies that both individuals are choosing to be satisfied with their current state of being in relation to each other.
19:45 Oh yeah, 100% it pisses me off. And it's reinforced by a lot of social encounters. Being called gay, boring or just receiving a condenscending attitude for not really being into casual sex is such a common occurrence. In relationships you bear the expectation that you are always down, no matter what.
I'm really glad that you made a video about this. Additionally, I have a physical disability and communication before, during, and after is a must, even with "casual" relationships and it's very very rare that potential partners understand that.
it definitely took me way too long to realize that "yes = consent" is way too simplistic and even a dangerous mentality, especially when that yes comes after a dozen no's that went ignored. giving into having sex because of being tired of negging and figuring that the simplest way out is through is NOT what consent is about, and it's disheartening that so many people hold on to that coveted 'yes' like it's the key to the promise land, no matter how it was obtained, instead of actually making sure their partners are 100% comfortable and on board with whatever is going on at any point.