30:00 Totally disagree. What Forward Until Dawn got right was they built it up and then thrust us into the action. That's when we get Master Chief. He doesn't have his helmet off, because we are in the midst of a war! Chief in the game seemed vulnerable without his helmet, he is flawed, but he is stoic and presses forward still. This is character. Plus it was great tongue in cheek nod to the fans when they were on the Pelican. This show padded us with a a lot of uninteresting plotlines. This should have started off with fleet battles, less useless side drama talk (I don't want to know about Kwan), actual battle tactics, actual sacrifice. It had to feel like hurt and count for something. This is supposed to feel like humanity of the cusp of defeat and fighting for survival. Reach was a major disappointment. That took only 1-2 episodes and then it was over. It was one of the largest Earth-Convenant engagements of the war. Involving hundreds of ships on both sides. It was supposed to be a fortress. The last bastion of Earth in that sector before Earth. But somehow they completely mis-interpreted it. And you had ONI taking the suits that only the Spartans could use!!?!!?!? But instead we had to deal with so many plotholes, stupidity. FUD had a fraction of the budget this show had and they did it right by the fans. Just wish it was longer. Not going to bother with this anymore, I've listened to your streams. But you seem to err on the wrong side of history and defend this show like it was great show. It was not. Yes, it got a few things right. I like the production. Some of the acting was good. But everything else was terrible. What a sad waste of money. It deserved better.
Forward Unto Dawn is definitely on my list to see, but from what I understand, Chief is a secondary protagonist with Thomas Lasky in the lead. If Chief isn't your protagonist, then not showing his face works for the same reason it works in the game. To have that carry through an entire series? Well, I feel like you'd have to make the same compromise and have the show be about someone else with Chief as a secondary character. The other problem with using stuff like FUD as a point of comparison is that there's hardly an audience for something like that outside the fan base. If your argument is that the Halo series should have been made for fans who already know the lore and just want to immerse themselves in it, then that's one thing. Paramount wanted a show that would reach a larger audience, however; one that includes those who have never heard of Halo. To that end, I think Kwan was an excellent choice for the first episode, which did in fact start with action and sacrifice, as her character allows the audience to more easily settle into this sci-fi world. The issues with Reach I can understand given the significance of the event in the lore, but I give them a break due to the budget realities of the show. It already has a pretty hefty budget, so imagine what it would be if they had to include more space battles and hundreds of ships. Photo-realistic ones on top of that, as the more stylized look in the games would clash with the live action actors; making them even more expensive to produce. I'm also unsure of how much more story you'd be able to get out of extending the Reach battle since all of our main characters had their significant moments already, but perhaps if they had pushed it back another season and introduced more characters to then have their own moments of sacrifice/heroism in the battle. If we did that, however, we run back into the issue of everyone waiting to get to the ring, and would another season without us getting there have made fans happy?
@@ReviewersUnite They sort of built up to the Chief/Spartans with the recruits eying some leaked footage. It was a great build up. It showed none of the humans, including the ODST's could take on the Covenant . It showed humanity putting aside their differences and uniting again a relentless foe. It was futile until Chief appeared. That worked. That also stayed true to the lore. The Chief we got in the Silver timeline in the show was a mess. The guy hated Halsey, he fought against Cortana, he was hesitating all the time. He made mistakes. They fell for the same mistake that Star Wars and every other torchbearer for every other major IP did. They alienated the fanbase to pursue a wider audience. It turned out the fanbase which have kept the franchises alive for so long, were also the gateways for their children, friends and grandchildren into the franchise. It may have brought a few people into the franchise, but they lost a lot more. The original games had over They replaced a strong, well thought out storyline with a weaker, flawed storyline. If they didn't have the budget for Reach, they shouldn't have done it in the first place. But they had no excuse not to do it properly in Season 2. I could have agreed with you on the budget. But it seemed that they wasted money on the set of Madrigal. They wasted money on so many set pieces we never saw again from Season 1. We didn't need to see High Charity at this point. We did not need to see a fleshed out city of Madrigal or some internal politics. What happened to the bad guy in Madrigal??!?!? We did not need a fleshed out pirate city. We did not need to goto John's Homeworld so he could have another mental breakdown. The sacrifices made in this were pale comparison to that in the lore. Why? Because the way they were conceived was stupid. What was with that ONI guy stealing their suits on Reach?!?!? Only for the Spartans to fail and die and require Kwan to magically appear to rescue the survivors. Where was the fleet?!?!? Only for it to appear at Onyx. What is the fleet even doing there!!?!?! They showed those scenes they blew their budget there. They just lost their homebase, now they are fighting around some planet which doesn't even have MAC platforms evening out the odds. You got these Spartan III's who nobody remembers. So why should I care that they die. I cared more for Noble Team, instead of dozens of nobodies' who frankly were just cannon fodder. Books were written about Reach. A game was made about Reach. A movie covered only one aspect of Reach. They had enough material there to cover an entire Season. Instead we get no Noble Team, a Halsey that's in jail rather than saving the human race with her research. New fans probably don't even realise the significance of Reach, because even the Showrunners don't even know the significance of Reach. A wasted opportunity. The production was excellent, but mis-directed. Well, at least they realised they alienated the fans and called it the Silver timeline. Pulling a JJ Abrams move. For me, I think I'm done with the Show. I was eager for Season 1, until I finished it. Tried to give Season 2 a chance, because they teased the fans again with memberberries. And then you had me thinking, ah they are going back to lore. But it turned out Master Chief loses his suit, only to get it back again and kill the Arbitor!??!?! Halsey is imprisoned again and infected with Flood. And for some reason Kwan holds the power to the Flood. Where did the Pillar of Autumn disappear off to. Did they just kill off Keyes refuelling a ship, instead of being part of humanities momentous discovery of the Halo?!?!?!
30:00 Totally disagree. What Forward Until Dawn got right was they built it up and then thrust us into the action. That's when we get Master Chief. He doesn't have his helmet off, because we are in the midst of a war! Chief in the game seemed vulnerable without his helmet, he is flawed, but he is stoic and presses forward still. This is character. Plus it was great tongue in cheek nod to the fans when they were on the Pelican.
This show padded us with a a lot of uninteresting plotlines. This should have started off with fleet battles, less useless side drama talk (I don't want to know about Kwan), actual battle tactics, actual sacrifice. It had to feel like hurt and count for something.
This is supposed to feel like humanity of the cusp of defeat and fighting for survival. Reach was a major disappointment. That took only 1-2 episodes and then it was over. It was one of the largest Earth-Convenant engagements of the war. Involving hundreds of ships on both sides. It was supposed to be a fortress. The last bastion of Earth in that sector before Earth. But somehow they completely mis-interpreted it. And you had ONI taking the suits that only the Spartans could use!!?!!?!?
But instead we had to deal with so many plotholes, stupidity. FUD had a fraction of the budget this show had and they did it right by the fans. Just wish it was longer.
Not going to bother with this anymore, I've listened to your streams. But you seem to err on the wrong side of history and defend this show like it was great show. It was not. Yes, it got a few things right. I like the production. Some of the acting was good. But everything else was terrible. What a sad waste of money. It deserved better.
Forward Unto Dawn is definitely on my list to see, but from what I understand, Chief is a secondary protagonist with Thomas Lasky in the lead. If Chief isn't your protagonist, then not showing his face works for the same reason it works in the game. To have that carry through an entire series? Well, I feel like you'd have to make the same compromise and have the show be about someone else with Chief as a secondary character.
The other problem with using stuff like FUD as a point of comparison is that there's hardly an audience for something like that outside the fan base. If your argument is that the Halo series should have been made for fans who already know the lore and just want to immerse themselves in it, then that's one thing. Paramount wanted a show that would reach a larger audience, however; one that includes those who have never heard of Halo. To that end, I think Kwan was an excellent choice for the first episode, which did in fact start with action and sacrifice, as her character allows the audience to more easily settle into this sci-fi world.
The issues with Reach I can understand given the significance of the event in the lore, but I give them a break due to the budget realities of the show. It already has a pretty hefty budget, so imagine what it would be if they had to include more space battles and hundreds of ships. Photo-realistic ones on top of that, as the more stylized look in the games would clash with the live action actors; making them even more expensive to produce. I'm also unsure of how much more story you'd be able to get out of extending the Reach battle since all of our main characters had their significant moments already, but perhaps if they had pushed it back another season and introduced more characters to then have their own moments of sacrifice/heroism in the battle. If we did that, however, we run back into the issue of everyone waiting to get to the ring, and would another season without us getting there have made fans happy?
@@ReviewersUnite They sort of built up to the Chief/Spartans with the recruits eying some leaked footage. It was a great build up. It showed none of the humans, including the ODST's could take on the Covenant . It showed humanity putting aside their differences and uniting again a relentless foe. It was futile until Chief appeared. That worked. That also stayed true to the lore.
The Chief we got in the Silver timeline in the show was a mess. The guy hated Halsey, he fought against Cortana, he was hesitating all the time. He made mistakes.
They fell for the same mistake that Star Wars and every other torchbearer for every other major IP did. They alienated the fanbase to pursue a wider audience. It turned out the fanbase which have kept the franchises alive for so long, were also the gateways for their children, friends and grandchildren into the franchise. It may have brought a few people into the franchise, but they lost a lot more. The original games had over
They replaced a strong, well thought out storyline with a weaker, flawed storyline.
If they didn't have the budget for Reach, they shouldn't have done it in the first place. But they had no excuse not to do it properly in Season 2. I could have agreed with you on the budget. But it seemed that they wasted money on the set of Madrigal. They wasted money on so many set pieces we never saw again from Season 1. We didn't need to see High Charity at this point. We did not need to see a fleshed out city of Madrigal or some internal politics. What happened to the bad guy in Madrigal??!?!? We did not need a fleshed out pirate city. We did not need to goto John's Homeworld so he could have another mental breakdown.
The sacrifices made in this were pale comparison to that in the lore. Why? Because the way they were conceived was stupid.
What was with that ONI guy stealing their suits on Reach?!?!? Only for the Spartans to fail and die and require Kwan to magically appear to rescue the survivors. Where was the fleet?!?!? Only for it to appear at Onyx. What is the fleet even doing there!!?!?! They showed those scenes they blew their budget there. They just lost their homebase, now they are fighting around some planet which doesn't even have MAC platforms evening out the odds. You got these Spartan III's who nobody remembers. So why should I care that they die. I cared more for Noble Team, instead of dozens of nobodies' who frankly were just cannon fodder.
Books were written about Reach. A game was made about Reach. A movie covered only one aspect of Reach. They had enough material there to cover an entire Season. Instead we get no Noble Team, a Halsey that's in jail rather than saving the human race with her research. New fans probably don't even realise the significance of Reach, because even the Showrunners don't even know the significance of Reach.
A wasted opportunity. The production was excellent, but mis-directed. Well, at least they realised they alienated the fans and called it the Silver timeline. Pulling a JJ Abrams move.
For me, I think I'm done with the Show. I was eager for Season 1, until I finished it. Tried to give Season 2 a chance, because they teased the fans again with memberberries. And then you had me thinking, ah they are going back to lore. But it turned out Master Chief loses his suit, only to get it back again and kill the Arbitor!??!?! Halsey is imprisoned again and infected with Flood. And for some reason Kwan holds the power to the Flood. Where did the Pillar of Autumn disappear off to. Did they just kill off Keyes refuelling a ship, instead of being part of humanities momentous discovery of the Halo?!?!?!